From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #279 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Wednesday, March 14 2001 Volume 01 : Number 279 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:23:11 -0800 (PST) From: William Morris Subject: RE: [AML] Satire - --- Christopher Bigelow wrote: Satire and irony are quite addictive > actually--it's more fun and creative to see the > world through those lenses, rather than be an > earnest, conforming literalist. Growing up in the > age of David Letterman, I breathe sarcasm and > satire, but maybe it gives me spiritual ulcers, I > don't know. Wednesdays are my favorite day of the > week because it's Onion day--but maybe that > delicious satirical website makes my breath smell > bad spiritually. > Me and my siblings would have gone crazy long ago if it weren't for satire. While we tended to shy away from outrightly cynical sarcasm, if we hadn't had the option to poke fun at certain elements of both Mormon culture and post-modern, new agey, diversity (for some) California edu-speak culture, we wouldn't have been able to navigate the twin teen terrors of AP classes and YW/YM activities. I think that the spiritual ulcers only come when you let cynicism and sarcasm envelope every mode of discoures you engage in. I don't read the scriptures in an ironic mode. But anything (cultural more, ideological stance) that in my view is not 'inspired' is bound up with the temporal elements of this existence. Satire is how my family highlight the mingling of scripture (and pure practices/desires) with the doctines of men. And we don't excuse ourselves from it either---self-deprecating humor can be used for evil, but it also can reflect genuine attempts to show that we have our own weaknesses without having to get all mushy about it. Besides, I think straight-forward earnestness sometimes carries with it its own brand of manipulation and cynicism----the "you must swallow what I say because I'm being sweet, honest and plain-spoken" brand of discourse that I encounter both in and out of the church on occasion. I suppose that with satire it's all a matter of degree. I thought that Eric Snider's column was good-humored and lacked corrosive cynicism, but I'm already tainted and so perhaps not the best judge. When my thoughts turn to literature, I realize that I want my Mormon satire to be gentle. While I may make fun of my southern Utahn roots, I remain deeply conflicted about them and am interested in neither sarcastic attacks on Mormon provincialism nor nostalgic glorification of a 'small town Mormonness' now lost to modern (urban) culture and technology. ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:36:37 -0700 From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: Re: [AML] YA lit./_The Diary of Anne Frank_ Lu Ann, I believe a new "expanded" edition of _The Diary of Anne Frank_ was released in the last year or so. Is this the one you are using? I would be interested in reactions. Roy Schmidt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:40:19 -0700 From: "Amy Chamberlain" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire - ----- Original Message ----- Growing up in the age of David Letterman, I breathe sarcasm and satire, but maybe it gives me spiritual ulcers, I don't know. Wednesdays are my favorite day of the week because it's Onion day--but maybe that delicious satirical website makes my breath smell bad spiritually. Chris Bigelow Put me in the category of those who have been raised on the Limberger cheese of irony and the pungent, garlicky flavor of satire. I wouldn't have it any other way (and I try to remember to chew the societal Tic-Tacs of kindness and gentleness before I go out in public). Well put, Chris! Amy - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:09:40 -0700 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Banana Bread and Goat Cheese (was: YA or Not?) Tracie: >I love goat cheese. There is one particularly >luscious kind that starts with a 'g' that I can't remember how to >spell. >The description was 'caramelized goat cheese'. Betcha anything it's a Norwegian goat cheese called Gjeteost. Growing up, = my grandmother always served it, either on lefse (a kind of spongy pocket = bread) or on flatbrod, which is a kind of thin cracker. Loved that stuff. = Then my grandmother would serve it on banana bread and I thought I'd died = and gone to heaven. Best combination of flavors I can think of, the = slightly harsh goat's cheese and the sweetness of banana bread. =20 And so, when I went on my mission, I asked for it. Bananbrod, I called it. = Banana bread. With gjeteost. And people would stare at me, because = Norwegians don't know banana bread at all, and as far as they were = concerned, I was just sticking two words together that aren't related at = all. Like 'fish jello.' Or 'gravel hankie.' Not being terribly bright = at the time, it took me months to finally figure out that banana bread = with goat's cheese was not an actual Norwegian snack, but my own grandmothe= r's idiosyncratic piece of multiculturalism. Very depressing. Except that we are, after all, supposed to be in the world but not of it. = And so, perhaps, we should look at similar unique Mormon+some other = cultural offerings. Like a macrame bong. Or an Elvis needlepoint = sampler. =20 Or something literary. LDS limericks, anyone? Eric Samuelsen - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:46:00 -0700 From: Lee Allred Subject: Re: [AML] Satire One could make the claim that the purportedly first work of Mormon fiction*, Parley P. Pratt's "A Dialogue Between Joseph Smith and the Devil," is satire--in a very broad (and broadside) sense. - --Lee on the road in Knoxville, TN *and Mormon sf, too! - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:18:15 -0700 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Depictions of Christ I do disagree pretty strenuously with the assertion that Jesus Christ = Superstar is an attempt to de-deify Christ. It's nothing of the kind; = quite the contrary. Judas is the protagonist of Superstar, and Judas does = doubt Christ's divinity. But as in the Bible, Judas is wrong. =20 Eric Samuelsen - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:28:11 -0600 From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN Brigham Young Magazine, BYU Alumni Newspaper Merge: BYU Press Release From: BYU Press Release To: Mormon News Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 22:15:00 -0500 Subject: MN Brigham Young Magazine, BYU Alumni Newspaper Merge: BYU Press Release 12Mar01 A3 [From Mormon-News] Brigham Young Magazine, BYU Alumni Newspaper Merge PROVO, UTAH -- In mid-March, Brigham Young Magazine and the BYU Alumni newspaper will join forces to become BYU Magazine. The magazine will retain several elements of each publication and introduce new features, including a customizable e-mail newsletter and a Web site. "I believe that, for the majority of our alumni, it makes most sense to have one clearly recognizable communication vehicle that connects them to the university at large," says John C. Lewis, publisher of the magazine and BYU associate advancement vice president for alumni and external relations. Discussions about the merger began in 1999 and included a combined readership survey in spring 2000. According to the survey, most alumni (68 percent) approved of the merger. Alumni, friends and current students of BYU can expect an issue of BYU Magazine every three months. Inside the magazine, readers will find campus news and research, advice and essay columns and profiles of BYU alumni, students and faculty. Among the new elements are Speaker's Notes, a two-page condensation of a recent BYU devotional or forum address; Works and Progress, articles about faculty research and activities; and Alumni Resources, a guide containing calendars, phone numbers and other information to help alumni gain access to BYU services and activities. In addition to the magazine, BYU has a new monthly customizable e-mail newsletter, MyBYU News, which contains short summaries of university news and events with links to longer articles online. The newsletter is a university-wide effort coordinated by BYU Magazine, and content will come from all over campus. Through the newsletter's registration Web site (mynews.byu.edu) subscribers can choose the kind of information they would like to receive. MyBYU News is available to any interested individual. BYU Magazine can also be found online at magazine.byu.edu. This Web site offers access to the current issue of the magazine, with additional information on selected articles, and includes a searchable archive of past issues. The site also offers e-cards, BYU-related pictures that visitors can e-mail to friends and family. The staff of BYU Magazine and MyBYU News seek to provide insight into campus life, connect alumni and friends to each other and to the university, and offer material that helps readers continue their educational pursuits. "We hope to educate and connect, to bring BYU to our readers," says editor Jeffrey S. McClellan. "After merging objectives and learning from the strengths of each publication," says Lewis, "the resulting publication will be a new generation of university alumni magazine. I firmly believe that it will serve well the interests of the university and he Alumni Association in providing an informative, exciting communication lifeline." The new magazine will begin arriving in readers' homes about March 14. Copies also will be available in distribution racks around BYU campus. The magazine is sent free to all BYU graduates. To update your address or for questions about subscriptions, contact BYU Alumni Records at 801-378-6740, alumni_records@byu.edu, or 264 Alumni House, Provo, UT 84602. - -###- >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:27:39 -0700 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Satire I forgot to mention that. I use the book in my one man show on old Parley. It's a scream, and, yes, very satirical. Thom Lee Allred wrote: > > One could make the claim that the purportedly first work of Mormon > fiction*, Parley P. Pratt's "A Dialogue Between Joseph Smith and the > Devil," is satire--in a very broad (and broadside) sense. > > --Lee > on the road in Knoxville, TN > > *and Mormon sf, too! > > - > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:38:22 -0700 From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] YA lit./_The Diary of Anne Frank_ Roy Schmidt wrote: > I believe a new "expanded" edition of _The Diary of Anne Frank_ was > released in the last year or so. . . ." I just read in today's paper that several "secret" pages from the diary were published for the first time in a new edition that was released Monday. Apparently these pages deal with (what Anne saw as) her parents' loveless marriage and with her own troubled relationship with her mother. They were left out of earlier editions out of respect for her father who was the only member of the family to survive the Holocaust. Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:16:30 -0500 From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: RE: [AML] Banana Bread and Goat Cheese (was: YA or Not?) That's it exactly. I love it with an almost ripe chilled pear. I just ran out of my supply. I'll have to run to the North Market to get some more this week-end. There's a fabulous cheese known as Gjeteost, That's fabulous sliced thin on thin toast. But if you want a real high Give Eric's version a try. Banana bread, gjeteost. It's the most. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:45:06 -0500 From: Tony Markham Subject: Re: [AML] Satire I've always considered Malachi to be speaking sarcastically when he asks, "Will you rob the Lord?" The notion is laughable of some bandit sticking a spear against somebody's back, they turn around, and it's God! And David, that man after God's own heart, bringing in not just the foreskins of the Philistines, but their "Full Members." Would that fall under sarcasm or irony? Then the irony of a carpenter's son being crucified is not just beyond words but darker than anything the human mind could conceive. If Mormons (oops--that is--Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) are uncomfortable with irony and satire, then they need to read more Bible. Tony Markham - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:49:03 -0700 From: "Travis Manning" Subject: Re: [AML] Children's/YA Lit by Mormon Authors >Sharlee's daughter Erica is Anne Frank. (I just had to slip that in.) And >she's great! I've been watching rehearsals and this YA performance is >absolutely wonderful. Okay, so here's the challenge, YA "supporters and >fans." Are you going to come and see the YA play? Marilyn Brown > What is the name and address of the theatre, again? Travis Manning _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:29:19 -0700 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Tony Markham: >Then the irony of a carpenter's son being crucified is not just >beyond words but darker than anything the human mind could conceive. >If Mormons (oops--that is--Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of >Latter-Day Saints) are uncomfortable with irony and satire, then >they need to read more Bible. Excellent point: Real life is full of irony (and by all means, LET'S have a huge argument over the precise meaning of the term "irony"). Irony, sarcasm and satire are all different things, but are often related, and I don't think any of them is inherently un-Christian or bad. Speaking, as we were, of scriptural examples, one of my favorites is Alma 57:10. Helaman is telling of how the Nephites captured a Lamanite city. In this verse, he says: "At length their provisions did arrive, and they were about to enter the city by night. And we, instead of being Lamanties, were Nephites; therefore, we did take them and their provisions." This is great! He's using "Lamanites" as a derisive term -- one that, no doubt, said everything it needed to say to his readers. ("Oh, right," the readers would think. "'Lamanites.' I know how THEY are.") The verse suggests, "Instead of doing what the Lamanites would have done, which would have been to screw up the whole maneuver, we were Nephites and got the job done right." I guess this would fall under the "sarcasm" heading, though it's certainly an example of regionalism, too. (A reader in Palestine would have had no clue what he meant, except from already having read the Book of Mormon.) It was an effective means of communicating, too. With one word -- "Lamanites" -- Helaman conveyed a lot of information. I imagine it being the same as a college student might say, "Don't be such a freshman." I've heard "deacon" used in a similar sense. It doesn't indicate any lack of respect for the priesthood or the office of a deacon. It just means we've had a lot of experience with rambunctious 12-year-old boys, and so have our listeners, who know exactly what we mean when we use the word that way. Eric D. Snider - -- *************************************************** Eric D. Snider www.ericdsnider.com "Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974." - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:31:26 -0700 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: [AML] Humor--Where Did This Originate? I'm sending this bit of humor along partly because some of it is funny, but also because I'm curious where it came from. It was forwarded to me by e-mail, and I know there are a lot of humorists on this list, so I thought maybe someone knew its author. Eric D. Snider Why Did The Chicken Cross The Road? (According to a poll of LDS members) Laman: To usurp the authority of his older brother chickens and to take possession of their coop. J. Golden Kimball: Why the hell else would he cross the road? To get to the other side, dammit! Brigham Young: Because this is the right place in the road. Paul H. Dunn: I remember one time when a chicken wandered into my foxhole on Iwo Jima. . . Thomas: I don't really believe the chicken crossed the road. Noah: Are you sure there weren't two chickens? Lilburn W Boggs: I don't care which side of the road the chicken's on, you have permission to kill it. Elder's quorum president: It was the 31st and he had to get his home teaching done. Relief Society president: That's where the refreshments were. The Doctrine and Covenants: "The duty of a chicken is to cross the road when there is no other poultry present." Mark Hoffman: Would you like to buy the chicken's original diary documenting his crossing of the road? Lamoni's servants: We don't know why it crossed the road; all we know is its wings had been cut off. Martin Harris: I have never denied seeing the chicken cross the road. Temple Square guide: The acoustics are so good you can hear the chicken cross the road from any seat in the Tabernacle. President Merrill J Bateman: I'm not so much concerned that the chicken crossed the road but that its feathers were not knee-length. Gerald Lund: Not only did this chicken cross the road, but his whole family crossed the road as well. The grand, panoramic story of this chicken's family will be told in my soon-to-be-released 36 volume set "The Cluck and the Glory." Lorenzo Snow: As the egg is, the chicken once was; as the chicken is, the egg may become. - -- *************************************************** Eric D. Snider www.ericdsnider.com "Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974." - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:18:33 -0700 From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: RE: [AML] Satire Christopher Bigelow wrote: >It's similar to diet. If you're raised on oatmeal, bread soaked in >milk, traditional roast beef dinners, and the occasional sweet >canned peaches without ever trying anything else, then you have your >reward. If you were raised to have an adventurous pallet or on your >own started seeking the spicier, more challenging stuff in life like >irony and satire, the milk and oatmeal seem pretty boring. Satire >and irony are quite addictive actually--it's more fun and creative >to see the world through those lenses, rather than be an earnest, >conforming literalist. This is a completely false dichotomy, though one that a lot of people fall into. One need not give up literalism to appreciate satire or irony. In fact, one must have a firm grounding in the one to appreciate the other. And I certainly don't think they're esthetic opposites, with literalism as purely non-artistic and uncreative. For me, the best satire rides a razor's edge with literalism, and could not exist were it not for the earnest. I love good satire as much as the next guy (though I think there is a stunning paucity of good satire these days; most of it is just broad, mean-spirited sarcasm masquerading as satire), but a constant diet leaves one just as bored with satire as with a constant diet of any other form. And non-conformity for its own sake still makes one a slave to conformity--just from the other, reactionary side. Here's to expression in the form that best meets the speaker's need--be it literal, satirical, or somewhere in between! Scott Parkin - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:28:26 -0700 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Children's/YA Lit by Mormon Authors Thanks for asking, Travis. It's the Little Brown Theatre, 239 S. Main in Springville. Take Exit 263, go east, stop and Main street and turn right for one and one half blocks. Come! You'll love it! Marilyn Brown - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:51:01 -0700 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] YA lit./_The Diary of Anne Frank_ Thank you, LuAnn! If anyone else is connected with a school at all, would you please tell them about this? Give a note to your eighth grade teacher. This is really an excellent production! Marilyn Brown - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:32:10 -0700 From: Boyd Petersen Subject: [AML] Re: Satire About Utahns not "getting" satire, a quote that I heard recently attributed to Bela Petsco seems appropriate: "People in Utah aren't innocent, but they are ignorant." Eloise Bell's essay "When Nice Ain't So Nice" also comes to mind. I don't think it's because we're (I say "we" because I'm from and live in Utah valley) positive, kindly, or plain-spoken here. In fact, we frequently act quite the opposite, although we often present our positive, kind face while we are thinking our most unkind thoughts. I think one of the reasons we don't get satire is because of a willful ignorance about things that we just don't want to deal with, usually things that challenge us to look at the dark side of ourselves and our culture. - --Boyd Petersen - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:29:28 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] Jesus Christ Superstar (was: Depictions of Christ) "Eric R. Samuelsen" wrote: > I do disagree pretty strenuously with the assertion that Jesus Christ Superstar is an attempt to de-deify Christ. It's nothing of the kind; quite the contrary. Judas is the protagonist of Superstar, and Judas does doubt Christ's divinity. But as in the Bible, Judas is wrong. In an interview with Andrew Lloyd Webber, Tim Rice, or both, (I can't recall), one of them said the main message of the opera was the lyrics in the title song, which clearly questions the divinity of Christ. He complained that religious leaders were being too hard on them, because they were only asking questions. But the song does not ask sincere questions. They ask mocking questions that are intended to belittle the belief in the divinity of Christ... "Did you mean to die like that, was that a mistake or Did you know your messy death would be a record breaker?" Neither choice allows the possibility that his death was part of a divine atonement. It was either a mistake or a grandiose attempt at posthumous fame. He was, after all, Jesus Christ SUPERSTAR. I also disagree that there's any hint in the opera that Judas is the person in the wrong. On the contrary, he is set up as the misunderstood hero who is driven to suicide in the end because he is so misunderstood. Christ himself doubts his divinity and mission as well, but unlike _Last Temptation of Christ_, there is no clearcut message in the end that he is divine after all. He's just a guy who, as Judas says, let things get way out of hand. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:22:24 -0700 From: Steve Subject: Re: [AML] Jesus Christ Superstar on 3/14/01 12:29 AM, D. Michael Martindale at dmichael@wwno.com wrote: > "Did you mean to die like that, was that a mistake or > Did you know your messy death would be a record breaker?" > > Neither choice allows the possibility that his death was part of a > divine atonement. Unless the answer to the first question is, "No," and the answer to the second is, simply, "Yes." > I also disagree that there's any hint in the opera that Judas is the > person in the wrong. On the contrary, he is set up as the misunderstood > hero who is driven to suicide in the end because he is so misunderstood. > Christ himself doubts his divinity and mission as well, but unlike _Last > Temptation of Christ_, there is no clearcut message in the end that he > is divine after all. Judas was definitely the bad guy in the broadway touring company production I saw a couple of years ago at the Capitol Theatre in SLC. And as for a sign of his divinity? During the final song, the body of Christ floated forward off the cross into nothing but air, and then ascended up into the fly space--I interpret that as divinity. :-) Maybe it depends which production you hear/see. Steve - -- Steven Kapp Perry, songwriter and playwright http://www.stevenkappperry.com http://www.playwrightscircle.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:49:29 -0600 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: RE: [AML] Satire I'm not so sure that Mormons are that much less aware of satire, irony, and the like than most other Americans. Getting back to the original post, I've taught freshmen both at BYU and at two schools in southern California (UC Riverside and Riverside Community College). I don't recall BYU freshmen as being particularly worse than my California freshmen at "getting" irony. In fact, it's a notable phenomenon in teaching freshman composition, almost anywhere you go, that one of the hardest things is teaching inexperienced college students that the writers they are looking at may not *mean* what they are *saying*. (Actually, the ones I taught often had trouble even telling the difference between when an author is restating someone else's position to refute it, and the author's own position.) Students must literally be educated to understand and detect irony. This isn't because those students don't use sarcasm, satire, and even irony themselves, but (as I think someone else has already pointed out), the cues to irony tend to be subtle and very community-bound. If you aren't a member of the community, it's very hard to know if something is intended seriously or not. It may be apocryphal, but I know I've heard of someone actually delivering Babbitt's satiric speech to a group of business leaders and having them seriously applaud it. And didn't we just have someone post to the List an account of the person who wrote to the Reader's Digest using "news" accounts from The Onion as the basis for complaining about the Harry Potter stories? I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not because Americans are dumb, either, or even that our culture is unsophisticated--which it very well may be; but I don't think that lack of awareness of literary irony is necessarily good evidence for that. Irony, parody, satire, and even sarcasm are all subversive in some way--using subversive in a technical sense: that is, they subvert a code, message, or text that was originally intended seriously. As such, they tend to be markers for discourse among members of subgroups who do not wholly buy into the discourse of the larger group. Of course, there are times when an entire group may adopt an ironic stance toward something that the same group took seriously in the past--I remember in the book _Random Harvest_, by James Hilton, how a patriotic play that had been performed seriously during World War I in England was still being played a dozen years later as a farce. But the essential point I am trying to make is that irony (and its stronger cousins) isn't generally intended to speak to a large audience. Rather, it's a code to other members of our own small subgroup, signalling (in some way) our dissension from the values (whether moral or esthetic) of the larger group. If we aren't a member of that subgroup, we probably won't "get it"--nor are we intended to get it--though we may well realize that there's something odd going on. A corollary to this is that the characteristic stance of irony, parody, and their like is an assumption of superiority--superiority to their target, even when the target is oneself. (Which makes, many think, the best and healthiest kind of irony of all.) So when one is in the mode of appreciating (or generating) irony or satire, I think it's easy to look down one's nose at those who don't "get it"--such a stance is built into the very practice. In many cases, however, those who don't get it may not lack intelligence, or sophistication, or even a tendency toward irony themselves--all they may lack is a knowledge of our particular community and stance, so they aren't trained to pick up the signals in the irony we generate. Or they may have different values than we do, and therefore be disinclined to buy into our particular ironic stance. After all, irony isn't monolithic. Rather, it's like reflections in a mirror: you can have an infinite number of different reflections, depending on where you place the mirror. I've gone on overlong (I have work waiting for me, which may be one reason why I've spent so long on this...), but I want to finish by making clear that I'm not opposed to irony, satire, and their various cousins. I think they serve a variety of useful functions, not least (when properly directed) that of keeping us from taking ourselves too seriously. But I think that more than most types of discourse, they are "coded" in a way that makes understanding dependent on the possession of specialized knowledge. Which means (among other things) that literature which takes an ironic stance is likely always to have a more limited audience than literature which takes a more straightforward approach. Jonathan Langford Speaking for myself, not the List jlangfor@pressenter.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:12:56 -0700 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Satire Jonathan Langford wrote: > > And didn't we just have someone post > to the List an account of the person who wrote to the Reader's Digest using > "news" accounts from The Onion as the basis for complaining about the Harry > Potter stories? I once delivered a talk in Sacarament as if I were addressing a meeting of the fictional anti-Mormons, in which I attempted, through sarcasm (delivered in my best General Authority imitation), to undermine typical anti-Mormon arguments. (I had C.S. Lewis' _The Screwtape Letters_ in mind while I constructed this talk which I was sure would thrill my listening audience). Judging by the blank looks of everyone as I sat down, my attempt to use sarcasm went over like a lead balloon. Thom - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #279 ******************************