From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #337 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Monday, May 28 2001 Volume 01 : Number 337 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:02:18 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] WEYLAND, _Ashley and Jen_ (Review) Tracie Laulusa wrote: > I am not defending Weyland's > work per say (Did I spell that right? I've used that expression a thousand > times and don't think I've ever written it.) "per se" > What I will defend is his 'right' to > write whatever he wants in what ever way he wants. He does have a right to write whatever he wants in whatever way he wants. And his publisher has the right to publish it as is. And I have the right to say he's written a lot of stuff for years and hasn't improved, and I think that's sad. But you won't see me picketing Jack Weyland signings. Let him write, let his publisher publish, let his readers fork out their hard-earned cash for the [descriptive deleted], and let me shake my head because I think it's a sorrowful state. > Why is it that, so often > on this list, we want to be able to write and have published the stories we > want to write, but want to deny others the same right? I've never in this discussion said he shouldn't write what he wants to write. I am adamantly opposed to critics telling authors what they should write. That's why I've repeatedly said let Jack keep writing the stories he writes. But the very purpose of the critic is to call an author on _how_ he writes. To tell him when he did poorly and how to do better. I as a critic have every right to say, "Jack, you don't know POV from shinola. Writers should know that. Isn't it about time you learned?" That's a critic's job to do that. > It takes all kinds of writers and all > kinds of stories to reach all kinds of people. Critique his books if you > want. Hold it up to your literary standards in those critiques. But words > like 'ought to' and 'should' and declaring that he has a 'moral obligation' > really don't sit well with me. You're arguing two things here and pretending they're one. I agree, it takes all kinds of writers and all kinds of stories to reach all kinds of people. What it doesn't take is poor writing. His stories will still be his stories and still reach his audience if he wrote them better--not more literarily, not more snobbishly, not more opaque, not with lots of symbolism and forced style thrown in--just better. I think everyone "ought to" try to do better in their chosen profession, not just writers, not just Jack Weyland. I think my hero, Orson Scott Card, "ought to" improve over time too, not just writers I don't like. I would be ashamed of myself if I was offering my writing for sale and never tried to get good at it. I think I have a moral obligation to do the best I can, and make "the best I can" be better over time. I think Jack does too. And all writers. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:06:42 -0500 From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN DUP Collecting Arizona "Honeymoon Trail" Stories for Book: (Phoenix) AZ Republic From: Mark Wright To: Mormon News Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 21:15:00 -0500 Subject: MN DUP Collecting Arizona "Honeymoon Trail" Stories for Book: (Phoenix) AZ Republic 20May01 N6 [From Mormon-News] DUP Collecting Arizona "Honeymoon Trail" Stories for Book PHOENIX, ARIZONA -- Many stories from early Mormon history about the trials, tribulations, and sacrifice of the pioneers are inspirational and even awe-inspiring. Perhaps none more so than the stories of the deeply devoted men and women who traveled the "Honeymoon Trail" from Arizona to St. George, Utah. For a period of approximately 40 years, from 1880 until the early 1900s, when the Mesa, Arizona Temple was completed, hundreds of couples made a long and difficult journey so that they could solemnize their marriages in the St. George Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Today, when people talk about going on a honeymoon, they are typically planning a trip to some resort or other exotic destination for rest, relaxation and romance. Not so for the hardy brides and grooms who traveled through a very inhospitable stretch of desert to reach the St. George Temple, some 400 miles away. Their "honeymoon" included a grueling trek through a barren and hostile desert and even required a water crossing over the Colorado River at Lee's Ferry. Trips along the Honeymoon Trail were typically undertaken in the fall so as to avoid the brutal heat of the Arizona sun. Unfortunately, that would often expose the travelers to the cold snow and bitter winds of the unforgiving Utah winters. The trips were so physically and financially taxing that some couples stayed in Utah for a while to recover their health and earn enough money to return to Arizona. Initially traveling by horse and wagon, improvements in transportation eventually allowed travel along the Honeymoon Trail by train and by automobile. No matter how they traveled, betrothed yet unmarried couples took steps to ensure proper decorum and propriety along the way. These steps included bringing chaperones along and using sacks of grain to separate females from males in the wagons. Now, after many years of being hidden in the journals and family histories of their descendants, the stories of these valiant couples are being brought to light for all to read and enjoy. As part of the celebration of the centennial of the Daughters of Utah Pioneers organization, the East Valley branch from Arizona is gathering the stories and compiling them into a book to be published later this year, prospectively titled "Arizona's Honeymoon Trail." Norma Ricketts, a former newspaper writer and editor of the new book, is very excited about the opportunity to see these fascinating perspectives presented to the audience of today. "This is a unique compilation," said Ricketts, "It's a part of Arizona history that hasn't been told." With more than 150 stories gathered so far, Ricketts will be able to create a compelling portrait of a most unusual commitment to a religious ideal. In addition to publishing the book, the Daughters of Utah Pioneers group will also place a memorial in Mesa's Pioneer Park this fall on Oct. 20, to commemorate the honeymooners and to honor their descendants. Once the stuff of memories, the stories of these brave pioneers will no doubt present an intriguing look into the past for those who read the book. Source: Arizona's 'Honeymoon Trail' (Phoenix) AZ Republic 20May01 N6 http://www.arizonarepublic.com/arizona/articles/0520honey20.html By Barbara Yost: The Arizona Republic Book to detail treks by Mormon pioneers >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:08:49 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] John BENNION, _Falling Toward Heaven_ (Review) Alan Rex Mitchell wrote: > Or do we Mormons have to take everything at face value? If we do, then > perhaps we deserve only Weylund. Don't get me wrong. I think _Falling_ is a well-written book, very worth reading, and I enjoyed reading it. I'm merely saying it didn't affect me much emotionally--it was mainly at the intellectual level--and I gave my reasons why I think that happened. Your book _Angel of the Danube_, on the other hand, did not have a forced human relationship anywhere, and affected me emotionally as well as intellectually. I became emotionally involved in everyone's situations. But I couldn't get emotionally involved in the relationship in _Falling_ because I didn't believe in it. I think museum pieces are worth experiencing. I'd like to have a handy golem around the house. I just won't fall in love with it. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:48:35 -0600 From: "Morgan Adair" Subject: Re: [AML] Marilyn BROWN, _Wine-Dark Sea of Grass_ (Review) >>> dmichael@wwno.com 05/23/01 01:02AM >>> > >I felt like Brown gave us some good insight into how it happened, >showing us how things escalated and why good people did a horrible thing >in a horrible situation that went wrong where they had to make >split-second decisions on what to do about it. You may want to argue >that her answer is inaccurate. But I don't think you can argue that it >was absent. The answer was inadequate. Just before the massacre, John D. Lee is shown = in fear and dread, pleading with God to know if they were doing the right = thing. Near the end of the novel, Lee explains to Elizabeth what happened = at the Meadows, saying "I let it happen because I believed other people--an= d God--wanted our preservation. And I felt that this was the only way it = could be accomplished." How did Lee come to believe this? Why is he so = confident? How could this man, the most heroic figure in the book, = participate in killing innocent and unarmed men, women, and children to = assure their silence, and not have any doubt that they did the right = thing? A question that serious demands more than rationalization and = excuses. MBA - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:03:54 -0600 From: "Tyler Moulton" Subject: Re: [AML] WEYLAND, _Ashley and Jen_ (Review) Terry Jeffress wrote: >>We can gripe all we want about the quality of some Mormon fiction, but = publishers have to limit their offering to the manuscripts they receive = and the further limitation of what they can sell. Covenant had research = that showed 90% of book buyers in Mormon bookstores were LDS housewives. = In most cases, these women were buying a book as a gift for a child or = friend, followed by buying the book for themselves. (Tyler, if you have more recent data, would you mind sharing?)<< Things haven't changed much from what you describe here. That is the = market that makes LDS fiction possible. (Fortunately, editing budgets sound like they've improved since you were = here. We still want the authors to do as much of the rewriting as they = can, but our editors have a little more latitude to assist them through = it.) Tyler - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:35:35 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Mormons as Flawed Christopher Bigelow wrote: > > I noticed the new (June 2001) Ensign has a cover article titled "Setting > Family Standards for Entertainment," written by a layperson. Although the > article says nothing new and bugs with its frequent use of meaningless > Mormonspeak words like "appropriate" and "inappropriate," it does manage to > completely avoid mentioning "R-rated." > > The showcased GA quote is from H. Burke Peterson: "I plead with you to leave > it alone. Stay away from any movie, video, publication, or music--regardless > of its rating--where illicit behavior and expressions are part of the > action." That would, by definition, include the Bible, a "publication" which has illicit behavior (Lot's daughters, for instance) and expressions (yes, the word "pi??" is in the Bible and means exactly what it means today_ as part of the action. - -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals - -------------------------- Shameless Plug - ------------------------------- Don't miss the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC! *J. Golden* - a one-man play by James Arrington, starring Marvin Payne *SFX5* - 5 original short science fiction plays *Peculiarities* - a new full-length play by Eric Samuelsen For more information about the Playwrights Circle and our summer festival: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:29:16 -0600 From: "Nan McCulloch" Subject: [AML] Variety of Writers (was: WEYLAND, _Ashley and Jen_) I look at Jack Weyland, Janice Kapp Perry and Ruth Hale as pioneers in their respective fields. Each has contributed rather successfully to *Mormon Arts* in a very significant way. Each deserves far more respect than he/she receives. Each year the Hale/Orem honors Grandma Hale by presenting one of her plays. _I Came to Your Wedding_ is the current choice. Eric Snider, not being very fond of Ruth Hale plays, gave the play a scathing review with absolutely nothing good to say about it. It is interesting to me, an actor in the play, to greet an appreciative sold out house every night since we opened--and hear the comments from hundreds of people telling me how much they enjoyed the play and how funny they thought it was. These theater goers seem to be reasonably intelligent somewhat sophisticated folks. A Ruth Hale play is a Ruth Hale play. I did my first RHP in Long Beach, California in 1960. These farcical type plays were common in the '50's and '60's. My husband and I are probably as active as any theater goers in the *Valley.* We do Pioneer, Salt Lake Acting Co., SCERA, Castle, Villa, Draper Historic, Desert Star, and Hale Center--just to name a few. We don't compare what we see at Pioneer with Desert Star. We just enjoy/or not each theater experience. Isn't it nice that there is something out there for everyone? Nan Parkinson McCulloch - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:23:49 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Female Writer Wanted REWIGHT wrote: > > > > > Having been present at the birth of my five children, I'm sure I could > > do a fairly credible job. > > Yes, but you can only write from what you witnessed, what she told you, and > what you can imagine. You haven't really experienced child -birth. You've > witnessed it. There's a difference. It's like telling someone who has lost > a child that you know exactly how they feel, when you haven't had the > experience. You can imagine how they feel, and sympathize, but you don't > really know. At that point, I would suggest that it comes down to ability. Sure, a woman may have undergone pregnancy and a man can only imagine. If she, however, is not a good writer, her account may not be as convincing as the imaginative man, whose done research, witnessed it, and is a better writer. > > I don't think that it MUST come from that gender's perspective. I don't > > think we should feel that men can only write about male protagonists. > > But I'm glad that some female writer will get a change to attach herself > > to a project as exciting as this. > > > I think men can write from a female point of view, and women can write from > a males. I've done it, although as of yet I don't know how convincingly. > However, I will admit, that although I can imagine what men might be > thinking, I don't really know. And if the novel being written is about a > female missionary's experience, how does a man know what goes on? He's not > there. He's not even a witness to it. He may see what she does in public, > but he's not going home with her to find out what she does there, or how she > gets along with her companions, or how she feels, or the trials she faces. What if he, say, is a guy like me whose been on a mission himself, has had two daughters go on missions. Isn't it possible that a man could get enough information to write convincingly about the life of a sister missionary. Let's say this male writer does that, and then has a bunch of female returned missionaries read what he wrote, and he finds that they mostly agree. That certainly seems possible. - -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals - -------------------------- Shameless Plug - ------------------------------- Don't miss the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC! *J. Golden* - a one-man play by James Arrington, starring Marvin Payne *SFX5* - 5 original short science fiction plays *Peculiarities* - a new full-length play by Eric Samuelsen For more information about the Playwrights Circle and our summer festival: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:23:27 -0600 From: "Robert Starling" Subject: [AML] Re: WEYLAND, _Ashley and Jen_ (Review) Go Beth! >I suspect it's this way with Jack Weyland's work. People with literary=20= >education see the faults in his writing. People without the education=20 >find great pleasure in his stories.=20 > >Beth Hatch =20 As one of the producers of the upcoming film "Charly, Forever" , based on = Jack's best-selling novel "Charly" (assuming we can find the rest of the = funding), I'm very grateful that probably more than a half a million = readers (140,000 copies x avg 3 readers per copy) have laughed and cried = at the "simplistic" romance between a stuffy BYU returned missionary and = an agnostic, sophisticated New York beauty with a rapier wit and a = disarming smile. I hope they all come to see the movie, and that they = bring all their family, friends, and neighbors. I'm not a literary critic (or even a movie critic), but I know what I = like. And I know that I've bawled my eyes out at the end of reading = Jack's novel several times, and through nine drafts of the screenplay. To = my (feeble) mind, any piece of literature that can impact me (and hundred = of thousands of others) to that extent must have _something_ going for it. I'm with Beth. I'll just appreciate the roses and not count the thorns. Robert Starling - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:18:18 -0500 From: Stephen Goode (by way of Jonathan Langford ) Subject: [AML] Influencing Mormon Culture Influencing Mormon Culture I'm trapped somewhere between being a mainstream, party-line Mormon, and an unconventional crusader against the Mormon culture that seems to me to be backwards and far too entrenched in old ideas that are completely unrelated to doctrine. The difference between doctrinal truths and cultural practices seems obvious to me on almost any point, but I often get an accusatory stare when I deride something that has little to do with tenets of faith and everything to do with a cultural bias. On matters of doctrine, I rarely find myself disagreeing, and when I do, my first and last inclination is to assume that I am in the wrong. I'm not talking about disagreeing on interpretation. I have no fear of doing that, but I also have no problem accepting the words of modern apostles and prophets at face value as being absolutely true, or if not absolutely true, at least binding. I wonder that many Mormons do not see there being a line between culture and doctrine. Those that do cannot seem to define where the line is drawn. As an example of old ideas that I would like to crusade against are the ideas about physical contact between men. How we got from John resting on Jesus' breast and Paul's holy kisses to the arms-length style of modern Mormon men I do not know, but for selfish reasons, I would like to see the culture change. Perhaps the most ridiculous manifestation of this cultural bias is the back-slapping, post-ordinance embraces I see regularly in priesthood meetings. Personally, I feel like a baby being burped on those rare occasions when I get a hug from a Mormon man. I contrast that to a friend I once was having a deep conversation with about his father who had abandoned him as a child. He was not a member of the Church, but was a man of faith and active in another church. As we stood talking, he rapidly became emotional. I don't remember the comment I made, but it evoked a torrent of tears from him as he wrapped his arms around my chest and back and pressed his soggy face against my shoulder. There were no slaps against each other's back, no conscious effort to make sure that all contact points where above the waist, no side-saddled avoidance of a full-length connection. With my penchant for empathy, I began to cry too, and fifteen to twenty minutes later, we separated. The entire right half of my shirt was drenched and his was similarly wetted. Since I have no influence on doctrine at all, my only opportunity is to influence the culture, which seems to me can only be done by cultural means. In a story I've begun, put on hold, begun again, and is now currently on hold, I've tried to challenge a number of cultural attitudes and beliefs. I fear I am taking on too much in one story. Perhaps it is not truly artistic to even have a motive to influence Mormon culture, yet I scoff at people who extol the virtues of pure, unintentioned art. I don't believe there are artists that have risen above agendas. Perhaps I presume too much to want to change our culture, but surely the purpose of literature is not to simply capture culture. If our culture is what it is because our doctrine is what it is, do I really think that when I see the Savior, I'll give him a firm handshake and a heartfelt, "Thank you?" I hope our meeting will be more like with the man who soaked my shirt, that I'll want to linger. I doubt he'll have dirty feet, but I know I'll have enough tears in store to wash them. Rex Goode _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #337 ******************************