From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #402 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Monday, July 23 2001 Volume 01 : Number 402 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:49:04 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Morality and Art Thanks to Jacob's patient and generous post, I've been wracking my brains = to think of books we shouldn't read, or that I shouldn't read. So here's = the question: are there any books that are just flat evil and that we = just flat shouldn't ever read, ever? Trying to think of some, one obvious example is The Turner Diaries. It's = a novel, a favorite of the Klan and the militia right, and the all-time = favorite book of Timothy McVeigh. All my concerns about judging others = vanished when I read that sucker. It's clearly, obviously and intentionall= y racist, and clearly, obviously and intentionally advocates murder. It's = also atrociously written. It may be the worst book ever. It's fairly = pornographic--at least, it includes a graphic sex scene, maybe the worst = written part of the whole book. I suspect that it's exactly what the = Book of Mormon means by the kinds of books that got the Gadiantons going. = =20 I read it, and I'm glad I did. I think you have to read it if you want to = write about the Klan, which I'm kind of interested in doing. I grew up in = Southern Indiana, and I knew people in high school who were in the Klan. = I'd like to write about the Klan in something other than a 'the-bad-guys-or= - -sick-joke-in-a-thriller-or-comedy sense. Okay, so I read it in order to = research a subject. If I had a weakness in that area, if I were prone to = that particular kind of racism, then I probably shouldn't read it. I = think the world would have been a better place had Timothy McVeigh not = read it. =20 I don't think it's possible for a book to be evil, but if it were = possible, this would come as close to qualifying as anything. Well, Mein = Kampf lead to evil, persuaded men to do evil. So did Das Kapital. So, = okay. =20 Except that I've read them all. I've read The Turner Diaries, I've read = Das Kapital in translation and I've read as much of Mein Kampf as I could = stomach, and can't believe that someone had the tenacity and patience to = actually translate it to English. And they didn't do evil to me, at least = that I'm aware of. I'm glad I read them all. I learned a lot from them. = I didn't agree with a single paragraph of Mein Kampf, but I learned a lot = about the ways in wihich an insidious bad idea can lead to other, worse = ideas. Great book about the persuasive process of bad logic. =20 Now these are the three most evil books I can think of, and I've read them = all, and not only don't regret reading them, but am glad I did and think I = learned a lot from them. And so here's my larger point. Our reaction to any work of art, any piece of writing, is governed by = agency. I do not believe that are any books we shouldn't read. But there = are certainly books we shouldn't read in certain ways, with certain = intentions, with certain outcomes. Books can be an occasion for temptation= and sin, just like any conversation or letter or e-mail can be an = occasion for sin. Just like a sacrament meeting talk can become an = occasion for sin. (Aside: at the four theatres run by the Royal Shakespear= e Company, in the men's room, they have condom machines. Apparently, some = people get turned on by seeing Shakespeare performed. Presumably, some of = those same people commit sexual acts outside the bonds of marriage. Does = that mean that seeing excellent performances of Shakespeare's plays = automatically leads people to commit illicit sex acts?) But that doesn't = mean that there are any forms of communication we should avoid. =20 Does that include pornography? Certainly it does. I don't know much = about child pornography, but I know that it can lead to the most horrendous= crimes against children, and I know that there are people who become = experts in it in order to catch those criminals. Can we say this? (I'm = about ready to.) All forms of communication, all art, without exception, = can result, can prompt good. And can also prompt evil, too, if we let it. So let's not focus on what we shouldn't see or read. Let's focus on how = to read or see it. Eric Samuelsen =20 - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 00:40:23 -0600 From: Melissa Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Graphic Novels On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:01:49 -0700 (PDT), William Morris wrote: >One of my Mormon literary interests is considering >forms of writing that may be particularly suited to >capturing Mormon philosophy and culture. I've floated >two of those ideas to the list already---parables and >collaborative writing. Here's the next one: graphic >novels. > >In particular, I think that it would be a fascinating >way of capturing the experience of LDS >missionaries---a way that could enlarge the genre of >the missionary story. Eric Dixon has already cited Scott McCloud's _Understanding Comics_ and _Reinventing Comics_ for engaging, insightful commentary on the potential= of the graphic novel form. I couldn't agree more. One of McCloud's points about the form is that they've been unnaturally tied to the superhero = genre, to the point that it's hard for many people to imagine comics about = anything other than superheroes. Historically, though, almost every genre was represented--crime stories, romances, horror, historical, confessional...it's a medium for telling stories just like movies. Would you expect every movie made today to be a Western, just because lots of early movies were Westerns? Even the traditional superhero story is = being subverted today--take a look at Frank Miller's _The Dark Knight Returns_,= or Alan Moore's _Watchmen_, or _Kingdom Come_ by Alex Ross and...I can't remember the other guy's name. Whew. Now my shameful secret is out--I = was, and still am, a comic book addict. And I'm a GIRL. (It didn't help that= we just saw Unbreakable tonight.) I think we have the elements for Mormon graphic novels, but they haven't been assembled. We already have writers. We already have artists. We = just need to convince them to work together. Neil Gaiman, for instance, = writes very detailed scripts for his work that are a lot like movie scripts; = then he has artists execute his vision. Other writers work differently, but = in many cases it's a collaborative effort. So if you're a writer with an = idea but no artistic talent, maybe you need to pair up with an artist who = doesn't know how to plot a story. But then you have to convince people like Barbara that it's a legitimate literary form. :) (You wouldn't let me get away with saying that romance novels are crutches for women who can't face reality, would you? You'd = tell me that I didn't understand the genre and that I should read some and correct my misapprehension. Strangely enough, I think the romance genre = has been as much maligned as comics, and for similar reasons: each has its = share of hack writers churning out potboilers, each has a negative stereotype among non-readers.) Not that I'm maligning Barbara for what I think is a natural and understandable impression. As they learn to read, kids = progress from picture-heavy books to books whose only illustration is cover art. Comics seem like a regression in that respect. Heaven forbid that ten-year-old kids should still be reading only "picture books," let alone something with a title like "Voltarr the Mutant Killer Space Android from Beyond the Grave." My homeschool curriculum has a little sentence in the section on teaching children to read that says "comic books do NOT count as free reading = time." Graphic novels are not a replacement for text-based stories. They are something different. I can't use myself as an example of "see I read = comics and I'm still literate" because I was reading regular books for years = before I started reading comics, and the concern is that comics don't help = people who are struggling with reading read better any more than watching a lot = of television does. But here's the second stereotype graphic novels have to contend with: Comic books are for kids. It's not true. I really = recommend that everyone try to find a copy of _Maus: A Survivor's Tale_ and its = sequel (_Maus II: and here my troubles began_). These are not kiddie books. = These are adult stories, and powerful ones. I guess when William says that the graphic novel form would be a good = tool to capture the LDS missionary experience, I agree, but it doesn't make a = lot of sense because to my mind ALL subjects are well-served by this format. Any story you can think to tell can be told in comic book form. (Though it's a measure of the power of the superhero stereotype that even I, the avowed addict, didn't consider the possibility of LDS graphic novels.) I think 'missionary comics' are an intriguing idea. Melissa Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:25:46 -0700 (PDT) From: William Morris Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Graphic Novels - --- Barbara Hume wrote: > At 12:01 PM 7/19/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Any comments on graphic > >novels as a form--possibilities and limitations? > > I tend to think of them as works for readers who > don't want to actually > read--as crutches for the semi-literate. Now, this > is just an impression, > and I'm just answering a question! > > barbara hume > Barbara-- Let me try again and see if I can adequately explain why the idea is interesting to me and should be interesting to other literary artists: First off, let me say that I'm not a rabid graphic novel fan, and as I admitted in my initial post, I don't know much about the genre---except that I've been reading articles and reviews in the past couple of years that treat a new batch of graphic novel (emphasis on novel) writers as serious, literary storytellers. If it helps at all, think about the works of William Blake. Actually that may not be a good example because his work, unfortunately, is too often taught without the illustrations, but to get back to my example: The words and illustrations in Blake's works are interdependent. The meaning flows from both. Now, I'm not an expert on Blake, so specific examples are failing to come to mind [Aside: for examples of Blake's work that includes the illustration see http://www.blakearchive.org/main.html]. All I remember is reading _America a Prophecy_ and being inspired by the way the illustrations and text portray the dangers and promises of democracy (as Blake saw them). Now Blake is an unfair example to use because his wild genius is something quite rare (and, to be frank, sometimes quite incoherent), but I think the principle stands. With an epic story that transcends material history (even dimensions--or however you want to explain the notions of the pre-existence and the spirit world), it seems to me like the medium of illustration mixed with text is well-suited to portraying aspects of Mormon culture, history and theology. Plus, Blake was a self-publisher. ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #402 ******************************