From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #333 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Wednesday, May 23 2001 Volume 01 : Number 333 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:51:10 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher Joseph Smith Project "D. Michael Martindale" wrote: > > William Morris wrote: > > > I think that if I was making the film, I would leave > > the first vision and the translation of the Book of > > Mormon alone---I mean, they'd get referenced somehow > > to set up the opening of the film, but I'd do the bulk > > of the film from, say, Zion's camp to the martyrdom. > > I just thing that that part of the story is too iconic > > to deal with easily. I'm not saying that it's 'too > > sacred' and shouldn't be portrayed for propriety's > > sake or anything like that. Perhaps it's because I > > think that that period of Joseph's life is too firmly > > pre-conceived in people's minds. > > I'm just the opposite. I'd rather concentrate on the beginnings, the > iconic stories, precisely because people have firmly preconceived > notions about them. I'd like to make them less iconic and remind people > that they were real events that really happened. Which probably means > people would accuse me of treating them irreverently, because I didn't > depict them "iconically." In my never-to-be-produced screenplay on Joseph Smith, I battled over this exact thing until ultimately settling on portraying the First Vision (though not the standard one; my scene depicted the earlier accounts of the Vision with angels -- there was no Father and Son saying "Do not join other churches." -- I felt this was historically accurate because all the evidence shows a gradual unfolding of the significance of the Vision. Joseph didn't walk out of the Sacred Grove at the age of 14 with a complete understanding of the nature of God and of other churches, despite what we teach as missionaries.) Since my script's audience all along had been the general public, I struggled with how to make the Joseph Smith story appealing to non-members. Seeing Malcolm X, where Malcolm has a very matter of fact vision of his religions founder convinced me that the best way to do such scenes for non-members is just to do them. At the same time, I skipped the vision of Moroni and jumped from the First Vision to Joseph and Oliver translating the gold plates. Like science fiction where only one amazing thing should happen per story, I believe showing too many visions would weaken the presentation. - -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals - -------------------------- Shameless Plug - ------------------------------- Don't miss the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC! *J. Golden* - a one-man play by James Arrington, starring Marvin Payne *SFX5* - 5 original short science fiction plays *Peculiarities* - a new full-length play by Eric Samuelsen For more information about the Playwrights Circle and our summer festival: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:57:31 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Cinema Gary Davis wrote: > > Thom Duncan wrote of Kieth Merrill: >This is a man who said that the > film "In and Out" is bad because it promotes the gay lifestyle. Nothing > could be further from the truth.< > > Oh pleeeze! Anyone who doesn't recognize that Hollywood has a big time > gay agenda is simply not paying attention. Check out "Victor Victoria", > "My Best Friend's Wedding", "Big Daddy" or any of a dozen TV shows this > past season with major gay characters. Plain and simple, they assault > our values at every turn. That's precisely why we need people like Mitch > Davis and Richard Dutcher. If trying to teach us tolerance for people who have different lifestyles than the majority of Americans is an agenda, then I will agree with you. If you mean to suggest that Hollywood somehow wants us all to turn gay, then I must disagree. We wouldn't be having this discussion, if all those movies were about blacks. But, alas, gays are still a minority it's considered all right to bash. I don't know about Mitch Davis, but I don't remember Richard Dutcher declaring himself a film maker with any other agenda than to make good films within a Mormon perspective. - -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals - -------------------------- Shameless Plug - ------------------------------- Don't miss the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC! *J. Golden* - a one-man play by James Arrington, starring Marvin Payne *SFX5* - 5 original short science fiction plays *Peculiarities* - a new full-length play by Eric Samuelsen For more information about the Playwrights Circle and our summer festival: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:28:15 -0600 From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] Female Writer Wanted > Does anyone else find it fascinating that Richard Dutcher's call for authors > for the _God's Army_ novelization specifies FEMALE? My understanding of the situation is that there will be TWO novels: one a direct novelization of the movie and the other a spin-off novel featuring one of the female missionary as protagonist. I'm pretty sure they already have their writer for the first novel (and, yes, he is male), so it makes sense that this call is for a female, returned-missionary. Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 00:36:09 -0500 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] 2-3 posts/day Folks, The heavy volume is continuing on the List (which--don't get me wrong--is a good thing, in my opinion). I therefore need to advise that I have started once again limiting individual people to roughly 2-3 posts a day. If you have a lot to say--particularly if it's all on the same thread--I advise that you combine your posts into a single message. Thanks for your understanding. Jonathan Langford AML-List Moderator - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:43:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Darlene Young Subject: [AML] Personal News I would like to announce the birth of Jonathan Samuel Young on Sunday, May 20. Also, we close on a house next week and will be proceeding with our move to Pocatello. (This upcoming move is the reason I had to resign from my position as Secretary for AML after only a few months.) Obviously, we've been busy, and I miss participating in all of the great conversations on AML-List. I look forward to checking in again when things calm down. Meanwhile, I miss you guys! ===== Darlene Young __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:21:33 -0700 From: "Katrina Duvalois" Subject: RE: [AML] Female Writer Wanted This is not for a novelization of God's Army, but to the sequel. They want it written from a returned FEMALE missionary because it's the viewpoint of Sister Fronk. I know, because I called. Wish me luck. Katrina D. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:30:08 -0700 From: "Katrina Duvalois" Subject: RE: [AML] Mormon Cinema I'm actually surprised at you all. You don't remember this story very well. What is disgusting is that Mrs. Robinson is a friend of HIS PARENTS. And the daughter does not become his _girlfriend_ until the middle (or end, rather) of the affair. Actually, he ends the affair because he decides he's in love with her daughter after having been coerced into dating by both sets of parents... (a kind of _wouldn't it be cute_ kind of thing for the unknowing spouses/parents). She does not become his fiance' (if you can call it that) until she runs out of the church with him in her wedding dress. Am I the only one that actually SAW it? Beside the point, I think the original comment was that the infamous camera angle on the _nude_ Mrs. Robinson. That was magnificent. Now a Mormon Orson Welles...now that would be something. Or even Frank Capra... Katrina D. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:39:26 -0700 From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Hi Welcome to the list! >I'm looking forward to the discussions on this list. And I hope that at >some point I'll know what I'm talking about well enough to jump in. > >Anna Wight That's never stopped me before...jump in! - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:45:51 -0600 From: Gerald G Enos Subject: Re: [AML] Hi Anna, I've been on the list for over a year now. (I'm not exactly sure how long but it was before my 17 month old was born.) Any way, I am a homemaker and never been published at all. I have several stories that I am working on but none are finished yet. I guess I should consintrate on one until it is done but with five young kids getting any writting done is not easy. (Two of those are under 2. I just had my youngest May 1st.) I also feel out of my league. Most of the time I just lurk. But I am learning and someday I may be able to get into some of the discussions. Konnie Enos ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:37:53 -0400 From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: RE: [AML] Hi Welcome. You should feel right at home. There are quite a few who fit the homemaker description. And even more who are struggling writers. In fact, you've published more than some of us, myself included. We're all pretty good about speaking our minds, though I've heard that some of the more heated discussion is taken to other locations. :o) Jump in. Your opinions are as valid as anyone else's. And, if you aren't knowledgeable about any of the topics, start one that interests you. Tracie - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:13:08 -0600 From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormons as Flawed On Mon, 21 May 2001 11:52:00 -0700 (PDT) William Morris writes: > I would > love to read a novel with a protaganist that is a > pretty darn good and faithful Mormon, but struggles > with some of the 'lesser' issues (it makes me nervous > to try and classify sinnings since all sin can be > repented from) like how to appropriately demonstrate > rightous indignation. Or how to motivate others while > still respecting free agency. Or how to balance > learning and humility. How to fine tune a relatively > rightous live. I want the flaws to be there, but to > be in a minor key. I do think, however, that this > kind of literature is incredibly difficult to write as > compelling drama. [snip] > Anybody have examples of Mormon literature they think > fit my preference? Anybody have this same preference > and have some ideas about how to succesfully capture > it? Since I was brazen enough to like my own play, I'll further my audaciousness by claiming to have written exactly such a novel. I have sent it to five major LDS publishers. One rejected it based on the fact that they don't publish books that "deal primarily with children." This indicates that they didn't read past the first scene; it takes place in a primary class. The book is definitely NOT kid's lit. One rejected it without reading it; not doing fiction at this time. This after I had spoken to the editor at a conference and asked if they were accepting fiction submissions at this time. "Sure. Send it in." Right. The other two rejected it because they couldn't figure out how to market the thing. They liked it; thought it was well written with realistic characters and all that good stuff, they just didn't think they could sell it. The fifth publisher still has it. Has had it for seven months. I'm not counting my chickens. Frankly, for three years plus I have been reading on this list how we all want this kind of book, but, let's face it, the publishers lurking here KNOW that of the between 200 and 300 people on this list -- of which maybe 30 or so are regular posters -- only a portion of them feel the way you and I do. So, that just ain't enough potential buyers for the books we want them to publish. But, as Thom has pointed out recently, it wasn't so long ago that these same publishers were saying, "Mormons don't read fiction." I understand Tyler's point as well, these things take time. And I do admit my book has some "heavy" qualities as one of the rejecters put it. There is some violence. Not much, but the one scene is fairly gruesome. And I go pretty deep into the minds of my POVs. Deep enough that we find out that even the most devout people can harbor despicable thoughts and behaviors without realizing it. Perhaps my friend Dave Wolverton speaks for a majority of readers when he said to me, after reading the book, "I'm not sure I want to look at myself that closely." So, maybe the time isn't right for these kinds of books to get wide publication. I don't know. One of these days I'll pull a Kemp and just publish it myself. Of course, I'll have to get Kenny to show me how that's done, because I'm woefully stupid about the technicalities if such a venture. J. Scott Bronson Member of Playwrights Circle "An Organization of Professionals" www.playwrightscircle.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:30:38 -0600 From: "Barbara R. Hume" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormons as Flawed Rachel >Nunes writes mostly to Mormon women, but only Mormon certain Mormon >women (Mormon feminists, for instance, are probably not going to like >her books). Interesting. I recently twitted Rachel by telling her, "I looked at the end of this novel of yours to see how it came out, and I find that the heroine winds up a pregnant Mormon housewife. You call that a happy ending?" Well, now I'm reading the book, and I find that those three things I mentioned are all exactly what the character needs to make her happy. (Of course, I was always in favor of the Mormon part.) The novel is very well done, full of character conflicts and natural emotions. The characters are flawed Mormons, as we've talked about, and they learn a great deal in the process of suffering for their mistakes. I think it's a fine book. (I can't tell you the name, because for some reason Covenant gives all its romance books names that sound alike. I think that if I were to publish an LDS romance, I'd insist that the title not contain the words "Love," "Promise," or "Forever.") I wouldn't want the life that Rachel gives her characters, but I can still enjoy her books and learn from them. This one is making me think about several important issues, particularly forgiveness and atonement. JoAnn Jolley's novel, "Secrets of the Heart," had a very well-drawn protagonist who was a hard-edged career woman who also learned a lot in the process of suffering for her mistakes. That book made me think about issues like preparing for the next life and not getting drawn into worldliness. As a Mormon feminist, I found both of these authors worth reading. (I just skim over the parts about how wonderful it is to stay home all day with a houseful of kids.) barbara hume Barbara R. Hume Editorial Empress TechVoice, Inc. barbara@techvoice.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:58:50 -0700 From: "Frank Maxwell" Subject: [AML] Standoffish Youth (was: Mormons as Flawed) Responding to me, Jacob Proffitt wrote: > I'd be a little careful about calling our youth cliquish. I'm not > doubting that it can happen, but from my experience, a High Schooler's > "standoffish" tends to equate with "doesn't go to our parties" and "isn't > participating in our activities". In my High School, the LDS members > weren't considered standoffish. I was. The other LDS members went > to the parties and participated in the "activities". They were friends > with each other as well as friends with others. But they weren't > friends with me. Because I was "standoffish". Which is to say, I > wouldn't drink alcohol. And I wouldn't fool around. And I wouldn't > sneak out after curfew (well, except for prom night which turned out > alright but probably shouldn't have). I'm not sure that I'm understanding your story, Jacob. Are you saying that the LDS members in your high school who were *not* standoffish were instead participating with nonmembers in drinking alcohol and fooling around? In which state did you attend high school? Was it a rural, suburban or urban area? > Many activities deemed appropriate by teen peers are directly counter to > gospel standards. Not hanging out with people who drink alcohol can > equal, in many High Schools, not hanging out with non-members. Which > strikes many non-members as, well, holier-than-thou and too-good-for-you > and cliquish and any number of other adjectives designed to make > sinning people feel better about what they are doing. > > Personally, I'd just as soon have my children be considered cliquish than > have them hanging out with certain types of other kids. Not that they > should only hang out with Mormons, but they should certainly be hanging > out only with good kids with strong moral standards who won't pressure > them to drink, see bad movies, or engage in inappropriate physical > relationships. Unfortunately, that standard could easily translate to > "only hanging out with Mormons"--a circumstance I will not blame my > children for. I understand what you're saying. But I wasn't making a generalization that all our youth are cliquish. I was just recounting what was said to me, about LDS youth in one specific high school in one specific unnamed city. The conversation occurred back in the '80s, so I may not be quoting my classmate exactly. However, the reason I believed my classmate's description of LDS kids in her high school as cliquish was because I myself had observed, and experienced, that same phenomenon among LDS young adults in that area. I'm not talking about LDS YA's being standoffish toward non-members. I'm talking about LDS YA's being cliquish and standoffish toward other LDS who were not from that area. I'd noticed it in 2 different wards in that stake. I'd even talked about it in sacrament meeting in the area singles ward a few years before. (I'd asked the congregation to imagine an experiment, in which for 4 weeks in a row, one would stand near the pulpit after sacrament meeting ended, and just watch the people in the chapel as they adjourned to their classes. Would one see the same groups or "clusters" of people every week, sitting together and walking together? [I used the word "cluster" because I thought the word "clique" was too strong.] Would the composition of those "clusters" fluctuate, or would they always consist of the same people? And every week would one see the same individuals here and there, sitting by themselves, who never seemed to be part of any cluster?) So I presumed that what my classmate had observed was real. So what should one do while talking to a nonmember, if she starts telling you about a disappointing or negative experience she's had with a Mormon? My preference is to listen, and try to empathize and understand her story, her point of view, her emotions. If indeed she had an unnecessarily negative experience with a Mormon -- however minor that experience was -- then my act of listening, as a Mormon, to her feelings becomes a gift that I can give her. It's a small step toward putting things right. It's a step toward healing, and reconciliation. (I'm not saying that I'd join her in criticizing or backbiting members of the Church. But it is possible to express sympathy and empathy without saying a judging word about anyone.) Keeping oneself unspotted from the sins of the world (or the high school) is an important principle. So is loving one's neighbor. The trick is being able to follow both principles at the same time. To be friendly without being haughty. To be as well-known for our interpersonal compassion, as for our non-smoking, non-drinking, and non-carousing. Notwithstanding all of the above, I suspect that the tendency toward "cliquishness" or "exclusivity" is a function of socio-economic status. That was my observation after working with LDS YA's in a middle-to-lower class area, and then moving to the upper-to-upper-middle class area I've described. The LDS young adults in the first area were friendlier, and more accepting of and interested in newcomers, than those in the second, more affluent, area. I was very struck by this. I'm not sure why this was, though I have some theories. (To their credit, though, when I talked about this to individuals in the second area, they did not get defensive, but wanted to do the right thing.) Regards, Frank Maxwell - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:19:27 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Mormons as Flawed Chris Grant wrote: > > Your description of the methodology suggests that you are > thinking of _Effective Mormon Families: How They See > Themselves_ by William G. Dyer and Phillip R. Kunz (or, > perhaps, the slightly revised version entitled _10 Critical > Keys for Highly Effective Mormon Families_). Dyer and Kunz > "wrote to selected stake presidents . . . and asked them to > identify fifteen families they felt were `the best families > in their church jurisdiction.'" (p. 3.) > > >Guess what he found out. These pillars of the stake broke > >virtually every stereotype we've come to expect from such > >families. In the majority of cases, for instances, family > >home evening (as an organized lesson) was rare. > > Dyer and Kunz found that 66% of respondents "always or > usually held a weekly family home evening" (p. vii). They > state that this 66% probably only includes those families > holding a "pre-formatted `meeting'" (p. 20). I've never read the book, thought I commented on it. I knew one of the families in the study. They never had family home evening, in even an informal manner. I realize I overstated my remembrance of the statistics. But what I had hoped to show by my comment was not that a specific percentage did not hold family home evenings, but that some did. Okay, it's not the majority, but the fact that *a* percentage (33%) did not hold family home evening as we have been counseled to do - -- and yet were still considered pillars of the Church -- is significant. > >By some, films were enjoyed because of their artistic > >qualities, not because of their ratings. > > Perhaps I have simply overlooked it, but I can't find anywhere > in their book that Dyer and Kunz report these effective families > saying this. The only thing related to movies and ratings I > found is where Dyer mentions that some of the students in the > BYU Stake he presides over say "everyone misses some meetings or > goes to an R-rated movie. It's no big deal". Dyer and Kunz > reply: "While we might agree about . . . the lack of > earthshaking consequences for going to an occasional R-rated > movie, what we do see--very clearly--is that relativity is a > slippery slide. Young people who don't have clear boundaries on > their behavior and who keep waffling about what is or isn't > important can be backed over the edge into serious transgression > in a remarkably brief period of time." (p. 166.) Again, I was probably projecting onto the book the reality in the life of the family I knew was part of the study. They saw R-rated movies, though not as any attempt at disloyalty, but because the films had received good reviews, and they considered themselves connoisseurs of art. > [...] > >If the program (e.g., home teaching, early morning scripture > >study,) didnt' work for a particular family, they replaced it > >with something else. > > Dyer and Kunz report that 93% of these effective families > "always accepted Church jobs" (p. vii). I would imagine that > that includes the job of being a home teacher. Or did you > mean that these effective families stopped letting *their* home > teachers visit *them*? > No, I was lead to understand that, among those surveyed, their efforts at home teaching weren't always perfect. Despite the fact that the real statistics are different than my exaggerated ones doesn't change the very interesting fact that a significant portion of those people we may consider "perfect" actually aren't, and are in reality more like us. - -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals - -------------------------- Shameless Plug - ------------------------------- Don't miss the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC! *J. Golden* - a one-man play by James Arrington, starring Marvin Payne *SFX5* - 5 original short science fiction plays *Peculiarities* - a new full-length play by Eric Samuelsen For more information about the Playwrights Circle and our summer festival: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:49:21 -0700 From: "Frank Maxwell" Subject: [AML] Book of Job (was: Mormons as Flawed) Ivan wrote, citing Job in the Old Testament, as an example of a man to whom the adjective "perfect" is applied: > (Okay - so he complained a lot, but I don't buy the argument he's a > mythical figure, or that the tale is allegorical). You can read my analysis of the arguments for and against Job's historicity at Kurt Neumiller's "LDS Seminar" website, http://www.cybcon.com/%7Ekurtn/exegesis.html specifically at http://www.cybcon.com/~kurtn/ldssemv2n32.txt I try to be fair to both sides of the issue. Regards, Frank Maxwell - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:18:45 -0600 From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] Devil's Advocate On Sun, 20 May 2001 08:45:05 -0600 "D. Michael Martindale" writes: > I have been accused on occasion of being a devil's advocate. So I > decided, since I've been accused of it anyway, I might as well do > some real advocating for the devil... [snip] > Orson Scott Card: "I am the devil." > > D. Michael Martindale: "The devil's making me take over the AML > writers conference for science fiction fans. No wait, that wasn't the > devil, that was Scott Bronson." I just can't get out of that other Scott's shadow. scott bronson - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:31:09 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Hi REWIGHT wrote: > > I've been thoroughly enjoying reading every one's posts the past several > days since I've joined. And I feel completely out of my league here. > > I'm a homemaker and a struggling writer. Struggling, because at this point > I've only been published once - in a Chicken Soup book. I have completed a > novel and sent it off, hoping to get some positive reaction, and I'm in the > process of writing another novel as well as trying to sell several > children's stories, and a few short stories. > > I don't think I'll ever say what the novel is though. What if it did by > some miracle get published? I might have to bear the negative statements by > the critics on this list, for it's no great literary feat, just a story > that possessed me until I told it. If you want to be a serious novelist, start developing a thick skin now. Believe, the day will happen when someone somewhere will read something you've written and hate it. > I'm looking forward to the discussions on this list. And I hope that at > some point I'll know what I'm talking about well enough to jump in. I've never let my ignorance stop me from posting. You shouldn't either. Several times I've had to publicly eat crow because of dumb stuff I've said. - -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals - -------------------------- Shameless Plug - ------------------------------- Don't miss the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC! *J. Golden* - a one-man play by James Arrington, starring Marvin Payne *SFX5* - 5 original short science fiction plays *Peculiarities* - a new full-length play by Eric Samuelsen For more information about the Playwrights Circle and our summer festival: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:34:03 -0500 From: "Rose Green" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormons as Flawed > >But she said that none of them were her friends. The Mormon > >kids were snobbish, she said, and just hung out with each other. I told > >her I was sorry to hear that. >I myself had moved to that general area, >I'd observed a similar > >cliqueishness, or exclusivity, in the LDS young adults who were raised > >there. While teenagers can be cliquish about anything, I think we all need to overcome maybe our natural shyness in some cases to not do this in adulthood. I'm at a large university in Illinois, and a few years ago, I was looking for better housing than where I was. A colleague of mine suggested a community just outside of town as a possibility for a grad student family, but then backed off with, "But no, you wouldn't want to live there. There's this religious group there that only associates with themselves." The religious group is of course a major segment of our ward. (At least one ward member says that the non-LDS people there don't talk to her, either, I must add.) >Not hanging out with people who drink alcohol can equal, >in many High Schools, not hanging out with non-members. Sorry, I can't agree with this. Maybe in some high schools, but "many" is a bit too much. My experience living in the northeast, the south, and the midwest (and meeting my husband's California, non-LDS-friends) is that there are people all over who drink and people all over who don't (okay, I'll grant that most do!), and it doesn't necessarily correspond to who is LDS and who isn't. None of my friends in high school were LDS and while they may not have had any prohibitions against drinking alcohol, none of our activities ever included it. Okay, now to make this related to literature, so that my post doesn't get booted off for irrelevance...Actually, I think it's important. First, as we've said, Mormons are just as flawed as everyone else. We need to get over this fear to admit it. Second, members being scared of the "evil" influences of nonmembers, and nonmembers being scared of the "evil" influences of those strange Mormons, both need to relax and realize that we have a lot in common. While I'm interested in LDS literature produced for ourselves, I'm also highly interested in literature for a national audience that is at least peripherally about us. (Meaning, in a positive sense; not the expose type.) Maybe one reason why this vein is so sparse is because we can't get over this feeling of spiritual isolationism. I don't want to say that our doctrine is or should be watered down to look like everyone else's. I'm fine with being "peculiar" in that regard. But, what we believe and what we do are not always the same things. I think most of us and our neighbors have times when we try to be more than we are. I think there are so many ways we can open ourselves up in literature that build on common concerns of everyone else around us. We don't need to hide our Mormonness, and we don't need to flaunt it. If anyone has any good examples of LDS writers doing this on a national market, I'd be interested. Rose Green _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:06:12 -0600 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormons as Flawed >There's a really interesting article this week in the >Salt Lake "City Weekly" (the alternative/free paper). >It's titled "Clean Cuts", by Scott Renshaw. The >subject is ostensibly "censorship in Utah", but there >is a lot of good material about the challenges of >making art in a very conservative culture. It's >predictably liberal in its approach like most "City >Weekly" articles, but its not obnoxious about it, >unlike most "City Weekly" articles. There are >interviews with Richard Dutcher of "Brigham City" and >Kieth Merrill (who has some things to say about >directing the crucifixion scene in "The Two >Testaments"--how do you make it "appropriate" for >younger viewers?) Also interviewed are the owner of >the video store in American Fork who deletes >objectionable scenes from Hollywood movies; and the >author of "The Landlord", a locally published G-rated >thriller about a serial killer. The article can be >found at: > >http://www.slweekly.com > As a side note, I know Scott Renshaw pretty well. He was a film critic for the Park City paper, whatever it's called, for a while, until it folded last year. So I saw him at the press screenings all the time and hung out with him now and then. He is a very, very good writer, regardless of whether you agree with him, and this City Weekly thing is no exception. I strongly recommend this article, and if you're interested in intelligent film criticism (albeit mostly of films from last year and before, since he's no longer reviewing full-time), visit his site at http://www.inconnect.com/~renshaw . Eric D. Snider - -- *************************************************** Eric D. Snider www.ericdsnider.com "Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974." - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:44:13 -0500 From: "Rose Green" Subject: [AML] Sarah Andrews (Author) A while ago, someone discussed a book by Sarah Andrews, who is apparently not LDS but who deals with the church in at least two books now. I can see why the author would do a mystery in Utah if the main character is a geologist (she goes to a dinosaur symposium), but I find it interesting that she's chosen to keep her character around Salt Lake. It's obvious the character, Em Hansen, doesn't really understand what the church is about (I'd say clueless with regards to religion, actually), but she does know what the standards of the church are all about. I find the whole setting-in-Utah-among-important-Mormon-characters thing unusual. It's not an expose, it's not a conversion story (although there will be much fodder for creating tension if Em really does marry into her boyfriend's extremely active LDs family), it's just a book about Mormons who are just living. Weird. I know it's just a mystery, but I've never read anything that took quite that slant (especially not by a non-Mormon). Anyone know why Andrews would choose to make the capital of Mormondom the setting for her series? Rose Green _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:56:26 -0500 From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] MN New Products: Mormon History and Doctrine: Kent Larsen At 10:27 PM 5/20/01 -0500, Mormon News wrote: >Arise & Sine Forth: Talks from the 2000 Women's Conference >Deseret Book >Book; LDS Publisher; Non-fiction; Mormon Subject and Authors $44.95 > Sounds somewhat tangential to me . . . - -- Ronn! :) - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 23:23:26 -0600 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Female Writer Wanted >At 01:22 PM 5/21/01 -0400, you wrote: >>FEMALE WRITER WANTED. >> >>We (Zion Films / Excel Entertainment) are looking for a female, returned >>missionary writer to do a spin off novelization of "God's Army". Please me >>call ASAP 344-8764. >> >>Thanks! >>Emily Pearson >>Managing Director >>Zion Films > > >Is this legal? I'd be interested in learning how gender is a >"necessary condition of employment" for a writer . . . > >(Just curious. I guess I'm in a contrarian mood this evening . . . ) > They're not looking for an employee. They're looking for someone to write a book. I don't see it being any different from a director saying he wants to audition only women for a particular role, or only African-Americans for another role, or whatever. I'm more curious about what this book is going to be. Do they mean it's going to be "God's Army," retold with sister missionaries, like how Neil Simon did that awful female version of "The Odd Couple"? Curious indeed. Eric D. Snider - -- *************************************************** Eric D. Snider www.ericdsnider.com "Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974." - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #333 ******************************