From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #232 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Wednesday, January 17 2001 Volume 01 : Number 232 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:25:01 -0700 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] BYU May Ban 'R' From Classes > Give them more credit - the media committie is made up of > real people making > real decisions - we shouldn't treat them like some monolithic > entity that can be > easily discarded because they aren't real people. I'll let you and others give them more credit. But as for me, as each day passes, I feel to thank God that I never followed through on my once strongly held desire to return and teach at BYU. Thom - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:18:55 -0700 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: RE: [AML] BYU May Ban 'R' From Classes Ivan Wolfe wrote: >Give them more credit - the media committie is made up of real >people = making >real decisions - we shouldn't treat them like some monolithic >entity = that can be >easily discarded because they aren't real people. Quite so. I stand corrected and in need of apology and repentance. = Obviously, I judged the people who created the document in question. In my defense, let me say that we can really only base a response to a = text on the text itself, and this text was a disaster. I didn't see much = evidence of a more liberal bent anyplace in it. What I saw was a full-out = attack on contemporary media. I'm glad to hear that a more tempered = document might become the final outcome. I cheerfully and hopefully await = it. Eric Samuelsen - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:32:06 -0600 From: "Darvell" Subject: RE: [AML] BYU May Ban 'R' From Classes From: "Thom Duncan" wrote: >This idea that literature shouldn't disturb you is nonsense. Aren't the >scriptures disturbing (at the same time that they are comforting) to >sinners? Being disturbed can be a good thing, if it leads to the changing >of a life. >Thom I think we, as a culture, are still having the same problems that the Puritans had. (Remember _The Crucible_.) Things may not be simply as black and white as we might wish. When I went to Utah State University (much different from BYU), I was dating a girl who was required in one of her classes to watch the film, "The Breakfast Club," which just happens to be rated-R. She refused and the instructor wouldn't to budge on the requirement, so she got a zero on the assignment. She felt proud for not compromising her values. But she missed one of the greatest movies of the 80's, as well as one of the movies that has affected my life the most. It was a little rough in places, but it couldn't have been done any other way. It didn't have the rough parts just to have them, as many movies do. There was a specific point, and the movie hit it hard. "The Breakfast Club" remains one of my all-time favorite films (among many others), and I dare say that she missed out immensely. Now I can appreciate her strong will to "stay straight," but you know, life isn't always "straight." We are taught that there must be opposition in all things, as life is full of opposition (and it needs to be that way). To ignore opposition is just as wrong as to embrace it. Darvell _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:29:05 -0800 (PST) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: Re: [AML] SODERBERGH, _Traffic_ (Movie) Michael Rawson reported on KUTV News Jan. 5 that Hatch had issued a statement saying that rough elements in the film were gratuitous and that he was sorry he had participated in it. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:45:58 -0800 From: Ethan Skarstedt Subject: Re: [AML] BYU May Ban 'R' From Classes I am a firm believer in the idea that truth can be found anywhere. There are of course some sources that so predominantly spew forth filth that it's better to let the nuggets of truth that tumble out along with the sludge pass by ungathered. The line between the two situations: too much filth to warrant the search for the nugget and too much truth to warrant foregoing the search, is a wavy one. It is, frankly, imossible for us mortals to draft a document that can be an accurate guide in all situations. Therefore, it is necessary, as Mr. Samuelson points out, to judge the material on a case by case basis, the most efficient way to do this being to let the professors make their own decision and handle the objections in the same manner, case by case, through the same process that is used everywhere to handle compaints, the one Mr. Samuelson describes. And what will the criteria that the professors use to judge be, one might ask? In the case of professors at BYU the answer is simple. The same criteria that any member of the LDS faith would use, the guidance given in scripture and over the pulpit, etc... Simple answer. Unfortunately, from the general tone and content of the document it sounds like the "management" at BYU believe themselves to be far more responsible and moral than the general faculty and must therefore draft some kind of specific guideline, their judgement being so much more reliable than those whom they manage. This is also a standard tactic of people who are afraid of taking personal responsibility but are nevertheless required to make decisions; just do something so silly that it will be ignored by those below you but to which you can point as evidence of having done something. (This also comes in handy when the complaints arrive as it turns everyone below you into a convenient scapegoat) The two attitudes, holier than thou and fear of personal responsibility, are often found together. Too bad the administration and bureaucracy at BYU is absolutely riddled with them. Ethan Skarstedt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 01:07:46 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Telepathy and Magic Brown wrote: > Where was it that I read that Freud said it was the UNCONSCIOUS? Is there > some way to tell the difference? Yes, I've been told there is technically a difference between the "unconscious" and the "subconscious." Personally, I'm not sure what, nor am I sure I buy the difference. Without noticing it until someone pointed it out to me, I have adopted the term "subconscious" almost exclusively. I think I "subconsciously" recognized that I didn't agree with the label "unconscious." I don't think the part of the mind we are talking about is totally UNconscious. It's not out there in some distant cognitive limbo. We are aware of its operation in certain ways. I think it operates _below_ the conscious level--SUBconsciously--and has a consciousness of its own of sorts, just no volition or value judgment. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:53:47 -0700 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Literature in Relief Society What run to be resurrecting the R.S. Magazine! I am an antique who actually got my start there! I tricked them into publishing my very first poem ever published by sending it from Quebec so that they thought I was a Canadian sister! Then I went on to publish stories there! About old ladies! So that when I met Vesta Crawford, she said, "Oh, I thought you were much older!" Ah, memories! Marilyn Brown - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:30:28 -0600 From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN LDS Writer Orson Scott Card Says This Tour His Last: Hatrack River Press Release From: Kent Larsen To: Mormon News Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:45:00 -0500 Subject: MN LDS Writer Orson Scott Card Says This Tour His Last: Hatrack River Press Release 6Jan01 A2 [From Mormon-News] LDS Writer Orson Scott Card Says This Tour His Last PASADENA, CALIFORNIA -- Feeling the effects of age and family responsibilities, LDS writer Orson Scott Card announced that his current book tour will be his last. While Card will still visit bookstores occasionally for book signings, he says this will be the last time that he takes a trip to do a string of book signings. Card also announced that he is planning a science fiction convention around his Ender's Game novels, starting in the summer of 2002. In his announcement, Card cited his age (nearly fifty), the effect the tours have on his family, and the effect the tours have on his writing as factors that led to his decision. "I enjoy the actual signings, the chance to meet those who read my books and hear what they care about and look for in the work I do," says Card. "It's the surrounding problems, like jet lag, lost sleep, lack of real exercise, and being away from home, that are taking too high a toll." Card also said that he is in a position where he doesn't have to sacrifice being at home when his six-year-old comes home from school, and the tour keeps him from that for a period of more than two weeks. In addition, he finds that he can't write anything substantial for weeks before a tour and about a week afterwards. "Presumably, if given a choice, everyone would rather have more books than more autographing sessions," read a written press release sent out by Card. But Card also pleased fans with the announcement that he plans to start a series of conventions centered around his "Ender's Game" books. EnderCon I is tentatively scheduled for the summer of 2002, the 25th anniversary of the publication of the novelet version of "Ender's Game" in the science fiction magazine Analog. Source: OSC Announces Last Signing Tour OSC Press Release 6Jan01 A2 http://www.hatrack.com/news-reviews/2001-01-06.shtml >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:08:46 -0700 From: "Jim Cobabe" Subject: Re: [AML] BYU May Ban 'R' From Classes How dare an institution such as BYU, claiming to be a place of higher learning, presume to issue arbitrary standards that restrict the "academic" pursuits of its educators? What an undignified and unseemly imposition! These institutional bureaucrats want nothing more than to reserve all the perqs to themselves. Of course we all recognize that BYU should operate under exactly the same rules as all other universities. And we laud the "academic freedom" that affords professors at all other universities absolute freedom to do and say whatever they wish without restriction or censure. - --- Jim Cobabe _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:18:25 -0700 From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] SODERBERGH, _Traffic_ (Movie) On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:29:05 -0800 (PST), R.W. Rasband wrote: >Michael Rawson reported on KUTV News Jan. 5 that Hatch >had issued a statement saying that rough elements in >the film were gratuitous and that he was sorry he had >participated in it. KNRS ("Family news radio") on Jan. 4th played clips of Hatch saying that = the film had a hard subject and it dealt with it harshly and that he was = proud to have appeared in it. Jacob Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:38:44 -0700 From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Literature in Relief Society On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:53:47 -0700, Brown wrote: >What run to be resurrecting the R.S. Magazine! I am an antique who = actually >got my start there! I tricked them into publishing my very first poem = ever >published by sending it from Quebec so that they thought I was a = Canadian >sister! Then I went on to publish stories there! About old ladies! So = that >when I met Vesta Crawford, she said, "Oh, I thought you were much = older!" >Ah, memories! Marilyn Brown How interesting! In digging for my shoe polish kit yesterday, I came = across my collection of R.S. Magazine from Melissa's Grandma. They span 1953 through 1958. Melissa made the discovery that the earliest one we have (1941) is volume *28*. The magazine apparently started in 1914 (and is stated as such in the front) and continued almost 50 years. I'd have to = do some research to find out, but I'd bet it stands a reasonable chance of being the earliest/longest running women's magazine. If anyone is closer= to research facilities than I am and want to track down some statistics, I'd= be interested in where it stands historically. The publishing data in front of VOL. 28 NO. 3 (March, 1941) states: Published Monthly by the General Board of Relief Society Editorial and Business Offices: 28 Bishop's Building, Salt Lake City, = Utah, Phone 3-2741, Ex. 243. Subscription Price: $1.00 a year; foreign, $1.00 = a year; payable in advance. Single copy, 10c. The Magazine is not sent = after subscription expires. Renew promptly so that no copies will be missed. Report change of address at once, giving both old and new address. Entered as second-class matter February 18, 1914, at the Post Office, = Salt Lake City, Utah, under the Act of March 3, 1879. Acceptance for mailing = at special rate of postage provided for in section 1103, Act of October 8, 1917, authorized June 29, 1918. Stamps should accompany manuscripts for their return. Jacob Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:29:14 -0700 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] BYU May Ban 'R' From Classes Jim Cobabe wrote: > > Of course we all recognize that BYU should operate under exactly the same > rules as all other universities. And we laud the "academic freedom" that > affords professors at all other universities absolute freedom to do and say > whatever they wish without restriction or censure. No, it should operate under real rules that make sense rather than arbitrary based on fear of the media wherein BYU student are treated like children rather than the adults they are. Either Joseph's teaching correct principles while the people govern themsleves means something or it doesn't. And please make a list of any university where a professor can say whatever he/she wishes without restriction or censure? I know of none. Thom - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:27:21 -0700 From: Melissa Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Literature in Relief Society On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:53:47 -0700, Brown wrote: >What run to be resurrecting the R.S. Magazine! I am an antique who = actually >got my start there! I tricked them into publishing my very first poem = ever >published by sending it from Quebec so that they thought I was a = Canadian >sister! Then I went on to publish stories there! About old ladies! So = that >when I met Vesta Crawford, she said, "Oh, I thought you were much = older!" Marilyn, that is so funny! I love everything about these magazines. I think some of it is that "antique" aspect, but mostly it's astonishing to discover the extent of the subjects it covered. Poetry, short fiction, scholarly essays, lessons...and frequent articles talking about the same issues that face Mormons today. While we're on the subject: In one of the contest issues, a poem by = Alice Morrey Bailey won second runner up. I know this name, but I can't = remember from where or why. Either she's someone who publishes in Mormon circles = or she's from our old ward in Vancouver, but it's driving me crazy. Can = anyone save my sanity? Melissa Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:00:30 -0700 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Telepathy and Magic I agree with you about the "subconscious and unconscious," Michael, and to think I have felt forced to say "unconscious" all these years because of Jung! Well, I guess we can just boot him off the screen! MB - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 07:16:08 GMT From: Jeffrey Needle Subject: [AML] WATSON, _Mormonism, the Faith of the Twenty First Century_ (Review) Review =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Edward K. Watson, "Mormonism, the Faith of the Twenty First Century",=20= Vol. 1 1998, Liahona Publications, 437pp + endnotes + index + Scripture=20 reference guide=20 Hardback, $39.95 Reviewed by Jeffrey Needle Before commenting on the book, I'd like to supply a few statistics about= =20 the book: 1. The Introduction is 91 pages long. 2. The list of abbreviations is 21 pages long (including reference work= s=20 cited) 3. The list of definitions is 4 pages long. And all this comes before the book proper begins. =20 Additionally, the blurb on the back flyleaf makes the following=20 statement: "Edward Watson uses forty Bible versions and more than sixty Bible=20 Dictionaries, Hebrew-English and Greek English Lexicons all of which are= =20 from the leading non-Mormon scholars in examining the usage and=20 interpretation of pertinent biblical words and passages. He also draws = from Kabbalistic writings, Rabbinical literature, the Pseudepigrapha,=20= Apocrypha, the Church Fathers, Philo, Josephus, Dead Sea Scrolls, Targum= s=20 and even theoretical physics and modern cosmology in presenting Mormon=20= thought in a logical and biblical manner." The point? It appears Bro. Watson has been very, very busy. No one can= =20 accuse him of being lazy in his research. Having said all that, let's get into the book proper. "Mormonism" is=20= just one of a projected set of volumes designed to explain, and defend, = the faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. =20 Encyclopedic in nature, and thoroughly apologetic in design, It grabs a= =20 question, turns it upside down and backwards, and squeezes every piece o= f=20 information possible out of it. Volume 1 comprises three sections, each dealing with a broad topic. =20= Section 1, "Heavenly Father," explores the nature of the Father. 18=20= subdivisions approach the issue from a different perspective. #10, for= =20 example, asks the question, "Can God be Called Man?" Many scriptures=20= follow, along with a rationale for answering the question either in the = affirmative or the negative. The following subdivision, #11, "Many Earl= y=20 Christians Believed God Has a Physical Anthropomorphic Body," cites earl= y=20 church fathers in their support of this idea. Subsection 14, "A Tale of two Cosmologies: Multiversal and Universal," i= s=20 a fascinating discussion of the nature of the universe, time, space, and= =20 other concepts. Section 2, "Jesus Christ," discusses the nature and person of the Son. = Section 3, "The Holy Ghost," finishes out the discussion of the Godhead = with an extended discussion of Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism. Clearly, this isn't a book one just sits and reads and pooliside. It is= =20 the kind of book you go to when you need support and reference on a=20 specific question regarding LDS theology, providing tools that the=20 average member will find useful. Very intriguing are two opening statements, one called "Warning to=20 Mormons" and the other "Warning to Non-Mormons." The first is a simple = two-paragraph warns members not to depend on this book, or on scholarshi= p=20 at all, to produce a testimony. He understands that tools like this boo= k=20 may lead toward self-righteousness and pride as members present their=20= critics with strong arguments. This is not his design. The "Warning to Non-Mormons" is much more exhaustive. In five strong an= d=20 non-compromising questions, Watson urges non-Mormon readers to "be hones= t=20 with yourselves and with God," embracing those ideas which are=20 demonstrably true and provable. I thoroughly enjoyed perusing this volume. I've found myself turning to= =20 it for clear, sound discussions of questions concerning Mormon theology.= =20 And while Watson uses hundreds of sources and tackles some very difficul= t=20 questions, his method is designed for comprehension and appeal to the=20= non-scholar. For example, pages 148-188 contain an extended discussion of the theodic= y=20 question, titled "God and the Problem of Evil"? An example of the plain= =20 discussion follows: "Mormonism teaches we are actually uncreated 'intelligences.' This=20 central portion of our being is the very core of who we are. Our=20 'Intelligence,' the foundation of man's spirit wasn't created by God."=20= (p. 157) "Mormonism views God as working with self-existent intelligences. He is= =20 thus limited. He can be all-good but the evil in the world is not his=20= responsibility. He is simply doing his best being limited by our=20 free-will, the pre-existent nature of Good and Evil and by the causality= =20 of the universe." (p. 159) And while some contemporary Mormon literature works its way around some = of these difficult issues, Watson attacks them head-on, neither dodging = issues nor spouting cliches to support them. I'm very glad to have this book, and highly recommend it to serious=20 students who will appreciate a major work of research and scholarship. = I anxiously await further volumes in this series. The publisher, Liahon= a=20 Publications, lists an address at 41-7188 Edmonds St. Burnaby, B.C.=20 Canada V3N 4X6. They also have a website at www.liahonapublications.com= . - --=20 Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:41:08 -0500 From: Tony Markham Subject: Re: [AML] BYU May Ban 'R' From Classes Jim Cobabe wrote: ... And we laud the "academic freedom" that affords professors at all other universities absolute freedom to do and say whatever they wish without restriction or censure. Jim, There are restrictions everywhere. I teach at an institution where academic freedom is respected and fought for by teachers and administration alike. We are partners in this, not adversaries, which separates us from BYU, I think. But even here in New York, a bastion of liberality and strong unions, there are clear boundaries. We do not have "absolute freedom to do and say whatever [we] wish without restriction or censure." While the hyperbole and sarcasm from your post are not lost on me, I'm not sure they help my distant colleagues at the Y who are struggling to (a) do the job they were hired to do to the best of their abilities and (c) compromising their curriculum due to political in-fighting over who can best goose-step in unison. Because I majored in Theater and Cinema at BYU, the current debate hits close to home. Film is sooooo unfairly treated due to that stinkwad Hayes Commission and its successors. How about if we applied the MPAA ratings to books and plays, the Bible and the Book of Mormon, Anatomy textbooks, Art textbooks, and then made the policy universal at BYU--No R-rated literature of any kind. Let's see how those other faculty would react when all their resources for teaching hit the "Banned" list. Tony Markham - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #232 ******************************