From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #655 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Thursday, March 21 2002 Volume 01 : Number 655 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:53:24 -0700 (MST) From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: Re: [AML] Trauma and Good Writing > > This reminded me of a quote by one of my favorite authors, Pat Conroy: > "One > > of the greatest gifts you can get as a writer is to be born into an > unhappy > > family." (One of the reasons I love him is he's one of the few people who > > must've come from a family even more messed up than mine.) > > > > I'm curious what everyone thinks. (Maybe this has been discussed before?) Dave Wolverton said in our Creative writing class this semster that if this is why you write, you'll write one or two really good novels and that will be it. You have to find other, more usable reasons for writing. From his class discussions, its obvious his family was a bit crazy, but it isn't the main reason he writes. - --ivan wolfe - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:25:30 -0700 From: "Cathy Wilson" Subject: Re: [AML] Trauma and Good Writing Susan wrote: This reminded me of a quote by one of my favorite authors, Pat Conroy Interesting that I have read Conroy with much delight over the years, then didn't read him for a while. Picked up one of his recent books a few months back, and felt that he was just replaying and rePLAYing his miseries. Move on, man, I thought. I feel that most of us grow up with the miseries of our various griefs, whether the frustrations and abuses are overt or not. The misery can inform our writing, but there comes a time when it's time to move on. If you compare Barbara Kingsolver's _The Bean Trees_ which ends up as a positive story but deals with miserable situations, with her _The Poisonwood Bible_, which is a positive and transcendent work--you'll see what I mean. It's almost like these works were written by different authors. There comes a time when we get it all out of our systems and transcend, move into a bigger place. In _The Poisonwood Bible_ we certainly see our share of abuse, limitation and misery, but as the characters move through and out of it, we begin to see how we can heal and therefore transform experience. I compare that to Conroy who uses the same old plot: building more and more on "Here's how it WAS," till we are overcome with horror. But what we greatly desire instead is transcendence, healing--redemption. Even such silly movies as _Galaxy Quest_ work because of redemption. I think it can become an artistic cheat to horrify and make miserable, over and over again, without offering some transcendence. Cathy (Gileadi) Wilson Editing Etc. 1400 West 2060 North Helper UT 84526 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:45:52 EST From: BonBon353974989@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Good Mormon Lit I happen to several writers who are active in the church. One is my bishop's wife, and two more are myself and my twin sister! BonnieLe Hamilton - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:55:01 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Trauma and Good Writing > >Susan Malmrose wrote: > > > I'm curious what everyone thinks. (Maybe this has been discussed >before?) >Do > > you have to have experienced a lot of emotional trauma to be a good >writer? > I do think you need to have experienced a wide range of emotions, feelings and attitudes, and to have had some cause to ponder life. And perhaps the quickest way to achieve all that is do undergo some trauma. Not the only way, but maybe the most efficient. Eric D. Snider _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:09:48 -0700 From: "Amy Chamberlain" Subject: Re: [AML] Trauma and Good Writing C.S. Lewis made a brilliant (in my opinion) comment on this very subject. In essence, he said that the great advantage of Good is that it can comprehend Evil perfectly, but Evil can never completely comprehend Good. This follows his assertion that Evil is simply Good that has been corrupted or bent. I like this thought because it rings true to me. I don't have to have experienced, say, murder to know what it must be like. I also like it because it contradicts the rather shallow assumption that our society seems to take for granted: that the more crap you've been through, the wiser you must be. Not true. Amy - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:59:21 -0700 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Trauma and Good Writing > Susan Malmrose wrote: > > > I'm curious what everyone thinks. (Maybe this has been discussed before?) > Do > > you have to have experienced a lot of emotional trauma to be a good > writer? > > I think this is a common misconception. The stereotype of the brooding, > temperamental, emotionally-scarred artist has been around for a long time. > But as I've said before, for every Beethoven there is a Bach; for every > Michelangelo a Raphael; and for every Sylvia Plath a Eudora Welty. Just my opinion, but I don't think the percentage is 50-50. I think there are more like, 9 Beetoven's for every Bach. I, for one, could not write, if I lived a more contented life. There was a period in time when I went through counseling. I was incredibly content. I was happy. No frustrations. The only writing I did during that time was signing my name to the checks I gave the counselor. When I realized what was happening to me, I stopped therapy. I decided I would rather be a frustrated, emotionally scarred writer than no writer at all. Thom Duncan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:44:01 -0600 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] re: Not in Sunday School (Comp 2) [MOD: This is a compilation post. By the way, I'd remind people that while some level of response to other people's items are okay, this isn't the place for a full-blown discussion on whether another list member's specific items are correct or not doctrinally. Our topic is the phenomenon of speculations that you don't voice in certain arenas, not whether such speculations are justified/correct. (I'm including some items in this compilation that go beyond this, but I'd like to ask list members to keep it in mind for their future posts on this thread.)] >From aml@hebers.org Tue Mar 19 05:42:37 2002 You definitely cannot say that Adam and Eve committed a sin in partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Everyone knows it was a transgression. Nor can you suggest that ultimately God would have allowed them to partake, had it not been for Satan. You can say that it was God's plan that Satan would convince them to partake. These I learned first-hand recently (plenty of dirty looks from my district pres. who happens to be in my branch). - -Kari Heber - ----------------------------------- >From tlaulusa@core.com Tue Mar 19 05:54:33 2002 Did you ever get a chance to find a copy of Violence Unveiled and read it? Someone else mentioned Rene Girard in a different thread. It is his work that Violence Unveiled is based on. I think you would not be able to bring up many of his explainations about the OT in gospel doctrine. I would do it a disservice to try an summarize and bit-and-piece it here for this discussion, so I won't. I don't think you can discuss much that concludes that the OT is not to be taken literally. At least, I'm not brave enough to do it very often. I have a friend how is something of a Hebrew scholar. He was updating the story of Ehud (in Judges) with some of the archeological discoveries of the last few decades. It becomes a much better story when you know some of the cultural implications (left handed warriors trained in guilds), and the updates in language (from a discovery of clay tablets in some place I think started with an R). The king's private summerhouse becomes the kings private privy, and that easy stroll out the porch becomes a tight squeeze down the waste filled hole of the privy. Very interesting stuff. I'm not sure I would brave the retelling of it unless I was actually teaching the class. It would be a little time consuming for one. Maybe that's true of many things that as a class member you wouldn't bring up. If you were teaching you could present your view first backed up by the views of the Talmages, Widstoes, and Pratts of previous days, or present scholarship, or even just your own wondering. I wonder if......... When a teacher has already adamantly expressed that the flood was universal, and anyone who doesn't believe so is misinformed, lacking faith, and itching for a fight, it is really hard to present a different point of view. Tracie Laulusa - ----------------------------------------------- >From rrhopkins@email.com Tue Mar 19 09:17:21 2002 Eric R. Samuelsen wrote: > Since we began the Old Testament in SS, I've been very interested in discovering what sorts of things are just not Mormon PC; things we may believe and yet can't say in SS. You can't say that there probably wasn't a Flood.< That's because the scriptures are pretty adamant that there was a flood. You can claim that the scriptures simply report what Noah saw, and from his perspective, the flood covered the whole earth, but the scriptures do not purport to be written from Noah's POV. (Genesis, that tells the tale, was written by Moses after a revelation from the Lord.) Personally, I can cite many historical and scientific facts that point to there having been a flood. But it is getting to the point in many circles in the Church where I am laughed at for saying so. > You can't say that Rebekah was being sneaky when she got Esau's blessing pronounced on Jacob's head. Nor can you say that Isaac was pigeheadly wrong and she had to set him straight. < Actually, that's exactly what our Gospel Doctrine teacher did say. > You can say that there's not a particle of evidence suggesting that Cain's curse had anything to do with skin color. But you can't say that Pharoah was cursed as to Priesthood because he was unrighteous.< Again, that's because the scriptures deny it. The passage that tells us that Pharoah was cursed according to the Priesthood also says he WAS righteous. > You can't say that the earth in Noah's day was probably a lot worse than our earth today, or that the wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah probably surpassed our current level of wickedness. No, we're supposed to be the wickedest people ever, ever, the worst time in human history. That proposition just flat doesn't hold up under any sort of historical scrutiny, but never mind. We're the worst.< I'm sure with you on that one. I see the world today as being greatly improved over that time, specifically as it relates to violence as a means for governing and dominating a people. Personally, it appears to me that God has been making a primary effort for the last several thousand years to eliminate violence from human intercourse, and that He's made some darn good progress in that direction in recent times. But here are some other things you can't say: You can't say that the millennium is probably not going to appear any different than any other time period to people outside the Church. Oh no. If you suggest that the laws of physics are going to stay the same, that time is just going to go on in a normal continuum, that the signs of the times aren't going to be very obvious to those who aren't carefully looking for them, you're a heretic. You can't say that Adam and Eve probably could have had children if Eve hadn't partaken of the fruit and they'd stayed in the Garden of Eden. Nothing says they lacked the biological ability to obey that commandment, yet, because Eve points out that, if Adam hadn't joined her in eating the fruit, they wouldn't have had children, everyone assumes that, even if she hadn't partaken of the fruit, they still would not have had children. I may think of more, but those are a couple of my pet peeves. Richard Hopkins - --------------------------------------- >From iaw2@email.byu.edu Tue Mar 19 09:45:58 2002 Eric Samuelson wrote: > You can't say that there probably wasn't a Flood. James E. Talmage = > thought there wasn't a Flood. Widstoe, Roberts, Orson Pratt and several = > other GA's thought there wasn't a Flood. But you can't say that in SS. That is a bit of a simplification - they thought there wasn't a flood in the sense that everything was flooded, but they still believed that the earth was baptized, so they say that at the very least - everything on earth was covered with water at one point, even if it was a shallow layer in most places. The problem here is trying to distill very complex views as simple platitudes. David O McKay and John A. Widstoe both expressed beleif in evolution - but at the same time they made it a clearly divenely directed evolution - ID (intelligent design) theory basically, which is anathema to most evolutionists. > You can't say that the earth in Noah's day was probably a lot worse than = > our earth today, or that the wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah probably = > surpassed our current level of wickedness. No, we're supposed to be the = > wickedest people ever, ever, the worst time in human history. That = > proposition just flat doesn't hold up under any sort of historical = > scrutiny, but never mind. We're the worst. On this one, I'm not sure since I've said these things when I've taught and never been rebuked. - --Ivan Wolfe - -------------------------------------- >From margaret_young@byu.edu Tue Mar 19 09:46:00 2002 Well, I've quit believing long ago in the list of what I can't say. I freely suggested in our SS class that not only Rebekah but Jacob were being sneaky (the word I used was "deceptive") in securing the birthright blessing for Jacob--and that Jacob got his on his wedding night. As far as other things like floods, etc., I'm much more interested in the spiritual principles behind the scriptural events. I believe a whole lot of things in the scriptures are figurative--or at least written from a limited perspective and a pretty narrow (culturally) world view. I haven't read Scott Card's book on Rebekah, but I'd be interested in how he handled her obvious deception of her husband. [Margaret Young] - ----------------------------------- >From barbara@techvoice.com Tue Mar 19 10:26:10 2002 At 11:04 AM 3/18/02, you wrote: >You can't say that there probably wasn't a Flood. James E. Talmage >thought there wasn't a Flood. Widstoe, Roberts, Orson Pratt and several >other GA's thought there wasn't a Flood. But you can't say that in >SS. You certainly can't bring up geological evidence for there not being >a flood, or any other scientific evidence relating to the amount of water >available to flood the earth. Really? Since there are references to a great flood in several religious traditions in that part of the world, I thought that was an indicator that something of the sort really occurred. I never thought it covered the whole planet, but just the world that Noah knew. The trouble with this sort of debate is that it leads you to wonder just where the dividing line is between Biblical myth and Biblical history. That can drive you nuts. My Sunday School teacher brought up her belief that, although there is clearly such a thing as an evolutionary process, Adam and Eve were brought here from another world. That set up a heated enough discussion even to wake up the snoozers on the back row. That's part of the fun of studying the Old Testament. Barbara R. Hume Provo, Utah - ----------------------------------------------- >From parisander@freeport.com Tue Mar 19 20:34:09 2002 There are a lot of things I can't say in Sunday school and I can't say in priesthood meeting either. Although, I have sometimes, and some of those times I end up making friends and other times I am referred to as "Brother Beelzebub." I would tell what topics get me in trouble, but the moderator seems to have the same reactions. (To be fair though, I have to say the day after I am censored I usually come to agree with the moderator. I can be a little too heavy or "inappropriate" at times. Gee, I wonder if that's my problem at priesthood meeting?) Paris Anderson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:55:43 -0700 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Literary Theory/BYU English Dept. The link is http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/17/education/17ENGL.html (the month is 03, not 3). It *is* an interesting story. No wonder we can't discuss canon when even the hiring of professors creates so much contention. Jacob Proffitt > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of R.W. Rasband > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 4:18 PM > To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: [AML] Literary Theory/BYU English Dept. > > > Under the heading "It could be worse", check out this account > of the "civil wars" in the Columbia University English department: > http://www.nytimes.com/2002/3/17/education/17ENGL.html Can't we all just get along? ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:44:32 GMT From: "pdhunter" Subject: [AML] Box Office Report March 15 Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors Weekend of March 15, 2002 Weekend Box Office Report (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross) Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com HEAVEN OPENS WIDE: Excel Entertainment, the distributors of "The Other Side of Heaven," made headlines by announcing that Mitch Davis' movie about Elder John H. Groberg's mission to Tonga would open nationwide on April 12th, 2002. This marks the first time that an LDS-themed movie made by Latter-day Saints will be in wide release. Dutcher's "God's Army" and "Brigham City" (also distributed by Excel) were given a platform release -- only playing in select regions on a limited number of screens at any one time. The highest number of theaters showing "God's Army" concurrently was 49. For "Brigham City", the number was 51. So far, the highest number of theaters showing "The Other Side of Heaven" has been 43. But with a nationwide release, the figure could easily be in the hundreds. If the movie does even moderately well in wide release, it could easily earn more than $1 million in additional ticket sales, in addition to its $1.74 million so far. This would put it ahead of the $2.6 million total box office revenue earned by "God's Army." The budget for "God's Army" was $300,000; the budget for "Heaven" was $7 million. So unless "Heaven" far exceeds expectations, "God's Army" will still remain the ROI (return on investment) champ. In other "Other Side of Heaven" news, a half-hour special about the making of the movie, featuring interviews with the stars and filmmakers and behind-the-scenes footage, aired on KBYU this week. Let's hope they include this on the DVD. AFRICA IMAX: A new IMAX film, "With Kilimanjaro: To the Roof of Africa," opened this weekend in three theaters (including Houston and Fort Worth). The film features a musical score by Latter-day Saint composer Alan Williams (Soul Assassin; The Princess and the Pea; Who Gets the House?; Island of the Sharks; Angels in the Attic; Mark Twain's America; Amazon; Clubhouse Detectives, etc.). Dallas Morning News Jane Sumner critic gave "Kilimanjaro" an A-. She wrote: "With 'Kilimanjaro: To the Roof of Africa', filmmaker David Breashears takes us through five climate zones and ecosystems to the shining top of the world. This latest adventure film from the maker of 'Everest' is more than a large-format travel movie. Sublimely photographed, it's almost a religious experience. Led by mountain guide Jacob Kyungai, 50, a team of trekkers ranging in age from 12 to 64 make their way from the mud of the rainforest at its foot to the ice of glaciers at its peak. It's like going from the Amazon to the Arctic, and nearly half the 15,000 people who each year try to make it to the top fail. This could have been just another hiking movie, but Mr. Breashears knows how to make us feel as if we're there in the thin air of what often looks like a sci-fi movie set or, as the 12-year-old says, like Dr. Seuss land." SATURN AWARD NOMINATIONS: Saturn award nominations were announced this week, honoring the year's top achievements in genre television and film. "Joy Ride" (starring Mormon actor Paul Walker), and "Mulholland Drive" (co-written and co-produced by Mormon filmmaker Joyce Eliason), were both nominated for Best Action/Adventure/Thriller Film. ("Mulholland Drive" also picked up nominations in the Best Actress category for Naomi Watts, Best Director category for David Lynch, Best Music and Best DVD Special Edition Release.) "Shrek" (originally produced by John Garbett, the Latter-day Saint producer of "The Other Side of Heaven") was nominated for Best Fantasy Film. ("Shrek" also received nominations for Best Supporting Actor for Eddie Murphy, and Best Music.) "Jack and the Beanstalk - The Real Story", which starred Mormon actor Matthew Modine as "Jack," was nominated for Best Single TelevisionPresentation. "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" was nominated for Best DVD Classic Film Release. ("Snow White" stars Mormon actor Moroni Olsen as the voice of the Magic Mirror and features an Academy Award-nominated musical score by Mormon composer Leigh Harline). NELEH WATCH: The 3rd episode of "Survivor: Marquesas" did not feature Layton, Utah resident Neleh Dennis as prominently as last week's unforgettable fish-fest. But Neleh's team "Rotu" won both its challenges this week, making its total challenge record 5 wins, and zero losses. Host Jeff Probst informed Maraamu that it had the biggest losing streak in "Survivor" history. Maybe it has something to do with all the infighting and back-stabbing going on in the Maraamu camp, while the Rotu atmosphere is as harmonious as a seminary video. [If table below doesn't line up properly, try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as courier - Ed.] Natl Film Title Weekend Gross Rank LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor Total Gross Theaters Days - --- ----------------------------- ----------- ----- ---- 31 Ocean's Eleven $267,623 311 101 LDS characters: Malloy twins 182,337,490 46 The Other Side of Heaven 60,088 34 94 Mitch Davis (writer/director) 1,784,587 John H. Groberg (author/character) Gerald Molen, John Garbett (producers) 50 Mulholland Drive 35,095 30 161 Joyce Eliason (producer/writer) 7,077,663 51 The Singles Ward 31,958 12 45 Kurt Hale (writer/director) 343,083 John E. Moyer (writer) Dave Hunter (producer) Cody Hale (composer) Ryan Little (cinematographer) Actors: Will Swenson, Connie Young, Daryn Tufts, Kirby Heyborne, Michael Birkeland, Robert Swenson, Lincoln Hoppe, Gretchen Whalley, Sedra Santos, etc. 52 Behind Enemy Lines 30,657 72 108 David Veloz (screenwriter) 58,821,129 78 Galapagos 5,604 3 871 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 12,401,869 86 China: The Panda Adventure 4,557 5 234 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 2,003,812 92 Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man 3,459 2 682 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 13,119,264 99 Mark Twain's America 3D 2,674 1 1354 Alan Williams (composer) 2,173,898 110 Island of the Sharks 1,296 2 1053 Alan Williams (composer) 10,654,745 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:59:19 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: RE: [AML] _We Were Soldiers_ > > ___ Robert ___ >| I think that Randall Wallace is one of the best screenwriters >| of the past few decades. Clark Goble: > >Ouch. The man writes dialog almost as poorly as George Lucas. I don't >think I could ever call someone with that stilted of prose "one of the best >screenwriters." > > Indeed. To give him that title, we'd have to ignore the trite, cliched, over-worked dialogue just in "We Were Soldiers": "Tell my life I love her" (spoken by a dying soldier -- and TWO different soldiers say this) "I'm glad to be able to die for my country" (spoken by another dying soldier, who I assume didn't have a wife to pass his love to) "Daddy, what's a war?" (spoken by an adorable but worried little girl) Eric D. Snider _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:59:30 -0800 From: harlowclark@juno.com Subject: Re: [AML] _We Were Soldiers_ On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 Linda Hyde BroHam000@aol.com writes: > > This puts me in mind to pose a question: As concerns really graphically > violent films, with albeit good messages: has anyone ever considered > the applicability of Mormon's solemn promise to Moroni not to "harrow > up your mind" with a (graphic) description of all the horrors he had > seen and experienced? Linda goes on to wonder if the audience might not be overcome by the horror of the graphic violence. It's a good question to ask, reminds me of the comment Thomas Harris made in his forward to a new printing of Red Dragon where he talks about how Hannibal Lecter came to be. Lecter started, I think, with two images in Harris's mind, a "Please leave a message" recording by someone who had been murdered, and a man who would have to go into hospital for the criminally insane (or somewhere like it) and interview a murderer. When he started considering whether to tell the story he knew it could only be told at great cost to some of the characters. A dilemma, do you create characters you love, knowing that if you create them they will suffer terribly? > Sometimes I think people think they have to see the gritty harsh > "reality" of things (Schindler's List, for example) in order to > prepare themselves to really stand up to evil. This is an intriguing idea, and I like the example of the good king in LOTR who's overcome by the power of Sauron's crystal ball, which acts like the mirror in _Hairy Potty_. Spenser (spelled with an S, like the detective) also explores theme in _The Faerie Queene_, where one character warns another, who sees her reflection in a pond for the first time, that what she's seeing isn't real. Orson Scotchguard plays around with it in his fairy tale for adults, _Magic Mirror_. There is another reason, though, besides preparing oneself to "stand up to evil" why someone might want gritty, harsh art. We long to have our experience validated. I admire greatly that Mormon acknowledges the harrowing horror of war. He honored a warrior by naming his son Moroni, but commanded his readers not to go to war unless God directly told them to. I suspect Mormon didn't want to harrow up his son because Moroni already knew what war was like. I'm not sure 20th-21st century American culture really understands how awful war is. Paul Fussell has a lot to say in _Wartime_ about the need for graphic description of the horrors of war. A repeated theme in the book is the bitterness of his fellow WWII soldiers who knew that war was so horrible that the powers who control how history is told, museums, colleges, publishers, official government histories, would not allow the full horror to be displayed. Consider one brief example. The Elders Quorum (or Sisters Quorum) President stands up at the beginning of Priest-a-LeafHood Society meeting and apologizes for the lack of any Teachings of HBL manuals. "Due to a SNAFU they didn't get picked up from the distribution center." Very few people would bat an eyelid at that comment. You could hear it in the temple. And the acronym is common enough that even if you don't know it stands for Situation Normal, All Fouled Up you get its general sense. Thing is, the soldiers who coined SNAFU and TARFU and FUBAR and FUBB didn't mean 'fouled up.' They deliberately coined phrases that couldn't be said over the pulpit, or anywhere else in church, vile, disgusting phrases that expressed their contempt for the military and the war, that expressed their verbal subversion of the lies necessary to get people to enlist in a military and go off and fight and die in a war. (Dean Hughes deals with such lies brilliantly in _Since You Went Away_ where J. Reuben Clark, Jr. warns Alex Thomas not to go off to war, but he joins up anyway, under a promise that he'll be able to use his German skills in intelligence work, and he ends up in combat instead.) Fussell would probably look at my example above and say that it wouldn't surprise the soldiers that their acronym would end up being spoken in church, that that simply illustrated the very tidying up of their experience that they felt driven to subvert through obscene expressions and acronyms. Fussell says that what this meant psychologically was that the soldiers knew they would never be known, that their culture didn't want to know accurately their experience in all its horror and depth, would rather deny the harsh, gritty terror, and boredom, of their experience. (That is, war is terrifying and boring, not exciting.) Several chapters of Wartime were first published in The Atlantic, and can be found at www.theatlantic.com. Harlow Clark (who has been intrigued by the title _We Were Soldiers Once . . . And Young_ since seeing it in the biblio for Paul Hendrickson's _The Living and the Dead: Robert McNamara and Five Lives of a Lost War_--now there's a harrowing book for you.) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:02:10 -0500 From: "robert lauer" Subject: RE: [AML] _We Were Soldiers_ On Randall Wallace: > ROB. LAUER: >| I think that Randall Wallace is one of the best screenwriters >| of the past few decades. CLARK GOBLE: >Ouch. The man writes dialog almost as poorly as George Lucas. I don't >think I could ever call someone with that stilted of prose "one of the best >screenwriters." ROB. LAUER: What you call stilted I call a style element. One could say that Bronte's dialogue in WUTHERING HEIGHTS is stilted; that Tolkien's is stilted; that Shakespeare's is stilted; etc. etc. I think that opinion says more about current American culture and its slaughter of language than it does of the dialogue itself. William Wallace's battle field speech in BRAVEHEART is great screenwriting! (Notice how it has been lampooned--always a compliment in today's culture--in a number of TV commercials these past six years.)It is very short, very simple. But it also has a firm philosophic foundation, and the emotional context is connected to all the events in the plot up until that time. As the film critic for the NEW YORK TIMES pointed out, this speech echoes Henry's pre-battle speech in HENRY V--and dramatically it is just as effective. Also powerful is the scene in which Robert the Bruce confronts his father after he betrays William Wallace. When the father tries to comfort his son by saying, "All men betray; all men lose heart," Robert yells, "I don't want to lose heart!" In context of the unfolding plot, these are beautifully written lines that any actor worth his salt would love to work with. As an actor and director, I find Wallace's dialogue extremely actable and layered. THAT is the yard stick by which dialogue in a screenplay or stage play must judged. One is writing for actors, and it is up to the actors to find what is being implied by the writer. (Dramatic dialogue is as much about HOW what is being said is said, and also about what IS NOT being said. Thus one can have endless "correct" interpretations of any given line or scene.) Wallace's dialogue is, on the surface, very clear: an actor can read a line and know exactly what verb to attach to it. But in Wallace's better works, the lines flow from a particular character's philosophic world view, meaning that there are many levels underneath the surface. And screenwriting is more than just dialogue: Wallace is also a talented story teller. He's also a romantic--as am I. This probably explains why BRAVEHEART captured my sense of life more fully than any other film I've seen so far that was produced in my life time. After grown up with nothing but anti-heroes and "flawed characters," I appreciate someone who can present a virtuous man--such as Randall Wallace's characterization of William Wallace. And the virtue in this character is not some sugary, Sunday School, holier-than-thou or humble-and-meek "Christian" wimp. He is enshrines the Pagan virtues of the West; not the meaningless abstractions of Platonic thought. He(the character of William Wallace) is not one who is trying to find a world without conflict where everyone loves one another unconditionally and "gets along." This is a character who doesn't seek power over others, but also know that the nature of existence is conflict, and he is willing to do whatever he must to protect his life and those things which he values. In short, I think that Randall Wallace is one of the best educated screenwriters we have--educated in the Western tradition. No. Let me corrected that. Perhaps I should say, he is the best example we have of a screenwriter who understands, appreciates and draws on the Western tradition in his writing. I know there are others just as educated, but I see little evidence that they understand and appreciate the history and values of the West. ROB. LAUER _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:30:23 -0700 From: "Alan Rex Mitchell" Subject: Re: [AML] Neil Labute Interview Question [for Neil LaBute]: On AML List several are contending that LDS art requires an element of hope because that is ultimately our message, in spite of the tribulation of the last days. Do you agree? Do you see your plays as contributing to that hope? Alan Mitchell - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:02:25 EST From: BroHam000@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] _We Were Soldiers_ I don't think Mormon even began to get graphic in those references. Linda Hyde - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:30:25 -0700 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] YOUNG & GRAY, _Bound for Canaan_ (Review) Early on, after reading ONE MORE RIVER TO CROSS, I knew that the trilogy was probably going to have a large scope. I haven't read #2 yet, Margaret, but I will. And I just have a feeling that reading the project in its entirey will bring the most wonderful reward! That's when we can truly give a comprehensive critique. That's why I decided to own all three books. (To read and reread) Thank you for explaining everything. And I will print it off and refer to it. I just want you to know, also, that my sister Elaine is a Flake, and that Green Flake was named after her husband's ancestors! He's been a favorite character all their lives! Also, people who came to DEATH OF A SALESMAN mentioned they had seen I AM JANE! And they LOVED IT! They are STILL TALKING ABOUT IT. So what does that say? (The TWIN and GRIN Marilyn Brown) - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:49:01 -0700 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] National Publishers and Mormon Lit Good, Sharlee. The world of adult literature has still not advanced as far as your children's titles, though. Appreciate you! Marilyn (We're stuffed for post room, so this can wait.) - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:16:48 EST From: BonBon353974989@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Mormons and Soldiers I lived in two different wards that a joined Navy bases, and I never felt the way you describe, in fact the people were a lot more generous, understanding, and kind then the members of the ward we just moved out of in Idaho Falls, ID! BonnieLe Hamilton - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:00:22 -0700 From: "Nan McCulloch" Subject: [AML] re: _Death of a Salesman_ Like Thom, I consider _Death of a Salesman_ one of the best plays ever = written. I saw it in San Francisco in the 50's (I think 50's) and fell = in love with it then. Seeing the play as a young woman, I picked up on = Biffs theme, that you should not waste your life doing something that = you don't absolutely love. Thereafter, as I gained life experience, I = came away from seeing the play with other insights: the folly of a = dishonest life, the cowardice of suicide, the abusive personality and = the facilitation of the abusee (new word), acceptance and forgiveness = and compassion. I enjoyed the play Monday night at the Little Brown = Theatre in Springville as if I was seeing it for the first time. Bill = Brown as Willy Loman was marvelous. Thank you Bill and Marilyn Brown = for providing good theater. I once heard a theater person say that they = did theater, because they liked giving to others and they enjoyed making = others happy. As a theater person, I have always felt guilty because I = do theater because I love doing it and I can't not do it. I am = rethinking now--and in spite of ego and love of performing, I see that = there are selfless aspects to the arts. Hopefully ego and the need for = approval and self-expression is just a small part of what we do. =20 Nan McCulloch - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #655 ******************************