From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #437 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Wednesday, August 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 437 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:25:39 -0600 From: margaret young Subject: Re: [AML] Joseph Smith Story Most--or at least many members consider _No Man Knows My History_ a dangerous book, I think. When, during an Education Week, Gene England mentioned the contribution Faun Brody had made with that book, several attendees complained, and Gene was never again invited to present at Education week. Gene said to me that he should have known better than to say positive things about Brody at a BYU function, and genuinely regretted being removed from the Education Week roster. (Sometime, I will write a much more lenghty tribute to Gene. He has been much on my mind.) I wonder how the reaction to Todd Compton's _In Sacred Loneliness_ has been. I know that Darius Gray and I were cautioned about using _Mormon Enigma_ (about Emma Smith) as a source for our trilogy because of the way some members might react to it. The best book about Joseph Smith, as far as I'm concerned, is Donna Hill's _The First Mormon_. And it's not easy stuff. Stegner's _The Gathering of Zion_ is also an excellent treatment of Mormon history with some attention paid to Joseph and all that led to his martyrdom. That one has been quite well received, I think--though I suspect most members would rather not know about why William Law, one of Joseph's best friends and a member of the 1st presidency, turned against him. There are certainly Sunday School classes where most members are well-informed of Joseph's life "warts and all," but I am always extremely hesitant to bring up the warts in Sunday School, though I don't hesitate in other environments. Sunday school is not the place to get into controversy, and I simply don't do it.. [Margaret Young] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:44:49 -0600 From: Gerald G Enos Subject: Re: [AML] LDS Booksellers Convention I have read both the Odyssey and the Illiad and still have my copies on my bookself. I'm not sure if they are condenced versions or not, they are paperbacks that I bought because they were required for a college course I was taking at the time. Konnie Enos ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:17:48 -0600 From: Gerald G Enos Subject: Re: [AML] Cliches in Science Fiction Being a Star Trek fan since I was a young girl I can honestly say that they recycle plots from all the show for any subsequent shows. In fact TNG and Voyager followed the same chacterization formula as the original. All three have a strong willed confident captian that is sexually pleasing to aliens that they meet, at least one bridge crew member that is logical and unimotional and a engineer who is extradonarily good at their job. One big difference is that Dr. Crusher is not gruff with some bedside manner problems (of course Dr. Pulaski was some what gruff and she didn't like transporters either). DS-9 was a little more original and didn't have the logical crew member or the gruff doctor but they did resurect some story lines from the previous two shows. Data often got chuckles for saying something that he didn't understand what was funny. Konnie Enos ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:12:22 -0400 From: Tony Markham Subject: Re: [AML] Spiritual Pornography "Eric R. Samuelsen" wrote: > On the subject of tacky Ensign cover photos: > > There's another approach that we can take to the problem of tacky LDS art, one which I recommend highly. > > We can find it funny. > > I saw the cover photo. I subscribe to the Ensign, on the off-chance that someone in the family might want to read it sometime, and I sometimes skim it to see if there's anything interesting in there, and since there usually isn't, I leave it at that. But some expressions of Mormon culture are simply funny. Why not laugh (ruefully, perhaps, since we're in that culture too)? I mean, what good does it do to get all offended? Just raises the ol' blood pressure. Which exactly makes the point of my original post. The Ensign purports to address matters essential to our happiness on earth and our salvation in the eternities. We are supposed to laugh at their treatment of these matters? I submit that this is exactly the deleterious effect that pornography seeks to affect on our psyches--to trivialize our profound spiritual moments. And BTW, next time you're in Cooperstown, remember that Delhi is only an hour away. Just because your branch of the family tree and mine separated 150 years ago, is no reason to avoid each other. There are plenty of valid reasons, mind you, but we'll save those for another day. Tony Markham - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:19:52 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] LDS Booksellers Convention luannstaheli wrote: > > Not only have I read the Odyssey, but I've read the Illiad as well--and not the > condensed versions. Does watching the movie with Kirk Douglas count? - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:03:01 GMT From: cgileadi@emerytelcom.net Subject: Re: [AML] Joseph Smith Story Rob writes: Here's my testimony: The Gospel IS true. Joseph was a prophet. The truth--even the "bad" stuff--can only support this. What may have to change is an individual's concept of what exactly a prophet is. That has always been an interesting question for me: can we accept a flawed prophet? I think of course we can! History tells us that Joseph's behavior re polygamy would appall us today (taking his servants for wives and sleeping with them under Emma's nose but without telling her). So what? Everybody in mortality is growing, and that includes prophets, you, and me. Because it's hard for many of us to accept flaws, we are handicapped in producing really convincing stories, novels, films. . . .It takes courage to look our flaws in the face and still accept who we are. I think it's also a liberating thing to do. Cathy Wilson - --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:12:25 GMT From: cgileadi@emerytelcom.net Subject: Re: [AML] Spiritual Pornography Tony writes: The Ensign purports to address matters essential to our happiness on earth and our salvation in the eternities. We are supposed to laugh at their treatment of these matters? Well. . . we can either laugh or cry. It doesn't do us too much good to get upset, in any case. Think about it--every week we hear people talking seriously about eternal verities in ways that are outrageous. Why not laugh? Doesn't change our conviction about the gospel, and maybe it's kinder to everyone anyhow. :) Cathy - --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:13:55 -0600 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Joseph Smith Story - ---Original Message From: MGA > In short, I don't believe that members are stupid, > unenlightened, etc. But THEY seem to believe that others are, > and so they are overly cautious about books, plays, etc. that > they think OTHERS might be troubled by. This attitude has a > very real effect on the progress of Mormon Art. That is a *very* interesting take on this issue and I think your strongest point. It pin-points what I was thinking about--that the perception of backlash is untested. > What bothers me is that people in positions of authority on > the local level, in their zeal to "protect" the testimonies > of others (as if THEY have anything to do with the existence > of those testimonies in the first place), are out there > telling people NOT to read certain books or see movies made > by devout LDS artists.( Besides Dutcher's WONDERFUL films, > Orson Scott Card's SAINTS comes instantly to mind as an > example of literature.) > > In short, my problem is with what I know is a reality: a > majority of active members seem to be concerned about reading > or seeing something that hasn't been "approved by the > Brethren." (As if the Brethren can--or even want to--be in > the business of "approving" art. You give anecdotal examples and then leap to "majority". *That's* what I dispute. I don't know many people who *haven't* had contact with nutty members who will exercise what I consider to be priestcraft. But just because the experience of hearing a nut is possibly universal doesn't equate to *nuts* being universal. While I'm at it, I should probably define my use of the term "priestcraft". Priestcraft is a peculiarly LDS sin. The phenomenon involves members assuming more authority than they've been given and buttressing that authority with often vague calls to authority. Priestcraft existed in the days of Joseph Smith and continues today--just because the word has fallen out of favor hasn't reduced the actual instance of it. Others may indulge in vague calls on authority, but LDS members have the added weight of assuming the authority of God. As far as it goes, in my experience, the *majority* of LDS members have had enough experience with priestcraft to automatically discount any reference to what "the brethren" have said--if only because "the brethren" is such a vague term in the first place. Jacob Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:20:24 -0600 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Joseph Smith Story - ---Original Message From: Eric R. Samuelsen [snip] > > This is just one issue, plural marriage, bou can't leave it > in and you can't cut it out. A biographer can give a lot > more context, and a lot more detail, and the result might be > Donna Hill's excellent biography of Joseph, which is > meticulous and careful and well written, and, from my > perspective, pretty seriously reductive. She gives lots of > detail, and the details don't add up to a coherent whole. > Drama and literature can sometimes do a better job with > character than biography or history can. But in this case, > the divide is just too huge. Have you ever read Orson Scott Card's "Saints"? I think it stands as one of the better portrayals of Joseph Smith I've read (far better than the Work and the Glory) and doesn't shy at all from Polygamy. In fact, it's one of the better portrayals of *an* instance of Joseph in polygamy that I've ever read--though it's a fictitious one. Of course, it isn't often from Joseph's viewpoint (though I have to give Card props for putting him as viewpoint at all), so maybe it isn't an example of what you're talking about. Still, it's a decent example to follow as an elegant balance in portraying Joseph Smith. And elegant balance is one of the best compliments I know. Jacob Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:41:25 -0600 From: margaret young Subject: Re: [AML] Used LDS Books for Sale? Gee, I happen to have a box full of that particular book in my closet. I'll be in California in October. I'd be glad to bring a copy with me. Katrina Duvalois wrote: > I would really like to participate in something like this. Especially if we > could _swap_ titles! I have been searching for _House Without Walls_ by > Margaret Young but haven't had a lot of luck. Living in CA our thrift > stores don't have much LDS Fiction. I have found some but it's mostly Jack > Weyland (not that there's anything wrong with that), or probably something > _I_ donated! > Katrina Duvalois > > - > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:50:24 -0600 From: Eileen Stringer Subject: Re: [AML] Joseph Smith Story Margaret Young wrote: > I wonder how the reaction to Todd Compton's _In Sacred Loneliness_ has been. I wondered that myself and was almost tempted to purchase the only copy on the shelf at my local Barnes & Noble, but alas, the car needed petrol and the light bill wanted to be paid, so I had to put the book back and resign myself to discover what Todd Compton had to say, for another day. Eileen eileens99@bigplanet.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:44:59 -0600 From: Eileen Stringer Subject: Re: [AML] Joseph Smith Story - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Johnson >hi, I was reading last night orwell's essay "Decline of the English Murder" >and I came across a few lines about JS as one of the prime murderers in >history--thought it was intriguing, as I'd never heard that categorization >before. It was a completely different Joseph Smith. This Joseph Smith resided all his life in Great Britian and did indeed drown his wife in the bathtub. Eileen eileens99@bigplanet.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:04:27 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Fw: MN Bachman Credits Church with Keeping Him Alive: Montreal Canada Gazette Debra L. Brown wrote: > Bachman also credits his membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of > Latter-day Saints for keeping him alive all these years, while > "people my own age and younger are passing away from smoking and > other things. I'm fortunate that I had these rules to live by." Then by what quirk of nature can one explain Keith Richards? Thom - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:04:31 -0600 From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: [AML] Call for Quotes As part of the redesign of the AML website, I want to include a set of rotating quotes relevant to Mormon literature. For example: -- Scriptures -- General authorities' messages about arts and literature (to include prophets, of course) -- Critical statements by LDS scholars -- Statements by LDS artists -- General statements about art in relationship with religion from any source -- Whatever else strikes you as appropriate as an inspirational message relevant to Mormon Letters Please send your quotes directly to me at tjeffress@altavista.net. You may optionally send these to the list, where Jonathan may post them if list volume permits. In sending a quote, please clearly indicate the author and wherever possible please include full bibliographical reference for the quote's source. Also, please consider this invitation open-ended. The new AML site gets generated from a set of scripts that I can easily update, so I can add quotes at any time. - -- Terry L Jeffress | Never trust the artist. Trust the tale. | -- D. H. Lawrence - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:30:33 -0600 From: MGA Subject: Re: [AML] Joseph Smith Story > From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" > > Here are some of the audience problems, as I see them. > > Let's suppose you choose to dramatize Joseph and polygamy. Now, you could > show Joseph marrying old widows, providing for them, suggesting that that's > all plural marriage was. But that wouldn't work, because that's not what > happened. Or you could eliminate plural marriage entirely. It would ignore > an imporant historical fact, but you need to be selective anyway, so okay, we > cut that out. Except it's reductive, and besides, suddenly June 1844 doesn't > make sense anymore. (I mean, why did he destroy the Expositor?) So you could > show Joseph routinely sneaking around at night in Nauvoo to visit his young > and attractive other wives, a practice Emma, uh, disapproved of. That's all > true, so there you go, that's our story. And suddenly, Joseph is a serial > adulterer, and that's also reductive and untrue. But I maintain that there's > absolutely no way on earth to show Joseph in plural marriage as it plural > marriage was understood and taught in the nineteenth century. "It's this > tremendous sacrifice I have to make." Yeah, cry me a river. Or we could have > a scene where Joseph breaks down and cries, and talks to Emma about how sorry > he is, and he'll never do it again. You could make him seriously repentant. > And that also isn't true; that turns out to be reductive and false, as opposed > to reductive but kinda true. > \The problem with presenting Joseph's polygamy lies not with the subject but with modern audiences' ideas about sex, romantic love, etc. I firmly believe that one's reaction to polygamy reveals far more about one's notions of the sex act itself as either inherently good, inherently evil, amoral, etc. The artist trying to dramatize Nauvoo polygamy will have to present to story according to HIS or HER values, and let the audience make of it what they may. ROB [Lauer] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:40:03 -0600 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: Re: [AML] LDS Booksellers Convention Not only have I read the Odyssey, but I've read the Illiad as well--and not the condensed versions. [Luann Staheli] Me, too. And the Odyssey more than once. I had a passion for mythology as a girl, and even created a board game with my sister based on many of the Greek myths. The Odyssey was required reading for my 10th grade English class (in Utah), and I know many friends who were required to read the Illiad in high school (yes, in also in Utah). Don't think we're so backwards culturally. Annette Lyon - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:46:35 -0600 From: MGA Subject: Re: [AML] Joseph Smith Story Scott Bronson gave a magnificent performance as Isaac Hale in the 1982 production of my play DIGGER. He was exactly what I imagined when writing the part. A major theme of the play was the reaction of a parent whose child converts to the Gospel (embodied here in the relationship between Emma Hale and Joseph Smith, and Emma and her father.) I remember all of the performances fondly, but the power of Scott's performance Issac has stayed with me after nearly two decades: especially the final scene when Isaac, learning that Emma is determined to marry Joseph, warns her that he will "make her miserable." Scott completely captured the character's conflcting emotions. DIGGER was my first attempt at playwriting. I haven't looked at the script since retyping it in 1988 for publication in SUNSTONE. Certainly it needs reworking. I would be thrilled to get to work on it if there was a chance someone would produce it. ...and contrary to the idea that a play about Joseph could only appeal to Mormons, let me say that I have given copies of DIGGER to literally DOZENS of non-Mormon playwrights, actors and directors while I lived in New York City in the 1990's. Though I have written much better plays since then, DIGGER was the one that most picked as their favorite. Knowing nothing about Joseph Smith or Mormonism, they saw it as drama about father/daughter relationships, set against a background of folk-magic and religious revivalism. ROB LAUER - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:42:35 -0600 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: [AML] Names of Churches (was: Joseph Smith Story) "Restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." Okay, I'm picky. But RLDS stood for REORGANIZED, not restored. Big difference. Annette Lyon - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #437 ******************************