From: "Jeff S." Subject: BB: SaddleSore 1000 ride interest Date: 02 Jul 2003 08:59:14 -0700 (PDT) BB'rs Last night it was suggested to me that we organize a long distance ride. I have often thought about doing one of these events but never got around to it. Well OK here we go. The ironbutt association offers a 1000 mile/24 hr ride for a certification. We will organize several 1000 mile routes along with the appropriate documentation and forms. On a set date (TBA) we can all meet at BMW of Salt Lake for a group start. You can check the ironbutt web page (www.ironbutt.com) for the rules and details. If this sounds like something you would be interested in, then email me or see me at the next club meeting. I copied the following from the Ironbutt web site. -Jeff SaddleSore History Prior to 1993, the Iron Butt Association did not certify 1000-in-1 rides. To that point we referred riders to other organizations. Unfortunately, that occasionally turned out to be a mistake. In some cases, organizations that claimed to have rides didn't, while others took riders' money and never delivered promised awards. Although it was never the Iron Butt Association's intention to certify 1,000-in-1 rides, the number of letters we received asking to do so had become staggering. With some serious pushing from our members, we agreed to certify a variety of long distance rides. At this same time, the IBA had been working closely with Les Martin at the California Motocycle Touring Association (CMTA) for ride certifications taking place in California, Nevada and Oregon. As it turns out our decision to gear up for ride certifications came about the same time Les Martin had announced he was retiring (1993). With Les moving on to a (hopefully!) more relaxed lifestyle, we were sad to see the rich history of the SaddleSore and BunBurner rides he had been working so hard on for so many years to be lost. It only took a few minutes of discussion of our plans with Les before he decided to donate both the SaddleSore and BunBurner names to the Iron Butt Association. During the CMTA days, the SaddleSore was 1,000 miles in 24 hours day certification and the BunBurner was 1,500 miles in 36 hours. The IBA renamed the rides slightly, the SaddleSore became the SaddleSore 1000 (1,000 miles in 24 hours) and the BunBurner became the BunBurner 1500 (1,500 miles in 36 hours). At the same time, we created the BunBurner GOLD (1,500 miles in 24 hours) as so many riders had "unofficially" been documented since the early 1980s. We hope that we can continue the quality and tradition of the ride to which Les Martin devoted so many years of his life. If you meet Les, please remember to give him your thanks! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Swan555@aol.com Subject: Re: BB: SaddleSore 1000 ride interest Date: 02 Jul 2003 12:44:00 EDT --part1_43.1f2c13ea.2c3465d0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff: Please take this in the spirit it is offered, but I have mixed feelings about this being organized as a club function. Ever since we had a group ride about ten years ago and someone died as a result of an accident I have avoided group rides and worry about any kind of liability on the club's part. As I said please take this in the spirit of how it is being offered, just a lone voice in the wlderness. Crit --part1_43.1f2c13ea.2c3465d0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeff: Please take this in the spirit it is offered, bu= t I have mixed feelings about this being organized as a club function. Ever=20= since we had a group ride about ten years ago and someone died as a result o= f an accident I have avoided group rides and worry about any kind of liabili= ty on the club's part. As I said please take this in the spirit of how it is= being offered, just a lone voice in the wlderness.
Crit --part1_43.1f2c13ea.2c3465d0_boundary-- **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JMerrick" Subject: Re: BB: SaddleSore 1000 ride interest Date: 02 Jul 2003 10:55:43 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C34088.7BE83010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Amen not a lone voice but perhaps a voice of reason. I don't recall the = particular incident BUT I do think peer pressure among other things such = as fatigue impaired judgment can put an inexperienced individual into = harms way when the should have quit for the day 300 miles ago. As an = individual thing if you have been training and preparing just like = running a marathon it's probably ok but as a club I would not want to = sponsor it. jmho Big John "It matters NOT what you Ride" "Only THAT you Ride" "Ride With Pride" 'Large' President=20 Blue Knights Utah Chapter I=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Swan555@aol.com=20 To: jtstokes@yahoo.com ; beehive-beemers@xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:44 AM Subject: Re: BB: SaddleSore 1000 ride interest Jeff: Please take this in the spirit it is offered, but I have mixed = feelings about this being organized as a club function. Ever since we = had a group ride about ten years ago and someone died as a result of an = accident I have avoided group rides and worry about any kind of = liability on the club's part. As I said please take this in the spirit = of how it is being offered, just a lone voice in the wlderness. Crit=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C34088.7BE83010 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Amen not a lone voice but perhaps a = voice of=20 reason. I don't recall the particular incident BUT I do think peer = pressure=20 among other things such as fatigue impaired judgment can put an=20 inexperienced individual into harms way when the should have quit for = the day=20 300 miles ago. As an individual thing if you have been training and = preparing=20 just like running a marathon it's probably ok but as a club I would not = want to=20 sponsor it.
jmho Big John
"It matters NOT what you Ride"
"Only THAT you Ride"
"Ride = With Pride"=20 'Large' President
Blue Knights Utah Chapter I
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Swan555@aol.com=20
To: jtstokes@yahoo.com ; beehive-beemers@xmission.com= =20
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 = 10:44=20 AM
Subject: Re: BB: SaddleSore = 1000 ride=20 interest

Jeff: Please take this in the spirit it is = offered, but I=20 have mixed feelings about this being organized as a club function. = Ever since=20 we had a group ride about ten years ago and someone died as a result = of an=20 accident I have avoided group rides and worry about any kind of = liability on=20 the club's part. As I said please take this in the spirit of how it is = being=20 offered, just a lone voice in the wlderness.
Crit=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C34088.7BE83010-- **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thane M Beckstrand Subject: BB: Saddlesore Date: 02 Jul 2003 12:51:24 -0600 Jeff... It is my observation that endurance riding traditionally had been an individual endeavor. However, I have noted that small groups have on occasion found it advantageous to join in such activities. Such an activity should not be approached casually as there are fatique and conditioning issues to take into consideration. Endurance riding is not for everyone, but for those who like to ride, and enjoy being physically and mentally challenged beyond the "normal" day ride, it is a very stimulating experience. With that said, and noting Crit and John's objections and cautions, I would support the club's efforts to facilitate such an activity, just as we encourage participation in other club activities. I see no harm in identifying possible routes that would satisfy the IBA's requirements and appeal to a variety of riding styles and personal preferences, and to determine possible dates and times. It would then be up to the individual to determine if they are qualified, to select a date, and to choose a solo or group format. Like John always says: "It matters not what you ride, only that you ride." Thane **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff S." Subject: BB: saddle sore Date: 02 Jul 2003 12:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Thane, thanks for your post,, My initial posting was misleading in that my intention was that we could meet and start at the same location due to the paperwork requirements for the certification. I didnt mean to imply that we would be riding as a group (sorry). The club involvement would be limited to suggesting some possible routes. Setting a start location and pointing interested people to the IronButt web site. pretty much exactly and you stated in your email. Jeff __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andy Sager" Subject: Re: BB: SaddleSore 1000 ride interest Date: 02 Jul 2003 15:27:42 -0400 Jeff, I would be interested in participating. I have always wanted to do a SS1000 and having a date set and knowing that others will be there as well will help me fulfill one of my goals and get that coveted plaque and license plate cover. I will be the first to sign any kind of form relinquishing the club of any liability and that I am riding by my own free will and choice. Also, I would expect everyone that participates in the ride to know their limitations and be honest with themselves as to thier readiness to begin a ride of this nature and to be able to evaluate thier status throughout the ride. The ultimate goal is to have fun and stay alive doing it. If someone in the group has a different goal, I would choose to distance myself from them. Jeff, let me know what I can do to help set this up. If we have to not call it a Beehive Beemers SS1000 attempt and a handful of us want to do it. Let's do it. Currently an Aluminum Butt with full intentions of converting to Iron Butt. Andy > BB'rs > Last night it was suggested to me that we organize a > long distance ride. I have often thought about doing > one of these events but never got around to it. Well > OK here we go. The ironbutt association offers a 1000 > mile/24 hr ride for a certification. We will > organize several 1000 mile routes along with the > appropriate documentation and forms. On a set date > (TBA) we can all meet at BMW of Salt Lake for a group > start. You can check the ironbutt web page > (www.ironbutt.com) for the rules and details. If > this sounds like something you would be interested in, > then email me or see me at the next club meeting. > > I copied the following from the Ironbutt web site. > -Jeff > > SaddleSore History > Prior to 1993, the Iron Butt Association did not > certify 1000-in-1 rides. To that point we referred > riders to other organizations. Unfortunately, that > occasionally turned out to be a mistake. In some > cases, organizations that claimed to have rides > didn't, while others took riders' money and never > delivered promised awards. > > Although it was never the Iron Butt Association's > intention to certify 1,000-in-1 rides, the number of > letters we received asking to do so had become > staggering. With some serious pushing from our > members, we agreed to certify a variety of long > distance rides. At this same time, the IBA had been > working closely with Les Martin at the California > Motocycle Touring Association (CMTA) for ride > certifications taking place in California, Nevada and > Oregon. As it turns out our decision to gear up for > ride certifications came about the same time Les > Martin had announced he was retiring (1993). With Les > moving on to a (hopefully!) more relaxed lifestyle, we > were sad to see the rich history of the SaddleSore and > BunBurner rides he had been working so hard on for so > many years to be lost. It only took a few minutes of > discussion of our plans with Les before he decided to > donate both the SaddleSore and BunBurner names to the > Iron Butt Association. During the CMTA days, the > SaddleSore was 1,000 miles in 24 hours day > certification and the BunBurner was 1,500 miles in 36 > hours. The IBA renamed the rides slightly, the > SaddleSore became the SaddleSore 1000 (1,000 miles in > 24 hours) and the BunBurner became the BunBurner 1500 > (1,500 miles in 36 hours). At the same time, we > created the BunBurner GOLD (1,500 miles in 24 hours) > as so many riders had "unofficially" been documented > since the early 1980s. > > We hope that we can continue the quality and tradition > of the ride to which Les Martin devoted so many years > of his life. If you meet Les, please remember to give > him your thanks! > > > **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff S." Subject: BB: Victor Weekend Date: 08 Jul 2003 09:33:25 -0700 (PDT) BB'ers Coming up on Aug 1,2 and 3 is our annual Victor campout weekend in Victor, Id. This is one of my favorite annual rides. Victor is a scenic little town just a short ride from Jackson Hole, Wy. Here is the web site for the campground. http://www.tenting-hostels.com/tvc/ I hope to see you all there. regards Jeff Stokes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff S." Subject: BB: Another web site for the campground Date: 08 Jul 2003 09:56:10 -0700 (PDT) http://www.tetonvalleycampground.com/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JMerrick" Subject: BB: Minutes of Meeting 6/14/03 Date: 08 Jul 2003 22:49:28 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C345A3.30334CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To those who voted to sell the roster along with my name and address for = $.20 thanks for nothing. I really need more S*** cluttering up my = mailbox! I'd ask to have my name deleted but it's probably already done. Big John ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C345A3.30334CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To those who voted to sell the roster = along with my=20 name and address for $.20 thanks for nothing. I really need more S*** = cluttering=20 up my mailbox! I'd ask to have my name deleted but it's probably already = done.
Big John
------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C345A3.30334CC0-- **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JMerrick" Subject: Re: BB: Minutes of Meeting 6/14/03 Date: 08 Jul 2003 23:06:55 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C345A5.A069E240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: BB: Minutes of Meeting 6/14/03Thank God somebody has a brain, what = was $.20 times the membership $25.00 ??? jm ---- Original Message -----=20 From: Dan Fazzini Jr.=20 To: JMerrick=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:54 PM Subject: Re: BB: Minutes of Meeting 6/14/03 It was vetoed by the board the following day (before we sold it) From: "JMerrick" Reply-To: "JMerrick" Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:49:28 -0600 To: "beemers buletin board" Subject: BB: Minutes of Meeting 6/14/03 To those who voted to sell the roster along with my name and address = for $.20 thanks for nothing. I really need more S*** cluttering up my = mailbox! I'd ask to have my name deleted but it's probably already done. Big John ------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C345A5.A069E240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: BB: Minutes of Meeting 6/14/03
Thank God somebody has a brain, what = was $.20 times=20 the membership $25.00 ???
jm
---- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dan = Fazzini Jr.=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 = 10:54=20 PM
Subject: Re: BB: Minutes of = Meeting=20 6/14/03

It was vetoed by the board the = following day=20 (before we sold it)

From: "JMerrick" <bklarge@concentric.net>
= Reply-To:=20 "JMerrick" <bklarge@concentric.net>
= Date:=20 Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:49:28 -0600
To: "beemers buletin = board"=20 <beehive-beemers@xmission.com= >
Subject:=20 BB: Minutes of Meeting 6/14/03
To those who voted to = sell the=20 roster along with my name and address for $.20 thanks for nothing. I = really=20 need more S*** cluttering up my mailbox! I'd ask to have my name = deleted but=20 it's probably already done.
Big John


------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C345A5.A069E240-- **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David R. Hartwig" Subject: BB: Vote on Selling List Date: 08 Jul 2003 23:23:48 -0600 Hi all! There's been some comment about the vote at the last meeting to sell our membership list. While it is true that the vote was taken and it was in favor of doing so, the board took the matter under advisement and vetoed the idea. No action was taken. I tried to convey this information in the President's message. If I was unclear there, I hope that I am clear here on that issue. David President **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DNA Subject: Re: BB: Vote on Selling List Date: 09 Jul 2003 06:18:02 -0700 (PDT) --0-1153142560-1057756682=:23279 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Not knowing the benefits of the boards action? Could you please tell the rest of us why you voted to sell the list?especially for $20.??bbb "David R. Hartwig" wrote: Hi all! There's been some comment about the vote at the last meeting to sell our membership list. While it is true that the vote was taken and it was in favor of doing so, the board took the matter under advisement and vetoed the idea. No action was taken. I tried to convey this information in the President's message. If I was unclear there, I hope that I am clear here on that issue. David President **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-1153142560-1057756682=:23279 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Not knowing the benefits of the boards action?
Could you please tell the rest of us why you voted
to sell the list?especially for $20.??bbb

"David R. Hartwig" <DRHLaw@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Hi all!

There's been some comment about the vote at the last meeting to sell our
membership list. While it is true that the vote was taken and it was in
favor of doing so, the board took the matter under advisement and vetoed
the idea. No action was taken.

I tried to convey this information in the President's message. If I was
unclear there, I hope that I am clear here on that issue.

David
President


****************************************************************
The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List
http://www.beehive-beemers.org
****************************************************************

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-1153142560-1057756682=:23279-- **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Mabey" Subject: BB: Breakfast Votes Date: 09 Jul 2003 07:50:28 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C345EE.C78040B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I won't be at the meeting Saturday, but if a vote comes up on everyone selling a kidney for fifty cents I vote no. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C345EE.C78040B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I won’t be at the meeting Saturday, but if a = vote comes up on everyone selling a kidney for fifty cents I vote = no.

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C345EE.C78040B0-- **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Swan555@aol.com Subject: BB: Membership List Date: 09 Jul 2003 11:03:42 EDT --part1_c.14ca9bf7.2c3d88ce_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been a member of the bb for many years and have a good memory of the history and important events of the club.. I can remember when an August member of our club, went down to the Old BMW shop and removed all of the Stinger's from the shelf, because it was the issue that had the membership roster in it, and he didn't want his name available to the general public. I can remember when we castigated a member of the club, who sent out information relating to his mortgage business to members of the club. We have a long history of taking membership and privacy very seriously. I don't know if I want to be a member of a club that has to develop a privacy policy. The Day this club makes is membership list available to any one, under any condition, is the day I quit this club. and will then contact other friends, to see about starting the Deseret Beemers Motorcycle Club of Utah. Crit --part1_c.14ca9bf7.2c3d88ce_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been a member of the bb for many years and have= a good memory of the history and important events of the club.. I can remem= ber when an August member of our club, went down to the Old BMW shop and rem= oved all of the Stinger's from the shelf, because it was the issue that had=20= the membership roster in it, and he didn't want his name available to the ge= neral public. I can remember when we castigated a member of the club, who se= nt out information relating to his mortgage business to members of the club.= We have a long history of taking membership and privacy very seriously. I d= on't know if I want to be a member of a club that has to develop a privacy p= olicy. The Day this club makes is membership list available to any one, unde= r any condition, is the day I quit this club. and will then contact other fr= iends, to see about starting the Deseret Beemers Motorcycle Club of Utah. Crit --part1_c.14ca9bf7.2c3d88ce_boundary-- **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DeVern Gerber" Subject: Re: BB: Vote on Selling List Date: 09 Jul 2003 09:05:28 -0600 Fellow BBer's Names and addresses, kidneys and major organs, what next, a raffling of our firstborn?? The fact that the board ended up NOT selling the club's roster isn't what is important here, what is important is that even for an instant they appeared ready to undertake such an invasion of privacy based only upon the feedback of the limited number of people who elect to attend Saturday morning breakfasts. I think it speaks volumes about the changes that have taken place in the club since it started down the path of seeking and encouraging growth for growth's sake. Too bad the alternative wasn't explored, that of working at building a *better* club, one where the membership is more in contact with each other and has enough understanding of each other, on a personal level, to preclude ever considering hawking our privacy for a few pennies apiece. Oh what the hell, this is America under a Texas-based regime, I guess everything is just automatically supposed to be better because it's bigger..... I don't blame John for wanting to remove remove his name from the roster. I'm considering the same step myself. I still plan on attending motorcycle events, including some Beehive Beemer events, with my friends, but I prefer to do so knowing that the price of association will not be my privacy. Best, DeVern On 8 Jul 2003 at 23:23, David R. Hartwig wrote: > Hi all! > > There's been some comment about the vote at the last meeting to sell > our membership list. While it is true that the vote was taken and it > was in favor of doing so, the board took the matter under advisement > and vetoed the idea. No action was taken. > > I tried to convey this information in the President's message. If I > was unclear there, I hope that I am clear here on that issue. > **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Fazzini Jr." Subject: Re: BB: Membership List Date: 09 Jul 2003 13:30:14 -0500 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3140602215_799470 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit An Opt-in privacy policy is in the works with the re-vamping of the website and current database. Dan > > From: Swan555@aol.com > Reply-To: Swan555@aol.com > Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:03:42 EDT > To: beehive-beemers@xmission.com > Subject: BB: Membership List > > I have been a member of the bb for many years and have a good memory of the > history and important events of the club.. I can remember when an August > member of our club, went down to the Old BMW shop and removed all of the > Stinger's from the shelf, because it was the issue that had the membership > roster in it, and he didn't want his name available to the general public. I > can remember when we castigated a member of the club, who sent out information > relating to his mortgage business to members of the club. We have a long > history of taking membership and privacy very seriously. I don't know if I > want to be a member of a club that has to develop a privacy policy. The Day > this club makes is membership list available to any one, under any condition, > is the day I quit this club. and will then contact other friends, to see about > starting the Deseret Beemers Motorcycle Club of Utah. > Crit --B_3140602215_799470 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: BB: Membership List An Opt-in privacy policy is in the works with the re-v= amping of the website and current database.

Dan

From: Swan555@aol.com
Reply-To: Swan555@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:03:42 EDT
To: beehive-beemers@xmission.com
Subject: BB: Membership List


I have been a member o= f the bb for many years and have a good memory of the history and important = events of the club.. I can remember when an August member of our club, went = down to the Old BMW shop and removed all of the Stinger's from the shelf, be= cause it was the issue that had the membership roster in it, and he didn't w= ant his name available to the general public. I can remember when we castiga= ted a member of the club, who sent out information relating to his mortgage = business to members of the club. We have a long history of taking membership= and privacy very seriously. I don't know if I want to be a member of a club= that has to develop a privacy policy. The Day this club makes is membership= list available to any one, under any condition, is the day I quit this club= . and will then contact other friends, to see about starting the Deseret Bee= mers Motorcycle Club of Utah.
Crit

 --B_3140602215_799470-- **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DeVern Gerber" Subject: Re: BB: Membership List Date: 09 Jul 2003 14:14:27 -0600 I, for one, would be interested in seeing a concise listing of exactly wha= t benefits are expected to accrue to members as a result of having their personal contact information sold by the club, even on an "opt-in" basis. = My suspicion is that given a thorough briefing on the potential pitfalls of s= uch an action that few, if any, members would be interested in "opting in". If s= o, why waste the time and effort on setting up such a policy at the risk of anger= ing the majority of the membership?? And in case there is any question about the pitfalls I mentioned, allow me to list just a few: Disclosure of unlisted/unpublished phone numbers and addresses Sales calls from telemarketers Spam emails, chain letters, and heaven knows what else as a result of disclosing email addresses Disclosure of information that could contribute to theft of identity Disclosure of information that could contribute to theft of personal property (as I thief, I'd love to know where all those easily-stolen motor= cycles are stashed) Disclosure of information that could contribute to reduced personal safety of club members or their families. (if you own a Beemer you must h= ave money, ergo if I can't steal the bike maybe I can take you or a family mem= ber hostage, or at least break in and hassle someone for a little cash) And so on..... Perhaps the board is na=EFve enough to think that any information they sol= d would be used only by the individual or company to whom it was sold. Au contraire 'mon cherie, au contraire! Companies that buy contact lists are= notorious for reselling those lists to the highest bidder, to recoup their= up-front investment. Once sold, the BB contact info list could end up in unknown hands. If you really want to work on an opt-in/opt-out solution for something, I'= d suggest starting with something simple and in-house, like the semi-annual = club rosters sent out to all the members. As it stands right now, given the propensity of the club to peddle private information without first posing = the question to ALL of the membership, I'd like the opportunity to opt-OUT of having my contact info published on the roster. But enough, enough! I'm just a radical old pharte who thinks that people,= especially the somnolent Americans, are far too casual with regard to priv= acy and personal safety. You shouldn't listen to me rant on about this. I'd suggest, with all due respect to everyone involved, that instead you ask someone like Ed Smart if it's wise to have information about your family, = your residence, or your personal property readily available to people you reall= y don't know. I think you know the answer. Best, DeVern On 9 Jul 2003 at 13:30, Dan Fazzini Jr. wrote: > An Opt-in privacy policy is in the works with the re-vamping of the > website and current database. > > Dan > > **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JMerrick" Subject: Re: BB: Membership List Date: 09 Jul 2003 15:58:50 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C34632.FCD93BB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: BB: Membership ListThat is probably all fine and good but I still do = not think I should have to opt in or opt out. Perhaps when that day = arrives I will go with Crit to form the Deseret Beemers Club of Utah. I = provided an address phone number and e-mail address so I could be = contacted by friends who wanted to ride. NOT to be solicited for product = abc. As far at that goes I would be just as Pi**** Off if the club were = to have gotten $10.00 per name. I do not believe that the information is = "The Clubs to sell". just my $.02. Let me know when it's time to bail, = till then, see you on the road. jm "It matters NOT what you Ride" "Only THAT you Ride" "Ride With Pride" 'Large' President=20 Blue Knights Utah Chapter I=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dan Fazzini Jr.=20 To: beehive-beemers@xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 12:30 PM Subject: Re: BB: Membership List An Opt-in privacy policy is in the works with the re-vamping of the = website and current database. Dan From: Swan555@aol.com Reply-To: Swan555@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:03:42 EDT To: beehive-beemers@xmission.com Subject: BB: Membership List I have been a member of the bb for many years and have a good memory = of the history and important events of the club.. I can remember when an = August member of our club, went down to the Old BMW shop and removed all = of the Stinger's from the shelf, because it was the issue that had the = membership roster in it, and he didn't want his name available to the = general public. I can remember when we castigated a member of the club, = who sent out information relating to his mortgage business to members of = the club. We have a long history of taking membership and privacy very = seriously. I don't know if I want to be a member of a club that has to = develop a privacy policy. The Day this club makes is membership list = available to any one, under any condition, is the day I quit this club. = and will then contact other friends, to see about starting the Deseret = Beemers Motorcycle Club of Utah. Crit ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C34632.FCD93BB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: BB: Membership List
That is probably all fine and good but = I still do=20 not think I should have to opt in or opt out. Perhaps when that day = arrives I=20 will go with Crit to form the Deseret Beemers Club of Utah. I provided = an=20 address phone number and e-mail address so I could be contacted by = friends who=20 wanted to ride. NOT to be solicited for product abc. As far at that goes = I would=20 be just as Pi**** Off if the club were to have gotten $10.00 per name. I = do not=20 believe that the information is "The Clubs to sell". just my $.02. Let = me know=20 when it's time to bail, till then, see you on the road. = jm
"It matters NOT what you Ride"
"Only THAT you Ride"
"Ride = With Pride"=20 'Large' President
Blue Knights Utah Chapter I
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dan = Fazzini Jr.=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 = 12:30=20 PM
Subject: Re: BB: Membership = List

An Opt-in privacy policy is in the = works=20 with the re-vamping of the website and current = database.

Dan

From: Swan555@aol.com
Reply-To: = Swan555@aol.com
Date: = Wed, 9 Jul=20 2003 11:03:42 EDT
To: beehive-beemers@xmission.com=
Subject:=20 BB: Membership List
I have been a member of = the bb for=20 many years and have a good memory of the history and important = events of the=20 club.. I can remember when an August member of our club, went down = to the=20 Old BMW shop and removed all of the Stinger's from the shelf, = because it was=20 the issue that had the membership roster in it, and he didn't want = his name=20 available to the general public. I can remember when we castigated a = member=20 of the club, who sent out information relating to his mortgage = business to=20 members of the club. We have a long history of taking membership and = privacy=20 very seriously. I don't know if I want to be a member of a club that = has to=20 develop a privacy policy. The Day this club makes is membership list = available to any one, under any condition, is the day I quit this = club. and=20 will then contact other friends, to see about starting the Deseret = Beemers=20 Motorcycle Club of Utah.
Crit

 ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C34632.FCD93BB0-- **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Monte Kartchner" Subject: BB: Selling the roster Date: 09 Jul 2003 19:29:07 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C34650.5D837490 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm glad the Board decided to not sell the list, I can't believe anyone voted to sell the list in the first place. However the talk about having an option to opt-out of the list should not be. I vote that each member automatically be left off the list unless he specifically opts-in. Just my two cents. Monte Kartchner ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C34650.5D837490 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm = glad the Board=20 decided to not sell the list, I can't believe anyone voted to sell the = list in=20 the first place.  However the talk about having an option to = opt-out of the=20 list should not be. I vote that each member automatically be left = off the=20 list unless he specifically opts-in.  Just my two=20 cents.
 
Monte=20 Kartchner
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C34650.5D837490-- **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David R. Hartwig" Subject: BB: List Debate Date: 09 Jul 2003 20:41:57 -0600 Hey all: We're having some discussion and debate on line, which is great. I'm glad to see active participation, even if it is on a settled issue and one that invokes some disparaging feelings. What I'd like to do is open up the club more to input and ideas, active discussions and participation. Yes, those members present at the last Saturday breakfast voted on something that to some is unpopular. If anyone out there wants to know why the vote went the way it did, come on in to this Saturday's breakfast and ask around. You know, my philosophy about the club is that we are basically a fraternal organization; a group of people drawn together by a common interest -- riding BMWs. And that is about where it ends. Some of us ride GS, others RT or R... some ride cruisers. The bottom line is the brand of motorcycle we ride and that we ride. So all ideas are welcome! Get involved! Get vocal! The club is like a grocery store... we need to "stock" as many items in as we can and then each member can pick and choose what he or she wants. The more diversity the more we can learn about each other. I would like to address one issue though; and that is the bigger vs better issue. From my understanding, our club has actually gotten smaller in the gross number of members over the past year. It is not getting bigger and that raises a question in my mind. Why didn't those other 100 or 150 BMW riders renew and keep with the club? What are we missing? I have no answers on that and I'm open to ideas. And, can't bigger and better go together? Don't we all learn by having new and different ideas presented to us? I don't know all the roads and all the rides around me and if there are others out there to share information, be it a cruiser, GS, Rx, or K bike; be it a simple around the block road or an all day ride, I'd like to hear about it. I'm also open to equipment and accessories. I'm always looking for new gadgets. And the way to learn is to get BMW riders into our club, keep them interested and participating and to gain quality from everyone. So, yes, let's keep discussions moving. Let's use this email system more to share rides, Sunday afternoon trips, information on road conditions or whatever. Let's all, each and everyone of us, open up and share so that we can get to know each other more and build the best D..n club we can. And yes, we need to keep our traditions alive; but we also need to accept and maybe even incorporate new "traditions" into our realm of experience. Get involved with your club. Let's have a great meeting Saturday and share our common love ... riding down the road on a great machine! **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeb Berg" Subject: BB: Re: List Debate Date: 09 Jul 2003 21:29:12 -0600 Ok now it is my turn. First - I have truly enjoyed reading all the comments from everyone about the issue of selling the membership information, after all it has been a long, long time since anything happened within our club to cause my email to light up! It's alive! (I think I will keep finding controversy to add some life!) Secondly - The system works! The board, after consideration of the vote at the last meeting and taking into account issues that were not brought up at the meeting during the discussion, took the action to veto the recommendation. No information was sold, bartered, or otherwise give to anyone. Third - I think that the board is doing a great job and they need all of our support. When last year's annual election took place, we entrusted in this group to maintain the integrity of the organization. They're final action, taken within one week of the vote speaks volumes to the effectiveness of the organization. The bylaws worked. Forth - The monthly meeting would be immensely more fun if all with strong opinions would attend to share their opinions and voice their concerns providing the guidance that is needed. Jeb Berg ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 8:41 PM > Hey all: > > We're having some discussion and debate on line, which is great. I'm > glad to see active participation, even if it is on a settled issue and > one that invokes some disparaging feelings. > > What I'd like to do is open up the club more to input and ideas, active > discussions and participation. > > Yes, those members present at the last Saturday breakfast voted on > something that to some is unpopular. If anyone out there wants to know > why the vote went the way it did, come on in to this Saturday's > breakfast and ask around. > > You know, my philosophy about the club is that we are basically a > fraternal organization; a group of people drawn together by a common > interest -- riding BMWs. And that is about where it ends. > > Some of us ride GS, others RT or R... some ride cruisers. The bottom > line is the brand of motorcycle we ride and that we ride. So all ideas > are welcome! Get involved! Get vocal! The club is like a grocery > store... we need to "stock" as many items in as we can and then each > member can pick and choose what he or she wants. The more diversity the > more we can learn about each other. > > I would like to address one issue though; and that is the bigger vs > better issue. From my understanding, our club has actually gotten > smaller in the gross number of members over the past year. It is not > getting bigger and that raises a question in my mind. Why didn't those > other 100 or 150 BMW riders renew and keep with the club? What are we > missing? > > I have no answers on that and I'm open to ideas. And, can't bigger and > better go together? Don't we all learn by having new and different > ideas presented to us? I don't know all the roads and all the rides > around me and if there are others out there to share information, be it > a cruiser, GS, Rx, or K bike; be it a simple around the block road or an > all day ride, I'd like to hear about it. > > I'm also open to equipment and accessories. I'm always looking for new > gadgets. And the way to learn is to get BMW riders into our club, keep > them interested and participating and to gain quality from everyone. > > So, yes, let's keep discussions moving. Let's use this email system > more to share rides, Sunday afternoon trips, information on road > conditions or whatever. Let's all, each and everyone of us, open up and > share so that we can get to know each other more and build the best D..n > club we can. > > And yes, we need to keep our traditions alive; but we also need to > accept and maybe even incorporate new "traditions" into our realm of > experience. > > Get involved with your club. Let's have a great meeting Saturday and > share our common love ... riding down the road on a great machine! > > > **************************************************************** > The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List > http://www.beehive-beemers.org > **************************************************************** > **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff S." Subject: BB: Ride proposals Date: 10 Jul 2003 08:48:21 -0700 (PDT) BB'ers Here are two ride I want to propose. These rides are in the planning stage so changes can be made and suggestions are welcome. I want to use some club funds for each so before I go forward I thought I should check on club interest. 1. for the August meeting, I have arranged for us to go to Tooele for lunch. Lets have a BB triathalon. RIDE, Shop and Eat. Anyone interested can meet me at the Kmart parking lot, 9am. We "RIDE" to BMW of salt lake where they get untill 11:00 to "SHOP". At 11:00 we check who had the highest receipt. The top two individual totals will get a free lunch. the prized will be awarded while we "EAT" at Tracks in Tooele. ride 2. 1st annual Beehive Beemers mountain man weekend. Ill find a remote camping area high in the Uinta mountains for us to use as a base camp for 'dual sport' (GS)rides. The club can provide bottled water with coolers and ice. also maybe have a cookout sat night. Folks can come up for one night or the whole weekend, Do whatever rides they want or just hang around camp. Another member has voiced an interest to bring his camper up so we would have a bathroom and kitchen. anyway you get the idea. If this sound good Ill go forward with the planning. Jeff __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff S." Subject: BB: July meeting at the spring chicken Date: 10 Jul 2003 09:14:26 -0700 (PDT) BBer's Everyone is welcome to meet me at 7:30am in the Kmart parking lot (parleys way) and riding East Canyon road to the breakfast meeting. Folks wanting to ride after the meeting meet up on the south side of the Spring Chicken and pick a route. "It's not what you Ride..." Jeff __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Winston Winston" Subject: BB: Paonia - Top O' the Rockies Rally Date: 13 Jul 2003 14:57:19 +0000 I am going to the Paonia rally this week and would like some advice. Where is the best place to camp? It appears from their web site that the best area may be near the high school. Are there any great restaurants in the area? Are there any "must do" or roads that "must be ridden" in the area? I've heard great things about the Paonia rally over the years and thought that I would make the trip. Thanks. Buck Russell Logan, not so cold lately, Utah _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David R. Hartwig" Subject: BB: Ride to work Day Date: 15 Jul 2003 17:10:08 -0600 Tomorrow, July 16 is National ride to work day. For more info go to www.ridetowork.org. **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DeVern Gerber" Subject: BB: Future of BB Camping?? Date: 16 Jul 2003 00:35:42 -0600 Is this what the future of Beehive Beemer campouts is coming to????? http://tinyurl.com/gzub D **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JMerrick" Subject: BB: Re: Future of BB Camping?? Date: 16 Jul 2003 04:42:52 -0600 Where have you been Dave and Joan have been doing this for years. "It matters NOT what you Ride" "Only THAT you Ride" "Ride With Pride" 'Large' President Blue Knights Utah Chapter I ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:35 AM > Is this what the future of Beehive Beemer campouts is coming to????? > > http://tinyurl.com/gzub > > > D > > > **************************************************************** > The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List > http://www.beehive-beemers.org > **************************************************************** > > **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff S." Subject: BB: luxury camping Date: 16 Jul 2003 10:05:17 -0700 (PDT) BB'ers Ok then,, I'll start looking for a 5 star campground and a way to mount a wine cooler on the RT :) JS __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David R. Hartwig" Subject: BB: Future of BB Camping Date: 16 Jul 2003 13:16:29 -0600 Hey, sounds great -- I'd really like to see someone pack some of that stuff on his / her bike though.... **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Winston Winston" Subject: BB: Top O' The Rockies Date: 20 Jul 2003 19:31:47 +0000 Thanks to everyone who sent me advice on where to camp and things to do in the Paonia area. The rally was great and the weather was almost perfect. The best stretch of road for me was the route from Aspen over the Independence Pass (12,094 feet) and on over to Leadville. The pass was beautiful (it rivals some of the most scenic routes that I have ridden in Utah). At the closing ceremony they announced that there were 1,098 registered participants. On a side note: the speaker ear plugs that I bought at the RRR worked great. I bought a small MP3 player and loaded it with nine hours of my favorite CDs. It is amazing what the Beatles will do for you when you are tired and wanting to be home right now. Ride safe. Buck Russell _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org **************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IRONHORSMC@aol.com Subject: BB: 2nd annual CHEZ BETTY RESTAURANT Motorcycle Club Breakfast Date: 30 Jul 2003 14:51:20 EDT To, All Members. Tom Bell and Chef Jerry Garcia invite all members to their 2nd annual CHEZ BETTY RESTAURANT Motorcycle Club Breakfast Chef Jerry is offering four special breakfasts at $9.95 each Traditional Eggs Benedict with Orange Hollandaise Old Fashioned (House Made) Corned Beef Hash & Eggs A Three Cheese Omelette Eggs Blackstone and included is a seasonal fruit plate, country potatoes, and a variety of house made muffins prepared by Pastry Chef Pat Saxton Starbucks Coffee Courtesy of Ironhorse Motorcycle Works Sunday, August 3rd 10:00 AM Address 1637 Shortline Road Park City Or Meet at the Kmart at 9:00 AM Please RSVP to tom@chezbetty.com Attend the Park City Arts Festival while in town or=20 plan a ride after breakfast. Thomas Bell =A0 Owner, Chez Betty Restaurant P.O. Box 3294 Park City, Ut 84060 =A0 Tele. 435-649-8181=A0=20 Fax. 435-649-0880 www.chezbetty.com =A0 **************************************************************** The Beehive Beemers Internet Mailing List http://www.beehive-beemers.org ****************************************************************