Colours in the bush

my web pages --------------1FACEA6292EEEFE9E47EAB0B-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charlie Webb Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tribute Date: 23 May 2001 10:13:55 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_14ef.2638.7258 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, If you are able to visit Terry's grave would you do a tobacco or pipe tribute for me also? I already miss his letters and the chatting on the phone. Please mention, Mother Earth, Father Sun, and our Four Grandfathers, I know he will get the message. Mike I'll square with you later for any inconvenience or out of pocket costs. To Terry, I was "Cherokee Charlie" rather than the "Old Coyote" Doreen of course was "Rainfeather". Thank you Mike, I would appreciate greatly if this was in your power. Charlie Been rereading Terry Johnston's books in tribute to him. Like many of you, he helped ignite the spark in me to learn about the fur trade. Was wondering Hardtack- will we be close to where he is buried at? If so, might be nice to swing by and leave trinket at his resting place. Any thoughts? mike. ----__JNP_000_14ef.2638.7258 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thank you Mike, I would appreciate greatly if this was in your power.<= /DIV>

Charlie

Been rereading Terry Johnston's books in tribute to= him.=20 Like
many of you, he helped ignite the spark in me to learn about the=20
fur trade. Was wondering Hardtack- will we be close to where
he is= =20 buried at? If so, might be nice to swing by and leave trinket
at his = resting=20 place. Any thoughts?=20
= ; &= nbsp; =20 mike.

----__JNP_000_14ef.2638.7258-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mark scribner Subject: MtMan-List: Bacon and sidemeat Date: 23 May 2001 09:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Brother, I used this recipe last year for both bacon and sidemeat. I got it from a man who's business is to sell country cured hams and such. For his business he uses sodium nitrate only because the USDA requires it. For his personal, and family use, he mixes 1/6 curing salt, 1/3 brown sugar, 1/3 black pepper, & 1/6 red pepper flakes. Mix up enough to cover your bacon or sidemeat with a 1" thick layer, and set it aside in a cool place (about 40-45 degrees) for about a month. Following the curing time, take the bacon out of the mix, wash it, dry it, and hang it in a cheese cloth sack where the cool air will circulate around it. Bacon and side meat cures 3 times faster than hams will because of the thickness. After the curing time is over, you can smoke it if you want the smoke flavor, but it is necessary. When you get ready to fix it, wash the meat first, then slice it as thick as you want. Cook it SLOW because the sugar will cause it to take on a burnt look and flavor if you don't use a low heat. I personaly don't buy any store brand bacon any longer because once you taste this, you'll never be satisfied with Farmer John's again. Enjoy yourself, YOMS, Bear __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: Colours in the bush Date: 23 May 2001 11:59:47 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E3A9.C5EE7090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Chris Sega wrote "No-one would have spent time dying anything, and a buckskin shirt passes for camo pretty well. I'll bet Ol Gabe could sneak up on one of us wearin a dayglo orange tutu and tinkerbells because its skill, not how ya look. VBG" I appreciate the humour but, as one who has done bush time (in real honest-to-Gawd wilderness) as both quarry and hunter (where the quarry REALLY didn't want to be found and the hunter REALLY wanted to find the quarry), any colour that does not occur naturally in that local in that time of year is obvious to an experience bushman/woman from a considerable distance. If that out-of-place colour moves, it "jumps right out" for the experienced observer. I disagree that "camo" is a modern concept. A lot of Native "war paint" patterns have the effect of breaking up the silhouette and "confusing the eye". Stealth is only half of the equation in survival. An even greater factor is to not be recognized when seen. Anyone who has hunted in camo will understand the difference between the two. Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E3A9.C5EE7090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Colours in the bush

Chris Sega wrote "No-one = would have spent time dying anything, and a buckskin shirt passes for = camo pretty well. I'll bet Ol Gabe could sneak up on one of us wearin a = dayglo orange tutu and tinkerbells because its skill, not how ya look. = VBG"

I appreciate the humour but, as = one who has done bush time (in real honest-to-Gawd wilderness) as both = quarry and hunter (where the quarry REALLY didn't want to be found and = the hunter REALLY wanted to find the quarry), any colour that does not = occur naturally in that local in that time of year is obvious to an = experience bushman/woman from a considerable distance. If that = out-of-place colour moves, it "jumps right out" for the = experienced observer.

I disagree that "camo" = is a modern concept. A lot of Native "war paint" patterns = have the effect of breaking up the silhouette and "confusing the = eye".

Stealth is only half of the = equation in survival. An even greater factor is to not be recognized = when seen. Anyone who has hunted in camo will understand the difference = between the two.

Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne)

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E3A9.C5EE7090-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe Subject: Re: MtMan-List:black walnut fishing-- Date: 23 May 2001 10:11:41 -0700 (PDT) I remember my dad talking about Buckeyes. In much the same way as walnutsgrn > > Many years ago I heard the same thing but with > buckeyes. I never imagined it > would work with walnuts. Anyone - Lonnie - ever > try buckeyes?? > RJames > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: Round ball size Date: 23 May 2001 12:41:17 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E3AF.92223070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I finally got around to measuring the bore of my flintlock. It is 0.537 diameter bore and 0.555 across the grooves; 5 groves, slow twist. I have 0.015 patching. I want to keep the loads light. What size ball should I use for target plinking? I can't afford to buy a bunch of molds, so please give me your best guess! I don't know the make of this flintlock. It is 20-odd years old, made in Italy, and is marked with a capital "I" in a rectangle, an "AC" in a smaller rectangle, a small star in a circle with the letters "PN" underneath. It is a half-stock, octagon barrel, with a long blade front sight an adjustable rear sight and it has brass furniture. It was bought as a kit in the early days of reproduction "Hawkens" and sort-of-like-Hawkens when muzzle loading was first starting to reappear up here. Maybe someone out there recognizes what make it might be. Since I'd like to get into Fur Trade era re-enacting but don't want to spend a pile of money right away, I'd like to refurbish this flintlock to last me for awhile. I don't plan on attending any juried events but I don't want to walk into my first camp looking like a pilgrim either! I presume the dovetail-mounted front sight has to go. Would a post be the appropriate front sight? Can I slip a post into the dovetail or do I need to fill in the dovetail and get a gunsmith to drill and tap the barrel for a post? Secondly, I assume the adjustable rear sight (7" ahead of the breech plug) has to go to? Is there an acceptable sight that I can mount under one of the tang screws? Any other ideas to turn this into a fur trade gun? It is going to be carried by a mixed-blood woman who's only "half civilized". Thanks camp! Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E3AF.92223070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Round ball size

I finally got around to = measuring the bore of my flintlock. It is 0.537 diameter bore and 0.555 = across the grooves; 5 groves, slow twist. I have 0.015 patching. I want = to keep the loads light. What size ball should I use for target = plinking? I can't afford to buy a bunch of molds, so please give me = your best guess!

I don't know the make of this = flintlock. It is 20-odd years old, made in Italy, and is marked with a = capital "I" in a rectangle, an "AC" in a smaller rectangle, a small = star in a circle with the letters "PN" underneath. It is a half-stock, = octagon barrel, with a long blade front sight an adjustable rear sight = and it has brass furniture. It was bought as a kit in the early days of = reproduction "Hawkens" and sort-of-like-Hawkens when muzzle loading was = first starting to reappear up here. Maybe someone out there recognizes = what make it might be.

Since I'd like to get into Fur = Trade era re-enacting but don't want to spend a pile of money right = away, I'd like to refurbish this flintlock to last me for awhile. I = don't plan on attending any juried events but I don't want to walk into = my first camp looking like a pilgrim either!

I presume the dovetail-mounted = front sight has to go. Would a post be the appropriate front sight? Can = I slip a post into the dovetail or do I need to fill in the dovetail = and get a gunsmith to drill and tap the barrel for a post?

Secondly, I assume the = adjustable rear sight (7" ahead of the breech plug) has to go to? = Is there an acceptable sight that I can mount under one of the tang = screws? Any other ideas to turn this into a fur trade gun? It is going = to be carried by a mixed-blood woman who's only "half = civilized".

Thanks camp!

Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne)

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0E3AF.92223070-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:black walnut fishing-- Date: 23 May 2001 14:04:09 EDT In a message dated 5/23/1 11:12:41 AM, gnoe39@yahoo.com writes: <> George - what part of the country is home for you and your Dad?? Maybe this is a regional thing. RJames ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: camouflage (was: why walnut dye?) Date: 23 May 2001 11:29:48 -0600 "Tim Jewell" wrote: >The most common colors of both ready made items and material >do not seem to show any particular concern for trying to blend in to nature. This is also true of the earlier voyageur era (1774-1821) that I study--the most popular colors are red, blue, & white, with the occasional item in green or orange ("aurora"). Stripes & checks were also available, though uncommon. >Camoflage seems to be more of a 20th century concept. I think the mountain >man/frontiersman/indian etc. thought more along the idea of being stealthy >when needed. I agree. A few years back, when I was a fanatic birdwatcher (today I'm just keen on birding), I volunteered with the local bird sanctuary. I was dismayed to find that the volunteers were supposed to wear fluorescent orange traffic vests! (Not for safety, but for identification to sanctuary visitors.) Since birds have excellent color vision, I figured that my chances of seeing anything were slim to none. However, I continued to be quiet and move slowly, and found that the orange vest had only a small effect on the birds. And before you guys decide that, since I'm a birder, I must automatically be some kind of vegan PETA-supporting type, the answer is no. I don't hunt, but I'll eat moose every chance I get! Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe Subject: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-BUCKEYE Date: 23 May 2001 11:12:43 -0700 (PDT) I found the following in my "Flora Of Missouri" Aesculus glabra Wild. "Ohio Buckeye" and several subspecies, and Aesculus Pavia L. "Red Buckeye" In the discussion of The "Red Buckeye" he states;"Like A.glabra, the seeds and young foliage sepecially are poisonous. The powdreed seeds and crushed branches of A. Pavia, when placed in ponds or slow water, have been used to catch fish, which become stupified and float to the surface. The roots contain a saponin which has the property of foaming in water, and has been employed for its soap properties." > He mentions they are one of the earliest to leaf out, and the young leaves in early spring, when eaten by cattle, horses and pigs are poisonous. The seads are are poisonous to kids, and live stock. However, he states the seeds are rendered harmless when boiled or roasted. Aand were eatean by Indians as a starchy meal after being roasted. Is that about $0.02 worth ?? > I remember my dad talking about Buckeyes. In much > the > same way as walnuts grn > > > > Many years ago I heard the same thing but with > > buckeyes. I never imagined it > > would work with walnuts. Anyone - Lonnie - ever > > try buckeyes?? > > RJames > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ===== > George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > > > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the > skyline. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great > prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Round ball size Date: 23 May 2001 14:32:20 -0400 dianne---suggest you use a .535 round ball with patching from .010 to .017---the .010 gives you a total seal with about a couple of thousands squeeze on the ball---I would personally use the .o15-.017 ticking with the .535 round ball ---if you want to try the various 54 buillets I have 5 or 6 different molds here and usually a few bullets of each---from .527 to .562--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Funk" Subject: MtMan-List: Saddle for Sale.... Date: 23 May 2001 12:05:59 -0700 FOR SALE: Bob Schmidt, "Apple Horn, ca. 1824" saddle. The Apple Horn saddle was an early Spanish style saddle used throughout California and some parts of Mexico. Many traders and trappers acquired these saddles on their way through the California Territory. The saddle was often fitted with round mochilla, basically the covering that the rider sat on. They were furnished with rump cover for protecting the rider's clothes from horse sweat or as a seat for the rider's lady friend(s). This item was called an anquera. The stirrups (in this case) are rawhide covered, bent wood with plate style tapaderas. Apple Horn saddle complete with Skeleton rig w/ Pommel Bag, Gun Strap, Crupper, Round Mochilla, Anquera and Plate Tapadaras. Also included are: Saddle Bags Breast Collar (wool covered) The saddle was purchased new about a year and a half ago for $1165.00 plus shipping. It has been used about 8 times and is in excellent condition. Will sell complete rig for: $900.00 (plus shipping) Contact: John Funk j2hearts@shasta.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Round ball size Date: 23 May 2001 17:34:00 EDT --part1_90.14c2b0b1.283d86c8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/23/01 1:42:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes: > I don't know the make of this flintlock. It is 20-odd years old, made in > Italy, and is marked with a capital "I" in a rectangle, an "AC" in a > smaller rectangle, a small star in a circle with the letters "PN" > underneath. The marks you have are Investarm s.p.a. Fabbrica D'Armi, they make and sell guns under their own name and for other such as Lyman, my Lyman .50 cal Plains Pistol is theirs and came with their instruction manual. Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes --part1_90.14c2b0b1.283d86c8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/23/01 1:42:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes:

I don't know the make of this flintlock. It is 20-odd years old, made in
Italy, and is marked with a capital "I" in a rectangle, an "AC" in a
smaller rectangle, a small star in a circle with the letters "PN"
underneath.

The marks you have are Investarm s.p.a. Fabbrica D'Armi, they make and sell
guns under their own name and for other such as Lyman, my Lyman .50 cal
Plains Pistol is theirs and came with their instruction manual.

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes
--part1_90.14c2b0b1.283d86c8_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Round ball size Date: 23 May 2001 16:01:09 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0384_01C0E3A1.94E2B860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Round ball size ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Best, Dianne=20 To: 'MountainMan Digest'=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:41 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Round ball size I finally got around to measuring the bore of my flintlock. It is = 0.537 diameter bore and 0.555 across the grooves; 5 groves, slow twist. = I have 0.015 patching. I want to keep the loads light. What size ball = should I use for target plinking? I can't afford to buy a bunch of = molds, so please give me your best guess! Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne)=20 Sounds like you have a .54 cal or close enough. I would imagine that a = .530 or smaller pure lead ball and patching of .015 give or take will = work. Your best bet is to order some ready made balls in .530 and see if = you can get them to load with an appropriate patch thickness. That might = be the patching you have or something thicker or thinner. If that just = doesn't work (too hard to load no matter what you try in the way of = patching, then get some slightly smaller balls and use slightly thicker = patches. No guarentee you will have an accurate load but you have to = start some place. Remember you will have to play around with the = patch/ball/powder combo. Start with a modest load of say, 70 grains of = 3f or 2f and work it up and down five grains at a time until she prints = tight at 25 yards. Shoot from a rest so you know it's the gun and not = you that is missing or hitting on. You prove nothing shooting off hand = while working up a load. Maybe someone out there recognizes what make it might be. I don't recognize the maker or make. I presume the dovetail-mounted front sight has to go.=20 Actually no. The dovetailed front sight is fine although it may be too = hight or too wide, both conditions can be remedied with a file as you = sight the new rear sight in. Secondly, I assume the adjustable rear sight (7" ahead of the breech = plug) has to go to?=20 That actually does have to go for some shoots. The adjustable part. = You can order or make a fixed rear sight to be dovetailed into the = barrel at whatever distance you find good eye relief. I like mine about = where the rear ram rod pipe enters the stock but younger eyes can get by = with it closer to the breech. Your preference. Get the sight (less than = $10) and cut the dovetail with small triangle files to fit the sight. I = recommend a simple flat topped sight rather than a "buckhorn".=20 Is there an acceptable sight that I can mount under one of the tang = screws? Any other ideas to turn this into a fur trade gun? It is going = to be carried by a mixed-blood woman who's only "half civilized". Without seeing it, I can't recommend any other changes. Keep in mind = that your biggest problem with this gun is likely going to be the lock's = reliablility. That may take some simple tuneing or perhaps a rehardening = of the frizzen if you don't get reliable ignition. You may also want to = realine the touch hole so it is centered in the pan at the top of the = pan or slightly higher. I recommend a "Jim Chambers" "White Lightening" = touch hole liner but that will require someone with a drill press and = the proper drill bit and tap. Once you have been around other shooters, you may decide you want to = customize the gun a bit. These guns usually all have way more wood on = them than originals do and it is not out of the realm of possibility for = you to "carve" it down a bit and refinish with a nice oil finish. Good = luck on your project and activities. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------=_NextPart_000_0384_01C0E3A1.94E2B860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Round ball size

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Best, = Dianne=20