From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #200 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Monday, November 20 2000 Volume 01 : Number 200 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: (No, or invalid, date.) From: "Marilyn & William Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Addressing Race in Mormon Lit. Where do you live, Alfie? Give us your background a bit? Marilyn Brown - ---------- > Hi everyone, > > the novel I'm working on entitled "Jane > Air-literation" deals with a black and white > interracial LDS marriage and the controversy at > Columbine. Not bad for an explosive topic? > > Alfie Wang > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! > http://calendar.yahoo.com/ > > > > > - > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm > - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:32:51 -0600 From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_ At 11:49 AM 11/16/00, you wrote: >Linda, I just cracked open your _Prodigal Journey_ last night, actually. >So far I find it more ambitious plotwise and storywise than Dean Hughes's >first Children of the Promise volume, which I'm also currently reading, >although a lot of your gearworks are sort of open to view rather than >feeling organic (I'm speaking mainly of all the preliminary, ancillary >material before we hit the actual narrative). So far I'm also finding >yours at about the same level as Hughes's (with occasional blips downward) >in line-by-line style, originality, and believability. I'm finding both >books mostly adequate and sometimes even fleetingly engaging and >compelling, but for me they don't yet reach the mesmerization (if that's >not a word, it should be) of the top-tier national stuff because they >revert to paint-by-numbers a little too often. I'm looking forward to your review, Chris, because I know you'll be more critical than many readers I've heard from. I mean that in a good way--I know you can/will pick it apart and I've been needing someone to do that. Glad to know you've got it! >But yeah, I meant yours as one of the exceptions to my blanket "cheese" >statement, although the cover leans toward positioning it with the more >cheesy romantic stuff, which in turn seems mostly to hearken back to the >Weyland pretty-girl covers. Rats! I liked the cover and hate Weyland's. I can say that my original idea for the cover was to have it look more like a science fiction paperback, with an artist's rendition of a scene or characters in the book. But when Cornerstone showed me this concept, I really liked it just as well as my idea. In some ways may be good that the cover might draw the cheesy-romantic readership, since honestly it's not that at all but it will draw them in once they've started reading. This cover simply might sell better than a "sci-fi" cover would, in its current market. (We hope to market it in regular trade outlets eventually, as well.) >If I had to predict the next category that would make it big within >orthodox Mormon publishing (besides historical and romance), I would say >speculative fiction like yours, so may you be on the early swell of an >upcoming wave and become the Lund of speculative Mormon fiction. Thanks! This is my hope. I have my fingers crossed. From the time I was a teenager (reading Weyland and finding it rather lacking for my taste) I've wanted to make changes in LDS fiction for the better. That's my goal. Well, one of them. One of my other daydreams is to succeed OSC, but well . . . that's quite a long way off yet, if I can do it at all. :-) One can always try. Linda Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com Writing Page: http://members.xoom.com/adamszoo Little Ones Lost: http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo My new book, _Prodigal Journey,_ is now available online! Go to: http://deseretbook.com/products/4066899/index.html - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 15:55:58 -0700 From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: Re: [AML] Anti-Intellectualism Intellectualism is a real problem for Mormons, because so often it starts = resembling humanism, which looks like it's antithetical to the gospel. Recently I received a subscription offer from Free Inquiry, a magazine = published by the Council for Secular Humanism that "answers only to men = and women who want to think for themselves instead of being bamboozled by = appeals to tradition, authority, or blind faith." As I have reviewed this = magazine's promotional materials, I find myself comparing it to Mormon = intellectualism and wondering what the two have in common and how much = they SHOULD have in common. We know a believing Mormon can be a Democrat, but can a believing Mormon = be a humanist? Is there such a thing as "faithful humanism," or is that an = unresolvable oxymoron? The two dictionary definitions of humanism that = seem most applicable to me in this setting are: "the revival of classical = letters, individualistic and critical spirit, and emphasis on secular = concerns characteristic of the Renaissance," and "a philosophy that = usually rejects supernaturalism and stresses an individual's dignity and = worth and capacity for self-realization through reason." In considering that question, it would be interesting and fruitful to = compare the mission statement of the main Mormon intellectual bastian--the = Sunstone Foundation--with the statement of purpose of Free Inquiry: Sunstone The mission of the Sunstone Foundation is to sponsor open forums of = Mormon thought and experience. Under the motto "Faith Seeking Understanding= ," we examine and express the rich spiritual, intellectual, social, and = artistic qualities of Mormon history and contemporary life. We encourage = humanitarian service, honest inquiry, and responsible interchange of ideas = that is respectful of all people and what they hold sacred. Free Inquiry Our best guide to truth is free and rational inquiry; we should = therefore not be found by the dictates of arbitrary authority, comfortable = superstition, stifling tradition, or suffocating orthodoxy. We should = defer to no dogma--neither religious nor secular--and never be afraid to = ask, "How do you know?" We should be concerned with the here and now, with = solving human problems with the best resources of human minds and hearts. I admire Sunstone's idealized goals, but I think most educated Mormons = would say the Free Inquiry statement applies more to Sunstone than = Sunstone's statement does, which highlights the difficulties and pitfalls = of the whole endeavor.=20 The spiritual dangers I see intellectuals facing are pride, stiff-neckednes= s, and relying on the arm of flesh (in other words, humanism stated in = orthodox Mormon terms). But I see room for using god-given intellectual = talents to openly explore Mormon experience, scholarship, issues, and art = in a way that is at least not unfaithful, although the institutional = Church and those who fully cleave unto it intellectually and culturally = (not just spiritually and doctrinally) will rarely be satisfied with it. I = look to intellectuals to continue finding sensitive, careful ways to break = the following cultural taboos identified by Free Inquiry magazine and = certainly applicable to Mormonism: Don't criticize anything the public loves. Don't demean any social icons.=20 Don't evaluate dogma, superstition, or strongly held beliefs. Don't question the current trends. Don't ask for evidence. Don't criticize religion. The question for me is, is it possible to do so in a more inclusive, less = polarizing way? Can Mormons learn to simultaneously juggle intellectualism/= humanism and faith?=20 Chris Bigelow - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:22:29 -0700 From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: [AML] Re: What We're Reading Right Now I just haven't had the time to read as much as I like for the past several months. Since January I have acted in two plays, directed two plays and written another. That's in addition to a couple of write-for-hire jobs and bits and pieces on smaller personal projects. For Christmas last year I got a terrific book by David Quammen, _The Song of the Dodo: Island Biogeography in an Age of Extinctions_. I started reading it right away and I was doing pretty well until "Much Ado About Nothing" got in the way. I have made it only to page two-hundred. Five-hundred more to go. I have Ed Snow's _Of Curious Workmanship_ in my scripture tote. I read a bit whenever sacrament meeting gets too boring. I read Eric Samuelsen's _Singled Out_ one Sunday. Other than that, I can't remember reading any other books this whole year except for _The Doctine and Covenants & Pearl of Great Price_. I'll finish the _Book of Mormon_ sometime before Christmas. If I get Scott Card's _Sarah_ for Christmas this year (I am drafting a letter to Santa), I will drop everything and read it in a couple of days. Then I will get back to the singing dodos. J. Scott Bronson--The Scotted Line "World peace begins in my home" - -------------------------------------------------------- "Anybody who sees live theatre should come out a little rearranged." Glenn Close - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:45:56 -0700 From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: Re: [AML] VAN WAGONER Interview in Irreantum On Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 08:31:53PM -0700, Morgan Adair wrote: > Of course, it's also possible that Van Wagoner set the story in SLC and > included a few Mormon references because he is familiar with Mormon > culture and knows the names of streets and landmarks in SLC. Sometimes > a cigar is just a cigar, and sometime a city is just a city. A book has to be > set somewhere--does setting it in SLC mean that the book is really "about" > Mormonism, in the absence of any other evidence? In stories where "a cigar is just a cigar," I think the author has missed an opportunity to create a greater depth by choosing meaningful symbols. Why choose a cigar when you could choose a cigarette (commercially manufactured or hand rolled), a pipe, or a marijuana joint. Each carries some pre-established concepts that the audience correlates into the story. In Van Wagoner's _Dancing Naked,_ Van Wagoner goes out of his way to associate Terry's emotional state with his geography. Terry's most conflicted periods of life occur in Salt Lake. The literal "dancing naked" scene -- the peak of Terry's happiness -- takes place on the Maine coast. Van Wagoner set his book in Salt Lake because his main character reflects the culture of that area. He could have placed Terry's Mormon family in southern California, but he would have achieved a different effect. - -- Terry Jeffress - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:05:27 -0800 (PST) From: Kathleen Meredith Subject: Re: [AML] What We're Reading Right Now Lawrence, D.H., Women in Love: One of my all time=20 favorite books. A good follow-up read is a D.H=20 Lawrence short story, =93Odor of Chrysanthemums=94. =20 Depicts the completely other end of the social strata. Shakespeare, King Lear: See =93Ran=94 a Japanese version=20 of the King Lear Story. Stegner, Wallace, Angle of Repose, A beautiful book=20 that cuts through all the sentimentality so common in=20 pioneer stories=85 ahem. *Miller, Sue, While I Was Gone: Interesting choice, I felt she wrote kindof like Daniel Steele, (but then=20 I've only read one of her books, years ago). I had=20 this and Terry Tempest William=92s book, _Leap_ with me=20 in Madrid this summer. Finished Miller, couldn=92t=20 stand the latter. Laake, Deborah, Secret Ceremonies: Interesting choice=20 for =93LDS=94 lit. Sad story about someone trying to live the gospel without an understanding of its=20 principles. Terribly sad how her story ended this=20 last year. McCourt, Frank, 'Tis : Not nearly as wonderful as=20 _Angela=92s Ashes_. The characters all become pretty=20 much as awful as the father. Unfair marketing ploy to simply bind the first part of a book under one title=20 and the conclusion, (which, I feel is inferior) in a=20 second book. Right Now I'm reading (and would suggest that every=20 Mormon woman should as well): _Family Ties_, by=20 Clarice Lispector. _On the Road_, Jack Kerouac _Kiss of the Spider Woman_, Manuel Puig _Poisonwood Bible_, actually haven't started this one, but really looking forward to it as my ancestors=20 resided in South Africa before joining the church and=20 emigrating to the US. [Kathleen Meredith] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 02:39:57 GMT From: Jeffrey Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Anti-Intellectualism [snip] Also, are there > people who DO deserve ad hominem attacks? If so, please tell me who t= hey > are so that I can turn my guns on them.=20 I didn't intend that. I don't think anyone deserves an ad hominem=20 attack. It points to a lack of a coherent argument, the equivalent of=20= "your mother wears army boots." Ad homenim is my second favorite > fallacy after "straw man," though I am partial to slippery slope and a= d > populum. (Note the use of reductio ad absurdum, which is my favorite > classical rhetorical strategy). > One need not be a "smug self-styled intellectual," as I just was, in=20= order > to claim that there are stupid people in the world, though it is=20 sometimes > awful to say as much.=20 You miss the point. In the original post, an entire class of people who= =20 don't understand, or appreciate (I forget), a piece of art are called=20= "stupid." Does this not strike you as odd? I've looked at some pieces = of art in museums and said, "I don't get it." Lots of people who=20 appreciate such art DO get it. I don't get it. I'm not stupid. I'm no= =20 genius, to be sure. But I'm not stupid, I'm just not very much into=20= appreciation of some forms of art. I happen to love watching "The West Wing." Some people don't like it. = Some don't get it. None of them are "stupid," at least not just because= =20 they neither like nor understand "The West Wing." Is that clearer? In fact, lots of rednecks and anti-intellectual > gun-toting PBS nay-sayers think that certain people are stupid for any= > number of reasons that have only to do with the fact that the rednecks= =20 don't > like what the "stupid" people are saying about, for example, making it= > harder for eight-year olds to accidentally shoot their cousins in the = head. > But let me be candid. > There is at times a very anti-intellectual strain on this list. It ha= s=20 come > out on more that one occasion in the last half year or so that I have = been > posting. People have, from time-to-time, said that the pursuit of for= mal > education is worthless for writers, that college English professors, i= n > particular, don't know jack about anything, and so forth. That is=20= nonsense, > and we have been over that, but it seems to play well on this channel,= so=20 it > goes unchallenged for the most part, which is too bad. I would be the last one to encourage anti-intellectualism. Such a way o= f=20 thinking is unfortunate. It's not uncommon among religious groups, but = it's still unfortunate. However, I don't think the "stupid" quotation=20= brings us any closer to a resolution to the problem. Perhaps the real solution is to return to civility. - --=20 Jeffrey Needle E-mail: jeff.needle@general.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 22:00:22 -0700 From: "Brent J. Rowley" Subject: Re: [AML] ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_ Christopher Bigelow wrote: > If I had to predict the next category that would make it big within orthodox Mormon publishing (besides historical and romance), I would say speculative fiction like yours, so may you be on the early swell of an upcoming wave and become the Lund of speculative Mormon fiction. Or maybe it will be mystery, although you don't see Deseret cranking those out after some experimentation (I remember some title about "Cankered Roots"). If I remember right, Rachel Nunes's cover blurb calls your novel a great contribution to Mormon speculative fiction, but I found myself unable to think of any within the Mormon market (meaning Deseret Book and Covenant, mainly)---although I'm sure there's some. The speculative genre seems to be what's really broken out in the larger Christian market, so maybe Mormonism will follow that trend. > Chris, I'd be VERY interested in hearing what your definition is for "Mormon Speculative Fiction," and why it is that there aren't many out there up until now. And while you're at it, why do you think it'll be the next big thing in Mormon publishing? - -BJ Rowley - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 18:16:07 -0600 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] Moderator Note re: Pornography in Utah Folks, I'm exercising a rare moderator's prerogative and cutting off this discussion at this point, with no further posts on this topic to go out at this time (including those currently in my in-box). The discussion has not returned to a more literary connection, and it's cluttering up the AML-List in-box at a time when many other exciting conversations are taking place on topics more closely connected with the purpose of the List. Apologies to those whose comments I'm cutting off in mid-stream. Please understand that I don't mean this as a rebuke to anyone. It's just that I think we've explored this topic at sufficient length for right now, and it's time to move on to other things. Conversation is encouraged on other aspects of the Real Life thread. Jonathan Langford AML-List Moderator - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 22:12:19 -0700 From: "bwillson01" Subject: Re: [AML] Anti-Intellectualism (was: Robert Hughes and Stupid People) A joke is something that is intended to make people laugh. Where does it say a joke should be used to make the majority laugh at the minority to such an extent as to make the minority feel shame and even pain, or to make one segment of humanity laugh at another segment to the extent it causes a rift or intense anger, and a desire for retaliation? Bill Willson - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #200 ******************************