From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V2 #260 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Thursday, February 12 2004 Volume 02 : Number 260 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 20:51:09 -0500 From: Sam Brown Subject: [AML] inauthentic characters in Angels Hello, Thom called my imprecision; bless him for it. I still think I'm right, but it may be an uphill battle to demonstrate it. I would reiterate, there is nothing about their actions that excludes their Mormonism. There are thousands of different ways to be Mormon. My sense is still that it's their carriage, a term Thom does not like, in part because it's lazy of me. I should disclaim that I= don't think this play is really about Mormonism, so I don't see it as a huge flaw that these characters are inauthentic. There are 3 Mormon characters: Joe, his wife, and his mother. I can't remember all their names, so I'll call them Joe, wife, and mom. I've tried to think of some thought experiments to investigate this thought that the Mormon characters were inauthentic. 1. See whether the characters fit more tightly with some other demographic or tradition. While there is often overlap in people or characters, there should not be another demographic that better accounts for the distinctness of a character if we want to demonstrate that a given demographic is authentically portrayed (though I can see room for argument here, particularly when a tradition like Mormonism has been trying to squeeze itself into evangelical Protestant casings for several decades. I believe that, thank heavens, we have not been entirely successful in that endeavor and there is still a reason to try to distinguish a Mormon from a= Nebraskan in the Moral Majority). That said: Joe is an over-achieving Iowan Baptist. Aside from the powerful naking scene on the beach, I don't see anything that doesn't fit this. He is well-dressed, well-mannered in public, awkward around intense emotion, naive, speaks with the flat tones of the mid-west. Importantly he lacks the strained charisma of the Mormons I know that are most similar to him. Wife is a depressed New Yorker who discovers she is married to an unfaithful homosexual. She has the accent of a New York intellectual, and she decays the way I have come to expect of them from other film portrayals. Her ghosts are not the Mormon ghosts that my similarly tormented Mormon friends describe to me. There is nothing of the actual culture or experience of Mormonism in her speech. Kushner defends himself by having Joe notice that he chose her because she never fits in, and there are Mormons who try doggedly to be New Yorkers, but then what is the significance of her being Mormon? Her emptiness with betrayal and her baseline drug addiction are not distinctively Mormon when I watch them. Mom is a homemaker from Wisconsin. Her accent is vaguely midwestern, she is stern and somewhat fussy. Her language does not reflect that of a Mormon mother who would tell her son to hang up and get ahold of himself when he comes out of the closet. I've met a lot of women from her generation throughout Utah, and she doesn't carry it off to my eye. I was going to pursue more, but this email is overlong, and I think this is a peripheral issue. Finally, I will admit one very Mormon aspect to Mom that I think is intentional. Stereotypically, we as a people are adamantly conservative. Our voting behavior, our bookstore's self-censorship, the public teachings of many of our leaders and prominent citizens all confirm this. But when you sit us down with someone suffering, we try our Relief Society damnedest to help them out. We are, usually, as nice as we are intolerant, and that's a paradox of Mormonism. Mom does just that. She becomes the matriarch of a clan of twenty-something homosexuals after starting as a traditionally homophobic Wisconsiner. - -- Yours, Samuel Brown, MD Massachusetts General Hospital sam@vecna.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:51:15 -0500 From: Rose Green Subject: Re: [AML] Young and Gray >Which brings me to one last suggestion. In terms of something more >softer and palatable, I suggest you do a compilation of these books >in a form for younger readers. Yes! I've seen a number of black-themed picture books lately, but unfortunately, some of them are "local" (We Support Our Local Authors, even= if they aren't great). The ones that *are* good, however, really resonate with me, even though I'm pale, pasty white. I would LOVE (how strongly can= I say that?) a picture book (that was well-written, of course) that was Mormon-African-American. I would definitely buy something like that. Rose Green - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:00:25 -0700 From: Steve Perry Subject: Re: [AML] The Weyland Path (was Young and Gray) On Feb 5, 2004, at 10:05 PM, D. Michael Martindale wrote: >> When I quit trying to follow the Weyland=3D > path. I'm glad you found the Margaret path, Margaret, but I sort of hate to see the Weyland path disparaged -- finding the Weyland path may have been just the ticket for Weyland. :-) Steve P. - -- skperry@mac.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:06:19 -0700 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Marketing you work Jacob Proffitt wrote: > given. I *do* want you to succeed and I want our literature to improve= and > continue to mature. I just think that it'll do so much faster if we can > gain the trust of our culture and to let them know that we love them. > We talk on this subject as if our culture is monolithic. I just do not believe this is so. As I sit and type this, I can think of the following kinds of people who self-identify as active Mormon and yet who also live lifestyles and have philosophies and political ideas that are as "non-Mormon" as you might think. I speak of active open and closeted gays, a Mormon narc, intellectuals, closet doubters, Democrats, Socialists, members of the RLDS church (yes, who are also simultaneously LDS), blacks, Chinese, Japanese, French, Science fiction geeks, people who read only romances, others who like MTV, some who pay for the Spice channel. I know Mormon polygamists, again open and those yet closeted, single mothers, adults active LDS single and active who don't consider oral sex a sin. Though my research of sexual deviancy for a play on which I am currently working, I have become aware of active Mormons for whom incest is an expected sign of parental love. I know Mormon nudists who are also Bishops and High Priests. Don't those people need to read about themselves in our literature as mush as do Mark and Molly Mormon and their kids, Brigham, LaDawn, Esther, LaShawna, Bruce, Spenser, and Gordon? If I read Margaret right, I'm sensing a desire on her part to express literary ideas and tell stories about that branch of the Mormon tree, the misfits, or those who don't fit into the mold, or who are perhaps disenfranchised for whatever reason, who, though different, still want to be involved in the church. (Or I may be reading into her post because that is the audience I feel compelled to address). And, if those people may want to read about themselves, maybe the rest (and perhaps majority) of the "normal" reading public should also read about their fellow brothers and sisters. Through normal Church interactions, they're certainly not going to know that Brother Smith is a secret nudist who, along with wife, hikes up Provo Canyon on Sundays in the summer-time to doff their clothes and dip themselves into a hot spring with his wife twenty other people of both sexes. Maybe if they learn that Sister Jameson has a host of scriptural reasons for being a feminist, they will expand their minds and stop thinking that all feminists are atheistic dykes. Let Jack Weyland speak to his audience. All the success in the world to Gerald Lund. But would we even dare think of asking them to change their audience? (Yet seem to have no problem in suggesting that Margaret consider do so.) I say to everyone: "Write to your own audience." D. Michael needs to know that he is not the only person in a church of ten million who could appreciate _Brother Brigham_. J. Scott Bronson's _The Whipping Boy_ can surely be appreciated by more than the fifteen of us on this list who have read it. Don't compromise. For, if there is anything that is uniquely Mormon that we should all share, it is the idea that we don't compromise our beliefs for anyone. "Do what is right, let the consequence follow." Thom Duncan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:19:09 -0700 From: Margaret Blair Young Subject: Re: [AML] Young and Gray Melissa, thank you so much for your sweet response. I find that I do not= have the edge to me which I had even a month ago. (I chose not to post some of= the specific things Darius and I were dealing with in marketing--and will= continue to keep those confidential.) I think I will say something which will sound= like the worst kind of spiritual arrogance, but here goes anyway: I firmly= believe that writing _Standing on the Promises_ was a calling, that Darius and I= were brought together by the hand of God, and that that hand continues to guide= the project. I believe Darius and I are little more than tools in a much= larger mission. It may well be that our books are more for African American= readers than white readers, and at last, I'm okay with that. I have been lovingly rebuked by a gentle, Heavenly voice which has persuaded me that I have been= not only impatient but have been seeking after the honors of men and higher royalties; that I've forgotten why we wrote the books in the first place,= and that by so doing, I have lost the whole spirit of our "mission." I feel a= bit shy saying all of this, because it sounds like I'm setting myself up as a= sort of savior to all black Mormons. Nonetheless, I feel it firmly. Let me say= that I have never claimed any of my other works was a mission. This one is. It= was consecrated from the beginning, as feeble an offering as it may be. I know= many white readers simply will not want to read the trilogy. I'm glad they have other things to read which will bolster them where they are. I have been in process of getting back where I need to be and remembering who's actually= in charge. It's not me; it's not Darius; it's not Deseret Book. I have a bulldozer mentality, but I am trying hard to put the bulldozer away and be still. I'm hearing interesting things in that stillness. [Margaret Young] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:35:50 -0600 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: Re: [AML] YOUNG & GRAY, _Standing on the Promises_ >Jacob wrote: >If someone doesn't trust you, it is probably wise to work on that=3D > trust *before* you try to teach, inform, or even to share. It'd be= wiser=3D > to build community--find common cause. I'd say that anyone wishing to= deal=3D > with anything weighty, the hard subjects so-to-speak, had better take= some=3D > steps first to build a better relationship with the Mormon audience= before=3D > they waste their time building intricate, potentially caustic mousetraps.= =3D I'm sympathetic with one of what I think are Jacob's underlying premises: that is to say, I think that the Mormon discomfort with some art by Mormons has a lot to do with lack of trust, a sense that the writers are not talking about things in a way that demonstrates a community of belief. Personally, I find that for any institution I care strongly about--my family, my profession, my church (not in that order)--I'm much more willing to listen to potentially critical thoughts when the tone demonstrates a shared commitment, as opposed to a general rejection. Practically speaking, though, I'm not sure that the course Jacob recommends is a really good solution to the problem. First, I think that matters of trust have more to do with how something is discussed than with what is discussed. Partly for that reason, I'm not really sure that trust transfers from one work to another--that people learn to trust in one work, then apply that trust to a different work. Instead, practically thinking I suspect that people make the decision to trust largely on a page-by-page and paragraph-by-paragraph basis. Second, as I think Margaret's reply demonstrates, I don't think it's a particularly conscious choice of the artist what he or she decides to write about. I remember a discussion with Marion Smith at BYU about whether science fiction or fantasy was harder to write. His opinion (rather surprisingly to me) was that he thought it was a largely moot point, since people seemed to be drawn to write one particular type of fiction or another, rather than choosing to do one type or another. In fact, it seems to me that writing in this way--attempting to build up trust with more "faith-promoting" works, with the intention of using that built up goodwill as a way of taking the audience with you into trickier areas--could easily become an exercise in manipulation, though I think that's the exact opposite of what Jacob intends. Then again, as I reread what Jacob actually said, I think I may be misinterpreting it. I notice that he says to build common cause and build your relationship with your audience. I interpreted that, as I think Margaret did, as meaning to start up with writing certain kinds of works, then working up to harder works. But maybe what he's talking about is an internal process of building up your own identification with the audience--making sure you love and care about and share with them before (or perhaps instead of) trying to write TO them. In which case he may very well be right... Jonathan Langford Babbling for myself, and for everyone's general amusement, but not in my capacity as AML-List moderator... - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:06:34 -0600 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: Re: [AML] Angels in America The review by Daniel Mendelsohn, quoted by Jongiorgi Enos, seems to me to echo some of the problems I have with the play. I agree that the play is brilliant, but also that it is (as I've said before) extremely uncharitable when it comes to the character of Joe, and rather smugly self-assured in its assumptions about who is right and who is wrong and what attitudes are right and what attitudes are wrong in its moral world. Kushner may undercut his characters, but he never doubts his own attitudes--which is a flaw if you're looking for non-doctrinaire answers, whether the person giving those answers is a middle-class white politically conservative Mormon or a New York liberal secular jewish gay. Jonathan Langford Speaking for myself, not AML-List - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:52:50 -0700 From: "Paris Anderson" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Near-Death Literature --why the question? Susan Malmrose wrote: I seem to remember Eadie explaining this by saying something to the effect= of--people will not be shocked out of their belief system. However she put= it, it sort of made sense to me at the time. Me wrote: I've had a few "otherworldly" experiences in the last few years, and I dare say Mormons will be equally as shocked and perplexed as anyone else. And the more passionately individuals hold to their beliefs, the more overwhelmed they'll be. Susan Malmrose wrote: It makes sense to me that people we know and love will be there to welcome us to the other side, especially if we're unprepared to see Christ= or HF directly at the time. She told my sister that my sister's son Joey, who died at the age of 2, was there to lead Darryl away, and she said she saw Darryl put his= hand in Joey's. My parents were at Darryl's side when he died, and just before= he passed, he reached up his hand and said, "Oh God, help me." Whether it's true or not, I don't know, but I like to think of little= Joey being the one to help Darryl adjust to whatever was in store for him. Me again: That's a beautiful story. Thank you for telling it. Paris Anderson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 07:45:09 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Hansen Subject: Re: [AML] The Weyland Path (was Young and Gray) > I'm with Margaret on this one. ("The Weyland > Path"--I like that.) My > first book, "Brother Brigham," sure won't ingratiate > me or build any > trust with the typical Deseret Book customer. But it > was the story I had > to write. If I'd tried "The Weyland Path" or "The > Lund Path," I either > wouldn't have written it or would have written > dreck. I just wrote a > story that interested me about a Mormon family. I > didn't think about who > the audience was or whether it would sell. Everyone > else around me > did--universally one of the first criticisms out of > people's mouths was, > "Whose the audience?" The question was irrelevant to > me. I didn't CARE > who the audience was. The audience was me. I wrote > what I would have > liked to read. To hell with whoever doesn't like it. > This is one of the frustrations I often have with songwriting workshops that I attend. They are often so wrapped up in "being a songwriter" (by that I mean writing songs that will be picked up by publishers and ultimately cut by a major artist) that they are at a loss for "BEING songwriters" (having lost the ability to use song to express themselves). This saddens me, because I often feel that the self-expression brings out the best songs. MRKH =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mark Hansen +++++ Inspirational Rock Music http://markhansenmusic.com Listen to me and others at http://kzion.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 07:09:33 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Hansen Subject: Re: [AML] (The Onion A.V. Club) Review of _Latter Days_ > Writer-director C. Jay Cox=3D > and his distributor are crying censorship, but > they're really trying to=3D > have it both ways: They release a movie that > belittles a community, and=3D > then express outrage when that community doesn't > want to show it. I've always had a problem with situations like this. A Privately owned and operated system (be it theater, publisher, record label, or what have you) decides that a particular media work isn't suitable for their audience (for whatever reason), and someone screams, "CENSORSHIP!" The work is not being surpressed or even opressed. It just has one rejection. Get over it. Move on to another outlet. MRKH =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mark Hansen +++++ Inspirational Rock Music http://markhansenmusic.com Listen to me and others at http://kzion.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:13:35 -0800 (PST) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] Deseret News: Salt Lake Library A Tourist Hot Spot (Editorial note: I spend 4 or 5 hours a week in this library. It's a very cool place. And I understand it's the site for one of the sessions of the AML meeting in March.--R.W.R.) Deseret Morning News, Sunday, February 08, 2004 Library a top tourist hot spot S.L. facility is a surprising hit as it turns year old By Lynn Arave Deseret Morning News The new Salt Lake City Library was Utah's surprise tourist attraction for 2003. The Salt Lake City Library turns 1 year old today. It has received more than 3 million visits in that year. The $84 million, 240,000-square-foot library at 210 E. 400 South, which opened Feb. 8, 2003, had 3, 077,316 visitors during its first year of operation, ranking it behind Temple Square (5-7 million visitors among Utah's top attractions. With only 11 months of operation last year, it still beat Zion National Park and Glen Canyon National Recreation Area. "That surprises me," said Tracie Cayford, media relations director for the Utah Travel Council, said, explaining the council just released its top 25 tourist attractions for 2003. The council hadn't even considered putting the new library on the list. It was just too new. "Libraries are economic engines," Cayford said and in that sense the library's magnetic qualities don't surprise her. Today is the library's one-year birthday and Nancy Tessman, Salt Lake Library director, said she too is surprised when she sees how well the facility has done in various numerical categories. The numbers all are higher than she would have predicted. "It really is a community center," she said. "It's a remarkable public place." Mayor Rocky Anderson's dream that the library would become a gathering place has definitely been realized. Divided out, its 3 million visitors in the past year would equal an average of more than 9,400 visitors a day. The library uses a digital counter at its door and so the number of visitors is likely very accurate. If anything, it might undercount when several people walk in a door side-by-side. Tessman said it is also surprising that the library hosted more than 1,000 different community groups or functions during the past year. From meetings to parties to weddings to lectures, the library has had an approximate 80 percent capacity rate on its group facilities for the past year. "It's been fun to see all these events," she said. In fact, one full-time staff member does nothing now except schedule the library's public events. The library's business tenants also reported they are doing well. Tessman is certain a significant number of Salt Lake residents haven't yet visited the library. "I can tell when I run into people who are visiting here for the first time." she said. "Their eyes are looking up." Although she admits the new library may have broken several traditional library rules, the grand rule should still be civility and it has done well in that regard. Portions of the library may not be as quiet as some people may prefer compared with what they are used to in most libraries. The presence of food and drink in the library is another exception to library rules of the past. But Tessman agrees this is a 21st century library. She's proud of the building itself and how well it has performed. A few issues are being settled with the contractor before the one-year warranty expires, including problems with cracking stone around the building's perimeter. The library's main revolving door on its northwest side was still being repaired as of Friday. It's not that the three million visitors wore it out. Some glass was damaged recently by some men pushing too hard on the glass. The Salt Lake City Library was one of the recipients of the 2004 American Institute of Architects Honor Awards for Outstanding Architecture. It also received five other honors for architecture. E-mail: lynn@desnews.com Copyright 2004 Deseret News Publishing Company =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:23:11 -0700 From: Melissa Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] 2003 Mormon Literature bibliography Just a correction: On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 06:54:09 +0000, Andrew Hall wrote: >Leavitt, Martine Bates. Heck, Superhero. Front Street Press, May. Age =3D 9-12. >A boy on the streets encounters harsh reality. The release date for this has been moved back to April 2004. Melissa Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:32:16 -0800 From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Near-Death Literature I was referring to a BYU professor, not a General Authority. I seem to remember noticing a distinct quiet on the part of the brethren. The fuss seemed to eminate from those who style themselves to be protectors of Mormon Orthrodoxy, as seems to frequently be the case in a number of bruhahas. One of the complaints I remember was that she had shared something that was "too sacred". That's one of those oddball indiscretions in our culture that has become some kind of pseudosin. Nothing that should earn any formal discipline, but certainly cause frowns of disappoval and the dreaded seal of inappropriateness. While I can see the wisdom in keeping certain experiences close to one's own heart, especially when the mocking factor could be brutal and the chance for gossip multiplied, some experiences are so extraordinary that a person might feel to share it to get some perspective. I'm certainly glad Joseph thought to share and get some perspective on his most extraordinary experience. And he really withstood a lot of heat for it, did he not? Imagine if he'd kept it to himself. ;-) As I understand it, Eadie was encouraged by those around her to share her experiences in book form. The thought being it could help others and bring them comfort. I'm sorry she gave Tony the brush-off. But I suspect she'd already been getting a lot of grief by that time, still no excuse for rudeness. Evangelicals thinking she was a Mormon mole, and her own people feeling she might be preaching false or confusing doctrine, sheesh. Her story, when it was featured on 20/20 was treated with a lot of skepticism, especially by one of the hosts, Hugh Downs. Yet, when they did a newspiece on Past Life Regression and specifically one woman who thought she might be the reincarnation of an Irish mother and met some of the surviving children, that story was treated quite tenderly and very noncritically, including by Mr. Downs. Almost they pursuaded me to believe. ;-) I happen to know a lot of people who do believe in this, and I treat them with respect and am open to what they have to say, I just expect the same about my beliefs. As to what Thom has mentioned, as far as I've read, most of NDEs are generic enough as to not confirm nor deny many points of specific religions, but of a form of existence after death. But I do believe Dr. Raymond Moody did speak to people that considered themselves athiests or agnostics and found themselves shocked or pleasantly surprised to still have a form of consciousness. He also had an account of a man who tried to commit suicide in order to be with his wife and experienced negative consequences in his NDE. I think these accounts are in his "Life After Life" books. I suppose whom we see in these events has as much to do with who we not only love and respect, but who we might accept wisdom and messages from, and if Aunt Hattie is the best figure for the job, than so be it. :) As to the other thing Thom and Dr. Brown brought up: I'm well aware of the phenomenon of the dying brain possibly being responsible for these experiences. I can honestly say I believe it's some of both. The chemicals released contributing to, and the experiences being beyond that of a physiological process. It also points to a Supreme Being with a sense of humor to create such a conundrum. A type of event that could really make people wonder and be open to life after death, yet a physical process of a dying brain that could explain the whole thing. No real empirical evidence-that's why they call it Faith. And each must find out such things for themselves, probably through a spiritual witness which cannot be physically shared with another. But if related, in the form of speech or writing. Imperfect as that can be, it can make for anecdotal, comforting accounts, or marvelous stories such as the great one I'm sure Dr. Brown will write and share with the rest of us, or the stage version Thom will present us with. Looking forward to all of it. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:56:10 +1100 From: "Covell, Jason" Subject: [AML] Orthography 101: capitalised definite article in Church's name? A big hello to everyone in AML-world (hello!), and time to beg your lord- and ladyships' forbearance by airing a question that has plagued me for= some time. OK, I don't know if it's just me, or if I missed the memo (could be), or if it's an Australian thing, but what _gives_ with the practice of always capitalising the article ("The") preceding the Church's name, as in this recent snippet from a Church mailing list: "...part of a larger group of= 160 missionaries who belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" When did the mandated use of a capitalised article come about? I don't= have page references to all the relevant style guides, but I work in a professional writing/editorial (and spin-doctoring) capacity and I'm pretty sure this doesn't click with generally accepted contemporary usage. I= would have said that the article would not be capitalised unless it actually= began a sentence: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today announced that..." At all other times, orthography would dictate that a lower-case "the" would be used. I've raised the question with local Church members, and the best reasoning= I hear is that it emphasises that the Church is really "The" Church, not just any church. But hey, I thought that was what the definite article= signified anyway!? For what it's worth, I consider this to be quite a different issue from the recent Church memo suggesting that the Church may be referred to as simply the "Church of Jesus Christ" following an initial full citation of the= name. For one thing, I don't have a problem with this: anyone has the right to state how they want themselves or their group to be addressed. And media outlets seem to have a corresponding right to ignore that preference and just use "Mormon Church" or whatever else they want. That's fine for both sides. We can ask, but we can't insist or force others to use our= preferred nomenclature. (I also came up with this usage independently several years ago, so maybe I feel flattered too!) But the other point is that it's a very different thing from trying to endforce an unusual orthographical usage - that, to me, seems quite a different order of request. And please, please, folks: this isn't a bash. I mean, if there's been an _explicit_ revelation on this precise orthographical point (there have been stranger things), then I can accept that. I may not find it easy, but I can live with it. But otherwise, I just think it comes across as awkward. And asking editors and style authorities to bend a well-established rule just because you say so isn't going to wash. Whaddaya think? Jason Covell Senior Review Officer 9716 2365 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:23:11 -0700 From: Melissa Proffitt Subject: [AML] THAYER, _The Conversion of Jeff Williams_ On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:31:55 -0700, Margaret Young wrote: >And I have one suggestion: Let's all buy Doug Thayer's >novel. He blazed the trail. Let's support his work now. If the list=3D3D > could >give "extra credit", every person who buys two or more copies of _The >Conversion of Jeff Williams_ should get 10 points. I plan on making my >purchase ASAP. I would buy it if only I could find it in a store somewhere! Barnes &= Noble told me it was "unavailable for ordering," which to them usually means it's out of print. Amazon.com says it takes 1-2 months to ship. Sam Weller's online inventory says its status is "special order," which could mean anything. Deseret Book says it's not in their catalog at all and can't be ordered by them. The BYU BOOKSTORE doesn't even have it and he teaches at BYU! As far as I can tell, I can order it from Signature, and that's all. Considering the praise the book has received, I'm very surprised at this. Melissa Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 23:53:21 -0700 From: Melissa Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] YOUNG & GRAY, _Standing on the Promises_ On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:35:50 -0600, Jonathan Langford wrote: >Practically speaking, though, I'm not sure that the course Jacob=3D20 >recommends is a really good solution to the problem. First, I think=3D20 >that matters of trust have more to do with how something is discussed=3D20 >than with what is discussed. Partly for that reason, I'm not really=3D20 >sure that trust transfers from one work to another--that people learn=3D20 >to trust in one work, then apply that trust to a different work.=3D20 >Instead, practically thinking I suspect that people make the decision=3D20 >to trust largely on a page-by-page and paragraph-by-paragraph basis. I don't think this is always the case, myself. Many readers make their buying/reading decisions based on what they know of one author or series. In researching books for the AML awards this year, I discovered this to be particularly true of LDS fiction; readers who are fans of a particular author or series will buy (or check out) every book by that author or in that series because they depend on every book being similar where it counts--particularly in the hows of discussing certain subjects. In this sense, the readers' trust *does* carry over from one book to the next. Readers who desire to be safe--to avoid graphically described violence or sex and to not read profanity--are looking for that promise, the absence of those things, and will follow an author whom they can trust to fulfil those needs. (I also think that Covenant made an amazing marketing decision in using the same typeface for all their books. Talk about establishing a look-and-feel interface.) Because I know that I, personally, make my decisions in the way Jonathan describes above, I think we may be talking about two different groups of readers--possibly more than that. Different people read for different reasons, so why not different readers extending trust to authors for different reasons? If this could be concretely established, it might be= yet another way to build bridges between reading communities...my own= hobbyhorse and private passion. Melissa Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V2 #260 ******************************