From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #2917 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Saturday, September 7 2002 Volume 02 : Number 2917 In this issue: [CANSLIM] The Acc/Dis Charts from IBD have been updated. [CANSLIM] Lurkers and Wedges Re: [CANSLIM] Lurkers and Wedges Re: [CANSLIM] DLX [CANSLIM] down vs. up volume [CANSLIM] VMF Re: [CANSLIM] VMF Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 06:43:11 -0500 From: "Fred Richards" Subject: [CANSLIM] The Acc/Dis Charts from IBD have been updated. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C25639.D54E5380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Acc/Dis charts from IBD through Friday have been updated. They show that the downward trend of this market is still intact and that the institutions are backing away from the market. http://www.adrich.com/SI/Info/A's.htm - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Fred Richards Corruptisima republica plurimae leges. [The more corrupt a republic, the more laws.] - - Tacitus, Annuals III 27 www.adrich.com - ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C25639.D54E5380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The = Acc/Dis charts=20 from IBD through Friday have been updated. 
 
They = show that the=20 downward trend of this market is still intact and that the institutions = are=20 backing away from the market.
 
http://www.adrich.com/SI/I= nfo/A's.htm
 
Fred Richards
 
Corruptisima republica plurimae = leges.  [The=20 more corrupt a republic, the more laws.]  - - Tacitus, Annuals III=20 27
 
www.adrich.com
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C25639.D54E5380-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 07:52:15 -0500 From: "Norman" Subject: [CANSLIM] Lurkers and Wedges Katherine, Do you recognize today's Ask Bill O'Neil topic from a recent conversation here Our lurker's been busy again. At least they are covering good topics. Recently, an Investor's Corner said, "Handles that wedge higher on low volume suggest weak demand for a stock." Does that mean that handles that wedge higher on high volume suggest strong demand for the stock and are OK to buy? Norm - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 08:04:16 -0500 From: "Katherine Malm" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Lurkers and Wedges Hah...pretty funny.... recent separate topics here have covered "handle characteristics" and "wedging" action.... though I don't believe we've actually talked about "wedging action in the handle" recently. At least they're connecting the dots and bringing up a new topic! Nice. Katherine - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman" To: Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 7:52 AM Subject: [CANSLIM] Lurkers and Wedges | Katherine, | | Do you recognize today's Ask Bill O'Neil topic from a recent conversation | here Our lurker's been busy again. At least they are covering good | topics. | | | | Recently, an Investor's Corner said, "Handles that wedge higher on low | volume suggest weak demand for a stock." Does that mean that handles that | wedge higher on high volume suggest strong demand for the stock and are OK | to buy? | | | | | Norm | | | - | -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" | -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or | -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 09:46:35 -0600 From: Warren Keuffel Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] DLX I made good money last year in DLX riding the LLUR pattern, then it rolled over and I bailed. Maybe it's ready to resume its winning ways... Warren Norman wrote: > As I sit here waiting to see if TS Fay will be a hurricane before it hits us > tomorrow, I'm hoping to not need my *check* book. And then right here on my > computer appeared this unassuming little chart of DLX (the personal check > makers). > > Good looking chart with the typical July *V* bottom cup. The right side has > some decent vol (for a company with such boring and less-than-impressive > fundamentals) and the handle is on lower vol and not dipping too much (I > hate when they do that!). And the tight trading range will make it much > easier to hold onto for those holding. Investors.com has it #1 in it's > group (sounds like a dialog from M*A*S*H: "the best ballet dancer in > Galveston"). I wouldn't think, with consumer confidence low, that checks > would be in great demand. > > Anyway, anyone else see this one? Any thoughts? > > Norm > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 12:05:45 -0600 From: "rolf hertenstein" Subject: [CANSLIM] down vs. up volume A couple of months ago I heard somebody somewhere (sorry for the lack of specifics - can't remember) mention that previous 'big' bears had several days with down volume on the NYSE trumping up volume by an order of magnitude. Thus far, we'd had none, and that somebody took it as a sign that we had not had 'final' capitulation. I noted last Tuesday's dump had down/up volume > 10; the first such day I'd seen. I conclude nothing from this - just found it as a noteworthy data point. Rolf - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 18:19:22 -0500 From: "Norman" Subject: [CANSLIM] VMF What is going on with this action? Seems to do the "tails up" thing an awful (pun intended) lot. Norm - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 18:37:27 -0500 From: "Norman" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] VMF OK, OK, must have been my keyboard getting revenge on me. Try VMV:-) Norm - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman" To: Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 6:19 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] VMF > What is going on with this action? Seems to do the "tails up" thing an > awful (pun intended) lot. > > Norm > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 19:26:32 -0500 From: "david frank" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C256A4.78C77CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Market orders will execute, if the market is open, and guarantees an = execution but not a price. Stop orders becomes a market order if the = stock trades at or through the stop price, thus, will execute. The limit = order is not guaranteed to execute inside the price of the limit. But if = executed the price you set or better is guaranteed. The stop limit order = becomes a limit order when the stock hits the stop price. Since the stop = limit order is a combination of a stop order and a limit order, again it = is not guaranteed to execute inside the price of the limit. The market = order is the priority order and a limit order maybe a secondary order. = In other words, any limit order may or may not execute inside your price = limit. And shall not execute outside your price limit. I believe in the = first post, Warren was asking about buy stop limit orders. and in my = first post I mentioned stop orders, left out limit, which i tried to = correct in my 2nd post. I have seen many times the price goes up on a = stock, inside my stock price limit, thinking it will execute at any = second, then going through the price limit without executing, especially = on the listed markets, which always take time to get market execution = verifications back. Then you call your friendly broker. and you say, = hey, why didn't my stock execute? And they will reply, hey, you had a = limit order, your stock doesn't have to execute. That is their out. no = recourse. That specialist might have taken your order at your good price = and the stock is higher and now it's his order at a profit. The reverse = may be true of sell orders. Dave ----- Original Message -----=20 From: NANCY POLCARO=20 To: canslim=20 Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? Thanks Tom-you dont have a chart to go with that do you-(haha) nancy=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Worley Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 7:25 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? Nancy, a stop order converts to a market order (wherever the market = is then). A stop LIMIT order converts to a LIMIT order (again, wherever = the market is). So if the stop price is hit by a big gap, then the stop = order becomes a market, and naturally executes, altho at a price that = may be a real surprise. A stop LIMIT order, because it now is a LIMIT = order, may not execute if the market moved outside of the LIMIT range. Example: you find an absolutely perfect, classic, textbook cup and = handle. Can't find a single thing wrong with either the chart or its = fundamentals, even after exhaustive hours of due diligence (ok, I admit = it, I like to fantasize). You determine that the perfect pivot point is exactly $25.20, so you = enter a Buy Stop order at $25.30. Your friend, however, enters a Buy = Stop LIMIT order at Buy Stop $25.30, LIMIT $26.46 (5% over the pivot). = Shortly before the open, the company announces that it has accepted a = cash buyout at $29, and the stock gaps to that price (or higher, or just = under) as the shorts immediately cover. Your buy is executed at around = $29, and the best you can hope for is to sell at a breakeven, if you are = lucky cover transaction costs. Your friend's order never executes = because of the LIMIT and is able to simply cancel the order when the = news is discovered. Exactly the same thing can happen on a Sell Stop / Sell Stop LIMIT = order. A stop order means you take what the market gives you, and can be = triggered when the volume might have kept you out of the trade entirely. = A stop LIMIT order means you may never get an execution, but may have a = second chance to evaluate the situation, and change the order, or cancel = it entirely. As one further comment, many firms still will not accept Stop LIMIT = orders on NASDAQ stocks, especially if they are not very liquid. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: NANCY POLCARO=20 To: canslim=20 Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? which is right? One says a stop order will always execute somewhere = even if it is not at the stop price( this is what I thought) and one = says the market can pass through the stop and it will never be executed. = They both can not be correct. Advice from the more experienced then I = please. Thanks again for the help nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Forant Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:57 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? A stop order, buy or sell will always execute (somewhere). A Stop = Limit order may not if the market blows up through the stop *limit*. DanF ----- Original Message ----- From: "david frank" To: Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? > Warren, the bad thing about a stop order is that it is a = secondary order. A > broker doesn't have to execute it, thereby, you don't really = have any > recourse, if it is not executed, although the price of the stock = was within > your price parameters. If the price of the stock is outside of = your stop, it > will not execute. dave > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Warren Keuffel" > To: "CANSLIM list" > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:55 AM > Subject: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? > > > > I am curious (yellow) -- sorry, bad joke that will be = undersood only by > > those of a certain age, if no one "gets" it I will explain, if = asked -- > > > > anyway, back to the subject -- whether people here have used = buy stop > > limit orders to trigger a purchase if the price of a stock = rises above > > the limit price. You would need to use this with some sort of = manual or > > automatic scan for increased volume to make a good buy on a = breakout, > > but given the volume, seems like a buy stop limit order would = help one > > buy at the pivot point. Or not? > > > > Thanks, > > Warren > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C256A4.78C77CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Market orders will execute, if the market is = open, and=20 guarantees an execution but not a price. Stop orders becomes a market = order if=20 the stock trades at or through the stop price, thus, will = execute. The=20 limit order is not guaranteed to execute inside the price of the limit. = But if=20 executed the price you set or better is guaranteed. The stop limit order = becomes=20 a limit order when the stock hits the stop price. Since the stop limit = order is=20 a combination of a stop order and a limit order, again it is not = guaranteed to=20 execute inside the price of the limit. The market order is the priority = order=20 and a limit order maybe a secondary order.  In other words, any = limit order=20 may or may not execute inside your price limit. And shall not execute = outside=20 your price limit. I believe in the first post, Warren was asking about = buy stop=20 limit orders. and in my first post I mentioned stop orders, left out = limit,=20 which i tried to correct in my 2nd post. I have seen many times the = price goes=20 up on a stock, inside my stock price limit, thinking it will = execute at any=20 second, then going through the price limit without executing, especially = on the=20 listed markets, which always take time to get market execution = verifications=20 back. Then you call your friendly broker. and you say, hey, why didn't = my stock=20 execute? And they will reply, hey, you had a limit order, your stock = doesn't=20 have to execute. That is their out. no recourse. That specialist might = have=20 taken your order at your good price and  the stock is higher and = now it's=20 his order at a profit. The reverse may be true of sell orders. = Dave
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 NANCY = POLCARO=20
To: canslim
Sent: Friday, September 06, = 2002 10:14=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop = Limit=20 orders?

Thanks Tom-you dont have a chart to go with that = do you-(haha)=20 nancy 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom=20 Worley
Sent: Friday, September 06, = 2002 7:25=20 PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy = Stop Limit=20 orders?
 
Nancy, a stop order converts to a = market order=20 (wherever the market is then). A stop LIMIT order converts to a = LIMIT order=20 (again, wherever the market is). So if the stop price is hit by a = big gap,=20 then the stop order becomes a market, and naturally executes, altho = at a=20 price that may be a real surprise. A stop LIMIT order, because it = now is a=20 LIMIT order, may not execute if the market moved outside of the = LIMIT=20 range.
 
Example: you find an absolutely = perfect,=20 classic, textbook cup and handle. Can't find a single thing wrong = with=20 either the chart or its fundamentals, even after exhaustive hours of = due=20 diligence (ok, I admit it, I like to fantasize).
 
You determine that the perfect = pivot point is=20 exactly $25.20, so you enter a Buy Stop order at $25.30. Your = friend,=20 however, enters a Buy Stop LIMIT order at Buy Stop $25.30, LIMIT = $26.46 (5%=20 over the pivot). Shortly before the open, the company announces that = it has=20 accepted a cash buyout at $29, and the stock gaps to that price (or = higher,=20 or just under) as the shorts immediately cover. Your buy is executed = at=20 around $29, and the best you can hope for is to sell at a breakeven, = if you=20 are lucky cover transaction costs. Your friend's order never = executes=20 because of the LIMIT and is able to simply cancel the order when the = news is=20 discovered.
 
Exactly the same thing can happen = on a Sell=20 Stop / Sell Stop LIMIT order. A stop order means you take what the = market=20 gives you, and can be triggered when the volume might have kept you = out of=20 the trade entirely. A stop LIMIT order means you may never get an = execution,=20 but may have a second chance to evaluate the situation, and change = the=20 order, or cancel it entirely.
 
As one further comment, many firms = still will=20 not accept Stop LIMIT orders on NASDAQ stocks, especially if they = are not=20 very liquid.
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: = NANCY = POLCARO=20
To: canslim
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit = orders?

which is right?  One says a stop order will always = execute=20 somewhere even if it is not at the stop price( this is what I = thought) and=20 one says the market can pass through the stop and it will never = be=20 executed.  They both can not be correct.  Advice from the = more=20 experienced then I please.  Thanks again for the help = nancy
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dan Forant
Sent: Friday, September 06, = 2002=20 10:57 AM
To: = canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy = Stop Limit=20 orders?
 
A stop order, buy or sell will always execute=20 (somewhere). A Stop Limit
order may not if the market blows up = through=20 the stop *limit*.

DanF
----- Original Message = - -----
From:=20 "david frank" <camelot.homes@charter.net>
To:=20 <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Friday, September 06, = 2002=20 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit = orders?


>=20 Warren, the bad thing about a stop order is that it is a secondary = order.
A
> broker doesn't have to execute it, thereby, = you don't=20 really have any
> recourse, if it is not executed, although = the=20 price of the stock was
within
> your price parameters. If = the=20 price of the stock is outside of your stop,
it
> will not = execute. dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: = "Warren=20 Keuffel" <wkeuffel@xmission.com>
> To: "CANSLIM list"=20 <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Friday, September = 06,=20 2002 10:55 AM
> Subject: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit=20 orders?
>
>
> > I am curious (yellow) -- = sorry, bad=20 joke that will be undersood only by
> > those of a = certain age,=20 if no one "gets" it I will explain, if asked --
> = >
> >=20 anyway, back to the subject -- whether people here have used buy=20 stop
> > limit orders to trigger a purchase if the price = of a=20 stock rises above
> > the limit price. You would need to = use this=20 with some sort of manual or
> > automatic scan for = increased=20 volume to make a good buy on a breakout,
> > but given = the=20 volume, seems like a buy stop limit order would help one
> = > buy=20 at the pivot point. Or not?
> >
> > = Thanks,
> >=20 Warren
> >
> >
> > -
> > -To=20 subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com"
> > = - -In the=20 email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
> > = - -"unsubscribe=20 canslim".  Do not use quotes in your = email.
>
>
>=20 -
> -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email=20 "majordomo@xmission.com"
> -In the email body, write = "subscribe=20 canslim" or
> -"unsubscribe canslim".  Do not use = quotes in=20 your email.
>


-
-To subscribe/unsubscribe, = email=20 "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In the email body, write "subscribe = canslim"=20 or
-"unsubscribe canslim".  Do not use quotes in your=20 email.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C256A4.78C77CC0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 20:52:31 -0700 From: "John Calkins" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C256B0.7C1E7980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Tom and Bond.......James Bond for all these great examples. This = is a real education on execution of trades. I can see the advantage of the buy stop limit order with keeping you = above the pivot and below an extended price except you might end up = buying on low volume. Do you and others prefer this method when you = cannot get to your trading device during the day or do you use it = regularly? And I can see the advantage of the sell stop order, but I've been caught = so many times in these gap down situations that I'm wondering if I = should place my sell stop above the pivot point so I can get the heck = out, or does this change with the market? I find myself checking all = the time to see what the action is when I can, its just I can't seem to = get in front of a computer or on the phone at the most important time. = I would like to set hard stops if they work for me. =20 Now the sell stop limit orders have me confused. I do see that at least = half of the time a stock will take a bounce so I can understand some of = the logic of a sell stop limit order of not carrying you to the = basement, but isn't it better to find a sell stop that might get you and = up-tic like above one of the areas of resistance? I keep telling myself if I could only just be there at the right time, I = could improve my trades....but this is a fallacy isn't it. It doesn't = matter if you get there or not, there are always surprises that fowl up = your trade, its just finding a method like James's by looking at action = during the days before that will support your move..........after you = burn yourself enough times, you put the gloves on ea? Next question. I keep telling myself, if I had the perfect stock alert = set then I could act on the volume. I see where MSN had price and = volume. I used this for a while instead of the hard stops. My cell = would give me the alert that my price or volume or both had been hit and = then I would be able to make a little more timely decision. Is this = again another inexperienced trader thinking that he's got the greatest = plan, just to have it fail? Half the time my Verizon phone won't get = the alert for some reason. This all just keeps coming back to such a small area of trading in the = pivot and break out that everyone try's to hit. It eventually seems to = go in the direction that the short sellers want. IBD say wait for the = market but then say the best moves are off the bottom. If the market = has moved 20% off the last bottom I just missed it again somehow. I'm getting quite gun shy. I'm capitulating. (JC) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tom Worley=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? Nancy, a stop order converts to a market order (wherever the market is = then). A stop LIMIT order converts to a LIMIT order (again, wherever the = market is). So if the stop price is hit by a big gap, then the stop = order becomes a market, and naturally executes, altho at a price that = may be a real surprise. A stop LIMIT order, because it now is a LIMIT = order, may not execute if the market moved outside of the LIMIT range. Example: you find an absolutely perfect, classic, textbook cup and = handle. Can't find a single thing wrong with either the chart or its = fundamentals, even after exhaustive hours of due diligence (ok, I admit = it, I like to fantasize). You determine that the perfect pivot point is exactly $25.20, so you = enter a Buy Stop order at $25.30. Your friend, however, enters a Buy = Stop LIMIT order at Buy Stop $25.30, LIMIT $26.46 (5% over the pivot). = Shortly before the open, the company announces that it has accepted a = cash buyout at $29, and the stock gaps to that price (or higher, or just = under) as the shorts immediately cover. Your buy is executed at around = $29, and the best you can hope for is to sell at a breakeven, if you are = lucky cover transaction costs. Your friend's order never executes = because of the LIMIT and is able to simply cancel the order when the = news is discovered. Exactly the same thing can happen on a Sell Stop / Sell Stop LIMIT = order. A stop order means you take what the market gives you, and can be = triggered when the volume might have kept you out of the trade entirely. = A stop LIMIT order means you may never get an execution, but may have a = second chance to evaluate the situation, and change the order, or cancel = it entirely. As one further comment, many firms still will not accept Stop LIMIT = orders on NASDAQ stocks, especially if they are not very liquid. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: NANCY POLCARO=20 To: canslim=20 Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? which is right? One says a stop order will always execute somewhere = even if it is not at the stop price( this is what I thought) and one = says the market can pass through the stop and it will never be executed. = They both can not be correct. Advice from the more experienced then I = please. Thanks again for the help nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Forant Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:57 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? A stop order, buy or sell will always execute (somewhere). A Stop = Limit order may not if the market blows up through the stop *limit*. DanF ----- Original Message ----- From: "david frank" To: Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? > Warren, the bad thing about a stop order is that it is a secondary = order. A > broker doesn't have to execute it, thereby, you don't really have = any > recourse, if it is not executed, although the price of the stock = was within > your price parameters. If the price of the stock is outside of = your stop, it > will not execute. dave > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Warren Keuffel" > To: "CANSLIM list" > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:55 AM > Subject: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders? > > > > I am curious (yellow) -- sorry, bad joke that will be undersood = only by > > those of a certain age, if no one "gets" it I will explain, if = asked -- > > > > anyway, back to the subject -- whether people here have used buy = stop > > limit orders to trigger a purchase if the price of a stock rises = above > > the limit price. You would need to use this with some sort of = manual or > > automatic scan for increased volume to make a good buy on a = breakout, > > but given the volume, seems like a buy stop limit order would = help one > > buy at the pivot point. Or not? > > > > Thanks, > > Warren > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C256B0.7C1E7980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Tom and Bond.......James Bond = for all these=20 great examples.  This is a real education on execution of=20 trades.
 
I can see the advantage of the buy stop = limit order=20 with keeping you above the pivot and below an extended price except you = might=20 end up buying on low volume.  Do you and others prefer this method = when you=20 cannot get to your trading device during the day or do you use it=20 regularly?
 
And I can see the advantage of the = sell stop=20 order, but I've been caught so many times in these gap down situations = that I'm=20 wondering if I should place my sell stop above the pivot point so I can = get the=20 heck out, or does this change with the market?   I find myself = checking all the time to see what the action is when I can, its just I = can't=20 seem to get in front of a computer or on the phone at the most important = time.  I would like to set hard stops if they work for me. =20
 
Now the sell stop limit orders have me=20 confused.  I do see that at least half of the time a stock will = take a=20 bounce so I can understand some of the logic of a sell stop limit order = of not=20 carrying you to the basement, but isn't it better to find a sell stop = that might=20 get you and up-tic like above one of the areas of = resistance?
 
I keep telling myself if I could only = just be there=20 at the right time, I could improve my trades....but this is a fallacy = isn't=20 it.  It doesn't matter if you get there or not, there are always = surprises=20 that fowl up your trade, its just finding a method like James's by = looking=20 at action during the days before that will support your = move..........after you=20 burn yourself enough times, you put the gloves on ea?
 
Next question.  I keep telling = myself, if I=20 had the perfect stock alert set then I could act on the volume.  I = see=20 where MSN had price and volume.  I used this for a while instead of = the=20 hard stops.  My cell would give me the alert that my price or = volume or=20 both had been hit and then I would be able to make a little more timely=20 decision.  Is this again another inexperienced trader thinking that = he's=20 got the greatest plan, just to have it fail?  Half the time my = Verizon=20 phone won't get the alert for some reason.
 
This all just keeps coming back to such = a small=20 area of trading in the pivot and break out  that everyone try's to = hit. It=20 eventually seems to go in the direction that the short sellers = want.  IBD=20 say wait for the market but then say the best moves are off the = bottom.  If=20 the market has moved 20% off the last bottom I just missed it again=20 somehow.
 
I'm getting quite gun shy.  I'm=20 capitulating.
 
(JC)
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tom=20 Worley
Sent: Friday, September 06, = 2002 7:24=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop = Limit=20 orders?

Nancy, a stop order converts to a = market order=20 (wherever the market is then). A stop LIMIT order converts to a LIMIT = order=20 (again, wherever the market is). So if the stop price is hit by a big = gap,=20 then the stop order becomes a market, and naturally executes, altho at = a price=20 that may be a real surprise. A stop LIMIT order, because it now is a = LIMIT=20 order, may not execute if the market moved outside of the LIMIT=20 range.
 
Example: you find an absolutely = perfect, classic,=20 textbook cup and handle. Can't find a single thing wrong with either = the chart=20 or its fundamentals, even after exhaustive hours of due diligence (ok, = I admit=20 it, I like to fantasize).
 
You determine that the perfect pivot = point is=20 exactly $25.20, so you enter a Buy Stop order at $25.30. Your friend, = however,=20 enters a Buy Stop LIMIT order at Buy Stop $25.30, LIMIT $26.46 (5% = over the=20 pivot). Shortly before the open, the company announces that it has = accepted a=20 cash buyout at $29, and the stock gaps to that price (or higher, or = just=20 under) as the shorts immediately cover. Your buy is executed at around = $29,=20 and the best you can hope for is to sell at a breakeven, if you are = lucky=20 cover transaction costs. Your friend's order never executes because of = the=20 LIMIT and is able to simply cancel the order when the news is=20 discovered.
 
Exactly the same thing can happen on = a Sell Stop=20 / Sell Stop LIMIT order. A stop order means you take what the market = gives=20 you, and can be triggered when the volume might have kept you out of = the trade=20 entirely. A stop LIMIT order means you may never get an execution, but = may=20 have a second chance to evaluate the situation, and change the order, = or=20 cancel it entirely.
 
As one further comment, many firms = still will not=20 accept Stop LIMIT orders on NASDAQ stocks, especially if they are not = very=20 liquid.
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: NANCY = POLCARO=20
To: canslim
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders?

which is right?  One says a stop order will always = execute=20 somewhere even if it is not at the stop price( this is what I thought) = and one=20 says the market can pass through the stop and it will never be=20 executed.  They both can not be correct.  Advice from the = more=20 experienced then I please.  Thanks again for the help nancy
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan=20 Forant
Sent: Friday, September 06, = 2002 10:57=20 AM
To: = canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy = Stop Limit=20 orders?
 
A stop order, buy or sell will always execute = (somewhere).=20 A Stop Limit
order may not if the market blows up through the = stop=20 *limit*.

DanF
----- Original Message -----
From: "david = frank"=20 <camelot.homes@charter.net>
To:=20 <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Friday, September 06, = 2002 12:53=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit orders?


> = Warren,=20 the bad thing about a stop order is that it is a secondary=20 order.
A
> broker doesn't have to execute it, thereby, you = don't=20 really have any
> recourse, if it is not executed, although = the price=20 of the stock was
within
> your price parameters. If the = price of=20 the stock is outside of your stop,
it
> will not execute.=20 dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Warren = Keuffel"=20 <wkeuffel@xmission.com>
> To: "CANSLIM list"=20 <canslim@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Friday, September = 06, 2002=20 10:55 AM
> Subject: [CANSLIM] Buy Stop Limit=20 orders?
>
>
> > I am curious (yellow) -- sorry, = bad=20 joke that will be undersood only by
> > those of a certain = age, if=20 no one "gets" it I will explain, if asked --
> >
> = >=20 anyway, back to the subject -- whether people here have used buy=20 stop
> > limit orders to trigger a purchase if the price of = a stock=20 rises above
> > the limit price. You would need to use this = with=20 some sort of manual or
> > automatic scan for increased = volume to=20 make a good buy on a breakout,
> > but given the volume, = seems like=20 a buy stop limit order would help one
> > buy at the pivot = point.=20 Or not?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > = Warren
>=20 >
> >
> > -
> > -To = subscribe/unsubscribe,=20 email "majordomo@xmission.com"
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>
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