From: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com (buffy-digest) To: buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: buffy-digest V2 #209 Reply-To: buffy@xmission.com Sender: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk buffy-digest Sunday, April 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 209 In this issue: BUFFY: CRAMPS!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Re: BUFFY: CRAMPS!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUFFY: Scream & IKWYDLS Re: BUFFY: Kendra Re: BUFFY: Scream & IKWYDLS BUFFY: The Slayer Debate Re: BUFFY: Scream & IKWYDLS BUFFY: A Kendra Scenario Re: BUFFY: A Kendra Scenario BUFFY: just something random i noticed Re: BUFFY: I have a good question... Re: BUFFY: Angel's insides Re: BUFFY: I have a good question... Re: BUFFY: CRAMPS!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUFFY: another question re: BUFFY: another question Re: BUFFY: another question BUFFY: IKWYDLS [none] BUFFY: Slayers Re: BUFFY: IKWYDLS BUFFY: Yesterday's program... BUFFY: Sarah on E! Re: BUFFY: another question Re: BUFFY: another question Re: BUFFY: another question Re: BUFFY: Yesterday's program... Re: BUFFY: Angel's insides Re: BUFFY: another question Re: BUFFY: CRAMPS!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUFFY: Buffy list please read Re: BUFFY: CRAMPS!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:18:42 -0800 From: BRENDAwannabe@webtv.net (Brenda Barrett) Subject: BUFFY: CRAMPS!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Does Buffy (as in Sarah Michelle Gellar) get cramps when she's near a vampire? I'm gonna keep posting this question over and over and over again until someone ACTUALLY responds to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! S&Believer Keeper of Willow's realization of her dullness factor. Keeper of Willow's clenched teeth. "You live and you die and you make a lot of mistakes in between." - --Dawson's Creek - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:34:37 -0500 From: "Carolyn or Paul" Subject: Re: BUFFY: CRAMPS!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRENDAwannabe@webtv.net wrote: Does Buffy (as in Sarah Michelle Gellar) get cramps when she's near a vampire? nope....that seems to be one change from the movie. Carolyn - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 17:08:27 -0500 From: Schimmel <75211.522@compuserve.com> Subject: BUFFY: Scream & IKWYDLS Karri wrote: << Kevin wrote IKWYDLS and Scream, but the advertisements, commercials, and trailers all said "From the people who brought you Scream" or something to that effect. Wes Craven, who directed scream, had nothing to do with IKWYDLS and doesn't want it implied that he did.>> Actually- the ads for IKWYDLS said . This whole thing puzzled me- surely the of SCREAM is the person who wrote it? Why would the director be the Creator?? He is working with plot and characters invented by someone else! SMG, who starred, might just as easily be called the as Craven! Sandra - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 15:21:19 PST From: "Rosie Town" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Kendra I think that buffy's fate was to die by the Master (Season Finale)which would explain why Kendra would have been raised to be a slayer--whatever force determines slayer-ism was under the impression that Buffy was going to die then, and knew there needed to be a new slayer by then. ~~official keeper of~~ "You're gonna die. And I'm gonna be there to see it."--Xander, BtVS and "The hands represent friendship, the crown represents loyalty, and the heart, well, you know"--Angel, BtVS ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 18:21:17 -0500 From: Michael Hawes Subject: Re: BUFFY: Scream & IKWYDLS The crator of scream and ikwydls is some writing major and all he has ever wrote is Scream IKWYDLS and Scream 2 Garrett Hawes At 05:08 PM 4/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >Karri wrote: ><< Kevin wrote IKWYDLS and Scream, but the advertisements, > commercials, and trailers all said "From the people who brought you > Scream" or something to that effect. Wes Craven, who directed scream, > > had nothing to do with IKWYDLS and doesn't want it implied that he > did.>> > >Actually- the ads for IKWYDLS said . >This whole thing puzzled me- surely the of SCREAM is the person >who wrote it? >Why would the director be the Creator?? He is working with plot and >characters invented by someone else! >SMG, who starred, might just as easily be called the as Craven! > >Sandra > >- > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:45:17 EST From: Smellcore Subject: BUFFY: The Slayer Debate As in the past we have seen that many things that applied in the movie do not apply to the show. In this case though I think that something Merrick said applies. He told Buffy that she should have been prepared and been trained much sooner. Maybe the next slayer is usually trained before the current one dies. Except in Buffy's case, Merrick hadn't been completely sure that she was in fact the chosen one. So Kendra was prepared before Buffy drowned in the Master's lair and was activated when Buffy "died". Pandora (smellcore@aol.com) Keeper of willow's wheelchair drivin' skills; Jenny's last words; Buffy's super jump in LTM and her "get well" flowers from Angel (KBD); - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 19:09:30 -0500 From: Lawless Subject: Re: BUFFY: Scream & IKWYDLS Actually, Williamson's written 7 films and over 40 other screenplays. Not to mention he's produced 2 films and a TV series and is the highest paid screenwriter in Hollywood. But this is getting a little off-topic, so to tie it in: Sarah is being thought of to star in Williamson's film, "The Faculty" (AKA 'Feelers,' AKA 'Robert Rodriguez' High School'). It's about a high school where all the faculty turns into monsters and starts killing students. Sorry, not very Buffy oriented. Lawless Michael Hawes wrote: > The crator of scream and ikwydls is some writing major and all he has ever > wrote is Scream IKWYDLS and Scream 2 > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 19:28:06 -0500 (EST) From: maxvl@iname.com Subject: BUFFY: A Kendra Scenario Now that VampGirl has accepted the job of Special Prosecutor in the Kendra case, I notice that she has been making only bland public statements about wishing that justice be done, needing to seek the truth, etc. Meanwhile I hear that Kendra's Mom was seen sobbing outside the Grand Jury room at the Federal Courthouse. The rumor is that the Marshal who was trying to serve the subpoena on K's Watcher to turn over his books has applied for long term disability due to being turned into a frog... Anyhow, Vampgirl is doing a great job, but it is up to the rest of us to make the public accusations about Kendra, at least for now. OK, so I guess we have to admit that she is not an assassin of the Order of Taraka. She does seem to be a Slayer, although she could be an Pretender, sneaking over from NBC. We know that she committed felony battery on an airline worker, but let's be charitable and just chalk that up to ignorance of local customs. The main thing I find suspicious is that her Watcher supposedly sent her to the Hellmouth on her own. The only way that would make sense would be if K's Watcher expected Giles to watch over her in Sunnydale. But Giles did not expect her to show up, despite the fact that Watchers can communicate with each other if they want to. (Giles was able to get in touch with the other Watcher after K showed up.) Considering her inexperience, the only reasonable plan would be for K to find Giles the first thing on arriving in Sunnydale -- a very dangerous post for a novice Slayer -- and follow his advice. Instead she somehow finds Angel and Buffy at the local skating rink, and apparently follows Angel for a full day until she attacks him at Willie's Tavern. These actions make sense if K's Watcher does not trust Giles. Its possible that K just happened by the rink on her way from the airport, and sensed a vampire, so went inside. Why then did she not attack B & A in the rink? Buffy would not have been intimidated by a gathering of two vampires, and we know that K considered herself well-trained and driven by her duty to slay. If she knew that they were two extraordinarily powerful "vampires", then she would want to take them on one at a time. That is what she did. It seems like she should have been seeking Spike and Dru considering the mission that she claimed she was on. If she was just picking vampires at random, it is a remarkable coincidence that she found Angel and Buffy in a city chock full of vamps. See if you can accept this scenario: Kendra was actually seeking Buffy despite her cover story. She actually is an assassin -- but not from the Tarakans. She was sent by her watcher with two goals. One is to prevent the big Vampire Thing, which turned out to be Drusilla's regaining her strength. The second was to kill Buffy, because her relationship with Angel was a danger to everybody and an embarassment to the Watchers (except Giles). (Of course, the part about being a danger to the world was subsequently shown to be true.) (Oz's comment about "a coup in the zoo" in the animal-cookie-verse is undoubtedly a reference to this second mission.) When she was unable to kill Buffy at Angel's apartment, K decided to work with Buffy and Giles to try to accomplish the primary mission, and to learn more about Buffy and Giles for future reference. Her comment of "Good Riddance" and the refusal to hug at her departure show that she is no friend of Buffy. Kendra and her Watcher consider K the current True Slayer, with the suspiciously now-undead Buffy a dangerous interloper, who is obviously out of Giles' control. As the story stands, K has returned to the True Watcher to report on what she has seen, and to receive further instructions. =============================================== MaxVL (maxvl@iname.com) LoreSharer of the line that Buffy did NOT say: "You're right Ted, cast iron _does_ make all the difference..." - ----------------------------------------------------- Get free personalized email at http://email.lycos.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 19:38:11 EST From: LilyRei Subject: Re: BUFFY: A Kendra Scenario In a message dated 98-04-04 19:31:21 EST, maxvl@iname.com writes: << Now that VampGirl has accepted the job of Special Prosecutor in the Kendra case, I notice that she has been making only bland public statements about wishing that justice be done, needing to seek the truth, etc. Meanwhile I hear that Kendra's Mom was >> LOL This is *very* good. I like it! VampGirl, if you need back up, let me know. =) LilyRei - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 19:56:23 EST From: Quakik Subject: BUFFY: just something random i noticed i was re-watching my tape of surprise and i noticed that in Buffy's dream Willow is talking in French to a monkey wearing a hat and pants. I immediately thought of what Oz said about animal crackers at the end of WML2. i jsut found that kind of interesting. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 12:16:53 -0700 From: "newell" Subject: Re: BUFFY: I have a good question... - ---------- > From: Brandy > Date: Friday, April 03, 1998 10:50 PM > > How did the Watcher who sent Kendra find out that Buffy had died? Obviously, > Giles never told anyone...Tina > Isn't it Giles job to tell the other watchers of a slayer's death so they can act accordingly and start training another slayer? Shonaille - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 12:14:29 -0700 From: "newell" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Angel's insides >He is risking getting staked and no vamp wants that! I don't think this shows that he loves Buffy. It just shows how determined he is to make Buffy suffer. Maybe he is so determined to make Buffy suffer because he can't stop thinking about her, but does this mean he really loves her or he is obsessed with her and is absolutely dtermined to rid himself of his fixation? This also shows, in my opinion that Angelus is really crazy and lacks self-control. He obviously doesn't care if he dies as long as he brings BUffy with him. > Angelus still has Angel's emotions and feelings only he does not know what to > do about them. So he decides to try and kill Buffy to stop the feelings. Well i agree with that but I don't think his feelings are from the love he felt for Buffy , I think they originate from his obssession with Buffy. He does have a history of having certain fixations with certain people. I think he is obsessed with purity and innocense. He wants to destroy it, perhaps to supress the feelings of good he once had in his life and the demon tries extra hard to destroy that. I think the more the person is good in there life the more evil they will be in there undead life. Shonaille - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 21:21:35 EST From: LilyRei Subject: Re: BUFFY: I have a good question... In a message dated 98-04-04 20:57:56 EST, newell@compusmart.ab.ca writes: << Isn't it Giles job to tell the other watchers of a slayer's death so they can act accordingly and start training another slayer?<< Maybe not. Maybe notification is handled through some big, cosmic, all- powerful *thing* like "The Force" and it just gets dealt with without human intervention. =) LilyRei . . . well, *I* think it's funny . . . - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 21:04:53 -0600 (CST) From: Salacious Crumb Subject: Re: BUFFY: CRAMPS!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On Sat, 4 Apr 1998, Brenda Barrett wrote: > Does Buffy (as in Sarah Michelle Gellar) get cramps when she's near a > vampire? Why would she? You don't see her doubled over in pain every time she goes out patrolling and runs into vamps, do you? It wouldn't make a very effective slayer if she were allergic to her job, you know. JC - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 19:48:45 PST From: "jenne b" Subject: BUFFY: another question I have another question on differences between the movie and the show...Merrick knew Buffy was the slayer because she had that "ugly mole"....Does SMG's Buffy have a mole??? jenneblu ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Apr 98 23:42:57 PST From: "Sapphire" Subject: re: BUFFY: another question She had it (the mole) removed in the movie, so the *new* Buffy probably wouldn't have it either. In answer to someone's questions about how the other watchers know when a slayer has died, I got the impression from the movie that the new slayer doesn't come into full power until the other slayer has died. Meaning, they knew Kendra was *a* chosen one in advance, probably because of the mark or something, and they trained her, but she didn't come into full slayer power until Buffy died. The dreams woudlnt' have started until she was 'called', nor would the spider sense, as Buffy called it. I am = guessing, but it is more of an educated guess. I know that the movie is not the show, but I think that some things from the movie can be applied to the show. It could also be one of those things were they think someone *may* be chosen to be a slayer, but aren't sure, and they train them anyway, just in case. The 'one in every generation' thing to me actually means that there should be only one in a generation whether she dies or not, and then they should have to wait for the next to be born and grow up. That is how I always took it until he pulled the Kendra on us. The Master seemed to think that a Buffy being a slayer was actually a rare thing, like he hadn't seen that many. You would think if there were *always* a slayer that it wouldn't be that way, I don't kno= w. And if that many have died, then they weren't that good to start with, were they? Man, I shouldn't start to think this late... Sapphire: sapphire@chaos.taylored.com X-Over Crossover list admin: X-Over: XF Crossover archive http://www.busprod.com/aclaybor Taking the Challenge: BtVS Challenge Archive ; SPCDD; LOMIG ; G-Woman #3 Keeper of Willow's momentary obsession with sore thumbs, Willow's whimper of sadness for her dead fish and her fake frog fit in = KBD - ---------- I have another question on differences between the movie and the show...Merrick knew Buffy was the slayer because she had that "ugly mole"....Does SMG's Buffy have a mole??? jenneblu _____________________ - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 00:19:09 -0500 From: Lawless Subject: Re: BUFFY: another question There were very few concepts transferred from the movie to the TV version. the best way to view it is as completely separate. Buffy doesn't have a mole, doesn't have cramp/spider sense, and never had a watcher named Merrick. The only real ideas transferred over are the concept that she's the slayer and kills vampires. Plus the main things like the concept of watchers and a stake through the heart kills vamps. Lawless Sapphire wrote: > I have another question on differences between the movie and the > show...Merrick knew Buffy was the slayer because she had that "ugly > mole"....Does SMG's Buffy have a mole??? > jenneblu - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 21:46:17 -0800 (PST) From: Thomas Norwood Subject: BUFFY: IKWYDLS In Response to the IKWYDLS Debate, Kevin Willamson Wrote Scream and IKWYDLS. Dimension Films Produced Scream, while Columbia Pictures produced IKWYDLS. So when the IKWYDLS trailers came out saying "From The Creator Of Scream" Dimension films sued Columbia Pictures and won. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 00:51:54 -0500 From: JW Subject: [none] Cast, crew and WB execs converged on Los Angeles' El Ray Theater Thursday night to celebrate the end of their second season. A marquis outside the theater read "Welcome Sunnydale Class of '98." Those present included James Marsters (Spike), Seth Green (Oz), Nicholas Brennan (Xander), David Boreanaz (Angel), Charisma Carpenter (Cordelia), and series creator Joss Whedon. Anthony Head (Giles) flew back to England a few days prior. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 17:03:53 +1000 From: Horsten Subject: BUFFY: Slayers My opinion on what happens with slayers - There are slayers born every year but they are only called when one dies. There could be thousands of girls who are expecting to become a slayer but will only be called after the previous slayer dies. Kendra knowing she is going to become a slayer fits in with my idea of what happens. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 06:01:50 EDT From: IRamadi Subject: Re: BUFFY: IKWYDLS In a message dated 05/04/98 05:48:33 GMT, you write: << So when the IKWYDLS trailers came out saying "From The Creator Of Scream" Dimension films sued Columbia Pictures and won. >> on what ground may i ask? - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 06:01:49 EDT From: IRamadi Subject: BUFFY: Yesterday's program... All, Us UK peeps saw the 2nd episode of the 2nd series yesterday. It was the one where the am.footballer was brought back to life and his brother was cutting up people's bodies just to make a perfect partner for him. BTW, they never show what the title of the episode is over here. Anyway, I thought that, that was the first natural episode but then I remembered the vampire at the beginning, IMHO i thought if they cut that scene out it would have been perfect. but then again, if they did cut it out viewers would be asking, why was she at the graveyard? anyway, the reason why i said that the wes craven created scream and ikwydls was because the trailer of ikwydls went along as "from the creator of scream" which i thought was wes craven. if i'm wrong then i stand corrected. on the subject of movies, the orig. buffy film starred luke perry, am i right? if so, who did he play? is it worth getting on video? ids - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 06:22:00 EDT From: TknoPagan Subject: BUFFY: Sarah on E! I was watching this E! News April Fools Day jokes they played on their employees. This newscaster was saying "Our own Todd Newton is going to marry Buffy The Vampire Slayers, Sarah Michelle Gellar!" Then Todd walks in and starts going on on how he hadn't propsed yet and how he called her publicist and he didnt want her to know he was goign to propose. So, I thought it was funny. Okay, well I hope everyone realizes that this was a joke and this doesnt start a long list of e-mails. Jason Martinez TknoPagan@aol.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:53:52 EDT From: Daphne1784 Subject: Re: BUFFY: another question In a message dated 98-04-05 00:25:33 EST, lawless@smgfan.com write: << Buffy doesn't have a mole, doesn't have cramp/spider sense, and never had a watcher named Merrick. The only real ideas transferred over are the concept that she's the slayer and kills vampires. >> As in the movie Buffy said that she had the mole removed which means that she wouldn't have it in the show. She may not have cramps but she did refer to having a spider sense. We don't know for sure but in some episodes she has refered to her past watcher but never gives a name which could infer that it is Merrick! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:53:38 EDT From: VampGrl22 Subject: Re: BUFFY: another question In a message dated 98-04-05 09:57:25 EDT, Daphne writes: << We don't know for sure but in some episodes she has refered to her past watcher but never gives a name which could infer that it is Merrick! >> Which episode was this in? I have no memory of it :) VampGirl - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:06:53 EDT From: BLS7877 Subject: Re: BUFFY: another question Daphne writes: << We don't know for sure but in some episodes she has refered to her past watcher but never gives a name which could infer that it is Merrick! >> Vamp Girl Wrote: Which episode was this in? I have no memory of it :) I was under the impression that it's a 'known' that he was her watcher, a carry-over from the Movie, since she was already partially trained, and she mentions the same city from the movie. I just kind of absorbed everything viable from the movie into the TV Buffy, and ignored the rest. Mathair - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 14:11:30 -0400 From: "Cola" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Yesterday's program... ids wrote: >on the subject of movies, the orig. buffy film starred luke perry, am i right? >if so, who did he play? is it worth getting on video? luke perry played Pike in the movie....kind of a xander-ish sidekick/boyfriend for Buffy. Carolyn - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 12:32:00 -0600 From: "newell" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Angel's insides - ---------- > From: Donna Hughes > Date: Sunday, April 05, 1998 10:53 AM > > > This is awsome ideas, but in the episode with the Judge. Angelus > couldn't be killed by the Judge because he had no human in him. If he > had feelings for Buffy wouldn't that be some sort of human? > Hmm, that's true I think vampires retain certain amount of emotion. I read somewhere that reptiles have this thing called a reptillian complex. They are capable of certain emotions such as aggression and pain. Well, demons are like reptiles in a way and all vampires originate from a pure demon that bit a human which them bit another etc.. So, maybe vampirism allows certain emotions to be kept and also the capability to fake other emotions such as love. Or maybe vampirism taints all human emotions and that's why Angel's acts of love are all so twisted. Just a theory. Shonaille - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:38:40 -0300 From: Aida or Fernanda Subject: Re: BUFFY: another question HI Buffy fans! I read a message from Lawless trying to explain a few differences between the Buffy movie and the TV show. I definitely agree with him: "...There were very few concepts transferred from the movie to the TV version. the best way to view it is as completely separate..." And I just wanted to say I didn't watch the Buffy movie and so far, I haven't missed it. Actually, I think the movie is able to let us understand the changes Buffy went through in her life. But we can figure that out by just watching the TV show. Aida from Brazil - -- "If I fail, at least I will have failed my way instead of failing someone else's way" Jodie Foster (actress and movie director) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 20:12:10 GMT From: flagg@wwa.com (Flagg) Subject: Re: BUFFY: CRAMPS!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >Why would she? You don't see her doubled over in pain every time she=20 >goes out patrolling and runs into vamps, do you? It wouldn't make a = very=20 >effective slayer if she were allergic to her job, you know. Well, you must not have seen the movie, then. In the movie, that was her 'early warning system'. Joss Whedon left it out for several reasons, but mainly I think due to the fact that it would have ruined the whole Angel storyline early on, if Buffy could have detected that he was a vamp. - --Flagg - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 16:43:57 -0400 From: Michael Hawes Subject: BUFFY: Buffy list please read hi does anyone know how to get the list mail redirected to another server? if any one can help me I would be very great full - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:59:46 -0600 (CST) From: Salacious Crumb Subject: Re: BUFFY: CRAMPS!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Flagg wrote: > > Well, you must not have seen the movie, then. In the movie, that was > her 'early warning system'. > I DID see the movie (how could I not? It's on TV every time I turn around), but the person who posed the message asked specifically about SMG, and SMG has never demonstrated any cramping. Which is a good thing. I thought it was dumb anyway. JC - - ------------------------------ End of buffy-digest V2 #209 *************************** To subscribe to buffy or buffy-digest, send the command subscribe buffy-digest or subscribe buffy to majordomo@xmission.com. You will need to go through a confirmation process, and the listowners have to manually approve your subscription request, so it may take some time. Back issues of this digest can be found at: ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/buffy/archive/ For help, contact Jill Kirby (jtkirby@mcs.com) or sah (romana@mindspring.com)