From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #2168 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Tuesday, February 26 2002 Volume 02 : Number 2168 In this issue: Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? You Gain From Expert Advice 0105Kwhv5-315mLkel16 Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:40:10 -0600 From: "Katherine Malm" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C1BEDB.DFF0CCA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_002E_01C1BEDB.DFF0CCA0" - ------=_NextPart_001_002E_01C1BEDB.DFF0CCA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankRich, I'm a little suspect of the jump between 44.7 & 87.9% ownership in that = one period. I'd bet the numbers weren't adjusted for a split somewhere, = which isn't all that uncommon in the databases. Opinion varies on the maximum desirable % ownership, but Mark Boucher = suggests 10-40%. When the number of shares outstanding is as small as = your example, however, there might be other variables to consider. For = example, how many are authorized and do they have any plans for a = primary offering any time soon? Is that really 13.9m shares outstanding = or 13.9m shares in float? If it's a fairly new IPO and those are float = shares, a good number of shares may still be in lockup and classified as = insider ownership. Is this a spin-off with a parent company that owns = most of the shares? Katherine ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rich W=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:11 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? Tom or anyone else who has an answer to this. Here is a stock that has increased institutional ownership since = July,01 Top number is # of funds, banks, etc. 2nd row is % of ownership 72 95 104 116 140 149 158=20 46.9 38.8 35.3 44.7 87.9 91.4 92.4=20 Total shares outstanding =3D=3D 13,910,000 @21.50 From Market Guide is this much ownership too much, and what is the Max to look for=20 - ------=_NextPart_001_002E_01C1BEDB.DFF0CCA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Rich,
 
I'm a little suspect of the = jump=20 between 44.7 & 87.9% ownership in that one period. I'd bet the = numbers=20 weren't adjusted for a split somewhere, which isn't all that uncommon in = the=20 databases.
 
Opinion varies on the = maximum desirable=20 % ownership, but Mark Boucher suggests 10-40%. When the number of shares = outstanding is as small as your example, however, there might be other = variables=20 to consider. For example, how many are authorized and do they have any = plans for=20 a primary offering any time soon?  Is that really 13.9m shares = outstanding=20 or 13.9m shares in float? If it's a fairly new IPO and those are float = shares, a=20 good number of shares may still be in lockup and classified as insider=20 ownership. Is this a spin-off with a parent company that owns most of = the=20 shares?
 
Katherine
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Rich = W
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, = 2002 3:11=20 PM
Subject: [CANSLIM] what is to = much=20 ownership??

Tom or anyone else who has an answer to = this.
Here is a stock that has increased institutional = ownership=20 since July,01
Top number is # of funds, banks, etc.
2nd row is % of ownership

72 95 104 116 140 149 15846.9 38.8 35.3 44.7 87.9 91.4 92.4

Total shares outstanding =3D=3D  = 13,910,000 =20 @21.50

From Market Guide

 is this much ownership too much, and what is = the Max to=20 look for 

- ------=_NextPart_001_002E_01C1BEDB.DFF0CCA0-- - ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C1BEDB.DFF0CCA0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <002c01c1bf0e$2a3ef160$0200a8c0@mindspring.com> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== - ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C1BEDB.DFF0CCA0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:46:30 -0500 From: "Rob Miller" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1BEE5.23DBCC40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0025_01C1BEE5.23DBCC40" - ------=_NextPart_001_0025_01C1BEE5.23DBCC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankRich, This is too much in my opinion. I don't use a specific number as a = screen, but 92% is clearly too high. Sometimes, depending on the type = of stock and the number of shares outstanding, it may be the case that = much of the institutional ownership is from pensions, state plans, etc., = where the probability of large scale selling is reduced. In this case, = you have a small number of shares (although I don't know the price, so = I'm assuming its not a $300 stock), so in all likelihood mutual funds = are the biggest holders. Mutual funds are weaker sponsors, so while = there is little room for further instititutional buying, there are a = large number of potential sellers. I rarely bother digging that deep = into the sponsorship structure if institutional ownership is high. I = usually just look at DGO and if fund ownership is too high, say over = 30%, then I just move on. DGO only shows funds and banks, whereas other = sources include all sponsors so the numbers are much higher, and less = reliable. I assume you are not using DGO since few stocks have fund and = bank sponsorship greater than 90% (a scan turned up only 12). I would = stick to DGO, if you have it, and avoid other sources, unless someone = else on the list can recommend another reliable source...I haven't found = one. =20 Rob - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rich W=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 4:11 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? Tom or anyone else who has an answer to this. Here is a stock that has increased institutional ownership since = July,01 Top number is # of funds, banks, etc. 2nd row is % of ownership 72 95 104 116 140 149 158=20 46.9 38.8 35.3 44.7 87.9 91.4 92.4=20 Total shares outstanding =3D=3D 13,910,000 @21.50 From Market Guide is this much ownership too much, and what is the Max to look for=20 - ------=_NextPart_001_0025_01C1BEE5.23DBCC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Rich,
 
This is too much in my opinion.  I don't use a specific number = as a=20 screen, but 92% is clearly too high.  Sometimes, depending on the = type of=20 stock and the number of shares outstanding, it may be the case that much = of the=20 institutional ownership is from pensions, state plans, etc., where the=20 probability of large scale selling is reduced.  In this = case, you have=20 a small number of shares (although I don't know the price, so I'm = assuming its=20 not a $300 stock), so in all likelihood mutual funds are the biggest=20 holders.  Mutual funds are weaker sponsors, so while there is = little room=20 for further instititutional buying, there are a large number of = potential=20 sellers.  I rarely bother digging that deep into the = sponsorship=20 structure if institutional ownership is high.  I usually=20 just look at DGO and if fund ownership is too high, say over 30%, = then I=20 just move on.  DGO only shows funds and banks, whereas other = sources=20 include all sponsors so the numbers are much higher, and less = reliable.  I=20 assume you are not using DGO since few stocks have fund and bank = sponsorship=20 greater than 90% (a scan turned up only 12).  I would stick to DGO, = if you=20 have it, and avoid other sources, unless someone else on the list can = recommend=20 another reliable source...I haven't found one. 
 
Rob
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Rich = W
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, = 2002 4:11=20 PM
Subject: [CANSLIM] what is to = much=20 ownership??

Tom or anyone else who has an answer to = this.
Here is a stock that has increased institutional = ownership=20 since July,01
Top number is # of funds, banks, etc.
2nd row is % of ownership

72 95 104 116 140 149 15846.9 38.8 35.3 44.7 87.9 91.4 92.4

Total shares outstanding =3D=3D  = 13,910,000 =20 @21.50

From Market Guide

 is this much ownership too much, and what is = the Max to=20 look for 

- ------=_NextPart_001_0025_01C1BEE5.23DBCC40-- - ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1BEE5.23DBCC40 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <002301c1bf0f$0cabb9c0$a04c1918@rob> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== - ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1BEE5.23DBCC40-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:02:56 -0600 From: "Rich W" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C1BEE7.6F849FD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rob, I do have DGO and here is what they show today Funds 13%, Banks 8 %, and Mgmt 12% I just went back to Market guide and now they show 67% with 3.5m sold = since last report. this in 10 days ( not sure when this took place). MSN also shows about the same now, but also showed big % on the 15th when I wrote to DGO as to why they had so much smaller numbers, they said they do not include as much ( can not find the answer now, was from = the 15th). So I am not sure who to check for ownership, but it does show one must = check more than one source for the facts. the stock is TALX, a St.Louis Co. - ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C1BEE7.6F849FD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rob,
I do have DGO and here is = what they show=20 today
Funds 13%, Banks 8 %, and = Mgmt=20 12%
I just went back to Market = guide and now=20 they show 67% with 3.5m sold since last report.
this in 10 days ( not sure = when this took=20 place).
MSN also shows about the same = now, but=20 also showed big % on the 15th
when I wrote to DGO as to why = they had so=20 much smaller numbers, they
said they do not include as = much ( can=20 not find the answer now, was from the 15th).
So I am not sure who to check = for=20 ownership, but it does show one must check more
than one source for the=20 facts.
the stock is TALX, a St.Louis = Co.
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C1BEE7.6F849FD0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:07:57 -0700 From: Subject: You Gain From Expert Advice 0105Kwhv5-315mLkel16 - ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_17A71B7D.E3156C51 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MzAzOERrRUYwLTZsMTANCg0KVGhlIFdlYWx0aCBZb3UgRGVzZXJ2ZSBOb3cN Cg0KU1RPUCBJbnZlc3RpbmcgVGhlIFNhbWUgT2xkIFdheXMhISENClVubG9j ayB0aGUgZG9vcnMgdG8gU1RBR0dFUklORyBQUk9GSVRTIQ0KDQpUaXJlZCBv ZiBTdG9jayBNYXJrZXQgVXBzIGFuZCBEb3ducz8NCk11dHVhbCBGdW5kcyBT dGlsbCBvbiBhIFJvbGxlciBDb2FzdGVyPw0KDQpOT1cgaXMgdGhlIFRpbWUg dG8gRW1icmFjZSBUaGUgRU5FUkdZIE1hcmtldHMhDQpDb21tb2RpdHkgVHJh ZGluZyBNYWtlcyBNaWxsaW9ucyBFdmVyeSBEYXkhDQoNClBvd2VyZnVsIFBy b2ZpdHMgQXdhaXQgWU9VIEluIFRoZSBFTkVSR1kgTWFya2V0cyEhIQ0KRm9y dHVuZXMgd2lsbCBsaXRlcmFsbHkgYmUgbWFkZSBpbiB0aGUgbmV4dCBmZXcg bW9udGhzIQ0KDQpHZXQgWW91ciBGUkVFIEVuZXJneSBJbnZlc3RtZW50IElu Zm9ybWF0aW9uIFBhY2tldCBhdDoNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubW9ydGc0dW5ldC5j b20vZW5lcmd5DQoNCipXZSBhbGwgTkVFRCBFTkVSR1kuLi5ldmVyeSBkYXkh DQoqV2UgYWxsIFVTRSBFbmVyZ3kuLi5ldmVyeSBkYXkhDQoqWW91ciBMaWZl IFJlc29sdmVzIGFyb3VuZCBFTkVSR1khDQoqRXZlcnkgTWFqb3IgQ291bnRy eSBpbiB0aGUgd29ybGQgY29uc3VtZXMgRU5FUkdZIGRhaWx5IQ0KDQpUaGUg Rml2ZSBNYWpvciBFbmVyZ3kgTWFya2V0cyBhcmU6DQoqVW5sZWFkZWQgR2Fz b2xpbmUNCipFbGVjdHJpY2l0eQ0KKk5hdHVyYWwgR2FzDQoqSGVhdGluZyBP aWwNCipDcnVkZSBPaWwNCg0KUmVjZW50bHksIGdhc29saW5lIHByaWNlcyBh bmQgY3J1ZGUgb2lsIHByaWNlcyB3ZXJlIHZlcnkgbG93LA0KYnV0IGFyZSBu b3cgcmlzaW5nIGFnYWluIGF0IHRoZSBuZWlnaGJvcmhvb2QgcHVtcHMuDQpM ZXQgdXMgc2hvdyB5b3UgaG93IHRvIHByb2ZpdCBmcm9tIHRoZXNlIHByaWNl IG1vdmVtZW50cyENCg0KV2UgY2FuIHNob3cgeW91IGhvdyBtYW55IG9mIG91 ciBjbGllbnRzIGhhdmUgdHVybmVkIGEgc21hbGwNCmludmVzdG1lbnQgb2Yg b25seSAkMTAsMDAwIGludG8gJDUwLDAwMCBvciBNT1JFIGluIGEgdmVyeSBz aG9ydA0KcGVyaW9kIG9mIHRpbWUhICBJc24ndCBldmVyeW9uZSBsb29raW5n IGZvciBZSUVMRFMgbGlrZSB0aGF0Pw0KKCQ1LDAwMCBNaW5pbXVtIEludmVz dG1lbnQpDQoNCkhPVz8gQmVjYXVzZSBXRSBBUkUgIlRoZSBFbmVyZ3kgRXhw ZXJ0cyIgYW5kIHdlIGFyZSB0cnVseQ0KRW5lcmd5IE1hcmtldCBTcGVjaWFs aXN0cy4gV2UgS05PVyB0aGUgRW5lcmd5IE1hcmtldHMhDQoNCldlIGFyZSBh biBleHBlcmllbmNlZCwgcHJvZmVzc2lvbmFsIGZpcm0gd2l0aCBvdmVyIDI1 IHllYXJzIG9mDQpleHBlcmllbmNlLiBMZWFybiBob3cgb3VyIGNsaWVudHMg Z2V0IHRoZSBiZXN0IHJlc3VsdHMsIGFuZA0KcmVjZWl2ZSB0aGUgbW9zdCBw cm9mZXNzaW9uYWwgY2FyZSBpbiB0aGUgaW52ZXN0bWVudCB3b3JsZCB0b2Rh eSENCg0KT1BFQyBhbm5vdW5jZWQgMTEvMS8wMSB0aGV5IHdvdWxkIGJlIGN1 dHRpbmcgb2lsIHByb2R1Y3Rpb24NCmJlY2F1c2UgcHJpY2VzIHdlcmUganVz dCB0b28gbG93LiAgT1BFQyBBR0FJTiBhbm5vdW5jZWQNCm9uIDEyLzI4LzAx IHRvIGN1dCBwcm9kdWN0aW9uIGFub3RoZXIgNiUgc3RhcnRpbmcgMS8xLzAy IQ0KDQpIb3cgd2lsbCB0aGF0IGFmZmVjdCBvaWwgcHJpY2VzPz8/DQpQcmlj ZXMgcmVhY2ggZXh0cmVtZXMgZm9yIHJlYXNvbnMuLi4NCkRvIHlvdSB3YW50 IHRvIGtub3cgdGhlIHJlYXNvbnMgV0hZPw0KDQpHZXQgWW91ciBGUkVFIEVu ZXJneSBJbnZlc3RtZW50IEluZm9ybWF0aW9uIFBhY2tldCBhdDoNCmh0dHA6 Ly93d3cubW9ydGc0dW5ldC5jb20vZW5lcmd5DQoNCg0KKE9wdC1PdXQgSW5z dHJ1Y3Rpb25zKQ0KWW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBieSBl aXRoZXIgcmVxdWVzdGluZyBtb3JlDQppbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBvbiBvbmUgb2Yg b3VyIGludmVzdG1lbnQgb3Bwb3J0dW5pdGllcyBvciBzb21lb25lIG1heQ0K aGF2ZSB1c2VkIHlvdXIgZW1haWwgYWRkcmVzcy4gVG8gYmUgcmVtb3ZlZCBm cm9tIG91ciBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCmFuZCB0byBiZSBhdXRvbWF0aWNhbGx5 IHJlbW92ZWQgZnJvbSBhbnkgZnV0dXJlIG1haWxpbmdzLQ0KR28gVG8gVGhl IGxpbmsgYWJvdmUgYW5kIGF0IHRoZSBib3R0b20gb2YgdGhlIHdlYnNpdGUN CnN1Ym1pdCBhIHJlcXVlc3QgZm9yIE9wdC1PdXQhDQo4MjIzYXduRjEtODkx clZZcTQ1MDNUQnB2My0wNjN0TnJzMTg0NGtsMzcNCg== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:45:24 -0500 From: "Rob Miller" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C1BEFE.21D48130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rich, Sorry for the long winded answer...but...as you know, DGO only includes = banks and funds. They exclude institutional sponsors, pension funds, = endowments, etc. Bank and fund holdings tend to be more volatile which = is why I think DGO includes them. Institutional sponsors will often = hold stocks for political or other reasons. For example, an endowment = may hold the stock of a company that they have some relationship with, = or a investment management company may hold a stock because a wealthy = client has directed them to do so. These holdings tend to change much = less frequently. As for TALX, the reason for the abrupt change in = ownership appears to be that their venture capitalist, HLM Management, = sold all their holdings. At the end of the third quarter, HLM owned = almost 27.5% of the stock, all of which was sold by year end. This is = not uncommon. Venture capitalist firms are strong holders while they = wait for their hand to play out, but once their objectives are met, = they're gone. It would be better if DGO included some institutional sponsors. A fund = company like Janus could own 1 million shares total, but only 100,000 = shares in retail mutual funds. The rest would be in separately managed = (private) accounts, which would not show up on DGO. Alas, that would be = asking too much. =20 Rob =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rich W=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? Rob, I do have DGO and here is what they show today Funds 13%, Banks 8 %, and Mgmt 12% I just went back to Market guide and now they show 67% with 3.5m sold = since last report. this in 10 days ( not sure when this took place). MSN also shows about the same now, but also showed big % on the 15th when I wrote to DGO as to why they had so much smaller numbers, they said they do not include as much ( can not find the answer now, was = from the 15th). So I am not sure who to check for ownership, but it does show one must = check more than one source for the facts. the stock is TALX, a St.Louis Co. - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C1BEFE.21D48130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rich,
 
Sorry for the long winded = answer...but...as you=20 know, DGO only includes banks and funds.  They exclude = institutional=20 sponsors, pension funds, endowments, etc.  Bank and fund holdings = tend to=20 be more volatile which is why I think DGO includes them.  = Institutional=20 sponsors will often hold stocks for political or other reasons.  = For=20 example, an endowment may hold the stock of a company that = they have=20 some relationship with, or a investment management company may hold a = stock=20 because a wealthy client has directed them to do so.  These = holdings tend=20 to change much less frequently.  As for TALX, the reason for = the=20 abrupt change in ownership appears to be that their venture=20 capitalist, HLM Management, sold all their holdings.  At the = end of=20 the third quarter, HLM owned almost 27.5% of the stock, all of = which=20 was sold by year end.  This is not uncommon.  Venture = capitalist firms=20 are strong holders while they wait for their hand to play out, = but=20 once their objectives are met, they're gone.
 
It would be better if DGO included some = institutional sponsors.  A fund company like Janus could = own 1=20 million shares total, but only 100,000 shares in retail mutual = funds.  The=20 rest would be in separately managed (private) accounts, which would not=20 show up on DGO.  Alas, that would be asking too=20 much.    
 
Rob  
 
      
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Rich = W
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, = 2002 6:02=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what is = to much=20 ownership??

Rob,
I do have DGO and here is = what they=20 show today
Funds 13%, Banks 8 %, and = Mgmt=20 12%
I just went back to Market = guide and=20 now they show 67% with 3.5m sold since last report.
this in 10 days ( not sure = when this=20 took place).
MSN also shows about the = same now, but=20 also showed big % on the 15th
when I wrote to DGO as to = why they had=20 so much smaller numbers, they
said they do not include as = much ( can=20 not find the answer now, was from the 15th).
So I am not sure who to = check for=20 ownership, but it does show one must check more
than one source for the=20 facts.
the stock is TALX, a = St.Louis=20 Co.
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C1BEFE.21D48130-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:45:01 -0500 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C1BF06.76309950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I much prefer from 0% to 10% funds ownership. I never consider bank = ownership, as I have found that they are often the proxy owner for = otherwise unidentified holders. Occasionally, I will look at ownership = by venture capitalists and pension funds. I have very rarely bought a stock with funds ownership over 20-30% = ownership, and usually then only because management had a very large = stake (often 50-60%) leaving very few shares in the float (thus = exaggerating the funds ownership percentage). Even DGO's 13% funds ownership is quite high on a company with only 13.9 = million shares outstanding. I also note that sales growth seems slight compared to the large growth = in earnings. Company has forecasted Q4 results (ending March) which = continues this pattern. I would want to be sure this represents a shift = to higher margin products and not just cost cutting. Tom Worley stkguru@netside.net AIM: TexWorley ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rob Miller=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? Rich, Sorry for the long winded answer...but...as you know, DGO only = includes banks and funds. They exclude institutional sponsors, pension = funds, endowments, etc. Bank and fund holdings tend to be more volatile = which is why I think DGO includes them. Institutional sponsors will = often hold stocks for political or other reasons. For example, an = endowment may hold the stock of a company that they have some = relationship with, or a investment management company may hold a stock = because a wealthy client has directed them to do so. These holdings = tend to change much less frequently. As for TALX, the reason for the = abrupt change in ownership appears to be that their venture capitalist, = HLM Management, sold all their holdings. At the end of the third = quarter, HLM owned almost 27.5% of the stock, all of which was sold by = year end. This is not uncommon. Venture capitalist firms are strong = holders while they wait for their hand to play out, but once their = objectives are met, they're gone. It would be better if DGO included some institutional sponsors. A = fund company like Janus could own 1 million shares total, but only = 100,000 shares in retail mutual funds. The rest would be in separately = managed (private) accounts, which would not show up on DGO. Alas, that = would be asking too much. =20 Rob =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rich W=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what is to much ownership?? Rob, I do have DGO and here is what they show today Funds 13%, Banks 8 %, and Mgmt 12% I just went back to Market guide and now they show 67% with 3.5m = sold since last report. this in 10 days ( not sure when this took place). MSN also shows about the same now, but also showed big % on the 15th when I wrote to DGO as to why they had so much smaller numbers, they said they do not include as much ( can not find the answer now, was = from the 15th). So I am not sure who to check for ownership, but it does show one = must check more than one source for the facts. the stock is TALX, a St.Louis Co. - ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C1BF06.76309950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I much prefer from 0% to 10% funds ownership. I = never=20 consider bank ownership, as I have found that they are often the proxy = owner for=20 otherwise unidentified holders. Occasionally, I will look at ownership = by=20 venture capitalists and pension funds.
 
I have very rarely bought a stock with funds = ownership=20 over 20-30% ownership, and usually then only because management had a = very large=20 stake (often 50-60%) leaving very few shares in the float (thus = exaggerating the=20 funds ownership percentage).
 
Even DGO's 13% funds ownership is quite high on = a company=20 with only 13.9 million shares outstanding.
 
I also note that sales growth seems slight = compared to the=20 large growth in earnings. Company has forecasted Q4 results (ending = March) which=20 continues this pattern. I would want to be sure this represents a shift = to=20 higher margin products and not just cost cutting.
 
Tom Worley
stkguru@netside.net
AIM:=20 TexWorley
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Rob=20 Miller
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, = 2002 7:45=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what is = to much=20 ownership??

Rich,
 
Sorry for the long winded = answer...but...as you=20 know, DGO only includes banks and funds.  They exclude = institutional=20 sponsors, pension funds, endowments, etc.  Bank and fund holdings = tend to=20 be more volatile which is why I think DGO includes them.  = Institutional=20 sponsors will often hold stocks for political or other reasons.  = For=20 example, an endowment may hold the stock of a company that = they have=20 some relationship with, or a investment management company may hold a = stock=20 because a wealthy client has directed them to do so.  These = holdings tend=20 to change much less frequently.  As for TALX, the reason for = the=20 abrupt change in ownership appears to be that their venture=20 capitalist, HLM Management, sold all their holdings.  At the = end of=20 the third quarter, HLM owned almost 27.5% of the stock, all = of which=20 was sold by year end.  This is not uncommon.  Venture = capitalist=20 firms are strong holders while they wait for their hand to = play out,=20 but once their objectives are met, they're gone.
 
It would be better if DGO included = some=20 institutional sponsors.  A fund company like Janus = could own 1=20 million shares total, but only 100,000 shares in retail mutual = funds. =20 The rest would be in separately managed (private) accounts, which = would not=20 show up on DGO.  Alas, that would be asking too=20 much.    
 
Rob  
 
      
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Rich W=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, = 2002 6:02=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] what = is to much=20 ownership??

Rob,
I do have DGO and here is = what they=20 show today
Funds 13%, Banks 8 %, and = Mgmt=20 12%
I just went back to = Market guide and=20 now they show 67% with 3.5m sold since last report.
this in 10 days ( not = sure when this=20 took place).
MSN also shows about the = same now,=20 but also showed big % on the 15th
when I wrote to DGO as to = why they=20 had so much smaller numbers, they
said they do not include = as much (=20 can not find the answer now, was from the 15th).
So I am not sure who to = check for=20 ownership, but it does show one must check more
than one source for the=20 facts.
the stock is TALX, a = St.Louis=20 Co.
 
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