From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #813 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Wednesday, August 28 2002 Volume 01 : Number 813 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 06:12:58 -0600 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Church History Recommendations? I agree with Annette. (And sorry I haven't read yours yet, Annette, LOST WITHOUT YOU. It's one I definitely want to read!) The totally correct answer to the BIG QUESTION everyone is asking here is for an investigator to read Jeff Call's MORMONVILLE. We're getting some great REALLY Mormon "stuff" now that doesn't smack of irony or tongue in cheek "objectivism." If we can't see this development, we're high-hatting. Happy reading! Marilyn Brown - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 05:35:58 -0700 From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Church History Recommendations? If you ever discover whether this book is still available, I would be very happy to know about it. Sounds like just the kind of thing I'd enjoy reading. Thanks. OmahaMom@aol.com wrote: > I don't know if you can still get a copy, but Dr. Irving Cohen wrote a book > many years ago called Jews of the Torah explaining the gospel in relationship > to the Jewish faith. (His own family disowned him when he joined the > Church.) Bro Cohen was in NY state when I got my copy from him, but since it > was so many years ago--I don't know if it's possible to still get a copy or > not. When one starts tuning in, there are many things in Judaism (Passover > really comes to mind) that are like neon arrows pointing to Jesus Christ as > the Promised Messiah, not to mention some of the things that happened in the > restoration that relate to things going on at times of significance to Jews. > > No, I wasn't Jewish--but I almost was--but discovered the restored gospel > before making the transition. > > Karen Tippets - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 08:59:15 -0600 From: margaret young Subject: Re: [AML] _The Other Side of Heaven_ (Review) I haven't thought of this line ("Whatever you do, don't come home early") from the perspectives of the Tyners. How awful it must've been to hear that! In all honesty, I cannot imagine my grandmother (Elder Groberg's mother) ever saying that. Ever. And, incidentally, the Grobergs did have a grandson who came home early from his mission with an anxiety disorder. I will admit that the situation was handled miserably. The way it was handled, sadly, resulted in the missionary's sister leaving the Church. As I understand it, she saw such a lack of compassion and love that she did not want to be involved in the relision (this is second-hand, so I can't be sure of its full accuracy) . So for me personally, though I would be stunned if my grandmother said that, the line comes down two generations with a lot of resonance. And what kind of an awful message is "Whatever you do, don't come home early" anyway? It could encourage a young man to ignore a serious illness-mental or physical. It could encourage him to cover a sin. Lousy line. [Margaret Young] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:03:39 -0600 From: Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] Course on Mormon Poetry You may want to check out Michael R. Colling's article "Pre-visions of the Restoration: The Poetry of Henry Vaughan" in _BYU Studies_ 22 (summer 1982): 279-88. Marny Parkin - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:48:08 -0600 From: Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] Hymns Celebrating Polygamy--Update In the appendix to _Exemplary Elder: The Life and Missionary Diaries of Perrigrine Sessions, 1814-1893_ are a number of hymns Perrigrine had copied into his diary. One of our favorites at BYU Studies is "Fishing for Wives": Fishing for Wives The Fishing season now has come The streams begin to Eddy And every man that thinks he's some Must get his tackle ready But not for Salmon or for Trout To throw the net he strives Sir You'll wonder what for then no doubt Tis for some pretty Wives sir Chorus For which increase is the thing of late For which the folks are fishing But ladies don't catch at this Bate When they go out a-fishing Then friends just bear with me Nor deem me out of place ___ show you though of make you Wne (?) of our lace For (?) Some with silks and dresses These blessings would inherit Through fancy shawls they ______ And not by their own merit Chorus They want to swell their families Tis true upon my life sir No matter who or what it is So long as it's a wife sir For any thing with Petticots Some men are nearly raving And don't know what the Devil to do For some thing to be saving Chorus Some married women are hard (?) As any of the men sir For after he has fished for them They'll fish for him again sir Now this may seem a curious plan To some it is revolting Tis what do you think of my old man For now you need exalting Chorus And some who would a Kingdom get By Fishing or by Barter Oft take a soft fate (?) in their net And some times catch a tarter But if you act by better sense Nor ever take such rash courses T'will be a saving of expense And trouble and divorces Chorus Now if you'd gain on either side The blessings of perfection Just let your eyes be opened wide In making a selection Thus walk in wisdom's pleasant ways True happiness securing And peace will ever crown your days True happiness securing And Love be all enduring For increase is the thing of late For which the folks are fishing Then always do the thing that's _____ But don't go out a Fishing Marny Parkin - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:31:09 -0400 From: Turk325@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Church History Recommendations? In a message dated Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:38:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, roy_schmidt@byu.edu writes: > Did Signature publish this? I am pretty sure my copy is by > Doubleday. When I wrote the post, I had loaned someone my copy, so I went to barnesandnoble.com and looked it up. They list Signature Books as the publisher. That may be a second or third or [whatever] publishing. I have no idea who published my copy. I just thought it was a good account. Kurt Weiland - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:34:02 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: [AML] Re: Cultural First Contact Thanks to all! I purchased the Kidd book, gave it a quick read, liked it = a lot, and zipped it off to my sister-in-law's aunt. Great suggestions = all, and I'll keep everyone posted. She's doing great; five whole days = without a cig, and good progress on the other issues. Eric Samuelsen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:04:47 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: [AML] Lousy Movies In a recent passing comment, Eric Snider mentioned the current hit comedy = (rimshot) Serving Sara as a particularly dreadful film. I haven't seen = it, because I have this rule; if I see a trailer for a film that's = supposed to be a comedy and nothing in the trailer is remotely amusing, = I'll give the flick a pass. But it occurred to me that we have lost, as = Americans, an entire generation's worth of lousy movies. We no longer = have drive-ins. Now, there are lots of terrible movies being made today, and this has = always been the case. But the movies we see today are star-driven, = Hollywood high concept flops, or their cousins, the pretentious avant-garde= art film wannabe flops. But we don't have any movies being made that are = supposed to be crappy. I mean, I can see the meetings for Serving Sara. = "A Friends star, Perry has a following, plus Liz Hurley, process servers = are always funny, it could be great." As awful as Attack of the Clones = was, it was clearly supposed to be good, and the production values are = amazing. I mean, Lucas clearly didn't intend to make a terrible film, and = in the immortal words of Richard Attenborough, "no expense was spared." But see, when I was a kid, me and my friends would go to the drive-ins all = the time. Every Friday without fail, we'd pile into my '63 push-button = Plymouth Fury (loved that car), and we'd go see the latest offerings from = American International. Mostly they starred people you'd never heard of, = or they starred TV actors stretching themselves. They were horror flicks, = or space monster movies, or beach party movies (those were dying out), = sometimes they were westerns, or action adventure/noir flicks. They were = uniformly terrible. That was the fun of them. They were cheaply made, = badly acted, badly photographed, and the story liines were idiotic, and = the special effects execrable. Boy were they fun. They are completely indefensible from any aesthetic, and probably any = moral point of view. They were gratuitously violent or sexy or both. In = fact, if the American International aesthetic could be summed up in one = word, it would be 'gratuitous.' =20 I'll never forget Hitchhike to Hell, featuring the guy that played the = professor on Gilligan's Island as a cop, or maybe a sheriff. In one = scene, he's talking to his deputy, and he says 'that crazed lunatic = wouldn't hurt a little girl, would he?" Immediately, the phone rings, he = listens sadly--he doesn't even say hello--hangs up, and says to the same = deputy, "we were wrong." Fabulous. I remember Nuns in Bondage. I = remember Kidnapped Coed. I absolutely loved The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. = I remember films in which a landing flying saucer from outer space was = represented by a pie plate tossed like a frisbee. =20 Okay, so why defend these films? Why do I think our kids are missing out = by not seeing any of them. I guess it's because they were fun. Movies today aren't much. We can't = just make an entertaining genre film anymore; we have to Make a Statement. = Or, when we do make fun films, they turn out not to be so much. American = International films were rarely intentionally funny, but boy were they = unintentionally. Plus, the point was to see them with friends, and make fun of them = together. I guess that's what I really miss, the wiseacre crowd in the = car. We see movies today in theatres, and we sit quietly through them. = Okay, we rent movies sometimes, and that's kinda fun. Maybe that's where = the drive-in flicks have gone. =20 But I sure do miss 'em. Bring back the drive-in. Eric Samuelsen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:39:42 -0700 (PDT) From: William Morris Subject: Re: [AML] Course on Mormon Poetry This news pleases me to no end. I'll let others deal with Mormon poets. But I have two quick recommendations based on their influence on major schools of Mormon poetry: In addition to Blake, Byron for his influence on Orson F. Whitney and home literature (Whitney admired Byron's [and the other Romantics, but Byron is the one whom I recall him referring to] energy and prophetic voice and often linked, as you mention, prophets and poets, claiming that each should be able to assert the role of the other). - --And-- T.S. Eliot for his influence on the Mormon poetry that can be found in _Harvest_. It seems to me that much of the poetry in that collection follows Eliot's example of using compacted, tightly-wound imagery to capture religious experience. I esp. see his influence in the work of Dennis Clark and Clinton F. Larson. And then, of course, there's the whole Arthur Henry King connection. ~~William Morris - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 16:06:24 -0500 From: "Preston" Subject: [AML] re: T3 Team Options OSC's _Lost Boys_ Tom Kimball asks: >>Lost Boys ... The power behind this books is it's Mormonism. >>If they took out the Mormonism from a film version it wouldn't have the punch it needs and if they were to keep the Mormon angle it would not sell. Tom is correct when he says that _Lost Boys_ is an intensely Mormon novel. Mormonism, in name and not just outlook, overtly permeates the novel to a degree not present in any other work of science fiction or fantasy by Card. In fact, _Lost Boys_ is highly under-rated as one of the best, most accurate portrayals of contemporary Latter-day Saint life to be found in ANY nationally published novel. It was Orson Scott Card himself that stipulated that the current owners of the film rights make the characters religiously generic (non-LDS) in any adaptation that they produce. This is because he was not being contracted to write the screenplay -- he was being paid for the film rights so that somebody else will write the screenplay. Card stated that he did not want somebody else to mangle the Latter-day Saint aspect of the characters, recounting his experience that non-LDS writers--even well-intentioned ones--always mess up when trying to write LDS characters, getting the facts and attitudes wrong. Do you want Steven Soderbergh writing LDS characters in a "Lost Boys" movie? Or Trey Parker? George Lucas? Joe Esterhauz? If it's any consolation, film rights are bought all the time. I haven't heard anything that leads me to believe a "Lost Boys" movie is anywhere close to being greenlit. The rights could very well lapse and revert to Card before any actual movie is made. [Preston Hunter] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 14:12:38 -0700 From: JLTyner Subject: Re: [AML] High School Literature Curriculum My daughter and her friends absolutely love West Side Story! I think one of them introduced the rest of them to it, and they are well aware it was a retelling of Romeo and Juliet. Most of her friends are LDS, and some aren't, but they have routinely put it in the VCR when they have sleep-overs and dance and sing to it. They also like Grease, and Legally Blonde. They will occasionally tolerate my attempts to introduce them to other classic movies and musicals-I guess they sometimes have to find them on their own and sometimes be intoduced to them and hope if they if they're willing to have a looksee. I asked my son what were the books that appealed to him in high school. He read, but didn't like Catcher In The Rye, he thought it was stupid, in his opinion. I guess he also associates it with the murder of John Lennon. A teacher showed them a video about the book and Lennon's killer's obsession with it. He thought The Outsiders was okay and had never read That Was Then, This Is Now as I had. His book that "got him through" was Stephen King's-The Stand. He also loved Orwell's Animal Farm and 1984, those two seem to be classics that stand the test of time. My husband and I liked those too. He's also like my husband in his love and enjoyment of Sci-Fi/Fantasy books. He particularly likes the The Chronicles Of Thomas Covenant The Unbeliever, The Dark Sword Trilogy The Out Of The Ashes Series and some OSC. I don't know if he's representative of the average college kid and their reading likes and dislikes both now and when they were in high school, but he could be a representative of a kid that's been a voracious reader who was bored by school, but did the work anyway to get through. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 18:49:03 -0600 From: "Scott Parkin" Subject: Re: [AML] Church History Recommendations? Thom Duncan wrote: > As long as those folks don't read any real Church history, their testimonies > should remain unassailed. But what would we rather have, people who are > converted to the Church the way it really is (Levi Peterson), or the way > that Lund creates it? The problem with the latter is that you run the risk > of your converts turning out like me -- frustrated and somewhat angry when > they find out that Church leaders were much more human than they wsere > initially portrayed to be, or that the Church has tried to re-write its > official history. I can't help but ask--is Levi Peterson's vision the Church as it really is? And is Gerald Lund's version really any less real? It seems to me that both of them have chosen their eccentricities, and both of them tell a story fundamentally true to their own vision of the role and effectiveness of the Church. Personally, I don't see either as more real--though Peterson wins hands down in terms of interpretive depth, literary quality, and complexity. It seems like we sometimes reject any sense of verity in the stories we don't like and I find that fundamentally unfair. Peterson's version was true to his own experience and his own vision. But universal? I don't think so. And even where it is representative (at least in the broad strokes; I don't know how many of us have a brother who happily cuts off his genitals--literally or figuratively--so I hesitate to suggest it as common, no less universal), it's only representative of one kind of experience one can have. I just don't see it as an all-or-nothing proposition. Life is a mixture of the sublime, hopeful, disappointed, and ugly. Some find community within the supports set up by the institution and others feel fundamentally alone despite the people that surround them. Each experience is unique, and each speaks to a different hope or understanding. Peterson wouldn't seem nearly as literary if Lund wasn't also writing to large audiences. I would recommend both, with the caveat that both are fiction and reflect more than a little of their authors' individual stances and approaches. One hopes for greatness in all things as a result of the extraordinary foundations of both our religion and our culture, and the other is frustrated at the lack of greatness--and sometimes even simple adequacy--in the communities we've built for ourselves from those foundations. Both are true stories from their authors' perspectives. FWIW. Scott Parkin - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:41:19 -0400 From: lwilkins@fas.harvard.edu Subject: Re: [AML] Course on Mormon Poetry This course sounds really interesting. When I saw the subject line I thought immediately of 20th century poetry. But it sounds like you are planning to cover mainly the early 19th century. Is this true? I took a graduate course in Political Romanticism a few semesters ago and was constantly surprised at the resonances with early Mormonism that our course readings entailed. It seems you could look at Transcendentalism (the American version of Romanticism) as a context in which to understand the role of the "poet/seer". Or read German Romantics, too. Goethe has a lot of great stuff that would fit your course goals, Schiller, too. If you looked at the 20th century, it seems the course would take a radically different turn. But maybe there's something about the idea of the seer that persists in the craft of poetry even in a modernized world. Perhaps this is especially true in the practice of Mormon hymn writing. - --Laraine Wilkins - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:57:12 -0700 From: Jeff Needle Subject: [AML] Marilyn Brown Books You know, it's always a good day when you can make some good book purchases at DI. Today, there were two titles by Marilyn Brown that I've never owned -- "The Earthkeepers" and "The Wine-Dark Sea of Grass." Lots of other good stuff too, but this is what was particularly interesting to me. - -- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #813 ******************************