From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #1106 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Wednesday, January 31 2001 Volume 02 : Number 1106 In this issue: Re: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF [CANSLIM] IBD Composite Rating Re: [CANSLIM] watching Re: [CANSLIM] FII RE: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF RE: [CANSLIM] watching [CANSLIM] THE "I" IN CANSLIM [CANSLIM] ENTRY POINT Re: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF Re: [CANSLIM] watching Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Composite Rating Re: [CANSLIM] FII Re: [CANSLIM] watching Re: [CANSLIM] THE "I" IN CANSLIM Re: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF Re: [CANSLIM] watching [none] Re: [CANSLIM] FII Re: [CANSLIM] THE "I" IN CANSLIM RE: [CANSLIM] watching Re: [CANSLIM] THE "I" IN CANSLIM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:59:03 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF Hi Ann, A base and a cup (or cup w/handle) are entirely different chart patterns. And the only "DGO chart" is that which you get from DGO, I haven't looked at investors.com, but any chart there is an investors.com chart, not DGO. You get what you pay for, DGO isn't cheap, but it is what I am used to. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net ICQ # 5568838 - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ann Hollingworth To: Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:35 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF Tom, you said: On 12/8/00, this stock traded to a new high of 25.44 and closed there, on light volume. On 12/11 it traded to another new high of 27.375 and closed at 26.75 on volume heavier than average. Since then (to 12/21) it slid down. I consider the only nearby base to be from 12/26 to 1/12/01 when it began to break the pattern on its second consecutive day of above average volume. Keep in mind that I use DGO charts virtually exclusively. Other charting services can present a different image. I am looking at the DGO chart from investors.com. I don't understand why the base doesn't go from 12/11 (left side of cup) to 1/16 (right side of cup) with a little handle after that. Thank you everyone for your patience. - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:03:08 -0700 From: esetser Subject: [CANSLIM] IBD Composite Rating IBD is debuting a new "composite rating" in the paper on Wed. This rating is a combination of EPS, RPS, IGP Rank, SMR, and Acc/Dist along with a weighting for how far the stock is off its high. This looks to be pretty interesting, but it doesn't show up anywhere on the website. I wonder if this is a daily or weekly feature? I guess we will see over the next few days. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:15:43 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] watching Earl, You give me some homework, not an altogether unpleasant task. It's time for my rereading of HTMMIS. I will try to come up with an answer by the weekend sometime. But you are probably right in at least part, my dedication (some would claim obsession) with thinly traded, low priced, small and micro cap stocks has undoubtedly taken me away from present day, big cap oriented, CANSLIM. But I must admit, I do love the challenge of deciding whether I exit half at the +130% point or get greedy and go for +158%. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net ICQ # 5568838 - ----- Original Message ----- From: esetser To: Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] watching Tom, it seems to me you have crept away from CANSLIM, or at least WON's methods, in some of this discusssion. (see notes below) At 09:56 PM 1/30/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Ann, > >... >Many stocks will break out of a basing pattern, only to later >retreat right back into that base. If the breakout didn't go high >enough to give you a profit saving exit (normally at least 15% >over your entry, assuming the entry was correct) then you don't >want to be stopped out in the base. You only want a stop driven >exit to protect you from even greater loss of capital. Neither a >failed breakout, nor a stock again trading in an established >base, is threatening that. But if it falls below the bottom of >the base, then the next lower level of support is likely going to >be well over your 8% stop point. Thus, the ideal is to enter the >stock correctly from some kind of base formation, with an entry >point price such that an 8% stop would be just under the bottom >of the same base. This way, your stop takes you out before a >retreat becomes the edge of the cliff. You lose some money, but >can still play the game another day. In your case, it appears you >may have bought too late and too high, and must decide between >taking greater risks of a more serious loss, or just cashing in >and possibly missing a further advance. My understanding of WON and the 8% rule has never had anything to do with the depth of the base below the pivot. The 7-8% sell rule is there for capital preservation only. My take on it is the following: If you buy within 5% of the pivot, you have support at the pivot. The 8% rule gives you at least 3% margin below the pivot. I think WON uses the pivot as support rather than looking for some other base below that level. >And yes, the ideal pivot for a true handle of a cup is where the >slight droop of the handle begins to reverse. >From today's IBD Investor's Corner, "The exact buy point, also know as the pivot point, is usually 1/8 of a point above the highest level of the handle." I'm sure this is consistent in everything WON has written (HTMMIS, 25 lessons, etc.). I don't think I've ever seen an mention of a pivot point at the "droop". >Often, you may have >several days to plunge in, before the price creeps over the right >side of the cup. Sometimes, the b/o is massive and either you >bought while it's handle was still basing, or you missed it. On >the rare and few quality c&h formations I find, I tend to buy >when I see volume really, really drying up (less than, often way >less than) half of average. At that point, the idea is that we >have run out of sellers, and it only takes minor buying to start >the momentum of a breakout. > It looks to me like you are trying to "cheat" CANSLIM a little by getting in earlier. I have a good friend that also tries this, and does well at times. These entries would give you a little more profit potential, and a little more room on the downside before hitting the 8% point. However, I've seen a lot of stocks build the patterns where the handle ends up being a resumption of a downtrend. This also explains why your buy points seem to be consistently lower than those I come up with. I always use the handle high, double bottom high, or previous closing high to set my pivots. Generally, I end up buying anywhere from 2 - 5 % higher after the stock moves. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I thought it was important to point out a few differences in interpretation to give Ann a different opinion. And Ann, I looked through you list also. Overall I found a couple of good candidates, but quite a few stocks with 3 or 4 week bases. WON recommends strongly a 7-8 week base minimum and I lost quite a bit of money jumping in some short bases last spring. I reccomend you keep looking until you find at least 7 week bases. (And I'm sure others will chime in with differences on this one!!) >Hope this helps somehow, > >Tom Worley >stkguru@netside.net >ICQ # 5568838 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Ann Hollingworth >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 5:50 PM - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:14:20 -0700 From: "Patrick Wahl" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] FII Chart does look good, but the revenue growth is pretty unexciting, single digit last quarter,so I would think it would have a limited upside. Couple others I saw tonight that are worth checking into a bit are - PLT CECO I don't quite get FST, but thought I'd toss it out there On 30 Jan 01, at 21:28, esetser wrote: > I'm looking through my watch list tonight and came upon an interesting > chart. FII. I looks to me to be a really rough base that has smoothed out > nicely as it forms a handle. Comments? > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:28:49 -0500 From: "Ann Hollingworth" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF What is the deal with base-on-base? And what is the difference between cup and base? Thanks. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of esetser Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:14 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF Ann, that's exactly how I read it also. The only issue here is the "high handle" volume is still very high, so not optimum, and the base is (again, sorry) too short. At 10:35 PM 1/30/01 -0500, you wrote: >Tom, you said: > >On 12/8/00, this stock traded to a new high of 25.44 and closed >there, on light volume. On 12/11 it traded to another new high of >27.375 and closed at 26.75 on volume heavier than average. Since >then (to 12/21) it slid down. I consider the only nearby base to >be from 12/26 to 1/12/01 when it began to break the pattern on >its second consecutive day of above average volume. Keep in mind >that I use DGO charts virtually exclusively. Other charting >services can present a different image. > >I am looking at the DGO chart from investors.com. I don't understand why the >base doesn't go from 12/11 (left side of cup) to 1/16 (right side of cup) >with a little handle after that. >Thank you everyone for your patience. > > > >- > > > - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:33:14 -0500 From: "Ann Hollingworth" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] watching Thanks, eseeter. I at least feel better about my reading comprehension (WON's books and IBD)! When I think I see a stock that fulfills the CANSLIM ideas, I get very impatient (Read: greedy?) and can't seem to stop myself from buying! I'm afraid that I'll miss out and not catch another one! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of esetser Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:09 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] watching Tom, it seems to me you have crept away from CANSLIM, or at least WON's methods, in some of this discusssion. (see notes below) At 09:56 PM 1/30/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Ann, > >... >Many stocks will break out of a basing pattern, only to later >retreat right back into that base. If the breakout didn't go high >enough to give you a profit saving exit (normally at least 15% >over your entry, assuming the entry was correct) then you don't >want to be stopped out in the base. You only want a stop driven >exit to protect you from even greater loss of capital. Neither a >failed breakout, nor a stock again trading in an established >base, is threatening that. But if it falls below the bottom of >the base, then the next lower level of support is likely going to >be well over your 8% stop point. Thus, the ideal is to enter the >stock correctly from some kind of base formation, with an entry >point price such that an 8% stop would be just under the bottom >of the same base. This way, your stop takes you out before a >retreat becomes the edge of the cliff. You lose some money, but >can still play the game another day. In your case, it appears you >may have bought too late and too high, and must decide between >taking greater risks of a more serious loss, or just cashing in >and possibly missing a further advance. My understanding of WON and the 8% rule has never had anything to do with the depth of the base below the pivot. The 7-8% sell rule is there for capital preservation only. My take on it is the following: If you buy within 5% of the pivot, you have support at the pivot. The 8% rule gives you at least 3% margin below the pivot. I think WON uses the pivot as support rather than looking for some other base below that level. >And yes, the ideal pivot for a true handle of a cup is where the >slight droop of the handle begins to reverse. From today's IBD Investor's Corner, "The exact buy point, also know as the pivot point, is usually 1/8 of a point above the highest level of the handle." I'm sure this is consistent in everything WON has written (HTMMIS, 25 lessons, etc.). I don't think I've ever seen an mention of a pivot point at the "droop". >Often, you may have >several days to plunge in, before the price creeps over the right >side of the cup. Sometimes, the b/o is massive and either you >bought while it's handle was still basing, or you missed it. On >the rare and few quality c&h formations I find, I tend to buy >when I see volume really, really drying up (less than, often way >less than) half of average. At that point, the idea is that we >have run out of sellers, and it only takes minor buying to start >the momentum of a breakout. > It looks to me like you are trying to "cheat" CANSLIM a little by getting in earlier. I have a good friend that also tries this, and does well at times. These entries would give you a little more profit potential, and a little more room on the downside before hitting the 8% point. However, I've seen a lot of stocks build the patterns where the handle ends up being a resumption of a downtrend. This also explains why your buy points seem to be consistently lower than those I come up with. I always use the handle high, double bottom high, or previous closing high to set my pivots. Generally, I end up buying anywhere from 2 - 5 % higher after the stock moves. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I thought it was important to point out a few differences in interpretation to give Ann a different opinion. And Ann, I looked through you list also. Overall I found a couple of good candidates, but quite a few stocks with 3 or 4 week bases. WON recommends strongly a 7-8 week base minimum and I lost quite a bit of money jumping in some short bases last spring. I reccomend you keep looking until you find at least 7 week bases. (And I'm sure others will chime in with differences on this one!!) >Hope this helps somehow, > >Tom Worley >stkguru@netside.net >ICQ # 5568838 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Ann Hollingworth >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 5:50 PM - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:44:43 -0500 From: "Charles Layne" Subject: [CANSLIM] THE "I" IN CANSLIM One of the parts of CANSLIM that has given me fits is the "I" - institutional sponsorship. How in the world is a little guy supposed to discover what funds hold a particular stock? Over the years, IBD has continued to improve the data subscribers can use to apply CANSLIM, and "I" insights have improved as well. I have been noting a strange phenomenon lately, though. As I look through the "Follow the Leaders" section, I discover that many stocks with institutional sponsorship have very non-CANSLIM numbers. For example, in the 1/30 edition, those with "A+, A, A- Funds in Stock" numbers over 10 have the following EPS, RS, AMR, and A/D figures: ERTS 56-43-C-D SMTF 13-49-E-A IATV 20-7-D-B Although this is just one day, I have observed this frequently. Any other resources to investigate the elusive "I"? Charles Layne - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:45:51 -0500 From: "Charles Layne" Subject: [CANSLIM] ENTRY POINT Today's (1/30) Investor's Corner is about the right time to buy. Those in CANSLIM are familiar with watching for the handle to finish forming and then wait for the B/O to push into new high territory. As I look at the charts and recall a few messages alluding to pivot points on this forum, I am beginning to wonder if other options are possible. Mind you, I have nothing empirical, just thoughts. As we watch the handle forming, and if convinced that it is a stock that we would be ready to buy on a B/O, is there an earlier entry point? I am thinking after the downside portion of the handle has formed and has moved toward the upside. How about in that area? If it breaks out on heavy volume, I am already in. If it breaks out on low volume and becomes a failed B/O, I am in a position to sell quickly, maybe even for a slight profit. If it just moves sideways and never breaks out, I can sell at break even or a little above or below entry price. If it moves down from my entry point, I still have my CANSLIM 8% (or whatever number) as protection - no worse than a loss at the B/O entry point. Any feedback? Charles Layne - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:57:27 -0500 From: "Charles Layne" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Worley" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:59 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF > Hi Ann, > > A base and a cup (or cup w/handle) are entirely different chart > patterns. And the only "DGO chart" is that which you get from > DGO, I haven't looked at investors.com, but any chart there is an > investors.com chart, not DGO. You get what you pay for, DGO isn't > cheap, but it is what I am used to. Tom, Actually, she could be right. The IBD website has been going through a beta testing period which includes access to the DGO chart for a selected stock. After the testing period (date not disclosed), there will be a fee for the DGO chart, but not the IBD chart for IBD subscribers. Charles Layne - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:51:06 -0500 From: "Charles Layne" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] watching - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Worley" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] watching > Actually, Charles, I suspect a cut of more than 50 bp will panic > the markets into thinking we are already into recession, and Mr. > G is trying to dig his way out before he has to admit he put us > there (I personally don't think we are in recession or threatened > with it). But the media does so like to put a spin on everything, I thought of this very thing later after sending the message. More market perversity! :) Charles Layne - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:02:53 -0500 From: "Charles Layne" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] IBD Composite Rating - ----- Original Message ----- From: "esetser" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 12:03 AM Subject: [CANSLIM] IBD Composite Rating > IBD is debuting a new "composite rating" in the paper on Wed. This rating > is a combination of EPS, RPS, IGP Rank, SMR, and Acc/Dist along with a > weighting for how far the stock is off its high. This looks to be pretty > interesting, but it doesn't show up anywhere on the website. I wonder if > this is a daily or weekly feature? I guess we will see over the next few > days. I believe that it does show up on the website. The IBD website has been undergoing a beta testing period. Those who have signed up with a user name and password have access to about four tools. One of the tools will return a lot of IBD numbers for the selected stock. One of the numbers is a composite "buy rating," which I believe is being referenced above. As I understand it, this screen will still be no additional cost to IBD subscribers following the testing period. Two of the other tools are an IBD chart and a DGO chart for the selected stock. I can't recall the other tool; actually, I have used only the screen which includes that composite number. Charles Layne - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:17:03 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] FII On Plantronics (PLT), I would agree Patrick. I have used their headsets, and consider them the best in the business, altho I never used their wireless headsets, but would like to. On CECO, the spike on Tuesday looks to me to fully value this stock for the short term, with a trailing PE of 44 and "only" 22% earnings growth projected for 2001. FST has possibilities as a watch candidate. Regards, Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net ICQ # 5568838 - ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Wahl To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 1:14 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] FII Chart does look good, but the revenue growth is pretty unexciting, single digit last quarter,so I would think it would have a limited upside. Couple others I saw tonight that are worth checking into a bit are - PLT CECO I don't quite get FST, but thought I'd toss it out there On 30 Jan 01, at 21:28, esetser wrote: > I'm looking through my watch list tonight and came upon an interesting > chart. FII. I looks to me to be a really rough base that has smoothed out > nicely as it forms a handle. Comments? > > - > - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:20:45 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] watching Ann, one of the good things about the securities business is that even in a bear market there is always another train waiting to leave the station. Impatience can be costly. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net ICQ # 5568838 - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ann Hollingworth To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:33 AM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] watching Thanks, eseeter. I at least feel better about my reading comprehension (WON's books and IBD)! When I think I see a stock that fulfills the CANSLIM ideas, I get very impatient (Read: greedy?) and can't seem to stop myself from buying! I'm afraid that I'll miss out and not catch another one! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of esetser Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:09 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] watching Tom, it seems to me you have crept away from CANSLIM, or at least WON's methods, in some of this discusssion. (see notes below) At 09:56 PM 1/30/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Ann, > >... >Many stocks will break out of a basing pattern, only to later >retreat right back into that base. If the breakout didn't go high >enough to give you a profit saving exit (normally at least 15% >over your entry, assuming the entry was correct) then you don't >want to be stopped out in the base. You only want a stop driven >exit to protect you from even greater loss of capital. Neither a >failed breakout, nor a stock again trading in an established >base, is threatening that. But if it falls below the bottom of >the base, then the next lower level of support is likely going to >be well over your 8% stop point. Thus, the ideal is to enter the >stock correctly from some kind of base formation, with an entry >point price such that an 8% stop would be just under the bottom >of the same base. This way, your stop takes you out before a >retreat becomes the edge of the cliff. You lose some money, but >can still play the game another day. In your case, it appears you >may have bought too late and too high, and must decide between >taking greater risks of a more serious loss, or just cashing in >and possibly missing a further advance. My understanding of WON and the 8% rule has never had anything to do with the depth of the base below the pivot. The 7-8% sell rule is there for capital preservation only. My take on it is the following: If you buy within 5% of the pivot, you have support at the pivot. The 8% rule gives you at least 3% margin below the pivot. I think WON uses the pivot as support rather than looking for some other base below that level. >And yes, the ideal pivot for a true handle of a cup is where the >slight droop of the handle begins to reverse. >From today's IBD Investor's Corner, "The exact buy point, also know as the pivot point, is usually 1/8 of a point above the highest level of the handle." I'm sure this is consistent in everything WON has written (HTMMIS, 25 lessons, etc.). I don't think I've ever seen an mention of a pivot point at the "droop". >Often, you may have >several days to plunge in, before the price creeps over the right >side of the cup. Sometimes, the b/o is massive and either you >bought while it's handle was still basing, or you missed it. On >the rare and few quality c&h formations I find, I tend to buy >when I see volume really, really drying up (less than, often way >less than) half of average. At that point, the idea is that we >have run out of sellers, and it only takes minor buying to start >the momentum of a breakout. > It looks to me like you are trying to "cheat" CANSLIM a little by getting in earlier. I have a good friend that also tries this, and does well at times. These entries would give you a little more profit potential, and a little more room on the downside before hitting the 8% point. However, I've seen a lot of stocks build the patterns where the handle ends up being a resumption of a downtrend. This also explains why your buy points seem to be consistently lower than those I come up with. I always use the handle high, double bottom high, or previous closing high to set my pivots. Generally, I end up buying anywhere from 2 - 5 % higher after the stock moves. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I thought it was important to point out a few differences in interpretation to give Ann a different opinion. And Ann, I looked through you list also. Overall I found a couple of good candidates, but quite a few stocks with 3 or 4 week bases. WON recommends strongly a 7-8 week base minimum and I lost quite a bit of money jumping in some short bases last spring. I reccomend you keep looking until you find at least 7 week bases. (And I'm sure others will chime in with differences on this one!!) >Hope this helps somehow, > >Tom Worley >stkguru@netside.net >ICQ # 5568838 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Ann Hollingworth >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 5:50 PM - - - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:24:53 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] THE "I" IN CANSLIM Hi Charles, In using DGO, I am more concerned with how much funds own rather than which funds own it. I may get to the latter issue eventually, but my primary interest is in whether funds are liable to step in to buy big time, or are more likely to sell big time if bad things happen. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net ICQ # 5568838 - ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Layne To: CANSLIM Forum Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:44 AM Subject: [CANSLIM] THE "I" IN CANSLIM One of the parts of CANSLIM that has given me fits is the "I" - institutional sponsorship. How in the world is a little guy supposed to discover what funds hold a particular stock? Over the years, IBD has continued to improve the data subscribers can use to apply CANSLIM, and "I" insights have improved as well. I have been noting a strange phenomenon lately, though. As I look through the "Follow the Leaders" section, I discover that many stocks with institutional sponsorship have very non-CANSLIM numbers. For example, in the 1/30 edition, those with "A+, A, A- Funds in Stock" numbers over 10 have the following EPS, RS, AMR, and A/D figures: ERTS 56-43-C-D SMTF 13-49-E-A IATV 20-7-D-B Although this is just one day, I have observed this frequently. Any other resources to investigate the elusive "I"? Charles Layne - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:27:19 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF you are right, Charles, I forgot (overlooked) that investors.com is the alias for IBD. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net ICQ # 5568838 - ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Layne To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Worley" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:59 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF > Hi Ann, > > A base and a cup (or cup w/handle) are entirely different chart > patterns. And the only "DGO chart" is that which you get from > DGO, I haven't looked at investors.com, but any chart there is an > investors.com chart, not DGO. You get what you pay for, DGO isn't > cheap, but it is what I am used to. Tom, Actually, she could be right. The IBD website has been going through a beta testing period which includes access to the DGO chart for a selected stock. After the testing period (date not disclosed), there will be a fee for the DGO chart, but not the IBD chart for IBD subscribers. Charles Layne - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:25:25 -0500 From: "Charles Layne" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] watching - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Hollingworth" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:33 AM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] watching > Thanks, eseeter. I at least feel better about my reading comprehension > (WON's books and IBD)! > > When I think I see a stock that fulfills the CANSLIM ideas, I get very > impatient (Read: greedy?) and can't seem to stop myself from buying! I'm > afraid that I'll miss out and not catch another one! I know the feeling, because I have done the same thing for both CS and non-CS stocks. Probably most everyone has. However, patience does have some virtues. In CS, for instance, patience is part of the game that contributes to raising the chances (chances, not guarantees) for success. Since everything concerning the market is future directed, we will never know if patience pays off until it is too late. Hindsight is 20/20, but it is also too late - except to improve our education for future situations. I am learning more and more that right now patience is very much a virtue because there is no market trend, and remember "the trend is your friend." A couple of years ago, the trend was up, and throwing darts at the paper to pick a stock had a chance of winning (ie, dot com stocks that kept going furiously higher even though no profits were near the horizon). Earlier this year, the trend was down (don't we know that!) and short sales all over the place could be profitable. Now, however, everything is choppy with no clear direction. Do not forget, part of CS includes the market as a whole - bull, bear, or something in between. Also, do not forget that WON says do not buy in a bear market. (I know, I know; we don't do that ourselves anyway. Hey, I'm holding one of my best CS choices right now myself - MDC). My point is, though, that patience is probably more important now than before. Even though we fear missing "great opportunities," do not forget that there are hundreds of potentials out there. Scan IBD for a list of EPS>90 and SMR=A and you will still have a list of more stocks than most of us can manage to track. Out of those, there will be many that are shaping up favorable chart patterns. Hey, fun (& a few profits) is the name of the game. Charles Layne - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 06:38:39 -0700 From: jeff.salisbury@xmission.com Subject: [none] (EST) From: "Ann Hollingworth" To: Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:23:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <02ba01c08b42$f3672720$0f02000a@txw> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Tom, OH!! I thought a cup was a kind of base. Is this WON? I don't understand the pivot point being at the bottom of the base, but maybe that's because I thought it was a cup. Re DGO chart, I have access (temporarily, anyway) to Daily Graphs Online charts (maybe basic ones-one per stock, not interactive) through the IBD website because I subscribe to IBD. Thanks, Ann - -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Tom Worley Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:59 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF Hi Ann, A base and a cup (or cup w/handle) are entirely different chart patterns. And the only "DGO chart" is that which you get from DGO, I haven't looked at investors.com, but any chart there is an investors.com chart, not DGO. You get what you pay for, DGO isn't cheap, but it is what I am used to. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net ICQ # 5568838 - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ann Hollingworth To: Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:35 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] RE: SPF Tom, you said: On 12/8/00, this stock traded to a new high of 25.44 and closed there, on light volume. On 12/11 it traded to another new high of 27.375 and closed at 26.75 on volume heavier than average. Since then (to 12/21) it slid down. I consider the only nearby base to be from 12/26 to 1/12/01 when it began to break the pattern on its second consecutive day of above average volume. Keep in mind that I use DGO charts virtually exclusively. Other charting services can present a different image. I am looking at the DGO chart from investors.com. I don't understand why the base doesn't go from 12/11 (left side of cup) to 1/16 (right side of cup) with a little handle after that. Thank you everyone for your patience. - - - - - - ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jan 2001 06:37:55 -0800 From: "Tim Fisher" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] FII I was in and out if FII a few months ago. It dropped off my HGS list because the growth, as Patrick said, decelerated. It must be below EPS 70 since the HGS scans supposedly pick out all stocks with EPS>70 and RS and GRS>60. At 09:28 PM 1/30/2001 -0700, you wrote: >I'm looking through my watch list tonight and came upon an interesting >chart. FII. I looks to me to be a really rough base that has smoothed out >nicely as it forms a handle. Comments? > >- Tim Fisher, 1995 President, Pacific Fishery Biologists Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site PFB Information mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jan 2001 06:43:22 -0800 From: "Tim Fisher" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] THE "I" IN CANSLIM FWIW, Yahoo reports (old, stale) institutional data which is often in disagreement with IBD's. I would consider Yahoo's data to be a minimum (i.e. if they say 1% instit. then it's more likely 5% or 10%). At 07:44 AM 1/31/2001 -0500, you wrote: >One of the parts of CANSLIM that has given me fits is the "I" - >institutional sponsorship. How in the world is a little guy supposed to >discover what funds hold a particular stock? > >Over the years, IBD has continued to improve the data subscribers can use to >apply CANSLIM, and "I" insights have improved as well. I have been noting a >strange phenomenon lately, though. As I look through the "Follow the >Leaders" section, I discover that many stocks with institutional sponsorship >have very non-CANSLIM numbers. For example, in the 1/30 edition, those with >"A+, A, A- Funds in Stock" numbers over 10 have the following EPS, RS, AMR, >and A/D figures: > >ERTS 56-43-C-D >SMTF 13-49-E-A >IATV 20-7-D-B > >Although this is just one day, I have observed this frequently. Any other >resources to investigate the elusive "I"? > > >Charles Layne > > > >- Tim Fisher, 1995 President, Pacific Fishery Biologists Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site PFB Information mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:05:28 -0700 From: esetser Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] watching At 07:33 AM 1/31/01 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks, eseeter. I at least feel better about my reading comprehension >(WON's books and IBD)! > >When I think I see a stock that fulfills the CANSLIM ideas, I get very >impatient (Read: greedy?) and can't seem to stop myself from buying! I'm >afraid that I'll miss out and not catch another one! > Oh yes. Impatient is certainly something I struggle with also. During the heady days of the tech rally, we learned "he who hesitates is lost" over and over. If you missed the first 15 minutes of the move, the stock was extended and often never came back. There were exceptions of course, and I managed to get into QLGC on a slight correction after the breakout. I mention this one because it's my best CANSLIM stock purchase returning almost 150% even though I got out late. In this market, I think patience on the buy side is paying large dividends. We have had several follow-through days that have not succeeded, and those who were quick to jump in probably paid for their impatience. I did move into an almost fully invested position in this last rally, but 3 of my positions came back down to send me out. Interesting that 2 of the 3 have moved nicely higher since those 1 day dips. I remain about 50% invested as my other positions have hung in there well with mostly small gains. I'm trying to feel my best way back in with today's announcement hanging over my decision, along with much of the market too. It should be an interesting afternoon. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:12:51 -0700 From: esetser Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] THE "I" IN CANSLIM There are two specific rankings in the IBD which give you views on I. First is the A/D ranking. This ranking shows how the big money is influencing stock price, and is supposed to be a good indicator of Institutional movements. This one is an overall indicator with no regard for the "quality" of the institution buying or selling. The other indicator in the IBD is the Sponsorship rank. Keep those Tuesday papers handy, because this one only appears once a week on Tuesday. This indicator is supposed to be a combination of Institutional movement into or out of the stock AND emphasizes the movements of "Quality Institutions". I add this one to my overall rank when I generate my leader's list. It seems like this should be an important tool for IBD users, but I see very little discussion of this particular indicator. It is only available in the IBD once per week, is not available on the website, and is not included in DGO (AFAIK). However, I also wanted more info on "I" without extensive research into websites where the data was who knows how old, so I started added this ranking to my equation. At 07:44 AM 1/31/01 -0500, you wrote: >One of the parts of CANSLIM that has given me fits is the "I" - >institutional sponsorship. How in the world is a little guy supposed to >discover what funds hold a particular stock? > >Over the years, IBD has continued to improve the data subscribers can use to >apply CANSLIM, and "I" insights have improved as well. I have been noting a >strange phenomenon lately, though. As I look through the "Follow the >Leaders" section, I discover that many stocks with institutional sponsorship >have very non-CANSLIM numbers. For example, in the 1/30 edition, those with >"A+, A, A- Funds in Stock" numbers over 10 have the following EPS, RS, AMR, >and A/D figures: > >ERTS 56-43-C-D >SMTF 13-49-E-A >IATV 20-7-D-B > >Although this is just one day, I have observed this frequently. Any other >resources to investigate the elusive "I"? > > >Charles Layne > > > >- > > > - - ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #1106 ****************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.