From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V2 #101 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Thursday, July 10 2003 Volume 02 : Number 101 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:59:39 -0500 From: "Thom Duncan, from the Web" Subject: [AML] RE: GLBT If we prefer the name Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints, or LDS, over Mormon, then I think members of the gay community can call themselves whatever they want. We should allow minority groups to names themselves whatever they think is appopriate and we should, in the interest of fairness and tolerance, use their terms over our own. This is especially true if one chooses to right of such groups in any kind of literay or offical manner. All gloves are off, however, when writing ficitonally. Thom Duncan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:05:04 -0600 From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: RE: [AML] re: GLBT Hey, why don't we call them Glibbits, instead of Gee-ell-bee-tees. Has a nice ring to it, a telling mix of "glib" and "ribbit." Maybe they are glib that no one has yet kissed them and turned them back into a hetero. It also brings to mind "rabbit," but that manifestly doesn't apply, does it. Chris Bigelow - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:34:32 -0500 From: "Thom Duncan, from the Web" Subject: Re: [AML] Ken Sanders July Book Sale Anything by Ken Sanders or any other LDS rare book dealer ought to be made available to us. They offer a great service to those of us who are hopelessly addicted to reading as well as writing. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:28:00 -0600 From: "Bill Willson" Subject: [AML] Re: GLBT Monday, July 07, 2003 9:10 PMD. Michael Martindale said: >surely we can think of a creative term for the lot of >"them." (GLBT). ________________ How about - Reproductively Idiosyncratic or RI - ?????? Just a thought. 8-) Regards, Bill Willson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:53:31 GMT From: daryoung@juno.com Subject: Re: [AML] Dealing with Our Past Harlowe said: "We forget, of course, to hold ourselves as readers to the high standards we impose on our writers, but not on those poor light-of-the-Gospel-less genitals." Ha-ha-ha-ha! Only Harlowe could get away with analyzing exactly to what extent genitals have access to the light of the Gospel. I love Harlowe's posts. They stick in my mind and change the way I think and write. Hurray for Hollow Cluck! - -Darn Clean 'N Young p.s. What's the latest on our favorite LDS theater in Orem? Thom? Scott? ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:41:20 -0600 From: "Kim Madsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Ken Sanders July Book Sale Mod asked: "I'd appreciate a sample of opinions from people on whether you think this is appropriate for AML-List, and why or why not." Kim Madsen: I appreciate finding out about things like this. I think the list is perfectly acceptable. It was handled diplomatically. I've had nothing but trouble for two years in trying to search out excellent LDS literature. The fact that somebody is proactively telling me about availability is refreshing. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:11:14 -0600 From: "Kim Madsen" Subject: [AML] RE: GLBT D. Michael M. says: "And if they can come up with the word "gay" to stand for "homosexual," surely we can think of a creative term for the lot of "them."" I like "smorgies" for those of the sexual smorgasboard persuasion. But certainly someone will point out the orgy connection embedded in that which wasn't intended at all. Or maybe "smorger". Or maybe a better choice would be CTA for Choose Them All. Kim - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:17:36 -0400 From: "S. Malmrose" Subject: Re: [AML] GLBT From: "Preston Hunter" >If somebody is gay, but not GLBT, I do not refer to them as GLBT. And if >somebody is GLBT but not homosexual, I do not call them homosexual. Not all >Gays and lesbians are GLBT, just as not all people in the GLBT community are >Gays, lesbians, bisexuals or transexuals. You pretty much lost me here? I asked my non-member gay brothers about this term, since I was unfamiliar with it, and mentioned to them the original post about it being potentially offensive to gays, lesbians, bi's, or transexuals to be lumped together like that. (Yes, count them, I have not one, but two gay brothers. I also have a gay uncle, a gay cousin, a cousin who makes his living as a drag queen--he was even in The Bird Cage!--and another cousin who had a sex change.) My brothers replied that they think they are "lumped together" because they all face similiar issues politically, socially, etc. One brother commented that he'd never had a close friend who was a lesbian, that among his social circle bi's are generally regarded as gays who haven't yet fully accepted their homosexuality or are not ready to let go of the heterosexual world, and my other brother said that he thinks transgendered people are greatly misunderstood, mainly because people are not familiar enough with them. And he summed it up well when he said the following: "of course i'm not very fond of labels, i know it's convenient for politcal reasons or understanding certain things. but when you get right down to it we all fall under the label of human, the subdivisions aren't so important." Susan M - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:23:04 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Ken Sanders July Book Sale > [MOD: I'm not sure whether I think this is appropriate or not for AML-List. I mean, we allow book signings and such. The fact that something is commercial is not inherently a problem for AML-List, if it's also relevant to the list topic and helps to further the cause of Mormon letters. This seems like a borderline case. So in addition to reading this message, I'd appreciate a sample of opinions from people on whether you think this is appropriate for AML-List, and why or why not. Why wouldn't it be? I don't even see it as controversial. Why wouldn't we want to hear about opportunities to purchase used and rare LDS books? - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:17:01 -0700 From: "Richard B. Johnson" Subject: RE: [AML] Dealing with Our Past I am not sure of the total readership, but I gave about 20 copies as gifts after I received mine the same way. I am reminded of an experience several years ago at Deseret Book. I was scanning the shelves during one of my visits to my BYU student children. A woman came up to me and asked if I knew of any books about Emma. I guided her to _Mormon Enigma_, and gave it an enthusiastic recommendation. One of the clerks, overhearing me came over and said (in essence) "Let me show you a "real" book about Emma, and showed her another volume. I (quite loudly) asserted the _Mormon Enigma_ was one of the great church books of our time. I received, in return, a dirty look, but the customer left with _Mormon Enigma_ (and the "other" book, I don't remember the title.) Richard B. Johnson; Husband, Father, Grandfather, Actor, Director, Puppeteer, Teacher, Playwright, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool. I sometimes think that the last persona is most important and most valuable. Http://PuppenRich.com > -----Original Message----- > On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:46:57 -0600 "Brown" writes: > > Thank you, both Lisa Tait and Margaret Young, for filling in the name > > of the Tippetts and Newell book, which I had forgotten. (If one is > > lazy on the list, just put out a question, get an answer?) I remember > > how well how the Mormon audience did not take easily to the > > historical material in that volume. > > Actually, the Mormon audience mostly ignored it. I would suspect its > total readership is a smaller number of people, by an order of magnitude > or two, than the number of LDS along the Wasatch Front who watched the > Seinfeld episode on channel 13 at 10:30. > - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:20:45 -0600 From: "Jennifer Vaughn" Subject: RE: [AML] GLBT >among his social circle bi's are generally regarded as gays who haven't = yet fully accepted their >homosexuality or are not ready to let go of = the heterosexual world, Hence the phrase, "Bi now, gay later." - --Jennifer Breinholt [MOD: I think this may be the worst single pun I have ever witnessed on AML-List...] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:53:20 -0500 From: "Thom Duncan, from the Web" Subject: [AML] Nauvoo Theatrical Society (was: Dealing with Our Past) - --- Original Message --- From: daryoung@juno.com >p.s. What's the latest on our favorite LDS theater in Orem? Thom? Scott? The Nauvoo Theatrical Society will be moving to the Villa Theatre in Springville. The Brown's are renting it to us for half the price we paid at the last place. We're taking the summer off to regroup but plan to launch a new season starting in September. Of course, we'll let all our fellow AML'ers know as soon as we get the calendar in stone. Thom Duncan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:30:13 -0600 From: "Eugene Woodbury" Subject: Re: [AML] GLBT > If we prefer the name Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- > day Saints, or LDS, over Mormon, then I think members > of the gay community can call themselves whatever they > want. True, but while we're on the subject, I prefer Mormon. Always have, always will. It functions perfectly fine as noun and adjective, is formed of only two syllables fronted by euphonious labial consonants, and semantically identifies the church's distinguishing--defining--characteristic without a lot of footnotes. What a good name should do. I cringe every time I hear a Utah reporter do the politically necessary thing (is it like the White House press office and if you tick off the church spokesman he won't give you the next sit-down interview with a famous GA?), take a deep breath and bore through the whole ChurchofJesusChristofLatterdaySaints appellation. The prosody is atrocious. It totally messes up the narrative flow of any discussion. You can't possibly repeat it twice in a paragraph so subsequent references tend to be reduced to the anaphoric "church," as in "the church," like "the state" or "the government." Not a great improvement. Catholics, Protestants, Baptists, Lutherans, etc. have no problem maintaining their Christian inclusivity without such ponderous in-name attributions. Do we not perhaps protest too much? Or do we really believe that a rose isn't a rose by any other name? As Michael Martindale points out in the most recent Irreantum, "The fraction of Christians who believe our uniqueness disqualifies us from being categorized as Christians will never change their mind no matter what we do . . . and the rest don't care." And as someone who grew up in the "mission field" (New York), I must emphasize how much they really don't, regardless of what we call ourselves, or the point size used in our logos. Eugene Woodbury - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V2 #101 ******************************