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Subject: buffy-digest V2 #508
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buffy-digest        Wednesday, October 7 1998        Volume 02 : Number 508



In this issue:

       Re: BUFFY: DMP--my .02
       BUFFY: Re: buffy-digest V2 #504
       BUFFY: Joss on Posting Board last night
       BUFFY: DMParty
       BUFFY: My 2 cents
       Re: BUFFY:Neato Giles
       BUFFY: Re: Dead Man's Party
       Re:  BUFFY: Group Hug? (Was: Xander/Acartha?/Relationships/Trance )
       Re:  BUFFY: Group Hug? (Was: Xander/Acartha?/Relationships/Tran
       Re: BUFFY: My 2 cents
       BUFFY: Giles' alter ego
       BUFFY: "Anne" Quotes On GASP! Site
       BUFFY: DMP Relationships
       BUFFY: Pat
       BUFFY: Overnight ratings for Dead Man's Party
       Re: BUFFY: DMP Relationships
       BUFFY: ZEN + questions
       re: BUFFY: ZEN + questions
       Re: BUFFY: Thriller; Joyce/Pat relationship
       Re:  Re:  BUFFY: Group Hug? (Was: Xander/Acartha?/Relationships/Tran
       Re: BUFFY:Joyce/Pat relationship
       Re:  Re:  BUFFY: Group Hug? (Was: Xander/Acartha?/Relationships
       Re:  BUFFY: ZEN + questions
       BUFFY: re:Pat & Joyce
       Re:  re: BUFFY: ZEN + questions
       Re: BUFFY: Group Hug? (Was: Xander/Acartha?/Relationships/Tran
       Re:  re: BUFFY: ZEN + questions
       BUFFY: Sunnydale Police/Jonathan
       BUFFY: Pat
       Re: BUFFY: Dead Man's Party and Big Picture Thoughts -- Long

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy
or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 98 12:21:43 edt
From: <csummers@banyan.utelfla.com> (Charles Summers)
Subject: Re: BUFFY: DMP--my .02

<All Buffy needed was a little time away.>

Great for Buffy.  Not so great for her friends who have feelings too.

Buffy probably could have avoided all the drama by just opening up when she 
returned.  Her silence forced her friends to bottle up their feelings until 
they exploded in less than healthy ways.

Chas


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 09:28:24 -0700
From: Wirchler <wirchler@pacbell.net>
Subject: BUFFY: Re: buffy-digest V2 #504

Yahooo!!!!!

This was a GREAT episode!!!  Giles is DA Man!!!!!  :)  My wife just gave me one of those 'ok,
dear' looks when I cheered, but she agreed with me!!!

As to the comments on the other characters attitudes?  Joyce was at the boiling point, they
built up to that the whole ep....plus, she had Schnapps  (Did anyone else bust out when they
heard this?)  Xander?  He was acting out of unresolved feelings, but he had nowhere to go,
since he used everyone else BUT himself for arguments...  Cordy?  She was helping, in her
way.  Buffy was just not happy to have the 'Cordelia view'.  Willow I thought was best of
all, and then at the end in the coffee shop was awesome!!  She thought she lost her best
friend, and then to suddenly have her back?  It takes getting used to, take it from a guy who
knows EXACTLY how that felt. (minus the supernatural overtones, of course!)

Again, I say, YAHOOOOO!!!!  This was a KILLER episode!!!  Everything I wanted, and that's
what I care about most in a show!!!

Wirchler
Keeper of Spike's (reluctant) respect for Buffy!

Note to self: If someone asks if you're a god, you say yes!!!

Giles:  Would you like me to convince you? (While crushing Snyder...paraphrased?)  (LOVED
this line!!!)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:02:00 EDT
From: RayneFire@aol.com
Subject: BUFFY: Joss on Posting Board last night

Joss was on the Posting Board last night
http://www.buffy.com/slow/index_bronzepb.html, and I just thought I'd pass
this on to the list

Arctic -- That Giles clip was from ep 8 of last year and he actually said
"Jenny" not "Angel" and why they did that I'm not sure but it did make things
pretty interesting. Just had to clear that up for no apparant reason.

A somewhat mixed response to tonite's ep. That's cool. But I hope you all
benefitted from the message: VIOLENCE SOLVES WHAT TALKING WON'T. That's
something we can all learn from, dontchya think?

Why do you all hate Pat? I was so down with Pat. But Pat not beloved. Maybe
she was just too damn real.

Remember when Xander was an awkward nerd with a wise cracking kind of charm? I
was much like Xander then. Remember when Xander became a fiery stud who's not
afraid to speak his mind? Less me. Fun of TV -- characters evolve. Tragedy of
life: people don't. Well, I didn't. So if Xander's a little hot headed and
people come down on him it's okay cuz we've kind of parted ways.

Some differing opinions on the argument -- which means we did at least
SOMETHING right. Kai said during the ep that she agreed with everyone, and
that was the point. Everyone's got a valid perspective and a real block about
seeing other people's. Such is life. Nobody's totally right. Except Johnathan
- -- that guy's got it WIRED!

PMDAWN? Buffy lyric? Ned to know more -- charting inroads into Pop culture
most important pasttime. Couches in bronze not new. Those who love Aly should
have fun next week -- it's not a Willowcentric ep but she has some great
moments.

What's up with everyone thinking lesbian subtext? Can't a woman have a friend,
for God's sake? Pat was just one of those nosy momfriends that kids can't
stand. Traci lords is not the Mayor. And BECKER, although Marti didn't have to
do anything sexual to get where she is, she did have to do a dance with a boa
constrictor. Oddly enough, she didn't do it nearly as well as David Greenwalt.
good thing she can write!

SonMar: What is name of song and or album? And what's up with no previews?
That's bugging me big time. But be assured -- all new eps for a good long
while. i'm a bout to start writing the X-mas ep.

One more and I'm gone. Tired and sick tonite.

When someone is missing, all you can think is of their safety and your
missage. But when they come back it's simply more complicated -- and the more
you missed them, the more complicated it is. Hence Willow and everyone's
reaction to Buffy in this ep. Things are not entirely resolved (Buf has
ISSUES), but by and large the group will be in better shape from now on. At
least on this issue. good night, sleep well. El Josso.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 10:01:16 -0700
From: Autumn Nazarian <alanazar@jasper.uor.edu>
Subject: BUFFY: DMParty

anyone else wonder if the title had to do with Aly's dead man on campus
project?

anyways... time to vent.

I loved this ep.  However, I have problems with the new season, and a
bit of last season as well.  here is the first part of my complaint:


I don't necessarily have a favorite episode, but most fondly remembered
are:
prophecy girl, nightmares, ted, and the pack.  I guess I am more of a
first season kind of girl.  I miss the simplicity of those eps.  Not
that the soap opera that has ensued hasn't been fun, but I think the
supernatural elements have suffered "creatively" since the emotional
plot became more important.

for example:

first season monsters/problems:
preying mantis ho
hyena possessed clique
all nightmares coming true
demon in the internet
mother/daughter reversal cheerleading witch issue

these were original- great plots, that kept the teenage years metaphors
going.

the last two seasons seems to be old standbys:

the frankenstein
the werewolf
the mummies/crossed with pet semetary
the demons  (unfortunately always in a similar form.  does anyone care
about demon's individual characteristics? no. they're here to destroy
the world...lalalala.)

____________________

I am rambling- but I'm at work, and it seems the thing to do. :-)

anyhow, I still LOVE the show to death... but I miss the old monsters-
that carried the metaphors themselves, instead of being a supernatural
background to some emotional lesson buffy learns with her friends.

what do you guys think????

Autumn




- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:09:37 EDT
From: ZABESTAG@aol.com
Subject: BUFFY: My 2 cents

Am I the only one who thinks Buffy should say (something to the effect of),
"That's enough! Has everyone forgotten that I did my job so well that I DIED
for this gig? Or that I have saved the world numerous times, killed thousands
of vampires AND assorted demons and made sure that our friendly werewolf
WASN'T killed by a hunter? Or that I have sacrificed years of fun and games
- -mostly- to make sure you guys are safe? So I made a bad decision, I am only
human. I have to think of MYSELF once in a while."
Perhaps I am crazy, but I would say she does pretty damn good for a 17 year
old who has to save the world daily. Seems like her friends are a tad selfish
too.

Obviously this is just my 2 cents but I get tired of all of Buffy's friends
ragging on her.

Liz S.
"Willow, you are the best human ever! Well, that's the cookies talking, but
you ROCK!" - Ted

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:13:48 EDT
From: Jazzetta@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY:Neato Giles

Regarding the scene with Giles and Snider.... It almost makes you want to hug
Giles!!!  I have always thought Giles was a nice man in an older, kinda geeky
way.... but MAN!!!!  That was a great scene and I'm starting to respect Giles
a lot more!!!  GO GILES!!!

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:12:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: John Hsieh <sjhsieh@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: BUFFY: Re: Dead Man's Party

<<But, on the bright side, at least we got more glimpses of just how much
Giles is in love with Buffy....>>

Xcuse me?!?!?!  The Dawson's Creek chatroom is two doors over.

- -john



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:45:03 EDT
From: Alverdine@aol.com
Subject: Re:  BUFFY: Group Hug? (Was: Xander/Acartha?/Relationships/Trance )

In a message dated 10/7/98 4:36:44 PM, you wrote:

<<Despite pat endings--Buffy came home/Group Hug--we are seeing one
interpersonal issue being dealed w/at a time. >>

There was no group hug. Willow hugged Buffy--maybe because Buffy just saved
her life? Hmm, do ya think so? And besides, they had already begun to talk
things out in Buffy's room.

But Oz and Cordy remained in the background in that scene (mostly because they
really have no reason to be mad at Buffy). 

Xander said "NIce moves." That doesn't exactly warm the heart and I think it's
because there is still unresolved stuff between him and Buffy.

As for Giles and Joyce--they both love Buffy no matter what. Giles hasn't
really unleashed yet but I think we'll see that come out later. And Joyce said
her peace before all Hellmouth broke loose.

So no, I don't agree that this was a "pat" ending. There are still unresolved
issues between Buffy and Xander (like the beating she owes him) and between
Giles and Buffy.

Kelly

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 98 13:29:27 edt
From: <csummers@banyan.utelfla.com> (Charles Summers)
Subject: Re:  BUFFY: Group Hug? (Was: Xander/Acartha?/Relationships/Tran

<There are still unresolved
issues between Buffy and Xander (like the beating she owes him)>

Buffy owes Xander a debt of gratitude for being the only friend to stand up 
and say what he thinks is right and override the groupthink mentality.  He 
owes her an apology for his lie, but since it made no difference in the end 
he certainly deserves no beating.

Chas


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 12:31:28 -0500
From: lazarus@execpc.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: My 2 cents

At 01:09 PM 10/7/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Am I the only one who thinks Buffy should say (something to the effect of),
>"That's enough! Has everyone forgotten that I did my job so well that I DIED
>for this gig?

That's true, and I always wait for something like that to be said on Buffy
(or any other show), and it never does.  When Buffy was in her bedroom
packing again and everyone became aware of it, all that was said was
essentially how bad she was to think of leaving again, not WHY was she
doing it again.  Buffy should have said this was the result of what she
overheard her mother say in the kitchen.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:32:02 -0700
From: "Ash or Shelley" <moondoggie@thegrid.net>
Subject: BUFFY: Giles' alter ego

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Go Giles, Go Giles! It's your birthday! Go Giles!


Okay now that the cheerleading is out of the way...

Wow,  Giles just kicked bootie in this ep...
you should have seen my living room last night, between me and my =
husband it looked like a Niner-Cowboy game, with the niners up by thirty =
points, with all the hollering and hooting and high-fiving...

we've all seen Giles Ripper side come out before, but this was the first =
time I've ever noticed him ENJOYING it!

What with that great evil smile of his when he was manhandling Snyder, =
it was just too cool...

Does anyone think Giles is kinda like the Incredible Hulk with the =
alter-ego thingey?
"Mild Mannered Bruce Ban...I mean Rupert Giles, the librarian, by =
day..."

What do y'all think big bad Snydey is going to do to Giles now that he =
knows he is not just going to sit back and let Buffy not attend school?
I think he is going to try and get the mayor to take care of the "Giles =
problem"....

Gidget
Proud Cordy-Girl!

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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Go Giles, Go Giles! It's your birthday! Go Giles!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Okay now that the cheerleading is out of the way...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Wow,&nbsp; Giles just kicked bootie in this ep...</DIV>
<DIV>you should have seen my living room last night, between me and my =
husband=20
it looked like a Niner-Cowboy game, with the niners up by thirty points, =
with=20
all the hollering and hooting and high-fiving...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>we've all seen Giles Ripper side come out before, but this was the =
first=20
time I've ever noticed him ENJOYING it!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>What with that great evil smile of his when he was manhandling =
Snyder, it=20
was just too cool...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Does anyone think Giles is kinda like the Incredible Hulk with the=20
alter-ego thingey?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&quot;Mild Mannered Bruce Ban...I =
mean Rupert=20
Giles, the librarian, by day...&quot;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>What do y'all think big bad Snydey is going to do to Giles now that =
he=20
knows he is not just going to sit back and let Buffy not attend =
school?</DIV>
<DIV>I think he is going to try and get the mayor to take care of the=20
&quot;Giles problem&quot;....</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Gidget</DIV>
<DIV>Proud Cordy-Girl!</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_018B_01BDF1DD.B8A61340--


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:11:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sonja Marie <whtrose@eskimo.com>
Subject: BUFFY: "Anne" Quotes On GASP! Site

To Tricia and anyone else who was having problems with the Quote Update:
it's been fixed seems that both Geocities and Planetx ate my update and I
had to reload it. 

Sonja Marie - President - Anthony Stewart Head Fan Club (ASHFC)
Official Anthony Head WebPage - http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/7728/
Owner of the Anthony S. Head, Buffy-Beta Fic, Jeff Fahey & Paul Wylie Lists
Pres. of Giles' Appreciation Society Panters - GASP!- Keeper of Coats & Ties
Anthony Stewart Head (Giles-BTVS) About What Fans Sent Him in the Mail:
"Fair amount of lingerie, yeah, all of which I tried, none of which fitted"



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:39:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: Kelly White <kwhite@siue.edu>
Subject: BUFFY: DMP Relationships

did anyone else notice that the physical relationships in the group seem
to have moved to the next level for Willow/Oz and Cordy/Xander?
Cordy/Xander are all over each other in public, makes you wonder what's
going on in the parked car???  Willow is not just dating, she is seriously
dating.  Wonder just how things are going there??

Kelly J. White
SIUE Computer Support and Service
http://www.siue.edu/~kwhite



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:51:46 -0700
From: "Ash or Shelley" <moondoggie@thegrid.net>
Subject: BUFFY: Pat

>>did anyone else get suspicious of Pat (Joyce's
annoying friend) right away?  <<

*Raising Hand*


ME!!

My husband and I came up with Buffy Law #1:

1. Anytime someone helpful or nice comes along, they will either die, join
the Scooby Gang or be the ultimate evil Buffy must defeat in the big battle
at the end.  See: Ted, Ford, Pat, Jenny, Kendra, Jenny's Uncle

Gidget
Proud Cordy-Girl!


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 14:18:20 -0400
From: Jeff Rohaly <rohaly@iaw.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Overnight ratings for Dead Man's Party

Last night's episode, Dead Man's Party, got a 6.1 rating/10 share in the
overnight Nielsens for households.  Overnight ratings are based on viewing
in only 40 of the largest television markets (going up to 42 at some point
this month, maybe it already has), not the nation as a whole.  Felicity
received a 5.8 rating/9 share in the hour after Buffy, down 12% from a
6.6/10 last week.  

I must admit I'm shocked -- but happily shocked -- that Buffy has
maintained its performance whereas Felicity has dropped substantially.
Actually, I'm not happy that Felicity dropped, I really like that show,
just more surprised.  Buffy's 10 share equaled the performance of King of
the Hill over on FOX, although I'm not sure how Buffy did just in that
first half-hour.

For year-on-year comparison, last Monday Oct. 6 1997, Inca Mummy Girl aired
and had a 4.9/7 for its first half-hour and 5.1/7 for its second half-hour,
in the overnight markets in which it aired.  

Here are the overnight numbers for the last few episodes:
September 29, Anne: 6.1/10
September 22, Becoming Part 2 (repeat): 4.0/6
September 15, Becoming Part 1 (repeat): 3.2/5

Jeff Rohaly
rohaly@iaw.com
http://www.iaw.on.ca/~rohaly/tvschedule/buffy.html (archive of Buffy's
Nielsen ratings)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:22:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Hickerson <mhickers@usit.net>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: DMP Relationships

> did anyone else notice that the physical relationships in the group seem
> to have moved to the next level for Willow/Oz and Cordy/Xander?
> Cordy/Xander are all over each other in public, makes you wonder what's
> going on in the parked car???  Willow is not just dating, she is seriously
> dating.  Wonder just how things are going there??

	When Willow made these comments, (call me naive here) but I didn't
think it was about a new physical side to the relationship.  I took it
more as that she and Oz had moved out of the flirting/first couple of
dates but still free to see other people stage to more of a
boyfriend/girlfriend kind of stage.  Where they don't see other people and
to some extent she is getting over her crush on Xander.  I don't think
it's quite moved into the realm of being as serious as Buffy and Angel
were back in Suprise--at least not yet.  I think it will be interesting to
see if and how this develops.
	
Just my two cents.
Michael


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 13:52 EST
From: KSucher@abc.com (Kelli Sucher)
Subject: BUFFY: ZEN + questions

     From ZENtertainment:  
     
     Juliet Landau (BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER's Drusilla) has joined her 
     father Martin in the cast of CARLO'S WAKE, a comedy based on the
     Rosie Taravella play PA'S FUNERAL.
     
     
     Also, exactly how was Buffy exonerated for Kendra's death?  They 
     mentioned the charges had been dropped, but how?
     
     And how the heck was there a dead cat just sitting on the top of a 
     bookshelf in Buffy's garage?  On second thought, nobody answer that, I 
     just don't want to know!
     
     
     Kelli
     ksucher@abc.com
     


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 98 14:55:48 edt
From: <csummers@banyan.utelfla.com> (Charles Summers)
Subject: re: BUFFY: ZEN + questions

< exactly how was Buffy exonerated for Kendra's death?>

The witnesses that saw she didn't do it--Xander, Giles, etc.

Of course, the police would want to know who did do it--I would like to see 
that explanation!

Plus, dropping the murder charge is one thing, but what about her resisting 
arrest and flipping that cop like a cheese omelet?  That likely would never 
be dropped.

Chas


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:58:54 CST
From: "Cydney, " <WILLICA@LFC.Edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Thriller; Joyce/Pat relationship

>
> I picked up on this as well.  Actually, I started sensing something
> other than a platonic friendship when I saw Pat coming out of Buffy's
> house for the first time.  Now, as I reflect on my reaction to that
> scene, I wonder why that was the FIRST thing that popped into my head.
> At the party, I definitely sensed some chemistry between them, though I
> don't recall seeing them kissing.  N
> Did anyone else pick up on this, or was it just me (and David Ngan)?
> 
> Allen
> 

I picked up on it too!  When I first notived their "chemistry"  my 
first thought was, "Some dirty minded fanfic author is going to make 
so much out of this!"

 I noticed that when Pat talks to Buffy that first time 
outside the house, she seems very possessive of Joyce and her anger at 
Buffy seemed out of place for someone who was "just a friend."  In fact 
she reminded me of Ted (before it was revealed that he was an 
android) and the way he would team up on Buffy on Joyce's side.

Also, the scene in the kitchen when they were drinking seemed very 
intimate.

The Powers that be seem to be setting up a Giles/ Joyce romance.   I 
would honestly rather see Joyce doing a chick than doing Giles!  Giles and 
Joyce have zero chemistry.

Cydney


** Proud Guardian of Ethan and Giles' Not So Subtle Sexual Tension **

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:15:16 EDT
From: Alverdine@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Re:  BUFFY: Group Hug? (Was: Xander/Acartha?/Relationships/Tran

In a message dated 10/7/98 5:34:43 PM, you wrote:

<<Buffy owes Xander a debt of gratitude for being the only friend to stand up 
and say what he thinks is right and override the groupthink mentality.  He 
owes her an apology for his lie, but since it made no difference in the end 
he certainly deserves no beating.>>

I really don't want to step into that paticular discussion considering it has
a tendency to cause people on both sides to flare up and it just degenerates
into this big pile of stinking rubbish.

But since you brought it up. . .<evil grin>

Xander was out of line both last night and in Becoming part 2 and maybe he
doesn't (necessarily--though I would enjoy watching it) deserve a beating but
he does deserve some serious doghouse time. Someone mentioned earlier that
Xander was living in a glass house and has been throwing some pretty big rocks
out and it's true. What right does he have to berate Buffy on her decisions
when he's made some pretty shady ones himself i.e. lying about the curse?
Let's face it, Xander's been playing in the middle of the pool for a while now
and it's time for him to grow up and swim over into the deep end with
everybody else or just go back to the kiddie pool.

But since I wasn't going to get into this I'll just say that all I meant (in
my earlier post) is that, contrary to other opinions, DMP did not fix all the
bad mojo between these characters, as was mentioned, in a group hug. Buffy and
Xander are going to have to confront the issues sometime and that is why you
didn't see any overly-friendly overtures between them last night, nor will
you, I think, for a few more episodes. It IS a big deal and whether it was
wrong or right to do what Xander did (in Becoming2) Buffy is going to have
some hard feelings about it and so will, I suspect, Willow when/if they ever
figure out that he did tell a big fib.

Kelly

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:20:19 EDT
From: DLovlyTina@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY:Joyce/Pat relationship

Yes, Pat and Joyce did kiss when Pat came to the party, but only on each
other's cheeks (face cheeks, you sickos), which is not that uncommon.  I have
to admit, I was a little worried during the kitchen scene, but I don't think
that Joss and the gang would have killed off Pat so immediately if they were
planning to develope any kind of lesbian angle.  I hope that they don't,
because I think that it would be a really extraneous subplot that the show
doesn't really have time for.  Plus, it opens up the strong possibility of a
different kind of "a very special episode of Buffy" that we have all
(including Joss) regarded with such horror.
Just my 2 cents. . . 

A

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 98 15:18:07 edt
From: <csummers@banyan.utelfla.com> (Charles Summers)
Subject: Re:  Re:  BUFFY: Group Hug? (Was: Xander/Acartha?/Relationships

<What right does he have to berate Buffy on her decisions
when he's made some pretty shady ones himself >

What right does Willow have?  Or Joyce for that matter?

I'll tell you what right.  When you see a friend or relative heading over a 
cliff, you have a responsibility to stop them.  Real friends don't say, 
"that's nice, wear clean underwear on your trip"--they try to slap some 
sense into you.

And Xander was mean to Buffy last night.  She hurt his and the rest of the 
gang's feelings by bailing and didn't have the courtesy to discuss her 
actions with them when she got back.  Willow berated Buffy in her way, so 
did Joyce--why does Xander alone draw everyone's ire?

Xander should apologize/pay for his lie, but his actions in DMP were no 
different than anyone else's IMHO.

Chas


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:22:03 EDT
From: Alverdine@aol.com
Subject: Re:  BUFFY: ZEN + questions

In a message dated 10/7/98 6:56:42 PM, you wrote:

<<     Also, exactly how was Buffy exonerated for Kendra's death?  They 
     mentioned the charges had been dropped, but how?>>

It wasn't discussed but I am assuming that lack of evidence (forensic or
otherwise) and witness statements (Xander,Cordelia,Giles,and Willow) and the
fact that being found kneeling over a dead body is not a crime had something
to do with it.

Kelly

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 12:24:36 -0700
From: Autumn Nazarian <alanazar@jasper.uor.edu>
Subject: BUFFY: re:Pat & Joyce

I thought of that kind of twist as well.  It's funny that Joss posted
that "why do people always assume... if there are two women together" or

something to that effect.  (I believe)   Personally, I think it is the
other way around.  In TV land, unless you are on Seinfeld or Ellen or
some other show that depends (to some extent) on very liberal material,
the idea of a lesbian mom is absolutely ridiculous... it would never
happen... and yet it does, with some frequency.  I have three friends
who's moms came out after a divorce.  (I do live in LA tho)

So all I am saying is that I thought it was a little intimate as well-
and I got the vibe much more from Pat.  Perhaps this is because she
seemed desperate for company, i.e. the hobbies (mexican cooking class,
book club) and that desperation came off as someone clingy- whether
romantic or not.  She seems like she'd rather drown a friend than ever
let go.

on another note however, I must say that Buffy really needs to back off
and try liking someone in her mom's life.  Not that there has been a
great track record- but she always reacts like they are a huge
threat.... right off the bat


thoughts to ponder

A





- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:25:56 EDT
From: Alverdine@aol.com
Subject: Re:  re: BUFFY: ZEN + questions

In a message dated 10/7/98 7:04:02 PM, you wrote:

<<Plus, dropping the murder charge is one thing, but what about her resisting 
arrest and flipping that cop like a cheese omelet?  That likely would never 
be dropped.>>

Eh, probably too much paper work. Add to that the fact that she's a minor
being arrested on zero evidence and it could possibly have been a major
scandal for the Sunnydale P.D. and I think they figured it was best just left
alone.

Kelly

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 12:27:49 -0700
From: Autumn Nazarian <alanazar@jasper.uor.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Group Hug? (Was: Xander/Acartha?/Relationships/Tran

I kind of saw last nights big emotional scene as an outreach- or a
situation where most of ones loved ones corner them and give it to them
in order to break them down, and break down their barriers in the
meantime.  Not saying it was right....

A


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 98 15:30:51 edt
From: <csummers@banyan.utelfla.com> (Charles Summers)
Subject: Re:  re: BUFFY: ZEN + questions

<Eh, probably too much paper work.>

If the other cop hadn't shot at Buffy, I agree they might have swept it 
under the rug but there is no way with the shooting.  They would need a 
reason to justify it.

Chas


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 14:31:08 -0500
From: dmw <whittakd@lib.enmuros.cc.nm.us>
Subject: BUFFY: Sunnydale Police/Jonathan

> Wanted murderess theory:  I also think that Xan may have 
> mentioned everybody being ok and clearing up police issue[on way to 
> Spike's]  If I am wrong somebody please correct. Until I am informed 
> otherwise IMO the wanted part does not factor into runaway status.

Even if they threw out the murder charges, the police could also get
Buffy for resisting arrest and assualting an officer - but this is the
Sunnydale Police Dept., which doesn't seem to operate like regular
police departments.

Also, was the guy eating the dip at the party Jonathan?

David

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 15:37:10 -0400
From: genevieve@gist.com (Genevieve Faulkner)
Subject: BUFFY: Pat

>1. Anytime someone helpful or nice comes along, they will either die, join
>the Scooby Gang or be the ultimate evil Buffy must defeat in the big battle
>at the end.  See: Ted, Ford, Pat, Jenny, Kendra, Jenny's Uncle
>

So far nice and helpful people just die or become evil.  The members of the
Gang just stumble in and sometimes start as more of a burden than a help
(Xander, Cordy)
I'm a Buffaholic
I'm Spike's slave--forever
Cordelia:  Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass.  (KBD)







- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:31:56 EDT
From: Tracyrr74@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Dead Man's Party and Big Picture Thoughts -- Long

In a message dated 10/7/98 4:37:03 AM Central Daylight Time, bear@plinet.com
writes:

<< I liked the spookiness of Buffy's dream -- I like that she's been using
 Good Angel as the voice of insight in her dreams ever since the time she
 figured out who Jenny C. really was. It didn't seem like his appearance was
 contract obligation to me... it fit with every other big dream she's had
 since things started getting really hairy.
  >>

That is my thouhts too! He has been showing up in her dreams for a while now.
Not alot of seen in eps but I bet in theory. Buffy doesn't seem surprised to
find him helping her out in her dreams, so I think she is quite used to it.
First with finding out with Jenny and then in the last 2 eps. I personally
think it shows how connected they are but that could be me

tra

- -

------------------------------

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