From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V2 #89 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Tuesday, June 24 2003 Volume 02 : Number 089 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:52:16 -0400 From: "Richard Johnson" Subject: RE: [AML] _Paint Your Wagon_ (Review) Jerry Tyner: >I really like the movie and always will. I even tracked down the DVD. Actually, I picked up the DVD from the enormous box of 5.95 DVD's in our Wal-Mart's aisle display. Richard B. Johnson, Husband, Father, Grandfather, Actor, Director, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool. I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important- and most valuable. Http://www.PuppenRich.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:37:51 GMT From: "Jeffrey Needle" Subject: [AML] BARBER, Brad _Troy Through A Window_ (Review) Title: Troy Through a Window (videotape) Author: A film by Brad Barber Publisher: Entropy Productions (bradbarber@byu.edu) Year Published: 2002 Number of Pages: Video, 57 minutes Price: Not known Reviewed by Jeffrey Needle Having viewed this tape late in the evening, I decided to wait until the following evening to write this review. I wanted to make sure my own feelings about the video were sufficiently settled before expressing an opinion. "Troy" is Troy Barber. Brad is his brother. The Barber family is a hyper-typical LDS family -- white, middle-class, mom and dad together, six children. They attend church regularly, have a strong testimony of the truth of the Church, try to live the gospel as well as they can. Dad has been Stake President. One by one, the children get married, have children, and live rather normal Mormon lives. This, according to the mother, has been her dream - -- to raise healthy, moral children in the Church, and to keep the family very close, very intimate. But Troy has never married. In fact, Troy is gay. When he comes out to his parents, and subsequently to his siblings, it could not have been more of a shock. This video is a film project by Brad, one of the Barber children. Several years Troy's junior, Brad had looked to Troy as a role model and best friend. In fact, as it is described in the film, Brad idolized Troy. In fact, it was Troy who baptized Brad. Seven years after Troy's "coming out," Brad now wants to resolve the conflicts he feels within himself, and among his family, concerning their relationship to Troy and, by extension, their feelings, and the attitude of their Church, toward homosexuals and homosexuality. There is an edge to the film. And it kept me guessing. Has the family really accepted Troy's homosexuality? The words say "Yes," but the conflicted feelings are unmistakable. The one who most clearly sees this is Troy himself. While the parents, and some of the siblings, admit that they still have problems with Troy's sexual orientation, they understand that homosexuality wasn't his choice, they love him as a valued member of the family -- but, after all, wish he were like the rest of the family. Brad carries his camera from one family member to another, interviews each several times, and interleaves childhood memories, via movie clips, of happier times. One by one the family members express their love and acceptance of Troy, but the viewer just *knows* there's something else going on there. And, indeed there is, and it finally comes to the surface, as we learn of Troy's conviction that things simply aren't well in Zion. While he joins the family for holidays and is welcome in their homes, the closeness that was there is greatly diminished. For example, family members understand that, while they can bring their spouses and children to these celebrations, Troy can't bring his mate. Much is made of the incompatibility between Mormon doctrine and homosexuality. One of the sons explores the idea that you can be a loyal Mormon and still disagree on some points -- an idea that might have previously been considered subversive. Now it seems likely. I have strongly mixed feelings about this film. I understand Brad's desire to come to terms with this major shift in his family's self-identification. And he freely expresses his anger and disappointment with Troy, his bewilderment that his childhood hero could turn out to be gay. But his desire to come to terms with this is evident. There are aspects of the question I wish the filmmaker had explored more fully. While the Church's attitude toward homosexuality is alluded to, there isn't an extended discussion of this subject. But, then again, this is a personal memoir, not a doctrinal exposition. Brad and his family can deal further with the Church and its doctrine as time passes by. The title, "Troy Though a Window," turned out to have a double meaning. In the film's introduction, the "window" is the glass through which the family now views Troy. By the end of the film, I disagreed. The window became a pane, and indeed a pain, through which Troy now views his family and his Church. Near the end of the video, Troy's anger and frustration become clear, and overtly stated. He *doesn't* feel his family has completely accepted him and his sexual orientation. He *doesn't* feel his Church is supportive of him. Hard as the family might try to reconcile their faith and their upbringing to Troy's sexual orientation, it doesn't appear that they ever truly succeed. All confess that, while family was always first while growing up, it now seems to be fractured. And all due to an aspect of a favored son which they all admit was not chosen by him. And there's the rub, the real rub: the family loves Troy, they want the best for him, they refrain from being critical or judgmental, but there is still a sense of disappointment and anger below the surface. And while they try to hide it, Troy has little trouble seeing it. Troy is very capable of seeing the Church's hard line on morality as being necessarily exclusive of his sexual orientation. And although not expressed explicitly in the film, Troy must surely wonder how to reconcile his Church's teaching on the eternal nature of the family with the impact that Church's moral teachings have had on his own family. It's a real dilemma. Mormon families with gay/lesbian members will find much familiar here. Those not currently dealing with such a situation will find much of this puzzling. Brad Barber is to be commended for his fine effort to bring to the public eye the private pain of a conflicted family. I hope that they ultimately find the full healing they clearly desire. This video, all about building up and restoring family relationships, is produced by Entropy Productions. Can anyone say "ironic"? The video is distributed by: LDS Video Store 4618 Cedar Springs Road Dallas, TX 75219 ldsvideostore.com - ----------------------------------- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:44:38 -0600 From: "Paris Anderson" Subject: Re: [AML] Bookbinding Benson Parkinson Wrote: The finished book looked beautiful, but we discovered water from the wheat paste had leaked into the spine and wrinkled the pages near the stitching, so they don't turn smoothly. Then I noticed that the art paper was separating a little from the cloth in one place, and before long that bubble expanded to about 4 inches by 8 inches. The covers bowed too--I'm not sure why they didn't the first time, but I have to suspect the water in that wheat paste once again. I wrote: I suspect you didn't cook the paste long enough. Wheat starch works best. Five parts water to one part wheat starch. (A little more water is OK.) If you're cooking on a stove, keep stiring until the paste is a soft-solid like baby food. If it's in the microwave--zap it until it's a hard boil. The results should be mucus-like when it's hot. When it cools it will be chunky. If I understand correctly the cloth side of your second cover came loose and the cover wrapped. When the cloth came loose there was uneven tension on the cover board, so it bowed toward the side where the pasted surface was still intact. I don't know how to repair that. It could have happened because the paste wasn't strong enough (undercooked), or you didn't use enough, or you didn't have enough weight on top of it while it was drying (don't use too much--just a little--or the paste will bleed through the cloth or discolor it or it may cause the boards to wrap.) This may be slightly perverted, but I use pieces of old levi's for mull. In case bindings the mull is the strength of the book. Cheese cloth in'st strong enogh to last a hundred years. If you use 16-page signatures you don't have to trim. The problem with crinkling at the fold in the page may have to do with the grain of the paper. The grain has to run parallel to the spine of the book. If you don't like that problem, fold the sheets of paper the long way or figure some other way to get the grain parallel to the spine. If it's not that big a deal, it's not that big a deal. Good Luck, Paris Anderson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:58:13 -0700 From: "LauraMaery (Gold) Post" Subject: [AML] Re: Bookbinding >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:08:53 -0600 (MDT) >From: ben@parkinsonfamily.org >Subject: [AML] >The finished book looked beautiful, but we discovered water from the >whea=3D3D t paste had leaked into the spine and wrinkled the pages near >the stitching=3D3D , so they don=3D3D92t turn smoothly. ... >I=3D3D92m ready to go at it again. We=3D3D92ll probably try Elmers glue next >or g=3D3D o back to Sobo.=20 Thanks, Ben, for this fascinating account of your bookbinding experience...(though by golly, I'd sure appreciate it if you and others would submit plain text to the list, rather than whatever caused the improbably difficult read quoted above ). [Assist Mod: That's probably my fault. I'm still working out the formatting kinks.] Y'enyway, I'm unfamiliar with "Sobo" glue (Looked it up on the Web and found this somewhat tawdry poem ), but I'm wondering whether you've attempted to use good ole' rubber cement for glueing? The proper way to use rubber cement, to prevent the warping you've experienced (or the goopiness you disdain), is to brush a light coat on both surfaces and wait for it to dry. When dry, the two surfaces -- even if the materials are dissimilar -- adhere very nicely, without warping, buckling or sliding. I became quite fond of rubber cement when I worked with page galleys in Asia. In the States I've always used hot wax to adhere galleys to pages, but that was impractical in Hong Kong or Taiwan, where hot wax would melt on the way to the printer. Sigh. But rubber cement did the trick! (And that should also answer your question about whether I've noticed changes in the material world since the 1980s. Uh, that's a big 10-4. ) - --lauramaery - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:25:35 -0700 From: "Levi Peterson" Subject: Re: [AML] New Dialogue editors Thanks to Christopher for letting people know about the new editorial = =3D team. Please note the submissions address, which I am in charge of. =3D Although theoretically our team wasn't to begin work till January 1, in =3D reality we find ourselves already calling for papers. The outgoing team, =3D the Chandlers, appear to have enough papers to finish their issues. So, =3D if you have a good personal essay or a cogent article on a Mormon issue, =3D send it along to DialogueMSS@aol.com. Printed copies are also welcome = =3D but we prefer electronic submissions in Word or WordPerfect. Levi Levi Peterson althlevip@msn.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:10:23 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Out of Town Jonathan Langford wrote: > I will be out of town for the next three days. In my absence, Jacob=20 > Proffitt will be proceeding as assistant moderator. However, if he (or > you) has anything that raises questions for my review, I won't be able > to get back to them until the weekend/Monday. Just so you know. Hey, Jacob. Just sneak the controversial ones through while Jonathan is away. He'll never know. Let's have some fun for three days! [Asst Mod: What, you're not having fun, now?] - --=20 D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 01:23:48 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] _Paint Your Wagon_ (Review) Eric Samuelsen wrote: > Besides, here are the lyrics, best I can remember them: >=20 > Away out here, they've got a name, for rain and wind and fire The rain > is Tess, the fire Joel, and they call the wind Maria. (Muh RYE uh) >=20 > I mean, talk about someone left the cake out in the rain. That someone would be Alan Jay Lerner of Lerner & Loewe, the ones who also did "My Fair Lady," one of the most sophisticated, witty musicals ever written. Guess they can't all be gems. - --=20 D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:13:10 EDT From: JanaRiess@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] _Paint Your Wagon_ (Review) >Away out here, they've got a name, for rain and wind and fire The rain=20 >is Tess, the fire Joel, and they call the wind Maria. (Muh RYE uh) Not to put a fine a point on it, but the fire in this esteemed song is=20 actually Jo, not Joel. The elements are all named after women. I'm embarrassed to=20 admit that I used to know it by heart . . . . Jana Riess - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:26:00 -0600 From: Marny Parkin Subject: [AML] BYU "Education in Zion" Exhibit Education in Zion Exhibit Invites Public to Share Stories of Learning Stories are needed to bring to life a permanent, multi-media exhibit,=20 Education in Zion, to be housed in a gallery in the new Joseph F.=20 Smith building now under construction on the Brigham Young University=20 campus, in Provo, Utah. Terry Warner, exhibit coordinator, says this is the first time that=20 stories about the educational heritage of members of The Church of=20 Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will have been archived and=20 exhibited on a large scale. Ideas for stories include, but are not limited to the following=20 categories that will be specific sections in the exhibit: traditions=20 of faith and learning, foundations of education in the restored=20 gospel, early schools in Zion, education in the family and extending=20 learning to all the world, (including distance learning, Church=20 Education System, and the Perpetual Education Fund.) "We know the stories are out there. This is our chance to collect=20 them and use them to inspire us and generations to come to seek=20 learning in the light," says Warner. Learn more online at Mormon Life=20 (http://deseretbook.com/mormon-life/people-places/one-article?articleid=3D= 3094). To submit stories write to the Education in Zion project at B-34 110A=20 Provo, Utah 84602, fax 801-422-0110 or e-mail stories@byu.edu. To=20 volunteer and learn more about the project visit=20 http://exhibit.byu.edu (http://exhibit.byu.edu) or call 801-422-1986. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:28:21 -0700 From: "Jeff Needle" Subject: RE: [AML] Plain Text (was Bookbinding) Sigh. I'm in complete agreement about plain text. I wish this would be everyone's default. - ---------------- Jeffrey Needle jeff.needle@general.com (or, if there's a bounce) jeffneedle@tns.net - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:33:06 -0600 From: Sam Payne Subject: Re: [AML] _Paint Your Wagon_ (Review) There's a funny old Muppet Show episode where Kermit's nephew, Robin, has been assigned to sing some cutesy number for the show, but all he wants to sing is "They Call the Wind Maria." He wants to have a shot at singing a big song, a manly song instead of a cute kid song. He and Kermit argue about it backstage through the whole episode, and finally, at the end of the episode, Robin takes the stage, ostensibly to sing the cutesy song. But he's tipped the band or something, and they play "Maria" anyway, and he sings it in this little mousy (froggy) voice, and gets through about half a verse when the big wooden hook comes in from stage right and yanks him off his chair and away out of sight with a tiny yelp. Don't know why I share that, particularly, except that maybe as odd a Brigham Young as Harve Presnell may have made at BYU, perhaps it could have been worse. - -Sam Payne - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:43:27 -0600 From: Melissa Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Mormonism and Feminism On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:06:F -0600, Jennifer Vaughn wrote: >I believe that men often make this mistake in communicating to women >as if women are men--there *is* a very, compelling, objective reason >to make the distinction. I'm sure you are familiar with Deborah >Tannen's books, which, unfortunately, are sometimes lumped in with the >poor-in-science/rich-in-zeitgiest genre of self-help books. But >basically she states that women's communication styles often reflect a >relationship-maintaining objective and men's communication styles >often reflect a get-the-job-done objective. I'm very fond of Deborah Tannen and Jacob and I use her terms when communication starts breaking down--"do you want a masculine or a feminine response to that question, dear?" Here's something I've found startling lately in female discourse. I'll be griping about something with a woman in my ward, expecting to get the "oh I know just how you feel" feminine response. Instead I get masculine-style solutions, though still presented in a relationship-building manner. The real shock was not the response I'd gotten, but that I'd expected something very different from a woman. Bad, bad, sexist me. :) Seriously, while I don't think this is enough of a sample pool to draw global conclusions from, it's made me pay more attention to see whether feminine discourse, if only on this small scale, really is changing. > Personally, I believe >that both styles are needed, and an imbalance of one style can be >ineffective. Literature tie-in--as a woman, I would much rather read >about relationships (any Oprah Book) than objectives (Tom Clancy). Feminine vs. masculine texts? :) Which ought not to be construed to mean that only women like "feminine" texts and only men like "masculine" texts, of course. It's just an interesting way to look at it. One aspect of feminist literary study talks about the separation of sex and gender--sex being the biological component and gender being sociological or cultural. What interests me about this idea is not just the mutability of gender (more commonly referred to as "gender roles") but that such characteristics aren't inscrutable or alien to the opposite sex. That, in fact, masculine and feminine traits could (probably should) both be present in men and women, but that they don't define what it is to be a man or a woman.=20 We talked about this just a little bit a while back in discussing books that teens (male and female) would read. There are "masculine" books--action-oriented, focused on conflict, physicality, establishing a hierarchy. There are "feminine" books--relationship-oriented, romantic, also hierarchical but with more subtlety. And yet boys will read the feminine books and girls will read masculine books. Boys can be tender; girls can be tough. And I think those qualities make them better human beings, in the end. For my part (and to give a literature example from the other side) I love Michael Crichton's techno-thrillers, but I hate the way in recent years he's started making characterization and relationships more important to his stories. That's not why I'm reading his books. I wish he'd dump the characterization nonsense and get back to important stuff like discussing viral spread or genetic mutation. :) Melissa Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:01:09 -0600 From: Margaret Young Subject: RE: [AML] Sunday Evening Genesis Branch I think Darius and I are so tired right now that signings are far from our minds. We're ready for a little break! However, we do have some things scheduled in Virginia in September and in Dallas in October. But right now, we're officially on vacation! ________________ Margaret Young 1027 JKHB English Department Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602-6280 Tel: 801-422-4705 Fax: 801-422-0221 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:04:05 -0600 From: "David and Dianna Graham" Subject: [AML] Gender in Literature (was Mormonism and Feminism) Jennifer Vaughn said: >I believe that men often make this mistake in communicating to women as >if women are men--there >*is* a very, compelling, objective reason to make the distinction. And Barbara Hume added: >Women make the same mistake in treating men the way we like to be=20 >treated, and in wondering >what's wrong with them when they don't behave as we do. We need to=20 >learn all we can about the >hard-wired and societally induced differences. The lit connection is=20 >that when we write >characters of the opposite gender, we want to get them right. I'm assuming that in that last line ("when we write characters of the opposite gender, we want to get them right.") you are meaning to specifically "get right" the description of the individual and their behavior based on his/her _specific_ "hard-wired and societally induced differences." It's either too difficult or too easy to get it right when writing about the opposite gender these days, because many could reasonably argue that men and women are acting more and more like each other everyday. I'm going to cite a piece of pop-lit, and I'm going to be scorned for this, I know. But you know that fun little book Men are from Mars, Women are From Venus? It is completely unimpressive (especially to my mother-in-law, who is a Sociologist and professor, and who tends to prefer textbooks when it comes to stuff on gender). Anyway, the mention of this book is a sensitive issue in our family, because she once loudly proclaimed that it was garbage at a family reunion while one of her nieces was reading it. I boldly (and probably really stupidly) called out, "I love that book." It may have made my mother-in-law bristle a little, but her niece seemed grateful for the validation I gave her. Anyway, I do really think it's a great book, not because it definitively describes male and female behavior. (Even John Grey acknowledges in the Intro that no man or woman is strictly either Martian or Venusian). Rather the greatness of the book lies in how useful and practical it can be. Grey describes the way different kinds of minds approach different situations. Then he describes an opposite approach. He explains the reasoning behind both, he unassigns blame, and then he describes some ways opposite minds can meet and reason with one another. It's fascinating. Anyway, my point to mentioning the book is that, in the years since I first read it (when I had been dating someone who had a lot of Martian characteristics), I've realized more and more that most of the people I deal with are such mixes when it comes to gender. This is not about sexual matters, rather it's about what Jennifer and Barbara mentioned, the way men and women communicate with one another (which is, of course, not unrelated to sexual matters). Even more interesting is how we tend to adapt to the individuals we're dealing with. Since I'm rather far from being articulate right now, I'll give an example. The first time I read Mars and Venus, I was (unbeknownst to me) on the verge of being dumped by a guy I'd been dating for about 6 or 7 months. We'd had some rocky times since we had started discussing the issue of marriage (a sign, perhaps). I was feeling completely unready and was emotional and wanting validation for my feelings, and he was in a cave fasting a praying over the issue (which, in my opinion, was a non-issue at the time seeing as we were in a long distance relationship and were unsure when we'd ever live in the same state again. Anyway, I digress...) Well, we had a stupid fight because we were thinking in two totally different languages, and then I went on Christmas vacation to my Dad's place in Connecticut, and I while I was there I read the Mars and Venus book. I felt so comforted and enlightened. I suddenly really saw connections between situations described in the book and my relationship with my soon-to-be-ex. The punch line is that while I was making resolutions to communicate better and be more patient, he was resolving to call me on New Year's Day and put an end to our relationship. Cruel as it may have seemed, I was relieved to know before I rushed back to Utah in order to spend a week with him before the new semester. Now, let's time-travel a few years ahead, and I'm now married to a totally different person. Unlike the music-major, son of a police officer and home-maker, whom I'd once dealt with, my husband is a film/advertising graduate, son of a music teacher/genealogist/financial planner (dad) and a Sociology professor (mom). Dianna is no longer a vulnerable, open nerve starving for validation. I've got all the validation I could ever wish for in my husband, who also needs it back from me as much as I do. Also, when I get angry, and I want to avoid saying mean things (if I am mature enough to avoid saying them, that is, which I'm not always) I bite my tongue and take a trip to my cave (or do the dishes, take a shower, read a little or clean the house). He's convinced I'm giving him the silent treatment, and I'm just trying to sort things out in my head and for once not behave like an idiot. Where I was once almost pure Venus, I'm now very Martian at times. Now the above description of my marriage isn't a perfect summary of our lives or anything like that, but my point in sharing it is that, in regards to how men and women are written, the sky's the limit. We can describe any sort of individual, and it would probably work as long as there's some good detail on background, etc. It's so fantastic. One of the greatest things about theatre (especially about acting, for me) is that it gives us an opportunity to empathize with individuals completely unlike ourselves. Well, writing different flavors of men and women can in other forms of literature (or, of course, putting them on stage and in film) can do just that. It can pull us out of ourselves and put us in the shoes of another and see the reason behind various approaches to communication, work, sex, etc. All of this is probably a "duh" statement, but it's fascinating. Now, all of that lot said, I would agree that there are some very distinctive differences between purely male and female behavior, especially the younger individuals are. Once a man or woman hits college and has been in the mix for a while, though, it seems that so many of us have evolved into these emotional deli-platters. (Sorry, I couldn't think of a non-food term. I must be hungry. The other options were "Jell-O-salads", "casseroles", and that foreign word that I can't spell, but that sounds like "Smorgasbord." Sorry). Dianna Graham - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:00:01 -0600 (MDT) From: ben@parkinsonfamily.org Subject: RE: [AML] Bookbinding I'm not sure what caused all the garbage characters in my last post. Hopefully this will come through cleaner. Thanks to Paris and LauraMaery for their replies. Paris wrote: > I suspect you didn't cook the paste long enough. Wheat starch works=20 > best. Five parts water to one part wheat starch. (A little more water=20 > is > OK.) If you're cooking on a stove, keep stiring until the paste is a > soft-solid like baby food. If it's in the microwave--zap it until it's > a hard boil. The results should be mucus-like when it's hot. When it > cools it will be chunky. We'll give this a try. I sure liked wheat paste for other reasons and was pretty disappointed with the wrinkling and that it didn't quite hold up. When you get it to the "mucus" stage, is it tacky like Elmer's glue? > If I understand correctly the cloth side of your second cover came=20 > loose and the cover wrapped. When the cloth came loose there was=20 > uneven tension on the cover board, so it bowed toward the side where=20 > the pasted surface was still intact. I don't know how to repair that. > It could have happened because the paste wasn't strong enough=20 > (undercooked), or you didn't use enough, or you didn't have enough=20 > weight on top of it while it was drying (don't use too much--just a=20 > little--or the paste will bleed through the cloth or discolor it or it > may cause the boards to wrap.) Actually the cloth stayed down pretty good. The art paper came up though, and it seemed to start with the thin strip where the art paper overlapped the cloth. Your advice probably still applies. > This may be slightly perverted, but I use pieces of old levi's for=20 > mull. In case bindings the mull is the strength of the book. Cheese=20 > cloth in'st strong enogh to last a hundred years. Doesn't the blue cloth show through your end papers? Is the cloth uneven to where you have trouble getting it to lie flat against the spine or under the end papers? Anyway, this advice makes me think we ought to prefer muslin over cheesecloth, anyway. > If you use 16-page signatures you don't have to trim. Hmmmm. That's attractive. (Of course it would be twice as much work to sew.) Is it smooth on the edge or just slightly ragged? > The problem with crinkling at the fold in the page may have to do with > the grain of the paper. The grain has to run parallel to the spine of > the book. If you don't like that problem, fold the sheets of paper the > long way or figure some other way to get the grain parallel to the=20 > spine. If it's not that big a deal, it's not that big a deal. Good=20 > Luck, Do you think the grain would generally run the long ways on a piece of legal paper? What about ledger paper? My next book project will involve folding ledger paper, and it seems to me I'd get the same problem, since I print two pages per side in landscape mode. LauraMaery wrote: > Y'enyway, I'm unfamiliar with "Sobo" glue (Looked it up on the Web and > found this somewhat tawdry poem=20 > ), Robin, who knows chemistry and most everything physical and practical, says Sobo glue is a PVA glue similar to Elmer's glue (another PVA glue). We also tried something called Yes glue, which worked pretty good but was hard to spread. > but > I'm wondering whether you've attempted to use good ole' rubber cement=20 > for glueing? > The proper way to use rubber cement, to prevent the warping you've=20 > experienced (or the goopiness you disdain), is to brush a light coat=20 > on both surfaces and wait for it to dry. When dry, the two surfaces -- > even if the materials are dissimilar -- adhere very nicely, without=20 > warping, buckling or sliding. Interesting suggestion. Do you think it would be permanent over the decades? Paris (and others), any insights into the strength or longevity of rubber cement? LauraMaery also commented on pasting up. We haven't done pasteup where I work for years, and recently we've eliminated bluelines and are now eliminating film and going directly from electronic to plate. It occurred to me the other day that I, the editor, and the graphic artist I work with, now do the work of the editor, the typist, the proofreader (both necessary because you were editing hard copy), the designer, the typesetter, the color stripper, and maybe someone else in prepress or press prep. We've begun archiving in hi-res PDF, I think in response to the fact that our film only seems to last 16 years or so and a lot of our books are in print 20 or 25 years, so you wind up either scanning the film and making a PDF from that or retypesetting electronically--both expensive propositions. Now whether today's PDFs will be readable in 25 years is anyone's guess. Ben Parkinson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:36:52 -0600 From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] William F. BUCKLEY, _Getting it Right_ On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:09:45 -0600 "Nan P. McCulloch" writes: > Does the author have a responsibility to balance a wayward character > with a believing practicing character in a novel? Not at all. But, if the author expects ME to believe the character is "real' then he will have to do some homework and devise some method for making me believe. For instance, if the author TELLS me that the character is a staunch Latter-day Saint, but demonstrates to me that he has no idea what that means, then he has lost me as a sympathetic reader. That's all. But, if he doesn't care about losing LDS people (or people who know what it means to be LDS) as readers, then he is free to be footloose and fancy with the details. BTW, this is part of my problem with Angels in America. On one level, I just don't think Kushner cared if he got all the details right. I think he was most concerned with making good use of some Mormon iconic imagery. And he did. He was under no obligation to please me however. I don't think I was part of his intended audience. scott - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V2 #89 *****************************