From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #3443 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Wednesday, July 23 2003 Volume 02 : Number 3443 In this issue: [CANSLIM] Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Re: [CANSLIM] *** OFF TOPIC *** Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:09:39 -0600 From: "David Taggart" Subject: [CANSLIM] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01CC_01C350FA.255465C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, As far as strategy goes I agree 100% with Katherine that there are a ton of good trading/investing disciplines. From day trading and option selling to value investing almost any method can be profitable if the person learns it well and is disciplined. You can give the best trading system ever to 10 different people and a few will make a ton of money and a few will lose all their money even though they see the same thing and so should be trading the same thing. The Turtles of Richard Dennis and Market Wizard fame are a perfect example. They were given a very very mechanical system and not only did they have wildy different results but they ranged from making many many millions to losing all of their startup capital. Discipline is where trading success is at. -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Krueger, Kevin Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:35 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: [CANSLIM] Slightly back on CANSLIM now (was RE: [CANSLIM] *** OFF TOPIC *** Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete ) -----Original Message----- From: Katherine Malm [mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 11:33 PM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] *** OFF TOPIC *** Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete [Krueger, Kevin] [*snip] All in all, to make money consistently in the market, one has to (1) Have a strategy that works and that matches their sensibility and risk tolerance (2) Have tools that support that particular strategy (3) Become a master at the strategy, constantly improving their abilities and execution (4) Have a keen focus and disclipline. Pick any strategy you like, value investing, high growth investing, long term investing, short term swing trading, whatever. There are endless ways to make money in the market, but there are very few who are willling to do what it is necessary to become an expert at their chosen strategy. [Krueger, Kevin] Definitely excellent advice Katherine. Learn, understand, and try to excel in a system. If it doesn't work for you, modify your approach and try a different system. Myself, I was a value investor during the late 90's. I had mixed results, but more importantly, I found that that type of investing was not a satisfying approach for my personality. I'm finding the technical/fundamental approach very interesting, but I am a skeptic. I've been subscribing to IBD/reading WON/learning technical investing since Jan '03. After that short time, I feel WON's website, products, and books are there for 2 reasons: 1) Help the investors make profits, 2) Help WON make profits. Obviously no. 2 is primary. :) No. 1 is very solid as well. I enjoy the paper tremendously. I find this group to be excellent collaboration because there is a maturity in the analysis or opinions from the members that iterates the ideas that there is no "right" answer for every situation in a system and the individual investor must perform due diligence. BTW - my results so far this year are indicative (I think) of my skepticism in any one system. I've traded on sentimental value plays with mixed results (ANDW, ET). I've traded on speculative crap and lost (SMSI). I've traded on CANSLIM candidates outside of the pivot point (I was late to the rally and did not want to miss out) and have had some mixed success (BLTI, SOHU, LEND,THOR). I'm not trying to lose money while I learn, but I value the results of real world application of concepts ;) One question I have for CANSLIMers is on the primary (and hopefully most properous) approach you take for finding potential long positions . . . are you (1) finding stocks trading in a bullish technical pattern (i.e. cwh) and then selecting only those candidates with CANSLIM attributes or (2) finding CANSLIM candidates and monitoring them for the bullish technical pattern where you might take a position. (Assuming long plays only) Thanks -Curious Kevin Just so there's no misconception here, I know Vectorvest inside out, having used it for 5 years myself as a means for mining for CANSLIM candidates. It worked well enough though I have recently discontinued its use in favor of something else. CANSLIM is not for everybody. For those who invest the time to learn it well, the rewards are super. Katherine [Krueger, Kevin] [*snip] - ------=_NextPart_000_01CC_01C350FA.255465C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
 
As far=20 as strategy goes I agree 100% with Katherine that there are a ton of = good=20 trading/investing disciplines.  From day trading and option selling = to=20 value investing almost any method can be profitable if the person learns = it well=20 and is disciplined.  You can give the best trading system ever to = 10=20 different people and a few will make a ton of money and a few will lose = all=20 their money even though they see the same thing and so should be trading = the=20 same thing.  The Turtles of Richard Dennis and Market Wizard fame = are a=20 perfect example.  They were given a very very mechanical system and = not=20 only did they have wildy different results but they ranged from making = many many=20 millions to losing all of their startup capital.  Discipline is = where=20 trading success is at.
 
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Krueger,=20 Kevin
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:35 AM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: [CANSLIM] Slightly back = on=20 CANSLIM now (was RE: [CANSLIM] *** OFF TOPIC *** Anti CANSLIM ** Hit = Delete=20 )

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Katherine Malm=20 [mailto:kmalm@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 = 11:33=20 PM
To: canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: = [CANSLIM]=20 *** OFF TOPIC *** Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete

[Krueger,=20 Kevin] [*snip] 
 
All in all, to make money = consistently=20 in the market, one has to
(1) Have a strategy that works = and that=20 matches their sensibility and risk tolerance
(2) Have tools that support = that=20 particular strategy
(3) Become a master at the = strategy,=20 constantly improving their abilities and execution
(4) Have a keen focus and=20 disclipline.
 
Pick any strategy you like, = value=20 investing, high growth investing, long term investing, short term = swing=20 trading, whatever. There are endless ways to make money in the = market, but=20 there are very few who are willling to do what it is necessary to = become an=20 expert at their chosen strategy.
 
[Krueger,=20 Kevin] Definitely excellent advice Katherine. Learn, = understand, and=20 try to excel in a system. If it doesn't work for you, = modify your=20 approach and try a different system. Myself, I was a value = investor during the late 90's. I had mixed results, but more=20 importantly, I found that that type of = investing was not=20 a satisfying approach for my personality. I'm finding the=20 technical/fundamental approach very interesting, but I am a skeptic. = I've=20 been subscribing to IBD/reading WON/learning technical investing = since Jan=20 '03. After that short time, I feel WON's website, products, and = books are=20 there for 2 reasons: 1) Help the investors make profits, 2) Help WON = make=20 profits. Obviously no. 2 is primary. :) No. 1 is very solid as well. = I enjoy=20 the paper tremendously.
 
I find this group to be = excellent=20 collaboration because there is a maturity in the analysis or = opinions=20 from the members that iterates the ideas that there is no = "right"=20 answer for every situation in a system and the individual investor = must=20 perform due diligence.
 
BTW - my results so far this = year are=20 indicative (I think) of my skepticism in any one system. I've traded = on=20 sentimental value plays with mixed results (ANDW, ET). I've traded = on=20 speculative crap and lost (SMSI). I've traded on CANSLIM candidates = outside=20 of the pivot point (I was late to the rally and did not = want to=20 miss out) and have had some mixed success (BLTI, SOHU, LEND,THOR). =  I'm=20 not trying to lose money while I learn, but I value the results of = real=20 world application of concepts ;)
 
One question I have for = CANSLIMers is on the=20 primary (and hopefully most properous) approach you take for = finding=20 potential long positions . . . are you (1) finding stocks = trading=20 in a bullish technical pattern (i.e. cwh) and then selecting only = those=20 candidates with CANSLIM attributes or (2) finding CANSLIM candidates = and=20 monitoring them for the  bullish technical pattern where you = might take=20 a position. (Assuming long plays only)
 
Thanks
-Curious = Kevin
 
Just so there's no = misconception here, I=20 know Vectorvest inside out, having used it for 5 years myself as a = means for=20 mining for CANSLIM candidates. It worked well enough though I = have=20 recently discontinued its use in favor of something = else.
 
CANSLIM is not for = everybody. For=20 those who invest the time to learn it well, the rewards are=20 super.
 
Katherine
[Krueger,=20 = Kevin] [*snip] 
- ------=_NextPart_000_01CC_01C350FA.255465C0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:44:04 -0400 From: Hong Hsu Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Does anyone here uses Schedule C to tax return 1040 while using CANSLIM=20 approach? I am confused by Special Rules for Traders in Securities. On page 68 of=20 Publication 550, it said: =93You must seek to profit from daily market=20 movements in the prices of securities and not from dividends, interest,=20 or capital appreciation.=94 What does exactly daily market movements refer to in here? What is=20 capital appreciation refers to here exactly? If stocks average holding=20 period is 12 days. Does it qualify for profit of daily market movements=20 or capital appreciation? Your thought? Thanks in advanced, - -Hong - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:06:39 -0400 From: "Pritish Shah" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit I do use Schedule C for CANSLIM. My major source of income is not the wall = street so I do not qualify as a trader. I do not think I ever want to be a = trader for a living. For tax purposes, quicken is a good product to have. At the end of the = year, it automatically calculates the Schedule C for you. This data you = can import in Turbo Tax or Tax Cut. Pritish >>> Hong Hsu 07/23/03 11:44AM >>> Does anyone here uses Schedule C to tax return 1040 while using CANSLIM=20 approach? I am confused by Special Rules for Traders in Securities. On page 68 of=20 Publication 550, it said: "You must seek to profit from daily market=20 movements in the prices of securities and not from dividends, interest,=20 or capital appreciation." What does exactly daily market movements refer to in here? What is=20 capital appreciation refers to here exactly? If stocks average holding=20 period is 12 days. Does it qualify for profit of daily market movements=20 or capital appreciation? Your thought? Thanks in advanced, - -Hong - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:18:52 EDT From: Spencer48@aol.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Hong: I don't use Schedule C (business expenses) to deduct my trading=20 expenses; nor am I an accountant, but here is how I understand the passage o= f=20 Publication 550 that you quote: You don't need to realize your profit each day (ie sell your holding),=20 only seek out a profit each day due to the mkt movement. =20 The reason it says, "...not from dividends, interest, or capital=20 appreciation,=E2=80=9D I believe is to assure the IRS that the trader is act= ually making=20 money from trades based on the movements in the market, not on items which=20 indicate that the investor is not in the business of trading. jans In a message dated 7/23/2003 11:45:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 honghsu@bellatlantic.net writes: << Does anyone here uses Schedule C to tax return 1040 while using CANSLIM=20 approach? =20 I am confused by Special Rules for Traders in Securities. On page 68 of=20 Publication 550, it said: =E2=80=9CYou must seek to profit from daily marke= t=20 movements in the prices of securities and not from dividends, interest,=20 or capital appreciation.=E2=80=9D =20 What does exactly daily market movements refer to in here? What is=20 capital appreciation refers to here exactly? If stocks average holding=20 period is 12 days. Does it qualify for profit of daily market movements=20 or capital appreciation? >> - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:21:03 -0500 (CDT) From: "Robert Gammon" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit The use of Schedule C for trading without a letter from the IRS certifying you as a trader incurs a high risk of an audit where all expenses allowable will be moved to Sch A. The rules for being a trader essentially say a consistent pattern of trading and trading for short term gains. Stock that are held for as long as a month will disqualify as a trader. Traders MUST have substantially all of theire income from trading. Robert Gammon Houston, TX I prepare taxes for a living On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:06:39 -0400, Pritish Shah wrote: > >I do use Schedule C for CANSLIM. My major source of income is not the wall street so I do not qualify as a trader. I do not think I ever want to be a trader for a living. > >For tax purposes, quicken is a good product to have. At the end of the year, it automatically calculates the Schedule C for you. This data you can import in Turbo Tax or Tax Cut. > >Pritish > >>>> Hong Hsu 07/23/03 11:44AM >>> > >Does anyone here uses Schedule C to tax return 1040 while using CANSLIM >approach? > >I am confused by Special Rules for Traders in Securities. On page 68 of >Publication 550, it said: "You must seek to profit from daily market >movements in the prices of securities and not from dividends, interest, >or capital appreciation." > >What does exactly daily market movements refer to in here? What is >capital appreciation refers to here exactly? If stocks average holding >period is 12 days. Does it qualify for profit of daily market movements >or capital appreciation? > >Your thought? Thanks in advanced, >-Hong > > > > > >- >-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" >-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or >-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. Robert Gammon Houston, TX - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:22:46 -0500 (CDT) From: "Robert Gammon" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit An average holding period of 12 days is LIKELY to disqualify you as a trader. Traders hold very few positions overnight. Robert Gammon Houston, TX I prepare taxes for a living and assist clients with IRS audits On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:44:04 -0400, Hong Hsu wrote: > >Does anyone here uses Schedule C to tax return 1040 while using CANSLIM >approach? > >I am confused by Special Rules for Traders in Securities. On page 68 of >Publication 550, it said: “You must seek to profit from daily market >movements in the prices of securities and not from dividends, interest, >or capital appreciation.” > >What does exactly daily market movements refer to in here? What is >capital appreciation refers to here exactly? If stocks average holding >period is 12 days. Does it qualify for profit of daily market movements >or capital appreciation? > >Your thought? Thanks in advanced, >-Hong > > > > >- >-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" >-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or >-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. Robert Gammon Houston, TX - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:23:41 -0400 From: "Pritish Shah" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Sorry I meant I do not use Schedule C for CANSLIM. >>> rgammon51@yahoo.com 07/23/03 12:21PM >>> The use of Schedule C for trading without a letter from the IRS=20 certifying you as a trader incurs a high risk of an audit where=20 all expenses allowable will be moved to Sch A. The rules for=20 being a trader essentially say a consistent pattern of trading=20 and trading for short term gains. Stock that are held for as=20 long as a month will disqualify as a trader. Traders MUST have=20 substantially all of theire income from trading. Robert Gammon Houston, TX I prepare taxes for a living On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:06:39 -0400, Pritish Shah wrote: > >I do use Schedule C for CANSLIM. My major source of income is=20 not the wall street so I do not qualify as a trader. I do not=20 think I ever want to be a trader for a living. > >For tax purposes, quicken is a good product to have. At the end=20 of the year, it automatically calculates the Schedule C for you.=20 This data you can import in Turbo Tax or Tax Cut. > >Pritish > >>>> Hong Hsu 07/23/03 11:44AM >>> > >Does anyone here uses Schedule C to tax return 1040 while using=20 CANSLIM=20 >approach? > >I am confused by Special Rules for Traders in Securities. On=20 page 68 of=20 >Publication 550, it said: "You must seek to profit from daily=20 market=20 >movements in the prices of securities and not from dividends,=20 interest,=20 >or capital appreciation." > >What does exactly daily market movements refer to in here? What=20 is=20 >capital appreciation refers to here exactly? If stocks average=20 holding=20 >period is 12 days. Does it qualify for profit of daily market=20 movements=20 >or capital appreciation? > >Your thought? Thanks in advanced, >-Hong > > > > > >- >-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" >-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or >-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. Robert Gammon Houston, TX - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:29:53 EDT From: Spencer48@aol.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Pritish: How can you use Schedule C (business expenses) for CANSLIM. I thought Schedule C was devoted only to expenses of a business which can be deducted from your business income? (Is there a difference between a "Trader" using Schedule C (ala Publication 550), and any taxpayer being allowed to use Schedule C so long as he uses CANSLIM as a business [albeit not his MAIN business, ie. wherein he makes most of his income]?) Also, what is your rationale for deducting CANSLIM expenses using Schedule C? (Are you retired and have no other source of income)? jans In a message dated 7/23/2003 12:13:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pshah@lason.com writes: << I do use Schedule C for CANSLIM. My major source of income is not the wall street so I do not qualify as a trader. I do not think I ever want to be a trader for a living. >> - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:41:24 -0400 From: Hong Hsu Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit >An average holding period of 12 days is LIKELY to disqualify you as a trader. >Traders hold very few positions overnight. Rob, Thanks for your info. But my questions remain unanswered. that is, "What is daily market movements in the prices of securities and what is capital appreciation from that price". Can you give precise answer to that from your professional experiences? >The use of Schedule C for trading without a letter from >the IRS certifying you as a trader incurs a high risk of >an audit where all expenses allowable will be moved to >Sch A. That is interesting info. What is the procedure that the IRS use to certify someone as trader? I will appreciate if you could share that information with us. - -Hong Robert Gammon wrote: >The use of Schedule C for trading without a letter from the IRS >certifying you as a trader incurs a high risk of an audit where >all expenses allowable will be moved to Sch A. The rules for >being a trader essentially say a consistent pattern of trading >and trading for short term gains. Stock that are held for as >long as a month will disqualify as a trader. Traders MUST have >substantially all of theire income from trading. > > - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "Robert Gammon" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Deduction Subject to 2% Limit Daily market movements == Day Trading, ultra short term trend following trades. We all look at charts, these charts need to cover periods of a week or less. We seek to capture profits from the relatively small spikes (up and down) that almost any stock experiences every week Capital Appreciation == a pattern of generally winning trades. To certify as a trader, you need to make contact with someone at the IRS that is familiar with the qualifications. That may require some diligence to locate such a person. They will want to see your trading records. brokerage statements, spreadsheets on your computer, etc. From your trading records and your latest tax return 1. It needs to be clear to the agent that you are supporting yourself with this trading activity. That is, the trading profits are the majority of your income. 2. Your holding periods need to be measured in days or hours not weeks or months. 3. There can be no detectable Dividend Capture activity (our parents, if sufficiently savy, were fond of this). There are several other short term trading strategies that are potential gotchas here. The 'good' thing is that Wash Sale Rules do not apply. The bad thing is that we must Mark to Market like futures/commodity traders do at the end of the year. In other words, the stuff that the Day Traders did, if they were following the rules, meets this criteria. 1. They had to be successsful - very very few were/are 2. They had to follow the rules - NO overnight holdings other than cash. 3. They were at the terminal every market day, except for brief vacations. I have seen several Day Traders who had the round trip profit taped to the top of their screen. These were usually expressed as profit on 1,000 share trades. They were looking to capture movements of 25cents or less. Meter drop was IMPORTANT, the length of the ride was uninteresting (cabbies have the same attitude, they want LOTS of short fares not two or three LONG trips across town). Robert Gammon Houston, TX On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:41:24 -0400, Hong Hsu wrote: > >An average holding period of 12 days is LIKELY to disqualify you as a >trader. >Traders hold very few positions overnight. > > >Rob, > > Thanks for your info. But my questions remain unanswered. that is, >"What is daily market movements in the prices of securities and what is >capital appreciation from that price". Can you give precise answer to >that from your professional experiences? > > >>The use of Schedule C for trading without a letter from >the IRS certifying you as a trader incurs a high risk of >an audit where all expenses allowable will be moved to >Sch A. > >That is interesting info. What is the procedure that the IRS use to >certify someone as trader? I will appreciate if you could share that >information with us. >-Hong > > > >Robert Gammon wrote: > >>The use of Schedule C for trading without a letter from the IRS >>certifying you as a trader incurs a high risk of an audit where >>all expenses allowable will be moved to Sch A. The rules for >>being a trader essentially say a consistent pattern of trading >>and trading for short term gains. Stock that are held for as >>long as a month will disqualify as a trader. Traders MUST have >>substantially all of theire income from trading. >> >> > > > >- >-To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" >-In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or >-"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. Robert Gammon Houston, TX - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:10:59 -0500 From: "Gene Ricci" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] *** OFF TOPIC *** Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0437_01C3512C.9FB7CE60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jans,=20 Before I answer your question of a short strategy without charts, I = would like to show you a copy of a note that is pasted on the covers of = my system's development 3-ring binders, my MetaStock Users manual and = Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom (Dr. Van Tharp) book: =20 Money Management: The Real Holy Grail By: Mark Boucher (Trading Markets) Traders, in general, spend far too much time and effort trying to find = magical systems or methodologies that produce high returns, rather than = increasing their understanding of the markets and using astute money = management to apply what they learn. I agree with Stanley Kroll who once said: "It is better to have a mediocre system and good money management than = an excellent system and poor money management Now to VV... There are a lot of folks that call the scanning of a database as = provided by DGO, HGSI and VectorVest strategies. I call them searches. I = like HGSI's terminology the best, they apply filters to their database = to provide a list of stocks meeting minimum criteria. VV has about 7500 stocks in their database and if I search their = database with a specific set of criteria.... I essentially filter out = what I don't want to look at... if I find that set of criteria to be = useful, I'll give that 'search' a name... the REAL KEY to VV is how the = resultant list from the search is sorted (ranked).... VV provides for = user custom sorts. VV provides many 'canned' long and short strategies (really searches) = that were developed by their staff and users over the years. And of = course, users can generate their own searches as well.=20 Many of the proficient VV users that I know concentrate on market timing = versus stock fundamentals and chart patterns. They have obtained some = good results using long searches when the market is going up and short = searches when the market is going down. Others feel as I do, VV can be used effectively to identify CS = candidates. Some just work with what VV provides, others use DGO and IBD = watchlists ..... or ..... Let's get back to market timing using VectorVest and short/long searches = (without charts and/or stock fundamentals) in 2003. On 1/10/03 a SELL signal was generated - when the RT of the MTI crossed = down thru the RT's 8 week MA (RT=3DRelative Timing) (MTI=3D Market = Timing Indicator). When this setup starts to fail (as they all do) we'll = have to be on our toes and make modifications to meet the new market = conditions. The following search was run: AvgVol - 50 day MA >/=3D 100K Stock EPS > - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - ------=_NextPart_000_0437_01C3512C.9FB7CE60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jans,
 
Before I answer your question of a = short=20 strategy without charts, I would like to show you a copy of a = note that is=20 pasted on the covers of my = system's=20 development 3-ring binders, my MetaStock Users manual and Trade Your Way = To=20 Financial Freedom (Dr. Van Tharp) book:  

Money = Management: The=20 Real Holy Grail

By: Mark Boucher = (Trading=20 Markets)

Traders, in general, spend = far too=20 much time and effort trying to find magical systems or methodologies = that=20 produce high returns, rather than increasing their understanding of the = markets=20 and using astute money management to apply what they learn.

I=20 agree with Stanley Kroll who once said:

"It is better to have a mediocre system and good money = management than an=20 excellent system and poor money management
 
Now to VV...
 
There are a lot of folks = that call the=20 scanning of a database as provided by DGO, HGSI and VectorVest = strategies. I call them searches. I like HGSI's terminology the best, = they apply=20 filters to their database to provide a list of stocks meeting minimum=20 criteria.
 
VV has about 7500 stocks in their = database and=20 if I search their database with a specific  set of criteria.... I=20 essentially filter out what I don't want to look at... if I find = that set=20 of criteria to be useful, I'll give that 'search' a name... the REAL KEY = to VV=20 is how the resultant list from the search is sorted (ranked)....=20 VV provides for user custom sorts.
 
VV provides many 'canned' long and = short=20 strategies (really searches) that were developed by their staff and = users=20 over the years. And of course,  users can generate their = own=20 searches as well. 
 
Many of the proficient VV users that I = know=20 concentrate on market timing versus stock fundamentals and chart = patterns. They=20 have obtained some good results using long searches when the market is = going up=20 and short searches when the market is going down.
 
Others feel as I do, VV can be used = effectively=20 to identify CS candidates. Some just work with what VV provides, others = use DGO=20 and IBD watchlists ..... or .....
 
Let's get back to market timing using = VectorVest=20 and short/long searches (without charts and/or stock fundamentals) = in=20 2003.
 
On 1/10/03 a SELL signal was generated = - - when=20 the RT of the MTI crossed down thru the RT's 8 week MA  = (RT=3DRelative=20 Timing) (MTI=3D Market Timing Indicator). When this setup starts to fail = (as they=20 all do) we'll have to be on our toes and make modifications to meet the = new=20 market conditions.
 
The following search was = run:
AvgVol - 50 day MA  >/=3D=20 100K
Stock EPS  </=3D = 0
Stock GRT (growth rate)  </=3D = 0
Stock Price =3D 5.00
Stock Recommendation =3D = Sell
Sort EY X RT Ascending  (EY =3D = Earnings=20 Yield)
 
Search Run on 1/10
Selected top  5 = stocks
Bought
CERS TLRK CBST GAP CVTX
1/13/03
 
On 3/14 a BUY signal was generated - = RT passed=20 up through 8 week MA
Sold 5 stocks on 3/17
4 winners
1 loser 2.82%
Gain 24.82%
 
Since a Buy Signal was generated on=20 3/14
A long search was used to buy on=20 3/17
CHTR, AMR, VRSN, ELN, = UALAQ
5 top stocks (if we tinkered with = stock=20 selection would we have purchased AMR)
 
A Sell Signal was generated on 6/20..=20
The five stocks were sold=20 on 6/23
4 winners
1 loser 17.44%
Gain 195% 3/17-6/23
 
--------- heck enuff already = !!!!
 
Hopefully the above is coherent, Home = Depot is=20 installing a new roof and they're using noisy hammers.
 
Gene
 
 
 
 
  
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Spencer48@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 = 7:17=20 PM
Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] *** OFF = TOPIC ***=20 Anti CANSLIM ** Hit Delete

Gene, Katherine or = anyone:

     I'd=20 be interested in knowing about VV's short strategy.  What is = it? =20
And it  doesn't use chart formations at all?  (This last = contention I find hard
to=20 believe).



jans

     =

In a=20 message dated 7/22/2003 7:15:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
genr@swbell.net = writes:

<<=20 11)   Try to find a short strategy like VectorVest has and = you'll=20 have a
hard time finding one in IBD.  Because William O'Neil = has been=20 snuffed out in
more bear markets than he can remember.  He = tried to=20 do it with chart
formations and it's not the way to go with = shorts. =20 VectorVest is right on target with
short strategies, and it's at = the touch=20 of a button.
  >>

-
-To subscribe/unsubscribe, = email=20 "majordomo@xmission.com"
-In= =20 the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or
-"unsubscribe = canslim". =20 Do not use quotes in your email.
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