From: buffy-owner@xmission.com (buffy Digest) To: buffy-digest@xmission.com Subject: buffy Digest V1 #181 Reply-To: buffy@xmission.com Sender: buffy-owner@xmission.com Errors-To: buffy-owner@xmission.com Precedence: buffy Digest Tuesday, July 8 1997 Volume 01 : Number 181 In this issue: BUFFY: Buffy chats Re: BUFFY: fan name Re: BUFFY: SMG and Alyson in Top 20 site. Re: BUFFY: "Read" posters and Xander's possession Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack & Witches Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack & Witches Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack BUFFY: Blade The Vampire Slayer?????? Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack & Witches Re: BUFFY: Giles and Buffy Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack & Witches Re: BUFFY: Blade The Vampire Slayer?????? BUFFY: ATTN: NICHOLAS BRENDON FANS IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA... BUFFY: Book cage explanation Re: BUFFY: Book cage explanation Re: BUFFY: Scream Again/I Know What You Did Last Summer info Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack BUFFY: Scott Re: BUFFY: mild mannered zookeeper by day, hyena-boy by night Re: BUFFY: mild mannered zookeeper by day, hyena-boy by night Re: BUFFY: Joss Whedon, Ojai and Bionics BUFFY: Re:How you rate your Buffys? BUFFY: Angel repeat?? Re: BUFFY: mild mannered zookeeper by day, hyena-boy by night Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack & Witches BUFFY: Buffy cheerleader episode Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack & Witches Re: BUFFY: Angel's Literacy Re: BUFFY: mild mannered zookeeper by day, hyena-boy by night Re: BUFFY: mild mannered zookeeper by day, hyena-boy by night BUFFY: Leader of the Pack Re: BUFFY: Xander's Necklace in The Pack Re: BUFFY: Blade The Vampire Slayer?????? Re: BUFFY: Giles and Buffy Re: BUFFY: SMG and Alyson in Top 20 site. Re: BUFFY: mild mannered zookeeper by day, hyena-boy by night Re: BUFFY: Angel's Literacy / Brian Thompson Re: BUFFY: More Prophecy Girl(spoilers) Re: BUFFY: Fwd: Salon Article Buffy See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 16:00:12 -0400 From: northcat@juno.com Subject: BUFFY: Buffy chats I'm interested in knowing if there are any scheduled Buffy chats. If so, where and when are they? I tried looking after the show yesterday, but no luck. Northcat, GASPer, keeper of Giles office ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 13:43:48 EDT From: funee@juno.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: fan name On Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:48:32 -0500 hyphema@webtv.net writes: >LOST BOY: i duno (sic). Aly, which name do ya think? > >ALYSON (WILLOW): i don't know which name. > >big help those two were! (j/k). oh well, guys...at least i tried! >sigh. Nice try Hyphema! Maybe someone else should follow up and ask them. I would really like to know especially what Alyson says...even if she thinks we should call ourselves "Hairy Elbows"! funee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:53:57 -0700 From: slayerbwcs@webtv.net (Guadalupe Mejia) Subject: Re: BUFFY: SMG and Alyson in Top 20 site. BTW, has anybody else noticed that Charisma Carpenter and Cordelia Chase are on this top 20 poll as a choice too? maybe there is another one from the show i just went as far as c so i don't know? we have to choose one week for each now, we have to organize it, any volunteers on being the organizer for voting? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 14:03:50 EDT From: funee@juno.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: "Read" posters and Xander's possession On Tue, 08 Jul 1997 09:45:02 -0700 Kathryn Johnston writes: >Hello, all! > I am just back from the American Library Association's annual >meeting in San Francisco. Most "READ" posters have the stars holding >their favorite books. The two exceptions are "Hercules" and "Xena." Hi! Did you by chance talk to anyone in charge of planning and designing the ALA's READ posters? Any word on what poster design they would use for the BtVS poster and when it would come out? I'm interested in knowing whether they will use a group shot...which I hope they do including not only the regular cast members of the show such as Buffy, Xander, Cordelia, Giles, Ms Calendar, Master, but also monsters, vampires and ESPECIALLY (perhaps wearing a t-shirt that says "Genius of BtVS") Joss Whedon. Also, because of the sheer uniqueness of the whole series and the fact that no other tv series has ever featured characters that made such a valuable and unique use of libraries in solving the mysteries and obstacles they go against, I would hope the ALA has other plans for using the cast of the show to promote literacy/education. Mini-interviews with cast members asking them what their favorite books were/are would be a nice article feature in the American Library Journal or any educational magazine like Sesame Street, Highlight, etc. I'd also like appearances on public children's tv shows like Reading Rainbow, Storytime, Sesame Street, etc. In fact, I'm looking forward to a whole buncha publicity uses of the cast of BtVS doing pubic service announcements on tv about drugs/sex/violence/education, appearances at colleges, high schools, etc. Would certainly enhance the image of WB and 20th Century as well as be a nice contribution to the welfare of the American public (Scott has his work cut out for him...he-he.). funee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:00:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Lisa Rose Subject: Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack & Witches At 12:02 PM 7/8/97 -0500, Tracey Newton wrote: >5) He seemed stronger than the others. While they contented themselves >with preying on the weaker, he pursued Buffy (though for a different >reason) who is a predator herself. Yeah, I noticed that too. Xander definitely tried to bite off more than he could chew there! >As for the cage in the library, I've seen something like it in my old >school library, but it was used to protect old and valuble texts that some >alum had donated. Yeah, I think that's what the cage was *originally* intended to be (but Giles may have adapted it for weapons). On a picky note, in all my days of digging musty old journals out of those things, they all had this little knob on the inside you could get out with (in case accidently locked in). Only people on the *outside* needed the key. Xander could have gotten right out. >On a slightly different note, I have to stand up for the underdog (no pun >intended). Hyenas are not the evil vicious creatures that this episode and >popular mythology make them out to be. For that matter, neither are WITCHES (I'm referring to "The Witch" episode here). I've have lots of pagan friends who are witches and it's not at all like that old tired cliche that Joss portrayed (which was originated by Christians in abhorrent books such as the Malleus Maleficarum - "Witch Hammer" - which was used by the Inquisition, and even quoted by Giles last night in "The Pack"). If I were to fault Joss with anything, it would be in falling back on some old, familiar, and unfair stereotypes for his villians. Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:37:50 -0500 From: Tracey Newton Subject: Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack & Witches Lisa wrote: > >If I were to fault Joss with anything, it would be in falling back >on some old, familiar, and unfair stereotypes for his villians. However, there was one villian (that I can think of off-hand) that had me in stiches: Old Pork-and-Beans sounded very much like a slightly (ok, little more than slightly) insane strong right-wing Christian to me. Two things really struck me there: 1) the irony: He was "judged" and "found worthy". He thinks his God did this to him....Little does he know. 2) the notion that everyone can be an enemy: witches, right-wing Christians, little children, puppy-dogs... Ok, so no puppy-dogs yet, but the new season is right around the corner!! Tracey tan3@cornell.edu Keeper of the Cluelessness of the Rest of the School ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:45:03 -0400 From: Jesse Jou Subject: Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack At 11:00 AM -0700 7/8/97, Lisa Rose wrote: >Yeah, I noticed that too. Xander definitely tried to bite off more >than he could chew there! Was anyone else disturbed by sexual assault aspect of this? Buffy as much stated so. This is really one of the most self-aware episodes of the series. First there's Xander's revelation about his knowing about willow's affection for him. Then there's Buffy's line after she throws Xander into the cage and Willow says something like "It was the hyena" in an attempt to justify his behavior and Buffy says, "No, but it's safe to say that in his present state his idea of wooing, etc..". Then there's Willow's challenging Xander at the cage when he tries to sweet talk her. The amount of insight that these characters have into each other is very interesting and more interesting is how much of it is suppressed in later episodes. These kids don't want to deal with their emotions, and Xander's foray into taboo seemed to break the unspoken code between them, albeit temporarily. Also, has anyone else noticed that the promos are starting more and more prurient? What was up with all that talk about obsession and possession in "The Pack" promo? I thought I was about to see one of those Showtime movies with all the nudity (I don't have cable, but I've heard...) And of course, all those shirtless shots of Angel for a promo for "The Witch?" ye gods! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 11:39:37 -0700 From: Allan Alexander Subject: BUFFY: Blade The Vampire Slayer?????? I was poking around on the Internet Movie Database, looking at upcoming movie releases for 1998, when I noticed a Movie titled "Blade the Vampire slayer". Intrigued By this i took a peak and this is what i found out. Director: Stephen Norrington Cast: Stephen Dorff as Frost Arly Jover Udo Kier Kris Kristofferson as Abraham Whistler Donal Logue Traci Lords Wesley Snipes as Blade Kevin Patrick Walls N'Bushe Wright Written: David S. Goyer Producers: Bob Engelman Peter Frankfurt (executive) Now I have no idea exactly what this means. The web page gave no clue as to the plot or premise to this movie as to whether it is supposed to be somekind of sequel to "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" either the movie or the show. My only problem with this movie is that i just can't seem to imagine wesley snipes as a Slayer. If anyone else knows more about this movie please let me know Cli(n)t ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 14:45:08 -0400 From: Virginia Eveland Subject: Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack & Witches Lisa Rose wrote: > For that matter, neither are WITCHES (I'm referring to "The Witch" > episode here). I've have lots of pagan friends who are witches and > it's not at all like that old tired cliche that Joss portrayed... I was also a bit disappointed when I viewed this episode, but, to give Joss a slight amount of credit, he *has* introduced the character of Miss Calendar, a self proclaimed TechnoPagan, so Joss isn't damning the entire Pagan culture. As a Wiccan, I'm actually remarkably mellow about the Hollywood usage of the word Witch, probably, because for me at least, I don't really relate to it. I do understand that many other people *do* and that is what made me a bit disappointed in this episode. The character in 'The Witch' is your stereotypical bad person abusing magic. Now, I have no problem with abuse of magic as an episode theme, I just wish he had avoided the term Witch. - -- Virginia Eveland dscully@erols.com UIN 1517244 Pretender,Slayerette, Bab5, X-Phile SYX, AGML, LGW, BLA, OBSSE, GASP Keeper of Giles' Inner Child Keeper of Buffy's Three Gold Hoop Earrings Keeper of Little Buffy's Dogeared Copy of 'Horton Slew a Who' - -- Visit the Buffy ICQ List http://www.erols.com/dscully/buffy.htm - -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:46:29 -0400 (EDT) From: PalOBuffys@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Giles and Buffy In a message dated 97-07-08 14:24:21 EDT, Lawless wrote: << I think the age of consent where I live is 17, therefore, Giles would have to spend some time in jail. Not to mention the fact that no matter what the age of consent he would be fired from his job as librarian, >> Ah, but in the real world, where I'm 37 and SMG is 20, everything would be just wonderful! I do find it interesting that more women than men on this list seem to be comfortable with the older man/younger women relationship. Personally though, I think Angel is WAY too old for Buffy. Me and Sarah? No problemo! Uh, um, oh, I had the most amazing dream. You were there, and you, a..and you! ObBuffy: Someone mentioned that in The Pack, Xander seemed the unlikely leader of the Pack (insert motorcycle sounds - showing my age again?). My take on this: we have seen Xander, time and again, come to the rescue of people in danger, at great risk to his own safety. He even went into the hyena area to assist the young geek being harrassed by the "winged monkeys", as Buffy called them. (oooh, two Oz refs in one email!) Xander is indeed brave, but I think more importantly he shows great strength of character and conviction. The bullies get away with what they do through simple intimidation and by always traveling as a group. Typical of these types. When the curse is lifted and they sense real danger, the bullies turn tail and run. Xander immediately rushes to Willow's assistance. The ultimate point being that Xander, in a state of possession and among his own kind, has the true strength and spirit to assume the role of dominant male , regardless of social standing in the human world. Mike Keeper of Buffy's little white teddy bear Keeper of Buffy's beeper "I ate a pig? Was it cooked and called bacon?" --- Xander Harris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:55:03 -0400 From: Jesse Jou Subject: Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack & Witches At 2:37 PM -0500 7/8/97, Tracey Newton wrote: > 2) the notion that everyone can be an enemy: witches, right-wing Christians, >little children, puppy-dogs... Ok, so no puppy-dogs yet, but the new season >is right around the corner!! ROTFL!! Maybe instead of the spawn of French & Gregory the Aliens episode could involve the school being overrun by cute demonic puppy dogs, forcing Buffy to lead an elite squad of dogcatchers into the trenches...(kind of like that Mad TV sketch, "When Babies Attack") Actually, this is a very interesting point. Not only do we get that everyone can be an enemy, but also that the majority of the villains we've seen or the majority of evil acts we've seen have been physical and emotional violence perpetrated by adults on children or adolescents: Catherine switches bodies with Amy, the Master converts a little boy to be his evil weapon, Lucky Number 9, etc. Makes a good case for the whole "I'm a kid and the world is against me" argument, seems to me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 14:50:23 -0400 From: koch@northnet.org Subject: Re: BUFFY: Blade The Vampire Slayer?????? Actually, it should be "Blade: The Vampire *Hunter*". That's the proper title, so apparently the IMD got it wrong. Anyway, it's based of the Marvel Comics character "Blade", who hunts vampires, because a vampire killed his mother. The interesting part is that Blade has hightened senses, strength, etc, because the vampire killed his mother while she was giving birth to him. The only connection that I know of between the Buffy and Blade is that one of the regulars on the Bronze posting board uses the name "Blade: the Vampire Hunter." - --Viashino-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 12:54:41 -0700 From: Allan Alexander Subject: BUFFY: ATTN: NICHOLAS BRENDON FANS IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA... I was looking through my mail today when i found a piece of junk mail from one of those television talent competitions from an organization known as O'BRIEN/ROTTMAN. This happens to be the people who discovered Nicholas Brendon before he was cated on Buffy well he is going to be at this talent competition in S.F. on June 29th. It's 360 Post Street. I garuntee that this isn't a joke. I won't be there cause i have to work so.... i've said my piece. Cli(n)t ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 15:03:49 -0700 From: Kathryn Johnston Subject: BUFFY: Book cage explanation Hello, all! GilesWear is excellent for Librarians/Watchers, FBI agents named Fox, and anyone else who just rather remain aloof or anonymous. Hey! Not all librarians totally lack fashion sense! Some of us can even look stylish on occasion. :) Or are you just referring to male librarians...? In response to PalOBuffys@aol.com > 1) What's the deal with the cage in the library? I can't recall ever having seen that before or since this ep. Was there an explanation for it's existance? Some really old libraries had what is known as book cages. Many of these libraries had "stacks" which were many floors of book shelf areas connected by narrow metal stair cases. In the days before electric lights, many of these staircases had skylights and literally glass block floors. I used to worry that if I hopped down to hard, I would go crashing through! The staff often kept book trucks [carts] away from the public in a "book cage." The book cage often contained a dumb waiter type elevator to get the books up and down to the different floors of stacks. The cage was needed to keep students from playing on this tiny elevator or messing with the carts of books. The Sunnydale Highschool Library does have a very old-fashioned design, so it has a book cage, which may contain an elevator, movable book carts, and the occasional possessed student. Hope this helps! Kathryn, a librarian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 13:13:21 -0700 From: Allan Alexander Subject: Re: BUFFY: Book cage explanation We already know tht Giles has many priceless books of ancient lore and prophecy so the book cage is probably used to keep these books away from robbers and theives. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:25:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Girljen296@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Scream Again/I Know What You Did Last Summer info In a message dated 97-07-08 01:54:48 EDT, you write: << Whoa, I didn't know Lawless wrote "I Know What You Did Last Summer". :) Good job Lawless ! >> He didn't. He wrote the summary. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 13:25:38 PDT From: "Lady Elendil" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack Holly said: >Just guessing. He had the strongest sense of smell (finding Hot >Dogs, Herbert, and Willow) Hmm. I wonder why he has the strongest sense of smell... Tracey said: >3) He had the superior intelligence, it seemed. The other four >seemed barely able to verbalize during the confrontation with Flutie, >while he could still pretend to be fully human when dealing with >Willow in the library. I wonder if that's because he was more "human" (nicer) is real life. I mean, the rest of the Pack (before posession) acted more like hyenas than Xander did (not to say he acted like one at all). Traveling in packs, surrounding their "prey" (Lance), and preying on the weak, where as Xander did nothing like this at all. That could also account for his being 'leader.' It did seem like Kyle (I think that's his name, the guy in the brown shirt when the pack was cruising the campus) was second in command,, and he was 'leader' of the group before possession. Also, why do you suppose they didn't prey on the woman and her baby, but afterwards went after the family in the car. It seems to me that the woman and the baby were more vulnerable and weak than the family. It could just be because they were already full, but don't some wild animals kill and then bury their food for a later time. This may not apply to hyenas. On a separate note, in this ep. (which I saw for the first time last night), I realized what a nice guy Flutie was. Sure, he may get in the way, but he's trying his hardest. That scene right before they put Herbert back in his cage was very interesting. He's pouring his heart out to Buffy. And then that remark about when he was her age and older guys were telling how much better things were in their days. Well, that just confirmed my suspisions. He really does care about his students, not just lawsuits, which Snyder seems to be obsessed with. SHS was defiantely better off with Flutie than Snyder. Too bad he had to get digested. Now that I think about it, all the teachers we've encountered (the imposter Ms. French excepted) have been really nice. We don't get to see much of Giles' interaction with the other students much, of course. Dr. Gregory was a nice guy, as was the teacher in IG. Principal Snyder is a little rough around the edges... Even the science teacher we see at the end of Teacher's Pet and the PE teacher aren't bad guys. You'd think with Joss's metaphor of "high school was hell," we'd see more really mean teachers. While I'm on the subject of teachers, what happened to Coach Foster (the "woman with the chest hair" mentioned in WttHM)? You'd think we see her in the dodgeball scene. When it was raining outside, and we had to squaredance in PE, all our teachers were there. Once again, this has turned out *much* longer than I expected it to be. Lady Elendil Proud Slayerette/Buffamaniac (I can't decide) Member of Ms. Calendar's Techno-pagans "Nerds are in... They're still in, right?" - -Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" ladyelendil@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________ Get Private Web-Based Email Free http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 16:26:34 -0400 From: Jim Cier Subject: BUFFY: Scott Dear Scott, Thank you for posting the schedule, but isn't Angel being rerun? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:33:07 -0400 (EDT) From: PepsiNext@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: mild mannered zookeeper by day, hyena-boy by night It was odd that the hyenas ripped him apart in the end....but then also when Willow, Buffy and Giles were looking in that book it showed all the people who got possesed were ripped apart. Maybe that had something to do with it. Like maybe the hyenas get out and come looking for the possesed people to kill them. PepsiNext@aol.com Keeper of Darla`s Dress ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:37:15 -0400 (EDT) From: PalOBuffys@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: mild mannered zookeeper by day, hyena-boy by night In a message dated 97-07-08 15:25:53 EDT, Lawless wrote: << What I mean by this is, his actions while possessed reflected part of his true nature. His original feelings for Buffy were magnified and drove him to act the way he did towards her. Yet he called Willow, "pasty face" Could this reflect his true feelings toward Willow, in a heightened sense of course. >> Sorry about the extra quote line. OK, regarding the above and all other questions about what Xander knows and why he behaved the way he did: I think he cares very deeply for Willow, but unfortunately for Willow, not in a romantic way. He was very quick to run to her assistance as soon as he was de-possessed. Later, when she says that he saved her life, he gives her a big hug and says something to the effect of "nobody messes with my Willow." As for Xander's behaviour in general while possessed and whether or not it means he is aware of Willow's feelings or if he even likes her, I'm reminded of Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. Before giving into the Dark Side, Anaken (sp?) Skywalker was a revered Jedi Knight, a hero. Once he took on the persona of Darth Vader, he even wanted to kill his own son. Nothing was going to get in the way of his domination. Upon his ultimate return to his kinder, gentler self, he is once again the consumate good guy. Of course, Vader had to die to return to that state, Xander only had to be de-hyenized (I love making up words!). I think the parallels are there, and once that "dark side" takes over, it takes over completely. Survival of the fittest and all that. Additionaly, do I sense trepidation amongst my fellow Buffamaniacs, Slayerettes, Slayerytes that this ep means there's no hope for Xander and Willow to ever get together? Don't judge Xander too harshly until you too have been possessed by the spirit of a predator/scavenger. Mike Keeper of Buffy's little white teddy bear Keeper of Buffy's beeper "I ate a pig? Was it cooked and called bacon?" --- Xander Harris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 16:36:43 -0700 From: Mark Safransky Subject: Re: BUFFY: Joss Whedon, Ojai and Bionics Actually, Richard Anderson played the villian in the second Kolchak movie which was "The Night Strangler" where he was an evil immortal alchemist whose secret to immortal life was the killings of young women. Kolchak stopped him of course. I also remember him (when he was very young) in "Forbidden Planet" with Leslie Nielson. But, of course, everyone knows him best as Oscar Goldman in The Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman as well as the three Bionic movies. Those were "The Return of the Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman", "Bionic Showdown" with Sandra Bullock and Geraint Win Davies, and "Bionic Ever After" with Farrah Forke. I hope any new Bionic movie would also have Martin Brooks as Rudy Wells. ObBuffy: Jamie Sommers as a new substitute teacher. Cool, I can just see it. Buffy - "Giles! I'm telling you, I saw her jump from the 4th floor and then run off so fast she was passing cars. Look in your books!" Mark aka The X-Lander Keeper of Angel's Bloodbags/Keeper of Cordelia's Icy Stare Keeper of the Quantum Mechanics (Physics) Book/Keeper of Buffy's Red Rose Visit my award-winning website at http://www.geocities.com/~x-lander ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 15:54:19 -0500 From: Jen Guttilla Subject: BUFFY: Re:How you rate your Buffys? "Welcome to the Hellmouth" 4 "The Harvest" 5 "The Witch" 3 "Teacher's Pet" 4 "Never Kill a Boy on the First Date" 3 "The Pack" 3 "Angel" 5 "I Robot, You Jane" 3 "The Puppet Show" 2 "Nightmares" 3 "Invisible Girl" 4 "Prophecy Girl" 5 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 15:56:42 -0500 From: Jen Guttilla Subject: BUFFY: Angel repeat?? Scott, can you tell us when and if "Angel" will be shown. I'm dieing to see it again and tape it. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:57:37 -0400 (EDT) From: PalOBuffys@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: mild mannered zookeeper by day, hyena-boy by night In a message dated 97-07-08 16:37:46 EDT, PepsiNext wrote: << It was odd that the hyenas ripped him apart in the end. >> Yeah, I've been struggling with this too, until I rewatched the ep today. Remember when the zookeeper stops Buffy and Willow from entering the hyena area during their fieldtrip? He tells them about the Primals belief that hyenas learn a persons name, then call them out at night and attack them when they have been isolated. The hyenas in the zoo can't be too thrilled about being taken away from their hyena families and locked up in a strange town. Regardless of their abilities to possess humans (what do they stand to gain from this by the way?) when the zookeeper is unceremoniously flung into the feeding pen they, um, well, feed! Remember too that Giles mentioned only the most predatory of animals attracted the interest of the Primals. I'd say lunching on a creature that your own kind has possessed is pretty dang predatory! Oh yeah, one more thing. Did Giles mention that an act of predation was needed to complete the possession? This is why the bullies were possessed, but not the zoodude in his earlier attempts. Giles discovers this when he mentions to the zookeeper that a bunch of kids managed to succeed where the zoowarden couldn't. And then zooguy uses mock predation on Willow in an attempt to gain possession himself. Did the hyenas look at this as a mockery of their power and abilities and just off the guy for principles sake? Isn't possession at the discretion of the possessor, not the possessee? (Hmmmmmm, what'd he say!?) BTW, I really missed Cordelia in this ep. Mike Keeper of Buffy's little white teddy bear Keeper of Buffy's beeper "I ate a pig? Was it cooked and called bacon?" --- Xander Harris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:03:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Ruthie718@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack & Witches >>Old Pork-and-Beans sounded very much like a slightly (ok, little more than slightly) insane strong right-wing Christian to me. Two things really struck me there: 1) the irony: He was "judged" and "found worthy". He thinks his God did this to him....Little does he know.<< - Tracey I think that Pork-and-Beans was definetly NOT a right-wing Christian. I thought him to be some psycho-path who's "religion" was sort of a cult he made up for himself where they worship the devil and evil beings like vampires. That would explain where he said he was "judged" and "found worthy." It makes more sense to me that he was found worthy by the devil. At least that's not how things are at my church! - -sharon ruth ruthie 718 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 17:02:14 -0400 From: Metkulu Subject: BUFFY: Buffy cheerleader episode The episode with Buffy as a cheerleader is coming on Sunday. A special day for Buffy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:09:25 -0400 (EDT) From: PalOBuffys@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack & Witches In a message dated 97-07-08 16:42:48 EDT, Tracey wrote: << 2) the notion that everyone can be an enemy: witches, right-wing Christians, little children, puppy-dogs... Ok, so no puppy-dogs yet, but the new season is right around the corner!! >> "Why couldn't Xander be possessed by a puppy, or...or some ducks?" -- Willow Mike Keeper of Buffy's little white teddy bear Keeper of Buffy's beeper Willow: "Hyenas aren't well liked." Buffy: "They do seem to be the schmoes of the animal kingdom." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:15:24 +0000 From: "Fiel Poblete" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Angel's Literacy > Personally, I think Angel can read. It would have been enormously > difficult for him to have survived this long if he couldn't, i would > imagine. > JJ > Has anyone given any thought to exactly what Angel does read? And for a further thought, what he read while he was at Buffy's house. Voleuse fearfap@pe.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:27:41 -0400 From: Jesse Jou Subject: Re: BUFFY: mild mannered zookeeper by day, hyena-boy by night At 4:57 PM -0400 7/8/97, PalOBuffys@aol.com wrote: >He tells them about the Primals belief that >hyenas learn a persons name, then call them out at night and attack them when >they have been isolated. This was a remarkably chilling image when they were tormenting poor Willow in the library. I was covering my eyes and going, "Someone help that poor girl!" (Not really, but gosh, she looked so cute in that episode...) >Regardless of their abilities to possess humans (what do they stand to >gain from this by the >way?) when the zookeeper is unceremoniously flung into the feeding pen they, >um, well, feed! I don't think that the hyena possessed the kids per se. The hyena's spirit was drawn into the kids by the fact that an already existing ritual had been inadvertantly completed by the Winged Monkeys (Watch out Sprung Monkey, looks like there's a new sheriff in town). Beyond their viciousness, I doubt the hyenas could be blamed with evil intent here. They were actually an innocent part of a maniac's plan to acquire supernatural power. >And then zooguy uses mock predation on Willow in an >attempt to gain possession himself. Actually so did the Winged Monkeys. Unless they were really going to throw Lance into the hyena pit. I think the predatory act has to be spiritually or intent-wise so, and not necessarily a completed act. Lisa Rose (I think?) suggested that Xander's facing down the leader of the bullies may have set off the spell, but I'm disinclined to believe that. I think he just got caught in it because he was standing in the ritual circle when the others were. Why was he the leader? Because he's a better conceived character than the rest were. :-) For the purposes of the story, it was more effective to show formerly sweet and self-effacing Xander turn into Mr Sex-in-jeans Social Darwinist. >Isn't possession at the discretion of the possessor, not the possessee? >(Hmmmmmm, >what'd he say!?) Who knows? but (drum roll please) Possession is nine-tenths of the law. JJ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:35:10 -0400 (EDT) From: tan3@cornell.edu Subject: Re: BUFFY: mild mannered zookeeper by day, hyena-boy by night On Tue, 8 Jul 1997 PalOBuffys@aol.com wrote: > > Oh yeah, one more thing. Did Giles mention that an act of predation was > needed to complete the possession? > And then zooguy uses mock predation on Willow in an > attempt to gain possession himself. I wasn't under the impression that what he was going to do to Willow was "mock predation". I really thought he was going to slice her throat, once he reached that part of the ceremony. Tracey Keeper of the Cluelessness of the Rest of the School ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:45:39 -0700 (PDT) From: leep@earthlink.net Subject: BUFFY: Leader of the Pack Mike Davignon wrote: >Did anybody else think that? I assumed they were all equal. In what way >was Xander the leader? I didn't get that Xander was leader of the pack, just one of them. I think the leader was either the blonde guy, or the brown-haired guy; one of those guys was the first to pounce on principal Flutie. The brown-haired guy was the leader when they went to rescue Xander from the cage. My $0.02. Ripley ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 17:52:59 -0400 From: Doyle Tatum Subject: Re: BUFFY: Xander's Necklace in The Pack > Xander has a necklace > Buffy has a gym shirt with spaghetti straps? I didn't notice the necklace - probably because of the spaghetti straps! - -- Doylex@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 17:48:20 -0700 From: Lawless Subject: Re: BUFFY: Blade The Vampire Slayer?????? Allan Alexander wrote: > imagine wesley snipes as a Slayer. If anyone else knows more about this > movie please let me know This movie apparently has Kris Kristoferson and Traci Lords also in it. I'm guessing it's not going to be a very serious movie. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 17:51:28 -0700 From: Lawless Subject: Re: BUFFY: Giles and Buffy PalOBuffys@aol.com wrote: > Ah, but in the real world, where I'm 37 and SMG is 20, everything would be > just wonderful! I do find it interesting that more women than men on this > list seem to be comfortable with the older man/younger women relationship. > Personally though, I think Angel is WAY too old for Buffy. Me and Sarah? > No problemo! Well, the only problem being that you're 17 years older than her. Sarah might have a small problem with that. - -Lawless ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 17:59:31 -0400 From: Doyle Tatum Subject: Re: BUFFY: SMG and Alyson in Top 20 site. Guadalupe Mejia wrote: > hi everyone! well if we want to make either Alyson or Sarah be #1 at > least once we have to get togheter and everyone vote for one person > one > week and for the other the next week so they can get enough votes to > get > closer to #1, anybody agree? imho, i think is the best way. THE ONLY WAY! - -- Doyle Tatum, RCDD NAR #70025 doylex@mindspring.com Member #554 NASA http://www.mindspring.com/~doylex RMR FAQ = http://dtm-corp.com/~sven/rockets/rmrfaq.toc.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:55:17 -0400 (EDT) From: PalOBuffys@aol.com Subject: Re: BUFFY: mild mannered zookeeper by day, hyena-boy by night In a message dated 97-07-08 16:58:27 EDT, I, yes me again, wrote: << Did the hyenas look at this as a mockery of their power and abilities and just off the guy for principles sake? Isn't possession at the discretion of the possessor, not the possessee? >> This ended a rather lengthy post of mine, and I may have jumped the gun a bit. I still think the final outcome was for the above quoted purpose (or very close to it) but it seems I got something backwards. Please, consider the following: The Primal sect of the Masi have discovered a way to draw the spirit out of the hyena, according to Giles. All the predation stuff I mentioned still holds true, but the hyenas don't control the situation, man does. I think it still would lead to the same conclusions I made though. The hyenas are probably aware that they are being used and aren't too pleased. What better way to exact their revenge than to eat the nasty spirit snatching blue faced zooguy?! Same destination, different route. Sorry about the wasted bandwidth. (he said sheepishly) Mike Keeper of Buffy's little white teddy bear Keeper of Buffy's beeper "It's funny how the earth never opens up and swallows you when you want it to." --- Xander Harris "We need to put the hyena back in the hyena." --- Buffy Summers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:29:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Huff Subject: Re: BUFFY: Angel's Literacy / Brian Thompson I think Valerie misses part of the equation in responding to an old thread: > If Angel was from the socioeconomic minority Robert was > talking about, he could probably read when he was mortal. We differ in that I don't think this was a minority, or at least not enough of one to make a difference. If Angel started out in the Catholic Irish working poor (or below), then he probably couldn't read. All other possibilites start with a good probablity he could read (though maybe not write), and steadily increasing probability as we go up the economic scale. Robert Huff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 17:24:30 -0500 From: Kristin Lang Subject: Re: BUFFY: More Prophecy Girl(spoilers) At 08:16 PM 6/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >>>>Also, something no one's mentioned (at least that I've seen) in our >discussions of retconning between the movie and the series (Buffy's age, >year in school, where's Pike?, etc.): Buffy's mom is totally different (i >mean, psychologically) from the movie too.<<< >I have also been wondering this. What ever happened to Pike? I was going to >ask this question earlier, but I missed the first showing of the premiere and >I thought that it might have been answered. It wasen't, so the question >remains... what happened to Pike? And what is the deal with Buffy's mom's >friendly new attitude? > > Well since Buffy moved i would guess that Pike is still where she used to live. and as for her mom's new attitude in the pilot she is talking about how she has to learn to say 'no' and she was going to a doctor i think. i can't remember exactly. but she was trying to change. in the movie Buffy's mom was never around and didn't seem to care about her daughter; with the move i would think she wanted to basically start over in life. that would come with a change of attitude. - -Kristin Lang krisdancer@hotmail.com, giggles@ehins.com, kj1631@hotmail.com, otter1@mn.uswest.net (doesn't always work tho) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:36:39 -0400 From: nothoney@olg.com (slb) Subject: Re: BUFFY: Fwd: Salon Article Buffy At 12:34 PM 7/8/97 -0500, JOSEPH NORTHCOTT wrote: >However, did you mean this literally? The idea that Buffy and Giles (if >they were real people) would be _illegal_ in all 50 states is just not so. >I can think of several states where it would be perfectly legal. Not >condoned, but not illegal. I guess sarcasm doesn't play well over E-mail . Are any of those "several states" in the South? I can make digs because that's where I'm from ;-) Sheryl NotHoney@olg.com -- "Scary. I'll tell you something, though. There are a lot scarier things than you. And I'm one of them." Buffy, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" -- "Why get married and make one man miserable when I can stay single and make thousands miserable?" -- Carrie Snow ------------------------------ End of buffy Digest V1 #181 *************************** To subscribe to buffy Digest, send the command: subscribe buffy-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@xmission.com". 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