From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #414 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Friday, August 3 2001 Volume 01 : Number 414 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 07:30:12 -0700 From: "???n ??e" Subject: Re: [AML] Morality and Art >Except in the case of child pornography, horrendous acts have already been >commited to create it. It doesn't just possible lead someone to do >something. It's already been done. > >Anna Anna, I'm not sure what you mean by, "Except in the case of child pornography..." Rex _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 08:58:53 -0600 From: "Tyler Moulton" Subject: Re: [AML] _Testaments of One Fold and One Shepherd_ >>> Jerry Tyner said >>> The bottom line to myself and my family was by going with the correct = Spirit and with a prayer in our hearts we saw this totally different than = had been expected. The feelings in my heart were real and powerful. But I = went wanting to see a message and could not comment on the art because the = message was so strong and clear. - ------------------------ Just a thought: Is it possible for a film to have obvious imperfections, but draw upon = truths that are so powerfully real to the audience that the effect is = profoundly moving? That was my response to Testaments. I was weeping openly at the end = (something very unusual for me) but not because of the film per se. My = tears were a response to the depiction--however inadequate--of something I = know to be true. My testimony of Christ and the Book of Mormon were the = true antecedents to my feelings--not the film itself. I came away thinking = how surprising--and wonderful--it is that the Spirit can work so powerfully= through such an imperfect medium. And I don't think Keith Merrill (or the brethren) would mind such a = response at all.=20 Tyler - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 02:24:37 -0400 From: "Debra L. Brown" Subject: [AML] Fw: MN New AP Stylebook Still Recommends "Mormon Church": Kent Larsen 31Jul01 US NY NYC N1 New AP Stylebook Still Recommends "Mormon Church" NEW YORK, NEW YORK -- The Associated Press has released the 2001 edition of its stylebook, the guide for word usage followed by a majority of US newspapers, and while the book did make changes in its entry on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it still allows using "Mormon Church" in place of the church's official name. The Church made an issue of the use of its name this past February when Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles gave an interview on the subject to the New York Times. The new entry in the AP stylebook indicates that "Mormon church," "LDS church" and "the Latter-day Saints" are all acceptable uses, but indicates that the official name is preferred in the first reference in "a story dealing primarily with church activities." It also says that church members can be referred to as either "Latter-day Saints" or as "Mormons." But the entry differs from the previous edition, which only suggested the term "Mormon church" in addition to the Church's official name. The previous entry also does not suggest a term for church members. For many years the LDS Church has sought for journalists, LDS Church members and the public to refer to the Church by its official name instead of the familiar term "Mormon Church." In February, the New York Times printed an interview with Elder Oaks as the Church stepped-up efforts to get newspapers to change their policies. The Church also asked that the Church not be called the LDS Church, suggesting instead that "Church of Jesus Christ" be used. However, most media disagreed with the Church. A Salt Lake Tribune report two weeks later indicated that the Associated Press had found the Church's arguments unpersuasive. Norm Goldstein, editor of the AP Stylebook then told the Tribune that the Associated Press would stick with "Mormon" because of clarity, "We've looked at it, and then decided that since they are still generally known as Mormons, we would stay with 'Mormon Church' and then use the full name of the church on second reference." Contacted today by Mormon News, Goldstein indicated that his logic has not changed. Other media have also not complied with the Church's wishes, but most Utah media have stopped using the term "Mormon Church." The Salt Lake Tribune decided in March to use the term "LDS Church" on second reference, rather than the more common "Mormon Church" and instead of the Church-suggested term "Church of Jesus Christ." The Church-owned Deseret News's recent articles follow a similar policy. Mormon News follows the same policy, referring to the Church by its official name near the beginning of an article, and using 'LDS Church' in subsequent references. The website and e-mail list's experimentation with using "Church of Jesus Christ" seemed to cause confusion among readers and drew negative reactions from some readers. Source: AP Notice of new stylebook publication See also: Media Find LDS Name Request Unpersuasive http://www.mormonstoday.com/010309/N1ChurchName02.shtml LDS Church Wants to be Called 'Church of Jesus Christ' http://www.mormonstoday.com/010223/N1ChurchName01.shtml >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 02:29:40 -0400 From: "Debra L. Brown" Subject: [AML] Fw: MN Play About LDS Missionaries in New York Readings: Kent Larsen 30Jul01 A2 Play About LDS Missionaries in New York Readings NEW YORK, NEW YORK -- LDS actor and budding playwright Matt Toronto is hosting two readings of his first full-length play, "Mysterious Ways," hoping to attract a producer. According to Toronto, the play explores the relationship between two LDS missionaries and an atheist with whom their lives become intertwined. The missionaries' encounter with the atheist starts when they tract him out and get in a surprising debate with him on the existence of God, sexuality and the necessity of religion. But while they part in disagreement, subsequent chance encounters make clear, at least to the missionaries, divine purposes that they didn't expect. Toronto is a native of Ann Arbor, Michigan who discovered a love of performing as a youth, starting with a role in the choir in a performance of Leonard Bernstein's Mass. That performance led Toronto on to a series of parts in community theater, but unlike other youth actors, his motivation wasn't driven by his parents. Instead, Toronto had decided he liked the stage, and worked to stay there. Before his senior year of high school, Toronto spent two weeks at the renowned Interlochen Center for the Arts, participating in its program for Michigan state students. There, he met recruiters from the University of Michigan, and after graduation, he attended their musical theater program. Toronto interrupted his studies there to serve a two-year LDS mission to Germany, where he wrote a short theatrical presentation on the lives of famous German LDS Church members, from Karl G. Maeser to the saints that helped the Church survive during World War II. After he returned, Toronto married, finished his education, and moved to New York to pursue his acting career. "Mysterious Ways" was written at least in part to further his career, says Toronto. Competition for work in Musical Theater in New York is fierce, and while Toronto has had more success than most, he hasn't yet reached his potential. Toronto hopes that writing his own plays will give him a little more control over his career, giving him more roles. And, he sincerely believes that "Mysterious Ways" will be worth seeing. The readings of the play will be held on August 7th at 135 West 42nd Street at 7pm and on Saturday, August 11th, 2:30pm at the Manhattan Theatre Source, 177 McDougal, between 8th street and Washington Square North in Greenwich Village. Toronto asks that those attending RSVP to him at matttoronto@hotmail.com so he knows how many people are coming. Source: Mormon News interview with Matt Toronto >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:51:54 -0600 From: Chris Grant Subject: Re: [AML] Editing Literature John Williams wrote: [...] >>(2) How far does one carry this boycott? You don't like the >>fact that Barnes and Nobles sells books on abortion, so you >>don't ever shop there? Eric D. Snider replied: >Apples and oranges, my good friend John Williams. We're >talking about boycotting ONE particular film because it has >content we object to. Terry Jeffress seemed to be arguing that the corrupt part necessarily ruins the whole and to be applying that principle at the level where the part is a movie scene and the whole is the movie. If that is the only level where the principle works (and not, say, at the level where the part is a book promoting abortion and the whole is the bookstore), why does the principle operate that way? Of DVD players, Eric writes: [...] >I believe on some models you actually can program it to play >the movie in a particular sequence -- play chapters 1-20, >then 22-30, for example, skipping the evil chapter 21 -- but >I wouldn't say this is "easily" done. A Pleasant Grove company called Cine-Bit (which may now be defunct) used to market a software-based DVD player that would run on a computer and allow a user to specify what scenes to skip when a DVD was played. Given the huge installed base of VCRs, it will be quite some time until movies are no longer available on videotape; surely in the meantime some company will implement controls like Cine-Bit's on a user-friendly consumer electronics device. Terry L Jeffress writes: [...] >But if you have purchased a movie that contains scenes to >which you object, then you really shouldn't complain when the >producer makes the next movie with two "objectionable" scenes. >In most cases, movies and books exist as an opportunity for >the publishers/producers to make a return on their investment. Michael Medved has argued that Hollywood does not act as it would if it were really trying to maximize profit. Has his claim been refuted? Furthermore, Hollywood is infamous for engaging in curious accounting practices that strain credulity. How confident can I therefore be that my boycott will, in fact, send a signal and not just get lost in the noise? In any case, there are other factors to weigh when making entertainment choices (e.g., Are there things of value in the edited movie?), and I don't see why a desire to send a message should trump any and all other considerations. Chris Grant grant@math.byu.edu - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:28:13 -0600 From: Steve Subject: Re: [AML] Writing About "Good" Mormons on 8/1/01 6:13 PM, Craig Huls at dcraigh@onramp.net wrote: > "Real Life is Stranger than Fiction." I don't know who said it, but I believe > it! It's true, but Fiction, unlike Real Life, has to make sense. Steve - -- skperry@mac.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:19:27 -0700 From: Jerry Tyner Subject: RE: [AML] Sex in Literature There is one other movie that is a personal favorite of mine which has Mel Gibson. It was called Forever Young. To my recollection this had no sex in it and was a very touching story. Jerry Tyner - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:37:07 EDT From: BISH8@aol.com Subject: [AML] Introductions: Paul Bishop I recently join this list at the urging of author BJ Rowley and was please to find another friend, author Lynn Gardner, is also a member. I've had dual careers for the past twenty-five years, both as a detective with the Los Angeles Police Department and as a professional writer. Recently, after fifteen years of investigating sex crimes (the last eight as the supervisor of the West Los Angeles Area Sex Crimes Unit -- yes, the same West Los Angeles Area where all the OJ Simpson hoopla took place), I've now taken over the running of LAPD's West Los Angeles Area Robbery Unit. The change has had its challenges, but I am adapting. In the writing field, my ninth novel Chalk Whispers was published in hardcover by Scribner last year and has recently been published in paperback by Pocket Books. This is the fourth novel in my series featuring Fey Croaker, a hard-bitten, sharp-tongued homicide detective. These are mainstream novels without obvious LDS themes, and do contain (minimal) street language, sexual content, and violence. So much for the disclaimer. I started my writing career in freelance journalism, an area to which I have recently returned with three articles appearing in Writer's Digest magazine this year and two others commissioned for next year. I've also written for episodic television (Diagnosis Murder, Law & Order SVU, etc.) and am currently on the writing staff of two Discovery Channel shows, The New Detectives and Navy SEALs: The Untold Stories. Carrying two full time careers gets tougher the older I get, but retirement from the police department is on the horizon in two to five years (or as soon as my son returns from his mission and finishes his degree at BYU -- where he was a freshman last year). I've been interested in the recent thread on the list relating to selling novels to movies and retaining any kind of control over the finished product. That type of control doesn't exist. If an author is insistent about retaining creative control or tries to have any say over the screenplay, final cut of the movie, etc., the offer from the studio to buy the rights will disappear. I recently sold the rights to one of my early books with the understanding I would write (and be paid for) the first draft of the sceenplay. Once that draft is turned in, however, the studio could very well hire another writer to rewrite my draft or create a second draft from scratch. It is not uncommon for a screenplay to go through ten or more drafts and writers before actually getting made (or not). Writing novels and writing screenplays are very different arts. One of my Writer's Digest articles from earlier this year dealt with the transition from novelist to screenwriter. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to email you a copy. Paul Bishop http://www.BookRadio.com/Bishop - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:54:21 -0700 (PDT) From: William Morris Subject: Re: [AML] Mission of Mormon Letters? Thanks to Terri and Melissa for sharing their decisions in response to my question as to whether anyone has actually backed away from a project because they felt it was leading them in a direction they felt was morally wrong. I haven't faced that decision yet, but I have this idea for a novella, and I'm struggling with the core plot device and wondering if I can actually write the thing in a way that I'll feel morallly pleased with. I think I can but... I also wanted to respond to something Scott wrote: - --- Scott and Marny Parkin > > Many authors want to shut that dialog down to a > single direction--the > author may pontificate to the reader and criticize > anything he wants, > but if the reader responds with criticism of their > work or its > apparent messages, then some horrible moral evil has > occurred and the > poor hapless author is being censored. But censoring > the reader's > thoughts is somehow okay. > > I'm not convinced that literature works under such a > model. > > Many of our great books are comments by one author > on things that > another author had to say. In other words, dialog. > Some of those > responses have been vehement, vitriolic > condemnations. Most of our > major literary movements were an attempt by one > group of people to > comment on the failures or excesses of another > group. > With this post Scott has said much of what I was trying to say with much more clarity than I did. I just want to highlight his point above. My understanding of how literature happens is based on the same process that Scott outlines, and thus formed the background for my question of 'should we.' Should we operate under the same assumptions as the dominate schools of writing (which I labeled Literary and Genre)in American publishing and academia? I also ask the question coming from the point of view of a novice scholar of minor literatures [By the way, welcome to the West Coast, John Williams. It's great to see another comparatist join the list. My training in the field is limited (MA program at SFSU) so I hope you can challenge, support and/or extend my assumptions]. I need to think more about how the field of Mormon literature may be similar or different to other minor literatures, but one thing that is interesting to me is that Mormon writers have been quite successful at breaking in to the American publishing world inasmuch as they, naturally, are willing to play by the rules of that world [And thus the genius of the sci-fi authors who could play by the rules, but still explicitly work with Mormon-tinged themes]. I think this parallels the marginal-but-not status that Mormons have in American culture as a whole. This is a steam of Mormon literature that I hope continues, but I recognize that there are limitations to how the Mormon experience can be portrayed if one has to stick to the conventions of the mainstream publishing world, and so I've become interested in the areas where Mormons can establish difference. Which means I agree with Terry Jeffress when he writes in the 'Editing Literature' thread: "We also have to consider that the Mormon culture must accept an apoclyptic frame of reference. We believe that the world at large and even a good portion of the saints will devolve into a culture more corrupt and vile than Sodom and Gomorrah. So we have to consider how much a Mormon literature really should stand on its own versus drawing from contemporary literature." I share the hope that other list members have expressed that there will continue to be Mormon writers who thrive in many areas along the spectrum. My primary interest, however, is to consider the issue that Terry raises. How much should we (and can we) stand on our own? This is a question that has been central to other minor literatures (Romanian and Modern Greek are the ones I'm most familiar with), and while it is one that is never answered completely, the struggle to answer it led to many fruitful literary movements within those minor literatures. We can't divorce ourselves from contemporary literature, or from our own literary history, or even from the western literary tradition. But I'm curious as to where we can differentiate ourselves. That's why I think that the act by a Mormon writer of making a moral judgement regarding a work rather than letting the tyranny of the narrative, of the form, hold sway is an interesting, important act of resistance and not simply self-censorship. That's not to say that self-censorship is always good, or that it is not it's own form of tyranny (especially when that self-censorship takes place because a writer is shrinking before state-sponsored censorship as happened in Romania), but I see it as a valid response. ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:39:07 -0600 From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: [AML] Finding Book Information (was: Sex in Literature) On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 05:21:07AM -0700, Rex Goode wrote: > When I was a teenager, I read a novel called, _The Viking_. I can't remember > the author. (Is there a place on the net where you can look up information > on old out-of-print novels?) When looking for in-print book information, you should look in Books in Print. More than likely, your local library has a copy and they might even have a subscription to booksinprint.com. (You can get a free trial to booksinprint.com, but a sales person *will* contact you asking you to purchase an annual subscription.) If you cannot look there, then Amazon.com or Barnes and Noble (bn.com) usually have all the books in print in their catalogs. When looking for information about books printed in the United States, you can search the Library of Congress (catalog.loc.gov). This catalog indexes every title registered with the U.S. Copyright office. As part of copyright registration, publishers should send two copies of every title to the Library of Congress, so many books by the smallest publishers or self-publishers never get indexed here. You have to get used to the catalog's somewhat user-unfriendly interface, but you can get a whole lot of information about old and new books. The Library of Congress also limits the number of simultaneous users, so you may have to try several times before you can use the catalog. Also, don't forget to check your local public or university libraries. Most have online catalogs, and your local library can get just about any title through interlibrary loan. You can also try one of the many used book sites like abebooks.com, powells.com, or half.com. These sites often have copies of old titles. In Rex's case, the Library of Congress shows about five titles for "The Viking" and several hundred titles for just "Viking." Of course, it doesn't help that a publisher named Viking puts its name in the title of many of their books: _The Viking Book of Folk Balads_, _The Viking Book of Poetry of the English-Speaking World_, etc. Knowing the approximate year of publication would help. - -- Terry L Jeffress | It is a mistake to think that books have | come to stay. The human race did without | them for thousands of years and may | decide to do without them again. | -- E. M. Forster - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:11:23 -0600 From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: [AML] Audience for Mormon Lit (was: Mission of Mormon Letters?) On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 10:46:49PM -0600, Scott Parkin wrote: > But the fact that Mormons flock so readily to the morality plays > offered by most of Covenant's authors and a fair number of DB's as > well, suggests that it's not the presence of sin or error on the part > of Mormon characters that's the problem. Mormons seem to accept that > willingly enough as long as the characters recognize sin for what it > is and attempt to resolve those problems. Sales statistics show that for sales of LDS fiction titles, an LDS woman buys the book as a gift an not for personal reading. I content that in most cases, these women buy based on trust. They trust that the LDS publisher will provide content that they can feel comfortable giving without having to take the time to read the book first. Now Gerald Lund and Dean Hughes books have made some dent in this trend, but I really haven't seen much overflow from these series into reading other LDS titles. Most of the people that I have talked to about these books have not expressed any interest in reading a fiction title by other LDS authors. They express anticipation while waiting for the next book in the series, but they don't seem to have any interest in filling the void with other LDS titles. > The criticism Richard Dutcher has received shows that there is a > vocal, intolerant segment to our culture. The fact that many Mormons > have gone to see his films and anxiously await the next one is > evidence that our culture may be broader and more accepting than > we've given it credit for. I don't think that you can safely assume that since people have gone to see an LDS movie that those same people would pick up an LDS book and read. You don't have to invest much in a movie: two hours and almost no mental exercise required. Books require a much more significant time investment, and you cannot share the experience simultaneously with friends or family. Our society has become so accustomed to receiving information from audio/video sources that given the choice between a movie and a book, most people will choose a movie. Although, people did choose to see _God's Army_ and _Brigham City_ instead of the other movies from Hollywood. I think this says a lot for Richard Dutcher's future, but, again, I don't think you can translate Richard's success into success in the book market. (We'll have to wait and see how the _God's Army_ spin-off books fare.) > The audiences are out there. We need to help build them by publishing > a broader range of titles and types, and by providing opportunities > for them to state their acceptance of those newer stories. I agree that with 10 million members (even just 5 million English-speaking member) that we should have an audience large enough to support a broad range of publishing opportunities. If you sold a copy of your title to just 0.125% of the saints, you would sell 12500 copies -- an excellent sales figure in this market. The problem then comes to distribution. How do you get your title to the one person in Monroe, Connecticut, or the few people in Melbourne, Australia, or any other person living in an area with low LDS population density. We have to fight more battles than just making sure that good titles exist. Literature, even in the LDS market, must still compete with movies. Also, LDS literature doesn't stand alone, each title gets categorized into other genres which further limits the number of people willing to buy your title. The romance reader probably won't pick up an LDS science fiction title, even if the titles sit next to each other on the shelf at Deseret Book. Literacy, quality, selection, distribution -- problems that combine to make finding a reader difficult. I know I sound somewhat pessimistic, but I think that even if the Mormon audience has come to a place that makes them more open to new ideas from their literature, we have other problems that will interfere with getting texts into the audience's hands. > We shall see... And so we shall. - -- Terry L Jeffress | Why do people always expect authors to | answer questions? I am an author | because I want to ask questions. If I | had answers I'd be a politician. | -- Eugene Ionesco - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:32:41 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: [AML] Cell Phones (was: Something Else) At 11:12 PM 7/30/01 -0500, you wrote: >If you were male, you could wear it on your belt. No, like many other women, I walk along minding my own business and then my purse starts to ring. This is just one of the many ludicrous aspects of our culture, which is SO ripe for parody. Barbara R. Hume barbara@techvoice.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:41:22 -0700 From: "Jeff Savage" Subject: Re: [AML] Mission of Mormon Letters? > Scott Parkin wrote: > I think the issue comes back to what's being published. As you point > out, the only LDS-oriented publishers who are on the average Mormon's > radar screen are Signature, best known for its critical/anti stance > against traditional cultural Mormonism, and a number of small or > niche publishers like Cedar Fort that have a limited acceptance and > impact on the total LDS market. I'm confused by your statement, you say that the only publishers on the average Mormon's radar are the same publishers that have limited acceptance in the LDS market. Do you really believe this? If these are the only publishers on the average Mormon's radar screen. Why aren't they blowing away the big 2.5 in sales? Browse through the average Mormon's bookshelf and I think that most of the LDS titles will be from DB/BC or Covenant. > But to me, the simple existence of a press like Cedar Fort that > publishes a wide variety of explicitly LDS titles that range from > pioneer adventure stories to modern spy thrillers is evidence that > Mormon readers want more than they're getting from the Big 2.5 LDS > publishers. Yes, many of these titles are small-run and a distressing > number of them are author-subsidized, but they sell better than you > might imagine. I agree completely with the your premiss that we need more LDS publishers. It is very distressing to have so few oppurtunities for new LDS authors. But I don't agree with the way you got there. You could just as easily say that the existence of the Arena football league is proof that most sports fans want more than they are getting from the NFL, or in a more inflamitory example, that the existance of the KKK is proof that most Americans want more (or less) than they are getting from our current racial policies. I am not in any way likening any LDS publishers to the KKK, but my point is that there will always be niche publishers. The big publishers cater to the masses and the smaller publishers focus on their niche groups. And every once in a while, hallaluah!, David reaches out and beats Goliath. But you could just as easily say that the fact that these publishers remain small shows something else. Lastly, I want to encourage everyone on this list to keep stretching the limits on the big guys. When I went out to visit with Covevnant a couple of weeks back, I met an author named Jeff Somthing (his last name is not really something, but I can't find their catalogue for the life of me right now,) who has written the first true SF book to be published by Covenant this fall. With my book being their first stab at High-tech (I know more shameless plugs) this is new new genres for them in thre months. Now can we get them to publish a book about a huge, rabid, missionary who goes on a killing spree in a small NE town. Hmmm.... > The audiences are out there. We need to help build them by publishing > a broader range of titles and types, and by providing opportunities > for them to state their acceptance of those newer stories. > > If this sounds like a combination of wishful thinking and > pseudo-manifesto building, I suppose it is. Someone has to state the > challenge and/or raise the possibility to the front of our minds if > it's to be realized. > > I just believe Mormon culture is broader and more adaptable and > accepting than we've given it credit for. > > We shall see... I think that it is happening and will continue to happen. Keep pushing, and buying the types of titles that you want to see. [Jeff Savage] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:46:38 -0600 From: Chris Grant Subject: Re: [AML] Artists vs. Illustrators Thom Duncan writes: [...] >Part of art is work that transcends the ages. A white, Anglo- >Saxon Christ with clean fingernails isn't a work of the ages. You've previously endorsed Dali's Christ (see "http://user.fundy.net/msgr/dali_corpus_hypercubus.htm") and Bloch's Christ (see "http://www.hopegallery.com/cb/index.html") as art. I'm no expert on racial characteristics: What is it about Olsen's Christ that makes him Anglo-Saxon in a way Dali's Christ and Bloch's Christ are not? Chris Grant grant@math.byu.edu - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:19:01 -0600 From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: Re: [AML] Editing Literature On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 11:18:15PM -0600, John Williams wrote: > I think you're comparing making food and reading a book, but I'm > comparing EATING the food and reading the book (writer = chef; > reader = eater). In this scenario the eater makes a selection from the menu (buys a movie or book from the store) and the waiter delivers the chef's creation. (Just like you usually don't see the writer when you buy a book, you probably won't see the chef when you buy your food.) Then you discover that the Spinach and Goat Cheese Flambe also contains corn, to which you have a violent allergy. You can either return the salad uneaten, or you can choose to pick out the corn and eath the rest of the salad. These options represent the choices we have discussed: not purchasing the work because of its content or intentionally consuming the work while consciously avoiding the parts you don't like. > Is there really that big of a difference between a work of art that > you _see_ and a work of art that you _taste_? Not at all -- if you own an original. Once you purchase a work of art, you have the right to do with it as you please. If you were to somehow purchase the Mona Lisa from the Louve, you could choose to burn it. When you purchase the bacon-wrapped fillet mignon, you get an original creation, and you can choose to put catsup or A-1 sauce on it, despite the looks of disgust you'll get from your fellow patrons, the servers, and possibly the chef. Now books differ in a way because you haven't really purchased the original. Instead, you own a single user license. You can use your copy in any way approved by your license. In this case, the local and federal copyright laws define the license. You can write in, mutilate, or burn your copy of the book, but you cannot choose to make a duplicate copy and sell that copy to someone else. > > [snip the Better Homes Cookbook editors remove salt from recipes] > > This is fascinating. Where did you read about this? I own both editions. My earlier copy came in a three-ring binder and many of the pages have come loose, so I bought a bound replacement copy. In the Editor's Note of the new edition, you can read a short explanation about the removal of salt from the recipes. In spite of owning the newer edition, I regularly cook out of the old edition because the salt makes the dishes taste better. An interesting side note about copyright and recipes. You cannot copyright a list of ingredients, only the written instructions for how to combine those ingredients. You can safely take a list of ingredients word-for-word from a cook book, write a new description for how to combine those ingredients, and publish the new recipe in your own collection. - -- Terry L Jeffress | The first thing an unpublished author | should remember is that no one asked him | to write in the first place. With this | firmly in mind, he has no right to | become discouraged just because other | people are being published. | -- John Farrar - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:39:51 -0500 From: "REWIGHT" Subject: Re: [AML] Utah Mormon Culture > > If we can only stop one-upping each other about how much harder our > own lives and problems are. Hi Scott, I agree with you completely on this post. I wasn't trying to say that Utah Mormons have it easy. I was trying to say they have it different. I'm sure the kids there have their trials too. My point being is that it does make a difference whether you have friends that are part of your culture or not. It's harder if everyone around you smokes and drinks, than it is if everyone around you has the same standards and you're going to see them in church. Kids like to part of a group and not everyone has the luxury of having good infulences around them. At one point we lived in a small town (300). The only things that the kids in that town did was drink. My kids didn't participate, and they didn't hang out with anyone. In comparison we live in a bigger town and my kids are socially active. And they still maintain their standards. If they weren't so strong they could have easily joined in with their drinking friends. In the end it's up to the kid. But it is easier if you can hang out with kids who have the same value system. By the way, I love the Mormons in Utah, but I have spoken to some of them, and they really do have no idea that life is different outside of their valley. Unless they've lived somewhere else or served a mission. Anna [Wight] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 05:02:31 -0500 From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Morality and Art At 09:30 AM 8/2/01, you wrote: >>Except in the case of child pornography, horrendous acts have already been >>commited to create it. It doesn't just possible lead someone to do >>something. It's already been done. >> >>Anna > >Anna, I'm not sure what you mean by, "Except in the case of child >pornography..." > >Rex I was confused for awhile, too, until I re-read it as: "Except [that] in the case of child pornography, horrendous acts have already been committed . . . " (_I.e._, not "Horrendous acts have already been committed in all cases except in the case of child pornography . . . ", but "In the specific case of child pornography, horrendous acts have already been committed . . . " I trust that is closer to the original intent of Anna's post. If not, I humbly* stand ready to be corrected . . . (*Quit laughing, all of you who know me. I'm at least _trying_ to be humble . . . ) - --Ronn! :) - --------------------------------------------------------- I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle - --------------------------------------------------------- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #414 ******************************