From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #1611 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Wednesday, August 15 2001 Volume 02 : Number 1611 In this issue: Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Depth in todays IC was:DSL Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Depth in todays IC was:DSL [CANSLIM] DSL cup - Real Most Active [CANSLIM] Jans Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Depth in todays IC was:DSL Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Depth in todays IC was:DSL Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Depth in todays IC was:DSL Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Length Re: [CANSLIM] cprt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:36:32 +0200 From: "Makara, Tamas" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Depth in todays IC was:DSL I don't view that as a CANSLIM type cup and handle. The chart formation has the shape of a cup, but it's not what a CANSLIM cup and handle is: a correction recovery pattern within an uptrend. In 1998 and the bigger part of 1999 NYCB built a huge to following a multiyear uptrend. Then it broke down and went into a downtrend and lost more than half of it's value. The stock spent 2000 building a bottom between 11.50 and 14.45. When it broke out of this bottom formation (i.e. base) on 7/20/2000, a new uptrend began. This uptrend has been intact ever since. After a more than 30% rise the stock formed it's first O'Neil type base between 9/29/2000 and 11/28/2000. The second base was a seven week double bottom between 2/13/2001 and 3/29/2001. I don't know what IBD wrote, but in my opinion no canslimer should treat that almost two year long cup shaped formation as a valid cup and handle. Tamas Drewcorp wrote: > I understand what you are saying Tamas, and thanks... I have not thought of > it in this way. > > I find it interesting, though, that in today's Investors Corner, they give > an example of NYCB which had a cup depth of 52% starting in a strong market > and ending in a weak one. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Makara, Tamas" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:37 PM > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > This cup is 37% deep. I think there are two reasons why you should limit > the > > depth of what could be a proper cup&handle. > > > > One is that if the cup is too deep then the uptrend and the psychology of > the > > long term holders is clearly broken. You don't want a stock that has > fallen 80% > > and is now coming back... In this regard I think DSL is just OK, it's > uptrend is > > intact. (It's 200 DMA has never rolled over and the price always bounced > back > > from it.) > > > > The other reason why you don't want too deep cups is the following: if a > cup is > > 50% deep, then at the top of the cup it has already advanced 100% from > bottom of > > the cup: then it is extended and likely there will be many profit takers. > For a > > 37% deep cup it's approximately 58%, while in the case of a proper 25% > deep cup > > the stock only needs to rally 33% to make a new high. So my problem is > that DSL > > was quite extended when it broke out of a short handle on 7/30 (I suppose > you > > bought this breakout). Had there been a proper handle, say 3 weeks, then > it > > would not have been extended, and I wouldn't mention the depth of the cup. > > > > Of course, I have seen many stocks break out from bases lik this a make > big > > gains -- in good markets. In difficult markets this small things do > matter, I > > think. Just my way of thinking, others may see it otherwise. > > > > Tamas > > > > Ann Hollingworth wrote: > > > > > I understand about the handle, yes, but what makes the cup too deep? WON > > > says max 20-30% or 40-50% in a bear market. The intraday high was 61.94, > and > > > so the intraday low could be 43.36 (or 30.97 in bear). The intraday low > was > > > 38.82. > > > Thanks to everyone for the feedback. > > > Ann > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Makara, Tamas" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:35 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > Are you sure this chart was so sood? Sure it was a strong stock, but > the > > > cup was > > > > to deep, at least for my taste, and there was no two week handle. So > it > > > wasn't a > > > > perfect/textbook CANSLI chart. In a strong market these nuances may > not > > > matter, > > > > but... > > > > > > > > Tamas > > > > > > > > > > > > Ann Hollingworth wrote: > > > > > > > > > Andy, > > > > > I did, too (got in when everyone said not to)! As someone said > recently, > > > > > when I start looking at charts and see good ones, I can't help > myself! > > > > > Maybe DSL is forming a handle, but even if it is, it shouldn't have > this > > > > > huge volume. > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad you're only down 2%. Maybe I'll do the same. > > > > > Ann > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Drewcorp" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:35 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > > > > > I'm down about 2% and contemplating the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > The volume is at 371,800 shares which may cause it to be just > slightly > > > > > below > > > > > > the breakout volume of 444,100 by the end of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > I just put a sell in at market. > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can tell, I ignored everybody who said stay out of the > > > market!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Ann Hollingworth" > > > > > > To: "CANSLIM Listserv" > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:07 PM > > > > > > Subject: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts on what's happening to DSL? I'm down 3%, but > thinking > > > of > > > > > > > bailing out because of high volume on downside. > > > > > > > Ann > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:53:11 +0200 From: "Makara, Tamas" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Depth in todays IC was:DSL sorry for the typo, this sentence should read: In 1998 and the bigger part of 1999 NYCB built a huge top following a multiyear uptrend. Makara, Tamas wrote: > I don't view that as a CANSLIM type cup and handle. The chart formation has the > shape of a cup, but it's not what a CANSLIM cup and handle is: a correction > recovery pattern within an uptrend. > > In 1998 and the bigger part of 1999 NYCB built a huge to following a multiyear > uptrend. Then it broke down and went into a downtrend and lost more than half of > it's value. The stock spent 2000 building a bottom between 11.50 and 14.45. When > it broke out of this bottom formation (i.e. base) on 7/20/2000, a new uptrend > began. This uptrend has been intact ever since. After a more than 30% rise the > stock formed it's first O'Neil type base between 9/29/2000 and 11/28/2000. The > second base was a seven week double bottom between 2/13/2001 and 3/29/2001. > > I don't know what IBD wrote, but in my opinion no canslimer should treat that > almost two year long cup shaped formation as a valid cup and handle. > > Tamas > > Drewcorp wrote: > > > I understand what you are saying Tamas, and thanks... I have not thought of > > it in this way. > > > > I find it interesting, though, that in today's Investors Corner, they give > > an example of NYCB which had a cup depth of 52% starting in a strong market > > and ending in a weak one. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Makara, Tamas" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:37 PM > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > This cup is 37% deep. I think there are two reasons why you should limit > > the > > > depth of what could be a proper cup&handle. > > > > > > One is that if the cup is too deep then the uptrend and the psychology of > > the > > > long term holders is clearly broken. You don't want a stock that has > > fallen 80% > > > and is now coming back... In this regard I think DSL is just OK, it's > > uptrend is > > > intact. (It's 200 DMA has never rolled over and the price always bounced > > back > > > from it.) > > > > > > The other reason why you don't want too deep cups is the following: if a > > cup is > > > 50% deep, then at the top of the cup it has already advanced 100% from > > bottom of > > > the cup: then it is extended and likely there will be many profit takers. > > For a > > > 37% deep cup it's approximately 58%, while in the case of a proper 25% > > deep cup > > > the stock only needs to rally 33% to make a new high. So my problem is > > that DSL > > > was quite extended when it broke out of a short handle on 7/30 (I suppose > > you > > > bought this breakout). Had there been a proper handle, say 3 weeks, then > > it > > > would not have been extended, and I wouldn't mention the depth of the cup. > > > > > > Of course, I have seen many stocks break out from bases lik this a make > > big > > > gains -- in good markets. In difficult markets this small things do > > matter, I > > > think. Just my way of thinking, others may see it otherwise. > > > > > > Tamas > > > > > > Ann Hollingworth wrote: > > > > > > > I understand about the handle, yes, but what makes the cup too deep? WON > > > > says max 20-30% or 40-50% in a bear market. The intraday high was 61.94, > > and > > > > so the intraday low could be 43.36 (or 30.97 in bear). The intraday low > > was > > > > 38.82. > > > > Thanks to everyone for the feedback. > > > > Ann > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Makara, Tamas" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:35 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > > > Are you sure this chart was so sood? Sure it was a strong stock, but > > the > > > > cup was > > > > > to deep, at least for my taste, and there was no two week handle. So > > it > > > > wasn't a > > > > > perfect/textbook CANSLI chart. In a strong market these nuances may > > not > > > > matter, > > > > > but... > > > > > > > > > > Tamas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ann Hollingworth wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Andy, > > > > > > I did, too (got in when everyone said not to)! As someone said > > recently, > > > > > > when I start looking at charts and see good ones, I can't help > > myself! > > > > > > Maybe DSL is forming a handle, but even if it is, it shouldn't have > > this > > > > > > huge volume. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad you're only down 2%. Maybe I'll do the same. > > > > > > Ann > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Drewcorp" > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:35 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm down about 2% and contemplating the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The volume is at 371,800 shares which may cause it to be just > > slightly > > > > > > below > > > > > > > the breakout volume of 444,100 by the end of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just put a sell in at market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can tell, I ignored everybody who said stay out of the > > > > market!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Ann Hollingworth" > > > > > > > To: "CANSLIM Listserv" > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:07 PM > > > > > > > Subject: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts on what's happening to DSL? I'm down 3%, but > > thinking > > > > of > > > > > > > > bailing out because of high volume on downside. > > > > > > > > Ann > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:35:29 -0400 From: "Ann Hollingworth" Subject: [CANSLIM] DSL cup - Real Most Active The NYSE Real Most Active Jump To The Nasdaq Real Most Active By Christina Wise Investor's Business Daily Downey Financial (DSL) slid 2.37 to 56.15 on three times typical trade. The savings and loan is near the top of a 33-week base. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:49:04 -0500 From: Ernie Hill Subject: [CANSLIM] Jans I tried to send you a message off-line but it was returned undelivered. Could you send me a message off-line and let me know what you think the problem might be. Thanks, E - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:53:58 -0400 From: "Drewcorp" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Depth in todays IC was:DSL So you are stating that this article, which clearly states that the cup formed from April 1999 to Sept. 29, 2000 with a handle to Nov. 29, 2000, is NOT a good example of a cup w/ handle. I'm dumbfounded. Why would David Saito-Chung, an IBD staff writer, reference poor examples to demonstrate proper buy points? There must be good charts he could have used. If a canslimmer should not treat it as a valid form, why would DSC? Have you noticed staff writers referencing poor charts in the past? Andy Johnson raj@drewcorp.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Makara, Tamas" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Depth in todays IC was:DSL > sorry for the typo, this sentence should read: In 1998 and the bigger part of 1999 > NYCB built a huge top following a multiyear uptrend. > > Makara, Tamas wrote: > > > I don't view that as a CANSLIM type cup and handle. The chart formation has the > > shape of a cup, but it's not what a CANSLIM cup and handle is: a correction > > recovery pattern within an uptrend. > > > > In 1998 and the bigger part of 1999 NYCB built a huge to following a multiyear > > uptrend. Then it broke down and went into a downtrend and lost more than half of > > it's value. The stock spent 2000 building a bottom between 11.50 and 14.45. When > > it broke out of this bottom formation (i.e. base) on 7/20/2000, a new uptrend > > began. This uptrend has been intact ever since. After a more than 30% rise the > > stock formed it's first O'Neil type base between 9/29/2000 and 11/28/2000. The > > second base was a seven week double bottom between 2/13/2001 and 3/29/2001. > > > > I don't know what IBD wrote, but in my opinion no canslimer should treat that > > almost two year long cup shaped formation as a valid cup and handle. > > > > Tamas > > > > Drewcorp wrote: > > > > > I understand what you are saying Tamas, and thanks... I have not thought of > > > it in this way. > > > > > > I find it interesting, though, that in today's Investors Corner, they give > > > an example of NYCB which had a cup depth of 52% starting in a strong market > > > and ending in a weak one. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Makara, Tamas" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:37 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > This cup is 37% deep. I think there are two reasons why you should limit > > > the > > > > depth of what could be a proper cup&handle. > > > > > > > > One is that if the cup is too deep then the uptrend and the psychology of > > > the > > > > long term holders is clearly broken. You don't want a stock that has > > > fallen 80% > > > > and is now coming back... In this regard I think DSL is just OK, it's > > > uptrend is > > > > intact. (It's 200 DMA has never rolled over and the price always bounced > > > back > > > > from it.) > > > > > > > > The other reason why you don't want too deep cups is the following: if a > > > cup is > > > > 50% deep, then at the top of the cup it has already advanced 100% from > > > bottom of > > > > the cup: then it is extended and likely there will be many profit takers. > > > For a > > > > 37% deep cup it's approximately 58%, while in the case of a proper 25% > > > deep cup > > > > the stock only needs to rally 33% to make a new high. So my problem is > > > that DSL > > > > was quite extended when it broke out of a short handle on 7/30 (I suppose > > > you > > > > bought this breakout). Had there been a proper handle, say 3 weeks, then > > > it > > > > would not have been extended, and I wouldn't mention the depth of the cup. > > > > > > > > Of course, I have seen many stocks break out from bases lik this a make > > > big > > > > gains -- in good markets. In difficult markets this small things do > > > matter, I > > > > think. Just my way of thinking, others may see it otherwise. > > > > > > > > Tamas > > > > > > > > Ann Hollingworth wrote: > > > > > > > > > I understand about the handle, yes, but what makes the cup too deep? WON > > > > > says max 20-30% or 40-50% in a bear market. The intraday high was 61.94, > > > and > > > > > so the intraday low could be 43.36 (or 30.97 in bear). The intraday low > > > was > > > > > 38.82. > > > > > Thanks to everyone for the feedback. > > > > > Ann > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Makara, Tamas" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:35 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > > > > > Are you sure this chart was so sood? Sure it was a strong stock, but > > > the > > > > > cup was > > > > > > to deep, at least for my taste, and there was no two week handle. So > > > it > > > > > wasn't a > > > > > > perfect/textbook CANSLI chart. In a strong market these nuances may > > > not > > > > > matter, > > > > > > but... > > > > > > > > > > > > Tamas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ann Hollingworth wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy, > > > > > > > I did, too (got in when everyone said not to)! As someone said > > > recently, > > > > > > > when I start looking at charts and see good ones, I can't help > > > myself! > > > > > > > Maybe DSL is forming a handle, but even if it is, it shouldn't have > > > this > > > > > > > huge volume. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad you're only down 2%. Maybe I'll do the same. > > > > > > > Ann > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Drewcorp" > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:35 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm down about 2% and contemplating the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The volume is at 371,800 shares which may cause it to be just > > > slightly > > > > > > > below > > > > > > > > the breakout volume of 444,100 by the end of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just put a sell in at market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can tell, I ignored everybody who said stay out of the > > > > > market!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Ann Hollingworth" > > > > > > > > To: "CANSLIM Listserv" > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:07 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts on what's happening to DSL? I'm down 3%, but > > > thinking > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > bailing out because of high volume on downside. > > > > > > > > > Ann > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > - > > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:37:43 +0200 From: "Makara, Tamas" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Depth in todays IC was:DSL Although I have not read the article, it seems to me that 11/29/200 was a proper buy point according to the article and it was a proper buy point according to my analysis. Probably that's what counts. The IBD writer sees a two month handle, I see a two month base. Whatever term you use, you should select good risk/reward entry points in good stocks. Anyway, I'm not an authority. If you find something in my reasoning that can help you spot the correct setups than use it, if not, just forget it. good trading to you, Tamas Drewcorp wrote: > So you are stating that this article, which clearly states that the cup > formed from April 1999 to Sept. 29, 2000 with a handle to Nov. 29, 2000, is > NOT a good example of a cup w/ handle. > > I'm dumbfounded. > > Why would David Saito-Chung, an IBD staff writer, reference poor examples to > demonstrate proper buy points? There must be good charts he could have > used. > > If a canslimmer should not treat it as a valid form, why would DSC? Have > you noticed staff writers referencing poor charts in the past? > > Andy Johnson > raj@drewcorp.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Makara, Tamas" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:53 PM > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Depth in todays IC was:DSL > > > sorry for the typo, this sentence should read: In 1998 and the bigger part > of 1999 > > NYCB built a huge top following a multiyear uptrend. > > > > Makara, Tamas wrote: > > > > > I don't view that as a CANSLIM type cup and handle. The chart formation > has the > > > shape of a cup, but it's not what a CANSLIM cup and handle is: a > correction > > > recovery pattern within an uptrend. > > > > > > In 1998 and the bigger part of 1999 NYCB built a huge to following a > multiyear > > > uptrend. Then it broke down and went into a downtrend and lost more than > half of > > > it's value. The stock spent 2000 building a bottom between 11.50 and > 14.45. When > > > it broke out of this bottom formation (i.e. base) on 7/20/2000, a new > uptrend > > > began. This uptrend has been intact ever since. After a more than 30% > rise the > > > stock formed it's first O'Neil type base between 9/29/2000 and > 11/28/2000. The > > > second base was a seven week double bottom between 2/13/2001 and > 3/29/2001. > > > > > > I don't know what IBD wrote, but in my opinion no canslimer should treat > that > > > almost two year long cup shaped formation as a valid cup and handle. > > > > > > Tamas > > > > > > Drewcorp wrote: > > > > > > > I understand what you are saying Tamas, and thanks... I have not > thought of > > > > it in this way. > > > > > > > > I find it interesting, though, that in today's Investors Corner, they > give > > > > an example of NYCB which had a cup depth of 52% starting in a strong > market > > > > and ending in a weak one. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Makara, Tamas" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:37 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > > > This cup is 37% deep. I think there are two reasons why you should > limit > > > > the > > > > > depth of what could be a proper cup&handle. > > > > > > > > > > One is that if the cup is too deep then the uptrend and the > psychology of > > > > the > > > > > long term holders is clearly broken. You don't want a stock that has > > > > fallen 80% > > > > > and is now coming back... In this regard I think DSL is just OK, > it's > > > > uptrend is > > > > > intact. (It's 200 DMA has never rolled over and the price always > bounced > > > > back > > > > > from it.) > > > > > > > > > > The other reason why you don't want too deep cups is the following: > if a > > > > cup is > > > > > 50% deep, then at the top of the cup it has already advanced 100% > from > > > > bottom of > > > > > the cup: then it is extended and likely there will be many profit > takers. > > > > For a > > > > > 37% deep cup it's approximately 58%, while in the case of a proper > 25% > > > > deep cup > > > > > the stock only needs to rally 33% to make a new high. So my problem > is > > > > that DSL > > > > > was quite extended when it broke out of a short handle on 7/30 (I > suppose > > > > you > > > > > bought this breakout). Had there been a proper handle, say 3 weeks, > then > > > > it > > > > > would not have been extended, and I wouldn't mention the depth of > the cup. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, I have seen many stocks break out from bases lik this a > make > > > > big > > > > > gains -- in good markets. In difficult markets this small things do > > > > matter, I > > > > > think. Just my way of thinking, others may see it otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > Tamas > > > > > > > > > > Ann Hollingworth wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I understand about the handle, yes, but what makes the cup too > deep? WON > > > > > > says max 20-30% or 40-50% in a bear market. The intraday high was > 61.94, > > > > and > > > > > > so the intraday low could be 43.36 (or 30.97 in bear). The > intraday low > > > > was > > > > > > 38.82. > > > > > > Thanks to everyone for the feedback. > > > > > > Ann > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Makara, Tamas" > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:35 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you sure this chart was so sood? Sure it was a strong stock, > but > > > > the > > > > > > cup was > > > > > > > to deep, at least for my taste, and there was no two week > handle. So > > > > it > > > > > > wasn't a > > > > > > > perfect/textbook CANSLI chart. In a strong market these nuances > may > > > > not > > > > > > matter, > > > > > > > but... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tamas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ann Hollingworth wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy, > > > > > > > > I did, too (got in when everyone said not to)! As someone said > > > > recently, > > > > > > > > when I start looking at charts and see good ones, I can't help > > > > myself! > > > > > > > > Maybe DSL is forming a handle, but even if it is, it shouldn't > have > > > > this > > > > > > > > huge volume. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad you're only down 2%. Maybe I'll do the same. > > > > > > > > Ann > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Drewcorp" > > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:35 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm down about 2% and contemplating the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The volume is at 371,800 shares which may cause it to be > just > > > > slightly > > > > > > > > below > > > > > > > > > the breakout volume of 444,100 by the end of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just put a sell in at market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you can tell, I ignored everybody who said stay out of > the > > > > > > market!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: "Ann Hollingworth" > > > > > > > > > To: "CANSLIM Listserv" > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:07 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CANSLIM] DSL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts on what's happening to DSL? I'm down 3%, but > > > > thinking > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > bailing out because of high volume on downside. > > > > > > > > > > Ann > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > - > > > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > - > > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:25:51 -0600 From: esetser Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Depth in todays IC was:DSL It seems this pattern is not consistent with WONs original definition (previous message). I think sometimes the definitions get "expanded" a bit to support a good chart in IBD. At 03:53 PM 8/15/01 -0400, you wrote: >So you are stating that this article, which clearly states that the cup >formed from April 1999 to Sept. 29, 2000 with a handle to Nov. 29, 2000, is >NOT a good example of a cup w/ handle. > >I'm dumbfounded. > >Why would David Saito-Chung, an IBD staff writer, reference poor examples to >demonstrate proper buy points? There must be good charts he could have >used. > >If a canslimmer should not treat it as a valid form, why would DSC? Have >you noticed staff writers referencing poor charts in the past? > >Andy Johnson >raj@drewcorp.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Makara, Tamas" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:53 PM >Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Depth in todays IC was:DSL > > >> sorry for the typo, this sentence should read: In 1998 and the bigger part >of 1999 >> NYCB built a huge top following a multiyear uptrend. >> >> Makara, Tamas wrote: >> >> > I don't view that as a CANSLIM type cup and handle. The chart formation >has the >> > shape of a cup, but it's not what a CANSLIM cup and handle is: a >correction >> > recovery pattern within an uptrend. >> > >> > In 1998 and the bigger part of 1999 NYCB built a huge to following a >multiyear >> > uptrend. Then it broke down and went into a downtrend and lost more than >half of >> > it's value. The stock spent 2000 building a bottom between 11.50 and >14.45. When >> > it broke out of this bottom formation (i.e. base) on 7/20/2000, a new >uptrend >> > began. This uptrend has been intact ever since. After a more than 30% >rise the >> > stock formed it's first O'Neil type base between 9/29/2000 and >11/28/2000. The >> > second base was a seven week double bottom between 2/13/2001 and >3/29/2001. >> > >> > I don't know what IBD wrote, but in my opinion no canslimer should treat >that >> > almost two year long cup shaped formation as a valid cup and handle. >> > >> > Tamas >> > >> > Drewcorp wrote: >> > >> > > I understand what you are saying Tamas, and thanks... I have not >thought of >> > > it in this way. >> > > >> > > I find it interesting, though, that in today's Investors Corner, they >give >> > > an example of NYCB which had a cup depth of 52% starting in a strong >market >> > > and ending in a weak one. >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Makara, Tamas" >> > > To: >> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:37 PM >> > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL >> > > >> > > > This cup is 37% deep. I think there are two reasons why you should >limit >> > > the >> > > > depth of what could be a proper cup&handle. >> > > > >> > > > One is that if the cup is too deep then the uptrend and the >psychology of >> > > the >> > > > long term holders is clearly broken. You don't want a stock that has >> > > fallen 80% >> > > > and is now coming back... In this regard I think DSL is just OK, >it's >> > > uptrend is >> > > > intact. (It's 200 DMA has never rolled over and the price always >bounced >> > > back >> > > > from it.) >> > > > >> > > > The other reason why you don't want too deep cups is the following: >if a >> > > cup is >> > > > 50% deep, then at the top of the cup it has already advanced 100% >from >> > > bottom of >> > > > the cup: then it is extended and likely there will be many profit >takers. >> > > For a >> > > > 37% deep cup it's approximately 58%, while in the case of a proper >25% >> > > deep cup >> > > > the stock only needs to rally 33% to make a new high. So my problem >is >> > > that DSL >> > > > was quite extended when it broke out of a short handle on 7/30 (I >suppose >> > > you >> > > > bought this breakout). Had there been a proper handle, say 3 weeks, >then >> > > it >> > > > would not have been extended, and I wouldn't mention the depth of >the cup. >> > > > >> > > > Of course, I have seen many stocks break out from bases lik this a >make >> > > big >> > > > gains -- in good markets. In difficult markets this small things do >> > > matter, I >> > > > think. Just my way of thinking, others may see it otherwise. >> > > > >> > > > Tamas >> > > > >> > > > Ann Hollingworth wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > I understand about the handle, yes, but what makes the cup too >deep? WON >> > > > > says max 20-30% or 40-50% in a bear market. The intraday high was >61.94, >> > > and >> > > > > so the intraday low could be 43.36 (or 30.97 in bear). The >intraday low >> > > was >> > > > > 38.82. >> > > > > Thanks to everyone for the feedback. >> > > > > Ann >> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > > From: "Makara, Tamas" >> > > > > To: >> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:35 PM >> > > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL >> > > > > >> > > > > > Are you sure this chart was so sood? Sure it was a strong stock, >but >> > > the >> > > > > cup was >> > > > > > to deep, at least for my taste, and there was no two week >handle. So >> > > it >> > > > > wasn't a >> > > > > > perfect/textbook CANSLI chart. In a strong market these nuances >may >> > > not >> > > > > matter, >> > > > > > but... >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Tamas >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Ann Hollingworth wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Andy, >> > > > > > > I did, too (got in when everyone said not to)! As someone said >> > > recently, >> > > > > > > when I start looking at charts and see good ones, I can't help >> > > myself! >> > > > > > > Maybe DSL is forming a handle, but even if it is, it shouldn't >have >> > > this >> > > > > > > huge volume. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I'm glad you're only down 2%. Maybe I'll do the same. >> > > > > > > Ann >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > > > > From: "Drewcorp" >> > > > > > > To: >> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:35 PM >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DSL >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I'm down about 2% and contemplating the same thing. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The volume is at 371,800 shares which may cause it to be >just >> > > slightly >> > > > > > > below >> > > > > > > > the breakout volume of 444,100 by the end of the day. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I just put a sell in at market. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > As you can tell, I ignored everybody who said stay out of >the >> > > > > market!!!!!! >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Andy >> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > > > > > From: "Ann Hollingworth" >> > > > > > > > To: "CANSLIM Listserv" >> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:07 PM >> > > > > > > > Subject: [CANSLIM] DSL >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Any thoughts on what's happening to DSL? I'm down 3%, but >> > > thinking >> > > > > of >> > > > > > > > > bailing out because of high volume on downside. >> > > > > > > > > Ann >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > - >> > > >> > > - >> > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" >> > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or >> > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. >> > >> > - >> > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" >> > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or >> > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. >> >> >> - >> -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" >> -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or >> -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > >- >-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" >-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or >-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:24:24 -0600 From: esetser Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Cup Length Based on recent discussions, I went back to HTMMIS, and looked up WON's definition of a cup. "Cup patterns last, in time duration, from 7 to as many as 65 weeks (most are usually 3 to 6 months). The usual percentage correction from the absolute peak to the low point of the price pattern varies from 12% or 15% to 33%." He goes on to say some leaders can correct 40 to 50% and come back, so this would be an outer limit. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:17:24 -0600 From: esetser Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] cprt I think we will need a bit more explanation here. I don't see a cup with handle base anywhere close to your pivot. At 11:48 AM 8/15/01 EDT, you wrote: >I took the high point of the handle and added.13 to it... - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #1611 ****************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.