From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #1913 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Sunday, December 9 2001 Volume 02 : Number 1913 In this issue: [CANSLIM] Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (OT) Re: [CANSLIM] Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (OT) Re: [CANSLIM] Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (OT) Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (was Re: [CANSLIM] Re: AZO & HGS list) Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (was Re: [CANSLIM] Re: AZO & HGS list) Re: [CANSLIM] Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (OT) Re: [CANSLIM] Very short list of stocks [CANSLIM] SOME FEEDBACK NEEDED! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 12:13:14 -0800 From: esetser Subject: [CANSLIM] Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (OT) OT note, the following is a summary of my understanding of the SEPP rules and approaches, not specifically related to CANSLIM. Yes, there is NO WAY that I know of to avoid income taxes on this money. The government either gets you when you make it, or you defer it and he get's you when you pull it out. I just figure taxes are a part of life, so deal with it! My goal here is to look at possible alternatives that will save the 10% penalty. And so you know, that's 10% of your total withdrawal, no 10% of the tax! As far as the withdrawals, there are 3 approaches. One uses your balance divided by your life expectancy, and is updated each year. You must withdraw exactly the amount each year. The second and third approaches take into accounts expected gains over your lifetime. One is based on a rate of return you select, and the other is based on annuity rates. In both cases, you select the return (within some guidelines) and calculate how your account is expected to grow. This gives you a fixed withdrawal amount, and you must take exactly this amount out each year. Both of these approaches are fixed, and not re-calculated after the initial year. The withdrawals for both of these are substantially higher than the first method, about double per year on some numbers I ran a while back. Also note, that you are locked into the approach for 5 years, or until you are 59 1/2, whichever occurs last. (After that, you are free to withdraw as you wish.) If you pull extra money out or leave some in, you will owe the penalty on ALL of your withdrawals. Here is where 2 and 3 get interesting. If you get agressive and assume, say, 12% annual return, and then lose part of your account, you could get into a situtation where you run out of money before you reach 59 1/2, and then you would owe the penalty on all your withdrawals, ouch! For me, I am considering both approach 2 as well as just paying the penalty for a few years to get more flexibility. I'm not sure which I'll go with, but I'm still quite a few years away, unless the NASDAQ gets back into a crazy bull! Hope this helps. There is some good information on the net. One site to look at is: http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/ At 11:30 AM 12/9/01 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Earl > >I've heard about SEPP and have been curious about it. Doesnt it waive >the 10% early withdrawal penalty only. You still get hammered on taxes don't >you? Also does 'substantial equal payments' refer to a fixed value only, say >20k per year, and not a fixed percentage. It would be much better >if it were a percentage. Then as the account continues to grow the yearly >percentage withdrawal would obviously become a larger dollar amount. > > - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 12:41:39 -0700 From: DougC Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (OT) Earl Thanks for the excellent summary on SEPP. It does help clear up some of the questions I had. I will also check out the site you suggest. Like you, based on your summary, I'd be inclined to try the second option but also it's likely I would just take the 10% penalty to retain flexibility. 12:13 PM 12/9/01 -0800, you wrote: >OT note, the following is a summary of my understanding of the SEPP rules >and approaches, not specifically related to CANSLIM. > >Yes, there is NO WAY that I know of to avoid income taxes on this money. >The government either gets you when you make it, or you defer it and he >get's you when you pull it out. I just figure taxes are a part of life, so >deal with it! My goal here is to look at possible alternatives that will >save the 10% penalty. And so you know, that's 10% of your total >withdrawal, no 10% of the tax! > >As far as the withdrawals, there are 3 approaches. One uses your balance >divided by your life expectancy, and is updated each year. You must >withdraw exactly the amount each year. > >The second and third approaches take into accounts expected gains over your >lifetime. One is based on a rate of return you select, and the other is >based on annuity rates. In both cases, you select the return (within some >guidelines) and calculate how your account is expected to grow. This gives >you a fixed withdrawal amount, and you must take exactly this amount out >each year. Both of these approaches are fixed, and not re-calculated after >the initial year. The withdrawals for both of these are substantially >higher than the first method, about double per year on some numbers I ran a >while back. > >Also note, that you are locked into the approach for 5 years, or until you >are 59 1/2, whichever occurs last. (After that, you are free to withdraw >as you wish.) If you pull extra money out or leave some in, you will owe >the penalty on ALL of your withdrawals. Here is where 2 and 3 get >interesting. If you get agressive and assume, say, 12% annual return, and >then lose part of your account, you could get into a situtation where you >run out of money before you reach 59 1/2, and then you would owe the >penalty on all your withdrawals, ouch! > >For me, I am considering both approach 2 as well as just paying the penalty >for a few years to get more flexibility. I'm not sure which I'll go with, >but I'm still quite a few years away, unless the NASDAQ gets back into a >crazy bull! Hope this helps. There is some good information on the net. >One site to look at is: > >http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/ > >At 11:30 AM 12/9/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi Earl > > > >I've heard about SEPP and have been curious about it. Doesnt it waive > >the 10% early withdrawal penalty only. You still get hammered on taxes don't > >you? Also does 'substantial equal payments' refer to a fixed value only, say > >20k per year, and not a fixed percentage. It would be much better > >if it were a percentage. Then as the account continues to grow the yearly > >percentage withdrawal would obviously become a larger dollar amount. > > > > > > > >- >-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" >-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or >-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:51:05 -0500 From: "Al French" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (OT) Doesn't there come a time when you are required to make withdrawals from an IRA? Or is there a way to get around that? Al French - ----- Original Message ----- From: "esetser" To: Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 3:13 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (OT) > > Also note, that you are locked into the approach for 5 years, or until you > are 59 1/2, whichever occurs last. (After that, you are free to withdraw > as you wish.) - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:44:56 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (was Re: [CANSLIM] Re: AZO & HGS list) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C180D0.D5A07460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tim, Something tells me you are going to have fun with this enterprise, = regardless of what you name it. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net AIM: TexWorley ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tim Fisher=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 10:43 AM Subject: Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (was Re: [CANSLIM] Re: AZO & HGS list) Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. Thought about Fisher-ies, Ltd. but that was too = cutsey. Fisheries consulting. AKA Fish Squeezing. Mostly Endangered = Species=20 Act compliance for now; hopefully some fun field work starting in the=20 spring on the Klamath River. At 05:25 AM 12/9/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Good luck, Tim. > >What kind of business? > >Tom Worley >stkguru@netside.net >AIM: TexWorley >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Tim Fisher >>To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >>Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 7:14 PM >>Subject: Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (was Re: [CANSLIM] Re: AZO & HGS = list) >> >>I am going to incorporate myself! Already have some business lined = up, just >>need to get incorporated so the clients can make up contracts. = Should get >>started in Jan, will take a little break until then ;) > >Tim Fisher >Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site >Pacific Fishery Biologists Information >mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com >WWW http://OreRockOn.com - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C180D0.D5A07460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tim,
 
Something tells me you are going to have fun with = this=20 enterprise, regardless of what you name it.
 
Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net
AIM:=20 TexWorley
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tim = Fisher=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 = 10:43=20 AM
Subject: Re: 401K, Roth and IRA = (was Re:=20 [CANSLIM] Re: AZO & HGS list)

Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. Thought about Fisher-ies, Ltd. = but that=20 was too
cutsey. Fisheries consulting. AKA Fish Squeezing. Mostly=20 Endangered Species
Act compliance for now; hopefully some fun = field work=20 starting in the
spring on the Klamath River.

At 05:25 AM = 12/9/2001=20 -0500, you wrote:
>Good luck, Tim.
>
>What kind of=20 business?
>
>Tom Worley
><mailto:stkguru@netside.net>stkguru@netside.net
>AIM:=20 TexWorley
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: = <mailto:Tim@orerockon.com>Tim=20 Fisher
>>To: <mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.= com>canslim@lists.xmission.com=
>>Sent:=20 Saturday, December 08, 2001 7:14 PM
>>Subject: Re: 401K, Roth = and IRA=20 (was Re: [CANSLIM] Re: AZO & HGS list)
>>
>>I am = going=20 to incorporate myself! Already have some business lined up,=20 just
>>need to get incorporated so the clients can make up = contracts.=20 Should get
>>started in Jan, will take a little break until = then=20 ;)
>
>Tim Fisher
>Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web=20 Site
>Pacific Fishery Biologists Information
>mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com
>WWW= http://OreRockOn.com


-
-T= o=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In= the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe = canslim".  Do=20 not use quotes in your email.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C180D0.D5A07460-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:50:36 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (was Re: [CANSLIM] Re: AZO & HGS list) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C180D1.A00CD400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tim, You already got some good answers on this. All I would add is that a = self directed IRA (including a rollover from a 401K) gives you more = discretion than a typical 401K. About the only advantage of leaving the = money in an employer's 401K is to avoid the administrative fees, = assuming your plan allows you to leave it there without charges. If you segregate the rollover money into a single IRA, you can later = roll it back into a future employer's 401K plan if you choose (not sure = why anyone would, but it's an option). If you ever combine money in an = IRA rollover with a normal contribution, then you cannot roll it over = into a new 401K plan. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net AIM: TexWorley ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tim Fisher=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 10:46 AM Subject: Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (was Re: [CANSLIM] Re: AZO & HGS list) Tom, would you leave it in the 401 or transfer to an IRA? I hate the = new=20 (formerly new) employers' 401 and would transfer that $$ into our old = 401=20 in a heartbeat. Is there any advantage leaving it in the 401 (besides = no=20 commissions on their mutual funds)? The old 401 has a DVP account = which is=20 currently with Schwab (I meant to transfer it to Etrade a while ago = but=20 haven't done so yet). At 03:48 PM 12/8/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Tim, > >Also sorry you got cheated out of the party, you should have crashed = it=20 >anyway! > >A Roth IRA consists of after taxed income, that is why you can later=20 >withdraw both principal (already taxed) and profits (not taxed, = that's the=20 >beauty of a Roth) without paying further taxes. > >By definition, a 401K consists of your (and presumably your = employer's)=20 >contributions on a pre-tax basis. Thus, apples and oranges between a = 401K=20 >and a Roth. Your only choice to rollover the 401K without paying = taxes now=20 >is to roll it into an IRA rollover account. And the absolutely best = way to=20 >do that is to first open the IRA rollover account, then take the=20 >instructions from that custodian on procedures (usually the check = from the=20 >401K will be in the name of you, IRA rollover, and payable to the new = >custodian). If you never actually touch the cash, you should have no=20 >problem with IRS. It's ok to get the check if you can't just go out = and=20 >cash it. > >Good luck, what do you plan for your next job? > >Tom Worley >stkguru@netside.net >AIM: TexWorley >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Norman >>To: canslim@lists.xmission.com >>Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 11:38 AM >>Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: AZO & HGS list >> >>Tim, >> >>Sorry you missed the party :-) >> >>I don't think you can avoid the tax. To do a Roth rollover w/o = paying the >>fiddler would be totally against all the concepts of Roth = conversions. My >>advice (the particulars of your 401K plan not withstanding) would be = to roll >>to a traditional IRA, where you used before tax contributions, so = you have >>better control over it. Then do the analysis to see if the = conversion is to >>your best benefit. Depends on many things and is not always the = best thing >>to do. It can get very complicated. I don't think you can roll it = all over >>at once and then spread the tax burden over several years like they = let us >>do when the Roth first became available. But rolling a little each = year >>might be fairly painless (kinda like using barbless hooks). Good = luck. >> >>Norm >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Tim Fisher" <Tim@orerockon.com> >>To: <canslim@lists.xmission.com> >>Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 10:05 AM >>Subject: [CANSLIM] Re: AZO & HGS list >> > >> > On a related subject, does anyone know if there is a way to = rollover a 401 >> > into a Roth IRA without paying tax? Didn't think so. > >Tim Fisher >Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site >Pacific Fishery Biologists Information >mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com >WWW http://OreRockOn.com - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C180D1.A00CD400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tim,
 
You already got some good answers on this. All I = would add is=20 that a self directed IRA (including a rollover from a 401K) gives you = more=20 discretion than a typical 401K. About the only advantage of leaving the = money in=20 an employer's 401K is to avoid the administrative fees, assuming your = plan=20 allows you to leave it there without charges.
 
If you segregate the rollover money into a single = IRA, you can=20 later roll it back into a future employer's 401K plan if you choose (not = sure=20 why anyone would, but it's an option). If you ever combine money in an = IRA=20 rollover with a normal contribution, then you cannot roll it over into a = new=20 401K plan.
 
Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net
AIM:=20 TexWorley
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tim = Fisher=20
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 = 10:46=20 AM
Subject: Re: 401K, Roth and IRA = (was Re:=20 [CANSLIM] Re: AZO & HGS list)

Tom, would you leave it in the 401 or transfer to an = IRA? I=20 hate the new
(formerly new) employers' 401 and would transfer that = $$ into=20 our old 401
in a heartbeat. Is there any advantage leaving it in = the 401=20 (besides no
commissions on their mutual funds)? The old 401 has a = DVP=20 account which is
currently with Schwab (I meant to transfer it to = Etrade a=20 while ago but
haven't done so yet).

At 03:48 PM 12/8/2001 = - -0500,=20 you wrote:
>Hi Tim,
>
>Also sorry you got cheated = out of the=20 party, you should have crashed it
>anyway!
>
>A = Roth IRA=20 consists of after taxed income, that is why you can later =
>withdraw=20 both principal (already taxed) and profits (not taxed, that's the=20
>beauty of a Roth) without paying further = taxes.
>
>By=20 definition, a 401K consists of your (and presumably your employer's)=20
>contributions on a pre-tax basis. Thus, apples and oranges = between a=20 401K
>and a Roth. Your only choice to rollover the 401K without = paying=20 taxes now
>is to roll it into an IRA rollover account. And the=20 absolutely best way to
>do that is to first open the IRA = rollover=20 account, then take the
>instructions from that custodian on = procedures=20 (usually the check from the
>401K will be in the name of you, = IRA=20 rollover, and payable to the new
>custodian). If you never = actually=20 touch the cash, you should have no
>problem with IRS. It's ok = to get=20 the check if you can't just go out and
>cash = it.
>
>Good=20 luck, what do you plan for your next job?
>
>Tom=20 Worley
><mailto:stkguru@netside.net>stkguru@netside.net
>AIM:=20 TexWorley
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: = <mailto:theboyd@tisd.net>Norman>>To:=20 <mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.= com>canslim@lists.xmission.com=
>>Sent:=20 Saturday, December 08, 2001 11:38 AM
>>Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] = Re: AZO=20 & HGS = list
>>
>>Tim,
>>
>>Sorry you=20 missed the party :-)
>>
>>I don't think you can = avoid the=20 tax.  To do a Roth rollover w/o paying the
>>fiddler = would be=20 totally against all the concepts of Roth conversions. =20 My
>>advice (the particulars of your 401K plan not = withstanding)=20 would be to roll
>>to a traditional IRA, where you used = before tax=20 contributions, so you have
>>better control over it.  = Then do=20 the analysis to see if the conversion is to
>>your best=20 benefit.  Depends on many things and is not always the best=20 thing
>>to do.  It can get very complicated.  I = don't think=20 you can roll it all over
>>at once and then spread the tax = burden=20 over several years like they let us
>>do when the Roth first = became=20 available.  But rolling a little each year
>>might be = fairly=20 painless (kinda like using barbless hooks).  Good=20 luck.
>>
>>Norm
>>----- Original Message=20 -----
>>From: "Tim Fisher" <<mailto:Tim@orerockon.com>Tim@orerockon.com>
>>To= :=20 <<mailto:canslim@lists.xmission.= com>canslim@lists.xmission.com= >
>>Sent:=20 Saturday, December 08, 2001 10:05 AM
>>Subject: [CANSLIM] Re: = AZO=20 & HGS list
>> >
>> > On a related subject, = does=20 anyone know if there is a way to rollover a 401
>> > into = a Roth=20 IRA without paying tax? Didn't think so.
>
>Tim=20 Fisher
>Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site
>Pacific Fishery = Biologists Information
>mailto:tim@OreRockOn.com
>WWW= http://OreRockOn.com


-
-T= o=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In= the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe = canslim".  Do=20 not use quotes in your email.
- ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C180D1.A00CD400-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:55:51 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (OT) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C180D2.5BB412E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If I remember the rules correctly, during the year in which you will = reach 72, you must start taking withdrawals from all your tax deferred = accounts on a collective basis according to your life expectancy. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net AIM: TexWorley ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al French=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (OT) Doesn't there come a time when you are required to make withdrawals from an IRA? Or is there a way to get around that? Al French ----- Original Message ----- From: "esetser" To: Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 3:13 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] Re: 401K, Roth and IRA (OT) > > Also note, that you are locked into the approach for 5 years, or until you > are 59 1/2, whichever occurs last. (After that, you are free to withdraw > as you wish.) - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C180D2.5BB412E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If I remember the rules correctly, during the year = in which=20 you will reach 72, you must start taking withdrawals from all your tax = deferred=20 accounts on a collective basis according to your life = expectancy.
 
Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net
AIM:=20 TexWorley
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Al=20 French
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 = 2:51=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Re: = 401K, Roth and=20 IRA (OT)

Doesn't there come a time when you are required to=20 make
withdrawals from an IRA?  Or is there a way to get around = that?

Al French
----- Original Message -----
From: = "esetser"=20 <esetser@covad.net>
To: = <canslim@lists.xmission.com= >
Sent:=20 Sunday, December 09, 2001 3:13 PM
Subject: [CANSLIM] Re: 401K, Roth = and IRA=20 (OT)
>
> Also note, that you are locked into the approach = for 5=20 years, or
until you
> are 59 1/2, whichever occurs = last.  (After=20 that, you are free to
withdraw
> as you = wish.)


-
-To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In= the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe = canslim".  Do=20 not use quotes in your email.
- ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C180D2.5BB412E0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:02:55 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Very short list of stocks This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C180D3.58798BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Doug, I can hardly disagree with your suggestions since I am a firm = believer in keeping screening criteria loose enough to allow human = intelligence to play a part in the final review. Since I also have both = POSS and APOG (up now 25 and 14% respectively) in my VR fund, I am not = in a position to suggest your looser criteria are "too loose". I avoided TWRI primarily because of my personal knowledge of the time = share industry. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net AIM: TexWorley ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DougC=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Very short list of stocks Andreas Most of the criteria you list below is similar to what I use and = probably=20 what a lot of other canslim followers use. If you want to widen the = net a=20 little I'd suggest dropping the annual %EPS growth rate, change in = latest=20 quarterly sales, annual % sales growth rate and the ROE criteria. Also = I'd=20 include stocks not currently showing any funds ownership. Some members = of=20 this list with vast business and stock investing experience might = strongly=20 disagree with my suggestions, especially ROE. But I'd found by = dropping=20 those criteria in my initial searches I at least get a good look at=20 possible turnaround situations .i.e apog, poss. APOG has negative = quarterly=20 sales growth year over year but the last three sequential quarters = have a=20 positive progression. Also a stock like TWRI has 0 funds (and a grs of = 48)=20 but the rest of it's numbers are fantastic and it's been doing pretty = good. At 04:50 AM 12/9/01 +0100, you wrote: >Interesting: Only DFXI, ECTX and TTIL (darn, did not get this = breakout=20 >...) match those criterias !!! > >Screen Criteria Parameters >Earnings Per Share (EPS) Rating From 79 to 99 >Relative Price Strength (RS) Rating From 79 to 99 % >Change in Latest Quarter's EPS vs. Same Quarter Prior Year From 25 to = 999 >Annual % EPS Growth Rate of Last 3 Years From 25 to 999 % >Change Latest Quarter's Sales vs. Same Quarter Prior Year From 25 to = 999 >Annual % Sales Growth Rate of Last 3 Years From 25 to 999 >Shares Outstanding(Mil.) From 1 to 40 >% of Stock Owned by Mutual Funds From 1 to 40 Current Price From 6 = to 999 % >Current Price is off High, Year to Date From -15 to 999 >ROE (Latest Fiscal Year Reported) From 12 to 999 Debt % (Latest = Fiscal=20 >Year Reported) > From 0 to 100 Accumulation/Distribution (Acc/Dis) Rating A, B = Exchange=20 > NYSE, AMEX, NASDAQ > > >- >-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" >-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or >-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C180D3.58798BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Doug, I can hardly disagree with your suggestions = since I am a=20 firm believer in keeping screening criteria loose enough to allow human=20 intelligence to play a part in the final review. Since I also have both = POSS and=20 APOG (up now 25 and 14% respectively) in my VR fund, I am not in a = position to=20 suggest your looser criteria are "too loose".
 
I avoided TWRI primarily because of my personal = knowledge of=20 the time share industry.
 
Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net
AIM:=20 TexWorley
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 DougC =
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 = 12:59=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Very = short list of=20 stocks

Andreas

Most of the criteria you list below is = similar=20 to what I use and probably
what a lot of other canslim followers = use. If=20 you want to widen the net a
little I'd suggest dropping the annual = %EPS=20 growth rate, change in latest
quarterly sales, annual % sales = growth rate=20 and the ROE criteria. Also I'd
include stocks not currently = showing any=20 funds ownership. Some members of
this list with vast business and = stock=20 investing experience might strongly
disagree with my suggestions,=20 especially ROE. But I'd found by dropping
those criteria in my = initial=20 searches I at least get a good look at
possible turnaround = situations .i.e=20 apog, poss. APOG has negative quarterly
sales growth year over = year but=20 the last three sequential quarters have a
positive progression. = Also a=20 stock like TWRI has 0 funds (and a grs of 48)
but the rest of it's = numbers=20 are fantastic and it's been doing pretty good.


At 04:50 AM = 12/9/01=20 +0100, you wrote:
>Interesting: Only DFXI, ECTX and TTIL (darn, = did not=20 get this breakout
>...) match those criterias = !!!
>
>Screen=20 Criteria Parameters
>Earnings Per Share (EPS) Rating From 79 to=20 99
>Relative Price Strength (RS) Rating From 79 to 99 = %
>Change in=20 Latest Quarter's EPS vs. Same Quarter Prior Year From 25 to = 999
>Annual=20 % EPS Growth Rate of Last 3 Years From 25 to 999 %
>Change = Latest=20 Quarter's Sales vs. Same Quarter Prior Year From 25 to = 999
>Annual %=20 Sales Growth Rate of Last 3 Years From 25 to 999
>Shares=20 Outstanding(Mil.) From 1 to 40
>% of  Stock Owned by Mutual = Funds=20 From 1 to 40 Current Price From 6 to 999 %
>Current Price is off = High,=20 Year to Date From -15 to 999
>ROE (Latest Fiscal Year Reported) = From 12=20 to 999 Debt % (Latest Fiscal
>Year Reported)
> From 0 to = 100=20 Accumulation/Distribution (Acc/Dis) Rating A, B Exchange
> = NYSE, AMEX,=20 NASDAQ
>
>
>-
>-To subscribe/unsubscribe, = email "majordomo@xmission.com"
>= ;-In=20 the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
>-"unsubscribe=20 canslim".  Do not use quotes in your email.


-
-To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In= the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe = canslim".  Do=20 not use quotes in your email.
- ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C180D3.58798BE0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:20:21 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: [CANSLIM] SOME FEEDBACK NEEDED! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C180D5.C80143C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Every weekend I complete and post my Worley's Weekend Weeview, including = a review of many CANSLIM quality stocks. I try to keep the commentary = interesting for those not as obsessed as me in reading everything = happening about stock markets globally. While this "feature" evolved out of my ongoing process of trying to stay = in touch with what "M" is saying, typing it up and posting it instead of = just leaving it stagnate in my head was an attempt to share my thoughts = with the group, as well as to check out my thinking with all of you. Both the commentary, and the review of charts, begs a response, yet I = get none. This weekend, I also throw out the concept of two new chart = patterns I called CATs and RATs, and not a single comment, challenge, = question, etc. I can only conclude that my WWW is a waste of time for most members, and = better kept to myself. I see nothing to convince me I am wrong. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net AIM: TexWorley - ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C180D5.C80143C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Every weekend I complete and post my Worley's = Weekend Weeview,=20 including a review of many CANSLIM quality stocks. I try to keep the = commentary=20 interesting for those not as obsessed as me in reading everything = happening=20 about stock markets globally.
 
While this "feature" evolved out of my ongoing = process of=20 trying to stay in touch with what "M" is saying, typing it up and = posting it=20 instead of just leaving it stagnate in my head was an attempt to share = my=20 thoughts with the group, as well as to check out my thinking with all of = you.
 
Both the commentary, and the review of charts, begs = a=20 response, yet I get none. This weekend, I also throw out the concept of = two new=20 chart patterns I called CATs and RATs, and not a single comment, = challenge,=20 question, etc.
 
I can only conclude that my WWW is a waste of time = for most=20 members, and better kept to myself. I see nothing to convince me I am=20 wrong.
 
Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net
AIM:=20 TexWorley
- ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01C180D5.C80143C0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #1913 ****************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.