From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #245 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Thursday, February 1 2001 Volume 01 : Number 245 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:45:40 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: RE: [AML] SODERBERGH, _Traffic_ (Movie) > >Traffic is the sort of film that would offend mainstream LDS viewers. I >suspect they would see it as a worldly exploitation of drugs. I would >argue >against it being exploitative. I whole-heartedly agree with this. Drugs are certainly not glamorized in the film. To the extent that the film is "about" drug use (it's more about the war on drugs), it's a cautionary tale: If you use drugs, you're going to wind up screwed up, strung out or dead. It's the old discussion we've already had here several times, about whether it's necessary to show the bad stuff in order to emphasize the good. In this case, the messages would not have been nearly as profound if the drug use and dehumanization associated with it had been glossed over or merely implied. As with "Requiem for a Dream," it wouldn't have been enough to tell us that the characters wallowed in hell; we have to go there with them. Eric D. Snider _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:06:01 -0700 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Handling Agents Hey, Chris! You have done more with your astounding query letter than I have done in a lifetime. You're going to hit, I just feel it in my bones! My request is that you save the letters of all these people and their addresses so the rest of us can look at them! Bless you! Marilyn Brown - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:05:55 -0700 From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] Author's Say in Book Layout Rose Green wrote: > Question--How much say does an author (excluding someone who is both > author/illustrator of a picture book) have over the book layout? I recently > read a book that had a terribly distracting layout, as far as I was > concerned. It looked almost double-spaced and yet had very narrow margins, > especially in the gutter (is that the right word? in the middle). It > almost looked like someone had just copied out their own typed-up manuscript > and bound it. I guess it was supposed to look like that, though, because it > was published by Alfred Knopf. Regardless of publisher, I would HATE to > have a book end up looking like that. Is the author just stuck with it, or > can one complain about the packaging? Some regional presses might let an author have limited say in the layout/design of a picture book, but not the national publishing houses. An author usually doesn't even get to help choose the illustrator. I'm surprised that a book published by Knopf would be so poorly designed. Perhaps it is *supposed* to look amateurish. What is the title? Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:15:04 -0700 From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Regionalism Laurel Brady wrote: > My experience with my editor at HarperCollins has been exactly the opposite. > I was nervous about submitting my first book, as it has rather direct > references to faith and God and family and not too subtle Mormon values. My > editor jumped on those things, and encouraged me to not only keep them in, > but expand them. snip > The second book I submitted is set in Utah, and very definitely about > Mormons. I'm not sure why I submitted this in the first place, as it is > entirely written in blank verse. With those HUGE strikes against it, the > reaction to this book has been interesting. My editor informed me right away > it can't be published as blank verse, but also informed me the editorial > committee was so intrigued by it--Mormon-ness, blank verse and all--they > instructed her to offer me a two book contract for this and an as-yet > untitled and unwritten book, to discourage me from taking my little Mormon > "poem-book" as I call it elsewhere. Laurel, this is so cool! What, specifically, is the subject matter of the "little Mormon poem book?" I wish they'd let you keep the blank verse. Hey, haven't they read _Out of the Dust_? :-) Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:00:40 -0700 From: "mjames_laurel" Subject: Re: [AML] Handling Agents > (By the way, I also have yes answers from editors at Villard Books, > Henry Holt, and Chicago Review Press, but I'm putting them off until I > see if an agent will take me on and handle the submissions.) Chris: In my opinion (which may or may not be worth anything) an editor in the hand is worth a lot more than any number of agents in the bush. If you have an editor sold on your ms, you can easily get an agent at that point since you've already done the hard work. And, even if you do have an editor begging to buy your ms, I would always recommend having an agent handle the negotiations, even though it's going to cost you 15% off the top. A good agent will without exception be more than worth the fee, particularly if you're trying to build a career, not just sell a book. Good luck! Laurel Brady - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:46:03 -0700 From: "Richard R. Hopkins" Subject: Re: [AML] Michael RITCHEY, _Disoriented_ (Review) Just some thoughts and comments on Ivan's review. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ivan Angus Wolfe To: Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:40 AM Subject: [AML] Re: Michael RITCHEY, _Disoriented_ (Review) > Ivan Wolfe said that one of the hidden messages in _Disoriented_ is: > 2. All Vietnam war vets are psychopaths (I might have let this slide if only > one character had been a Vietam vet and a psychopath - but there were at least > three - and I don't recall any well - adjusted Vietnam vets anywhere in the > book) I believe the detective, who was a major character and a good guy was a Vietnam vet. Am I wrong or did that fact receive less emphasis than it should have? > I must say I was sort of impressed when the main character died (very few > writers will kill a main hero so early on) - and wasn't too bothered by > following him to the spirit world (but by that point my expectations were very > low). > > But then (***Spoiler warning*** to those who may still want to read it): > > > > He gets brought back from the dead in a very dubious way - perhaps his dissolved > body might be reconsituted - but does his spirit have to rejoin it? I thought it was fairly obvious that sending his spirit back was an option determined by "the powers that be" in the spirit world, not something that occured automatically. The villain, too, was "reoriented" but his spirit was not given the option of returning. The return was facilitated by the fact that the hero spent very little actual time in the spirit world. Did that come across? The reconstitution of the hero's body at the end seemed inevitable to me based on the physics premise. That's probably why you guys figured it out from the start. Frankly, I was surprised how few people anticipated that. So what did you feel was wrong in going with the obvious? Is this writing skill, or personal taste? Personally, one of my pet peeves is the penchant of some writers to posit the occurence of events that could not have happened just to make their story seem different. I think an author needs to set up an event so it has a high probability of occurance, or they should make their story out of what, in fact, is most likely to occur. (Not that what does happen is always foreseeable, of course.) Am I missing something? > the book was full of plot holes - no real terror for the main characters, and a > too easily wrapped up ending where everything turns out okay (He even fooled me > - I started to get some respect when it looked like a few things would never be > resolved and thus the heroes would still have consequences following them after > the book ended - but alas - no such luck. Everything finally does get > resolved). This criticism is very curious to me. What's wrong with everything turning out okay, resolving all the consequences? Personally, I feel an author is sloppy if he or she doesn't tie up the loose ends in a fictional story. Am I the only one who feels that way? Isn't that a characteristic of escapist literature? Isn't scifi mostly escapist in nature?Does my taste tend toward the juvenile on this issue? Help! Richard Hopkins - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:17:24 -0700 From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] Handling Agents Christopher Bigelow wrote: >My question is, a New York agent named Richard Curtis telephoned and >asked for a 10-day exclusive look at the manuscript, which I thought >was reasonable, so I let the other 13 know I'd be delaying them a >couple of weeks. Richard Curtis is very well respected agent, and is someone you would probably do very well to work with. I would love to have him as my agent. What he's asking for with the 10-day exclusive is the ability to shop it around to find out whether he can sell it. I suspect he believes it's a sellable book but he wants to make sure before he commits to representing it. So... Do what you need to do, but know that Richard Curtis is a well-respected agent, and consider his request for an exclusive to be very good news. If he agrees to represent you, that probably means he has a tentative buyer in the works. At that point you just need to pick an agent that you think has the contacts and track record of successfully negotiating deals in your market. Curtis has a very good reputation in sf genre circles as being one of the high-value guys that can help move you into film and other media. I don't have much information about his work with other categories. In any case, you could do much worse. I know of some books (I believe one was subtitled, "Being Your Own Literary Agent") but I'll need to research to give you specifics. Sounds like some good possibilities are brewing for you. I wish you the best of luck and success on your effort. I think this underscores my personal belief that Mormonism is now sufficiently accepted by the mainstream that we can start selling a variety of novels that deal explicitly with Mormon spirituality and social mindset. We're seen as at least slightly exotic right now, and people are interested in the inner minds of real Mormons, not set pieces in an expose. I look forward to hearing what happens. Be well. Scott Parkin - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:25:38 -0600 From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN LDS Student Actress Sues U of Utah Over Play Text: Salt Lake Tribune From: Rosemary Pollock To: Mormon News Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:20:00 -0500 Subject: MN LDS Student Actress Sues U of Utah Over Play Text: Salt Lake Tribune 25Jan01 A2 [From Mormon-News] LDS Student Actress Sues U of Utah Over Play Text SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- University of Utah student Christina Axson-Flynn has filed a lawsuit in federal court claiming her constitutional rights to freedom of speech and religion have been violated by the faculty of the U's Actor Training Program. University theater professors allegedly refused to let Axon-Flynn omit two offensive words from an in-class performance, in spite of them allowing a Jewish classmate to miss an entire assignment to observe Yom Kippur. In a January 4th deposition, student Jeremy Rische said he was excused from an in-class assignment, later tutored and allowed to take a test he missed for observing Yom Kippur, a Jewish holy day. University spokesman, Fred Esplin believes the allegations are groundless. "The university does not discriminate on the basis of gender, religion or ethnicity, and that's what we expect the court will ultimately determine," Esplin said. James W. McConkie, the attorney representing Axson-Flynn said, "The state has no compelling reason as to why it's essential she say the word 'God' in order to get a good education." "Our client is not trying to affect what is taught, how it is taught, what the curriculum is, what is in the curriculum and what isn't," McConkie said. In filings last November, attorneys Alain C. Balmanno and Peggy E. Stone urged U.S. District Judge Tena Campbell to weigh any alleged violations to Axson-Flynn's constitutional rights "against the backdrop of the university's freedom to determine its curriculum and how to instruct the students in the curriculum." When admitted to the University of Utah, Axson-Flynn, who is a member of The Church of Jeus Christ of Latter-day Saints, believed she would be allowed to adhere to her religious beliefs. However, in a review session at the end of semester, she was told she wold have to "modify her values" or drop out of the program. Alan Balmanno, the assistant Utah attorney general who is representing the University faculty said the Axson-Flynn and Rische cases are distinctly different. "To accommodate him on this very different type of requirement doesn't require the university to change its curriculum," Balmanno said. "If you take that proposition to its limit, if you have 25,000 students you could have 25,000 curriculums." Sources: Filing: U. Treated Religions Differently; LDS Student Argues U.Treated Her Differently Salt Lake Tribune 25Jan01 A2 http://www.sltrib.com/01252001/utah/65633.htm By Brooke Adams: Salt Lake Tribune Student sues U., cites religious bias Deseret News 24Jan01 A2 http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,245016219,00.html By Maria Titze: Deseret News staff writer Woman says professors hostile to LDS beliefs >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:55:55 -0800 From: harlowclark@juno.com Subject: Re: [AML] (Andrew's Poll) Religious Stories On Tue, 09 Jan 2001 15:09:42 -0700 "Travis Manning" writes: > Ironically, my wife and I read Lewis'_Great Divorce_ on our > honeymoon,somewheres between Salmon, Idaho and Salt Lake City. > > Don't remember the book much. That whole month of July 2000 was a > blur. > > Travis K. Manning How delightful. Donna and I began our honeymoon somewheres between Salmon, Idaho and SLC, UT--closer to Salmon, actually, in Challis, a town of 1000 or two, with about that many in the cemetery, maybe more. I believe Challis appears in one of Zane Gray's novels, Judith Freeman lived there for a time, about 4 years ago, maybe still does, and there's a reference to it in Wayne Carver's "With Voice of Joy and Praise,"' in Levi Peterson's anthology, "Greening Wheat." The Pahsimeroi valley, between Challis and Salmon (Norwegian bachelor farmers and all that) is the subject of a local novel called _Pahsimeroi_. We got married in Idaho Falls on Saturday, spent the night in Challis, went to church the next day, then my parents took us over to the Y Inn for dinner and we saw Ollie and some other friends and headed for Jellystone (for I am a bear of very little brain), but we only made it 56 miles to Salmon, however, the off-season had just started the day before, odd that Labor Day weekend isn't part of the on-season, so we got a room cheap at the Wagonwheel (I think.) Jellystone burned the next year, and we didn't get back there for our 10th anti-verserary because by then Donna's mother had regained enough health to make the gruelling trip from under-doctored deep rural northern Idaho Bo Gritz country (roughly the setting of Michael Tunnell's _Mailing May_, which I found in the Lindon Elementary library after reading about in on AML-List (3/10/00)) to the medical paradise of Utah County on a bed in her hometeacher's van. We go to Challis at least once a year, for Memorial Day, and every year the Veterans conducting the ceremony get older and older. Donna's father would be 113 or 114--WWI veteran. "Your grandfather, you mean." Odd that in a town that small with a family that large school teachers wouldn't know that detail. We were last in Challis at the end of August, when my brother-in-law had driven his Windstar across Utah and Idaho with a draped coffin in the back, our families in our Windstar. While my mother-in-law was dying I sat by her bed one night and started reading a book I was supposed to review, Kenny Kemp's _I Hated Heaven._ It was not lost on me that I was reading a book about death, but I didn't choose it for the subject. I read it that weekend. Interesting experience. Will make a good review. Harlow S. Clark ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:41:07 -0700 From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: [AML] tentative LTU&E symposium schedule/call for panelists It's time once again for Life, the Universe, & Everything XIX, the science fiction and fantasy symposium at BYU. The symposium will be March 1-3 (the weekend after the AML conference) and it's FREE (except the Saturday banquet). Guests of Honor are Harry Turtledove, Tracy Hickman (a Mormon), and Jeanne Cavelos. Below is a TENTATIVE schedule of panels; others will be added as this only includes the writing and media panels but not the art, academic, and create-your-own-world panels. Anyone who would like to be on a panel (or has suggestions), please contact Charlene Harmon at charleneh@aol.com For more information, see http://www.jps.net/helgem/ltue/ Marny Parkin http://home.airswitch.net/MormonBib/ _________________________ Hi, everyone! This is a tentative schedule. I'm still making changes (rearranging, deleting). This is also a call for panelists. Some of you have replied. (Thank you!) Anyone else interested in being on a panel (or donating to the auction), please let me know. :) Charlene Thursday evening will be a reception (location TBA, probably off campus). Friday evening will be a cabaret (talent show) and fashion show (for costumes). Saturday evening is the banquet (tentatively a Medieval Feast again), followed by the Charity Auction (donations WELCOME). TENTATIVE schedule for LTUE 2001 Thursday, 1 March 2001 10:00-10:50 Opening Ceremonies 11:00-11:50 Main Address: Jeanne Cavelos Noon-12:50 Arthur C. Clark and 2001: a look back (Dave Powell, Bruce Thatcher?, Helge Moulding, Fantasy and Video Games 1:00-1:50 Creating story ideas: Where to look and tools to help (Sue Kroupa,Janus Daniels, Maurene Jensen, The oral storytelling tradition 2:00-2:50 Digital filmmaking and streaming media on the Internet (Helge Moulding, Carolyn Nicita, Amy Larsen, From Captain Underpants to Harry Potter: Writing Children's Novels 3:00-3:50 Copywrite and the writer (Sue Kroupa, Helge Moulding, Creating memorable villains: Disney, Shakespeare, etc. 4:00-4:50 Horror: Scare vs gore Creating your own game 4:00-4:50 Reading: Tracy Hickman 5:00-5:50 What you need to look for when you edit (Barbara Hume (M), Cara O'Sullivan, Bruce Thatcher, Janus Daniels (M), Maurene Jensen, Mary Anne Mohanraj) Q&A: Tracy Hickman Role-playing 101: So you want to play a game? (Charlene Harmon, Aleta Clegg, 6:00-6:50 LOTR: The godfather of fantasy? (Helge Moulding, Joining a fan club Friday, 2 March 2001 10:00-10:50 From Apollo to the Space Shuttle and beyond: postulating the future of space travel (Carol Paton, Laura, Bruce Thatcher, Helge Moulding, Music in SF&F (D. Michael Martindale, 11:00-11:50 Main Address: Tracy Hickman Fought Like Dragons: Sci-Fi, Fantasy, and Mormon Thought Noon-12:50 Playing Games as a way to get story ideas (Kathleen Woodbury, Carol Paton, Roddenberry's legacy: Star Trek and Beyond 1:00-1:50 Networking for writers: how to do it and does it work? (Barbara Hume, Bruce Thatcher, Sue Kroupa, Mary Anne Mohanraj, Lee Allred, Role-playing: Being a good player (tips and tricks) 2:00-2:50 Writing to a deadline (Carol Paton, Lee Allred, Role-playing: Creating and using good monsters 2:00-2:50 Foundations of Story (Tracy Hickman) 3:00-3:50 Reality is in the details: It's the little things in your story that make it memorable (Barbara Hume, Bruce Thatcher, Carol Paton, Sue Kroupa, Krys Morgan, SF&F on the stage: How to make it work and do you want to? 4:00-4:50 From dry fact to drama: using both fact and fiction in alternate histories and historicals (Kathleen Woodbury, Lee Allred, Sue Kroupa, Repeating History: Why does SF Media reflect and shadow real Earth history? (Jenna Eatough, Helge Moulding, 5:00-5:50 CYOW: RPG: Creating a believable and fun world to role play in (Charlene Harmon, Aleta Clegg, Marketing your screenplay/play 6:00-6:50 How to tell a good ghost story (Maurene Jensen, Krys Morgan, Tricks to making your own movies Creating your own Jedi costume Saturday, 3 March, 2001 8:00-10:00 Killer breakfast: Star Bores Episode II (Tracy) 10:00-10:50 Writing fantasy for the LDS market (Tyler, Lee Allred, Bruce Thatcher, Krys Morgan, Scott Parkin, The Pirate Panel: Pirates in SF&F (Aleta Clegg, 11:00-11:50 Main Address: Harry Turtledove Noon-12:50 The heart of darkness: How dark should your villains be? (Bruce Thatcher, Maurene Jensen, A. L. Carlisle, Scott Parkin, Editing your own movie 1:00-1:50 How to keep your series of books interesting to the reader (Krys Morgan, Live or die: The players guide to guerilla dungeoning (Tracy Hickman) 2:00-2:50 Making writing workshops work (Julia, Brooke, Kathleen Woodbury, Thom, D. Michael Martindale, Janus Daniels (M), Mary Anne Mohanraj) Putting it together: The little things your costume needs to succeed (Carol Paton, 3:00-3:50 Web publishing: Where to do it and why? (Ken Rand, Mary Anne Mohanraj, Helge Moulding, Space Simulators in Utah 4:00-4:50 Diction, Dialog and Dialect: Is how your character speaks as important as what they say? (Kathleen Woodbury, Sue Kroupa, Evil reformed: The new anti-hero (Forever Knight, Angel, etc.) 5:00-5:50 Makeup demo, or how to become a Klingon in ten easy steps (Carol Paton, Rich Screenwriting how to: you have a great idea, now what? 5:00-5:50 Casting call: blending fictional and historical characters in your novel 6:00-6:50 Star Wars Episode 2: Separating fact from fiction - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:14:58 -0700 From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] Dealing with Mormon History > Working as an AP in Haiti was an additional eye opener. Only new > missionaries were in the country legally, for example (visa's are > only given > for three months and the missionaries just bribe their way out of the > country). A lot of emphasis is placed on obeying the laws of the > land, but > when the rubber meets the road, some things turn out to be, er, > negotiable. As far as the government of Mexico is concerned I was never a missionary there. According to my visa I was a basketball instructor for the Mutual Improvement Association. (Anybody who has met me knows what a laugh *that* is ;-d) Because of centuries of abuse, foreign missionaries are specifically forbidden by the Mexican Constitution. But the Missionary Department arranged my visa without any unwieldly concern for the truth or the law. What that taught me is that the Church operates with an assumption that a higher good supercedes any legality. I guess honest in heart trumps honest in fact. > Nowhere in there is any kind of belief in the perfection or > infallibility of Joseph Smith, President Hinckley or anyone except God and > Jesus Christ. So even if the Church is not always truthful, it is still > True. Only the Godhead and their Atonement are unchangeable. The Church is very changeable, its programs and emphases changing constantly, as they certainly must. The people of the Church are more changeable still. - -- Scott Tarbet - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:06:27 -0700 From: Margaret Young Subject: Re: [AML] SODERBERGH, _Traffic_ (Movie) We had just the kind of chat Gideon describes with our children last month--not after seeing _Traffic_, but after my cousin died of a heroin overdose. My cousin either knew he was going to die, or overdosed on purpose. He told his parents he wanted his obituary to include a warning to all young people--which it did. It said, "Gill wanted young people to know that his death was caused by his addition to heroin." The funeral was remarkable: Mormon types, recovering drug addicts, family. The stake president, who looked "typically Mormon," opened his talk by saying, "Quite a collection we have here, isn't it. Some of you have hardly ever missed church, and others have hardly ever attended. But we're all here because we loved Gill. I am not a drug user myself, but my father was." He then told of the pain of witnessing his father hauled off to jail and not understanding why the policemen could not see his father's goodness, as he did. He told watching his father's decline, knowing the tremendous potential that was being wasted. It was a remarkable testimony. Honestly, I am a bit embarrassed at Orrin Hatch's embarrassment over appearing in _Traffic_. [Margaret Young] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:10:43 -0700 From: Margaret Young Subject: Re: [AML] Handling Agents Exclusives are great ideas, Chris. If an agent requests it, it indicates some commitment. What we all need to remember is that it is very difficult for an agent to SELL a Mormon book wherein the author actually seems to believe in Mormonism. It happens, but it's rare. My experience when I worked with an agent was that she was excited about my work but couldn't sell it. However, she said that the publishers at E.P. Dutton had said, "We've been waiting for a really good Mormon book." They were in the midst of re-structuring, so they didn't take it, but maybe now is the time--if that company still exists. It's worth a try. [Margaret Young] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:39:37 -0700 From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: Re: [AML] Handling Agents When I get a chance, I will type up and post a full list of all agents/edit= ors I've come across who are showing openness to Mormon themes (21 so = far). One of the reasons is to put them on Irreantum's mailing list--maybe = some will get into the habit of scanning our magazine for interesting = authors. I do hope my ms. catches on with someone, but if not I still = consider this query experience to be helpful in breaking Mormon writing = into the mainstream, as least for us to discuss some query strategies and = start grooming more agents/editors to look at Mormon stuff. I hope anyone = else working along similar lines will share your experiences with us, as = well as names/addresses of anyone showing openness to mainstream Mormon = writing. Chris Bigelow - -------- For a sample copy of IRREANTUM, a Mormon literary quarterly, send $4 to = the Association for Mormon Letters, 262 S. Main St., Springville, UT = 84663. >>> "Brown" 01/30 5:06 PM >>> Hey, Chris! You have done more with your astounding query letter than I = have done in a lifetime. You're going to hit, I just feel it in my bones! My request is that you save the letters of all these people and their = addresses so the rest of us can look at them! Bless you! Marilyn Brown - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:57:34 -0700 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Michael RITCHEY, _Disoriented_ (Review) Richard R. Hopkins wrote: > This criticism is very curious to me. What's wrong with everything turning > out okay, resolving all the consequences? I haven't read the book, but I'll give my opinion in general terms, using a specific example. There's nothing wrong with everything turning out all right in a novel, as long as it has been well prepared for by the author. Sometimes, it doesn't. Even the greats fail in this regard. One of my favorite Stephen King novels is _The Stand_. The ending literally comes out of nowhere. The story is over due to *nothing* done by the protagonists, with whom we've lived for over 800 pages. It's a Deus Ex Machina ending in a quite literal sense (the finger of God appears and touches off an atom bomb). At that point, all the suffering, all the deaths, all the dangers, the protagonists had gone through up to then seemed to be pointless. As I said, I haven't read _Disoriented_ but if ends like that, that may be what Ivan is talking about. Thom - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:11:52 EST From: Turk325@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Dealing with Mormon History In a message dated 1/31/01 9:30:17 AM, starbet@timp.net writes: << What that taught me is that the Church operates with an assumption that a higher good supercedes any legality. I guess honest in heart trumps honest in fact.>> But do you disagree with this? If you're a Dutch partisan hiding Jews in your basement, what do you say when the Gestapo bangs on your door? "Yup. I gotta be honest. Lemme show you where they are"? I suggest there IS a hierarchy. Kurt. [MOD: I'm allowing this through, but with the caution that we're straying dangerously far into off-topic territory, in the sense that this looks like it's becoming a discussion of "doctrines or policies of the LDS Church," which is off-topic "except as they affect how Mormons read and write" (quoting the AML-List Guidelines). Any further comments along these lines should take pains to establish a more explicit literary connection.] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:49:01 -0700 From: "Scott Tarbet" Subject: RE: [AML] SAMUELSEN, _What Really Happened_ (Performance) ***SPOILER ALERT*** Eric said: > What Really Happened is a play about the power of > rationalization. A nice young couple, Cath and Rich, begin by > telling you that they are going to tell you all about what really > happened, that it really wasn't so bad, and that it really wasn't > their fault anyway, so you shouldn't blame them. Over the course > of the play, you learn what they did, and realize that it was > horrifying. I don't want to give too much away. I've thought about this for several weeks now to let my feelings mellow after I saw the Saturday performance. After proper simmering I think it boils down to this: "What Really Happened" tries to ride the tiger and gets eaten. I had read and was intrigued by Eric's capsule description (above) before I went, and waited through the 1st act for the rationalization to begin to unfold. The characterizations were strong as were the acting and staging. So it was with considerable dismay that I realized soon after the 2nd act curtain that the central issue in WRH was going to be abortion. I'm aware that the *intended* central issue is rationalization, but abortion is so horrifying and such a societal hot button that it instantly takes center stage, drastically upstaging the more subtle issues purportedly at the heart of the piece. >From that point on I squirmed. When I saw one of the main characters for whom the playwright and actors had carefully crafted my sympathy abruptly transformed into a monster before my eyes, cold-bloodedly and graphically describing the nauseating clinical details of late term partial birth abortion, I fought back a momentary urge to walk. But clearly the piece had engaged my mind and my heart, albeit negatively, and I needed to stay. The discussion afterwards was interesting and instructive: Eric quipped in response to an inquiry as to why he wrote the piece that he had been alone, away from his family, lonely, and wanted to write a really dark, dismal piece. Eric, you succeeded. Clearly this dark, dismal piece isn't an anti-abortion diatribe, but it would work very well as one. - -- Scott Tarbet - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:56:37 -0700 From: Barbara@techvoice.com (Barbara R. Hume) Subject: Re: [AML] Michael RITCHEY, _Disoriented_ (Review) >This criticism is very curious to me. What's wrong with everything turning >out okay, resolving all the consequences? Personally, I feel an author is >sloppy if he or she doesn't tie up the loose ends in a fictional story. Am I >the only one who feels that way? Isn't that a characteristic of escapist >literature? Isn't scifi mostly escapist in nature?Does my taste tend toward >the juvenile on this issue? Help! > >Richard Hopkins I strongly agree with you on this, Richard. A novel is a work of art, not a slice of life, which is often sloppy and tedious in places and frustrating and unsatisfying. That isn't what I want in a novel, especially, as you say, in something I read for pleasure. I am very much disturbed by the society I live in, and I don't want my reading to be tainted by the persistently pervasive notion that fiction must, willy-nilly, reflect the grimness and horror of what the evening news thrusts in our faces. H'mmm, this feels familiar--we had a lengthy discussion on this issue several months ago on this list. We had to work hard to accept the viewpoints of people who had very different opinions about this matter. I hope we don't get into another long argument here. barbara hume - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:16:23 -0700 (MST) From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: Re: [AML] Michael RITCHEY, _Disoriented_ (Review) > > You [D. michael] and I suffer from the same disease. As SF fans, we've read the best > the genre has to offer. Once you've worshipped at the feet of the > masters, it's very difficult to find solace in the works of lesser > mortals. I've seen too many well-produced plays in my life to ever be > satisfied again with a Road Show. > > Thom Duncan Thom - I'm with you on that - I am the same way - after having read teh best (and worst) SF has to offer - Disoriented left me angry and embittered. However - at the same time - your last comemnt bothered me - i've seen wonderful plays - but I could be satisfied with a road show because I only expect so much from one. Road shows are curious beasts, but they are a genre all their own - so I don't even compare them to professional or even semi-professional community theatre. However - Disoriented was not like a Road show. It is put in the guise of serious Mormon SF - and after haveing been exposed to Orson Scott Card, Dave Wolverton/Farland, M. Shayne Bell, and even Gerald Lund (not as good as the previous, but still fairly good - Lund seems to know his way around SF a bit better than Ritchey, who is still taking cues from the pre-Golden age of SF days). Ritchey's main problem, I've decided, is that he didn't stick with what he does well. I must say he had a few well-plotted action scenes. If he had taken a cue from Edgar Rice Burroughs and decide to only give characterization and moral ponderings the most cursory token attempts and instead stayed focused on what he did well (which was action and a fairly decent scientific premise) he may have done better. But he tried to do things he still needs work on learning how to do - and he tried to do them more often then what he does well. - --Ivan Wolfe - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:48:15 -0700 (MST) From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: Re: [AML] Michael RITCHEY, _Disoriented_ (Review) > > As I said, I haven't read _Disoriented_ but if ends like that, that may > be what Ivan is talking about. > > Thom I meant that i was set up for an ending with some stuff unresolved, and while God doesn't fix everything up in one final climactic send-of (like in The Stand), everything is quickly and suddenly wrapped up as though the author had run out of space. - --Ivan Wolfe - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #245 ******************************