From: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com (canslim-digest) To: canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: canslim-digest V2 #3554 Reply-To: canslim Sender: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-canslim-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-No-Archive: yes canslim-digest Friday, August 22 2003 Volume 02 : Number 3554 In this issue: Re: [CANSLIM] Options Re: [CANSLIM] Options Re: [CANSLIM] List technical question, ways to view messages RE: [CANSLIM] List technical question, ways to view messages [CANSLIM] FDRY volume RE: [CANSLIM] FDRY volume Re: [CANSLIM] FDRY volume Re: [CANSLIM] Options ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:24:16 -0400 From: "Dan Forant" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Options Limiting losses to 8% with options is cutting it too thin. 25% is more like it. Won has good advice for options. I'm not advocating using options in general, just when certain conditions develop. Ameritrade's options fees are around 12.50 + 1.50 per for additional contracts. Not exactly exorbitant. DanF - ----- Original Message ----- From: "DMC197807" To: Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 10:04 PM Subject: [CANSLIM] Options > Dan, > > The one problem with options is it is very hard to limit yourself to an 8% > loss, and the timeframe is a question. > > Just for example, let's assume you were fascinated with LF and decided to > buy options. > > Would you buy Sept or Oct.?? If you were confident of the breakout you might > choose Sept at the money calls, the 35s are on sale for 1.65 X 1.75. > > If it broke up to 40, they'd be worth $6 in a hurry. Nice. > > But if it dropped back down to 30 they'd be worth 15 cents. Maybe. Add in > the expensive commissions and you can see where things go. > > You'd have to deal with these things in more of a "nominal amount" analysis > to make any sense of it and just assume that $1.75 total loss is not 100% > loss, but rather a 5% loss on the nominal $35 value of the stock. Since you > are risking 1.75 to make $6, that's not a bad thing to do, and it takes a > lot less capital. > > For me, I'd want to know much more about the likelihood / frequency of > failed breakouts which would give you a better idea of whether or not > expensive options are a viable way to play CANSLIM. > > As to buying cheap options, there's a lot of literature and learning on that > subject which is more than this thread probably wants to delve into. > Suffice it to say SFO magazine has a lot of good articles on the subject and > there are a slew of options sites (cboe.com, optionvue, schaeffer's, etc.) > > DMC > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Forant" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:53 PM > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Intro: David Pinhasik > > > > What about options?? Buy an in the money call breakout time for a mere > > fraction of what 100 shares would run,. > > > > DanF > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ian" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 2:32 PM > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Intro: David Pinhasik > > > > > > > Hi David: > > > > > > I am the minority view, and some would say it is NOT CANSLIM at all, but > > > with just $1000, I would consider some sub $5 nancaps with CANSLIM > > > fundamentals, growth, low P/E, a strong outlook, and a strong chart. All > > > these things are the same thing you look for in $15+ CANSLIM stocks, but > > > they apply to the nanocaps as well. > > > > > > IMHO, your odds on the nanocaps are better (more winners, less > reversals) > > > because of the lower relative valuation, and the fact that 'value' > > investors > > > come in as well. But for most people, and almost all institutions, the > > > absolute dollar value of potential gains is too small to consider them. > > But > > > with $1000, they are very attractive. > > > > > > Some recent examples - to see what kind of thing I am talking about, > (not > > > buy recommendations here, my strategy on these kind of things at this > > point > > > is to wait for a pullback to the 13-day ema): > > > > > > OMNI > > > MILT > > > HSR > > > > > > The important thing to note in the charts of all 3 is the 'relative' > > > increase in volume in the last week or two. Even though the volume is > > still > > > very small, they have all seen a quantum jump in daily volume. > > > > > > The best place to find these, in my experience, is in the "earnings" > > section > > > of IBD. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "The Pinhasiks" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 8:26 AM > > > Subject: [CANSLIM] Intro: David Pinhasik > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I am a computer programmer working for IBM Global Services. Before the > > > > market went South, I was active lurker (read Tom's posts very > carefully) > > > and > > > > made 100% in 5 short weeks, and since then have been in cash most of > > the > > > > time except for a few dismal attempts to reenter the market, always > > > followed > > > > by a failure. Now, it seems like it may be the time to try again, > albeit > > > > carefully. My problem is that I have less than a $1,000 to > play > > > > with. Could anyone offer a way to screen CS stocks without paying a > > > fortune? > > > > I used to use Tom's Weekly Weeview as a starting point for my > research, > > > but > > > > now I'm clueless. Any suggestions will be happily accepted. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > > > > - > > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 06:15:50 -0700 From: "DMC197807" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Options Dan, "Not exactly exorbitant." It all depends on how you look at the options, which is why I always try to use a notional value of capital rather than the option cost of capital when I trade options. To clarify, using my example of LF, if you use the normal cost of capital ideas, and you buy 30 contracts, you pay $5,307.50 ($5,250 for the options plus $57.50 in commissions). Just to exit the contract, without any price move at all, costs you $357.50, or 6.7%. Put another way, as soon as you put on the trade, you are down 6.7%. If the stock moves against you as per my example, say a -$5 move, your options are worth 15 cents and you exit, with net $392.50 ($450 minus $57.50), for a whopping 93% loss. If the stock goes up $5, then you exit with $13,085 pure gain, or 246%. In any event, I have to run to the airport this morning, but if you rerun these numbers thinking about the nominal amount of stock you control, and your gains in those situations, then it achieves more reality. The 93% loss ($4,915) becomes more reasonable measured against the 105,000 worth of stock the position controls. The $13K gain as well becomes a more reasonable 12.4% gain on the position, while the loss limitations are very comfortable (as well as the real cost of capital). The mistake most people make is to congratulate themselves on the 246% gains while forgetting the options that expire worthless. DMC - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Forant" To: Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 4:24 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Options > Limiting losses to 8% with options is cutting it too thin. 25% is more like > it. Won has good advice for options. I'm not advocating using options in > general, just when certain conditions develop. Ameritrade's options fees are > around 12.50 + 1.50 per for additional contracts. Not exactly exorbitant. > > DanF > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DMC197807" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 10:04 PM > Subject: [CANSLIM] Options > > > > Dan, > > > > The one problem with options is it is very hard to limit yourself to an 8% > > loss, and the timeframe is a question. > > > > Just for example, let's assume you were fascinated with LF and decided to > > buy options. > > > > Would you buy Sept or Oct.?? If you were confident of the breakout you > might > > choose Sept at the money calls, the 35s are on sale for 1.65 X 1.75. > > > > If it broke up to 40, they'd be worth $6 in a hurry. Nice. > > > > But if it dropped back down to 30 they'd be worth 15 cents. Maybe. Add > in > > the expensive commissions and you can see where things go. > > > > You'd have to deal with these things in more of a "nominal amount" > analysis > > to make any sense of it and just assume that $1.75 total loss is not 100% > > loss, but rather a 5% loss on the nominal $35 value of the stock. Since > you > > are risking 1.75 to make $6, that's not a bad thing to do, and it takes a > > lot less capital. > > > > For me, I'd want to know much more about the likelihood / frequency of > > failed breakouts which would give you a better idea of whether or not > > expensive options are a viable way to play CANSLIM. > > > > As to buying cheap options, there's a lot of literature and learning on > that > > subject which is more than this thread probably wants to delve into. > > Suffice it to say SFO magazine has a lot of good articles on the subject > and > > there are a slew of options sites (cboe.com, optionvue, schaeffer's, etc.) > > > > DMC > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dan Forant" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:53 PM > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Intro: David Pinhasik > > > > > > > What about options?? Buy an in the money call breakout time for a mere > > > fraction of what 100 shares would run,. > > > > > > DanF > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ian" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 2:32 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Intro: David Pinhasik > > > > > > > > > > Hi David: > > > > > > > > I am the minority view, and some would say it is NOT CANSLIM at all, > but > > > > with just $1000, I would consider some sub $5 nancaps with CANSLIM > > > > fundamentals, growth, low P/E, a strong outlook, and a strong chart. > All > > > > these things are the same thing you look for in $15+ CANSLIM stocks, > but > > > > they apply to the nanocaps as well. > > > > > > > > IMHO, your odds on the nanocaps are better (more winners, less > > reversals) > > > > because of the lower relative valuation, and the fact that 'value' > > > investors > > > > come in as well. But for most people, and almost all institutions, the > > > > absolute dollar value of potential gains is too small to consider > them. > > > But > > > > with $1000, they are very attractive. > > > > > > > > Some recent examples - to see what kind of thing I am talking about, > > (not > > > > buy recommendations here, my strategy on these kind of things at this > > > point > > > > is to wait for a pullback to the 13-day ema): > > > > > > > > OMNI > > > > MILT > > > > HSR > > > > > > > > The important thing to note in the charts of all 3 is the 'relative' > > > > increase in volume in the last week or two. Even though the volume is > > > still > > > > very small, they have all seen a quantum jump in daily volume. > > > > > > > > The best place to find these, in my experience, is in the "earnings" > > > section > > > > of IBD. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "The Pinhasiks" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 8:26 AM > > > > Subject: [CANSLIM] Intro: David Pinhasik > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > I am a computer programmer working for IBM Global Services. Before > the > > > > > market went South, I was active lurker (read Tom's posts very > > carefully) > > > > and > > > > > made 100% in 5 short weeks, and since then have been in cash most > of > > > the > > > > > time except for a few dismal attempts to reenter the market, always > > > > followed > > > > > by a failure. Now, it seems like it may be the time to try again, > > albeit > > > > > carefully. My problem is that I have less than a $1,000 to > > play > > > > > with. Could anyone offer a way to screen CS stocks without paying a > > > > fortune? > > > > > I used to use Tom's Weekly Weeview as a starting point for my > > research, > > > > but > > > > > now I'm clueless. Any suggestions will be happily accepted. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > > > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > > > > - > > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:30:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Deiter Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] List technical question, ways to view messages Thanks Bill. What will not be allowed is to go to mail.Yahoo.com and check your e-mail (or Hotmail or any other such as Earthlink.net). I guess what I'm asking is can we go to xmission.com and view the messages - like in a discussion forum format? I went to xmission.com this morning, but didn't see how to do that. Marc - --- Bill Triffet wrote: > Marc, > Use the web version of your mail. For instance: I see your return > address is > Yahoo.com. Doesn't Yahoo have a web based mail page? I use my > Earthlink web > mail at work for the same reason. I think most of the bigger ISP's > offer a > web page version of their mail service. > > -- > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marc Deiter" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 9:23 AM > Subject: [CANSLIM] List technical question, ways to view messages > > > > Due to the recent number of virus attempts out there, the company > I > > work for today issued a statement that 3rd party e-mail systems > will > > not be allowed to be used while connected to the work network. I > am > > not in the office all the time so the impact is limited for me, > but > > for those days that I am in the office, is there another way to > check > > the messages posted here (i.e. a website I can go to)? I > currently > > use my Yahoo mail account for this list and I do not want to > > subscribe to receive the e-mails via my work e-mail account. > > > > Thanks, > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:38:14 -0500 From: "Katherine Malm" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] List technical question, ways to view messages Hi Marc, None of the discussions are available through a web interface as they occur. The only way that you'll be able to access the emails if you can't go to mail.yahoo.com is to view them after they are archived each day. Jeff will soon be moving the CANSLIM list to new email server software, but I am not sure if it will allow web access either. This move is not scheduled in the very near future, either. Here are the instructions for reading the archives, but this won't really be much better than reading the emails at home each evening, as the archives are a day in arrears. - --Katherine ================= Here are the two ways to access the archives: (BEST way) via your web browser at: ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/canslim/archive/ (Not as convenient) via email: Send an email to majordomo@xmission.com with the following as the body of your message: "index canslim". Then send a follow up email to request an old email from either the "archive" or "latest" directory. Note that your request must be in the body of your email. For example: "get canslim latest/001" will retrieve file "001" from the "latest" directory. "get canslim archive/v01.n066" will retrieve file "v01.n066" from the "archive" dir. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Marc Deiter Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 9:30 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] List technical question, ways to view messages Thanks Bill. What will not be allowed is to go to mail.Yahoo.com and check your e-mail (or Hotmail or any other such as Earthlink.net). I guess what I'm asking is can we go to xmission.com and view the messages - like in a discussion forum format? I went to xmission.com this morning, but didn't see how to do that. Marc - --- Bill Triffet wrote: > Marc, > Use the web version of your mail. For instance: I see your return > address is > Yahoo.com. Doesn't Yahoo have a web based mail page? I use my > Earthlink web > mail at work for the same reason. I think most of the bigger ISP's > offer a > web page version of their mail service. > > -- > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marc Deiter" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 9:23 AM > Subject: [CANSLIM] List technical question, ways to view messages > > > > Due to the recent number of virus attempts out there, the company > I > > work for today issued a statement that 3rd party e-mail systems > will > > not be allowed to be used while connected to the work network. I > am > > not in the office all the time so the impact is limited for me, > but > > for those days that I am in the office, is there another way to > check > > the messages posted here (i.e. a website I can go to)? I > currently > > use my Yahoo mail account for this list and I do not want to > > subscribe to receive the e-mails via my work e-mail account. > > > > Thanks, > > Marc - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:36:23 -0400 From: "Dave Wood" Subject: [CANSLIM] FDRY volume This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C368A1.9D9029C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I did not buy FDRY on yesterday's breakout because volume wasn't up = 130%. But I have been watching it today, and have a question. When the = stock trades back to its breakout range ( 18.56-18.61) some larger = trades occur. I saw an 800,400, and 10,000 share trade go by at these = prices. Does this indicate institutions are supporting the breakout? Is = this generally a good sign?=20 Thanks, Dave - ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C368A1.9D9029C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
I did not buy FDRY on yesterday's = breakout because=20 volume wasn't up 130%. But I have been watching it today, and have a = question.=20 When the stock trades back to its breakout range ( 18.56-18.61) some = larger=20 trades occur. I saw an 800,400, and 10,000 share trade go by at these = prices.=20 Does this indicate institutions are supporting the breakout? Is this = generally a=20 good sign?
 
Thanks,
 
Dave
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C368A1.9D9029C0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:51:44 -0500 From: "Katherine Malm" Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] FDRY volume This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C3689B.60C46890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dave, I call something like this a "slow breakout." In the strictest definition of the term, a breakout is simply a trade above an identifiable pivot, regardless of volume. In FDRY's case, it formed a 6-1/2 week flat base from 18.51 (7/8/03) until yesterday's rise above the 18.51 pivot. Trading activity which supports this rise above recent consolidation is positive. It's not uncommon for a stock to trade above average, but below the required 140-150% ADV on the actual breakout day. In a case like this the action in the next day or 2 confirms the move and collectively shows the high volume accumulation of shares above the pivot. In retrospect, if one were to view the B/O on a weekly chart, they would then see the requisite high volume move. Katherine -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dave Wood Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 10:36 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: [CANSLIM] FDRY volume Hi, I did not buy FDRY on yesterday's breakout because volume wasn't up 130%. But I have been watching it today, and have a question. When the stock trades back to its breakout range ( 18.56-18.61) some larger trades occur. I saw an 800,400, and 10,000 share trade go by at these prices. Does this indicate institutions are supporting the breakout? Is this generally a good sign? Thanks, Dave - ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C3689B.60C46890 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dave,
 
I call something like this a "slow = breakout." In the strictest definition of the term, a breakout is simply = a trade=20 above an identifiable pivot, regardless of volume. In FDRY's case, it = formed a=20 6-1/2 week flat base from 18.51 (7/8/03) until yesterday's rise above = the 18.51=20 pivot. Trading activity which supports this rise above recent = consolidation is=20 positive. It's not uncommon for a stock to trade above average, but = below the=20 required 140-150% ADV on the actual breakout day. In a case like this = the action=20 in the next day or 2 confirms the move and collectively shows the high = volume=20 accumulation of shares above the pivot. In retrospect, if one were to = view the=20 B/O on a weekly chart, they would then see the requisite high volume=20 move.
 
Katherine
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dave=20 Wood
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 10:36 AM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: [CANSLIM] FDRY=20 volume

Hi,
 
I did not buy FDRY on yesterday's = breakout=20 because volume wasn't up 130%. But I have been watching it today, and = have a=20 question. When the stock trades back to its breakout range ( = 18.56-18.61) some=20 larger trades occur. I saw an 800,400, and 10,000 share trade go by at = these=20 prices. Does this indicate institutions are supporting the breakout? = Is this=20 generally a good sign?
 
Thanks,
 
Dave
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C3689B.60C46890-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:02:48 -0400 From: "Dave Wood" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] FDRY volume This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C368A5.4E4149E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Katherine, As always, Thanks. I just started using Ameritrade streamer, and am = trying to integrate real time quotes into my system. Your answer helps = me add another piece to the puzzle. Dave ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Katherine Malm=20 To: canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 11:51 AM Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] FDRY volume Hi Dave, I call something like this a "slow breakout." In the strictest = definition of the term, a breakout is simply a trade above an = identifiable pivot, regardless of volume. In FDRY's case, it formed a = 6-1/2 week flat base from 18.51 (7/8/03) until yesterday's rise above = the 18.51 pivot. Trading activity which supports this rise above recent = consolidation is positive. It's not uncommon for a stock to trade above = average, but below the required 140-150% ADV on the actual breakout day. = In a case like this the action in the next day or 2 confirms the move = and collectively shows the high volume accumulation of shares above the = pivot. In retrospect, if one were to view the B/O on a weekly chart, = they would then see the requisite high volume move. Katherine -----Original Message----- From: owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dave Wood Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 10:36 AM To: canslim@lists.xmission.com Subject: [CANSLIM] FDRY volume Hi, I did not buy FDRY on yesterday's breakout because volume wasn't up = 130%. But I have been watching it today, and have a question. When the = stock trades back to its breakout range ( 18.56-18.61) some larger = trades occur. I saw an 800,400, and 10,000 share trade go by at these = prices. Does this indicate institutions are supporting the breakout? Is = this generally a good sign?=20 Thanks, Dave - ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C368A5.4E4149E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Katherine,
 
As always, Thanks. I just started using = Ameritrade=20 streamer, and am trying to integrate real time quotes into my system. = Your=20 answer helps me add another piece to the puzzle.
 
Dave
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Katherine=20 Malm
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 = 11:51=20 AM
Subject: RE: [CANSLIM] FDRY = volume

Hi Dave,
 
I call something like this a = "slow=20 breakout." In the strictest definition of the term, a breakout is = simply a=20 trade above an identifiable pivot, regardless of volume. In FDRY's = case, it=20 formed a 6-1/2 week flat base from 18.51 (7/8/03) until yesterday's = rise above=20 the 18.51 pivot. Trading activity which supports this rise above = recent=20 consolidation is positive. It's not uncommon for a stock to trade = above=20 average, but below the required 140-150% ADV on the actual breakout = day. In a=20 case like this the action in the next day or 2 confirms the move and=20 collectively shows the high volume accumulation of shares above the = pivot. In=20 retrospect, if one were to view the B/O on a weekly chart, they would = then see=20 the requisite high volume move.
 
Katherine
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-canslim@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Dave=20 Wood
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 10:36 AM
To:=20 canslim@lists.xmission.com
Subject: [CANSLIM] FDRY=20 volume

Hi,
 
I did not buy FDRY on yesterday's = breakout=20 because volume wasn't up 130%. But I have been watching it today, = and have a=20 question. When the stock trades back to its breakout range ( = 18.56-18.61)=20 some larger trades occur. I saw an 800,400, and 10,000 share trade = go by at=20 these prices. Does this indicate institutions are supporting the = breakout?=20 Is this generally a good sign?
 
Thanks,
 
Dave
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C368A5.4E4149E0-- - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:03:55 -0400 From: "Dan Forant" Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Options If I ever bought 30 contracts I'd faint...........................being conservative that is. DanF - ----- Original Message ----- From: "DMC197807" To: Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Options > Dan, > > "Not exactly exorbitant." > > It all depends on how you look at the options, which is why I always try to > use a notional value of capital rather than the option cost of capital when > I trade options. To clarify, using my example of LF, if you use the normal > cost of capital ideas, and you buy 30 contracts, you pay $5,307.50 ($5,250 > for the options plus $57.50 in commissions). Just to exit the contract, > without any price move at all, costs you $357.50, or 6.7%. Put another way, > as soon as you put on the trade, you are down 6.7%. > > If the stock moves against you as per my example, say a -$5 move, your > options are worth 15 cents and you exit, with net $392.50 ($450 minus > $57.50), for a whopping 93% loss. If the stock goes up $5, then you exit > with $13,085 pure gain, or 246%. > > In any event, I have to run to the airport this morning, but if you rerun > these numbers thinking about the nominal amount of stock you control, and > your gains in those situations, then it achieves more reality. The 93% loss > ($4,915) becomes more reasonable measured against the 105,000 worth of stock > the position controls. The $13K gain as well becomes a more reasonable > 12.4% gain on the position, while the loss limitations are very comfortable > (as well as the real cost of capital). The mistake most people make is to > congratulate themselves on the 246% gains while forgetting the options that > expire worthless. > > DMC > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Forant" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 4:24 AM > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Options > > > > Limiting losses to 8% with options is cutting it too thin. 25% is more > like > > it. Won has good advice for options. I'm not advocating using options in > > general, just when certain conditions develop. Ameritrade's options fees > are > > around 12.50 + 1.50 per for additional contracts. Not exactly exorbitant. > > > > DanF > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "DMC197807" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 10:04 PM > > Subject: [CANSLIM] Options > > > > > > > Dan, > > > > > > The one problem with options is it is very hard to limit yourself to an > 8% > > > loss, and the timeframe is a question. > > > > > > Just for example, let's assume you were fascinated with LF and decided > to > > > buy options. > > > > > > Would you buy Sept or Oct.?? If you were confident of the breakout you > > might > > > choose Sept at the money calls, the 35s are on sale for 1.65 X 1.75. > > > > > > If it broke up to 40, they'd be worth $6 in a hurry. Nice. > > > > > > But if it dropped back down to 30 they'd be worth 15 cents. Maybe. Add > > in > > > the expensive commissions and you can see where things go. > > > > > > You'd have to deal with these things in more of a "nominal amount" > > analysis > > > to make any sense of it and just assume that $1.75 total loss is not > 100% > > > loss, but rather a 5% loss on the nominal $35 value of the stock. Since > > you > > > are risking 1.75 to make $6, that's not a bad thing to do, and it takes > a > > > lot less capital. > > > > > > For me, I'd want to know much more about the likelihood / frequency of > > > failed breakouts which would give you a better idea of whether or not > > > expensive options are a viable way to play CANSLIM. > > > > > > As to buying cheap options, there's a lot of literature and learning on > > that > > > subject which is more than this thread probably wants to delve into. > > > Suffice it to say SFO magazine has a lot of good articles on the subject > > and > > > there are a slew of options sites (cboe.com, optionvue, schaeffer's, > etc.) > > > > > > DMC > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dan Forant" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:53 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Intro: David Pinhasik > > > > > > > > > > What about options?? Buy an in the money call breakout time for a mere > > > > fraction of what 100 shares would run,. > > > > > > > > DanF > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Ian" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 2:32 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CANSLIM] Intro: David Pinhasik > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi David: > > > > > > > > > > I am the minority view, and some would say it is NOT CANSLIM at all, > > but > > > > > with just $1000, I would consider some sub $5 nancaps with CANSLIM > > > > > fundamentals, growth, low P/E, a strong outlook, and a strong chart. > > All > > > > > these things are the same thing you look for in $15+ CANSLIM stocks, > > but > > > > > they apply to the nanocaps as well. > > > > > > > > > > IMHO, your odds on the nanocaps are better (more winners, less > > > reversals) > > > > > because of the lower relative valuation, and the fact that 'value' > > > > investors > > > > > come in as well. But for most people, and almost all institutions, > the > > > > > absolute dollar value of potential gains is too small to consider > > them. > > > > But > > > > > with $1000, they are very attractive. > > > > > > > > > > Some recent examples - to see what kind of thing I am talking about, > > > (not > > > > > buy recommendations here, my strategy on these kind of things at > this > > > > point > > > > > is to wait for a pullback to the 13-day ema): > > > > > > > > > > OMNI > > > > > MILT > > > > > HSR > > > > > > > > > > The important thing to note in the charts of all 3 is the 'relative' > > > > > increase in volume in the last week or two. Even though the volume > is > > > > still > > > > > very small, they have all seen a quantum jump in daily volume. > > > > > > > > > > The best place to find these, in my experience, is in the "earnings" > > > > section > > > > > of IBD. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "The Pinhasiks" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 8:26 AM > > > > > Subject: [CANSLIM] Intro: David Pinhasik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a computer programmer working for IBM Global Services. Before > > the > > > > > > market went South, I was active lurker (read Tom's posts very > > > carefully) > > > > > and > > > > > > made 100% in 5 short weeks, and since then have been in cash most > > of > > > > the > > > > > > time except for a few dismal attempts to reenter the market, > always > > > > > followed > > > > > > by a failure. Now, it seems like it may be the time to try again, > > > albeit > > > > > > carefully. My problem is that I have less than a $1,000 to > > > play > > > > > > with. Could anyone offer a way to screen CS stocks without paying > a > > > > > fortune? > > > > > > I used to use Tom's Weekly Weeview as a starting point for my > > > research, > > > > > but > > > > > > now I'm clueless. Any suggestions will be happily accepted. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > > > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > > > > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > > > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > > > > - > > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > > > > - > > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. > > > - > -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" > -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or > -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. - - - -To subscribe/unsubscribe, email "majordomo@xmission.com" - -In the email body, write "subscribe canslim" or - -"unsubscribe canslim". Do not use quotes in your email. ------------------------------ End of canslim-digest V2 #3554 ****************************** To unsubscribe to canslim-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe canslim-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.