From: "Fred A. Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Killing coyotes Date: 01 Aug 2002 02:49:49 -0400 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 31 July 2002 2:09 pm, busterize wrote: > While I am an excellent shot with a handgun I have never used a rifle (= hate > to admit that, having grown up in a family full of hunters) and, while = I > have little aversion to killing coyotes, we just aren't that deep in th= e > woods here (damn progress all over -- got to protect the wild beasties = and > not disturb the neighbors). I thank whomever suggested the airhorn. I t= hink > I'll try it. I'm often close enough to use a bow.....quiet and deadly. Fred - --=20 Never forget: At Microsoft, the engineering department are the=20 Ferengi... The marketing and legal departments are the Borg! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj1I2g0ACgkQeNJ3p8sZ/uv6iwCfQ7KPJbscWiw5X+qEJ88bnzHW 0uoAn3a6crhlUIUUPAJLzzmqshKLJka/ =3DYV9W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Duncan Macready Subject: Re: MtMan-List: copper frying pan Date: 01 Aug 2002 21:42:41 +1200 Frank wrote. Trees grow from the top. A nail put in a small tree three feet off the ground will still be three feet off the ground fifty or a hundred years later . So hang a frypan on the top of a small tree and it will still be there fifty or a hundred years later.? Cheers Dunc ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: anyone home?? Date: 02 Aug 2002 10:06:09 -0400 Just got back from the NLRHF Midwest... great time, but they got more bugs than south Florida!!! Haven't seen any postings thoough from here... regards, Ad ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: copper frying pan Date: 02 Aug 2002 09:16:09 -0500 Duncan wrote, Touche' :-) Frank ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: Independence, MO Date: 02 Aug 2002 13:41:51 -0700 Since many of the emigrant and trappers' supply trains left from Independecne, can anyone tell me what the terrain is like around there -- hilly, grassy plains or prairies? Oh, & thanks for the info Barney -- and believe me, I wouldn't shoot a coyote unless he was actually threatening me or my dogs. These just "follow" us, yipping, growling, barking and acting like we are trespassers. Geri ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Independence, MO Date: 02 Aug 2002 16:24:41 -0500 Hilly, grassy, well forested. Humid, hot, infested with every crawling, flying, biting, stinging, poisonous insect and reptile known to creation. As long as you don't insist on being at the top of the food chain you'll get along fine. John... At 03:41 PM 8/2/02, you wrote: >Since many of the emigrant and trappers' supply trains left from >Independecne, can anyone tell me what the terrain is like around there -- >hilly, grassy plains or prairies? > >Oh, & thanks for the info Barney -- and believe me, I wouldn't shoot a >coyote unless he was actually threatening me or my dogs. These just >"follow" us, yipping, growling, barking and acting like we are trespassers. > >Geri > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. john AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle": http://conner110.tripod.com/AMM-hunt.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Independence, MO Date: 02 Aug 2002 18:30:07 -0400 Ahh. The MO. I remember... Thanks for reminding me why I am not going back, John.. D ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:24 PM > Hilly, grassy, well forested. Humid, hot, infested with every crawling, > flying, biting, stinging, poisonous insect and reptile known to > creation. As long as you don't insist on being at the top of the food > chain you'll get along fine. > > John... > > > At 03:41 PM 8/2/02, you wrote: > >Since many of the emigrant and trappers' supply trains left from > >Independecne, can anyone tell me what the terrain is like around there -- > >hilly, grassy plains or prairies? > > > >Oh, & thanks for the info Barney -- and believe me, I wouldn't shoot a > >coyote unless he was actually threatening me or my dogs. These just > >"follow" us, yipping, growling, barking and acting like we are trespassers. > > > >Geri > > > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. > john > > AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle": > http://conner110.tripod.com/AMM-h unt.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Independence, MO Date: 02 Aug 2002 17:32:07 -0600 on 8/2/02 4:30 PM, Double Edge Forge at deforge1@bright.net wrote: > Ahh. The MO. I remember... Thanks for reminding me why I am not going back, > John.. > D > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Kramer" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:24 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Independence, MO > > >> Hilly, grassy, well forested. Humid, hot, infested with every crawling, >> flying, biting, stinging, poisonous insect and reptile known to >> creation. As long as you don't insist on being at the top of the food >> chain you'll get along fine. >> >> John... >> >> >> At 03:41 PM 8/2/02, you wrote: >>> Since many of the emigrant and trappers' supply trains left from >>> Independecne, can anyone tell me what the terrain is like around there -- >>> hilly, grassy plains or prairies? >>> >>> Oh, & thanks for the info Barney -- and believe me, I wouldn't shoot a >>> coyote unless he was actually threatening me or my dogs. These just >>> "follow" us, yipping, growling, barking and acting like we are > trespassers. >>> >>> Geri >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------- >>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. >> john >> >> AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle": >> > http://conner110.tripod.com/AMM-h > unt.html >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Dennis, Salt Lake temperature today was 87 Deg. at 15% humidity, no critters to eat us. Still could use a Blacksmith in the near future. Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Independence, MO Date: 02 Aug 2002 20:35:46 EDT --part1_d4.1b1f3b7b.2a7c7f62_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/2/2002 1:51:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, busterize@oldwest.net writes: > I wouldn't shoot a coyote....These just "follow" us, yipping, growling, > barking and acting like we are trespassers. that'd be 'cuz you, like the rest of us, are Barn --part1_d4.1b1f3b7b.2a7c7f62_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/2/2002 1:51:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, busterize@oldwest.net writes:

I wouldn't shoot a coyote....These just "follow" us, yipping, growling, barking and acting like we are trespassers.

that'd be 'cuz you, like the rest of us, are <GGG>

Barn

--part1_d4.1b1f3b7b.2a7c7f62_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Independence, MO Date: 02 Aug 2002 22:43:25 -0400 > >> Hilly, grassy, well forested. Humid, hot, infested with every crawling, > >> flying, biting, stinging, insect and known to creation. Geez... that sounds like Fort Folle Avoinne in Wisconsin where the MidWest was... They had VAMPIRE flies there that took showers in 100% DEET and begged for more... Regards, Ad ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Independence, MO Date: 02 Aug 2002 23:36:14 EDT --part1_14b.11d8a5f3.2a7ca9ae_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm no trepasser. The Creator put me on this earth, my forefathers fought and sweated to conquer this land, I bought and paid for my little piece of it. I've got as much right to live on it as any ol' 'yote. Respectfully, jr sweet --part1_14b.11d8a5f3.2a7ca9ae_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm no trepasser. The Creator put me on this earth, my forefathers fought and sweated to conquer this land, I bought and paid for my little piece of it. I've got as much right to live on it as any ol' 'yote.

Respectfully,

jr sweet --part1_14b.11d8a5f3.2a7ca9ae_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The wind is everything Date: 03 Aug 2002 06:05:20 -0700 On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:44:47 GazeingCyot wrote: >Concho >Sorry to say but all that stuff is made for one reason and that is to get you to buy it. For when you start walking or doing any thing that causes your body to warm up you give of odor and they can smell ya. I have had my best luck with just rubbing elk urine on me when hunting but ya got to do it regularly or your stink will come through... >See ya on the trail >Crazy Cyot > Crazy, Been out in the field doing research on a new fine in the northwest section of the state, an unknown village just discovered. We have to mark and ident. the area on maps then bring in the college students to start the dig. Reason for not coming right back with an answer. Whatever you/me or whoever uses has a marketing background Crazy, that's what pays the bills, not ours but theirs. Probably the one person we both know that has shot as much or more game animals over the years is Buck C., the reason I say that is he hunted for the state of PA after coming back from E. Asia as an animal control agent, didn't try and save them in the 60's, just got rid of the problems and he was good at his job. He would probably agree with you on most of what you said except for the soap that takes out the "brighteners" that regular soap adds when clothes are washed. I've seen him and several of his hunting friends crawl up close enough to have made meat with a hawk on antelope, granded they are not as leary as white tail, but still the animals never looked their way in the process of getting close. What I had mentioned was what I see when in the field checking hunters in our seasons here in PA, the bow hunters with some of the items mentioned seem to have the most success. Most animal urine will work, in E. Asia the VC could pick up our sense from our urine and other waste because of our diet - reason why special forces started eating the same thing they ate. As far as smoking, that's been an on going "do and don't" subject for decades, probably today more than ever before; maybe some parents use it as a "carrot" to keep the kids from smoking. . Concho __________________________________________________________ Win a First Class Trip to Hawaii to Vacation Elvis Style! http://r.lycos.com/r/sagel_mail/http://www.elvis.lycos.com/sweepstakes ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Geisinger" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The wind is everything Date: 03 Aug 2002 07:47:47 -0700 Klahowya, Gentleman, please do not forget to consider the then-v-now factor. Then most animals were not as trained to fear man and the things associated with them. Most of the animals in the Rockies had only been exposed to Indians and trappers. Indians live inside chimmneys (teepee), smoked their wearing apparell and smoked various forms of tobbacco. It would seem that their biggest obstacle was sight as they often used camaflage and animal hides to creep closer to animals. With buffalo jumps I do not think wind was a factor, they crept up and then drove the herd in the correct direction. If they had to wait for the right wind most of the jumps would not have gotten used. I do not believe that Indian and trapper were very concerned with their smell or tobacco use. The majority of period accounts and the supply lists indicate that tabbacco was a desired item. There are mixed accounts on body odor and bathing, as some complain about the odor of others and some do not. Obviosly some had more delicate noses (probably non-smokers and new comers) than others. And they probably bathed more often. Accounts also indicate that bathing was done before approaching known groups of people, like rendezvous, forts etc. Don't you think that when someone took the time to note how smelly their aquaintances were they would have further noted that the party was starving and that it was due to not getting close enough to animals to make meat. The thought probably never occured to them, which would mean it was not a problem. PoorBoy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Independence, MO Date: 03 Aug 2002 13:37:24 EDT --part1_12a.152166df.2a7d6ed4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/2/2002 8:37:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Hawkengun@aol.com writes: > I've got as much right to live on it as any ol' 'yote. JR, Seems you took my comment WAY too seriously. In case you aren't familiar with internet symbolism, the at the end of my post indicated a tongue-in-cheek grin......... Barney --part1_12a.152166df.2a7d6ed4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/2/2002 8:37:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Hawkengun@aol.com writes:

I've got as much right to live on it as any ol' 'yote

.

JR, Seems you took my comment WAY too seriously. In case you aren't familiar with internet symbolism, the <GGG> at the end of my post indicated a tongue-in-cheek grin......... Barney --part1_12a.152166df.2a7d6ed4_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Laguna Mountain Rendezvous - October 2002 Date: 04 Aug 2002 02:20:50 EDT --part1_ce.2a71885a.2a7e21c2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For all who may be attending the LAGUNA MOUNTAIN RENDEZVOUS, in the Mesa Grande/Santa Ysabel area of Southern California, please take note, AND PASS THE WORD, that there will be NO OPEN FIRES at the event this coming October. Propane, Butane, etc will be permitted. If you have any questions, contact the Booshway, Mitch Foster @ (661) 763-3634. Barney --part1_ce.2a71885a.2a7e21c2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For all who may be attending the LAGUNA MOUNTAIN RENDEZVOUS, in the Mesa
Grande/Santa Ysabel area of Southern California, please take note, AND PASS THE WORD, that there will be NO OPEN FIRES at the event this coming October. Propane, Butane, etc will be permitted. If you have any questions, contact the
Booshway, Mitch Foster @ (661) 763-3634. Barney

--part1_ce.2a71885a.2a7e21c2_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: Transport Utility Trailer for sale Date: 04 Aug 2002 23:19:29 -0400 pleasae excuse the cross posting and the obvious commercialism here... I have a 1997 Mohawk (I think), 6 X 12 X 7 utility trailer for sale if anyone is interested. It has dual axels (rated for 6000#), electric brakes, and a spare tire. The interior has been shelved for ease of loading and unloading, and upper carriers (inside) for tent poles, ridge poles, etc... up to 11'6" long. It is registered in W Va with a permanent plate. If anyone is interested, contace me OFF LIST at admiller@citynet.net . I'll be posting pix on a back page of my web site and I'll post the address later when pix are there. I will deliver, if necessary, within a radius of 300 miles of Alderson, WV, but prefer you come pick it up... *grins* regards, Ad Miller Alderson, WV ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti) Subject: MtMan-List: man attacked by cougar kills animal with Date: 05 Aug 2002 23:32:01 -0400 (EDT) Address:http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWS/cougar_aug2-cp.html was also posted on cnn.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Michigan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Windwalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: man attacked by cougar kills animal with3.5" pocket knife Date: 06 Aug 2002 00:26:55 -0400 Bet that will drive the animal rights people bonkers ! ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 11:32 PM knife > > Address:http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWS/cougar_aug2-cp.html > > was also posted on cnn.com > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > from Michigan > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/3/02 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: toboggan Date: 06 Aug 2002 21:03:13 EDT Here's a web page/instructions that Bead sent me, to make a toboggan, much like the one Crazy made. After I'm done building my crawdad trap, it will be my next project....and mebbe even have it done before the snow flies! Copy_of_Trailt1.gif http://www.inquiry.net/images/Copy_of_Trailt1.gif Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Fire power Date: 07 Aug 2002 23:53:29 EDT .... "In observing the effect produced by guns of different calibres, it was found that the rifles of small bore taking from 60 to 70 balls to the pound (.40-.44cal approx) very frequently did not kill, although they might hit: while rifles taking from 30 to 40 to the pound (.50-.54cal approx) seldom missed killing on the spot. It was therefore settled that the rifles of larger calibre should be used in all places where animals proved scarce." Alexander Ross, 1823 (The Fur Hunters of the Far West) Things haven't changed much, but this is interesting in that there were apparently quite a few "small bore" rifles in the Snake River party.... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Traveling light Date: 08 Aug 2002 00:09:17 EDT .... " Each man was provided with half a dozen pairs of Indian shoes, a blanket to sleep in, ammunition, a small axe, a knife, a fire steel and an awl; together with some needles, thread, and tobacco to smoke, all of which he had to carry on his back, and his gun on his shoulder. Each person had the same weight to carry; and this constituted the whole of our traveling baggage with the exception of a cooking kettle and a pint pot. It is the same equipment in all such cases, be the journey for a week, for a month, or for the year. Depending all the time on our guns for our subsistence and for a further supply of shoes, and clothes on the skins of the animals we might chance to kill on our way." Alexander Ross, 1817 Ah.....looks like I'm gonna have to get rid of some more of my gear... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Roberts" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Traveling light Date: 08 Aug 2002 06:42:39 -0400 Magpie, Don't start pitching gear just yet. Reading ahead only a few short seasons, our friend Al Ross (Snake River Expedition 1824) is now sporting 16 horses and a lodge, and I'm going to make a wild guess that his lodge was not empty. Just goes to show that the older you get, the more stuff you have to carry. Tom ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 12:09 AM > .... " Each man was provided with half a dozen pairs of Indian shoes, a > blanket to sleep in, ammunition, a small axe, a knife, a fire steel and an > awl; together with some needles, thread, and tobacco to smoke, all of which > he had to carry on his back, and his gun on his shoulder. Each person had the > same weight to carry; and this constituted the whole of our traveling baggage > with the exception of a cooking kettle and a pint pot. It is the same > equipment in all such cases, be the journey for a week, for a month, or for > the year. Depending all the time on our guns for our subsistence and for a > further supply of shoes, and clothes on the skins of the animals we might > chance to kill on our way." Alexander Ross, 1817 > > Ah.....looks like I'm gonna have to get rid of some more of my gear... > > Magpie > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: fire power Date: 08 Aug 2002 08:26:47 -0500 Magpie, while that is interesting history, let us keep in mind that it was 1823. The quality of black powder was very uncertain at the time and, I suspect, of much lower grade than what we are used to. Also, what kind of game they were shooting at is a major factor. 100 pound whitetails or one ton buff? Makes a difference. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Traveling light Date: 08 Aug 2002 09:56:31 -0400 > Don't start pitching gear just yet. Reading ahead only a few short seasons, > our friend Al Ross (Snake River Expedition 1824) is now sporting 16 horses > and a lodge, and I'm going to make a wild guess that his lodge was not > empty. Just goes to show that the older you get, the more stuff you have to > carry. Geez... this guy sounds like me... When I started out in 1989, everything for my Pard and me fit in the back of my Jeep Cherokee... then, 12 years later, it was the back of a Chev 1500 P/U AND a 6x12x7 utility trailer!!! ...and that was just for the Mouse and me. Now, we are DOWNSIZING to the truck and a 5x8 trailer. At Eastern next month, a WHOLE lot of stuff is going up for sale... Vicki (Mouse) is going to take her herbal store, Meadowsweet, on the road, so I might as well get rid of all my extra stuff... As I advise anyone just starting out... Leave money and credit cards at home until you decide what you really NEED!!"... *grins* Shoulda followed my own advice. If anyone is interested, I am selling my big trailer... pix will be on a page later today... will post when it is done... Regards, Ad ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: fire power Date: 08 Aug 2002 09:31:27 -0700 In the notes in the back of Stewart's book, he extolls the virtues of his large-caliber Manton rifle (16 balls per pound), and declares that in the hands of his preferred hunter, it took more game with less lead than the American rifles carrying 30-40 balls per pound. I believe this is the same quote referring to "miserable shot-out flintlocks" so presumably he is saying that the smaller caliber rifles missed a lot. This referred to the 1833-1837 period. Pat Quilter Magpie, while that is interesting history, let us keep in mind that it was 1823. The quality of black powder was very uncertain at the time and, I suspect, of much lower grade than what we are used to. Also, what kind of game they were shooting at is a major factor. 100 pound whitetails or one ton buff? Makes a difference. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fire power Date: 08 Aug 2002 13:06:48 EDT In a message dated 8/8/02 6:28:51 AM, Rifleman1776@centurytel.net writes: << Magpie, while that is interesting history, let us keep in mind that it was 1823. The quality of black powder was very uncertain at the time and, I suspect, of much lower grade than what we are used to. Also, what kind of game they were shooting at is a major factor. 100 pound whitetails or one ton buff? >> Apparently the powder was good enough to kill buffalo, elk, mule deer, and an occasional Indian... but there were many inexperienced with the rifle.... "I observed to them that there appeared to be a great and unnecessary waste of ammunition in camp. That hitherto when the party was traveling half of the people, the ignorant as well as the experienced hunters, were occupied in pursuit of game, by which the animals were more frequently frightened than killed.... "To this end it was settled that four hunters in turn should precede the camp daily, and all the rest attend to other duties...." Ross 1823-24 Sounds like "flock" shooting to me... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Traveling light Date: 08 Aug 2002 13:22:07 EDT In a message dated 8/8/02 3:44:25 AM, flint54@cfl.rr.com writes: << Don't start pitching gear just yet. Reading ahead only a few short seasons, our friend Al Ross (Snake River Expedition 1824) is now sporting 16 horses and a lodge, and I'm going to make a wild guess that his lodge was not empty. Just goes to show that the older you get, the more stuff you have to carry. >> Haaaaaa..... True....and Alex was just a lowly trader on foot for the NWCo back in 1817... ...And here is what he had on that first Snake River Expedition... "...in all 55 persons, (not counting 25 women and 64 children) each of which had to be fitted out according to his capacity as a hunter with a gun, from two to four horses, and from six to ten steel traps besides clothing and ammunition, and generally on credit... "The rest of the equipment consisted of seventy-five guns, a brass three pounder, two hundred and twelve beaver traps (!) and three hundred ninety and two horses, together with a good stock of powder and ball and some trading articles" I'm still gonna get rid of the 18 wheeler..... Magpie PS: is "The Fur Hunters of the Far West" a great read, or what??!!! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: The Ram's Head Date: 08 Aug 2002 13:37:16 EDT Another growing tree story..... ....."and about five feet from the ground is growing up with the tree, a ram's head with the horns still attached to it! and so fixed and embedded is it in the tree it must have grown up with it. One of the horns and more than half of the head is buried in the tree; but most of the other horn, and part of the head, protrudes out at least a foot..... The tree is scarcely two feet in diameter." Ross 1824 Whoa..... The Ram's Head or Medicine Tree is close to the bank of the East Fork of the Bitterroot River, near the mouth of Medicine Creek...... Anyone ever see this tree, or is it still standing? Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Chronister Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Ram's Head Date: 08 Aug 2002 11:50:01 -0600 I think that it fell during the last couple of years. Allen Chronister SWcushing@aol.com wrote: > Another growing tree story..... > > ....."and about five feet from the ground is growing up with the tree, a > ram's head with the horns still attached to it! and so fixed and embedded is > it in the tree it must have grown up with it. One of the horns and more than > half of the head is buried in the tree; but most of the other horn, and part > of the head, protrudes out at least a foot..... The tree is scarcely two feet > in diameter." Ross 1824 > > Whoa..... The Ram's Head or Medicine Tree is close to the bank of the East > Fork of the Bitterroot River, near the mouth of Medicine Creek...... Anyone > ever see this tree, or is it still standing? > > Magpie > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wahkahchim@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Blunderbusses Date: 08 Aug 2002 18:05:51 -0400 Why were they used as a camp tool by Mountain men? My family history lists several in old records in California as "escopetas". What were they for? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Blunderbusses Date: 09 Aug 2002 9:3:14 -0700 Scatter guns were a popular item for the camp guard at night, also would come in handy during an attack. an escopeta is a spanish smooth bore carried by the spanish soldiers, etc... hardtack > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 8/8/02 3:05:51 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Blunderbusses > > Why were they used as a camp tool by Mountain men? My family history lists several in old records in California as "escopetas". What were they for? > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --- Randal Bublitz --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers, we are Borrowing it from our Chil ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blunderbusses Date: 09 Aug 2002 18:01:18 EDT --part1_193.b3c1bac.2a8595ae_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable info on escopeta >=20 > =20 > The Spanish Escopeta =20 > The escopeta, a light, smoothbore, muzzle-loading musket or carbine was a=20 > popular weapon of the 18th century soldado de cuera. Made with a Spanish o= r=20 > miguelet lock and a Catalan stock, t= his sturdy and dependable weapon saw=20 > use for nearly 200 years on the northern frontier. There were many=20 > variations in barrel length, and stock design, but the miguelet lock was=20 > commonly used. In 1786, escopetas purchased for frontier use cost the Crow= n=20 > 6 pesos, 5 reales, 9 grains. The Model illustrated was made by Antonio=20 > Guisasola of Eibar, Spain, about 1800. It is caliber .75 with a Catalan=20 > stock and a 33 1/2-inch barrel. The quality of the piece indicates that it= =20 > was carried by a gentleman or officer. This escopeta is in the William=20 > Renwick Collection, Tucson. Photograph by BRUCE D. LINDSAY. =A9 1965, Ariz= ona=20 > Historical Foundation=20 >=20 >=20 =20 --part1_193.b3c1bac.2a8595ae_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable info on escopeta

The Spanish=20= Escopeta
The escopeta, a light, smoothbore, muzzle-loading musket or carbine was a po= pular weapon of the 18th century soldado de cuera. Made with a Spanis= h or miguelet lock and a Catalan stock= , this sturdy and dependable weapon saw use for nearly 200 years on the nort= hern frontier. There were many variations in barrel length, and stock design= , but the miguelet lock was commonly used. In 1786, escopetas purchased for=20= frontier use cost the Crown 6 pesos, 5 reales, 9 grains. The Model illustrat= ed was made by Antonio Guisasola of Eibar, Spain, about 1800. It is caliber=20= .75 with a Catalan stock and a 33 1/2-inch barrel. The quality of the piece=20= indicates that it was carried by a gentleman or officer. This escopeta is in the William Renwick Collect= ion, Tucson. Photograph by BRUCE D. LINDSAY. =A9 1965, Arizona Histor= ical Foundation

--part1_193.b3c1bac.2a8595ae_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wahkahchim@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blunderbusses Date: 09 Aug 2002 18:32:16 EDT Thank you! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Keelboat trips! Date: 09 Aug 2002 20:04:46 -0600 (MDT) Dear List, My good friend Mike Nottingham of Loma Montana is offering a special deal to buckskinners on trips down the Muddy Mo in his keelboat. I've been with Mike on several trips and he is an excellent guide. He knows all the old trade fort locations, Lewis & Clark sites and his great, great grandfather actually owned one of the forts. If you ever wanted to see the historical section of the Upper Missouri in a truly unique way, check out Mike's web page. mrkeelboat@montana.com "Buckskinner Special These trips are for groups that want to do a primitive or historical trek. What this includes is a 4 day guided keelboat trek thru the wild and scenic upper Missouri river, shuttles to and from launch and take out site, all potable water, kitchen and cooking gear. We are able only to offer this package at this price to folks who provide their own tentage and meals (including enough for a crew of three oarsmen). The price of these trips will be $125.00 per person per day. All keelboat prices based on a 6 person minimum". Again, I make not a cent off of this deal, I just wanted all to know about Mike's neat Keelboat trips. It is the neatest way to go down the Mighty Missouri. Mike is a trapper, and longtime buckskinner and really knows his stuff! He'a also a heck of a guy! Trips are only possible during high water so check with him, he also does canoe trips. Its nice to go with an outfitter that knows about primitive trekking and knows the important sites to see for a buckskinner. You won't be sorry. Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Windwalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Keelboat trips! Date: 09 Aug 2002 22:15:52 -0400 If you ever wanted to see the historical section of the Upper Missouri in a truly unique way, check out Mike's web page. mrkeelboat@montana.com Thats a email address not a web address ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 10:04 PM > Dear List, > My good friend Mike Nottingham of Loma Montana is offering a special > deal to buckskinners on trips down the Muddy Mo in his keelboat. I've been > with Mike on several trips and he is an excellent guide. He knows all the > old trade fort locations, Lewis & Clark sites and his great, great > grandfather actually owned one of the forts. If you ever wanted to see the > historical section of the Upper Missouri in a truly unique way, check out > Mike's web page. mrkeelboat@montana.com > "Buckskinner Special > These trips are for groups that want to do a primitive or > historical trek. What this includes is a 4 day guided keelboat trek thru > the wild and scenic upper Missouri river, shuttles to and from launch and > take out site, all potable water, kitchen and cooking gear. > We are able only to offer this package at this price to folks who > provide their own tentage and meals (including enough for a crew of three > oarsmen). The price of these trips will be $125.00 per person per day. All > keelboat prices based on a 6 person minimum". > Again, I make not a cent off of this deal, I just wanted all to know > about Mike's neat Keelboat trips. It is the neatest way to go down the > Mighty Missouri. Mike is a trapper, and longtime buckskinner and really > knows his stuff! He'a also a heck of a guy! > Trips are only possible during high water so check with him, he also > does canoe trips. Its nice to go with an outfitter that knows about > primitive trekking and knows the important sites to see for a buckskinner. > You won't be sorry. > Beaverboy > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: www.mrkeelboat.com Date: 09 Aug 2002 20:31:34 -0600 (MDT) Windwalker, Your right, Its www.mrkeelboat.com I'm a computer idiot sometimes. Hey, Windwalker I'm sorry if I got you mad awhile back. I did not mean any disrespect to you or the list. Sometimes I missunderstand posts and sometimes people take my posts the wrong way too. I have a great respect for all woodsmen wiser than me, and respect for all woodsmen period, this you know. I hope everyone has a nice weekend! Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wahkahchim@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Keelboat trips! Date: 10 Aug 2002 15:11:48 EDT When is high water? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JW Stephens Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Keelboat trips! Date: 10 Aug 2002 13:46:49 -0700 Next year. This year there was "high use season" on the Seedskadee, but no high water. When we went through Ladore Canyon on 4 June the flow had already petered out (700 cfs 'sted of the usual 2000+). Even before that date the inflow to the reservoir above flaming gorge was 1/3 of usual. Hopefully the UMO did better. B'st'rd Wahkahchim@aol.com wrote: >=20 > When is high water? --=20 =93What the world ... needs now ... is a mail client ... that bounces SPA= M. Back to the dark hole from whence it first reared its ugly head. Automati= cally.=94 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Keelboat trips! Date: 10 Aug 2002 14:54:18 -0600 Until this year's rain, high water was about 5 years ago. Spring through early summer is usually good water. It varies year to year but water starts falling to lower levels in August and September. Mr. Keelboat is the one to ask that question to though: keelboat@mtintouch.com he's got year's of experience down there. Gene "Bead Shooter" Hickman Helena, Montana ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 1:11 PM > When is high water? > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: FW: Re: MtMan-List: Keelboat trips! Date: 10 Aug 2002 15:45:45 -0700 > [Original Message] > From: Randal Bublitz > To: Gene Hickman > Date: 8/10/02 3:45:22 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Keelboat trips! > > I've canoed the Upper Missouri (white cliffs area) twice. May/June is high water. By July it's dropping fast. hardtack > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Gene Hickman > > To: > > Date: 8/10/02 1:54:18 PM > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Keelboat trips! > > > > Until this year's rain, high water was about 5 years ago. Spring through > > early summer is usually good water. It varies year to year but water starts > > falling to lower levels in August and September. Mr. Keelboat is the one to > > ask that question to though: keelboat@mtintouch.com he's got year's of > > experience down there. > > > > Gene "Bead Shooter" Hickman > > Helena, Montana > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 1:11 PM > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Keelboat trips! > > > > > > > When is high water? > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > --- Randal Bublitz > --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net > we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fa --- Randal Bublitz --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net we have NOT inherited the Earth from ou ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Don & Janice Shero" Subject: MtMan-List: fire power Date: 10 Aug 2002 19:35:43 -0500 just pondering what percentage of rifles carried to the mountains were (light) .40-.45 ish caliber. Is it possible these inexperienced and eastern woodlanders, these guys were poor range finders in the western mts. , they were used to some shooting, but relative close shooting back home in the forest, and out west blasted away targets at 200 yds + ? I don't recall much being said about shots listed in actual measureable distances. Don ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover Subject: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes Date: 10 Aug 2002 23:06:42 -0600 Hello all, I just purchased a used Aluminum canoe and would like to "artifake" it by painting it to look like a birchbark. Does anyone have any good photos or links which would give me some ideas on how it should look? Thanks for any help or suggestions. "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Blunderbusses Date: 11 Aug 2002 15:40:46 -0700 Hardtack, Buck Conner has a like new blunderbuss (original) that he picked up for a present for his father in the late 50's. After his father received it he checked the bore and found it was loaded, this is what's interesting. Buck has an old glass rolling pin used for baking that his father put the contents of the brass barreled blunderbuss in; 1st load removed was old cloth with a stripe print, small square cut nails and broken green glass, more of the same cloth, then very fine powder (like cigar ash) - 2nd load was similar patching/different print, a half dozen lead balls about 36 or 38 cal., a small handmade iron chain (8-9" long), more patching and then fine powder like first load removed. The lock is very large with a "French Amber" flint wrapped in leather and it still throws a shower of sparks. From the proof marks and inspector marks this blunderbuss belonged to the British Navy and has a pre-1760's date. Write him and see if he'll sent you a picture, it is a very nice piece. What a tipi sweeper this would have been in a mountain camp. Later Concho [HRD] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Historical Research & Development "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/ Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/ See the AMM site for more supporters of this event. On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 9:3:14 -0 Randal Bublitz wrote: >Scatter guns were a popular item for the camp guard at night, also would >come in handy during an attack. an escopeta is a spanish smooth bore >carried by the spanish soldiers, etc... hardtack > > >> [Original Message] >> From: >> To: > > Date: 8/8/02 3:05:51 PM >> Subject: MtMan-List: Blunderbusses >> >> Why were they used as a camp tool by Mountain men? My family history >lists several in old records in California as "escopetas". What were they >for? >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >--- Randal Bublitz >--- rjbublitz@earthlink.net >we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers, > we are Borrowing it from our Chil > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > __________________________________________________________ Win a First Class Trip to Hawaii to Vacation Elvis Style! http://r.lycos.com/r/sagel_mail/http://www.elvis.lycos.com/sweepstakes ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes Date: 11 Aug 2002 15:46:17 -0700 Todd, Contact Buck Conner, he has done a dozen of them made of aluminum to kelvar and they look good, he did a series years ago for the COHT on doing what you want, and I saw those photo's at his place a few months ago. He not on this list but you can contact him through the AMM site. Later Concho [HRD] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Historical Research & Development "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/ Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/ See the AMM site for more supporters of this event. On Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:06:42 Todd Glover wrote: >Hello all, > >I just purchased a used Aluminum canoe and would like to "artifake" it >by painting it to look like a birchbark. >Does anyone have any good photos or links which would give me some ideas >on how it should look? >Thanks for any help or suggestions. > >"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 >http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > __________________________________________________________ Win a First Class Trip to Hawaii to Vacation Elvis Style! http://r.lycos.com/r/sagel_mail/http://www.elvis.lycos.com/sweepstakes ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Hunt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes Date: 11 Aug 2002 20:48:04 -0400 Some years ago muzzleloader magazine had an article on the birch paint. If memory serves correct it had step by step instructions. Pictures that accompanied the article were decent looking. John (BIG JOHN) Hunt longhunter mountainman Southwest, Ohio ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 6:46 PM > Todd, > > Contact Buck Conner, he has done a dozen of them made of aluminum to kelvar and they look good, he did a series years ago for the COHT on doing what you want, and I saw those photo's at his place a few months ago. He not on this list but you can contact him through the AMM site. > > Later > > Concho [HRD] > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Historical Research & Development > "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 > Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/ > Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/ > > See the AMM site for more supporters of this event. > > > > > > On Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:06:42 > Todd Glover wrote: > >Hello all, > > > >I just purchased a used Aluminum canoe and would like to "artifake" it > >by painting it to look like a birchbark. > >Does anyone have any good photos or links which would give me some ideas > >on how it should look? > >Thanks for any help or suggestions. > > > >"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 > >http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Win a First Class Trip to Hawaii to Vacation Elvis Style! > http://r.lycos.com/r/sagel_mail/http://www.elvis.lycos.com/sweepstakes > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes Date: 11 Aug 2002 21:31:21 EDT --part1_1ab.69b4715.2a8869e9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out these sites. There are pics of Algonquin, Mic Mac, Ojibwe, Mohawk, Aboriginal and a heap of others scattered throughout..... Hope this is of some help. Barney Squeedunk Period Correct Canoes & Kayaks Birch Bark Canoe Photo Gallery Birch Bark Canoe (Henry Vaillancourt) Bigfork Canoe Trails (Bigfork Canoe) Birch Bark Canoe Page (Aboriginal Collection) Birch Bark Canoe Building a Birchbark Canoe Birchbark Canoe (Minature Replicas) Birchbark Canoe Keepsake (Minature Replicas) The Bark Canoe Store (BarkCanoe.com) Birchbark Canoe Construction - Canadian Heritage Gallery NauticalDreamer.com Birch Bark Trapper Canoe WCHA - Birchbark Canoes --part1_1ab.69b4715.2a8869e9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out these sites. There are pics of Algonquin, Mic Mac, Ojibwe, Mohawk, Aboriginal and a heap of others scattered throughout.....
Hope this is of some help. Barney

Squeedunk Period Correct Canoes & Kayaks
Birch Bark Canoe Photo Gallery
Birch Bark Canoe (Henry Vaillancourt)
Bigfork Canoe Trails (Bigfork Canoe)
Birch Bark Canoe Page (Aboriginal Collection)
Birch Bark Canoe
Building a Birchbark Canoe
Birchbark Canoe (Minature Replicas)
Birchbark Canoe Keepsake (Minature Replicas)
The Bark Canoe Store (BarkCanoe.com)
Birchbark Canoe Construction - Canadian Heritage Gallery
NauticalDreamer.com
Birch Bark Trapper Canoe
WCHA - Birchbark Canoes --part1_1ab.69b4715.2a8869e9_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: MtMan-List: Southwestern Horse Enthusiasts Date: 12 Aug 2002 18:48:49 +0000 Gentlemen, I'm looking for anyone in the Texas-Oklahoma area who is interested in doing 1830's period rides. I have a group here in Texas doing late thirties early forties and we have access to a 5,00 acre ranch on the Nueces. If you are interested in joining us for jaunts or are interested in doing something up your way please contact me. I look forward to hearing from you. - Dios, Libertad y Tejas Cpt. McMahon S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." General Ethan Allen Hitchcock _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Southwestern Horse Enthusiasts Date: 12 Aug 2002 19:52:42 +0000 correction...that's 5,000 acres- not 500...sorry SMc _________________________________________________________________ Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimInTexas1962@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Southwestern Horse Enthusiasts Date: 13 Aug 2002 18:12:42 EDT --part1_19a.6e7e620.2a8ade5a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit when I finish building my santa Fe saddle ,I would like to join y'all jim branson Inez Tx --part1_19a.6e7e620.2a8ade5a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit when I finish building my santa Fe saddle ,I would like to join y'all
jim branson
Inez Tx --part1_19a.6e7e620.2a8ade5a_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe Subject: MtMan-List: Test !!! Date: 15 Aug 2002 09:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Sorry list, I have changed to a new computer and have not recieved anything from the list since. Just checking if I can get one or have lost my connection. grn ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jdearing Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: Texas Canoe Trip Date: 15 Aug 2002 12:22:01 -0500 > >I liked the article myself.. would have been a good one for the backwoods >list. >In closing.. if no one posting {and they aint much} Post away , it was >highly interesting, though i wish they had had photos..... BUT GEEZZZ that >would not be period would it? >Windwalker Sorry for the very late reply. I have been away for a while. I agree completely, It was an interesting article, but may I ask what is the backwoods list, and how do I subscribe? Thanks J.D. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test !!! Date: 15 Aug 2002 17:24:02 +0000 George, I don't think anything is being posted... I joined up on Monday and have recieved only one other post besides yours! I guess things are alittle slow right now... - Dios, Libertad y Tejas Scott McMahon S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." General Ethan Allen Hitchcock _________________________________________________________________ Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Hunt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test !!! Date: 15 Aug 2002 13:33:59 -0400 George, you made it to southwestern Ohio. John (BIG JOHN) Hunt longhunter mountainman Southwest, Ohio ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 12:51 PM > Sorry list, > I have changed to a new computer and have not > recieved anything from the list since. > Just checking if I can get one or have lost my > connection. > grn > > ===== > George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Hunt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test !!! Date: 15 Aug 2002 13:35:18 -0400 Scott, it is slow. It is rendezvous season. John (BIG JOHN) Hunt longhunter mountainman Southwest, Ohio ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 1:24 PM > George, > I don't think anything is being posted... I joined up on Monday and have > recieved only one other post besides yours! I guess things are alittle slow > right now... > - > Dios, Libertad y Tejas > Scott McMahon > S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. > > "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not = any > sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has = one > or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every ma= n a > rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." > General Ethan Allen Hitchcock > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world=92s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ft. Bridger Date: 16 Aug 2002 15:54:59 EDT In a message dated 7/24/02 10:59:45 PM, sbanks@wyoming.com writes: << Hello, I'm looking for info on the Ft. Bridger Rendezvous this Labor Day: Booshway - name and address camping info - costs etc. Thanks for any help - it's greatly appreciated. Steve >> Steve I have had my machine shut down for weeks so just came across your message. The current Bourgeois is Kash Johnson in Woodruff, Utah: kashjohnson1@hotmail.com Hope you get satisfaction on what you need. As the originator of that rendezvous (which was teh grandfather of all of them) I really like to see people enjoy their experience there. Sincerely Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ft. Bridger Date: 16 Aug 2002 17:03:08 EDT --part1_154.129b1bd5.2a8ec28c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kash Johnson be Booshway his number is 435-793-4547 Can't say what they be a chargin I'll be work of my camp fee off. I think I'd have more time to enjoy it if just paid like everyone else. Crazy Cyot --part1_154.129b1bd5.2a8ec28c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kash Johnson

be Booshway his number is 435-793-4547
Can't say what they be a chargin I'll be work of my camp fee off. I think I'd have more time to enjoy it if just paid like everyone else.
Crazy Cyot --part1_154.129b1bd5.2a8ec28c_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Banks" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ft. Bridger Date: 16 Aug 2002 16:23:57 -0600 Richard, Thanks for the help. I did get the info from Tracie. I'm looking forward to coming. My first trip to the rendezvous was in 1974. I hooked up with Bert Wilde. We went for the next ten years. I still have one of the early photo albums that was printed there. Maybe we'll cross trails. Thanks again. Steve ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 1:54 PM > > In a message dated 7/24/02 10:59:45 PM, sbanks@wyoming.com writes: > > << Hello, > > I'm looking for info on the Ft. Bridger Rendezvous this Labor Day: > > Booshway - name and address > > camping info - costs etc. > > Thanks for any help - it's greatly appreciated. > > Steve > > > >> > > Steve > I have had my machine shut down for weeks so just came across your message. > The current Bourgeois is Kash Johnson in Woodruff, Utah: > kashjohnson1@hotmail.com > Hope you get satisfaction on what you need. As the originator of that > rendezvous (which was teh grandfather of all of them) I really like to see > people enjoy their experience there. > > Sincerely > Richard James > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Barbed Bark Canoe Date: 17 Aug 2002 09:31:51 -0600 (MDT) I recently bought a nice old canoe (just what I need, another canoe!). The previous owner painted it in a birchbark configuration and it looks pretty good except for the painted seams. He X'ed the seams in a couple of places before he realized it was starting to look like a barb wire strand! He then went to a single painted slash as a fake stitch. Still enough of the canoe was painted that way for it to become thereafter known as the "Barb Wire Canoe"! I love my Barb Wire canoe! I suggest,as you paint it,to stand back a ways occasionally and take a look at it. Maybe even lightly draw out your seams and stitches and take a look at it before making them permanent. Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Barbed Bark Canoe Date: 17 Aug 2002 9:50:37 -0700 I used the tar type substance that you paint on trees after you lop off limbs to paint the seams on my canoes. It gives it a bit of texture. It may get soft in the hot sun, but is easy to clean up and redo. Just a suggestion as one way to do faux seams on a canoe. hardtack > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 8/17/02 8:31:51 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: Barbed Bark Canoe > > I recently bought a nice old canoe (just what I need, another canoe!). > The previous owner painted it in a birchbark configuration and it looks > pretty good except for the painted seams. He X'ed the seams in a couple of > places before he realized it was starting to look like a barb wire strand! > He then went to a single painted slash as a fake stitch. Still enough of > the canoe was painted that way for it to become thereafter known as > the "Barb Wire Canoe"! I love my Barb Wire canoe! > I suggest,as you paint it,to stand back a ways occasionally and take a > look at it. Maybe even lightly draw out your seams and stitches and take a > look at it before making them permanent. > Beaverboy > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --- Randal Bublitz --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers, we are Bo ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Pemmican & Leaning Corn Date: 17 Aug 2002 15:09:20 -0600 (MDT) Dear List, I have chokecherries growing nearby and they're ripe. Do they work well in pemmican? Are they too bitter? If they would work how do I make pemmican? I know its meat mixed with berries but I need an exact recipe. Any help will be appreciated. Beaverboy PS. 70 mile per winds blew in a cold front yesterday. Got down to 30 degrees at my house here in the Sun River valley. Frost on the windshield but not the garden. The 70 mph gust snapped several sunflower plants and blew a lot of my corn over. Its warm today, I have to go prop up my corn. Anyone know how to keep corn from blowing over? Grow shorter corn? My short Mandan corn never blew over. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ft. Bridger Date: 17 Aug 2002 22:54:43 EDT In a message dated 8/16/02 10:24:11 PM, sbanks@wyoming.com writes: << My first trip to the rendezvous was in 1974.I hooked up with Bert Wilde. >> If you ran with Bert I should know you. I was pretty thick with Bert at that time. We had just met him at the first AMM rendezvous over on Henry's Fork. He was really fascinated. We visited a lot and I must have said good bye to him a dozen times. He couldn't bring himself to actually leave. Did you help him when he was Bourgeois. Last time I saw Bert must have been about four years ago when he was in the hospital here in Ogden. My daughter - a nurse there - called to let me know. Two years ago this fall I was up there after chert and tipi poles and dropped in at the ranch but no one was there. No one at Cathy's and her husband's place either. Don't know what is happening there. Do you? I will be on trader's row - cross the bridge - turn left on the path paralel to the creek. I am about the third spot from the corner with my back toward the water. I may be set up to make brooms as well as trade. Drop in and re-intro. Cheers Dick James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "WindWalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican & Leaning Corn Date: 17 Aug 2002 23:02:25 -0400 Choke leaves a bitter taste in Pemmican Blueberry works well We make/sell about 300lbs a year *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 8/17/02 at 3:09 PM beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: >Dear List, > I have chokecherries growing nearby and they're ripe. Do they work >well in pemmican? Are they too bitter? If they would work how do I make >pemmican? I know its meat mixed with berries but I need an exact recipe. > Any help will be appreciated. > Beaverboy >PS. 70 mile per winds blew in a cold front yesterday. Got down to 30 >degrees at my house here in the Sun River valley. Frost on the windshield >but not the garden. The 70 mph gust snapped several sunflower plants and >blew a lot of my corn over. Its warm today, I have to go prop up my corn. >Anyone know how to keep corn from blowing over? Grow shorter corn? My >short Mandan corn never blew over. > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Pemmican & Leaning Corn Date: 17 Aug 2002 21:29:03 -0600 (MDT) Windwalker, I don't want you to give me your secret recipe but how do you make or mix the berries with the meat? Do I grind up the meat and berries together? The meat is just dried isn't it? Are the berries dry too? What about adding suet or fat? I've eaten it before but never made it, I don't know where to begin. I'd like to have some for the fall hunts. Any help or basic recipes are very much appreciated. Sincerely, Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "WindWalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican & Leaning Corn Date: 17 Aug 2002 23:49:29 -0400 Surprizes me.. do a goolgle search on "pemmican" you will have to determine how you want to make SMOKE is only way to go on large orders of Pemmican. SAFETY is main issue recipes abound .. pick the one you like..... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 8/17/02 at 9:29 PM beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: >Windwalker, > I don't want you to give me your secret recipe but how do you make or >mix the berries with the meat? Do I grind up the meat and berries= together? >The meat is just dried isn't it? Are the berries dry too? What about >adding suet or fat? I've eaten it before but never made it, I don't know >where to begin. I'd like to have some for the fall hunts. > Any help or basic recipes are very much appreciated. > Sincerely, > Beaverboy > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Pemmican Recipes Date: 18 Aug 2002 08:55:53 -0600 (MDT) Windwalker, Yep, never made pemmican! Got some great info from Google, forgot all about looking there. Some of the recipes are pretty exotic. I'm looking forward to making some basic pemmican for the fall hunts. Thanks for the tip. Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim J." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Recipes Date: 18 Aug 2002 12:50:44 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- Beaverboy, Dennis Miles of Double Edge Forge has a pemmican recipe on his website at http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/ I have used this recipe and it turned out pretty good (and I didn't poison myself). Regards, Tim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Recipes Date: 18 Aug 2002 13:21:04 -0400 "I have used this recipe and it turned out pretty good (and I didn't poison myself)." See, I told you yahoos I wouldn't pizen you..... on purpose... D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim J." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pemmican Recipes Date: 18 Aug 2002 14:48:47 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- > "I have used this recipe and it turned out pretty good (and I didn't poison > myself)." > > See, I told you yahoos I wouldn't pizen you..... on purpose... > > > D > Well Mr. Blacksmith... In your usual subtle and graceful way (ahem) say the directions should be followed exactly to avoid food poisoning. Tim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Powell" Subject: MtMan-List: unsubsribe Date: 18 Aug 2002 15:05:06 -0600 ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C246C8.A344E500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "unsubscribe" amm1769@hotmail.com Thank-you Mike Powell AMM #1769 POISON RIVER PARTY "Ride, Ride, Ride" "Aux Aliments du Pays"!Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download= : http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C246C8.A344E500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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Can anyone direct me to any books or other resources that describe = the=20 conflict between mountain men and the missionaries in the 1800's?

Thank you -- I am doing research for an author.

Judy McHale

www.wildwords.net

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C248F2.553AD640-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Banks" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: conflict with missionaries Date: 21 Aug 2002 12:09:58 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C2490B.AAE1FC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Judy, One book is CHILDREN OF THE FUR TRADE, by John C. Jackson. There are = several incidents of mis-treatment of the Metis of the Northwest by the = influx of new Oregonians. A place to start. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: judy@wildwords.net=20 To: hist_text@xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 9:08 AM Subject: MtMan-List: conflict with missionaries Can anyone direct me to any books or other resources that describe the = conflict between mountain men and the missionaries in the 1800's?=20 Thank you -- I am doing research for an author.=20 Judy McHale=20 www.wildwords.net ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C2490B.AAE1FC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Judy,

One book is CHILDREN OF THE FUR = TRADE, by=20 John C. Jackson. There are several incidents of mis-treatment of = the Metis=20 of the Northwest by the influx of new Oregonians. A place to=20 start.

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 judy@wildwords.net

To: hist_text@xmission.com

Sent: Wednesday, August 21, = 2002 9:08=20 AM

Subject: MtMan-List: conflict = with=20 missionaries

Can anyone direct me to any books or other resources that = describe the=20 conflict between mountain men and the missionaries in the 1800's? =

Thank you -- I am doing research for an author.

Judy McHale

www.wildwords.net

------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C2490B.AAE1FC40-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ft. Bridger Date: 21 Aug 2002 14:40:38 EDT In a message dated 8/21/02 3:50:31 AM, sbanks@wyoming.com writes: << It was around that time when the Sec./treasurer absconded with the funds and paper work or so the tale was told >> I had that job of Chief Purser until the early '80s, then a guy from Kentucky took over. I know there was no absconding during my time, but there was a lot of malicious rumor-mongering going on at that time. I have never yet found the source of it but I know who some were that were involved. About that time there was another fellow - Rusty Sargent - whom I processed and who recently died. They cannot find any trace of his records, either and have decided to re-issue him a number, post mortum. It seems like the nastiest of people are in politics and manage to mess up what ever they can if they feel it is to their own benefit. Bridger will be a chore this year. My truck was in for repairs and now it is back together is blowing water into the oil. I have a loaner but it has very limited capacity so I will have to make two trips just to set up (106 miles each way). Same to get home. This is complicated by the loaner making "funny sounds". We'll try it, though. Looking forward to seeing you there. Dick James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Fwd: MtMan-List: nose rings Date: 21 Aug 2002 14:49:01 EDT --part1_152.12cdf6d4.2a953a9d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/21/02 4:28:43 AM, longbutt@hotmail.com writes: << did mountain men use nose or ear rings ?>> Why would they? or Why would they not? They were just people who came to the mountains to work and did not subscribe to any particular costuming. Now there were French Voyageurs who were a little more social that were reported to have worn them. Remember ONE ear ring only - and that in the left ear. Seems they discovered early the cock on a recoiling firelock would catch an ear ring and bend it badly. Didn't do much good for the ear, either. Richard James --part1_152.12cdf6d4.2a953a9d_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yb05.mx.aol.com (rly-yb05.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.5]) by air-yb05.mail.aol.com (v87.22) with ESMTP id MAILINYB51-0821002842; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:28:42 -0400 Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by rly-yb05.mx.aol.com (v87.22) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYB56-0821002836; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:28:36 -0400 Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 17hN6K-0006dW-00 for hist_text-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:28:12 -0600 Received: from [64.4.15.173] (helo=hotmail.com) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 17hN6I-0006dI-00 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:28:10 -0600 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:28:07 -0700 Received: from 64.80.14.139 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 04:28:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.80.14.139] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Aug 2002 04:28:07.0490 (UTC) FILETIME=[261EAA20:01C248CB] Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) did mountain men use nose or ear rings ? _________________________________________________________________ Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --part1_152.12cdf6d4.2a953a9d_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: conflict with missionaries Date: 22 Aug 2002 00:57:22 EDT --part1_184.d2003fc.2a95c932_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try Fred Gowans' ROCKY MOUNTAIN RENDEZVOUS, BYU Press, 1976, for first-hand accounts of what the missionaries thought of the mountain men and their behavior during the annual rendezvous'. John R. Sweet --part1_184.d2003fc.2a95c932_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try Fred Gowans' ROCKY MOUNTAIN RENDEZVOUS, BYU Press, 1976, for first-hand accounts of what the missionaries thought of the mountain men and their behavior during the annual rendezvous'.

John R. Sweet --part1_184.d2003fc.2a95c932_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael F. Clark" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Big Muddy Adventures, Ruskey and Clark Expedition Date: 22 Aug 2002 09:39:04 -0500 Greetings all; I recently joined this great listserv as a result of my research regarding the Mountain Men and the Fur Trade. That research is background information for a very exciting endeavor. I will be paddling a dugout canoe (made of a cottonwood tree) with my partner John Ruskey, "The Riverman". We will be following the Lewis and Clark river trail (with a couple of notable exceptions) from the Three Forks to the confluence here in St. Louis. We begin in latter September. We have a great partnership formed with the Lewis and Clark Expedition Project at the University of Montana. This is not a personal/pleasure expedition. It is a learning adventure. My "Big Muddy Adventures" Project is a series of expeditions by canoe down each of the major waterways that comprise the Mississippi river basin. Last fall, I completed the Mississippi River (Lake Itasca to the Gulf of Mexico), this fall, the Missouri, in the spring Lake Michigan to St. Louis via the Illinois, then the Arkansas, the Wisconsin, the Ohio and so on. I connect with the world using a laptop, and various other tech gizmos and provide daily updates onto the web sites created for each expedition. Again, these updates and all of the lessons, activities and interaction that occurs is dedicated to teachers and students. My purpose in sending this message is to inquire if any of y'all are interested in acting as "Experts" to address the questions of school children that will be exploring with us. They of course will be doing it in virtual fashion by logging on to the web site which has their virtual classroom, The Big Muddy Schoolhouse. If you would like to participate, let me know. The "Ask an Expert" Feature of the Big Muddy Schoolhouse is a wonderful way for students to do research and learn to appreciate that history lives! The Ruskey and Clark Expedition web site is http://www.ruskeyandclark.com The Mississippi River Expedition web site is http://www.bigmuddyadventure.com Once again I thank you for allowing me to participate in this list serve and to discover the amazing history of westward expansion. michael f. clark -- Michael F. Clark Big Muddy Adventures Director / Learning Adventure Guide / Curriculum Coordinator http://www.ruskeyandclark.com http://www.bigmuddyadventure.com bmcclark@earthlink.net Phone: 1-314-647-5552 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: conflict with missionaries Date: 22 Aug 2002 20:02:22 -0600 --------------3D367DC58FBFAB3210787268 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judy, There are a few books give accounts of the missionaries, some of which are good and some are bad. Here are a few I'd recommend besides the ones mentioned: "A Journal of An Exploring Tour beyond the Rocky Mountains", Samuel Parker. (A 1838 missionary account of his travels in the west and on to Hawaii and around the cape horn. Very honest on his feelings.) By Idaho state hist. society "Where Wagons Could Go" and "The Mountains We have Crossed" by Clifford Drury, a collection of letters and writings from the missionary women during the fur trade. Tells of in fighting, disagreements, successes, etc... Bison books. Tell your author friend that alot of small things can be gleaned from the rendezvous accounts, since that was where most of the trappers and western travelers met these men and their wives. But to find alot on this subject, you will need to do some reading. Things like not wanting to pack their animals every day, paying others to stand their guard shift at night, many other events will need to be pulled out and compared to what over say about the same event. mike. judy@wildwords.net wrote: > Can anyone direct me to any books or other resources that describe the > conflict between mountain men and the missionaries in the > 1800's? Thank you -- I am doing research for an author. Judy > McHalewww.wildwords.net --------------3D367DC58FBFAB3210787268 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judy,
There are a few books give accounts of the missionaries,
some of which are good and some are bad. Here are a few
I'd recommend besides the ones mentioned:
"A Journal of An Exploring Tour beyond the Rocky Mountains",
Samuel Parker. (A 1838 missionary account of his travels in the
west and on to Hawaii and around the cape horn. Very honest
on his feelings.) By Idaho state hist. society

"Where Wagons Could Go" and "The Mountains We have Crossed"
by Clifford Drury, a collection of letters and writings from the
missionary women during the fur trade. Tells of in fighting,
disagreements, successes, etc... Bison books.
    Tell your author friend that alot of small things can be gleaned
from the rendezvous accounts, since that was where most of the
trappers and western travelers met these men and their wives.
But to find alot on this subject, you will need to do some reading.
    Things like not wanting to pack their animals every day, paying others
to stand their guard shift at night, many other events will need to be
pulled out and compared to what over say about the same event.
                                mike.

judy@wildwords.net wrote:

Can anyone direct me to any books or other resources that describe the conflict between mountain men and the missionaries in the 1800's? Thank you -- I am doing research for an author. Judy McHalewww.wildwords.net

--------------3D367DC58FBFAB3210787268-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: MtMan-List: Plug Bayonet Date: 24 Aug 2002 13:17:39 -0400 Sorry for the interruption. Just put a plug bayonet on the site, for you military types that like to turn your fine firelock into a spear.. http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: nose rings Date: 24 Aug 2002 13:42:07 EDT --part1_3b.2b924476.2a991f6f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As for priced noses I would dout it very much not unless the trapper was a half breed form one of the tribes that did priced there noses and out west there were not that many tribes that did this. As for ears If a trapper again was from or adopted by a tribe, there is a chance that he would get his ears priced but it would have been both ears as that was the custom of the tribes. As for having problem when shooting a rifle only if ya wear long dangly type ear rings would this be a b problem. As for this being something that would be done by many trappers I dout it. For in none of Miller's pictures does he shows no trappers with ear rings and I have found no mention of them being worn in any of the journals that I have read. Not saying it was not done but it is not documented as far I know. See on the trail Crazy Cyot --part1_3b.2b924476.2a991f6f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As for priced noses I would dout it very much not unless the trapper was a half breed form one of the tribes that did priced there noses and out west there were not that many tribes that did this. As for ears If a trapper again was from or adopted by a tribe, there is a chance that he would get his ears priced but it would have been both ears as that was the custom of the tribes. As for having problem when shooting a rifle only if ya wear long dangly type ear rings would this be a b problem. As for this being something that would be done by many trappers I dout it. For in none of Miller's pictures does he shows no trappers with ear rings and I have found no mention of them being worn in any of the journals that I have read. Not saying it was not done but it is not documented as far I know.
See on the trail
Crazy Cyot --part1_3b.2b924476.2a991f6f_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 19:34:28 -0500 Date: 24 Aug 2002 18:34:46 -0600 Test. No reply necessary. Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net Aux Aliments du Pays ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: nose rings Date: 25 Aug 2002 03:25:18 +0000 I have to agree with Crazy Coyote here...I don't think(never seen any) there is any documentation for noserings on furtrappers. Earrings, I'venever seen anything for or against this but it would be more plausable than noserings... don't agree that it would have to be in both ears though. It's been fashionable for a long time to wear an earring in one or both ears for men... still is for that matter! I'd like for someone to explain this idea that shooting with long "dangly" earrings can cause problems... I've done it and have several friends doing F&I that do it and have never heard this mentioned before? Just wondering... Dios, Libertad y Tejas, Cpt. Scott McMahon S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: MtMan-List: The Great Buffalo Raffle Date: 26 Aug 2002 13:17:02 -0700 Hey was just checking a few sites and see that the buffalo raffle has had over 1200 hits on the counter, wonder how the raffle is doing, what's happening Randy. Are the odds of winning as good as before or has that chaged with new tickets ? Has to be still better than state LOTTO tickets and for sure more edible. Watch the skyline when leaving and do come back. Concho [HRD] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Historical Research & Development "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ See the AMM site for more supporters of this event at: AMM "Buffalo Raffle": http://amm_raffle.tripod.com/amm.html ___________________________________________________ Communicate with others using Lycos Mail for FREE! http://mail.lycos.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: The Great Buffalo Raffle Date: 26 Aug 2002 15:20:33 -0700 Conch, There are 221 tickets in the drawing box as of yesterday. We have broken even. Randy > [Original Message] > From: Daniel L. "Concho" Smith > To: > Date: 8/26/02 1:17:02 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: The Great Buffalo Raffle > > Hey was just checking a few sites and see that the buffalo raffle has had over 1200 hits on the counter, wonder how the raffle is doing, what's happening Randy. Are the odds of winning as good as before or has that chaged with new tickets ? Has to be still better than state LOTTO tickets and for sure more edible. > > Watch the skyline when leaving and do come back. > > Concho [HRD] > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Historical Research & Development > "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > See the AMM site for more supporters of this event at: AMM "Buffalo Raffle": http://amm_raffle.tripod.com/amm.html > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________ > Communicate with others using Lycos Mail for FREE! > http://mail.lycos.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --- Randal Bublitz --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fath ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: WARNING re: BOGUS POSTINGS Date: 28 Aug 2002 12:20:56 EDT --part1_7c.2d3033fb.2a9e5268_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Careful out there, Ladies and Gents. Someone has figured out how to send from the AMM history list with bogus subject lines like "MICROSOFT CORPORATION". There is an attached .zip file YOU SHOULD NOT OPEN UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. In fact, you are best off to just delete the mail without reading it. This is a sign of the times; they're coming from Lists of all types that are being mined for addresses. The latest one I got came from the hist_text @lists.xmission.com, but was sent to a different email than the one I use for the List. Sorry to take up bandwidth with us, but better safe than sorry. Barn --part1_7c.2d3033fb.2a9e5268_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Careful out there, Ladies and Gents. Someone has figured out how to send from the AMM history list with bogus subject lines like "MICROSOFT CORPORATION". There is an attached .zip file YOU SHOULD NOT OPEN UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. In fact, you are best off to just delete the mail without reading it.

This is a sign of the times; they're coming from Lists of all types that are being mined for addresses. The latest one I got came from the hist_text @lists.xmission.com, but was sent to a different email than the one I use for the List.

Sorry to take up bandwidth with us, but better safe than sorry. Barn --part1_7c.2d3033fb.2a9e5268_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "no" Subject: MtMan-List: Recipes Date: 29 Aug 2002 22:19:22 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C24FAA.209893A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are three interesting Recipes that I found in a little book called = Lee's Priceless Recipes, copyright 1912. The wording is as it appears in the book. Frank Novotny Waterproof Varnish for Linen or Calico One pint of turpentine 1 1/2 pints of linseed oil 7 ounces of litharge 1 ounce of sugar of lead strain it apply with a brush and dry in the sun or in a warm place. Browning Gun Barrels The Tincture of Iodine diluted with 1/2 its bulk water, is a superior liquid for Browning gun barrels. Fabrics to make fireproof 80 parts pure sulphate of ammonia, 25 parts carbonate of ammonia, 30 parts boracic acid, 12 parts pure borax, 20 parts starch, 1,000 parts distilled water, dip in this while it is hot, dry and iron. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C24FAA.209893A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The wording is as it appears in the book. = Frank=20 Novotny

Waterproof Varnish for Linen or Calico

One pint of turpentine

1 1/2 pints of linseed oil

7 ounces of litharge

1 ounce of sugar of lead

strain it

apply with a brush and dry

in the sun or in a warm place.

Browning Gun Barrels

The Tincture of Iodine diluted

with 1/2 its bulk water, is a superior

liquid for Browning gun barrels.

Fabrics to make fireproof

80 parts pure sulphate of = ammonia,

25 parts carbonate of ammonia,

30 parts boracic acid,

12 parts pure borax,

20 parts starch,

1,000 parts distilled water,

dip in this while it is hot,

dry and iron.

------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C24FAA.209893A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JW Stephens Subject: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark film: A wasted opportunity Date: 30 Aug 2002 03:31:01 -0700 The National Geographic film "Lewis and Clark: Great Journey West" was not a waste of time and money, but presented the enigma "why bother?" It's presented in 70mm on the big screen at my local multiplex. They compress the whole journey of discovery into 45 minutes, and not very well at that. The film is heavy on stock helicopter aerial shots "flying close to the river" and "flying through the cols" ... recycling at its finest. Throw anything up on the big screen, with big sound, and it's impressive. But this project looks like one that was ambitious until it came to grips with a shrunken budget. It had places to go and things to see, but never really got going, blew down the Snake, slipped on the Columbia, and barely mentioned the return trip at all. Even the Cliff's Notes of the Journals would be better. YMMV. B'st'rd ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don Bowen Subject: MtMan-List: Looking for BP books in Southern California Date: 30 Aug 2002 06:55:22 -0700 I am looking for a place in Southern California with a very good collection of black powder and fur trade books. Don Bowen donb@cts.com Valley Center, CA Senior Software Engineer Full Sail Software Development, Inc. http://members.cts.com/crash/d/donb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Bogus eMail / Virus Warning Date: 30 Aug 2002 10:49:17 EDT --part1_1ab.7a3427c.2aa0dfed_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Guys, This is what I was mentioning the other day about addresses appearing to be mined from the History List, and then emails being sent as though they were coming from the List or one of us. I have also sent this to Dean, but if anyone talks to him today, please let him ASAP, as he may know how to deal with it. To Mark Loader: Mark, I received the below eMail WITH A VIRUS LADEN ATTACHMENT from your screen name, so I thought I'd let you know. I've never seen this happen with AOL members, unless they also use Outlook or some other MickeySoft mailing program. Let me know if you are able to find anything out. Thanks, Barney Subj: Allies invasion of Sicily has started. File: Dp.zip (68380 bytes) DL Time (31200 bps): < 1 minute Sent from the Internet (Details) Allies invasion of Sicily has started. --part1_1ab.7a3427c.2aa0dfed_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Guys, This is what I was mentioning the other day about addresses appearing to be mined from the History List, and then emails being sent as though they were coming from the List or one of us.

I have also sent this to Dean, but if anyone talks to him today, please let him ASAP, as he may know how to deal with it.

To Mark Loader: Mark, I received the below eMail WITH A VIRUS LADEN ATTACHMENT from your screen name, so I thought I'd let you know. I've never seen this happen with AOL members, unless they also use Outlook or some other MickeySoft mailing program. Let me know if you are able to find anything out. Thanks, Barney

Subj: Allies invasion of Sicily has started.
File: Dp.zip (68380 bytes) DL Time (31200 bps): < 1 minute
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Allies invasion of Sicily has started.
--part1_1ab.7a3427c.2aa0dfed_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark film: A wasted opportunity Date: 30 Aug 2002 12:30:43 EDT In a message dated 8/30/02 3:31:53 AM, lray@mindspring.com writes: << The National Geographic film "Lewis and Clark: Great Journey West" was not a waste of time and money, but presented the enigma "why bother?" >> I've got the L&C movie put out by PBS awhile back (all eight hours of it on two tapes) that are outstanding! I think you can still get them for $19.95...from the "History Channel" web site. Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html