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aml-list-digest       Friday, November 10 2000       Volume 01 : Number 191




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:06:46 -0700
From: Steve <skperry@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [AML] AML Writers' Conference

>>> Shauna Nelson (Covenant) described several current books from
>>> Covenant and summarized that she's looking for "real things
>>> [problems] that speak to real people."
> 
Steve Perry:
>> Maybe it's the election jargon clogging my brain, but if I hear
>> about one more plan or book or anything that "speaks to real
>> people" I might hurt myself.
>> 
>> Is there any other kind of person?
> 
Scott Bronson:
>In contemporary Mormon fiction?  Plenty.

Oh, we're talking characters.  I thought they meant the readers.

;-)

Steve





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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:04:23 -0700
From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" <ersamuel@byugate.byu.edu>
Subject: Re: [AML] "Mormon" in WILSON, _A Massive Swelling_

<I hate to appear ignorant, but who is Cintra Wilson? And does a
<dictionary or at least a vocabulary cheat sheet come with this >rant? =20


Cintra Wilson is . . . well, she's the woman who wrote this book.  She's a =
columnist for Salon Magazine, and for, I gather, a San Francisco newspaper =
(The Examiner?).  She's a very fine playwright--I've seen two of her =
plays, and they're very funny, in a scorched earth kind of way.  And no, =
no cheat sheets.  You're either as immersed in pop culture as she is, or =
you're not, if not, you won't get a lot of her allusions. =20

She's a very funny, very savage kind of satirical writer.  I admire her =
work immensely, while disagreeing with a lot of it, as my post suggests.

Eric Samuelsen






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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:10:37 -0700
From: Steve <skperry@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [AML] AML Writers' Conference

on 11/9/00 12:38 AM, D. Michael Martindale at dmichael@wwno.com wrote:

> These people never have problems like a daughter who has
> completely succumbed to the slavery of meth addiction (a member of my
> elder's quorum presidency), or whose son committed suicide (a family in
> my ward growing up), or who realizes he made a monumental blunder in
> choosing his spouse because the climate at BYU pressured him into
> marrying someone (more than one person I know), or who came home from
> his mission only to discover that his parents were on the verge of
> divorce and he never had a clue (me). Until recently, how much LDS
> literature spoke to these people?
> 
> I think LDS literature speaking to "real people" is a legitimate goal to
> pursue.


Again, I agree with the need for real characters--some of every ilk of
realness.  But I am referring to the second half of the "real characters
that speak to real people" cliche.

Even the people who hide their pain are real.  Even the people who have very
little pain are real.  As are those who suffer immensely.

Steve


_ _ _ _ _
skperry@mac.com





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------------------------------

Date: Thu,  9 Nov 2000 15:16:42 -0200
From: "renatorigo"<renatorigo@bol.com.br>
Subject: Re: [AML] AML Writers' Conference

> Real books about real things are the real essence of 
writing....The real objective of a book should be to make 
people to look at yourselves and discover hiden things 
about them... These dicovery experiences will make people 
growing up.... 
There are some fiction books that are able to show the 
truth in the same way that the not-fiction ones do...but 
there are others that shows nothing...says nothing
This is the difference between good and bad fiction 
books...

Renato Rigo
renatorigo@ig.com.br


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------------------------------

Date: Thu,  9 Nov 2000 15:18:42 -0200
From: "renatorigo"<renatorigo@bol.com.br>
Subject: Re: [AML] "Mormon" in WILSON, _A Massive Swelling_

> Oh Debbie
I thought I was the only one who didn=B4t know Cintra 
Wilson... 

Renato
renatorigo@ig.com.br


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------------------------------

Date: (No, or invalid, date.)
From: "Marilyn & William Brown" <wwbrown@burgoyne.com>
Subject: Re: [AML] AML Writers' Conference

Hi Steve? I think that what Shauna is saying is that it's "unreal" for =
people to read about others who are too good, or too romantic. The person=
 reading may be a "real person" but they might not be facing some of that=
 reality in themselves. They may be looking for frosting, or they may hav=
e a rainbow approach to life that prevents them from seeing the good in =
the bad people or the bad in the good people (which is what "real is to =
me, anyway).

I always like characters who  look like me--have some of the good and som=
e of the bad. If ever there was an "unreal" person in life, it was starry=
- -eyed Mormon me 40 years ago. I think that's what Shauna means. There is =
some "pulp" fiction (Dutcher calls it) in our culture that asks for thing=
s to turn out romantically correct, and doesn't present the stake preside=
nt as having his grouchy moments (that's one thing I'll say positive for =
Dean Hughes). Marilyn Brown



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:48:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Ed Snow <edgarsnow@yahoo.com>
Subject: [AML] Topics for Satire=20

Neal Kramer observed:

<<I wonder if Eric would be so kind as to offer a list
of things that a sophisticated ironist, or even facile
mocker, would consider serious or sacred enough not to
mock?>>

I'm not sure what I am, but I've got a list of things
I consider untouchable. It's from my "10 Commandments
of Mormon Humor," excerpted below:

<<Commandment No. 6. Thou shalt be slightly
irreverent, no more, no less.

<<Deity should be off limits in Mormon humor. For
example, roadshows involving God as a supporting
character, cartoons in Sunstone depicting Jesus (as
noted by Elbert Peck himself), and limericks about the
Holy Ghost are very, very, very risky. They are risky
not just because they are rarely funny; they also
offend. First, they frequently offend the Mormon
people. Take George Burns, for instance, portraying
God in the movie "Oh God." Mormons didn't warm up to
this show since God had a Word of Wisdom problem, he
was short, and he dressed in degrading 70s attire.
Second, making jokes about Deity might also offend the
Mormon General Authorities, which is important not to
do if you want to keep the first commandment of Mormon
humor [ie, remain Mormon]. Finally, jokes about Deity
might offend, well =85 Deity.=20

<<Now, in speaking about Deity, be forewarned that in
some circles in southern Utah, there is some risk in
telling jokes about Adam, but we don't have time to
explore that today.

<<Temple ordinances should also be off limits, perhaps
with a couple of limited exceptions. For instance, the
general topic of work for the dead seems okay. Orson
Scott Card, to my knowledge, has never gotten into
trouble for suggesting that work for the dead is an
important Latter-day work performed by Mormons,
especially by those who are nearly dead themselves.=20

<<Jokes about "GAs" may be made in only the following
limited circumstances: (i) the joke about the GA was
previously told by that GA on himself, or (ii) one GA
told the joke about another GA, and the GA that told
the joke is still a GA, or the GA who was the subject
of the joke is deceased.=20

<<In general, though, examples of humor expressed by
GAs themselves should be repeated as often as
possible, to be followed by admonishing your audience
to "Follow the Brethren."

Having said all that, even though I consider God off
limits in my satire--I don't satirize God--I might
satirize people's views of God, a difficult stunt to
perform without injury.=20

Neal, I'm glad you asked this question. Based upon
your contributions in the recent Mormon Literature
Dialogue (from which I learned a lot--thanks for
putting that together), I got the impression you have
a general opinion that humor, wit and satire are not
the highest and best uses of literature in any event.
And I'd say you're right. But I think, perhaps, your
opinion may have influenced your question to Eric.

In defense of humor, wit and satire as at least
important uses of literature, consider Joseph Smith's
"hunter & his bow" story he told to defend himself
against complaints that he goofed around too much: the
hunter's bow that's never unstrung will lose its
spring.

In the circus of literature, satire, wit and humor are
the humorist's tightrope act. The set of limitations
humorists must set for themselves is the net.=20

Ed Snow

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Among best sellers, Barnes & Noble ranks _Of Curious Workmanship: Musings on=
 Things Mormon_ in its top 100 (thousand, that is). Available now at 10% off=
 http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=3D5SLFMY1T=
YD&mscssid=3DHJW5QQU1SUS12HE1001PQJ9XJ7F17G3C&srefer=3D&isbn=3D1560851368

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------------------------------

Date: (No, or invalid, date.)
From: "Marilyn & William Brown" <wwbrown@burgoyne.com>
Subject: [AML] Real Life (was: AML Writers' Conference)

[MOD: Apologies for not coming up with this thread renaming earlier. A bit 
asleep at the wheel this morning...]

This is a great post (and I know I've already responded to it once). I =
was reading Dean Hughes's WHEN WE MEET AGAIN and came across a scene in =
which the girls were getting ready to take the telegram to their dad at =
the plant. It was so suspenseful and fun I had to stop and remark: "Yeah,=
 this is it! Plain people doing something exciting to them." Of course =
the telegram was going to tell the parents that their son who had gone =
on the Bataann death march was still alive (which they didn't know). I =
know, that's big stuff. But I really got into it while those "real people=
" were putting on lipstick and grinding the tires to go. It did get a lit=
tle belabored (I would have cut it shorter) but I did say to myself--"It'=
s HOW it's written. Plain life (Eudora Welty? Willa Cather?) can be excit=
ing!  Marilyn Brown



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:41:41 -0700
From: "Richard R. Hopkins" <rrhopkins@horizonpublishers.com>
Subject: [AML] Re: Real Life (was: AML Writers' Conference)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: D. Michael Martindale <dmichael@wwno.com>
To: <aml-list@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: [AML] AML Writers' Conference

D. Michael wrote:

> [S]ome books seem to act as if there are other kinds. You know,
> the kind of people who hold family home evening without fail every
> Monday night, do their home and visiting teaching the first week of
> every month, attend the temple every month (preferably at 6:00 am), have
> family prayer consistently twice a day and read scriptures daily with
> the whole family there, and always fast the full 24 hours every fast
> Sunday without one person getting a headache. All their kids get
> straight A's and scholarships to BYU, go on missions (preferably
> foreign), get married in the temple, don't kiss until they are kneeling
> at the altar, always dress modestly, never ask to date before age 16,
> never want to see R-rated movies, and are never even the slightest bit
> curious about smoking or alcohol or pornography or sex. Their bishops
> and stake presidents always give them the correct advice. They always
> learn to love the brats in their Sunday school class. They always say
> the right thing to turn the person sitting next to them in the airplane
> into a golden contact.
>
> These are the kind of people who never have any problems more serious
> than having to smooth over an unintentional social gaffe with the relief
> society president, or forcing themselves to visit a nursing home for a
> service project (and of course, coming to love the experience), or
> praying whether the girl they love should really be their eternal
> companion.

> I think LDS literature speaking to "real people" is a legitimate goal to
> pursue.

The heck of it is there ARE people like that in the Church, and the worst of
it is some of them don't even judge other people (like me) who don't do all
the right things! I hate those kind the most. :-)

Richard Hopkins





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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 13:38:00 -0700 (MST)
From: Neal William Kramer <nwk@email.byu.edu>
Subject: Re: [AML] Topics for Satire (was: AML Writer's Conference)

Thanks to Eric for a reasonable response.

Neal Kramer





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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:03:53 -0700
From: Scott and Marny Parkin <sparkin@airswitch.net>
Subject: [AML] New BYU Studies Web Site

Visit the new BYU Studies web site at http://byustudies.byu.edu/

The web site now allows for ordering both available journal back
issues and article reprints. You can also download electronic copies of
articles, easily categorized by author, title, and topic. Books and
subscriptions to BYU Studies are also available for order. To become an
even more convenient resource, the site will soon have a search
function. The site also provides submission guidelines, information on
essay and poetry contests, and an index of titles, authors, an topics
from volumes 1 through 36 to be updated within a couple of months.

The site features a different discounted book and article each month.
Currently the featured book is "The Book of Mormon Paintings of Minerva
Teichert" and the featured article is "The Good Samaritan: A Type and
Shadow of the Plan of Salvation."  Soon the site will feature two other
of BYU Studies's finest.

Marny Parkin




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 13:39:07 -0700
From: "Annette Lyon" <annette@lyfe.com>
Subject: [AML] VAN WAGONER Interview in Irreantum

The interview with Robert Van Wagner in the latest Irreantum struck a nerve
with me for a few reasons, and reminded me of some recent discussion on the
list. For one thing, I did not know that _Dancing Naked_ (which I have not
read) was written with a national audience in mind, not a Mormon audience.
Now, considering what its audience is, and the content (the portrayal of
negative authority and homophobia regarding Mormons), I can't help but
wonder that no one has a problem with it.

A few months ago, I recall a lively debate over whether the play _Bash_ (was
that the title?) should have been written with the national audience in mind
when it portayed Mormons so badly (homophobia, the same issue). That if it
was written for us, as a wakeup call, that would be one thing, but to
portray us to the masses, a group that may stereotype us, was something else
entirely. But no one has said a word about that regarding _Dancing Naked_.
Is that because we all assumed it was written for us? Well, it wasn't. Does
that change how we view it?

Secondly, I felt thrown back to the Where is our Amy Tan? discussion reading
Van Wagner's opinion about our national literary future. He insists that he
is a better writer for having abandoned his faith (basically seeing both
sides of the fence). Also, that when a Mormon writer reaches the high
acclaim, it will be because they have faced what he called the "human
experience" rather than the "Mormon experience." He also described the kinds
of issues that writer might discuss: abortion as salvation, etc. That that
writer will have to write about "dangerous" things (I can only imagine he
means things that might compromise the writer's standing in the Church). I
have a serious bone to pick with that. As a Mormon, I believe that if you
take away the culture of being Mormon out of the equation, what you are left
with is truth, or the essence of the human experience. But to do as Van
Wagner suggests, we as Mormon writers would have to abandon our faith as so
much "experience" and move on. Is that what it will take to have our own
O'Conner? If so, I don't think it's worth aspiring to.

Annette Lyon




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Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:49:06 EST
From: Larry Jackson <lajackson@juno.com>
Subject: [AML] MN Wondrous Talent, Wondrous Debut, Wondrous Love: Deseret  Book Press Release

From: Deseret Book Press Release <dbpr@MormonsToday.com>
To: Mormon News <mormon-news@MormonsToday.com>
Subject: MN Wondrous Talent, Wondrous Debut, Wondrous Love: Deseret Book
Press Release 7Nov00 A2
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 21:00:00 -0500

[From Mormon-News]

Wondrous Talent, Wondrous Debut, Wondrous Love

SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- "George Dyer is perhaps the music world's 
best-kept secret," asserts noted composer Les de Azevedo. That's 
about to change with the release of Dyer's debut solo album Wondrous 
Love (Shadow Mountain, $13.99 limited-time introductory priced CD, 
$13.98 cassette), proof positive of the passion and vocalism that has 
propelled Dyer into the ranks of our nation's finest tenors.

"Wondrous Love" features 12 classic and original sacred melodies and 
hymns that will appeal and inspire all listeners. In addition to 
Dyer's remarkable talent, the songs on the album, which include "All 
Creatures of Our God and King," "Lead Kindly Light," and "I Walked 
Today Where Jesus Walked" were also treated to fresh new arrangements 
from award-winning composers Kurt Bestor and Merrill Jenson, among 
others. "Very seldom  have I been as moved by a singer as I was when 
George made the notes [of my arrangements] come alive," says Bestor, 
who arranged three songs on the album.

Fans will have ample opportunity to hear Dyer perform live within the 
coming months. The 2000 - 2001 season finds him onstage with the Ohio 
Opera in Columbus, with Tennessee's Chattanooga Opera, and in 
Jerusalem performing the role of Jesus Christ in the world premiere 
of Lex de Azevedo's HOSANNA.

This December, Dyer will reprise his role as the Angel Gabriel in 
both California and Utah performances of Azevedo's Gloria. Gloria 
will also be broadcast by Detroit Public Television on November 28th, 
in the video recording that features George as Gabriel.

George Dyer has been a national finalist in the San Francisco Opera's 
Merola Program, a district finalist in the Metropolitan Opera 
auditions, and has performed with the New York City Opera on several 
occaisons. A native of Virginia, Dyer presently resides in Utah with 
his wife and children.

###


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Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:28:59 EST
From: Larry Jackson <lajackson@juno.com>
Subject: [AML] Real People

D. Michael Martindale:

Steve wrote:

> Maybe it's the election jargon clogging my brain, but 
> if I hear about one more plan or book or anything that 
> "speaks to real people" I might hurt myself.
> 
> Is there any other kind of person?

No, but some books seem to act as if there are other 
kinds. You know, the kind of people who hold family 
home evening without fail every Monday night, do their 
home and visiting teaching the first week of every month, 
attend the temple every month (preferably at 6:00 am), ... 

_______________

These would belong in the fiction department, wouldn't 
they?  :->

I think it would be fun to run into a character who did only 
one of these things really well, and then was wickedly 
down to earth in most other ways.  Built in conflict.

Larry Jackson
<lajackson@juno.com>


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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 21:33:12 -0700
From: "Scott Tarbet" <starbet@timp.net>
Subject: RE: [AML] Topics for Satire (was: AML Writer's Conference)

Temple humor?  Got one!

A bunch of us are sitting in the sealer's office in the Jordan Temple
waiting to sign papers as witnesses and Paul Dunn (pre-meteoric-plunge,
there to perform a sealing) comes in.  Everybody in the room stands
respectfully.  He shakes a couple of hands, then notices a pair of (at
least) size 16 wing tips under the sealer's table.  "McConkie's here!" he
yells.  "Got some sticky notes??"  The flustered sealer digs some out.  "Got
a pen??"

"Bruce:  this is your left shoe."
"Bruce:  this is your right shoe."

- -- Scott Tarbet


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Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:28:59 EST
From: Larry Jackson <lajackson@juno.com>
Subject: [AML] MN Work of LDS Composer Boren and Librettist Nelson on Temple  Square: Glen Nelson

From: Glen Nelson <gnelson@MormonsToday.com>
To: Mormon News <mormon-news@MormonsToday.com>
Subject: MN Work of LDS Composer Boren and Librettist Nelson on Temple
Square: Glen Nelson 6Nov00 A2
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 21:00:00 -0500

[From Mormon-News]

Work of LDS Composer Boren and Librettist Nelson on Temple Square

SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- 
On Saturday, November 11 at 7:30, the Temple 
Square Assembly Hall will feature new orchestral/vocal works by 
Murray Boren and Glen Nelson as part of its recital series of LDS 
music and musicians. Composer-in-residence at Brigham Young 
University, Murray Boren, has composed an evening of new religious 
music to texts by New York author Glen Nelson, to be performed by 
soprano Susan Boren.

Boren's music has been played and recorded internationally. Most 
recently, his Symphony No. 2 was premiered at the Moscow Conservatory 
in Russia. For the Assembly Hall concert (the same program will be 
played at BYU on November 7) Boren and Nelson have created three 
specifically-LDS concert works. The main work is a symphony-length 
composition called ’"Seven Sisters" about modern LDS women. In 
another large work, "After Words," Nelson quotes three biblical 
stories and then imagines what happens after the scriptural story 
ends. All of the works on the program are written for soprano and 
symphony orchestra, conducted by Boren.

Nelson says, "If you think about it, there's almost no serious 
concert music that is specifically LDS. I've heard a lot of sacred 
music that is sacrament meeting-friendly, and some wonderful music 
written for our most accomplished choirs, but if you're looking for 
the kind of music that aspires to be great in the sense of 
Mozart-great or Stravinsky great, outside of choral music, the pool 
isn't very deep, yet."


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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 00:41:21 -0700
From: "D. Michael Martindale" <dmichael@wwno.com>
Subject: [AML] Writers' Conference Feedback

[MOD: I'd like to add that anyone who didn't attend the conference but might 
be interested in attending future ones should perhaps provide input also to 
let us know what would make you more or less interested in attending.]

To those who attended the writers conference, thank you. We'd like to
know what you thought of it so we can put on a better one next time. If
you would respond to the following 15 questions, it would be very
helpful:

1. Was the conference worth attending? Why?

2. What would you change to make it more valuable to you?

3. Was the admittance fee fair, or do you think it should be different?

4. Do you prefer having a catered lunch, or would you rather fend for
yourself? Was the lunch priced fairly?

5. Which sessions were most valuable to you?

6. How could any sessions you attended have been improved?

7. What are your feelings about using UVSC as the location? Were the
facilities acceptable? Where would you prefer the conference be held?

8. Do you like the time of year the conference is held (November), or
would you prefer another?

9. Was the length of the conference about right, or would you prefer a
longer conference (evening sessions, more than one day)?

10. How did you like the guests of honor: Margaret Young, Darius Gray,
Dean Hughes?

11. Did you attend any of the performance sessions (BYU student films,
"I Am Jane" performance, literature readings)? Did you enjoy them? Would
you like to see other types of performance sessions?

12. If you were to design the schedule for next year, what are some
sessions you would want to include?

13. What guests would you like to see?

14. What made you decide to attend the conference this year?

15. Any other comments?

- -- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com 

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Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 00:06:05 -0700
From: "D. Michael Martindale" <dmichael@wwno.com>
Subject: Re: [AML] MN Mormons Oppose "Godspell"

[MOD: I'm letting this one through, but I'd like to encourage everyone to 
move past the what-I-meant/what-you-meant part of the exchange to consider 
the broader questions: e.g., what types of works are appropriate for school 
performances, and how parents' concerns ought to be addressed in 
circumstances like this.] 

David Hansen wrote:

> "D. Michael Martindale" wrote:

> > But as far as I can tell, the people who objected to Godspell
> > didn't even bother to consider whether reasonable people held a
> > different opinion from them--they assumed what they thought is what
> > everybody should think. That's intolerable.
> 
> I can't believe that you really mean this.

Oh yes, I did mean it. But I don't think you understood what I meant...


> Because someone is
> "reasonable" (whatever "reasonable" is) on the other side, am I required to keep
> quiet?

Who said anything about keeping quiet? It seems to me that the parents
who objected to Godspell and insisted it not be performed are the ones
trying to keep others quiet--not me. Let those parents express their
concern. But let them hear mine as well. I don't get the sense they
bothered listening back, or even bothered to find out if there were
other opinions to listen to.


> My point is that there ARE moral absolutes

Yes, there are absolutes. "Godspell is offensive" is not one of them.
Yet from the information available in the news reports (an important
qualifier), I get the sense that the student who uttered "Godspell is
offensive" _does_ consider that an obvious absolute.


> But, if you really
> believe that it is "intolerable" for these parents to object to something they find
> morally objectionable, then I'll have to disagree.

I didn't say that. The intolerable behavior is that these parents didn't
seem to even consider that others might think differently from them and
have as much right to influence the issue as they do. In my opinion,
you're accusing me of wanting to do what they actually did.

- -- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com 

==================================
Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at
http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths 

Sponsored by Worlds Without Number
http://www.wwno.com 
==================================




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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:50:40 -0600
From: Jonathan Langford <jlangfor@pressenter.com>
Subject: [AML] Essay Location Query

Folks,

I received a question about where an essay I mentioned in an earlier post,
"What the Church Means to People Like Me"--I believe by Richard Poll, but
my memory may be deceiving me again--can be located. I know it was
published originally in _Dialogue_ years ago, but I can't find a reference.
I also believe I've seen a link to it on the Internet, but I can't find
that now, either. Can anyone help with either of these sources--and confirm
or revise my author attribution?

Jonathan Langford
Asking questions for myself, not the List...

jlangfor@pressenter.com






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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 21:24:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Ruth Starkman <rstark@cinemaspace.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [AML] VAN WAGONER, _Dancing Naked_ (was: Introduction: Ruth Starkman)

On Wed, 8 Nov 2000 cgileadi@emerytelcom.net wrote:

> Was it you, Ruth, who felt that _Dancing Naked_ was problematic in some ways?  
> Did it "ring true" for you?
> 
> Cathy
> 

I found _Dancing Naked_ interesting and very moving in parts. My problem
with it is aesthetic: Van Wagoner crowds his reader. If his protagonist is
encountering some formative moment that makes him feel insignificant (for
example, the scene where the father steps out naked into the hallway and
the young Terry sees him), the writing has to say "Terry felt
insignificant." This is unfortunate, because the writing in this passage
and elsewhere is otherwise often good. It's as though Van Wagoner is so
bent on making his point that he refuses to risk any subtlety.

The novel's use of Freud also struck me at points as somewhat
heavy-handed. Perhaps more interesting to me was how these thematics
suggest the novel's own struggle with Mormon culture, as though the later
were an overpowering father.  This is what "rings true" to me.

Public reception of the novel also "rings true" to me, i.e. gives insight
into Mormon culture, in some cases, more so than the novel itself.


- --Ruth Starkman









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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:51:58 -0700
From: "Morgan Adair" <MADAIR@novell.com>
Subject: Re: [AML] Essay Location Query

>>> jlangfor@pressenter.com 11/10/00 09:50AM >>>
>
>I received a question about where an essay I mentioned in an earlier =
post,
>"What the Church Means to People Like Me"--I believe by Richard Poll, but
>my memory may be deceiving me again--can be located. I know it was
>published originally in _Dialogue_ years ago, but I can't find a =
reference.
>I also believe I've seen a link to it on the Internet, but I can't find
>that now, either. Can anyone help with either of these sources--and =
confirm
>or revise my author attribution?

Yes, it was by Richard Poll. The talk is on the web at:

http://home.att.net/~jredelfs/people.html

It was originally published in the Winter '67 issue of Dialogue, and =
republished=20
in Sunstone July-August 1980.

MBA






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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 12:10:41 -0500
From: "Debra L. Brown" <debbro@voyager.net>
Subject: Re: [AML] Real People

I don't have time to write my autobiography right now!!!!!!!!
Debbie Brown

 
 
> I think it would be fun to run into a character who did only 
> one of these things really well, and then was wickedly 
> down to earth in most other ways.  Built in conflict.
> 
> Larry Jackson
 





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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:21:29 -0700
From: "Christopher Bigelow" <ChrisB@enrich.com>
Subject: [AML] Movie about Philo T. Farnsworth

I noticed an item in the Nov. 1 _Daily Variety_ that Miramax has optioned =
two forthcoming books on the Mormon inventor of television, Philo T. =
Farnsworth.

Yo, Eric Samuelsen, maybe you ought to send in your play _Love Affair with =
Electrons_ and see if they want to option that too, if you haven't =
already. If you don't have easy access to DV, I can fax you the article =
with all the agent and veep names, etc.

Also, did y'all see the item about _Let the Games Begin_, the TV movie =
about the Salt Lake Olympic scandal to be aired just before the games =
begin? It's sure to have some Mormon references.

[Chris Bigelow]

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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:31:15 -0800
From: Rob Pannoni <pannoni@rapport-sys.com>
Subject: Re: [AML] MN Mormons Oppose "Godspell"

There is an interesting irony to this whole discussion.  It revolves
around what it means to "promote religion."  The defense of Godspell has
mostly been that it isn't negative toward Christianity, but really
should be considered faith promoting and therefore okay to perform. 
Constitutionally, the fact that it is faith promoting is exactly the
problem.  

I doubt anyone watching Fiddler on the Roof would come away with a
strong desire to convert to Judaism.  But I think you could reasonably
construe Godspell to be intentionally promoting Christianity (although
you could argue about its effectiveness).  I don't find the musical
offensive, but I question whether it is appropriate material for an
officially-sponsored school production.  I like the compromise
solution--to let the kids perform the musical in a non-school-sanctioned
way.

I also have to say that while I despise censorship, I celebrate when
citizens speak their views.  Right or wrong, the parents who objected to
Godspell had every right to express their opinion and try to influence
school policy.  As long as they are not attempting to use legal means to
restrict free speech, I don't see a problem.  Anyone who wanted to see
Godspell performed could simply take matters into their own hands and
put on a private production.  

- -- Rob Pannoni

   Rapport Systems
   http://www.rapport-sys.com




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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:42:25 -0700
From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" <ersamuel@byugate.byu.edu>
Subject: Re: [AML] VAN WAGONER Interview in Irreantum

I've read Dancing Naked, I've met Robert Van Wagoner, and I've now read =
Irreantum's review.  My response:

It's an awfully good novel.  I don't know, and don't care, who he thinks =
the audience is, LDS or not.  I'm LDS and I read it and I think it's darn =
good.  I cared about the characters, I wanted to know what happened to =
them.  I think he got the details of their lives, as LDS people, right. =
=20

He says he's a better writer for having abandoned his faith.  I doubt it.  =
But he does make a valuable point.

I don't know if this is true for everyone, but for me, I could not =
progress as a writer until I abandoned the culture, and that process was =
very difficult.  I was raised a pretty conventional Mormon, and in many =
many ways, my upbringing was valuable and good.  I'm handicapped, as a =
writer, by not having a hideous childhood or horrifically dysfunctional =
family to draw from; and of course, I'm glad for it. =20

But there are so many attitudes and misperceptions of the world in =
Mormonism, in the culture, that I had to set aside in order for me to =
write well.  I don't want to inappropriately disparage books by General =
Authorities, but there were books that I thought defined Mormon theology, =
that I had to consciously examine critically, and which I have now decided =
to abandon.  I'm not sure I can say this more clearly without transgressing=
 the AML-list guidelines.  Maybe I can say this much: there was once a =
time when I believed that we lived in the wickedest time in the history of =
the world, that this current generation was particularly sent to the earth =
today to combat rampant evil, that the entertainment industry was the =
locus of that evil, and that we were far better off if we avoided, as much =
as we could, pop culture.  And today, I no longer believe any of those =
things.  I don't think the world is wickeder today than ever before.  I =
think a lot of current pop culture is pretty valuable.  And so on. =20

Abandoning certain beliefs and ideas wasn't easy for me, or, I suspect, =
for most of us.  It was painful to realize that books I once cherished =
were now, essentially, purveying what I have come to regard as false or =
misleading doctrines.  But my writing was stifled.  I couldn't honestly =
see the world, or create characters that weren't stilted and fundamentally =
dishonest.  I was seeing the world with blinders, I think, and that hurts =
good writing. =20

This may not be, probably isn't, true for all of us.  But for me, it is =
true; I had to abandon much of LDS culture in order to improve as  a =
writer.  And yet, I still consider myself an active, temple recommend =
holding member of the Church.  My spiritual home is in Mormonism, and =
always will be.  And I still plan to drink diet Coke, play Hearts with =
face cards, watch R-rated movies, listen to the hardest rock and roll my =
aging ear drums can withstand, defend violence, profanity and sexuality in =
movies, and believe that God created life on this planet through a process =
of evolution, over a period of billions of years.  And repent from my sins =
in fear and trembling before the Lord.

Eric Samuelsen





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End of aml-list-digest V1 #191
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