From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #841 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Thursday, September 26 2002 Volume 01 : Number 841 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:46:19 -0500 From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Tree-of-Life Stone Hi, Would any of you with information mind copying me with that also? I'm working in a tidbit about a possible tree-of-life stone into the sequel to Prodigal Journey. I also could use the research for any that have actually been found. I think it's interesting Sue mentions both the stone and my book in the same post, considering there isn't any way she would have known I was doing that! Linda At 04:43 PM 9/21/02, you wrote: >[MOD: This is a bit off-topic for AML-List, but I'm letting it out anyway. >Please respond directly to Sue unless you have a literary slant to give it >all.] > >A friend asked me to do some research for him. He is looking for a video >about the Tree-of-Life stone that was found in ruins in Izapa. I found a >section on the stone in Joseph L. Allen's "Exploring the Lands of the Book >of Mormon" which I will let him use. I'm sure that he wants this for >missionary work and am wondering if there isn't another book that would work >better for him. Actually he did request a video. > >I just enjoy reading and lerk here for the reviews. I just finished >Prodical Journey (never would have heard about it if it wasn't for this >list) and really enjoyed it. Yes, it did go on a bit in spots but this >mainstream convert is greatful for an interesting novel and looking forward >to the next in the series. > >I would appreciate it if any of you folks could help me out with references >on the 'stone'. > >Sue Reuser - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:33:30 -0600 From: "Rachel Ann Nunes" Subject: Re: [AML] Rachel Ann NUNES New Book > Well, this is Marilyn Brown. We are very proud to be publishing Rachel's > book. The publishing staff is bursting its buttons. Rachel can probably >tell you some things. But I'm not sure she's on line at the moment. >All I can say is that Cedar Fort is getting better. Kudos! Marilyn I appreciate your comments, Marilyn. In return I'd like to say that CFI has been very helpful in getting this book out to my readers in good time. I have enjoyed working with them, and was pleased with the wonderful job they did on the cover. They also dedicated an entire page to me on their website, which aside from a list of book titles has never happened before (http://www.cedarfort.com/author/Nunes.html). And before anyone asks, no, I didn't pay them to publish the book, though they do have a cost-sharing program for new/untried authors. _Twice in a Lifetime_ is the story my readers have all been waiting for, and I am happy the book will soon be in their hands. Rachel _______________________ Rachel Ann Nunes (noon-esh) Best-selling author of the Ariana series and Twice in a Lifetime Web page: http://www.rachelannnunes.com E-mail: rachel@rachelannnunes.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:53:49 -0700 From: "Susan Malmrose" Subject: Re: [AML] Feeding Your Inner Gnostic >> But one final comment: the Media depicts Mormons as very white bread, bland, conservative, buttoned down, more than a little corporate. If only they knew the deep and all abiding weirdness that lurks under the surface of much of Mormon culture. >> I have to argue with that one! :) I'd say most people think Mormons are weird. I've had a couple different co-workers react with surprise when I tell them the man in Utah prosecuted for polygamy wasn't LDS. All the "fringe" Mormons get lumped together with "real" Mormons in people's minds. Plus, before I joined the church, I definitely thought Mormons were weird. I still do. :) Susan M - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:31:30 -0600 (MDT) From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: [AML] Call for Papers - Life, The Universe and Everything XXI Call For Papers Life, The Universe, and Everything XXI: The Marion K. Smith Symposium on Science Fiction and Fantasy http://humanities.byu.edu/ltue 13 - 15 February, 2003 Brigham Young University Provo, Utah Guests of Honor: Orson Scott Card, Patricia C. Wrede, Esther M. Friesner Abstracts are currently being accepted for 20 to 45 minute papers dealing with all aspects of Science Fiction and Fantasy: Literature, Film, Television, Technology, Space Exploration, Arthuriana, Computers, Fictional Worlds and Cultures, Real World Cultures (as they relate to Science Fiction or Fantasy), Mythology, Future Shock, the Impact of Science on Modern Society, and all other topics of interest relating to these fields. Student Papers Welcome. Abstracts must be received by February 1st, 2002. For more information, contact Ivan Wolfe at rabidwolfe@byu.edu. Papers will be published in a proceedings volume. Please send abstracts to rabidwolfe@byu.edu, or: Life, the Universe, and Everything XXI Ivan Wolfe 1132-H JKHB Provo, Utah 84602 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:55:27 -0700 From: "Richard R. Hopkins" Subject: Re: [AML] Rachel Ann NUNES New Book Interesting, Rachel. Your experience is probably the same reason I'm currently rewriting my "Mariana Project" for a national market and very much enjoying the increased freedom which that audience gives me to be true to the characters and the story. Richard Hopkins - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:54:33 -0600 From: "Paris Anderson" Subject: Re: [AML] Feeding Your Inner Gnostic That explains it. Thank you, Eric. I bought a new Ch'i Gung book and have been really absorbed in it. There is a wuji (wuji is translated as chaos) form described in it that I started working on. My whole day has been euphoric. I suddenly understood the Taoist concept of times folding in on itself--it's been great! I thought it was the Ch'i Gung, but apparently satan's been bound and Christ is about to return. One question though--who will bring the mail tomorrow? Paris Anderson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:31:49 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] GRAND OPENING of Center Street Theatre At 09:02 PM 9/24/02 -0600, you wrote: >At long last, our long-held dream of opening an all-Mormon theatre has >come to pass. We premiere this Friday, September 27 Looking forward to witnessing the culmination of all your efforts! barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 20:00:11 -0600 (MDT) From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Culture: Good & Bad > > > 3. I like the fact AML, Sunstone, Dialouge, FARMS and BYU studies can all > > exist. None of those (despite calims to the contraty by the first three) > are > > truly outside Mormon culture. They are all very much a part of it. > > I think your statement here is not only inaccurate, but unfair. I don't > recall any of these organizations claiming to be outside of Mormon > culture--especially the AML. > Scott Parkin You got me on that - I meant to say: People in those organizatiosn cliaming not be part of Mormon culture. There have been people on this list who have claimed to be Mormon, but outside Mormon culture. Same with Sunstone and Dialouge. I admit - I should have worded it better. - --ivan wolfe - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 01:14:02 +0000 From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] CORNELL, _Utah!_ (Deseret News) Desret News Wednesday, September 25, 2002 'Utah!' has fine cast but seems disjointed By Ivan M. Lincoln Deseret News theater editor UTAH! THE JACOB HAMBLIN STORY, Tuacahn Amphitheater, Ivins (10 miles west of St. George); 7:30 p.m., Mondays-Saturdays, through Oct. 12; tickets, $14.50-$29.50; (435-652-3300 or 1-800-746-9882). Optional preshow Western cookout, 6-7 p.m. nightly, $8-$11. Running time, 2 1/2 hours (one intermission). IVINS =97 After it's third retooling (and being revived after a three-year absence), this new version of the show that was originally conceived as a permanent Tuacahn centerpiece still seems a bit disjointed and could use some substantial tightening. On the plus side, however, this year's "Utah!" has a fine cast, headed by well-known local performer Will Swenson, who certainly earned his place in the profession by coming up through the ranks of his family's Hale/Dietlein theaters. Now a New York-based Equity actor (he toured as Chris in the Broadway traveling company of "Miss Saigon"), he handles the role of Jacob Hamblin, legendary southern Utah peacemaker, with ease. Well, lately, maybe with slightly less ease and a touch of pain. You can't tell from the upper reaches of Tuacahn's 2,000-seat amphitheater, but his long-sleeve Western shirts \conceal a broken left arm and a sprained right arm that resulted from being bucked off a horse. And he's taken a lot of ribbing about breaking an arm, instead of following the theatrical "break-a-leg" admonition. Regardless, Jacob Hamblin is the driving force in this big-as-all-outdoors production centered around Brigham Young's colonization of Utah's Dixie, and Hamblin's efforts to build peace with the area's Indian tribes. During the show's various incarnations, it has become considerably less "preachy," but there is still an overabundance of "thus saith the Lords" in the script. Juggling three parallel plotlines also bogs things down. The comic-relief bits involving bashful Thales Haskell (Douglas H. Bilitch) and his awkward courtship of Maria Farley (Suzie Balser) go on way too long. The cast includes Eddie Shumacher as Hamblin's best friend, Thomas Wells, whose trigger-finger temper nearly destroys all of Hamblin's efforts; Marilee Spencer as Rachel, Hamblin's long-suffering wife; Stuart Bird as Tutsegavits, one of the few Paiutes who understands Hamblin's mission; Peter Fitzkee as Chief Agarapoots; Douglas H. Bilitch as Haskell; and Brenda Cox as the widow Maggie Farley. While "Utah!" is still big and spectactular (and, yes, the Santa Clara River still floods the stage with cascading, recycled water every night), the central focus of the story =97 Hamblin and the Indians =97 keeps getting sidetracked between far too many dance sequences that are way too long. The hoedowns have a "Seven-Brides-for-Seven-Brothers" look, and the "This Is War" segment is a blatant rip-off from "Les Miserables," right down to the ensemble's marching steps. Another irritating bit is the gimmicky strobe lighting, which lessens the dramatic impact of the flood. Kurt Bestor and Sam Cardon's music (along with most of Doug Stewart's lyrics), have largely been retained =97 and some of the music is very moving. But in whacking out sections of the script, the flow of the story is hampered by some confusing gaps. The playbill lists "revised book and lyrics by 'Stallion Cornel,' " a pseudonym for Jim Bennett, Tuacahn's former marketing director who now works with Sandy City's performing arts complex development. Copyright 2002 Deseret News Publishing Company _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:53:55 -0700 From: "Jeff Needle" Subject: Re: [AML] WORRALL, _The Poet and the Murderer_ (Review) > > Oh help and anguish! According to Worrall, I have > failed miserably in my religious duty to make money. > > Is my salvation now forfeit? Am I forever doomed to > spend the eternities with all of the other (insert your > favorite profession here) in ... oh, well. > > Larry Jackson > I'll go you one better -- I'm Jewish! And I study Mormonism! And I sure ain't rich! Can we share a seat in outer darkness? - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:55:01 -0700 From: "Jeff Needle" Subject: Re: [AML] WORRALL, _The Poet and the Murderer_ (Review) This was a very nice comment -- thanks! In fact, others, not on list, have requested copies, and I do send them. I'm grateful for the nice thought. - ----- Original Message ----- > [MOD: There are times when I wish these reviews could get a larger > circulation than just AML-List...] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:27:44 -0700 From: Robert Slaven Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Culture: Good & Bad From: Ivan Angus Wolfe > I hear a lot of condemnation "the culture" on this list. To me, it's an easy > straw man that remains undefined. I find Mormon culture to be diverse, > multi-faceted and generally good. Of course, I am a cultural conservative, so > that changes how I view it, of course. > > But I'm asking all of those who constantly condemn "the culture" to be more > specific. List the specific cultural practices you like/dislike. I doubt > anyone thinks we should jettison Mormon culture in its entirity - so there has > to be some good things as well. > I've had the opportunity to live all of my church-member life in places that most Utah Mormons would call 'the mission field'. Certainly the Yellowknife (NWT) Branch -- which reports straight to the mission, not belonging to a district or a stake -- qualifies in that regard, but the various places I've lived in BC (Victoria, Vancouver, and now Prince George) would also count, even though they were 'normal' wards in stakes. So my comments here might be erroneous and inaccurate, because my knowledge of 'the Mormon culture' is fringe and often secondhand. That disclaimer out of the way, here goes. First, let me distinguish between 'Mormon culture' and 'THE Mormon culture'. The former is, to my eye, everything about all of the members of our church in all their diversity and splendour. The latter is all those things that exiles from Utah joke about once they're away from it. A list: * Believing that any church authority (certainly our general authorities, often our area authorities, and sometimes right down to bishop/EQ pres./RS pres. level) is completely infallible in every way, not just in the sphere of their calling. (Hence all those con jobs in Utah that start out with 'Elder is one of our major investors!') * Believing that any depiction of any evil in art is abominable. _Charly_ is OK because the only 'evil' is that nasty cancer thingy. _The Broken Covenant_ is evil because the book has the audacity to start out with an endowed sealed sister driving home from an adulterous one-night stand. See Card's 'The Problem of Evil in Fiction' for a more eloquent explanation of this issue. * Believing that socialising with 'Gentiles' is unacceptable. A net acquaintance of mine in Oregon hosted her Utah sister and family. Her kids invited their cousins to come play outside with their neighbour friends -- none of whom were LDS, of course. The Utah sister was shocked, explaining that she *never* let her kids play with Gentiles back home. Her Oregonian sister's response that such a position would result in very lonely kids in Oregon didn't seem to sink in. * Believing that your entire life should revolve around church activities. If you skip a ward dinner to go out to hear the local symphony orchestra, you're a sinner and will never make the CK. Having non-member friends -- and sometimes, friends outside your stake or even your ward -- is equally unacceptable. * Believing bits of folk doctrine that are not only wrong, but hurtful. The wife of one of my bishops in Victoria told about going to Cardston AB (a little bit of Utah right here in Canuckia) to visit her husband's family. She was a convert, and a relatively new one. Imagine her dismay in Gospel Doctrine class when one of the old matriarchs of the ward stood up and announced that anyone who was not born into the church would never get into the CK. Apparently, frequent arguments using Joseph Smith and Brigham Young as counterexamples wouldn't shift her. Meanwhile, this new-convert/young-bride was very, very worried and upset for quite a while after that. Similar stories abound re: baking 8 loaves of bread a week, sewing all of your kids' clothes yourself, not having kids right after marriage (the sister of my ex-wife went through this lovely kind of hell for 5 years, a physical impediment to pregnancy not shutting up the biddies one little bit -- luckily, it got fixed and they have five kids now), and so on and so on. This is probably one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, problem with the culture; too many Mormons for whom a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. * Believing that art which challenges one at all -- in any way, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, whatever -- is evil. If it ain't bland, it's bad. This is one of the biggest problems with the culture w.r.t. art (including writing) specifically. I have no particular knowledge, but I suspect that any piece of 'classical' music written since Stravinsky's 'Rite of Spring' and Schoenberg's 'Pierrot Lunaire' (i.e. 1917 or so) would be seen as pure, raw evil by at least 50% of Utah Mormons. These people would refuse to see any merit in these things whatsoever. Granted, this isn't exclusive to Mormons -- heck, I dare say most North Americans of any religion share this problem -- but the tinge of 'evil' doesn't show up the same way among non-Mormons. I'm sure I have more in the back of my brain, but all of the above should be a good start. My apologies for any over-generalisations. Robert ********************************************************************** Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven www.robertslaven.ca ...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too 'Man is that he might have joy--not guilt trips.' (Russell M. Nelson) - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.389 / Virus Database: 220 - Release Date: 2002/09/16 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:16:51 -0600 From: "Nan McCulloch" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Culture: Good & Bad The hymn "Because I Have Been Given Much" is a Baptist hymn. Before it was included in our hymnal, I had to call and get permission to use it. Years ago a Lutheran friend asked me what my favorite Mormon hymn was and I answered "A Mighty Fortress is Our God." He got a big hoot out of that, since Martin Luther wrote it. The Baptists have included "Come, Come Ye Saints" in their hymnal. They have changed some of the words, however. Nan McCulloch - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 06:06:50 +0000 From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] Re: Feeding Your Inner Gnostic Wow, interesting stuff, Eric. I have heard of Pratt, he writes a monthly column "on current science" for the online Meridian Magazine. His most recent article, in which he talks about the feast you attended, is at: http://www.meridianmagazine.com/sci_rel/020827seven.html Most of his other columns have been similiar things, ancient calanders, how constellations relate to prophesy, etc. Most of it has seemed to me to be close to numerology and astrology, but generally not as bizarre as the dinner you attended. Well, that's the fun of encouraging people to produce their own scholarship and art without the Church's seal of approval. You'll get things like this. Your sister in law's strong reaction to it is disburbing, however. The idea of Mormon gnosticism is pretty interesting, like I say, it is kind of fun to hear that people have various funky interpretations of gospel things. In person, however, I've mostly just found it annoying and/or boring. Pratt's articles are an example, he is obviously fascinated with the stuff, but I have not been able to read through any of his articles. Ridiculousness in action, especially when it is long-winded, is almost always dreadfully boring. (I am having the same experience in my research, reading through textbooks and teachers manuels created by the Japanese for teaching the non-Japanese children they ruled in Northeast China in 1932-1945. As time goes on, and the rhetoric gets thicker and thicker, and more based on a percieved divine mission, it almost invariably becomes duller to me. I'll have to think about why.) I had a mission companion who was into such things (figuring out the date of this or that, the lineage of all the peoples on the earth, etc), and although at first I liked getting him started talking about it, exploring the variety of ideas out there, I soon learned to keep away from the subjects. Meridian certainly is an interesting little outlet for such things. People I consider perfectly reasonable, like the historian Jim Allen, contribute columns, and there are nice little advice columns. But then they also have people like Pratt, and they publish rather wacky right-wing political editorials. Andrew Hall Fukuoka, Japan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 00:57:21 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] "Religious Educator" Article on Creative Arts Ivan Angus Wolfe wrote: > I for one, see the culture of Mormonism as a good springboard to use in art - > not something to be cast off and thrown away because some don't like it. That > doesn't mean you can't be critical of it - go right ahead and be critical - but > casting of entirely would be a mistake. There's good reasons Mormon culture has > become what it is. Unless we want to argue that our theology is flawed, it > played a part in creating the culture. I've been waiting for Eric to respond himself, instead of having me try to second-guess what he meant. But with this particular thread of criticism, I have some of my own thoughts to express, so I'll start by second-guessing Eric. I don't think Eric ever intended to say we should cast off the culture. Rather we should cast off the bogus restrictions and mindsets of the culture that have no basis in our theology and that interfere with our ability to create superior art. In this I agree completely. There is much in our culture that irritates or even disturbs me. To say that our theology played a part in creating our culture contains an implied endorsement that I don't accept. It implies that the culture is sacrosanct and ought not to be criticized. In the same paragraph you say it's okay to criticize the culture, but those two concepts don't mesh. If the culture requires reverence because the theology played a part in creating it, then we ought not to criticize the culture, anymore than we ought to criticize the theology as believing Mormons. The paradox is resolved by recognizing that culture is in no way sacrosanct. The LDS culture specifically is an extension--a man-made one at that--of the theology. To say the theology in part created the culture is technically not true. It was human beings' interpretation and embellishment of the theology that created the culture. By scriptural edict, man adding to the teachings of God is not a good thing. That a culture would grow around the theology is hardly unexpected, indeed inevitable. What causes the problem is confusing the theology and the culture. When we are required to obey the culture in the same way we are required to obey the gospel, trouble can't help but ensue. And make no mistake about it, we are required to obey the culture to that extent. If I were called to an important leadership position in my stake, and had a beard but refused to shave it, I would be in deep doodoo with the our president. Yet there is absolutely no theological reason to require this of me. Artists in particular are at great risk of being harmed by this phenomenon of confusing culture and theology. They can be judged, condemned, ostrasized, possibly even disfellowshipped, by their "fellow" Saints, all for doing something that the theology does not condemn in any way. The shortest commandment ever given is in Matthew 7:1... "Judge not." In my opinion, it's also one of the most ignored and violated commandments among the Saints. The violation of this commandment is what makes the culture/theology issue relevant in the first place. If people would tend to their own beams and leave the motes of other people alone, it wouldn't matter where one person draws the line between theology and culture in his personal life. It's when that person starts dictating that his personal line must be the same line for all members of the church that the trouble begins. My personal perception is that the culture/theology confusion and its associated judgmentalism is increasing in the church and causing more and greater problems in people's lives. The cookie-cutter image the world seems to have of Mormons appears to be increasingly valid, not necessarily because more Mormons are becoming cookie-cutter, but that the cookie-cutter Mormons are becoming more vocal and those who refuse to cut cookies are going more underground. I don't see this as a good thing. I see this as something to combat. I think an excellent battleground upon which to combat it is art. I think Eric's list is a good recipe for how to combat it. Eric Sun Tzu's Art of LDS Cultural War. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 02:12:43 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Culture: Good & Bad Ivan Angus Wolfe wrote: > But I'm asking all of those who constantly condemn "the culture" to be more > specific. List the specific cultural practices you like/dislike. We aim to please. You may be sorry you asked. My (incomplete) list of things I dislike about the culture: A white shirt and tie (and preferably a suit as well) is the uniform of the priesthood. Facial hair is bad. Only McCleanesque pop music is inspirational. Only somber music is sufficiently inspirational to be allowed in church meetings. Missionaries can't feel the spirit if they consume any music, literature, or other art. Only by playing basketball. Basketball is the one true youthful diversion. All else is suspect. Especially art. If the church hasn't approved a work of art, we shouldn't be consuming it. (I've personally been on the receiving end of this one.) If we don't show Mormons as more or less continually righteous in our stories (with a few minor foibles thrown in to make things look good), we are writing anti-Mormon literature. (Ditto on this one.) Sex is okay in our movies and TV shows, even illicit sex, as long as no nudity is shown. (Or alternatively...) Sex is not okay to show or its existence even acknowledged in our art. If we must acknowledge the existence of sex, we must do it with maximally vague euphemisms. Explicitness is not clarity of communication. It's immorality. If you never do your home teaching, which is caring for the eternal well-being of a soul put in your stewardship, no biggy. But if you smoke, you are evil evil evil. The laws of the land must reflect our religious beliefs. Never mind there are those living here who are not of our religion and don't believe all those things. Never mind a war was fought in heaven to preserve our free agency. _Everyone_ has to live as we choose to live. Church leaders must never be criticized, in spite of the fact that they are as human as the rest of us. If our prophets aren't perfect (with a few minor foibles thrown in to make things look good) then they can't be real prophets. If our church history isn't perfect (with a few minor yada yada) then the church can't be true. Only church-taught and -approved truths are true, the 13th article of faith notwithstanding. Democrats are evil. Evolution is evil. Homosexuals are subhuman, and do not deserve the same Christlike treatment we are commanded to give others. Always assume non-Mormons are evil until proven otherwise. (Else how can you account for the oft-uttered phrase, "Even though he's not a member..."?) Nonmember children make bad friends for your kids. A safe Halloween is one where you only trick-or-treat the homes of ward members. The way to keep your children righteous is to keep them ignorant (the lesson of the Garden of Eden notwithstanding). Women are more spiritual than men. Heck, women are more everything good than men. It is the obligation of girls to keep the minds of boys pure. The law of chastity reads: "Thou shalt pretend sex does not exist." The law of chastity reads: "Thou shalt be ashamed of thy body." Nudity by definition is evil. Certain words I can even read in the Bible are nonetheless evil cuss words and should never be uttered. If church bores you to tears, it's your fault for not being in the right spirit, not the speaker's fault for being boring. You are saved by works. (I know, I know, we don't officially believe that. But you'd never guess it by the way Mormons act.) All cultures, when joining the church, must adopt the American LDS culture, or they're not living the gospel properly. If you show evil in your stories, you're promoting evil in your stories. Heroicism against nature is a sufficient soource of conflict for an entire body of literature, and we shouldn't be using evil to create the conflict in our stories, because by golly, I'm tired of it. As vital and integral a part of the human existence as sex should not enter into our stories, because by golly, I'm tired of it. In fact, anything I'm tired of should never appear in any good Mormon artist's work. On the other hand, if you're sick and tired of Weylandesque, happy ending stories, you're evil. _Singles Ward_ is more popular than _Brigham City_. (This may very well be the most biting cultural indictment of all.) Good historical scholarship is the road to excommunication. Art must be censored by what some middle-management flunky thinks will offend a general authority. Eugene England felt obliged to leave BYU. Crying equals feeling the Spirit. If a general authority utters it, it's gospel. (And the number one reason to dislike LDS culture:) The most popular event in LDS publishing since the Book of Mormon is _The Work and the Glory_. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:15:28 -0600 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Culture: Good & Bad Scott Parkin wrote: I just don't see the cross purposes or the essential corruption of either side of this particular issue. Different methods; same elephant. One side does not have to be wrong for the other to be right. This was an excellent discussion about our Mormon culture, Scott, and made very clear by the specific list of behaviors you saw in your people in time of disaster. You say they are not "dramatic," but I see a lot of drama here! I like your aproach. "One doesn't have to be wrong for the other to be right." Thanks for this! Marilyn Brown - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:26:29 -0600 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Not All Bad in Mormontown Susan, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I think there are more kinds of people (Mormons included) going through these things than we even guess. Thank you for sharing this with the list, and I have printed it off, because it's exactly the kind of thing I'm hoping we can face in our literature. Bravo. Marilyn Brown - ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Malmrose > The people I look up to the most are people I know who've been given > horrible situations, and have managed to overcome them. [snip] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:34:59 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] "Religious Educator" Article on Creative Arts Okay, just a few points that I hoped would be obvious, but clearly = weren't. 1) "Crooks abound" in LDS circles. I could, if I wanted to, name names, = but I won't. Let me just say that unethical, often even downright crooked = business practices are the bane of the LDS art world. Just sitting here = at my computer, I can think of fifteen, no wait, just thought of another = one, sixteen examples of artists who have been ripped off by publishers, = producers, arts' related companies big and small. There are also some = ethical people in the business, and I won't name names here either, but = they do exist. Sorry, Ivan, but this is simply true. Students need to = carefully scrutinize any contract they sign with anyone, but if the = producer is LDS, be doubly wary. He is, in my experience, more, not less = likely to rip you off.=20 2) To Fred, I'd say, of course I want students to have and nurture a = testimony of the gospel, and of course I believe that there's a significant= role the Spirit can and should play in the creative process. And I bear = testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel every class I teach. I just = think a testimony is not a short cut. Discerning and effectively having a = dialogue with the Spirit is very difficult, and I believe, only comes when = you're prepared to receive the spirit. That preparation has to do with = prayer and scripture study, but it also has to do with professional = preparation, carefully learning all aspects of the art form. We insist on = scholarly rigor, and artistic rigor, why not also insist on spiritual = rigor? 3) Yes, dear student, there are occasions in which you should ignore your = bishop and your parents. My bishop is a good and righteous man, and a = righteous judge in Israel, and I'm delighted to be a member of his ward. = His role as judge in Israel, however, has only to with my own personal = righteousness and worthiness, not what I do professionally, and his = aesthetic opinions have no more value or weight than those of any other = audience members. No less weight or value either, of course. I'm = reminded of a dear friend of mine, a superb LDS composer, who served on = the High Council of his stake. His music is very atonal and dissonant, = and after the performance of one of his works, the Stake President was = asked, in all sincerity, how he could have someone who could write music = like that serving on his High Council. The answer, of course, is that the = two matters are unrelated. 4) Did ever say, or even intimate, that apostacizing from the Church = would in any way improve someone artistically? I did not. These two = pieces of counsel basically sum up what I say in every class I teach. Be = the best artist you can possibly be. And do your home teaching. Eric Samuelsen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:05:14 -0600 From: David Hansen Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Culture: Good & Bad I'm not sure I was the one Ivan was directing his culture post, but being a pessismistic cynic by nature (one of my worst faults), I think I can articulate some of the problems I have with Mormon culture. (BTW, being critical is another facet of the culture that currently doesn't exist.) Let me also state that many of my cultural criticisms are not directed at the leaders of the church, who probably don't believe or participate in these problems. I also want to make clear that I agree with Ivan that, in general, Mormon culture is multi-faceted and generally good. I certainly couldn't find many, if any, equally beneficial cultures to raise my family. The church culture is unparalled in providing for the physical needs of its members. I've never seen a non-government entity come even close. The culture also has provided incredible support and encouragement to families in resources, programs and support. However, it's my experience that as much as the culture gives in physical support, it subtracts in emotional support in a lack of true love and caring for its members. There is a strong cultural condemnation for anyone who doesn't fit the mold of a nuclear family. I say by an LDS couple last night at a concert where the woman was completely distraught and feeling like a failure because her son was not married at age 28. I've spoken with multiple friends who have received not so gentle reprimands because they didn't have children after three years of marriage - and they were trying. The culture is sexist. I'm not talking about women and the priesthood, I'm talking about the way women are treated by themselves and the men that surround them. I've had several times where my hair has literally curled because of things that were said, to which no one else seemed to bat an eye. The culture condemns anything that seems to detract from family or church activities, not matter how worthy the cause. The culture then condemns people who aren't actively participating in their church activities while trying to better the world. In combination with this, the culture is HUGELY concerned, and places a high value with what the "world" thinks of them. LDS people hold on pedastals those they perceive to be "friendly" (Mike Wallace) and vehemently condemn those that point out deficiencies (Bryant Gumbel). The combination of these last two make it almost certain that the culture will never affect the larger national or world cultures because it never allows anyone the time to rise to the top of their respective fields. The real frustration for me is that for the large part, the culture doesn't care. With all the talk of education - the culture in my view, is very anti-education with their actions. Dissent is typically silenced (and I'm not talking about a church wide level), even when done in a constructive way. And in my experience at least, even challenging a teacher's blatantly incorrect statements can bring down cultural criticism. Similarly, the culture, with all it wants to reap from the mediums, is particularly anti-artists. Even in the "safer" arts, like music, where you don't have deal with those pesky words, the culture believes that it's a nice hobby, but places very little to no value on the actual product. Finally, (and I could go on) the List has discussed the idea of "competitive righteousness" lately. I find that to be a specifically cultural construct. The LDS culture likes things very black and white and things that you can outwardly see. It's almost as if people keep checklists of things that are good and bad. Don't smoke, don't drink, don't take drugs, don't have tattoos, don't wear earrings (other than the conservative one pair for women), don't wear sleeveless dresses, women don't wear pants to church, etc. etc. Those that follow these things are "OK" while those that don't are culturally shunned. This post sounds much more negative than I really feel about LDS culture, but I've been feeling distanced from the culture more lately. I believe that there are things that can be done to change things for the better, but it likely will take several generations. (Patience, patience . . . ) Dave Hansen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #841 ******************************