From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #2547 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Sunday, June 30 2002 Volume 02 : Number 2547 In this issue: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new recruits Re: [CANSLIM] lighter side of corp deception RE: [CANSLIM] Too much information in IBD Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new recruits ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 14:34:55 -0500 From: Gene Ricci Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new recruits This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00E4_01C22043.4D85FEC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've tried but I can't help but ask.... Is it the 'one' that shows you the 'loop hole' or the one that uses it = the guilty one? Does anyone believe that Enron didn't know what Anderson = was doing? It's more than likely Enron asked for the different scenarios = and then proceeded to 'cook the books'.... and got Anderson to 'bless' = them. I don't, in any way, condone the actions of the = companies/management/staff of those involved. But I do say that cheating = is bad.... what's the difference in cheating on one's own income tax = versus a company doing it.....=20 I have a dear friend (retired tax accountant) and love to sit over a = beer and listen to his tales of his former clients who gave him the = bottom line and told him to fill in the details... see, they didn't want = to pay the taxes that they owed but what they thought was enough.... I = also have 2 friends that lost their jobs at Anderson and they're both = God fearing men, great fathers, good husbands and dear friends.... I see = none of the sleaze that Anderson folks are reported to have... Have a good summer, Gene ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tom Worley=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new recruits jans, I didn't get the impression that Dave was trying to excuse or allow unethical or illegal conduct by Andersen employees. Rather, I took his = post to provide more background on how these "fresh from the classroom = training environment" people could be convinced to do things differently, and = against what they had been taught. I clearly remember studying celestial = navigation at sea, and having to produce a position accurate to within 2 nautical miles. When I asked why such accuracy in deep open waters, I was told = simply that they (the instructors) realized that in the real world I would = get sloppy, so if they started me at 2 miles, even with slop I still could = put the ship within 5 miles of where it really was, and that would still = be acceptable. The guidance given by Andersen auditors to major corps, or the false = or misleading bookkeeping that they signed off on, goes to corporate = practice and policy of Andersen, starting right at the partners level. Probably = for some distance down in the organization, people clearly knew (or at = least were questioning if) they were doing wrong. But further down in the organization, people may have been confused, but accepted that it was = ok because it was directed by people they trusted, and who had been = auditing many more years than they had. Accountability must start at the very top, they can't be allowed to = escape the damage done, not just with the Worldcoms and Enrons and Sunbeams = and Waste Managements and Global Crossings, but to the entire financial institution and its accounting system. The pattern is clear, and has = been clear for some years. It would be false, tragic even, if the partners = escape by claiming lack of knowledge of what was going on, it is obvious to = me that what was happening was normal corporate policy, directed right from = the top of the organization. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new recruits David: Although this is not Canslim, since your remark was posted on the CANSLIM forum, I feel I should post my answer here: Those poor little boys and girls. My heart bleeds for them. It = is not their fault that they do something unscrupulous (no more than it was = the fault of those who taught them the "Anderson" way-after all the tutors = were themselves taught to be unethical by their own unscrupulous Anderson teachers-and no doubt they were as impressionably callow as the = 1987-year people. Of course, this could go on ad infinitum). So long as you allow people to be unethical and unlawful by = excusing their unethical and illegal behavior, you are going to get more of it-especially if the crime costs less than the probability that the = crime will be punished through condemnation and jail time. After all, a baby isn't born good; he/she has to be taught to do = the right thing. However, apparently, all this learning falls by the = wayside once Anderson-like training centers get their diabolical hands on the "kids". Those poor impressionable youngsters-as a result of the training = they've received from the demon Anderson guys-cannot remember the difference = between right and wrong. What Balderdash. These are NOT children. If one continues to treat adults like = children by making excuses for their unethical behavior, then this population = will become nothing but a nation of whining miscreants. Just, by the way, = what we need now to fight terrorists and terrorism. jans In a message dated 6/29/2002 10:53:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dfcameron@yahoo.com writes: << In 1987, I started my professional career in Chicago. I was 24 years old, new to Chicago. I wanted to learn my way around, make some new friends, etc.... much like young people new to an area will. My company was located close to Arthur Andersen's training center (which is really about 40 miles west of Chicago - but in the Chicago metro area). I had the chance to meet several Andersen recruits. These were young men and women who were (usually) fresh out of school, eager to make their mark, and new to the ways of business. Their story (told independently by several people over the next several months) told of a boot camp like environment, with 70+ hour weeks, continual indoctrination in "the Andersen way" and even lodging together during stretches. The company I worked for had no such thing. Only years later did I realize that Andersen's approach was to get these people out of college before they knew what other companies did, work them very hard, and get them well indoctrinated. Many left once they got some experience, but many stayed on - only knowing what Andersen taught as THE way business should be run. In retrospect, I suspect that some of the shady dealings by senior members of Andersen were just drummed in to young impressionable people as "that's the way things are done in business". Again, take this for what its worth. I didn't go through it. I have a friend who I still keep in touch with who worked for Arthur Andersen Co. in Chicago. This was also 15 years ago. But... maybe it sheds some light on how things got they way they are. >> - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_00E4_01C22043.4D85FEC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've tried but I can't help but=20 ask....
 
Is it the 'one' that shows you the = 'loop hole'=20 or the one that uses it the guilty one? Does anyone believe that Enron = didn't=20 know what Anderson was doing? It's more than likely Enron asked for = the=20 different scenarios and then proceeded to 'cook the books'.... and got = Anderson=20 to 'bless' them.  I don't, in any way, condone the = actions of the=20 companies/management/staff of those involved. But I do say = that cheating is=20 bad.... what's the difference in cheating on one's own income tax versus = a=20 company doing it..... 
 
I have a dear friend (retired tax = accountant)=20 and love to sit over a beer and listen to his tales of his former = clients who=20 gave him the bottom line and told him to fill in the details... see, = they didn't=20 want to pay the taxes that they owed but what they thought was = enough.... I also=20 have 2 friends that lost their jobs at Anderson and they're both God = fearing=20 men, great fathers, good husbands and dear friends.... I see none of the = sleaze=20 that Anderson folks are reported to have...
 
Have a good summer,
Gene
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tom=20 Worley
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 = 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen = - - what=20 happens to new recruits

jans,

I didn't get the impression that Dave was = trying=20 to excuse or allow
unethical or illegal conduct by Andersen = employees.=20 Rather, I took his post
to provide more background on how these = "fresh from=20 the classroom training
environment" people could be convinced to do = things=20 differently, and against
what they had been taught. I clearly = remember=20 studying celestial navigation
at sea, and having to produce a = position=20 accurate to within 2 nautical
miles. When I asked why such accuracy = in deep=20 open waters, I was told simply
that they (the instructors) realized = that in=20 the real world I would get
sloppy, so if they started me at 2 = miles, even=20 with slop I still could put
the ship within 5 miles of where it = really was,=20 and that would still be
acceptable.

The guidance given by = Andersen=20 auditors to major corps, or the false or
misleading bookkeeping = that they=20 signed off on, goes to corporate practice
and policy of Andersen, = starting=20 right at the partners level. Probably for
some distance down in the = organization, people clearly knew (or at least
were questioning if) = they=20 were doing wrong. But further down in the
organization, people may = have=20 been confused, but accepted that it was ok
because it was directed = by=20 people they trusted, and who had been auditing
many more years than = they=20 had.

Accountability must start at the very top, they can't be = allowed=20 to escape
the damage done, not just with the Worldcoms and Enrons = and=20 Sunbeams and
Waste Managements and Global Crossings, but to the = entire=20 financial
institution and its accounting system. The pattern is = clear, and=20 has been
clear for some years. It would be false, tragic even, if = the=20 partners escape
by claiming lack of knowledge of what was going on, = it is=20 obvious to me that
what was happening was normal corporate policy, = directed=20 right from the top
of the organization.

----- Original = Message=20 -----
From: <Spencer48@aol.com>
To: = <canslim@lists.xmission.com= >
Sent:=20 Sunday, June 30, 2002 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - = what=20 happens to new = recruits


David:

    =20 Although this is not Canslim, since your remark was posted on = the
CANSLIM=20 forum, I feel I should post my answer = here:

    =20 Those poor little boys and girls.  My heart bleeds for = them.  It is=20 not
their fault that they do something unscrupulous (no more than = it was=20 the
fault of those who taught them the "Anderson" way-after all the = tutors=20 were
themselves taught to be unethical by their own unscrupulous=20 Anderson
teachers-and no doubt they were as impressionably callow = as the=20 1987-year
people.  Of course, this could go on ad=20 infinitum).

     So long as you allow = people to be=20 unethical and unlawful by excusing
their unethical and illegal = behavior,=20 you are going to get more of
it-especially if the crime costs less = than the=20 probability that the crime
will be punished through condemnation = and jail=20 time.

     After all, a baby isn't born = good;=20 he/she has to be taught to do the
right thing.  However, = apparently,=20 all this learning falls by the wayside
once Anderson-like training = centers=20 get their diabolical hands on the
"kids".
 Those poor=20 impressionable youngsters-as a result of the training = they've
received from=20 the demon Anderson guys-cannot remember the difference = between
right and=20 wrong.  What Balderdash.

     These = are NOT=20 children.  If one continues to treat adults like children
by = making=20 excuses for their unethical behavior, then this population = will
become=20 nothing but a nation of whining miscreants.  Just, by the way,=20 what
we
need now to fight terrorists and=20 terrorism.

jans

In a message dated 6/29/2002 10:53:38 PM = Eastern=20 Daylight Time,
dfcameron@yahoo.com=20 writes:

<< In 1987, I started my professional career in=20 Chicago.   I was 24
 years old, new to = Chicago.  =20 I wanted to learn my way around, make
 some new friends, = etc.... much=20 like young people new to an area will.
   My company was = located=20 close to Arthur Andersen's training center
 (which is really = about 40=20 miles west of Chicago - but in the Chicago
 metro = area).   I=20 had the chance to meet several Andersen recruits.
 These were = young=20 men and women who were (usually) fresh out of
 school, eager = to make=20 their mark, and new to the ways of business.
 Their story = (told=20 independently by several people over the next
 several months) = told of=20 a boot camp like environment, with 70+ hour
 weeks, continual=20 indoctrination in "the Andersen way" and even
 lodging = together during=20 stretches.

 The company I worked for had no such=20 thing.   Only years later did I
 realize that = Andersen's=20 approach was to get these people out of
 college before they = knew what=20 other companies did, work them very
 hard, and get them well=20 indoctrinated.   Many left once they got = some
 experience,=20 but many stayed on - only knowing what Andersen taught as
 THE = way=20 business should be run.

 In retrospect, I suspect that = some of the=20 shady dealings by senior
 members of Andersen were just = drummed in to=20 young impressionable
 people as "that's the way things are = done in=20 business".

 Again, take this for what its = worth.   I=20 didn't go through it.  I
 have a friend who I still keep = in touch=20 with who worked for Arthur
 Andersen Co. in = Chicago.   This=20 was also 15 years ago.   But... maybe
 it sheds some = light=20 on how things got they way they are.
  = >>

-
-To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In= the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe = canslim".  Do=20 not use quotes in your email.



-
-To = subscribe/unsubscribe,=20 email "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In= the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe = canslim".  Do=20 not use quotes in your email.
- ------=_NextPart_000_00E4_01C22043.4D85FEC0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:15:12 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] lighter side of corp deception I love it, Ernie, best laugh in days, thanks - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hill, Ernie" To: Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:17 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] lighter side of corp deception REMAINING U.S. CEOs MAKE A BREAK FOR IT-- Band of Roving Chief Executives Spotted Miles from Mexican Border San Antonio, Texas(Reuters) - Unwilling to wait for their eventual indictments, the 10,000 remaining CEOs of public U.S. companies made a break for it yesterday, heading for the Mexican border, plundering towns and villages along the way, and writing the entire rampage off as a marketing expense. "They came into my home, made me pay for my own TV, then double-booked the revenues," said Rachel Sanchez of Las Cruces, just north of El Paso. "Right in front of my daughters." Calling themselves the CEOnistas, the chief executives were first spotted last night along the Rio Grande River near Quemado, where they bought each of the town's 320 residents by borrowing against pension fund gains. By late this morning, the CEOnistas had arbitrarily inflated Quemado's population to 960, and declared a 200 percent profit for the fiscal second quarter. This morning, the outlaws bought the city of Waco, transferred its under performing areas to a private partnership, and sent a bill to California for $4.5 billion. Law enforcement officials and disgruntled shareholders riding posse were noticeably frustrated. "First of all, they're very hard to find because they always stand behind their numbers, and the numbers keep shifting," said posse spokesman Dean Levitt. "And every time we yell 'Stop in the name of the shareholders!', they refer us to investor relations. I've been on the phone all damn morning." "YOU'LL NEVER AUDIT ME ALIVE!" The pursuers said they have had some success, however, by preying on a common executive weakness. "Last night we caught about 24 of them by disguising one of our female officers as a CNBC anchor," said U.S. Border Patrol spokesperson Janet Lewis. "It was like moths to a flame." Also, teams of agents have been using high-powered listening devices to scan the plains for telltale sounds of the CEOnistas. "Most of the time we just hear leaves rustling or cattle flicking their tails," said Lewis, "but occasionally we'll pick up someone saying, 'I was totally out of the loop on that.'" Among former and current CEOs apprehended with this method were Computer Associates' Sanjay Kumar, Adelphia's John Rigas, Enron's Ken Lay, Joseph Nacchio of Qwest, Joseph Berardino of Arthur Andersen, and every Global Crossing CEO since 1997. ImClone Systems' Sam Waksal and Dennis Kozlowski of Tyco were not allowed to join the CEOnistas as they have already been indicted. So far, about 50 chief executives have been captured, including Martha Stewart, who was detained south of El Paso where she had cut through a barbed-wire fence at the Zaragosa border crossing off Highway 375. "She would have gotten away, but she was stopping motorists to ask for marzipan and food coloring so she could make edible snowman place settings, using the cut pieces of wire for the arms," said Border Patrol officer Jennette Cushing. "We put her in cell No. 7, because the morning sun really adds texture to the stucco walls." While some stragglers are believed to have successfully crossed into Mexico, Cushing said the bulk of the CEOnistas have holed themselves up at the Alamo. "No, not the fort, the car rental place at the airport," she said. "They're rotating all the tires on the minivans and accounting for each change as a sale." ****************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it from the ElPaso Corporation are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. ****************************************************************** - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:46:55 -0600 From: "David Taggart" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] Too much information in IBD This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C21EAA.44448510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I personally like all the features but only use a few of them. I mostly just read the paper. I like the weekend review every friday and if it a good investors corner I save it. I have dailygraphs and other computer stuff so I dont use all the features like I used to. I like the newspaper part where they cover companies and industries because they usually focus on the smaller cap names instead of another damn article on MSFT. David Taggart -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Kelly Short Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 1:42 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: [CANSLIM] Too much information in IBD I recently started reviewing the "Screen of the Day" on the IBD website everyday. It's a lot of information to digest and certainly there are too many companies to perform a detailed analysis of each one on each list. I welcome any comments on how you personally find this, and other lists, useful and how you prioritize the myriad information found on the IBD site/print edition. Kelly - ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C21EAA.44448510 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I=20 personally like all the features but only use a few of them.  I = mostly just=20 read the paper.  I like the weekend review every friday and if it a = good=20 investors corner I save it.  I have dailygraphs and other computer = stuff so=20 I dont use all the features like I used to.  I like the = newspaper part=20 where they cover companies and industries because they usually focus on = the=20 smaller cap names instead of another damn article on = MSFT.
 
David=20 Taggart
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Kelly=20 Short
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 1:42 PM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: [CANSLIM] Too much = information=20 in IBD

I=20 recently started reviewing the "Screen of the Day" on the IBD website=20 everyday. It's a lot of information to digest and certainly there are = too many=20 companies to perform a detailed analysis of each one on each list. I = welcome=20 any comments on how you personally find this, and other lists, useful = and how=20 you prioritize the myriad information found on the IBD site/print=20 edition.
 
Kelly
- ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C21EAA.44448510-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 16:11:31 -0400 From: "Tom Worley" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new recruits This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0123_01C22050.CC5B1930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the case of both Enron and Worldcom, it appears that the intent was = to hide debt and losses from both shareholders and analysts. In the case = of Enron, also looks to me like they were hiding profits that should = have gone to shareholders, and instead were quietly shunted off to the = limited partners. So the "intent" to me in these two cases appears = deceitful, and thus wrong, on the part of both (Andersen organized the = tactic, so they knew the intent as well).=20 On the other hand, if a CFO relied on the advice of an outside auditor, = without ill intent or knowledge of it being wrong, then the auditor = bears the burden of ignorance at a minimum, and possible illegality as = well. - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gene Ricci=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new recruits I've tried but I can't help but ask.... Is it the 'one' that shows you the 'loop hole' or the one that uses it = the guilty one? Does anyone believe that Enron didn't know what Anderson = was doing? It's more than likely Enron asked for the different scenarios = and then proceeded to 'cook the books'.... and got Anderson to 'bless' = them. I don't, in any way, condone the actions of the = companies/management/staff of those involved. But I do say that cheating = is bad.... what's the difference in cheating on one's own income tax = versus a company doing it.....=20 I have a dear friend (retired tax accountant) and love to sit over a = beer and listen to his tales of his former clients who gave him the = bottom line and told him to fill in the details... see, they didn't want = to pay the taxes that they owed but what they thought was enough.... I = also have 2 friends that lost their jobs at Anderson and they're both = God fearing men, great fathers, good husbands and dear friends.... I see = none of the sleaze that Anderson folks are reported to have... Have a good summer, Gene ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tom Worley=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new recruits jans, I didn't get the impression that Dave was trying to excuse or allow unethical or illegal conduct by Andersen employees. Rather, I took his = post to provide more background on how these "fresh from the classroom = training environment" people could be convinced to do things differently, and = against what they had been taught. I clearly remember studying celestial = navigation at sea, and having to produce a position accurate to within 2 nautical miles. When I asked why such accuracy in deep open waters, I was told = simply that they (the instructors) realized that in the real world I would = get sloppy, so if they started me at 2 miles, even with slop I still could = put the ship within 5 miles of where it really was, and that would still = be acceptable. The guidance given by Andersen auditors to major corps, or the false = or misleading bookkeeping that they signed off on, goes to corporate = practice and policy of Andersen, starting right at the partners level. Probably = for some distance down in the organization, people clearly knew (or at = least were questioning if) they were doing wrong. But further down in the organization, people may have been confused, but accepted that it was = ok because it was directed by people they trusted, and who had been = auditing many more years than they had. Accountability must start at the very top, they can't be allowed to = escape the damage done, not just with the Worldcoms and Enrons and Sunbeams = and Waste Managements and Global Crossings, but to the entire financial institution and its accounting system. The pattern is clear, and has = been clear for some years. It would be false, tragic even, if the partners = escape by claiming lack of knowledge of what was going on, it is obvious to = me that what was happening was normal corporate policy, directed right from = the top of the organization. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new recruits David: Although this is not Canslim, since your remark was posted on the CANSLIM forum, I feel I should post my answer here: Those poor little boys and girls. My heart bleeds for them. It = is not their fault that they do something unscrupulous (no more than it was = the fault of those who taught them the "Anderson" way-after all the tutors = were themselves taught to be unethical by their own unscrupulous Anderson teachers-and no doubt they were as impressionably callow as the = 1987-year people. Of course, this could go on ad infinitum). So long as you allow people to be unethical and unlawful by = excusing their unethical and illegal behavior, you are going to get more of it-especially if the crime costs less than the probability that the = crime will be punished through condemnation and jail time. After all, a baby isn't born good; he/she has to be taught to do = the right thing. However, apparently, all this learning falls by the = wayside once Anderson-like training centers get their diabolical hands on the "kids". Those poor impressionable youngsters-as a result of the training = they've received from the demon Anderson guys-cannot remember the difference = between right and wrong. What Balderdash. These are NOT children. If one continues to treat adults like = children by making excuses for their unethical behavior, then this population = will become nothing but a nation of whining miscreants. Just, by the way, = what we need now to fight terrorists and terrorism. jans In a message dated 6/29/2002 10:53:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dfcameron@yahoo.com writes: << In 1987, I started my professional career in Chicago. I was 24 years old, new to Chicago. I wanted to learn my way around, make some new friends, etc.... much like young people new to an area will. My company was located close to Arthur Andersen's training center (which is really about 40 miles west of Chicago - but in the Chicago metro area). I had the chance to meet several Andersen recruits. These were young men and women who were (usually) fresh out of school, eager to make their mark, and new to the ways of business. Their story (told independently by several people over the next several months) told of a boot camp like environment, with 70+ hour weeks, continual indoctrination in "the Andersen way" and even lodging together during stretches. The company I worked for had no such thing. Only years later did I realize that Andersen's approach was to get these people out of college before they knew what other companies did, work them very hard, and get them well indoctrinated. Many left once they got some experience, but many stayed on - only knowing what Andersen taught as THE way business should be run. In retrospect, I suspect that some of the shady dealings by senior members of Andersen were just drummed in to young impressionable people as "that's the way things are done in business". Again, take this for what its worth. I didn't go through it. I have a friend who I still keep in touch with who worked for Arthur Andersen Co. in Chicago. This was also 15 years ago. But... maybe it sheds some light on how things got they way they are. >> - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_0123_01C22050.CC5B1930 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In the case of both Enron and Worldcom, it = appears that=20 the intent was to hide debt and losses from both shareholders and = analysts. In=20 the case of Enron, also looks to me like they were hiding profits that = should=20 have gone to shareholders, and instead were quietly shunted off to the = limited=20 partners. So the "intent" to me in these two cases appears deceitful, = and thus=20 wrong, on the part of both (Andersen organized the tactic, so they knew = the=20 intent as well).
 
On the other hand, if a CFO relied on the advice = of an=20 outside auditor, without ill intent or knowledge of it being wrong, then = the=20 auditor bears the burden of ignorance at a minimum, and possible = illegality as=20 well.
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Gene Ricci =
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - what happens to new=20 recruits

I've tried but I can't help but=20 ask....
 
Is it the 'one' that shows you the = 'loop hole'=20 or the one that uses it the guilty one? Does anyone believe that Enron = didn't=20 know what Anderson was doing? It's more than likely Enron asked for = the=20 different scenarios and then proceeded to 'cook the books'.... and got = Anderson=20 to 'bless' them.  I don't, in any way, condone the = actions of the=20 companies/management/staff of those involved. But I do say = that cheating is=20 bad.... what's the difference in cheating on one's own income tax versus = a=20 company doing it..... 
 
I have a dear friend (retired tax = accountant)=20 and love to sit over a beer and listen to his tales of his former = clients who=20 gave him the bottom line and told him to fill in the details... see, = they didn't=20 want to pay the taxes that they owed but what they thought was = enough.... I also=20 have 2 friends that lost their jobs at Anderson and they're both God = fearing=20 men, great fathers, good husbands and dear friends.... I see none of the = sleaze=20 that Anderson folks are reported to have...
 
Have a good summer,
Gene
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tom=20 Worley
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 = 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen = - - what=20 happens to new recruits

jans,

I didn't get the impression that Dave was = trying=20 to excuse or allow
unethical or illegal conduct by Andersen = employees.=20 Rather, I took his post
to provide more background on how these = "fresh from=20 the classroom training
environment" people could be convinced to do = things=20 differently, and against
what they had been taught. I clearly = remember=20 studying celestial navigation
at sea, and having to produce a = position=20 accurate to within 2 nautical
miles. When I asked why such accuracy = in deep=20 open waters, I was told simply
that they (the instructors) realized = that in=20 the real world I would get
sloppy, so if they started me at 2 = miles, even=20 with slop I still could put
the ship within 5 miles of where it = really was,=20 and that would still be
acceptable.

The guidance given by = Andersen=20 auditors to major corps, or the false or
misleading bookkeeping = that they=20 signed off on, goes to corporate practice
and policy of Andersen, = starting=20 right at the partners level. Probably for
some distance down in the = organization, people clearly knew (or at least
were questioning if) = they=20 were doing wrong. But further down in the
organization, people may = have=20 been confused, but accepted that it was ok
because it was directed = by=20 people they trusted, and who had been auditing
many more years than = they=20 had.

Accountability must start at the very top, they can't be = allowed=20 to escape
the damage done, not just with the Worldcoms and Enrons = and=20 Sunbeams and
Waste Managements and Global Crossings, but to the = entire=20 financial
institution and its accounting system. The pattern is = clear, and=20 has been
clear for some years. It would be false, tragic even, if = the=20 partners escape
by claiming lack of knowledge of what was going on, = it is=20 obvious to me that
what was happening was normal corporate policy, = directed=20 right from the top
of the organization.

----- Original = Message=20 -----
From: <Spencer48@aol.com>
To: = <canslim@lists.xmission.com= >
Sent:=20 Sunday, June 30, 2002 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Andersen - = what=20 happens to new = recruits


David:

    =20 Although this is not Canslim, since your remark was posted on = the
CANSLIM=20 forum, I feel I should post my answer = here:

    =20 Those poor little boys and girls.  My heart bleeds for = them.  It is=20 not
their fault that they do something unscrupulous (no more than = it was=20 the
fault of those who taught them the "Anderson" way-after all the = tutors=20 were
themselves taught to be unethical by their own unscrupulous=20 Anderson
teachers-and no doubt they were as impressionably callow = as the=20 1987-year
people.  Of course, this could go on ad=20 infinitum).

     So long as you allow = people to be=20 unethical and unlawful by excusing
their unethical and illegal = behavior,=20 you are going to get more of
it-especially if the crime costs less = than the=20 probability that the crime
will be punished through condemnation = and jail=20 time.

     After all, a baby isn't born = good;=20 he/she has to be taught to do the
right thing.  However, = apparently,=20 all this learning falls by the wayside
once Anderson-like training = centers=20 get their diabolical hands on the
"kids".
 Those poor=20 impressionable youngsters-as a result of the training = they've
received from=20 the demon Anderson guys-cannot remember the difference = between
right and=20 wrong.  What Balderdash.

     These = are NOT=20 children.  If one continues to treat adults like children
by = making=20 excuses for their unethical behavior, then this population = will
become=20 nothing but a nation of whining miscreants.  Just, by the way,=20 what
we
need now to fight terrorists and=20 terrorism.

jans

In a message dated 6/29/2002 10:53:38 PM = Eastern=20 Daylight Time,
dfcameron@yahoo.com=20 writes:

<< In 1987, I started my professional career in=20 Chicago.   I was 24
 years old, new to = Chicago.  =20 I wanted to learn my way around, make
 some new friends, = etc.... much=20 like young people new to an area will.
   My company was = located=20 close to Arthur Andersen's training center
 (which is really = about 40=20 miles west of Chicago - but in the Chicago
 metro = area).   I=20 had the chance to meet several Andersen recruits.
 These were = young=20 men and women who were (usually) fresh out of
 school, eager = to make=20 their mark, and new to the ways of business.
 Their story = (told=20 independently by several people over the next
 several months) = told of=20 a boot camp like environment, with 70+ hour
 weeks, continual=20 indoctrination in "the Andersen way" and even
 lodging = together during=20 stretches.

 The company I worked for had no such=20 thing.   Only years later did I
 realize that = Andersen's=20 approach was to get these people out of
 college before they = knew what=20 other companies did, work them very
 hard, and get them well=20 indoctrinated.   Many left once they got = some
 experience,=20 but many stayed on - only knowing what Andersen taught as
 THE = way=20 business should be run.

 In retrospect, I suspect that = some of the=20 shady dealings by senior
 members of Andersen were just = drummed in to=20 young impressionable
 people as "that's the way things are = done in=20 business".

 Again, take this for what its = worth.   I=20 didn't go through it.  I
 have a friend who I still keep = in touch=20 with who worked for Arthur
 Andersen Co. in = Chicago.   This=20 was also 15 years ago.   But... maybe
 it sheds some = light=20 on how things got they way they are.
  = >>

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