From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #988 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Wednesday, March 5 2003 Volume 01 : Number 988 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 09:57:36 -0800 From: "jana" Subject: [AML] FYI Sheri Dew Sheri Dew, former second counselor in the Relief Society general = presidency and current CEO of Deseret Book Company, has been asked by = the White House to serve as a White House delegate and private-sector = adviser to the Commission on the Status of Women, an international = commission. She will be participating in the 47th session of the = Economic and Social Council Commission on the Status of Women, to be = held in New York, New York, from 3-14 March. http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,465030313,00.html - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:02:16 -0800 From: "Susan Malmrose" Subject: [AML] LDS TV Sitcom Class? So what happened with... The tv sitcom class someone was teaching? I remember a discussion of it awhile ago but don't have any email saved from back then. Just curious how it turned out. Susan M - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:28:49 -0500 From: "Eric D. Dixon" Subject: RE: [AML] Programming as Art Jacob wrote: >If that's your definition of art, then sure. But I think that's a pretty >silly definition of art. By that definition, books aren't art. Theater >isn't art. I dare you to frame the last performance of "The Way We're >Wired" tonight. Frankly, a lot of modern art is stuck in parks or looming >over multi-story office lobbies. Frankly, the frame of a computer monitor >stacks up better than any frames for those do. Did Dutcher frame "God's >Army"? Are you going to say there's no art there? Your definition removes >the term "art" from anything we can discuss on this list. The Zappa quote I posted that used this "frame" definition of art explicitly uses the word as a metaphor -- the "frame" is a declaration of intent, separating the "art" from the rest of the world that surrounds it: The most important thing in art is The Frame. For painting: literally; for other arts: figuratively--because, without this humble appliance, you can't know where The Art stops and The Real World begins. You have to put a 'box' around it because otherwise, what is that s*** on the wall? If John Cage, for instance, says, "I'm putting a contact microphone on my throat, and I'm going to drink carrot juice, and that's my composition," then his gurgling qualifies as his composition because he put a frame around it and said so. "Take it or leave it, I now will this to be music." After that it's a matter of taste. Without the frame-as-announced, it's a guy swallowing carrot juice. Note the phrase "For painting: literally; for other arts: figuratively" -- the "frame" is an explication of the boundaries of the art, and those boundaries can be as simple or as complex and detailed as necessary. Even if you ultimately discard the definition, everything you mention above -- books, theater, film -- fits this "frame" definition of art, since the frame is figurative. An artist wills his creation to be art by envisioning some type of distinction (however thin and malleable it might be) between the artwork and the surrounding world; so it is art. Whether it's "good" art is a matter of taste, or maybe competing critical theories. D. Michael thinks this "frame" definition, though workable, should be constricted to include only works that are intended for some type of public display -- works that will have an audience. Personally, I think that if a creator has only herself as an audience for her work, this doesn't invalidate her defining her creation as art. Eric D. Dixon - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:33:12 -0700 From: "Clark Goble" Subject: [AML] Value of Fairy Tales (was: Why Not PG?) Ah, the return to Disney bashing. =20 ___ Tracie ___ | All the original Grimm's and Hans Christian Andersen tales are=20 | more brutal, or maybe honest, than their modern counterparts. | I remember reading someone's thesis discussing how Disney, among=20 | others, have created a questionable morality and increased=20 | nightmares among children all by making the stories less black=20 | and white. ___ I think the original folk tales that the Grimm brothers collected were much more archetypal. I don't know that makes them more "honest." (I mean, how can we call fairy tales honest? Its fantasy!) I think they do play more to our fears. Personally I don't think I'd be telling many of the original fairy tales to kids. Just because a bunch of primitive, violent, uneducated folks in the 14th century thought they were great to scare kids with doesn't mean they are. Having said that though, I think that from a psychological and mythic level the original fairy tales work better. They fit the overall "fear." With most modern retellings the underlying fear or angst is averted at the last minute. =20 However with kids I think that the fear is a little overbearing. It is much more appropriate for adults. (IMO) I mean there still is a legitimate fear of strangers today, even if the dangers aren't quite what they were in the 14th and 15th centuries. But do *you* go through a tale of all the horrible things a child molester and murder will do to your kids to scare them into not talking to strangers? I think that psychological putting a bit of concern into them is wise. Making them feel like they are in a battlezone isn't. That carries with it its own psychological trauma. So I guess it all depends upon what you see the point being. Disney certainly isn't being completely true to some of the archetypes or psychology. However one could argue that no story ought to be beholden to such matters. Further in real life most fears aren't fully realized. Typically we have friends and also have the opportunity to try and correct our mistakes. Is a myth or story somehow more true because it only deals with worst case scenarios? One could even say that the whole point of community and the atonement is to try and help keep consequences from being too brutal. So perhaps the fairy tales were much more true in a day and age when there were few safety nets and even your family had few resources? I also think that the "danger deferred" is an important point of myth. The clich=E9 of the hero stopping the bomb just before it goes off has = its basis. We want to have the danger, the fear, and so forth, but have it averted at the last minute. Such last minute averting certainly is an ancient literary tradition. We ought remember it with Abraham and Isaac, if no one else. [Clark Goble] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:53:56 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] Re: Little Mermaid (was: Why Not PG?) Elizabeth Walters wrote: > The Little Mermaid is actually a story about a young heroine stuck in a > world/society bound by centuries of unquestioned social protocols and an > urgency by its rulers to keep the status quo. I vote for Elizabeth's interpretation. There was definitely some serious bigotry going on in those societies--just the sort of thing that causes the Middle East crises or the on-going conflict between Ireland and Great Britain in our real world. The authoritarian and information-depriving parenting approach of King Titan is something I philosophically oppose. I also like that Ariel was quite nude in front of two male creatures without anyone making the slightest deal out of it, either by being scandalized or sexually titillated. Just the sort of reasonable attitude toward nudity our society should have. > let's not bring up the urban legend of the castle resembling > part of the male anatomy. I've never heard that one, and I never noticed such a comparison. I may have to go back and look. > I guess you could bring up her outfit > resembling stuff worn by Britney Spears and Shakira. Uh oh! That's > it! The movie is banned. Never mind. At least she had shells on. Compared to other films with fantastic creatures like Fantasia and Splash, that's quite modest. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:04:05 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Surprise Endings Melissa Proffitt wrote: > For _Ender's Game_, maybe what it means > is that readers with a certain level of reading experience picked up on > overly obvious clues, and other readers didn't. Of course, that raises the > question of whether it actually was done well as long as some readers were > surprised, but that's more philosophical than I want to get right now. But if the overly obvious clue was unnecessary and easily fixed, then that is a litarary sin. As I wrote my book _Brother Brigham_, I feared the surprise ending would be too obvious too early. (It turns out that for some readers it was, and others it wasn't.) But there was little I could do to fix it, because the very nature of the story made it difficult to disguise the surpise too heavily and keep things sufficiently true and believable. So I had to do my best and hope that plenty other things in the book would make it worth reading, even for those who got the surprise early on. _Ender's Game_ had plenty of other thigns to nake the book worthwhile even for those who saw the surprise ending coming a mile away, so that part Card did right. But fixing the telegraphing of the ending would have been a snap, so he failed there. He even knew there was a problem with the way he handled it, because between the short story and the novel, he changed the part of the story that did the telegraphing. But his change didn't fix the problem. > On the other hand, if you can say "here is where the surprise was > telegraphed in Novel A, and here and here," then you have some basis for > claiming that Novel A was poorly done. I've tried to avoid mentioning specifics so I wouldn't make the problem worse for anyone who hasn't read the book yet, but I certainly can point out exactly where the problem occurred. It was fixable by a very simple trick: remove the part completely--it added nothing beneficial to the book and could easily be cut. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:07:42 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Programming as Art Jacob Proffitt wrote: > ---Original Message From: D. Michael Martindale > >> Are you exhibiting your programs as art somewhere, Jacob? Is there a >> "frame" around them anywhere? If not, they may be >> artistically designed, >> but they are not art. > > > If that's your definition of art, then sure. But I think that's a pretty > silly definition of art. By that definition, books aren't art. Theater > isn't art. I dare you to frame the last performance of "The Way We're > Wired" tonight. I was using the word "frame" metaphorically, like Zappa did. Thus the quotes around the word. Surely don't think I was suggesting a physical wooden frame needs to be constructed around each book or stage. Books and plays certainly are "framed" as art for the consumption of an audience. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:14:35 -0700 From: "Marianne Hales Harding" Subject: RE: [AML] Programming as Art >If that's your definition of art, then sure. But I think that's a >pretty >silly definition of art. By that definition, books aren't >art. Theater >isn't art. Putting a play on stage "frames" it. Screening a movie "frames" it. The very presentation of a book "frames" it. Not that I'm ascribing to the "frames" definition of art, but I just wanted to clarify what a frame is. Ostensibly if I were to say, "What you are about to witness is a work of art" I have just created a frame. Personally, I don't think I'd say that the act of framing something makes it art but I could go with the idea that the act of framing something indicates that a person is attempting to create art. Whether or not one succeeds....well we'll just keep arguing that one now won't we? Marianne Hales Harding _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:21:44 -0700 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: [AML] _Stones_ at Center Street Theatre - --------------------------------------------------------- NEWS FROM CENTER STREET THEATRE - Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - --------------------------------------------------------- 50 West Center Street - Orem, Utah 84057 - 801-225-3800 - - Opening of Stones=20 - - How to Get Tickets - - About the Play - - What the Reviewers Say - - About the Cast - - About Center Street Theatre - - Producer's Note Opening of "Stones" - ------------------- CENTER STREET THEATRE, 50 WEST CENTER STREET, OREM, announces the = opening of its latest production, the award-winning "Stones," written = and directed by J. Scott Bronson. The production, which is actually two = one-act plays performed in repertory during the same evening, opens = March 13, 2003 and runs every Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday = through April 19. The first play, "Altars," is closely based on the = scriptural story of Abraham and Isaac, presenting an up-close look at = the concept of sacrifice, both in the literal, Old Testament sense, and = in the day-to-day giving up of one's self as a parent or family member. = The principle action of the play takes place at the top of Mt. Moriah, = the place of Isaac's Binding. The second play of the evening, "Tombs," is an exploration -- a frank = inquiry -- into the relationship between the Son of God and his mortal = mother. While the situation here is invented, Bronson feels that the = emotions connected to it must be as real as the people who surely felt = them. The principle action of this play takes place in Joseph's tomb as = Mary, the mother of Christ, prepares it for her husband's body. How to Get Tickets - ------------------ Ticket prices are 10 dollars General Admission, 9 dollars Senior = Citizens, and 8 dollars for students. Groups rates are 6 dollars for = groups of ten or more. No children under 12 will be admitted.=20 To reserve tickets, call the theatre box office at 801-225-3800 during = regular business hours. Tickets may also be purchased at the theatre box = office 50 West Center Street, Orem, between 4 and 6 PM Monday through = Saturday. PLEASE NOTE: As of this production, the Center Street Theatre will no = longer be presenting plays on Monday evenings. About the Play - -------------- "Stones" premiered at the Little Brown Theatre in 2001 and subsequently = won the Association for Mormon Letters Award for Best Play. Playwright = Bronson says: "I have a mission in life. That is to spread the word of = the gospel of Jesus Christ -- to build the kingdom of God on Earth -- by = writing and directing and acting in plays. The fact that I want to = spread the Gospel should not be surprising to anyone who knows anything = about Mormons. The fact that I want to spread the Gospel through = theatrical means should not be surprising to anyone who knows me. = Theatre is the only thing I'm any good at to any degree. And as far as = I'm concerned the Gospel and theatre are a pretty good match. After = all, the temple ceremony, as originally conceived, is a theatrical = event. This doesn't mean, however that I'm conventional in my = approach." In awarding "Stones" its Drama award, the Association for Mormon = Literature said in its citation: " 'Stones' is a perfect example of the = three keys to playwriting: Story, Character, and Dialogue. Both acts, = thousands of years apart in real time, appear outwardly to tell two = different stories. But the similarities in the themes of faith and = family reach across the years to bind the play into one coherent story = that is relevant today and will always be as long as humans walk the = earth.... "Stones" sets a new standard for Mormon drama in the = universality of its theme, the depth of its characterization, and the = poignant beauty of its words." What the Reviewers Say - ---------------------- "The emotional intensity is palpable, and 'Stones' is a cathartic, = enriching experience." -- Eric D. Snider, of the Daily Herald. "What wonderful, powerful plays you have written in 'Stones'!... they = were emotionally electrifying and emotionally challenging. Everyone = should see these!" -- Tim Slover, author of "Joyful Noise." About the Cast - -------------- Kathryn Laycock Little: Before starting her family, Kathryn, a native of Orem, Utah, lived in = New York City for several years where she performed Off-Broadway as a = charter member of the Manhattan Theater Ensemble. Kathryn has also = performed leads at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion in Los Angeles, The = Capitol Theater, Abravanel Hall, and Sundance Theater. She has been a = guest artist with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, the Utah Valley Symphony, = and the Utah Valley Choral. Some of her favorite stage credits include = the leading roles in "Camelot," "The King and I," "Kiss Me Kate," "Into = The Woods," "The Sound Of Music," and "The Music Man." You will also = hear her as narrator and/or soloist for numerous television and radio = commercials, films, books on tape, and CDs. Elwon Bakly: Elwon, being a native to Montana and an eight-year Washington tourist, = is fairly new to the Utah region. Elwon has been performing for well = over eight years in all aspects of the performing arts -- stage, film, = voice, etc. Recently Elwon has been seen in performances at the Hale = Center Theatre as the bitter Scot in "The Hasty Heart," and the = bewildered Englishman, Norman, in "Cash on Delivery," as well as in = "Deathtrap" for the Provo Theater Company. He can also be seen in the = DVD, "The Basket." Elwon loves his new family first and foremost and = misses them very much thanks to all the acting going on. Someday he = will be gifted the simple luxury of kissing his wife and children before = they sleep ... someday. J. Scott Bronson: A native of San Diego, where his love for theatre was also born, Scott = came to Utah twenty-one years ago so that his friend, John, would have a = room-mate while schooling at BYU. Scott soon got himself going to = school at BYU as well and continued his studies in theatre. After a few = years Scott fell in love with the incomparable Lynne Davis and got = married and got kids (five) and got stuck. While in Utah he has = performed in scores of stage and small screen productions. Scott is also = Artistic Director for the Nauvoo Theatrical Society. About Center Street Theatre - --------------------------- This production of "Stones" is presented at the Center = Street Theatre, 30 West Center Street, Orem, by the Nauvoo Theatrical = Society, a non-profit organization dedicated to the creation and = preservation of Mormon culture as found in the theatrical arts.=20 Producer's Note - --------------- I read the first act of "Stones" in Sunstone years ago and was = immediately stuck with its lyrical beauty, not all that common in plays = meant to be performed. As a work of two-dimensional art, "Stones" holds = its own with the best in Mormon literature -- it scans well, its = dialogue almost poetic in rhythm and content. When seeing it performed, = however -- as I was privileged to do two years ago -- one is transformed = beyond the beauty of the words to the living wonder of the lives those = words illuminate. It is with great pleasure that the Nauvoo Theatrical Society presents = the 2003 performance of "Stones." C. Thomas Duncan Executive Director The Nauvoo Theatrical Society "Mormon artists exploring Mormon life through theatre" - ---- Thom Duncan Nauvoo Theatrical Society in residence at the Center Street Theatre "Mormon artists exploring Mormon life through theatre" - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 14:56:38 -0700 From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Lit 2002 in Review: Short Stories Thanks to Andrew for another remarkably thorough year-end review. Just one comment. Andrew wrote: > Because of the Church's decision to no longer publish fiction > in The Friend and The New Era, the juvenile short story genre has completely > disappeared. Actually, the juvenile short story genre is alive and kicking. Happily, the genre's well-being was never dependent on the church periodicals. :-) Many of us LDS writers of juvenile fiction are publishing in magazines such as _Cricket_, _Ladybug_, _Cobblestones_, _American Girl_, and _Highlights for Children_. Thanks, Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:37:5 -0800 From: "Jeff Needle" Subject: Re: [AML] YOUNG, _Heresies of Nature_, KIMBALL, _The Marketing of Sister B_ (Review) Hello, Andrew Hall, Right on -- both books are wonderful in their own areas. The presence of such good literature makes all the effort worthwhile. Thanks for your thoughts on these books. Best regards. Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com 2003-03-04 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:45:15 -0700 From: Margaret Young Subject: RE: [AML] YOUNG, _Heresies of Nature_, KIMBALL, _The Marketing of Sister B_ (Review) [MOD: On Margaret's query... I'm reluctant to allow through posts on political questions, since this is the area, I've found, that pulls us off-topic fastest. But if anyone can find/use a Mormon literary tie-in, I'll entertain it.] I am always honored to be reviewed by such generous and brilliant folks as Andrew Hall, and to be paired with some of my favorite people--such as Linda Hoffman Kimball. Thank you, Andrew. Someday, when there's time (next year?) I'll write a report for the AML list about what Darius and I (and sometimes my foster son, Tyrece) did during our February "vacation." We hit Chicago, Houston, and DC. During our week off, my daughter had her gall bladder removed (with some complications) and I got to spend a couple of nights with her in the hospital. During that same week, Darius's computer went down and he did a genealogical seminar. You know, it's nice to have March here. Now a non-AML related question--unless someone can come up with a literary tie, in which case, I'd love to see it on list. The "Hate Crimes" bill got pulled from the Utah State senate. I have very deep feelings about this and simply don't understand WHY. I'm assuming it has to do with lobbyists afraid of gay rights, but the implications of not having the bill pass are pretty serious and extend far beyond the gay community. (And why would anyone think we shouldn't have a bill which protects gays from hate crimes?) If anyone out there has some insights into why it was pulled (I believe the Church even supported the bill), please e-mail me personally. If you can find a literary link (can I be it, having authored books about African American pioneers?) please post online. (Jonathan, this is your call.) Finally, please, all of you, mark the week of June 8th on your calendars. That is when Genesis will be celebrating the 25th anniversary of the priesthood revelation. I can't give more details yet, but I promise, you won't want to miss it! ________________ Margaret Young 1027 JKHB English Department Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602-6280 Tel: 801-422-4705 Fax: 801-422-0221 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:30:57 -0700 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Why Not PG? >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Amelia Parkin >harm (because their danger is mostly invisible and therefore >more insidious) >than most other films out there. If something ins invisible, how can it even affect us? I have a tough time with this idea that media has messages that affect us even if we don't know about it? Can you explain how something that is not noticed can be harmful? Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 17:07:46 -0700 From: Steve Perry Subject: Re: [AML] WILCOX/PERRY "From Cumorah's Hill" (BYU Newsnet) On Sunday, March 2, 2003, at 11:33 AM, Jamie Laulusa wrote: > Wouldn't that be nessesary? They're changing a contata into a musical > play, correct? Not really. Instead of readers facing the audience, they wanted the stories told to be acted out -- still not much longer than in the first place, but dramatic rather than presentational. S. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 18:03:30 -0700 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] _The RM_ >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of >thedemiurgus@xwizards.com >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:40 AM >To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: [AML] _The RM_ > > >Also, don't forget that it *is* a comedy, not a realism piece. This implies that comedies don't have to be believable. But the best comedies are always based on reality exaggerated for comedy sake. Farces don't have to be believable but again, there are rules for farces which was must also be followed. From what I've read, The _RM_ doesn't appear to be a farce. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 17:27:48 -0800 From: "Jongiorgi Enos" Subject: [AML] Introductions: Jongiorgi Enos Memo: A Letter Of Introduction To: The AML-List From: Jongiorgi Enos Well, howdy, ya'll. I finally did it. After years (yes, years) of = dancing around the idea, I have finally joined the AML and begun = faithfully reading The List. (Go ahead: laugh that I capitalized it.) = Yes it's true: I paid my dues, I have copies of Irreantum sitting around = on my desk, I download 30 e-mails a day, and I am frequently distracted = from the work of writing by the fun of reading. Actually, I already know many of you on the list. I have a lot of = friendships here and, of course, a lot of personal connection to much of = the work going on by AML members, both from my time at BYU and from my = work in LDS-related arts. I'm also vastly opinionated, infuriatingly = obstinate with many of those opinions, quite verbose, prone to = spontaneous expostulation, and otherwise seemingly very qualified for = the gab-fest which the AML-List so often is. So it might seem natural that I would have been a long-time subscriber. = But I have not been. No, in fact, several times over the years, I would log onto the archive = and just scan around, see if any particular thread caught my eye, and = far from being attracted, I have been, for the most part repelled, and = not wanted to be a part of a majority of the conversations happening on = your fair forum.=20 But then, recently, I began to detect a change. Perhaps the change was in myself. (Most likely it was.) But the story = I'm gonna stick with until they torture it out of me is that the LIST = changed (and not me). Yes, even though I suspect it might be a softening = of my own heart, a greater capacity for compassion towards the opinion = of others, etc., I'm gonna say that it was YOU guys that just started = getting smarter! Kind of like my dad (to steal from Mark Twain): when I was 7, dad was = pretty smart; when I was 17, dad had lost it!; when I was 37, the old = man seemed to have picked up a thing or two. Anyway, the list has started to get really entertaining! Whereas, in the = past, I got a sense that the List was just a bunch of whining by a lot = of wanna-bees, that holy (holier-than-thou?) opinion has had to be = modified of late. Yes, lately, I have read some wonderfully thought-out = remarks, laughed out loud at some deliciously ascorbic retorts (I love = intellectual debate, but I love a good comedic come-back even more!), = and followed some very interesting threads.=20 So, I have been entertained, enlightened and have begun (sneakily) to = feel a sense of community with the List (even with some of those whose = opinions I violently disagreed with) so that I could no longer simply = read like a ghostly voyeur: I had to join in. Of course, joining as a subscriber didn't mean that I would actually = participate.=20 For many weeks now (as a bone fide "Member"-Ooooooo!), I have read = posts, had violent reactions and comments to them, shouted my responses = out loud to the screen, then deleted the post and gone on with my work. = But I have never, until now, introduced myself to the group, nor have I = posted any comments to various threads. There are many reasons for this.=20 Frankly, one of the reasons is that I have a track record of a lifetime = of leaving bodies in my wake with my wicked tongue. And a wicked tongue = is bad enough. But at least when you've only said something out loud, = you can always deny it later. Saying something IN PRINT is very = dangerous. It sticks with you. Like-well, you know what like. This is = why the CIA owns stock in paper shredder companies. (Actually, shredding = is what you do with things you are proud you wrote! Real plausible = denial requires arson and hit men!) One of the things that I am trying to learn in this slow, slow toil = towards some kind of personal enlightenment and the achievement of a = modicum of grace, is that I am much better off when I shut up than when = I speak. My dad used to say, still does, I guess: Keep your mouth shut, = They'll think your crazy. Open it, they'll KNOW you are. Not that my family has noticed a difference in my personality, but I = think generally, as I age (and by the way, unlike many actors, I embrace = my ageing with relish) I am getting more mellow, more tolerant, more = easy-going. Again, my family would disagree, so I am talking about a = very relative scale change on a geological time-scale! But I have been charmed by following the thoughts and quips of the many = people on the List, many whom I respect, but also respectfully disagree = with, and I have begun to think that, in the proper forum, among the = right kinds of people, a certain dialogue can be healthy--especially = when moderated with as much tact as the List seems to be.=20 So I may begin to stick in my toe. (Actually, I already did, for the = first time, today.) Another mystery regarding my reticence to write in, is the fact that I = love the medium of the personal essay as a form of expression. I have = written essays for years, often times publishing them in private = circulars sent only out to the captive members of my family circle ("Him = AGAIN," I can hear them saying when they open the mail); and since my = marriage (over 10 years ago, now), I have published extensive Annual = Reports as part of our family history, which are really ill-disguised = excuses to publish essays, since they are only about 8 parts family = history and 2 parts (sometimes 3 or 4 parts!) introspective musings. So if I'm such an instinctual introspective muser anyhow, why not splash = some about the internet while I'm at it? I've asked that of myself, but = this I must enter slowly, testing the waters and trying not to offend.=20 So, as I said, I posted my first public response today, and I really = TRIED to be nice. It wasn't easy, and I think I may have failed. But = perhaps this little breaking of the ice will begin the flood (like that = Danish kid with the sore finger). Perhaps I will begin to feel = sufficiently comfortable enough to become an active member of your = august ranks. Until then (or as that happens): hello. My name is Jongiorgi ("Jon") Enos and I live in Northern California with = my wife and three kids. I am currently (and perhaps only temporarily) = blessed with the tenuous financial ability to be able write (plays, = screenplays and novels), act (once a twice a year) and produce (more and = more of that in the very recent past) on a full-time basis. We'll see if = it lasts.=20 One of my old missionary companions recently sent a "catching up" e-mail = after several years absence and asked: "Are you part of the LDS Brat = Pack?" I guess I am. Richard Dutcher and I were friends at the Y and = both moved down to LA at about the same time. I made out with his wife, = Gwen (on stage) and he made out with my sister (on the living room = floor) before he and Gwen even met, so I guess you could say we go back = a ways. (Yes, I was there every second of the shooting of Girl Crazy, = but No, I won't talk to you about it, either!) But can I say? (and this may sound corny, because in the midst of = intellectual discussion, joking around and the restrictions on propriety = created by a public forum, we don't get a lot of testimony-bearing = happening here) but I'd just like to stray briefly into the spiritual, = if I may:=20 I have a real testimony of the intensely important role of artists in = the Church. I have carried this testimony with me since I was twelve = years old. I have fought and struggled every year of my life since then, = and the changes we are seeing now are nothing short of miraculous-but we = have such a long way to go, too.=20 I believe that this forum can provide a very important training ground, = helping each of us learn to analyze, constructively critique, explore = and hone our discernment. And we can fortify one another for the = tremendous work we are engaged in: to use our skills in the arts to = (occasionally) help move forward the Kingdom of Zion, as Richard says: = one soul at a time.=20 This isn't our only goal, of course, and I do a lot of non-LDS stuff, = too. But another thing is happening to me as I age: I am writing more = and more LDS themed material and working more and more towards shifting = my career goals towards participating with greater and greater vigor in = the growing market of LDS Belle Lettres.=20 And this attraction isn't about money, its about a nagging urgency that = won't let go of me. There is a change in the wind, and our generation = has to be there to fill the need. Anyway, enough of that. Thanks for letting me join your group. Thanks to the unsung heroes who = organize, moderate and run this organization for no money, no glory and = with nothing to show for it but putting up with the likes of clowns like = us! I'm having fun, and I hope to have even more.=20 I'm a committed artist, and I know that the Gospel is true. I believe that you can fit into both of those categories and compromise = neither.=20 As a final note, I just want to say to Jeff Needle: "Get baptized, = Dammit!"=20 And to the rest of you: "Hootie-Hoo!" Ciao for now, Jongiorgi - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 20:32:06 -0700 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Programming as Art - ---Original Message From: Thom Duncan > > >books aren't art. Theater isn't art. I dare you to frame the > >last performance of "The Way We're Wired" tonight. > > Well, when people stopped coming in, we started the play. By > ten o-clock that night, we stopped. Isn't that a frame? > > Why would think "Wired" couldn't be framed? If you want to claim theater is framed, sure. But similar metaphor was rejected by D. Michael in his insistence that programming can't be art. If you look at frames metaphorically, then the whole "frame" definition of art becomes murky enough to have little meaning. A frame that separates art from "other" seems to me to be moving backwards--since most art is designed to connect rather than separate. Most art deliberately breaks framing down... Jacob Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:27:03 -0700 From: "Marianne Hales Harding" Subject: [AML] re: _Singles Ward_ Well, I finally saw Singles Ward last night. After all the chatter on the AML list I was anxious to see it and hate it for myself. :-) I was somewhat disappointed on that point because although I didn't find much to redeem the movie I wasn't able to muster up any passionate hate for it. Maybe that's because I'm somewhat removed (geographically) from the daily dramas of the Mormon Arts Family. Anyhow, the movie didn't transport me back to my own singles ward days (as I was assured it would by the person who lent me the DVD) and it didn't make me regret being a Mormon (loved that review, BTW, Eric). It was just a badly badly written film. And it felt like they filmed their first draft as a singles ward activity. Seriously, I am sure the filmmakers had more fun sitting in the local Hogi Yogi thinking up the film than anybody will ever have watching the film. It distinctly reminded me of a singles ward activity...the video scavenger hunt. FYI for the uninitiated: this activity consists of groups of singles running around Provo with video cameras and a list of things they must do at certain places in town (not the mall, as the mall has specifically banned such frivolity). Then you gather at a certain time to view the videos. No video would be complete without the random, goofy antics of the guys looking to impress the girls who are alternately shunning & participating in the goofy antics. Singles Ward, to me, was similarly random. Almost none of the jokes landed for me, esp. the cameos (and it's not because I didn't know who the people were...I knew). The cameos stopped the forward motion of the movie and were entirely random. Like they had to check it off on their video scavenger hunt. The goofiness was simply for goofiness' sake and though I'm sure they had fun filming it and I'm sure *they* had fun viewing it, the rest of us are not amused. Which is one reason why video scavenger hunt tapes don't get widely distributed. Two other observations: 1. The cruelest Mormon joke they could come up with is "7 brides for 1 brother"??? Didn't Pres. Hinkley make that joke in Conference once? (hyperbole here, folks....don't head to your Ensign shelf to find the reference) And this makes Cami cry? 2. I did actually love the pointed shot of Cami drinking a decaffeinated Coke. She's prudish *and* edgy at the same time :-) (for those without a Utah background: the truly prudish would eschew any form of the evil drink...and by prudish I do mean conservative because some of my best friends would rather smoke a cigarette than drink a Coke and I still love them. And they still love me (the sinner) while hating the sin.) Needless to say, I won't be seeking out The RM. Marianne Hales Harding _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #988 ******************************