From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #801 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Tuesday, August 13 2002 Volume 01 : Number 801 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:05:00 -0600 From: "Scott Parkin" Subject: Re: [AML] Institutional Repentance Tony Markham wrote: > > Elder McConkie further described the occasion: > > > > From the > > midst of eternity, the voice of God, conveyed by the power of the Spirit, > > spoke to his prophet. . . . And we all heard the same voice, received the > > same message, and became personal witnesses that the word received was the > > mind and will and voice of the Lord. > > This statement implies a textual message. Words were spoken and heard. The > text of these words continues to be withheld. We're all free to believe that > these words were not recorded, but to me, that seems unlikely. Unless there was > an accompanying commandment not to write or directly quote the revelation, I can > see no good reason why the text of the revelation continues to be some big > mystery. I can, however, imagine several bad reasons. President Hinckley spoke directly to the question when he said (quoted from "Priesthood Restoration" as it appeared in the Ensign, October 1988): The Spirit of God was there. And by the power of the Holy Ghost there came to that prophet an assurance that the thing for which he prayed was right, that the time had come, and that now the wondrous blessings of the priesthood should be extended to worthy men everywhere regardless of lineage. Every man in that circle, by the power of the Holy Ghost, knew the same thing. It was a quiet and sublime occasion. There was not the sound "as of a rushing mighty wind," there were not "cloven tongues like as of fire" (Acts 2:2-3) as there had been on the Day of Pentecost. But there was a Pentacostal spirit, for the Holy Ghost was there. No voice audible to our physical ears was heard. But the voice of the Spirit whispered with certainty into our minds and our very souls. It was for us, at least for me personally, as I imagine it was with Enos, who said concerning his remarkable experience, "And while I was thus struggling in the spirit, behold, the voice of the Lord came into my mind." (Enos 1:10.) President Hinckley seems adamant that there were no words to the revelation, only a confirmation of what they had discussed earlier and the change in policy they had agreed to among themselves. While I don't recall the source, it seems to me that Elder McConkie was corrected for suggesting a textual revelation in some of his writings when no such text was received (I'll look for the reference and post it if I can find it). I would also like to know why so few of the details have been made known, because I would very much like to know exactly what happened and how. I believe those details would be a blessing and a testimony to the Church. Perhaps one of the reasons so little detail has been offered is precisely the lack of explicit words and the possibility that people could question the validity of the revelation because of that lack. I don't know. In the end I'm not really sure it matters exactly what the details are as much as that we accept the words of the prophets that it was revelation from the Lord. Scott Parkin - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:27:08 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Polemical Style Jacob Profitt wisely pointed out that my condemnation of Marianne Jennings = was as guilty of polemical excess as I think her column is. Please = understand that I was just so thrilled to finally get to go off on her, I = overdid it a bit; guilty as charged. =20 A few minor points: >The lesson there is that, even if you >disagree with her you don't partake of the same faults of exaggeration >and misrepresentation. Quite so, point well taken, I'll repent. >She's in earnest, as >much as others think that's funny. At least, as much as I can gauge her >motivation. Some of her defenders have said that she's being funny, she's a satirist, = and so whassamatter wichoo, don't you got no sense of humah? And = sometimes I read something that seems a bit like it needs a rimshot; a = sentence construction that sounds sort of like a attempted joke. Of = course, she's never actually funny, but it seems possible she's trying to = be. =20 > >it's one thing to have two people study certain public policy > >issues and come to different opinions about them. It's quite >> another to turn absolutely every dispute and disagreement ad >> hominem. There's such an 'us vs. them' streak in Marianne, >> and I see that in a certain kind of Mormonism. Such a >> tremendous tendency to judge and condemn, which we see >> sometimes, unfortunately, in Mormonism. Jacob replied: >See, in my opinion, I think more Mormon conservatives are like me than >like you describe here. I think that those who judge and condemn are a >small minority (though a vocal one). =20 Of course. I don't dispute this. The small minority is awfully vocal, = but their numbers are small enough, I'm sure. >Now, you (Eric) are in a situation >where you are vulnerable to those willing to judge and condemn and you >have to be hyper-aware of them. I can understand being sensitive and >wishing they'd disappear altogether. =20 Sensitively and intelligently put. >That's a worthwhile goal and >probably achievable, though hard. Still, I *do* believe it is a small >minority and that Mormons are, on whole, more accepting of others and >kind than the surrounding general population.=20 And I think perhaps the Olympics showed that this is true. >Personally, if >she's carried in the Deseret News, I'd rather that they replace her with >Linda Chavez, Michelle Malkin, or Kathleen Parker (assuming they don't >carry them now). Depends. For partisan reasons, I see a certain advantage in having the = right represented by a kook. But of course, for public policy reasons, = it's best if intelligent commentary from a variety of perspectives were = the norm. Eric Samuelsen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:46:58 -0600 From: margaret young Subject: [AML] Yet Another Request for Prayers My co-author does not like to reveal anything about his health, so I will not get specific here. However, he is facing a really hard diagnosis. Please include him in your prayers. If you live near a temple, please put his name on the temple rolls: Darius Aidan Gray. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:03:09 -0600 From: Russ Asplund Subject: RE: [AML] Institutional Repentance This has been an interesting conversation, and I don't even know who to begin to respond to--but I wanted to share my personal feelings on this. I was a missionary in the south, not long after the revelation giving the priesthood to all worthy males. I was confronted with the past a lot, and spent much time thinking and praying about it. I was troubled because I found racism deeply wrong, and also because many of my fellow missionaries still believed the Cain/Less valiant school of thought. This is what I finally came up with. Perhaps it doesn't have to be that, "denying blacks the priesthood was either for their betterment or their detriment it either furthered the plan of salvation or hindered it." The principle goal of the restoration of the church at the time was to get the church restored and re-established on the earth. In order for that to work, it was necessary, for example, for the Saints to gather in one place--that they might have the strength and cultural identity to survive. Once the church grew beyond that point, that was no longer necessary and no one now is called to gather to Zion. I wonder if the issue of race and the priesthood might be somewhat the same. At the time the church was restored, the Civil was had yet to be fought. Race was a particularly divisive issue. I wonder if it simply wasn't the right time then to address the issue. If doing so would have made it more difficult, or in fact impossible, for the church to be established, as it would have given it's enemies one more hammer to pound it with. Perhaps that revelation had to wait for a time when people's hearts were in place, both within and without the church, that it could be implemented without endangering the greater mission of getting the church established. So it may have both hindered, by delaying the priesthood blessing, and helped by making the restoration of the gospel possible, and hence the blessings of the priesthood available throughout the earth. And then when people's hearts were ready, the revelation came. In the end, I'm mostly just grateful that the church can go everywhere now. But I wanted to raise the possibility that the answer could possible be more complex than simply the attitude of the early leaders of the church. Or maybe I'm just making excuses. Nonetheless, it helped me come to some peace with the church's past. Russell Asplund russa@candesa.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:17:45 -0600 From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] Kerry Blair Interview? Irreantum is overdue for a Covenant author interview (the only one we've done in the past is Rachel Nunes). I've read the reviews and comments on Kerry Blair with interest. Would she be Irreantum's best next interview prospect, or is there someone else publishing with Covenant who would be a better next choice? Chris Bigelow - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:22:11 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Sunstone Panel on Missionaries Returning Early - A Correction Though I was quoted correctly, the article gave the impression that "Matters of the Heart" is currently playing at the Center Street Theatre. It is on this year's season but it is not currently playing. BTW, for those of you who are interested, we're running into a little problem opening on time. We will probably be a few weeks late when our first production will be "My Turn on Earth," a musical by Carol Lyn Pearson and Lex deAzevedo. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:40:57 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: [AML] Revelation and Style [MOD: An interesting question. We really don't want to get into questions of what constitutes revelation, but I think this issue in the way Thom has raised it is appropriate to AML-List. I would welcome more comments that engage this connection, which relates to issues of literary interpretation of scripture as well--without, if possible, getting too deep into issues of doctrinal interpretation...] > I don't know. In the end I'm not really sure it matters exactly what the > details are as much as that we accept the words of the prophets that it was > revelation from the Lord. At the risk of sounding more heretical than I usually do, I offer the following as a suggestion as to why there weren't published words to OD2. Since the explanation has to do with style and the word of the Lord, I feel it is appropriate for the list. Had OD2 been received in the nineteenth century, I believe it would have been written down. Further, I believe it would have been written in the first person, as if quoting the Lord himself. I don't believe the words would have been a direct quote but I believe it would have read that way. The Book of Mormon, and many sections of the D&C are written in this "Biblical" style. Such an explanation would tend to explain why we find phrases such Greek phrases as "Alpha and Omega" in a book written in Reformed Egyptian. It seems reasonable to me to believe that, even when apparently quoting the Lord, Joseph was actually writing from the impressions of his heart and adopting a Biblical like language because, the times and surrounding being what they were, it just seemed appropriate. I have read "revelations" received from Anna Lee, the Shaker Prophetess, and her writings also had a Biblical feel. Today, because of public education and other factors, writing in that style would appear archaic, out of step with the times. It would be like writing a novel but adopting the style of Edgar Rice Burroughs. People today want less floridness in the words they read and more succintness. "Just tell it like it is." So Spencer Kimball gets an impression of the spirit that it's time to make a stand on the race question and he chooses the style with which he feels most comfortable to convey that impression. Had Neal Maxwell been the prophet, I suspect there not only would have been a written revelation but it would have reflected Maxwell's poetic style. Just some thoughts about the interaction between revelation and literary style. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:05:21 -0700 (PDT) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: RE: [AML] Polemical Style What interests me about Marianne Jennings is not her alleged political extremism (which I do not feel qualified to judge) but her polemical style. Most LDS writers have been brought up in a culture of "glorying in plainness", "let your yea be yea and your nay, nay" etc. etc. So we favor the so-called plain English style of George Orwell and Eugene England, of saying things as simply and elegantly as possible. Jennings is one of the few LDS writers I have observed to try the hyperbolic, exaggerated style of Mencken, P.J. O'Rourke, Hunter S. Tmompson, etc. We are all brought up to be so *nice*. In Jennings' work, the niceness gene is clearly absent. (Maybe because like Neil LaBute, she is a convert and hasn't had it imbued in her from childhood.) She's not very good, and not funny at all. But you have to admit it's not the norm (outside of, as I said before, the "F.A.R.M.S. Review of Books", that is, an internal press meant for like-minded Mormons.) ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:03:37 -0600 From: Cathy Wilson Subject: [AML] High School Literature Curriculum I just accepted a position teaching at our detention center. I was all prepared to refuse the offer but then visited the facility and had a look in the eyes of the students. . . .and it was a big Yes. The pay and hours are better than what I had at the college, oddly enough. And the curriculum is TOTALLY flexible. That means I must consider what types of book might be lifechanging for kids who will be in and out of my presence within about 45 days. Most of them are pretty good readers, but they have big gaps in their educational experiences because of family and their whole experience. Actually half of the kids have been in trouble and half of them are seriously at risk so taken into official custody. So . . .what would you have them read? Thank you so much. Cathy Wilson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 21:41:34 -0700 From: "gtaggart" Subject: [AML] re: Institutional Repentance Sometime ago, Margaret asked: =20 > Scott, HOW do you suggest we repent AS AN INSTITUTION? =20 And Cathy Wilson wrote, =20 "Perhaps this segues into Margaret's suggestion that the Priesthood wasn't given to the blacks till the general church membership could receive everyone with love--and sadly that seemed to take a very long time. So it all comes back to. . . .to me. There's no escaping the condition of my heart :), no matter how much I want to deflect any discomfort by discussing things. It's my responsibility to repent and become a Zion person. Times that by however many people are willing to do the same, and we're on the road to Zion." =20 And I responded, and Jonathan wrote back and suggested that I change a thing or two, to be specific, some sarcasm masquerading as irony. I forgot to re-post. So here it is, all cleaned up: =20 I just finished reading a Wendell Berry essay, "Why I'm Not Going to Buy a Computer." He writes, "To the conservation movement, it is only production that causes environmental degradation; the consumption that supports the production is rarely acknowledged to be at fault. The ideal of the run-of-the-mill conservationist is to impose restraints upon production without limiting consumption or burdening the conscience of consumers." =20 By analogy, this institutional repentance thing can be seen as an effort to lay the blame on anything, anyone, other than myself. Cathy's right. It would be time better spent if we spent it examining our own hearts. In so doing, consider what Elder McConkie said after the Revelation on the Priesthood, =20 There are statements in our literature by the early brethren which we have interpreted to mean that the Negroes would not receive the priesthood in mortality. I have said the same things=85 All I can say to that is that it is time disbelieving people repented and got in line and believed in a living, modern prophet. Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon or whomsoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world. We get our truth and our light line upon line and precept upon precept. We have now had added a new flood of intelligence and light on this particular subject, and it erases all the darkness, and all the views and all the thoughts of the past. They don't matter any more. It doesn't make a particle of difference what anybody ever said about the Negro matter before the first day of June of this year [1978]. It is a new day and a new arrangement, and the Lord has now given the revelation that sheds light out into the world on this subject. As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them. We now do what meridian Israel did when the Lord said the gospel should go to the gentiles. We forget all the statements that limited the gospel to the house of Israel, and we start going to the gentiles. (Cut and pasted from an article by Juliann Reynolds posted on FAIR's Website) =20 In short, we, as individuals should repent. We repent of prejudice (if we were prejudiced). We repent of conjuring up theories to cover the huge black holes in our understanding of Blacks and the priesthood. We repent of anything impure in our hearts relative to that doctrine. And, like McConkie, we humble ourselves, follow the living prophet, and become more tolerant of any and all. And--dare I say it--we do this whether we are white, brown, yellow, red, or black. =20 And if it helps our Black brothers and sisters, investigators and members alike, to give Elder McConkie=92s = talk in pamphlet form to the missionaries and offer a lesson or two or three on the subject in Gospel Doctrine, I=92m all for it. Still, I think the repentance time would be best spent working on our individual hearts. =20 Greg Taggart =20 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #801 ******************************