From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Quiet Date: 01 Oct 2002 08:05:32 -0600 Hello the Camp! We are having a nap? I havent heard anything to get excited about for weeks. I found some nice boots at: www.cows.com I may take my Dutch Oven to Geezer Camp this weekend and bake up some bread with butter and Honey? Some hot Chocolate? Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Open Rendezvous invite Date: 01 Oct 2002 14:47:56 EDT Dripping Springs Rendezvous (The site of the 2002 Southwestern) November 7 - 11, 2002 7 & 8th are school days Dripping Springs State Park, Okmulgee, OK Early set up 4 - 6th *Pre-1840 rules apply to all - trade goods included *No vehicles in camp - 1 hour unload time after the 6th *Firewood & water available on site or nearby *Period dress required for primitive camp and traders row *Modern camping with water and electric hookup nearby *Hot showers nearby *Camp fee $10.00, Traders fee $35.00, Modern camp fee as set by State Park. ( Primitive camp fee waved if giving a needed demo for school days. ) * Trade Blanket 3' X 4' * Dutch-oven cook off & pot luck dinner Saturday evening ( Prizes awarded after dinner. Last year paying out over $1000.00 ) * Round robin on Friday night * Competition fee $5.00 * No walk in competitors * Mountain man walk competitions start on Friday * Aggregate competition shoot open to all primitive campers with payment of Competition fee * Aggregate competitions also include fire starting, archery, hawk & knife throw * Jackpot competitions of Sunday. Call Joe ( Ridge Pole ) or Cynthia ( Cherry ) Caldwell for additional information @ 918-756-2840 or e-mail TrapRJoe@aol.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: MtMan-List: Southwestern doin's? Date: 01 Oct 2002 20:14:45 +0000 List, How many would be interested in attending a serious Southwestern furtrade/Santa Fe/Indian trade event somewhere in the "Southwest"? Maybe Oklahoma, northern Texas/New Mexico, southern Colorado? We could set the timeline at 1839 or 1840... it would be a juried, period, hardcore event... no excess camp equipment, no hollywood foofaraw. I've already recieved one or two hits on this but just wondered what sort of take everyone else had on it. Anyone else interested in helping put something like this together? What about you Oklahoma AMM boys... Cliff, Tim? Just checking... Dios, Libertad y Tejas Cpt. Scott McMahon S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." General Ethan Allen Hitchcock _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John McKee" Subject: MtMan-List: thanks Date: 01 Oct 2002 19:07:26 -0500 Thanks to the gentlemen that gave me the advise on whitening animal skulls. Here's to your mocs always stayin' dry and yer belly's full of fat cow! John The Stitchin' Scotsman 100% Handsewn Elkhide garments and moccasins Manu Forti www.stitchinscotsman.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Quiet Date: 01 Oct 2002 20:51:15 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- I havent heard anything to get excited about for weeks. > I found some nice boots at: www.cows.com > I may take my Dutch Oven to Geezer Camp this weekend and bake up some bread > with butter and Honey? Some hot Chocolate? Dear Ole I don't care if your boots do stink, with all this cold and rain I believe a little bread and chocolate would go down good. That's the problem with being period correct-- someone will always go and make some fine nonperiod food or offer a nonperiod jug that is jus so hard to turn down. Still that fancy feather pillow of yours is pushing it some. It wouldn't be so bad if it did not have that Barney pillowcase. I will have to see what happens maybe I will wonder down after cutting some firewood. See if you really are baking bread. By the way there be more than one PRPD that can attest to the fact that French Dumplings can pass for a mighty fine substitute for bread and it is documented. For those wondering that is Pioson River Party Dog; Pig would sound better but Doggin is what they do. Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Quiet Date: 01 Oct 2002 21:49:44 -0600 By the way there be more >than one PRPD that can attest to the fact that French Dumplings can pass for >a mighty fine substitute for bread and it is documented. > >For those wondering that is Pioson River Party Dog; Pig would sound better >but Doggin is what they do. > >Wynn Ormond Hey! Who're you calling dog????? Them dumplings was period and delicious......we were merely appreciative! Allen Occasional camp dog, taught by the best: Crazy and Yaro! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Occupations Date: 02 Oct 2002 00:37:49 EDT --part1_36.2e53df78.2acbd21d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Simon Turley, Charlie Autobees and Tom Tobin are all Southwestern whiskey traders. Turley had his distillery at Arroyo Hondo north of Taos until he was burned out and killed by the insurrectionists. He was the source of much of the Aguadiente we hear so much about. Autobees and Tobin (two half-brothers to each other) worked for him. John R. Sweet --part1_36.2e53df78.2acbd21d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Simon Turley, Charlie Autobees and Tom Tobin are all Southwestern whiskey traders.  Turley had his distillery at Arroyo Hondo north of Taos until he was burned out and killed by the insurrectionists. He was the source of much of the Aguadiente we hear so much about. Autobees and Tobin (two half-brothers to each other) worked for him.

John R. Sweet --part1_36.2e53df78.2acbd21d_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Southwestern doin's? Date: 02 Oct 2002 00:40:19 EDT --part1_28.2d675e59.2acbd2b3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about the Comanche Nat'l Grasslands in Colorado? Around the Purgatoire River? (Bent's Fort country) John R. Sweet --part1_28.2d675e59.2acbd2b3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about the Comanche Nat'l Grasslands in Colorado? Around the Purgatoire River? (Bent's Fort country)

John R. Sweet --part1_28.2d675e59.2acbd2b3_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Duncan Macready Subject: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 02 Oct 2002 19:52:01 +1200 There is an original Hawken for sale on http://www.antiqueguns.com/auction/item.cgi?robles/robles-23799 Well Hawk do you know this one ? any comments, other than their photos are a bit mixed up Cheers Dunc ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 02 Oct 2002 05:50:20 -0500 Is that a "J&S" Hawken or a "B&S" Hawken? I'm no Hawken expert by a long mile, but this gun doesn't seem to jive with descriptions of Hawken guns that I've read. I, too, would like to hear the opinions of folks who are knowledgeable about Hawkens. Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 2:52 AM > There is an original Hawken for sale on > http://www.antiqueguns.com/auction/item.cgi?robles/robles-23799 Well Hawk > do you know this one ? any comments, other than their photos are a bit mixed up > > Cheers Dunc > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Quiet Date: 02 Oct 2002 07:41:47 -0600 on 10/1/02 8:51 PM, Wynn & Gretchen Ormond at leona3@sourceoneinternet.com wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ole Jensen > > > I havent heard anything to get excited about for weeks. >> I found some nice boots at: www.cows.com >> I may take my Dutch Oven to Geezer Camp this weekend and bake up some > bread >> with butter and Honey? Some hot Chocolate? > > Dear Ole > > I don't care if your boots do stink, with all this cold and rain I believe a > little bread and chocolate would go down good. That's the problem with > being period correct-- someone will always go and make some fine nonperiod > food or offer a nonperiod jug that is jus so hard to turn down. Still that > fancy feather pillow of yours is pushing it some. > > It wouldn't be so bad if it did not have that Barney pillowcase. I will > have to see what happens maybe I will wonder down after cutting some > firewood. See if you really are baking bread. By the way there be more > than one PRPD that can attest to the fact that French Dumplings can pass for > a mighty fine substitute for bread and it is documented. > > For those wondering that is Pioson River Party Dog; Pig would sound better > but Doggin is what they do. > > Wynn Ormond > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Wynn, I got 40 cords of wood you can have for free if you come pick it up, all dry some oak, cedar, pine. Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Quiet Date: 02 Oct 2002 07:43:37 -0600 on 10/1/02 9:49 PM, Allen Hall at allenhall@srv.net wrote: > By the way there be more >> than one PRPD that can attest to the fact that French Dumplings can pass for >> a mighty fine substitute for bread and it is documented. >> >> For those wondering that is Pioson River Party Dog; Pig would sound better >> but Doggin is what they do. >> >> Wynn Ormond > > Hey! Who're you calling dog????? > > Them dumplings was period and delicious......we were merely appreciative! > > Allen > Occasional camp dog, taught by the best: Crazy and Yaro! > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Allen, what can you say after that! Dog said he was comming as well. Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Southwestern doin's? Date: 02 Oct 2002 07:49:44 -0600 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3116389784_64403_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 10/1/02 10:40 PM, Hawkengun@aol.com at Hawkengun@aol.com wrote: How about the Comanche Nat'l Grasslands in Colorado? Around the Purgatoire River? (Bent's Fort country) John R. Sweet John, I have always wanted to do a camp in the dead of winter in "Snows Canyon" near St. George Utah. The place looks verry simmilar to our land but the temperature in winter will get up into the 60's durring the day in January. Ole --MS_Mac_OE_3116389784_64403_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: MtMan-List: Southwestern doin's? on 10/1/02 10:40 PM, Hawkengun@aol.com at Hawkengun@aol.com wrote:

How about the Comanche Nat'l = Grasslands in Colorado? Around the Purgatoire River? (Bent's Fort country)
John R. Sweet

John,
I have always wanted to do a camp in the dead of winter in "Snows Cany= on" near St. George Utah. The place looks verry simmilar to our land bu= t the temperature in winter will get up into the 60's durring the day in Jan= uary.
Ole --MS_Mac_OE_3116389784_64403_MIME_Part-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 02 Oct 2002 13:09:17 EDT In a message dated 10/2/02 3:52:29 AM, lanneyratcliff@charter.net writes: << I, too, would like to hear the opinions of folks who are knowledgeable about Hawkens. >> I'm thinking it might be the "shorter" city version..... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 02 Oct 2002 11:18:23 -0700 I am not one of the resident "gun experts" by any means, but I would make the point that while the rifle may be a Hawken, (i.e. made by one of the Hawken brothers) it ain't necessarily a "Hawken" rifle, as we all have come to know them. To me, it doesn't look at all like a "Hawken" but it was (apparently) made by one of the Hawkens. Does this make any sense to anybody?? Black Knife ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 02 Oct 2002 15:01:35 EDT In a message dated 10/2/02 11:24:01 AM, aravery@shaw.ca writes: << To me, it doesn't look at all like a "Hawken" but it was (apparently) made by one of the Hawkens. >> Haaaaa..... I "cut and pasted" the web address, and the gun I saw was actually a pistol.... don't think we're all on the same page...or me anyway. Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 02 Oct 2002 15:05:41 EDT --part1_7f.2cd9769f.2acc9d85_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/2/02 11:24:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, aravery@shaw.ca writes: > . To me, it doesn't look at all like a "Hawken" but it was > (apparently) made by one of the Hawkens. > According to Charles Hanson in his book "The Plains Rifle", the Hawkin Brothers did upgrades to existing rifles built by other gun makers. Upgrades usually included reboring, re-rifling & shortening the barrel to Hawkin specs. Of course, they stamped such barrels with their marks to indicate they'd done the upgrade. Perhaps this is an example? Nauga Mok --part1_7f.2cd9769f.2acc9d85_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/2/02 11:24:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, aravery@shaw.ca writes:


. To me, it doesn't look at all like a "Hawken" but it was
(apparently) made by one of the Hawkens.


According to Charles Hanson in his book "The Plains Rifle", the Hawkin Brothers did upgrades to existing rifles built by other gun makers.  Upgrades usually included reboring, re-rifling & shortening the barrel to Hawkin specs.  Of course, they stamped such barrels with their marks to indicate they'd done the upgrade.  Perhaps this is an example?

Nauga Mok --part1_7f.2cd9769f.2acc9d85_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 03 Oct 2002 15:06:09 -0400 black knife that makes plenty of sense to me but it is not a true---j or j & s hawken and seems to be a callage of different styles and time periods lock is from around 1810 to 20---butstock is yorke---patch box not similar to any used by any master builders in the book patch boxes and barrel marksof that time period---gun has german characteristics with the sway belly forstock none of the known hawken makers used a swamped barrel---all known guns were straight oct or tapered ---none known with octogon to round barrels---or similar to some english sporting rifles the hawken as we know and accept as the general rule today is a combination of the 1803 hawpers ferry and a english sporting rifle---look at the lines and stock shapes---there is one hawken with a pistol grip like a english sporting rifle and is dated about 1808--- could be a restocker by a unknown maker the stamp is wrong for the majority of hawken and william and christipher signed their guns in script since they were master builders--- hawk--- On Wed, 02 Oct 2002 11:18:23 -0700 Alan Avery writes: > I am not one of the resident "gun experts" by any means, but I would > make > the point that while the rifle may be a Hawken, (i.e. made by one of > the > Hawken brothers) it ain't necessarily a "Hawken" rifle, as we all > have come > to know them. To me, it doesn't look at all like a "Hawken" but it > was > (apparently) made by one of the Hawkens. > > Does this make any sense to anybody?? > > > Black Knife > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 03 Oct 2002 15:36:41 -0400 pard--- not correct in the stamping thing ---both jake and sam refused to stamp a restocker or a repair but if they made the whole gun that was a different story they did use generic parts on several ocasions depending on what the customer ordered especially the locks which some are ashmore some are tyrone some ard made in their shop by william watt---gemner used the 3d version of the hawken stamp and stamped some reworks like the spencer and the falling block with the double keys in the front that was done by j. p. gemner----remember there are 3 hawken stamps---the early which is typical of the j and s hawken and the s hawken which has the w that is funny. the one that gemner used that only says s. hawken or hawken on it---and is about .040 bigger than the standard hawken stamp---I have rubbings of all the different stamps and ceriblem splashes also that i made off of originals---william and christopher were master builders and signed all their guns in script not stamped---IE with a graveing chizzle and both use their hand written signature as their stamp--- nuff said hawk On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:05:41 EDT NaugaMok@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 10/2/02 11:24:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > aravery@shaw.ca > writes: > > > > . To me, it doesn't look at all like a "Hawken" but it was > > (apparently) made by one of the Hawkens. > > > > According to Charles Hanson in his book "The Plains Rifle", the > Hawkin > Brothers did upgrades to existing rifles built by other gun makers. > Upgrades > usually included reboring, re-rifling & shortening the barrel to > Hawkin > specs. Of course, they stamped such barrels with their marks to > indicate > they'd done the upgrade. Perhaps this is an example? > > Nauga Mok ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 02 Oct 2002 15:58:05 EDT I have a friend that once owned one, and this was before the 1970s and all the mountain man hype. He finally sold it because people who heard he had it and would come to his house at all hours to see it. Drove him nuts. One fellow drove in from Las Vegas (the owner lived in Salt Lake City) and knocked on his door at 10 pm asking for the privilege. So: If you have a lot of money and are lonesome for meeting a lot of new friends . . . go buy that "Hawken". Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: windwalker@fastmail.fm Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 28 Sep 2002 22:24:28 -0400 Hey Hawk Dam it appeard another"Hawken Flint" turned up.. Didnt we have a major while back?? Some were saying they never made a flint??? Well I looked at the Picture.. appears to be the early version like mine. My stock clearly shows the Lancaster style. Mine don't have the fancy patchbox as this one in picture does. Now as I seen the picture it was marked "Hawken" and nothing more... AndThat in itself is incorrect for my gun. Id advise a onsite inspection for anyone biding on that gun. From what I seen, it appears to be modified and or pieced together. NOTE there were some assemblers of rifles that stamped hawken on some guns to bring a better price. The Barrel appears to be total incorrect for the rifle. and is possible made by a lesser assembler or worse yet possible later stamped on a rebore Now OT so you moving outs Fl are you hawk?? We are just getting the new house started in Boca Grande Windwalker > pard--- > not correct in the stamping thing ---both jake and sam refused to stamp > a restocker or a repair but if they made the whole gun that was a > different story they did use generic parts on several ocasions depending > on what the customer ordered especially the locks which some are ashmore > some are tyrone some ard made in their shop by william watt---gemner > used the 3d version of the hawken stamp and stamped some reworks like the > spencer and the falling block with the double keys in the front that was > done by j. p. gemner----remember there are 3 hawken stamps---the early > which is typical of the j and s hawken and the s hawken which has the w > that is funny. the one that gemner used that only says s. hawken or > hawken on it---and is about .040 bigger than the standard hawken > stamp---I have rubbings of all the different stamps and ceriblem splashes > also that i made off of originals---william and christopher were master > builders and signed all their guns in script not stamped---IE with a > graveing chizzle and both use their hand written signature as their > stamp--- > > nuff said > hawk > > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:05:41 EDT NaugaMok@aol.com writes: > > In a message dated 10/2/02 11:24:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > aravery@shaw.ca > > writes: > > > > > > > . To me, it doesn't look at all like a "Hawken" but it was > > > (apparently) made by one of the Hawkens. > > > > > > > According to Charles Hanson in his book "The Plains Rifle", the > > Hawkin > > Brothers did upgrades to existing rifles built by other gun makers. > > Upgrades > > usually included reboring, re-rifling & shortening the barrel to > > Hawkin > > specs. Of course, they stamped such barrels with their marks to > > indicate > > they'd done the upgrade. Perhaps this is an example? > > > > Nauga Mok > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 02 Oct 2002 20:47:20 -0700 I'm no Hawken expert by a long mile, but this gun doesn't seem to jive with descriptions of Hawken guns that I've read. I, too, would like to hear the opinions of folks who are knowledgeable about Hawkens. Lanney Ratcliff >> Lanney, I'm certainly no expert on anything, but I have seen several Original Hawkens and like Hawk said the stamp on the barrel isn't even close to right. It's not the right size, style, and it's not in the same place as the ones I have seen. My $.02 worth, Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 02 Oct 2002 21:03:54 -0500 Larry I don't think I would give 14 grand for it and judging from the bidding history nobody else will either, considering that less than one hour remains on the bid period. Seems to have had trouble passing the reverse version of the "duck test"......if it DOESN'T look like a duck, if it DOESN'T walk like a duck and DOESN'T quack like a duck it might NOT be a duck. Lanney > > >> Lanney, > I'm certainly no expert on anything, but I have seen several Original > Hawkens and like Hawk said the stamp on the barrel isn't even close to > right. It's not the right size, style, and it's not in the same place as > the ones I have seen. > My $.02 worth, > Pendleton > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Southwestern doin's? Date: 02 Oct 2002 21:07:44 -0600 Sounds good. Don Keas On Tuesday, October 1, 2002 2:14 PM, scott mcmahon wrote: >List, > How many would be interested in attending a serious Southwestern=20 >furtrade/Santa Fe/Indian trade event somewhere in the "Southwest"? Maybe=20 >Oklahoma, northern Texas/New Mexico, southern Colorado? We could set the=20 >timeline at 1839 or 1840... it would be a juried, period, hardcore event..= .=20 >no excess camp equipment, no hollywood foofaraw. I've already recieved = one=20 >or two hits on this but just wondered what sort of take everyone else had = on=20 >it. Anyone else interested in helping put something like this together? = What=20 >about you Oklahoma AMM boys... Cliff, Tim? Just checking... > Dios, Libertad y Tejas > Cpt. Scott McMahon > S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. > > "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not = any=20 >sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has = one=20 >or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man = a=20 >rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." > General Ethan Allen Hitchcock > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: >http://messenger.msn.com > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Firewood Date: 02 Oct 2002 22:03:24 -0600 Ole wrote > I got 40 cords of wood you can have for free if you come pick it up, all dry > some oak, cedar, pine. Ole I have several sources that I get wood from I just have to cut it etc but I will keep you in mind. I love a good fire on a cold night. I try to make the stove the center of my home instead of the TV that seems to dominate most homes. Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 04 Oct 2002 02:48:00 -0400 want some pictures of my original flint--- nuff said--- hawk ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 04 Oct 2002 02:45:35 -0400 lanny--- pard you are right the duck stops here---and not my 14 grand---i might consider selling my original for that price and i can document it--- nuff said hawk On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:03:54 -0500 "Lanney Ratcliff" writes: > Larry > I don't think I would give 14 grand for it and judging from the > bidding > history nobody else will either, considering that less than one hour > remains > on the bid period. Seems to have had trouble passing the reverse > version of > the "duck test"......if it DOESN'T look like a duck, if it DOESN'T > walk like > a duck and DOESN'T quack like a duck it might NOT be a duck. > Lanney > > > > > > >> Lanney, > > I'm certainly no expert on anything, but I have seen several > Original > > Hawkens and like Hawk said the stamp on the barrel isn't even > close to > > right. It's not the right size, style, and it's not in the same > place as > > the ones I have seen. > > My $.02 worth, > > Pendleton > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 04 Oct 2002 02:21:21 -0400 dick --- have owned 4 original hawkens---still have two---and one of then is as you say its a "A typical according to john beard" have never had that kind of problems---when i got my baby i got it it was in 4 pieces broke up by a wagon rolling over it ---bill large recut the bore---kieth knewbeyer and myself put the wood back together---and i still use and shoot it---the flinter i own is not a show piece but functional and shootable---it came from alaska---long storey---the percission i am the 3 d owner---know its total history and lenage---dont know the whole storey on the flinter but can track ii back 4 owners--- its marked j & s hawken---if the price is close i guess i should put mine up for sale(I DOUBT THAT) the owner of that gun is relly proud of his thang---note i say thang--- hawk On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:58:05 EDT SWzypher@aol.com writes: > I have a friend that once owned one, and this was before the 1970s > and all > the mountain man hype. He finally sold it because people who heard > he had it > and would come to his house at all hours to see it. Drove him nuts. > One > fellow drove in from Las Vegas (the owner lived in Salt Lake City) > and > knocked on his door at 10 pm asking for the privilege. So: If you > have a > lot of money and are lonesome for meeting a lot of new friends . . . > go buy > that "Hawken". > > Richard James > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Roberts" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 03 Oct 2002 06:55:21 -0400 Hawk, Some images of your Hawken(s) would, I'm certain, be enjoyed by many. Tom ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 2:48 AM > want some pictures of my original flint--- > nuff said--- > hawk > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Duncan Macready Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 03 Oct 2002 23:08:07 +1200 Hi I just clicked back on the web page where the Hawken was advertised ( Antique Guns . Com's news letter )and found a pistol, a search could not find the Hawken, maybe we scared the seller off by asking too many questions Dunc Auckland, New Zealand ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Firewood Date: 03 Oct 2002 07:54:16 -0600 on 10/2/02 10:03 PM, Wynn & Gretchen Ormond at leona3@sourceoneinternet.com wrote: > Ole wrote >> I got 40 cords of wood you can have for free if you come pick it up, all > dry >> some oak, cedar, pine. > > Ole > I have several sources that I get wood from I just have to cut it etc but I > will keep you in mind. I love a good fire on a cold night. I try to make > the stove the center of my home instead of the TV that seems to dominate > most homes. > > Wynn Ormond > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Wynn, I need to get rid of this wood or haul it to the land fill. Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "windwalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 29 Sep 2002 12:12:26 -0500 > Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 02:48:00 -0400 > From: hawknest4@juno.com > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > ReplyTo: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale > > want some pictures of my original flint--- > nuff said--- > hawk Hey Hawk Hope all is well there. On the Hawken issue.. Id highly advise not posting public pictures of it.Or posting on the web. UNLESS you are selling it. Remember the "St Louis Problems"???? True bona file Classics have a problem of coming up missing, once made public.... I would think you would know that. Unless one has security of Ft Knox. Even posting a picture period, will in time have the arm posted all over internet. And thus make it a easy target Think twice Before you post any pictures... As you know I have a original, and i wont even consider posting, to anyplace, nor will let its location be known. I think you follow my drift on this, or you should. And Id advise anyone NOT to post info of this type on a PUBLIC forum.. hmm Several years ago a collector had some shall we say famous early guns, and made it public knowledge as to location, condition and included pictures... Those arms came up missing.. never to be found.....as of yet This ring a bell Hawk???? Windwalker > > > ________________________________________________________________ GET > INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Firewood Date: 03 Oct 2002 11:59:34 EDT In a message dated 10/3/02 7:54:16 AM, olebjensen@earthlink.net writes: << I need to get rid of this wood or haul it to the land fill. Ole >> You can land fill it out in my pasture Dick James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 03 Oct 2002 17:24:40 -0500 We ain't that good, Dunc. The time limit (set by the seller, I suppose) expired last night. Lanney ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 6:08 AM > Hi I just clicked back on the web page where the Hawken was advertised ( > Antique Guns . Com's news letter )and found a pistol, a search could not > find the Hawken, maybe we scared the seller off by asking too many > questions > > Dunc > Auckland, New Zealand > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Original Hawken for sale Date: 03 Oct 2002 15:30:45 -0700 "...We ain't that good, Dunc. The time limit (set by the seller, I suppose) expired last night. Lanney..." So I take it that all of the members of this list managed to resist the temptation to lay out 14 grand for it eh? Black Knife ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee Newbill" Subject: MtMan-List: Daniel L. "Concho" Smith Date: 04 Oct 2002 19:33:32 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C26BDC.ECB0EBB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With sadness, I pass on the following.... ----- Original Message -----=20 Let it me known that Daniel L. "Concho" Smith has moved to the other = side as of early this morning 10/04/2002. Remembered for his witt, = craftsmanship and the always present smile ready to sing you a song or = play a tune. Many knew him as "Concho" with no other name in the F&I War = to Fur Trade circles from Colorado to many sites heading East. A man of many talents, smithing to quill work, several on this list wear = his wares made over a 30 year period. A regular at Ft.deChartre, Bent's, = Ft. Osage and many western events that expanded into the furtherest = northern points in resent years. A Pennsylvania, Missouri and Colorado = muzzle loading Champion many times over, best know in the 80's for his = long string of 50 - 5X's at major events in the states mentioned as well = as other contests of one's skills. With a mild manner, there was another side that most know little of from = years gone bye, a Navy Seal from Seal Team One, having won a Purple = Heart and the Navy Cross for his work in Nam in the early 60's, there = making association with the late Ben "Capt.Hook" Thompson, also of the = same unit. A friend of Charles Hanson, Jr., may all our brothers be breaking bread = as you read this last post for an old friend. A member of the original "Outhouse Gang" of Colorado, which seems to be = slowly going to the other side, the old saying about the good one's go = first is starting to "ring" true. . Ben F. "Capt.Hook" Thompson craftsman, researcher . Dick "Keelboat" Whitmer * gun builder, researcher . Harvey "Plenty Whiskey" Wood * researcher, craftsman . Dick "Pony Tracks" Spencer * publisher, researcher . David L. "Brass Turtle" Sample * trader, researcher . John "Step" Musike lawman, researcher Barry "Buck" Conner * trader, researcher . Gary "Slim" Slivers US Army pilot, researcher Kermit "Powderhawk" Trustem craftsman, researcher . Daniel L. "Concho" Smith researcher, craftsman . Lee R. "Turtle" Boyer researcher, teacher . Original "members" from the mid 60's through the 80's that have passed = on. * AMM Brothers Thank you for your time and a chance to remember our friend "Concho". Take care, Buck Conner=20 AMM Free Trapper ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C26BDC.ECB0EBB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
With sadness, I pass on the = following....
 
----- Original Message = -----
 
Let it me known that Daniel L. "Concho" Smith has = moved to the=20 other side as of early this morning 10/04/2002. Remembered for his witt, = craftsmanship and the always present smile ready to sing you a song or = play a=20 tune. Many knew him as "Concho" with no other name in the F&I War to = Fur=20 Trade circles from Colorado to many sites heading = East.

A man of many talents, smithing to quill work, = several on=20 this list wear his wares made over a 30 year period. A regular at = Ft.deChartre,=20 Bent's, Ft. Osage and many western events that expanded into the = furtherest=20 northern points in resent years. A Pennsylvania, Missouri and Colorado = muzzle=20 loading Champion many times over, best know in the 80=92s for his long = string of=20 50 - 5X=92s at major events in the states mentioned as well as other = contests of=20 one=92s skills.

With a mild manner, there was another side that = most know=20 little of from years gone bye, a Navy Seal from Seal Team One, having = won a=20 Purple Heart and the Navy Cross for his work in Nam in the early 60's, = there=20 making association with the late Ben "Capt.Hook" Thompson, also of the = same=20 unit.

A friend of Charles Hanson, Jr., may all our = brothers be=20 breaking bread as you read this last post for an old friend.

A member of the original "Outhouse Gang" of = Colorado, which=20 seems to be slowly going to the other side, the old saying about the = good one=92s=20 go first is starting to "ring" true.

=95 Ben F. "Capt.Hook" Thompson craftsman,=20 researcher

=95 Dick "Keelboat" Whitmer * gun builder,=20 researcher

=95 Harvey "Plenty Whiskey" Wood * researcher,=20 craftsman

=95 Dick "Pony Tracks" Spencer * publisher,=20 researcher

=95 David L. "Brass Turtle" Sample * trader,=20 researcher

=95 John "Step" Musike lawman, = researcher

Barry "Buck" Conner * trader, = researcher

=95 Gary "Slim" Slivers US Army pilot,=20 researcher

Kermit "Powderhawk" Trustem craftsman, = researcher

=95 Daniel L. "Concho" Smith researcher, = craftsman

=95 Lee R. "Turtle" Boyer researcher, = teacher

--------------------------------

=95 Original "members" from the mid 60=92s through = the 80=92s that=20 have passed on.

          =             &= nbsp;       *=20 AMM Brothers

Thank you for your time and a chance to remember our = friend=20 "Concho".

Take care,
Buck Conner

AMM Free Trapper

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C26BDC.ECB0EBB0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Rock Subject: MtMan-List: [Fwd: [patriot] (fwd) URGENT....anti-hunting legislation alert!!!] Date: 04 Oct 2002 21:48:09 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------640383C63A6903AEF6037BE5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------640383C63A6903AEF6037BE5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from psmtp.com (exprod5mx44.postini.com [64.75.1.211]) by pearl.mhtc.net (8.10.1/8.11.0) with SMTP id g952ZoT17463 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:35:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from source ([66.218.66.88]) by exprod5mx44.postini.com ([64.75.1.245]) with SMTP; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 19:35:49 PDT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-10547-17528-1033785349-mikerock=mhtc.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Oct 2002 02:35:49 -0000 X-Sender: chasm@texas.net X-Apparently-To: patriot@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_2_0); 5 Oct 2002 02:35:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 23136 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2002 02:35:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Oct 2002 02:35:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.aus1.texas.net) (206.127.30.22) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 2002 02:35:49 -0000 Received: from tcnet01-003.houston.texas.net (tcnet01-003.houston.texas.net [216.166.44.3]) by mail2.aus1.texas.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g952Zkr05365; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:35:47 -0500 (CDT) Organization: Horn'd Toad Enterprises RKBA! Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-Yahoo-Profile: schuetzen MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list patriot@yahoogroups.com; contact patriot-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list patriot@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: patriot-owner@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-pstn-levels: (C:66.0607 M:99.8512 P:95.9108 S: 3.5662 ) X-pstn-settings: 3 (1.0000:2.0000) pmCr X-pstn-addresses: from forward (user good) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/A0NplB/TM On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 22:25:06 -0400, "Fred A. Miller" wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The attached is from the US Sportsmen's Alliance. It is a great example of the anti's picking on an unpopular segment of the hunting community while putting all of hunting at risk at the same time. Call and/or email your Senator today! Senate Bill Federalizes Wildlife Laws, Puts Hunting at Risk Legislation is now before the Senate Judiciary Committee that could seriously jeopardize game programs across the country by federalizing hunting laws. Senate Bill 1655 would put a "one size fits all" policy on wildlife management activities that ignores the diverse hunting culture in this country. Sportsmen across the nation need to contact their U.S. Senators in opposition to this bill. Senate Bill 1655 purports to ban the hunting of exotic animals in enclosures. Titled the Captive Exotic Animal Protection Act, it also allows the federal government to define "fair chase," ignoring the hunting culture, as it exists in different states. It opens the door for the federal government to begin regulating hunting and fishing. Until now, it only intervened on wildlife issues that concerned endangered or migratory species. For example, congressmen from California and Massachusetts would have a voice in the management of wildlife in South Dakota or Tennessee. This is not the duty of Congress - it is the responsibility of state wildlife agencies, which exist to manage wildlife in their own states. Senate Bill 1655 was originally written to ban all hunting in enclosures, but the bill's sponsors could not muster support for legislation that would ban hunting on some of the largest ranches in the country. It was scaled back, and now applies only to exotic mammals, such as lions. However, if Senate Bill 1655 passes, it would only take an amendment to apply the ban to all hunting behind fences. Senate Bill 1655 would give anti-hunters an opportunity to concentrate their huge financial warchests at one body, the U.S. Congress, rather than having to take their cases to each state legislature. The anti's are relying on sportsmen to concentrate on the notion that the bill will simply ban hunting of exotic animals within enclosures. They hope that hunters will overlook the dangers Senate Bill 1655 presents to the future of hunting. Senate Bill 1655 must be defeated in the Senate Judiciary Committee. The bill is scheduled to come to a vote before the Senate Judiciary Committee in early October. Call both of your U.S. Senators today! Contact them by calling 202-224-3121 and asking to be connected to their offices or by going to the Legislative Action Center at www.ussportsmen.org. Ask each of your senators to vote against Senate Bill 1655 because it undermines wildlife conservation across the country. Also, if you are a resident of any of the states below, contact your member of the Senate Judiciary Committee and ask him or her to vote against Senate Bill 1655 because it is vague and would adversely affect sportsmen. The members are: Patrick Leahy (D-VT) 202-224-4242 Chairman Joseph Biden (D-DE) 202-224-5042 Sam Brownback (R-KS) 202-224-6521 Maria Cantwell (D-WA) 202-224-3441 Mike DeWine (R-OH) 202-224-2315 Richard Durbin (D-IL) 202-224-2152 John Edwards (D-NC) 202-224-3154 Russell Feingold (D-WI) 202-224-5323 Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) 202-224-3841 Charles Grassley (R-IA) 202-224-3744 Orrin Hatch (R-UT) 202-224-5251 Edward Kennedy (D-MA) 202-224-4543 Herb Kohl (D-WI) 202-224-5653 Jon Kyle (R-AZ) 202-224-4521 Mitch McConnell (R-NY) 202-224-2541 Charles Schumer (D-NY) 202-224-6542 Jeff Sessions (R-AL) 202-224-4124 Arlen Specter (R-PA) 202-224-5454 Strom Thurmond (R-SC) 202-224-5972 - -- "DRM.. Digitally Retarded Media. That's exactly what it is - content that cannot reach its full potential because of artificial restraints." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Netscape - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAj2eTYEACgkQeNJ3p8sZ/uv8qgCfYMLpBCsjw5hj95JvFbNAqg2x VvIAoIrqJ9/UdfBRVvnKjw8qJKJYmaPH =C0gp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ... Please keep replies trimmed. That includes that annoying advertisement above - chas Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --------------640383C63A6903AEF6037BE5-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: [Fwd: [patriot] (fwd) URGENT....anti-hunting legislation alert!!!] Date: 06 Oct 2002 10:06:09 -0400 thanks pard---sent a message out--- hawk ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "PPD" Subject: How would you like legal services for $25/month? YOU CAN!! Date: 05 Oct 2002 20:19:13 TICKETS BE GONE If you would like to learn how you can earn thousands a month and quit your current job, click on this link and join Pre-Paid Services (Stock Symbol PPD). If you would like to be removed from this company's mailing list, please click . Enter the email address you want removed in the subject line. This is not the email address to answer legal questions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Daniel L. "Concho" Smith Date: 07 Oct 2002 10:46:15 -0600 Let it me known that Daniel L. "Concho" Smith has moved to the other side as of early this morning 10/04/2002. I did not know Concho other than from this list but my condolences to his family and friends. Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Daniel L. "Concho" Smith Date: 08 Oct 2002 06:28:20 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C26E93.E5411210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Buck Conner ~ LenapeSociety ~ AmericanMountainMen ~=20 To: ammlist@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:56 PM Subject: AMM-List: Daniel L. "Concho" Smith Let it me known that Daniel L. "Concho" Smith has moved to the other = side as of early this morning 10/04/2002. Remembered for his witt, = craftsmanship and the always present smile ready to sing you a song or = play a tune. Many knew him as "Concho" with no other name in the F&I War = to Fur Trade circles from Colorado to many sites heading East. A man of many talents, smithing to quill work, several on this list = wear his wares made over a 30 year period. A regular at Ft.deChartre, = Bent's, Ft. Osage and many western events that expanded into the = furtherest northern points in resent years. A Pennsylvania, Missouri and = Colorado muzzle loading Champion many times over, best know in the 80's = for his long string of 50 - 5X's at major events in the states mentioned = as well as other contests of one's skills. With a mild manner, there was another side that most know little of = from years gone bye, a Navy Seal from Seal Team One, having won a Purple = Heart and the Navy Cross for his work in Nam in the early 60's, there = making association with the late Ben "Capt.Hook" Thompson, also of the = same unit. A friend of Charles Hanson, Jr., may all our brothers be breaking = bread as you read this last post for an old friend. A member of the original "Outhouse Gang" of Colorado, which seems to = be slowly going to the other side, the old saying about the good one's = go first is starting to "ring" true. . Ben F. "Capt.Hook" Thompson craftsman, researcher . Dick "Keelboat" Whitmer * gun builder, researcher . Harvey "Plenty Whiskey" Wood * researcher, craftsman . Dick "Pony Tracks" Spencer * publisher, researcher . David L. "Brass Turtle" Sample * trader, researcher . John "Step" Musike lawman, researcher Barry "Buck" Conner * trader, researcher . Gary "Slim" Slivers US Army pilot, researcher Kermit "Powderhawk" Trustem craftsman, researcher . Daniel L. "Concho" Smith researcher, craftsman . Lee R. "Turtle" Boyer researcher, teacher -------------------------------- . Original "members" from the mid 60's through the 80's that have = passed on. * AMM Brothers Thank you for your time and a chance to remember our friend "Concho". Take care, Buck Conner=20 AMM Free Trapper ------------------------------------- If one of you that's on the "hist_list" would please put this on there = as "Concho" was a regular on that mailing, (I have not been on that list = since the "Raven Gal" was going on about nothing a year or so ago). Thanks Buck ----- MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click = Here -------------------- Aux Aliments de Pays! ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C26E93.E5411210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Buck=20 Conner ~ LenapeSociety ~ AmericanMountainMen ~
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 = 9:56=20 PM
Subject: AMM-List: Daniel L. = "Concho"=20 Smith

Let it me known that Daniel L. "Concho" Smith has moved to the = other side=20 as of early this morning 10/04/2002. Remembered for his witt, = craftsmanship=20 and the always present smile ready to sing you a song or play a tune. = Many=20 knew him as "Concho" with no other name in the F&I War to Fur = Trade=20 circles from Colorado to many sites heading East.

A man of many talents, smithing to quill work, several on this list = wear=20 his wares made over a 30 year period. A regular at Ft.deChartre, = Bent's, Ft.=20 Osage and many western events that expanded into the furtherest = northern=20 points in resent years. A Pennsylvania, Missouri and Colorado muzzle = loading=20 Champion many times over, best know in the 80=92s for his long string = of 50 -=20 5X=92s at major events in the states mentioned as well as other = contests of=20 one=92s skills.

With a mild manner, there was another side that most know little of = from=20 years gone bye, a Navy Seal from Seal Team One, having won a Purple = Heart and=20 the Navy Cross for his work in Nam in the early 60's, there making = association=20 with the late Ben "Capt.Hook" Thompson, also of the same unit.

A friend of Charles Hanson, Jr., may all our brothers be breaking = bread as=20 you read this last post for an old friend.

A member of the original "Outhouse Gang" of Colorado, which seems = to be=20 slowly going to the other side, the old saying about the good one=92s = go first=20 is starting to "ring" true.

=95 Ben F. "Capt.Hook" Thompson craftsman, researcher

=95 Dick "Keelboat" Whitmer * gun builder, researcher

=95 Harvey "Plenty Whiskey" Wood * researcher, craftsman

=95 Dick "Pony Tracks" Spencer * publisher, researcher

=95 David L. "Brass Turtle" Sample * trader, researcher

=95 John "Step" Musike lawman, researcher

Barry "Buck" Conner * trader, researcher

=95 Gary "Slim" Slivers US Army pilot, researcher

Kermit "Powderhawk" Trustem craftsman, researcher

=95 Daniel L. "Concho" Smith researcher, craftsman

=95 Lee R. "Turtle" Boyer researcher, teacher

--------------------------------

=95 Original "members" from the mid 60=92s through the 80=92s that = have passed=20 on.

 =

           &nbs= p;            = ;      *=20 AMM Brothers

Thank you for your time and a chance to remember = our=20 friend "Concho".

Take care,
Buck Conner

AMM Free Trapper

-------------------------------------

If one of you that's on the "hist_list" would please put this on = there as=20 "Concho" was a regular on that mailing, (I have not been on that list = since=20 the "Raven Gal" was going on about nothing a year or so ago).

Thanks

Buck

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click=20 Here
-------------------- Aux Aliments de Pays!=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C26E93.E5411210-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandra Delgado Subject: Felicidades!!!! Date: 08 Oct 2002 08:39:37 -0400

FELICIDADES!!!!

Entre miles de familias, la suya ha sido seleccionada para unirse a nosotros y celebrar 

Los Cien Años de Magia del fantastico Mundo de Disney.

Contactenos inmediatamente 

Llame gratis en EE UU y Puerto Rico al 1-800-546-8034

Fuera de EE UU, llame al 001-305-264-6888

 

        

Su número de confirmación: E-1082

Para reclamar su premio llame dentro de las proximas 48 horas. Oferta valida para una familia.

Horario de atencion de Lunes a Sabado de 9:00 a.m. a  9:00 p.m.,  hora de Miami
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Northern Lights... Now & Then Date: 08 Oct 2002 19:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Dear List, This morning I left for work at 3:30 AM and was greeted with the Northern Lights! They were very bright and at first appeared to be the glow of a distant city, but of course there are no big cities near me to the north. I sometimes stop on the road and watch them for a while as they dance around. I could detect a bit of green in them this morning but usually they look just white to me. I almost always think of Osborne Russell’s experience with the Northern Lights and Indians when I see them. Russell writes about the Northern Lights as his brigade of trappers prepared a fortress to thwart an expected Indian attack. “(February 22nd, 1837) This being completed (the breastwork) at dark a double guard was mounted and all remained quiet but it was a bitter Cold night. I mounted guard from 9 till 12 oclk the weather was clear the stars shone with an unusual luster and the trees cracked like pistols about 10 oclk the northern lights commenced streaming up darting flashing rushing to and fro like the movements of an army at length the shooting and flashing died away and gradually turned to a deep blood red spreading over one half of the sky. This awful and sublime phenomenon ( if I may be allowed to mingle such terms) last near two hours then gradually disappeared-and being relieved by the morning guard I went to bed and slept soundly till Sunrise…The next day…The Chief who wore a white blanket came forward a few steps and gave us the signal that he should not fight but return to his village……. We came to the conclusion…that the wonderful appearance of the heavens a few nights previous connected with our strong fortification had caused them to abandon the ground without an attack which is very probable as all Indians are very superstitious. We supposed on examining their Camp next day that (their) numbers must have been about eleven hundred who had started from their village with the determination of rubbing us from the face of the earth but that the Great spirit had shown them that their side of the heavens was bloody whilst ours was Clear and Serene”. What a great journal! Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Angela Gottfred" Subject: MtMan-List: Witney Mills closing? Date: 09 Oct 2002 07:06:17 -0600 On another list, someone was wondering whether Witney Woollen Mills, of Witney, Oxfordshire, England, has closed their doors. Does anyone know for sure what the story is? Your very humble & most obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Prince, John" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Northern Lights... Now & Then Date: 09 Oct 2002 07:08:37 -0700 I just finished reading Russel's journel for the first time. His descriptions of the places and sights he saw was truly inspiring. What impressed me most of all however, is just how well read and bright these adventurers were! While he was at one of the forts he states that his companions amused themselves by reading Bryon's Shakesphere, Sir Walter Scott's work, and the Bible. While the Bible was not surprising, the first two certainly were! Even in modern colleges these two works are not every day reading! J. Prince ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Prince, John" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Northern Lights... Now & Then Date: 09 Oct 2002 07:08:37 -0700 I just finished reading Russel's journel for the first time. His descriptions of the places and sights he saw was truly inspiring. What impressed me most of all however, is just how well read and bright these adventurers were! While he was at one of the forts he states that his companions amused themselves by reading Bryon's Shakesphere, Sir Walter Scott's work, and the Bible. While the Bible was not surprising, the first two certainly were! Even in modern colleges these two works are not every day reading! J. Prince ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Witney Mills closing? Date: 09 Oct 2002 10:01:15 -0600 Why don't we e-mail them and ask? ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 7:06 AM > On another list, someone was wondering whether Witney Woollen Mills, of > Witney, Oxfordshire, England, has closed their doors. Does anyone know > for sure what the story is? > > Your very humble & most obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Witney Mills closing? Date: 09 Oct 2002 09:46:51 -0500 Just discussed this matter with the Witney importer, and the rumor is untrue. The factory has moved. Not out of business and not going out of business. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 8:06 AM > On another list, someone was wondering whether Witney Woollen Mills, of > Witney, Oxfordshire, England, has closed their doors. Does anyone know > for sure what the story is? > > Your very humble & most obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: hello Paul Jones Date: 09 Oct 2002 19:37:51 EDT --part1_148.81333.2ad617cf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul, It is good to see you posting again. Havent seen you post in some time. Welcome back. frank sablan Midland,Texas --part1_148.81333.2ad617cf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul,

It is good to see you posting again.  Havent seen you post in some time.  Welcome back.

frank sablan
Midland,Texas --part1_148.81333.2ad617cf_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Powell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Witney Mills closing? Date: 09 Oct 2002 23:20:03 -0600 ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C26FEA.65AD93E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, The rumors of Whitney's demise is greatly in error. They are merely relo= cating down the road in the little town in which they do business. There= has been some speculation as to the influx of competion to the Whitney p= roduct but this too is false. Whitney is not intimidated by competitors.= Anyone needing more info, I would invite you to contact Paul Mueller at= Northwest Traders. The only change I do know is that Whitney's 4Pt blan= kets now retail for $149, up $10 from about 8 months ago. I go through a= pprox 30-40 Whitneys a year and make many capotes and other products and = Whitney quality is at the top of my list for the price. Mike Powell =20 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:41 PM Why don't we e-mail them and ask? ----- Original Message ----- =20 Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 7:06 AM > On another list, someone was wondering whether Witney Woollen Mills, of > Witney, Oxfordshire, England, has closed their doors. Does anyone know > for sure what the story is? > =20 > Your very humble & most obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred > =20 > =20 > =20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > =20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.htmlGe= t more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.co= m ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C26FEA.65AD93E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All,
The rumors of Whitney's demise is greatly in error.  They are mere= ly relocating down the road in the little town in which they do business.=   There has been some speculation as to the influx of competion to t= he Whitney product but this too is false.  Whitney is not intimidate= d by competitors.  Anyone needing more info, I would invite you to c= ontact Paul Mueller at Northwest Traders.  The only change I do know= is that Whitney's 4Pt blankets now retail for $149, up $10 fro= m about 8 months ago.  I go through approx 30-40 Whitneys a year and= make many capotes and other products and Whitney quality is at the top o= f my list for the price.
Mike Powell  
 <= /DIV>
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Hick= man
Sent: Wednesday, October= 09, 2002 3:41 PM
To: hist_t= ext@lists.xmission.com
Subject:<= /B> Re: MtMan-List: Witney Mills closing?
 
Why don= 't we e-mail them and ask?

----- Original Message -----
From: = "Angela Gottfred" <agottfre@telusplanet.net>
To: <hist_text-d= igest@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 7:06 AM=
Subject: MtMan-List: Witney Mills closing?


> On anothe= r list, someone was wondering whether Witney Woollen Mills, of
> Wi= tney, Oxfordshire, England, has closed their doors. Does anyone know
&= gt; for sure what the story is?
>
> Your very humble & m= ost obedient servant,
> Angela Gottfred
>
>
> <= BR>> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xm= ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


---------------= -------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/mail= list.html

Get more from= the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C26FEA.65AD93E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Witney Mills closing? Date: 10 Oct 2002 08:08:49 -0600 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3117082129_90667_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 10/9/02 11:20 PM, Michael Powell at amm1769@hotmail.com wrote: All, The rumors of Whitney's demise is greatly in error. They are merely relocating down the road in the little town in which they do business. There has been some speculation as to the influx of competion to the Whitney product but this too is false. Whitney is not intimidated by competitors. Anyone needing more info, I would invite you to contact Paul Mueller at Northwest Traders. The only change I do know is that Whitney's 4Pt blankets now retail for $149, up $10 from about 8 months ago. I go through approx 30-40 Whitneys a year and make many capotes and other products and Whitney quality is at the top of my list for the price. Mike Powell ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:41 PM Why don't we e-mail them and ask? ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 7:06 AM > On another list, someone was wondering whether Witney Woollen Mills, of > Witney, Oxfordshire, England, has closed their doors. Does anyone know > for sure what the story is? > > Your very humble & most obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Gentelmen, Hudson Bay is priced high and Whitney is getting there, Barron is out of buisiness. How many other Blanket manufacturers are there and what are there names and how do you get a hold of them? Ole --MS_Mac_OE_3117082129_90667_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: MtMan-List: Witney Mills closing? on 10/9/02 11:20 PM, Michael Powell at amm1769@hotmail.com wrote:

All,

The rumors of Whitney's demise is greatly in error.  They are merely r= elocating down the road in the little town in which they do business.  = There has been some speculation as to the influx of competion to the Whitney= product but this too is false.  Whitney is not intimidated by competit= ors.  Anyone needing more info, I would invite you to contact Paul Muel= ler at Northwest Traders.  The only change I do know is that Whitney's = 4Pt blankets now retail for $149, up $10 from about 8 months ago.  I go= through approx 30-40 Whitneys a year and make many capotes and other produc= ts and Whitney quality is at the top of my list for the price.

Mike Powell  




----- Original Message -----

From: Gene Hickman

Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:41 PM

To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com

Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Witney Mills closing?


Why don't we e-mail them and ask?

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 7:06 AM


> On another list, someone was wondering whether Witney Woollen Mills, o= f
> Witney, Oxfordshire, England, has closed their doors. Does anyone know=
> for sure what the story is?
>
> Your very humble & most obedient servant,
> Angela Gottfred
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.htm= l
>


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http= ://explorer.msn.com


Gentelmen,
Hudson Bay is priced high and Whitney is getting there, Barron is out of bu= isiness. How many other Blanket manufacturers are there and what are there n= ames and how do you get a hold of them?
Ole --MS_Mac_OE_3117082129_90667_MIME_Part-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DONALD R SIMMONS Subject: MtMan-List: Query Date: 10 Oct 2002 09:08:52 -0600 Does anyone know of a source of Turkey WIng feathers ( Naturally Barred ) that I could obtain for some Arrow Fletching projects?? Possibly Canadian Goose would work as well ?? i.e. natural "period" materials to make Injun arrows!! Thanks, Don Simmons ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DONALD R SIMMONS Subject: MtMan-List: Query Date: 10 Oct 2002 09:08:52 -0600 Does anyone know of a source of Turkey WIng feathers ( Naturally Barred ) that I could obtain for some Arrow Fletching projects?? Possibly Canadian Goose would work as well ?? i.e. natural "period" materials to make Injun arrows!! Thanks, Don Simmons ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Query Date: 10 Oct 2002 12:48:34 EDT --part1_25.2f002acc.2ad70962_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try Lietzau Taxidermy, Cosmo, Minnesota. Don't think they have a website, so you'll have to call, but they got 'em! Barney --part1_25.2f002acc.2ad70962_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try Lietzau Taxidermy, Cosmo, Minnesota. Don't think they have a website, so you'll have to call, but they got 'em!   Barney --part1_25.2f002acc.2ad70962_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Query Date: 10 Oct 2002 12:51:10 EDT --part1_59.22db7d66.2ad709fe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/10/2002 8:11:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, drsimm@juno.com writes: > Does anyone know of a source of Turkey WIng feathers hideandfur.com - Moscow Hide and Fur --part1_59.22db7d66.2ad709fe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/10/2002 8:11:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, drsimm@juno.com writes:


Does anyone know of a source of Turkey WIng feathers


hideandfur.com - Moscow Hide and Fur --part1_59.22db7d66.2ad709fe_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Query Date: 10 Oct 2002 13:41:02 EDT I raise some wild turkeys and have a permit through my state wildlife dept. that allows me to legally. I often pick up good wing feathers. How many do you need. Ridge Pole AKA Joe AKA TrapRJoe ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Query Date: 10 Oct 2002 12:54:08 -0500 Don, Try: http://www.valleytradarchery.com/ Tell Jerry & Bobbi I said to call, nice people. Jerry can help save you money in the long run by buying what you need the first time. He can provide the right or left wing feathers you prefer, others will probably say "HUH". If you don't know which you prefer you might want to talk with him. John... At 10:08 AM 10/10/02, you wrote: > Does anyone know of a source of Turkey WIng feathers ( Naturally Barred >) that I could >obtain for some Arrow Fletching projects?? >Possibly Canadian Goose would work as well ?? >i.e. natural "period" materials to make Injun arrows!! >Thanks, >Don Simmons >---------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >====================================== >A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should >have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence >from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own >government. - George Washington >==================================== --George Washington, speech of January 7, 1790, printed in the Boston Independent Chronicle, January 14, 1790. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Browning Damascus barrels Date: 10 Oct 2002 19:06:51 EDT Wooooohooooo! After scrounging around for years, I finally found a near mint set of 12ga Damascus barrels. They are 32 inches long and the bores appear to have never been shot. While they look nicely browned, (see at the address) they are more "in the white" as I see them. db.jpg http://www.members.aol.com/swcushing/db.jpg My question is: Has anyone tried to brown Damascus barrels and still have the "figure" stand out? ....and, of course, how did you do it? I'm thinking rather than using a cold brown, (rust) maybe try some of the hot plumb brown stuff....suggestions? I got them from a local gunsmith that explained to me that they were worthless for shooting anymore.... he took $20 for them and I never mentioned they'd be breeched, and proofed with a double load of black powder.... Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Browning Damascus barrels Date: 10 Oct 2002 16:20:0 -0700 MAGPIE, Why mess with them???? Heating to plum brown might warp them????? They are a beautiful set of barrels, leave them be..... hardtack > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Cc: ; > Date: 10/10/02 12:06:51 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Browning Damascus barrels > > Wooooohooooo! > > After scrounging around for years, I finally found a near mint set of 12ga > Damascus barrels. They are 32 inches long and the bores appear to have never > been shot. While they look nicely browned, (see at the address) they are more > "in the white" as I see them. > db.jpg > http://www.members.aol.com/swcushing/db.jpg > > My question is: Has anyone tried to brown Damascus barrels and still have the > "figure" stand out? ....and, of course, how did you do it? I'm thinking > rather than using a cold brown, (rust) maybe try some of the hot plumb brown > stuff....suggestions? > > I got them from a local gunsmith that explained to me that they were > worthless for shooting anymore.... he took $20 for them and I never mentioned > they'd be breeched, and proofed with a double load of black powder.... > > Ymos, > Magpie > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --- Randal Bublitz --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net we have NOT inherited the Earth from our father ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Query Date: 10 Oct 2002 19:51:49 -0600 (MDT) Don, I believe NO MIGRATORY bird parts such as wild goose can ever be purchased or sold. I believe that is a federal offense. Turkey feathers of course come from non-migratory birds. The primary feathers both left and right make the best fletchings however the secondary's and even tail feathers work just fine too. I used them all with great results. Indians used any and all feathers they could get there hands on. Just keep the lefts together and the rights together. Half your arrows will spin right the other half left. The natural curve of the feather creates a helical fletch. Feather dealers usually get more for number 1's feathers with the whole shaft but number 2's (shafts clipped from the wing not plucked) cost less and are fine for fletchings. You can also pick up all the goose feathers you could ever use when they molt in the spring. Just find where they are raising there goslings and wait for the molt. Then take a bag with you and pick them up. beaverboy > Does anyone know of a source of Turkey WIng feathers ( Naturally Barred > ) that I could > obtain for some Arrow Fletching projects?? > Possibly Canadian Goose would work as well ?? > i.e. natural "period" materials to make Injun arrows!! > Thanks, > Don Simmons > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ikon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Query Date: 10 Oct 2002 22:03:21 -0700 Don, Call Raven Arrows at 208-256-4341. They are located in ID. I use to purchase all my goose and turkey feathers from this guy. His number two's are better than most number ones. His goose are excellant. I switched from barred turkey to brown goose feathers as they are alot softer and quieter. These are pen raised critters. Good Luck, Frank ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 6:51 PM > Don, > I believe NO MIGRATORY bird parts such as wild goose can ever be > purchased or sold. I believe that is a federal offense. Turkey feathers of > course come from non-migratory birds. The primary feathers both left and > right make the best fletchings however the secondary's and even tail > feathers work just fine too. I used them all with great results. Indians > used any and all feathers they could get there hands on. Just keep the > lefts together and the rights together. Half your arrows will spin right > the other half left. The natural curve of the feather creates a helical > fletch. > Feather dealers usually get more for number 1's feathers with the whole > shaft but number 2's (shafts clipped from the wing not plucked) cost less > and are fine for fletchings. > You can also pick up all the goose feathers you could ever use when > they molt in the spring. Just find where they are raising there goslings > and wait for the molt. Then take a bag with you and pick them up. > beaverboy > > > > Does anyone know of a source of Turkey WIng feathers ( Naturally Barred > > ) that I could > > obtain for some Arrow Fletching projects?? > > Possibly Canadian Goose would work as well ?? > > i.e. natural "period" materials to make Injun arrows!! > > Thanks, > > Don Simmons > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Branson Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Browning Damascus barrels Date: 10 Oct 2002 21:17:19 -0700 (PDT) --0-981505306-1034309839=:31243 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I looked at your barrels. They look good if all of the barrels look as good as the section you published then you have some nice looking brown barrels. Damascus barrels were originally browned so the beautiful pattern of twisted metal would show through. The steel and iron wire was twisted in many different patterns so that when welded and polished these patterns would show. to re-brown them and hide the pattern would defeat the original gunsmiths plan to let the pattern show. Of course you should do what you think is best. Read WW Greener "The Gun and Its Development" He tries to give a simplified description of the process involved in browning damascus barrels so only the iron was browned and the steel was left in the white. His description is not in enough detail for a gunsmith to work with. In this space it is too difficult to describe what is involved in properly "blacking" english barrels. I suggest you contact someone like Churchhill about having these barrels re-browned properly. SWcushing@aol.com wrote:Wooooohooooo! After scrounging around for years, I finally found a near mint set of 12ga Damascus barrels. They are 32 inches long and the bores appear to have never been shot. While they look nicely browned, (see at the address) they are more "in the white" as I see them. db.jpg http://www.members.aol.com/swcushing/db.jpg My question is: Has anyone tried to brown Damascus barrels and still have the "figure" stand out? ....and, of course, how did you do it? I'm thinking rather than using a cold brown, (rust) maybe try some of the hot plumb brown stuff....suggestions? I got them from a local gunsmith that explained to me that they were worthless for shooting anymore.... he took $20 for them and I never mentioned they'd be breeched, and proofed with a double load of black powder.... Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith.yahoo.com --0-981505306-1034309839=:31243 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I looked at your barrels. They look good if all of the barrels look as good as the section you published then you have some nice looking brown barrels. Damascus barrels were originally browned so the beautiful pattern of twisted metal would show through. The steel and iron wire was twisted in many different patterns so that when welded and polished these patterns would show. to re-brown them and hide the pattern would defeat the original gunsmiths plan to let the pattern show. Of course you should do what you think is best. Read WW Greener "The Gun and Its Development" He tries to give a simplified description of the process involved in browning damascus barrels so only the iron was browned and the steel was left in the white. His description is not in enough detail for a gunsmith to work with. In this space it is too difficult to describe what is involved in properly "blacking" english barrels. I suggest you contact someone like Churchhill about having these barrels re-browned properly.

 SWcushing@aol.com wrote:

Wooooohooooo!

After scrounging around for years, I finally found a near mint set of 12ga
Damascus barrels. They are 32 inches long and the bores appear to have never
been shot. While they look nicely browned, (see at the address) they are more
"in the white" as I see them.
db.jpg
http://www.members.aol.com/swcushing/db.jpg

My question is: Has anyone tried to brown Damascus barrels and still have the
"figure" stand out? ....and, of course, how did you do it? I'm thinking
rather than using a cold brown, (rust) maybe try some of the hot plumb brown
stuff....suggestions?

I got them from a local gunsmith that explained to me that they were
worthless for shooting anymore.... he took $20 for them and I never mentioned
they'd be breeched, and proofed with a double load of black powder....

Ymos,
Magpie

----------------------
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faith.yahoo.com --0-981505306-1034309839=:31243-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Zeigler" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Query Date: 11 Oct 2002 06:04:59 -0400 Call Raven Arrows @ 208-256-4341, they have barred turkey, as well as goose already trimmed at very reasonable prices....Jim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: MtMan-List: Another Brother gone under Date: 11 Oct 2002 08:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Received word last week that former Capitaine Hawk Boughton passed away after a long illness. Hawk was a familiar figure to most of the Eastern brothers, and had a long history especially in the Kentucky area. My condolences to his friends and family, may the Sun shine bright in his new stomping grounds. Dog, Hiv. #617, AMM __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Another Brother gone under Date: 12 Oct 2002 12:24:10 -0400 how can we link up with the family--for cards and such---- hawk On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Ronald Schrotter writes: > Received word last week that former Capitaine Hawk > Boughton passed away after a long illness. Hawk was a > familiar figure to most of the Eastern brothers, and > had a long history especially in the Kentucky area. > My condolences to his friends and family, may the Sun > shine bright in his new stomping grounds. Dog, Hiv. > #617, AMM > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More > http://faith.yahoo.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Hunting Antelope on the Plains Date: 12 Oct 2002 08:32:10 -0600 (MDT) Dear List, Antelope season opens tomorrow in Montana and though I did not draw a tag I am reminiscing about past hunts. For the uninitiated into “goat” hunting you would think it was impossible to ever get close enough for a shot as they inhabit the most vast open sage flats and grasslands. Stalks can and are done successfully on them repeatedly. Hopefully the area you hunt has a little relief in the landscape to aid in the hunt. Care must be given to the wind as antelope pay close attention with their nose as well as their binocular eyesight. Stalks are done on a grand scale. Sometimes a hunter must circle miles and miles around a herd to get in position for a hunt without alarming the animals. Then if he or she is a true hunter they leave the road and start the stalk on foot. If you haven’t crawled on your hands and knees after antelope you are either the luckiest antelope hunter alive or an unsuccessful one! In this day and age of belted magnum rifles it is not necessary to get as close as years past but I try to get within 100-200 yards of them. The true antelope hunter uses but one shot for the kill or he dresses like a squaw! You Wyoming boys know what I mean by that. * The true hunter also never takes a running shot at antelope or any other big game. Curiosity has been the downfall of many a “lope”. Most of you have heard of flagging antelope, the art of waving a red or other colored flag as you lay on the ground to attract this curious animal. Well, I myself have had not much luck with this procedure and have actually scared them away by doing it. I seem to attract the curious ones by accident. Once while checking a coyote trap on the prairie I notice a heard of antelope wondering what I was doing. I laid down on the ground and they walked up to within 40 yards of me. Then after I killed my last antelope I wheeled my bright blue wheelbarrow out to retrieve it. So there I was on the prairie, the tallest thing for a hundred miles with a blue wheelbarrow, a camera set up on a tripod and my .06 sitting on the ground propped up by its bipod. This must have been quite a site for the antelope as a nicer buck than the one I had down approached to within 100 yards of me to investigate! The next antelope tag I draw I will just sit on the highest knoll in a red lawn chair reading a good book with my bright blue wheelbarrow and camera on a tripod next to me! Necessities of an antelope hunt are a lot of patience a flat shooting, accurate rifle equipped with bipod. A good accurate flinter could do the job but your talking long range shooting here, better be good with it. A good pair of binoculars are a must, and kneepads might not be a bad idea for when you have to crawl. Also be sure to have a backstop for you bullet before firing. Beaverboy *Wyoming has an annual one-shot antelope hunt. Multiple shot hunters must dress up like a squaw. Who can forget the image of former Secretary of the Interior James Watt dressed up like a squaw after his unsuccessful one-shot hunt! Yuk! It was not a very attractive picture! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: 2003 Fur Trade Symposium Web Page Date: 14 Oct 2002 22:44:41 -0600 (MDT) Dear List, I'm not sure if I mentioned this already but I'll say it anyway. The 2003 Fur Trade Symposium has a web page now, it is : www.fortbenton.com/symposium/ index.htm This should be a very good symposium in the heart of fur trade country. One highlight is the tour of 10 fur trade post sites! Ten of them! This would also be a great chance for the hardy ones to float the White Cliffs of the Missouri. You can launch right from the front gates of Fort Benton! BB ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: 'Hawk' Boughton Date: 15 Oct 2002 08:39:34 -0500 Yes, Hawk Boughton will be missed. Even though I hadn't seen him for years I remember him as a true gentleman and always with a friendly word and smile. And he was one of the most accomplished modern day buckskinners ever. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, AR http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Ribbon Date: 15 Oct 2002 18:15:49 -0600 I know that there are several referances to ribbon being used as decoration by the RMFT paticularly the Canadians and half breeds. Does anyone know what type ribbon available today most closely resembles what was available then? Also any guesses as to how it was used. I can not find the referances but I recall a quote by N Whitman I think that left me with the impression that they flowed or streamed along instead of being sewed on. Any input? WY ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: MtMan-List: A question for the Ornithologists amongst us? Date: 16 Oct 2002 00:57:40 -0500 >In again reading Zenas Leonard's Narrative I encountered a passage near >the end of his work that gave me pause. He speaks of the Crow celebrating a victory over the Blackfeet having their "heads delightfully ornamented with magpie and pheasant tails" My Websters 1828 carries a listing for pheasant; definition essentially the same as today. All of the history of pheasant that I can find; mentions attempts were made to introduce pheasant as early as 1733 none of which were successful until a couple dozen were released in Oregon in the 1880's, references to stocking in mountain and plains states are post-1900. Were pheasant feathers being traded out of the Orient with tea? Does anyone remember any on trade lists? Where did the Crow get pheasant feathers; and if there weren't any pheasants why were they mentioned in Websters? How did Zenas Leonard recognize them as such if they weren't successfully introduced until nearly 50 years after first publication of his book and almost 30 years after he died? Does anyone have an answer to this apparent anomaly? John... Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ribbon Date: 16 Oct 2002 01:30:49 -0600 Silk ribbon was used then and is still available. Try the Wooded Hamlet Designs web site: http://www.woodedhamlet.com/ Bead Shooter ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:15 PM > I know that there are several referances to ribbon being used as decoration > by the RMFT paticularly the Canadians and half breeds. Does anyone know > what type ribbon available today most closely resembles what was available > then? Also any guesses as to how it was used. I can not find the > referances but I recall a quote by N Whitman I think that left me with the > impression that they flowed or streamed along instead of being sewed on. > Any input? > WY > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A question for the Ornithologists amongst us? Date: 16 Oct 2002 01:40:51 -0600 Pheasant was a common "generic" term for most of the grouse. Lewis & Clark call both sage and sharp-tailed grouse a pheasant. They just beleived it was another kind of pheasant. I doubt that they thought it was a ring neck pheasant. Both of these grouse would be possibilities for your pheasant feathers. Probably sage grouse as they have much longer tail feathers than the sharp-tailed grouse. Bead Shooter ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:57 PM > > >In again reading Zenas Leonard's Narrative I encountered a passage near > >the end of his work that gave me pause. > > He speaks of the Crow celebrating a victory over the Blackfeet having their > "heads delightfully ornamented with magpie and pheasant tails" > > My Websters 1828 carries a listing for pheasant; definition essentially the > same as today. > > All of the history of pheasant that I can find; mentions attempts were made > to introduce pheasant as early as 1733 none of which were successful until > a couple dozen were released in Oregon in the 1880's, references to > stocking in mountain and plains states are post-1900. > > Were pheasant feathers being traded out of the Orient with tea? Does > anyone remember any on trade lists? > > Where did the Crow get pheasant feathers; and if there weren't any > pheasants why were they mentioned in Websters? How did Zenas Leonard > recognize them as such if they weren't successfully introduced until nearly > 50 years after first publication of his book and almost 30 years after he > died? > > Does anyone have an answer to this apparent anomaly? > > John... > > > Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. > John Kramer > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ribbon Date: 16 Oct 2002 11:03:22 -0400 Ribbon was used as trade goods.... gee gaws for the squaws... From what I have read, it was silk ribbon, about one inch wide and RED was the preferred color. It was used to decorate the lodges, on dresses, in the hair, etc... Regards, Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ribbon Date: 16 Oct 2002 12:29:41 EDT --part1_1c3.29da4d.2adeedf5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/16/2002 12:30:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ghickman9@attbi.com writes: > Silk ribbon was used then and is still available IIRC the term for the type of silk ribbon used then, and still available today, is grosgrain (pronounced grow-grain), which has a line-like texture to it. Barney --part1_1c3.29da4d.2adeedf5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/16/2002 12:30:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ghickman9@attbi.com writes:


Silk ribbon was used then and is still available



IIRC the term for the type of silk ribbon used then, and still available today, is grosgrain (pronounced grow-grain), which has a line-like texture to it.

Barney --part1_1c3.29da4d.2adeedf5_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A question for the Ornithologists amongst us? Date: 16 Oct 2002 13:38:49 -0500 Gene, If the only reference was Leonard I might buy the "generic" concept. My Websters 1828 defines as follows: GROUSE, n. grous. A heath-cock or cock of the wood, a fowl of the genus Tetrao. The name is given to several species,forming a particular division of the genus; such as the black game,the red game, the ptarmigan, the ruffed grouse, &c. PHEASANT, n. phez'ant. [L. phasianus.] A fowl of the genus Phasianus, of beautiful plumage, and its flesh delicate food. Most of The Corps of Discovery observations were more precise than assigning one name to markedly differing specie. I haven't read those journals in many years, maybe I should once more? I think this remains an open question. John... At 02:40 AM 10/16/02, you wrote: >Pheasant was a common "generic" term for most of the grouse. Lewis & Clark >call both sage and sharp-tailed grouse a pheasant. They just beleived it was >another kind of pheasant. I doubt that they thought it was a ring neck >pheasant. Both of these grouse would be possibilities for your pheasant >feathers. Probably sage grouse as they have much longer tail feathers than >the sharp-tailed grouse. > >Bead Shooter > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Kramer" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:57 PM >Subject: MtMan-List: A question for the Ornithologists amongst us? > > > > > > >In again reading Zenas Leonard's Narrative I encountered a passage near > > >the end of his work that gave me pause. > > > > He speaks of the Crow celebrating a victory over the Blackfeet having >their > > "heads delightfully ornamented with magpie and pheasant tails" > > > > My Websters 1828 carries a listing for pheasant; definition essentially >the > > same as today. > > > > All of the history of pheasant that I can find; mentions attempts were >made > > to introduce pheasant as early as 1733 none of which were successful until > > a couple dozen were released in Oregon in the 1880's, references to > > stocking in mountain and plains states are post-1900. > > > > Were pheasant feathers being traded out of the Orient with tea? Does > > anyone remember any on trade lists? > > > > Where did the Crow get pheasant feathers; and if there weren't any > > pheasants why were they mentioned in Websters? How did Zenas Leonard > > recognize them as such if they weren't successfully introduced until >nearly > > 50 years after first publication of his book and almost 30 years after he > > died? > > > > Does anyone have an answer to this apparent anomaly? > > > > John... > > > > > > Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. > > John Kramer > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin 1759 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John L. Allen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A question for the Ornithologists amongst us? Date: 16 Oct 2002 13:07:25 -0600 Beginning as early as Lewis and Clark, western travelers had referred to various grouse species as "pheasants". On the Bitterroot Trail in the fall of 1805, Lewis notes that the only thing they had killed and eaten in several days was a few "pheasants". My assumption is that Leonard was making the same general error and was described what were probably tail feathers from sage grouse. This certainly would have been consistent with other northern Plains tribes who used sage grouse, prairie grouse, and other grouse feathers in their ornamentation. This is also a much simpler explanation than trying to explain how Chinese pheasant feathers work their way through trade routes to the Apsarokee people without becoming so bedraggled that they wouldn't have been much good for anything. But a great question! John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:57 PM > > >In again reading Zenas Leonard's Narrative I encountered a passage near > >the end of his work that gave me pause. > > He speaks of the Crow celebrating a victory over the Blackfeet having their > "heads delightfully ornamented with magpie and pheasant tails" > > My Websters 1828 carries a listing for pheasant; definition essentially the > same as today. > > All of the history of pheasant that I can find; mentions attempts were made > to introduce pheasant as early as 1733 none of which were successful until > a couple dozen were released in Oregon in the 1880's, references to > stocking in mountain and plains states are post-1900. > > Were pheasant feathers being traded out of the Orient with tea? Does > anyone remember any on trade lists? > > Where did the Crow get pheasant feathers; and if there weren't any > pheasants why were they mentioned in Websters? How did Zenas Leonard > recognize them as such if they weren't successfully introduced until nearly > 50 years after first publication of his book and almost 30 years after he > died? > > Does anyone have an answer to this apparent anomaly? > > John... > > > Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. > John Kramer > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A question for the Ornithologists amongst us? Date: 16 Oct 2002 15:19:27 EDT In a message dated 10/16/02 1:08:47 PM, jlallen@wyoming.com writes: << Beginning as early as Lewis and Clark, western travelers had referred to various grouse species as "pheasants". >> Kinda like when they refered to all grains as "corn" or "wheat"?? Will you go with that one, John?? Laramie! Any snow there, yet? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John L. Allen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A question for the Ornithologists amongst us? Date: 16 Oct 2002 14:22:08 -0600 Pretty much the same--although the Europeans did the same thing with grains, using the generic term "corn" to refer to grain crops/plants. Some little snow in the Laramie Plains, more in the mountains and a lot more in the northern end of the state. I sat at our cabin on the North Fork of the Shoshone last Sunday morning, with about 5 inches of fresh snow on the ground, watching three buffalo graze in the meadow in front of our place (we're near the east gate of Yellowstone and the buffalo begin to wander down into our valley about now). About a hundred yards away from them was the neighborhood grizz, sitting on the ground with his hind legs stuck out in front of him, like he was waiting for breakfast. Terrible country to have to call home. John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 1:19 PM > > In a message dated 10/16/02 1:08:47 PM, jlallen@wyoming.com writes: > > << Beginning as early as Lewis and Clark, western travelers had referred to > > various grouse species as "pheasants". >> > > Kinda like when they refered to all grains as "corn" or "wheat"?? > Will you go with that one, John?? > > Laramie! Any snow there, yet? > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A question for the Ornithologists amongst us? Date: 16 Oct 2002 20:28:31 -0600 The books in the library on pheasants say that they were brought back here = from China by our ambassadors - 1891 thru San Francisco and 1896 thru the = East Coast - the first successful transplants. Don On Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:57 PM, John Kramer = wrote: > >>In again reading Zenas Leonard's Narrative I encountered a passage near=20 >>the end of his work that gave me pause. > >He speaks of the Crow celebrating a victory over the Blackfeet having = their=20 >"heads delightfully ornamented with magpie and pheasant tails" > >My Websters 1828 carries a listing for pheasant; definition essentially = the=20 >same as today. > >All of the history of pheasant that I can find; mentions attempts were = made=20 >to introduce pheasant as early as 1733 none of which were successful = until=20 >a couple dozen were released in Oregon in the 1880's, references to=20 >stocking in mountain and plains states are post-1900. > >Were pheasant feathers being traded out of the Orient with tea? Does=20 >anyone remember any on trade lists? > >Where did the Crow get pheasant feathers; and if there weren't any=20 >pheasants why were they mentioned in Websters? How did Zenas Leonard=20 >recognize them as such if they weren't successfully introduced until = nearly=20 >50 years after first publication of his book and almost 30 years after he=20 >died? > >Does anyone have an answer to this apparent anomaly? > >John... > > >Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. >John Kramer > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: need a bag mold Date: 20 Oct 2002 18:50:11 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C27869.84AC78B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ho the list My neighbor and AMM brother Steve Maples is looking for a bag mold in = .648 to .650. Anybody got one for sale or trade? Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C27869.84AC78B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ho the list
My neighbor and AMM brother = Steve=20 Maples is looking for a bag mold in .648 to .650.  Anybody got one = for sale=20 or trade?
 
Lanney Ratcliff
lanneyratcliff@charter.net=
______________________________________________________________
Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays
------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C27869.84AC78B0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need a bag mold Date: 20 Oct 2002 20:03:35 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C27873.C5BA7AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Who you callin' "HO"??? D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: AMM=20 Cc: History List=20 Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 7:50 PM Subject: MtMan-List: need a bag mold Ho the list My neighbor and AMM brother Steve Maples is looking for a bag mold in = .648 to .650. Anybody got one for sale or trade? Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C27873.C5BA7AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Who you callin'=20 "HO"???<BG>
D
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lanney Ratcliff
To: AMM
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 = 7:50=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: need a bag = mold

Ho the list
My neighbor and AMM = brother Steve=20 Maples is looking for a bag mold in .648 to .650.  Anybody got = one for=20 sale or trade?
 
Lanney Ratcliff
lanneyratcliff@charter.net=
______________________________________________________________
Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C27873.C5BA7AA0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need a bag mold Date: 20 Oct 2002 21:21:59 -0400 Log Cabin Shop has them..... Can't find a web address for them.... Out of Lodi. OH. Regards, Ad ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need a bag mold Date: 20 Oct 2002 21:13:58 -0500 Thanks Ad I looked it up and found this address for their online catalog: http://www.logcabinshop.com/catalog/catmain.html Lanney ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 8:21 PM > Log Cabin Shop has them..... Can't find a web address for them.... Out > of Lodi. OH. > > Regards, > > Ad > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need a bag mold Date: 20 Oct 2002 20:55:34 -0700 "...Log Cabin Shop has them..... Can't find a web address for them.... Out of Lodi. OH..." Try: www.logcabinshop.com they show the Rapine bag molds, (which are good'uns) at $59.95. I have several that I would be willing to part with, but not that calibre. Black Knife Ni H'eibhneas gan Chlainn Domhnaill "Per Mare - Per Terras" ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe Subject: MtMan-List: Bush --- Indian Land---OT ??? Date: 21 Oct 2002 07:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Thought there are some Native Americans on these list that might be interested. Sorry if it is not a propper listing. grn http://www.indianz.com/News/show.asp?ID=2002/09/26/trust > Bush proposal to take 'unclaimed' Indian land THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 2002 The Bush administration has drafted legislation to take "unclaimed" land belonging to individual Indian beneficiaries whom the Department of Interior cannot locate. In an effort to reduce the complex division of the trust land base and reduce management boondoggles, Secretary Gale Norton can claim "abandoned" Indian property under the bill. Although a key duty of a trustee is to keep current information about beneficiaries, the proposal would allow the government to skirt this requirement. For example, Individual Indian Money (IIM) account holders who don't respond to a public notice of unclaimed land would lose their rights.But Norton can forego an announcement if the department believes the land is worth less than $50, according to a provision in the draft. The bill places the burden on beneficiaries despite the fact that in some cases, the department doesn't have a full name, address or other key data for land owners. In quarterly reports to a federal court overseeing the debacle, officials admit they will never be able to locate every individual Indian. "It is unrealistic to assume that, at any given time, there would be zero account holders whose whereabouts are unknown given the volume of accounts under management," the most recent report stated. At least 63,000 American Indians and Alaska Natives who have an interest in 11 million acres of land would be affected by the proposal. Additional owners are also impacted due to the increased fractionation of the Indian estate. The proposal is still in the early stages of development but at a meeting today in Washington, D.C., department officials plan to float the idea as an amendment to a bill pending in Congress. Copies have already been distributed to tribal leaders and Indian advocates.Keith Harper, an attorney for the non-profit NativeAmerican Rights Fund,called the bill a disaster. His group represents 500,000 American Indians whose billion-dollar trust is at the heart of the largest class action in government history. "This is unconstitutional on its face," he said. "This is the most clear demonstration of bad faith yet." A department spokesperson could not comment on the draft. "I don't know anything about it," said Dan DuBray. He noted that land management issues will be addressed at the meeting of the trust reform task force. Fractionation results when Indian owners pass on property to their descendants. The land gets divided up among dozens and dozens of heirs, increasing the cost and management of IIM accounts. Efforts to manage the problem, however, have not been successful. Indian beneficiaries have gone all the way to the Supreme Court to protest the unconstitutional taking of their land. They secured two key victories that forced the government to scrap land laws. The issue is touchy because it reminds some of a destructive Indian policy.Assistant Secretary Neal McCaleb in January addressed the issue with tribal leaders and said he doesn't want to "terminate" Indian rights. "I used the t-word and I wish I hadn't," he said. "That's not what I'm advocating." Under a Bureau of Indian Affairs program to reduce fractionation, Indian owners can voluntarily have their land transferred to a tribe. But their IIM accounts are closed and, under the Bush administration's historical accounting plan, these owners are not a top priority. Indian leaders already voiced opposition to another trust reform bill designed to address the same issue. The legislation, S.1340, limits Indian allotments to tribal members, leading to fears of a reduction in trust holdings. Today's meeting will discuss possible amendments. Adding to the tension is a growing sentiment that the views of individual Indians are often overlooked in favor of tribal leaders who might not share the same priorities. In another court report, Larry Scrivner of the BIA's > Office of Trust Responsibilities, said "internal problems are being > created between the Indian tribe and the individual owners" > by land fractionation programs "and may be detrimental to the individual Indian owners." "I don't think anyone has asked the IIM > beneficiaries," said Paul Homan, a former Interior official who was tapped to reform the trust but left after his powers were limited by the Clinton administration. "The only people that are representing them today in the federal government seems to be Judge [Royce] Lamberth," he added,referring to the federal judge overseeing the IIM lawsuit. > Relevant Documents: Draft of Unclaimed Property Proposal | S.1340: A > bill to amend the Indian Land Consolidation Act Copyright ) Indianz.Com 2000-2002. ************* Pamela J. Kingfisher Indigenous Women's Network 13621 FM 2769 Austin, TX 78726 512-258-3880 office 512-288-6003 direct 512-258-1858 fax ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bush --- Indian Land---OT ??? Date: 21 Oct 2002 17:11:37 +0000 Bush is just following in the footsteps of two Texas heroes... Andy "By God" Jackson and Maribeau B. Lamar. Dios, Libertad y Tejas Scott McMahon S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." General Ethan Allen Hitchcock _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List:Gun control Date: 21 Oct 2002 15:16:47 EDT Thought you might like this Roadkill ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Gun Control Date: 21 Oct 2002 15:17:55 EDT --part1_187.fc2a0ca.2ae5ace3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -------Original Message------- This is a pretty cool comeback......... >> > >> > Regardless of how you feel about gun laws you gotta >> > love this one. >> > >> > Listening to the radio the other day, I heard one of >> > the all-time best >> > comeback lines in my life. >> > >> > Note: This is an exact >> > replication of >> > National >> > Public Radio (NPR) interview between a fem*le >> > broadcaster,and US Army >> > General Reinwald who was about to sponsor a B*y Scout >> > Troop visiting >> > his >> > military installation. >> > >> > FEMALE INTERVIEWER: So, General Reinwald, what things >> > are you going to >> > teach these young b*ys when they visit your base? >> > >> > GENERAL REINWALD: We're going to teach them climbing, >> > canoeing, >> > archery, >> > and shooting. >> > >> > FEM*LE INTERVIEWER: Shooting? That's a bit >> > irresponsible, isn't it? >> > >> > GENERAL REINWALD: I don't see why, they'll be properly >> > supervised on >> > the >> > rifle range. >> > >> > FEM*LE INTERVIEWER: Don't you admit that this is a >> > terribly dangerous >> > activity to be teaching children? >> > >> > GENERAL REINWALD: I don't see how. We will be teaching >> > them proper >> > rifle >> > discipline before they even touch a firearm. >> > >> > FEM*LE INTERVIEWER: But you're equipping them to >> > become violent >> > killers. >> > >> > GENERAL REINWALD: Well, you're equipped to be a >> > prostitute, but you're >> > not one, are you? >> > >> > The radio went silent and the interview ended. And all >> > I could think >> > was, >> > GO ARMY! Roadkill --part1_187.fc2a0ca.2ae5ace3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -------Original Message-------


This is a pretty cool comeback.........


>> >
>> > Regardless of how you feel about gun laws you gotta
>> > love this one.
>> >
>> > Listening to the radio the other day, I heard one of
>> > the all-time best
>> > comeback lines in my life.
>> >
>> > Note: This is an exact
>> > replication of
>> > National
>> > Public Radio (NPR) interview between a fem*le
>> > broadcaster,and US Army
>> > General Reinwald who was about to sponsor a B*y Scout
>> > Troop visiting
>> > his
>> > military installation.
>> >
>> > FEMALE INTERVIEWER: So, General Reinwald, what things
>> > are you going to
>> > teach these young b*ys when they visit your base?
>> >
>> > GENERAL REINWALD: We're going to teach them climbing,
>> > canoeing,
>> > archery,
>> > and shooting.
>> >
>> > FEM*LE INTERVIEWER: Shooting? That's a bit
>> > irresponsible, isn't it?
>> >
>> > GENERAL REINWALD: I don't see why, they'll be properly
>> > supervised on
>> > the
>> > rifle range.
>> >
>> > FEM*LE INTERVIEWER: Don't you admit that this is a
>> > terribly dangerous
>> > activity to be teaching children?
>> >
>> > GENERAL REINWALD: I don't see how. We will be teaching
>> > them proper
>> > rifle
>> > discipline before they even touch a firearm.
>> >
>> > FEM*LE INTERVIEWER: But you're equipping them to
>> > become violent
>> > killers.
>> >
>> > GENERAL REINWALD: Well, you're equipped to be a
>> > prostitute, but you're
>> > not one, are you?
>> >
>> > The radio went silent and the interview ended. And all
>> > I could think
>> > was,
>> > GO ARMY!


Roadkill --part1_187.fc2a0ca.2ae5ace3_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wahkahchim@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bush --- Indian Land---OT ??? Date: 21 Oct 2002 15:42:22 -0400 Whatis the Southwest Frontiers Mounted Ranging Company? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bush --- Indian Land---OT ??? Date: 21 Oct 2002 19:46:54 +0000 Whatis the Southwest Frontiers Mounted Ranging Company? We're a living history organization that portrays the Texas Rangers under Jack Hays' command during the 1840's(Republic of Texas and Mexican Wars). We mainly do period scouts on private land in South Texas along the Nueces strip and the South end of the Hill Country. Dios, Libertad y Tejas Scott McMahon S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." General Ethan Allen Hitchcock _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wahkahchim@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bush --- Indian Land---OT ??? Date: 21 Oct 2002 20:32:58 EDT 
Sounds like fun!

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From: Phyllis and Don Keas 
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need a bag mold
Date: 21 Oct 2002 21:07:19 -0600

I could use one in 54 caliber,  Don Keas

On Sunday, October 20, 2002 5:50 PM, Lanney Ratcliff  wrote:
>
>Ho the list
>My neighbor and AMM brother Steve Maples is looking for a bag
>mold in .648 to .650.=A0 Anybody got one for sale or trade?
>=A0
>Lanney Ratcliff
>lanneyratcliff@charter.net
>______________________________________________________________
>Aux Aliments du Pays
>


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From: "Wynn Ormond" 
Subject: MtMan-List: Ribbon Quote
Date: 23 Oct 2002 13:49:40 -0600

I blamed N Whitman for a quote when I asked about ribbon last week.  it was
actually from the German Doctor.  Here it is if anybody is interested.
WY

F A Wislizenas Journey to the Rocky Mountains 1939

Pg 22

The next morning (June 14th), we left camp in good humor, for the crotchety
master of human crotchets, I mean the weather, smiled on us; and the
vicinity of Fort Laramie, but sixteen miles distant, promised us a speedy
meeting with human beings. Before we reached the fort, we encountered the
first "pale faces" we had seen since our departure from Missouri. They were
French Canadians, clad half Indian fashion in leather, and scurrying along
on their ponies, bedight with bells and gay ribbons, as if intent to storm
some battery. Old acquaintances greeted each other, question piled on
question; and each briefly told, in Canadian patois, the adventures he had
been through. Meanwhile we came in view of the fort.





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From: "Frank Fusco" 
Subject: MtMan-List: bag moulds
Date: 23 Oct 2002 15:41:14 -0500

Try: http://www.logcabinshop.com/catalog/catmain.html

Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, AR
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/


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From: "scott mcmahon" 
Subject: MtMan-List: "paper" rolling papers in theSouthwest
Date: 25 Oct 2002 15:06:50 +0000

List,
Does anyone out there have any information regarding "paper" rolling papers 
in use during the 1840's? I could swear I've seen it in something dealing 
with Gregg or maybe traders in the Mexican War. Any suggestions on where to 
look? I'm scanning Commerce of the Prairies and Adventures in the Santa Fe 
Trade right now- have looked through Garrard(mentions corn husks) and will 
check Glasgow Bros. tonight. Thanks in advance for any help!

	Dios, Libertad y Tejas
	Scott McMahon
	S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co.

	"Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any 
sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one 
or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a 
rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them."
	General Ethan Allen Hitchcock




_________________________________________________________________
Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! 
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp


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From: "scott mcmahon" 
Subject: MtMan-List: paper rolling papers...
Date: 25 Oct 2002 18:35:08 +0000

Never mind, I found it. It was in a footnote in Commerce of the Prairies(pg. 
80 of the Bobbs-Merril Company Inc. copyrighted 1970... Gregg says both 
paper and husks were used in New Mexico but papers were less common by far. 
this was of course in 1844- falls outside of most rendezvous club time spans 
but it's great for those doing Santa Fe trade!

	Dios, Libertad y Tejas
	Scott McMahon
	S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co.

	"Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any 
sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one 
or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a 
rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them."
	General Ethan Allen Hitchcock




_________________________________________________________________
Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN! 
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From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: mocc' spur
Date: 25 Oct 2002 22:15:55 EDT


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does anyone where one can get some of these spurs

thanks for your help
frank sablan 




 

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does anyone where one can get some of these spurs



thanks for your help

frank sablan 











 

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From: "scott mcmahon" 
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mocc' spur
Date: 26 Oct 2002 03:09:55 +0000

Frank,
Bob Schmidt once told me a fellow by the name of Roman Gillitzer made 
moccasin spurs but I don't have a contact for him... sorry!
Scott McMahon

_________________________________________________________________
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From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mocc' spur
Date: 25 Oct 2002 23:27:14 EDT


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Scott,
I have found the following address for Roman Gillitzer if it is the same one. 
 But I am willing to bet it is , since the snail mail addy is in Montana same 
as Schmidt


RAG Silver
Roman Gillitzer
2113 Patricia Lane
Billings, MT 59102
(406) 656-4165


    thanks for the tip

frank sablan
midland,texas

 

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Scott,

I have found the following address for Roman Gillitzer if it is the same one.  But I am willing to bet it is , since the snail mail addy is in Montana same as Schmidt





RAG Silver

Roman Gillitzer

2113 Patricia Lane

Billings, MT 59102

(406) 656-4165





    thanks for the tip



frank sablan

midland,texas



 

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From: Hawkengun@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: please help with my pioneer project
Date: 28 Oct 2002 21:32:33 EST


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My name is Caleb Sweet. I am in the third grade in Palmer Lake Colorado. I am 
studying pioneers. I need at least three recipes for pioneer food.  The 
recipes need to be from the Santa Fe Trail.  I need to know the primary 
sources that the recipes come from.  My dad is a historian but he says I have 
to do it myself. 


Sincerely,

Caleb Sweet

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My name is Caleb Sweet. I am in the third grade in Palmer Lake Colorado. I am studying pioneers. I need at least three recipes for pioneer food.  The recipes need to be from the Santa Fe Trail.  I need to know the primary sources that the recipes come from.  My dad is a historian but he says I have to do it myself. 





Sincerely,



Caleb Sweet


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From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: please help with my pioneer project
Date: 28 Oct 2002 22:21:52 EST


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Caleb, Do you have a time period you must stay within? I have lots of 
receipts from the mid-to-late 1800's...... but they are not within the 
Fur-Trade Period, ending about 1840. Is that important?       Barney 

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Caleb, Do you have a time period you must stay within? I have lots of receipts from the mid-to-late 1800's...... but they are not within the Fur-Trade Period, ending about 1840. Is that important?       Barney 

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From: MarkLoader@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: please help with my pioneer project
Date: 28 Oct 2002 22:39:08 EST

Caleb
Eating up the Santa Fe Trail  is a book written by Sam'l P. Arnold, the owner 
of the Fort Resturant west of Denver. It has many good recipes and stories of 
the Santa Fe Trail. 
Hope this helps
Mark

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From: Michael Branson 
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: please help with my pioneer project
Date: 28 Oct 2002 19:44:48 -0800 (PST)

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I will give you one recipe source and the name of the dish. But you have to look up the source and find out the inredients yourself. Look up a book by Susan Shelby McGoffin, called: Down The Sante Fe Trail And Into Mexico. The name of the dish is :
Posole. You can also find a recipe for this dish and others in a book by Sam Arnold: Eating Up The Sante Fe Trail. Good luck. Michael Branson
 Hawkengun@aol.com wrote:My name is Caleb Sweet. I am in the third grade in Palmer Lake Colorado. I am studying pioneers. I need at least three recipes for pioneer food.  The recipes need to be from the Santa Fe Trail.  I need to know the primary sources that the recipes come from.  My dad is a historian but he says I have to do it myself. 


Sincerely,

Caleb Sweet



Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
--0-885998362-1035863088=:91530
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii


I will give you one recipe source and the name of the dish. But you have to look up the source and find out the inredients yourself. Look up a book by Susan Shelby McGoffin, called: Down The Sante Fe Trail And Into Mexico. The name of the dish is :

Posole. You can also find a recipe for this dish and others in a book by Sam Arnold: Eating Up The Sante Fe Trail. Good luck. Michael Branson

 Hawkengun@aol.com wrote:

My name is Caleb Sweet. I am in the third grade in Palmer Lake Colorado. I am studying pioneers. I need at least three recipes for pioneer food.  The recipes need to be from the Santa Fe Trail.  I need to know the primary sources that the recipes come from.  My dad is a historian but he says I have to do it myself. 


Sincerely,

Caleb Sweet

Do you Yahoo!?

HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
--0-885998362-1035863088=:91530--

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From: 
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: please help with my pioneer project
Date: 28 Oct 2002 20:27:37 -0800


Hi Caleb,
   This is Mike Moore, I'm a staff writer for On The Trail magazine and in
this last Issue I did a article on my favorite foods (in the fur trade). If
you need a copy of it, let me know and I'll send it to you. A good book that
might help out (believe it or not) is a American Girl book- "Josephina's Cook
Book", might be real good for your class. Six dollars at any good book store.
It was recipes and directions for food found in 1824 Mexico. So, would fit in
nicely for the Santa Fe Trail. A good researched book. If you need them real
soon, let me know and I can help on books titles and page numbers (if you
don't let your dad to know!)
              mike.

                 
On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:32:33 EST Hawkengun@aol.com wrote:

> My name is Caleb Sweet. I am in the third grade
> in Palmer Lake Colorado. I am studying
> pioneers. I need at least three recipes for
> pioneer food.  The recipes need to be from
> the Santa Fe Trail.  I need to know the
> primary sources that the recipes come
> from.  My dad is a historian but he says I
> have to do it myself. 
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Caleb Sweet


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Randal Bublitz" 
Subject: FW: RE: MtMan-List: please help with my pioneer project
Date: 28 Oct 2002 21:30:45 -0800





 




----- Original Message ----- 




Sent: 10/28/02 7:47:56 PM 


Subject: RE: MtMan-List: please help with my pioneer project





Caleb, check out this web site.....   http://waltonfeed.com/old/mama/index.html  Also there is a book available called :


"Eating up the Santa Fe Trail"  by Sam'l P. Arnold  ISBN: 0-87081-187-8    How much time do have before your project is due?   I have this book, but don't want to be doing your homework for you.  If you are in a big hurry, and your Dad says it's ok, I could type out some recipes for you.    hardtack


 


----- Original Message ----- 




From: 



Sent: 10/28/02 1:32:33 PM 


Subject: MtMan-List: please help with my pioneer project



My name is Caleb Sweet. I am in the third grade in Palmer Lake Colorado. I am studying pioneers. I need at least three recipes for pioneer food.  The recipes need to be from the Santa Fe Trail.  I need to know the primary sources that the recipes come from.  My dad is a historian but he says I have to do it myself. 


Sincerely,

Caleb Sweet




 


--- Randal Bublitz



we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,


we are Borrowing it from our Children


 




 


--- Randal Bublitz



we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,


we are Borrowing it from our Children


 



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From: "Wynn Ormond" 
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: please help with my pioneer project
Date: 29 Oct 2002 12:58:33 -0700




> My name is Caleb Sweet. I am in the third grade in Palmer Lake Colorado. I
am
> studying pioneers. I need at least three recipes for pioneer food.  The
> recipes need to be from the Santa Fe Trail.  I need to know the primary
> sources that the recipes come from.  My dad is a historian but he says I
have
> to do it myself.
>

Dear Caleb

Can you tell your Dad he is a real good example to you and to me.

Wynn Ormond


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From: Hawkengun@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: please help with my pioneer project
Date: 30 Oct 2002 12:09:45 EST


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Gentlemen,

Thanks for helping my boy out with his project. He'll be back here with me on 
Sat. night and he'll be back to work on this project soon. I'm going to make 
him write out the recipes w/ quill and India ink, then he'll have to cook up 
the grub for his class using period gear, etc.

Again, thanks for the help guys, and I'll have Caleb get back on here and 
thank you all personally this weekend.

Hope everybody has had a good hunting season so far. I'm headed out for the 
first time this season on Sat.

Adios,

Caleb's dad
(John R. Sweet)

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Gentlemen,



Thanks for helping my boy out with his project. He'll be back here with me on Sat. night and he'll be back to work on this project soon. I'm going to make him write out the recipes w/ quill and India ink, then he'll have to cook up the grub for his class using period gear, etc.



Again, thanks for the help guys, and I'll have Caleb get back on here and thank you all personally this weekend.



Hope everybody has had a good hunting season so far. I'm headed out for the first time this season on Sat.



Adios,



Caleb's dad

(John R. Sweet)

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From: "Wynn Ormond" 
Subject: e: MtMan-List: please help with my pioneer project
Date: 31 Oct 2002 08:22:47 -0700

> Caleb's dad
> (John R. Sweet)
wrote in part

> Thanks for helping my boy out with his project. He'll be back here with me
on
> Sat. night and he'll be back to work on this project soon. I'm going to
make
> him write out the recipes w/ quill and India ink, then he'll have to cook
up
> the grub for his class using period gear, etc.
>

John please check your email Friday night or Saturday morning I will try to
get some time to write up another little project that will yield your son a
recipe that has made me welcome in many camps and is period correct.  It
will help teach him more valuable research skills.

Also I am going to have to get in trouble for being nit picky here but in
your above post you used the wrong words.  You said you were going to "make"
him and he would "have to" do these things.  I beg to differ.  It is an
honor to be able to do this sort of thing and most kids do not have the
resources or the teacher who can make it happen.  You will "let" him  and
"allow" him to do those kinds of privilages.

Wynn Ormond





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From: "Wynn Ormond" 
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: please help with my pioneer project
Date: 31 Oct 2002 08:18:04 -0700

> Caleb's dad
> (John R. Sweet)
wrote in part

> Thanks for helping my boy out with his project. He'll be back here with me
on
> Sat. night and he'll be back to work on this project soon. I'm going to
make
> him write out the recipes w/ quill and India ink, then he'll have to cook
up
> the grub for his class using period gear, etc.
>

John please check your email Friday night or Saturday morning I will try to
get some time to write up another little project that will yield your son a
recipe that has made me welcome in many camps and is period correct.  It
will help teach him more valuable research skills.

Also I am going to have to get in trouble for being nit picky here but in
your above post you used the wrong words.  You said you were going to "make"
him and he would "have to" do these things.  I beg to differ.  It is an
honor to be able to do this sort of thing and most kids do not have the
resources or the teacher who can make it happen.  You will "let" him  and
"allow" him to do those kinds of privilages.

Wynn Ormond


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From: "Thomas Petersen" 
Subject: MtMan-List: Wow!
Date: 31 Oct 2002 07:49:28 -0800

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Folks

I am a new reader of the Mountain Man List serv. I cannot believe the
incredible response to a 12 year old asking for information. It would be so
easy to ignore the request, but instead so many took the time and the
thoughts to help. I take my hat off to each of you for a job well done. I am
not as experienced and honed as most of you, but I only hope than when I
have something I am able to contribute, that I can meet the standard set in
the past 24 hours.



Skol!


Thomas R Petersen
Bill Hart District Chair and WLACC High Adventure Team Chair

Phone: (661) 255-2864 * Fax (661) 254-0604 * E-Mail:
BSAHighAdventure@yahoo.com or Thomas@piu.org
Bill Hart District Website:              http://billhart.bsa-la.org/

High Adventure Team Website:      http://hat.bsa-la.org/





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Folks



 



I am a new reader of the Mountain Man List serv. I cannot believe =
the
incredible response to a 12 year old asking for information. It would be =
so
easy to ignore the request, but instead so many took the time and the =
thoughts
to help. I take my hat off to each of you for a job well done. I am not =
as
experienced and honed as most of you, but I only hope than when I have
something I am able to contribute, that I can meet the standard set in =
the past
24 hours.



 



 



 



Skol!



 



 



Thomas R
Petersen



Bill =
Hart
District Chair and WLACC High Adventure Team Chair 



 



Phone: (661) 255-2864 * Fax (661) =
254-0604 *
E-Mail: BSAHighAdventure@yahoo.com or Thomas@piu.org



Bill Hart District Website:           &n=
bsp; 
http://billhart.bsa-la.org/



High Adventure Team Website:      http://hat.bsa-la.org/



 



 



 









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From: TrapRJoe@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wood Sturups
Date: 31 Oct 2002 10:56:51 EST


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A while back someone was looking for wood sturups.  I have seen a pain in a 
junk store where I live.  If someone is interested I will take a picture and 
get back to you off the list.  Let me know.

                                         TrapRJoe

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A while back someone was looking for wood sturups.  I have seen a pain in a junk store where I live.  If someone is interested I will take a picture and get back to you off the list.  Let me know.



                                         TrapRJoe

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From: "scott mcmahon" 
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wood Sturups
Date: 31 Oct 2002 16:04:25 +0000

I'd be interested if they're solid wood and not the bent wood style, have a 
pair of those already. Thanks for the heads up!

	Dios, Libertad y Tejas
	Scott McMahon
	S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co.

	"Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any 
sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one 
or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a 
rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them."
	General Ethan Allen Hitchcock


_________________________________________________________________
Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! 
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From: "Frank Fusco" 
Subject: MtMan-List: Caleb's dad
Date: 31 Oct 2002 11:00:44 -0600

    I believe the use of the word "make" for encouraging Caleb to do a
project was just an unfortunate choice.
    Like many of us I tried to be a good parent and see a lot to admire in
John Sweet's attention to his son's learning experience.
    Way to go John and Caleb.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, AR
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/


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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" 
Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:20:08 -0600
Date: 31 Oct 2002 22:20:32 -0700

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Lanney Ratcliff
lanneyratcliff@charter.net
______________________________________________________________
Aux Aliments du Pays

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Lanney Ratcliff
lanneyratcliff@charter.net=

______________________________________________________________
Aux=
=20
Aliments du Pays


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