Subject: MtMan-List: email address request Date: 01 Nov 2002 06:15:50 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C2816E.201DBA40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello List: Could someone please send me Rex Allen=20 Norman's email address, I have accidently deleted the one I had. Please send off list.....Thank you in advance...Jim kodiak@ptd.net ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C2816E.201DBA40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello List: Could someone please send = me Rex Allen=20

Norman's email address, I have = accidently deleted=20 the one

I had. Please send off = list.....Thank you in=20 advance...Jim

kodiak@ptd.net

------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C2816E.201DBA40-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: please help with my pioneer project Date: 01 Nov 2002 13:28:47 -0700 > > My name is Caleb Sweet. I am in the third grade in Palmer Lake Colorado. I > am > > studying pioneers. I need at least three recipes for pioneer food. The > > recipes need to be from the Santa Fe Trail. I need to know the primary > > sources that the recipes come from. My dad is a historian but he says I > have > > to do it myself. Calab Your Dad has put you on a path of discovery. This one applies to history but it can get you knowledge on all kinds of information legal or illegal, good or bad. So far you have been encouraged to ask somebody who may know something. In this case it was a group on the internet who live all over the world and you never know what they will know or tell you. They have sent you to secondary source books which are a good source of information. I want to give you another avenue to explore. Go to Dean's site at: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm.html From there go into his search engine and type French dump* This will give you the original source for a recipe for French dumplings. They are not specific to Santa Fe but they may have found there way there. You will have to do a little creative imagining to make the recipe work but the ones I have made have all been good. And yes you can deep fry in tin cookware just fine. Now I happen to know just what to search for to get you this recipe but from there you have to work harder. Maybe type in kamas or coffee or cooking. This is harder and slower to get information from than getting it from secondary sources but there is some rewards in finding your information in an original source. Good hunting and good luck on preparing and serving your findings. Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Primitive Fishing Gear Date: 01 Nov 2002 21:31:46 -0700 (MST) Dear List, I need to contact Braddock's Trace Mercantile about buying some primitve fishing gear does anyone have his number or anyone else's number who sells horse hair lines and period correct fishing gear? Thank you very much, Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Primitive Fishing Gear Date: 01 Nov 2002 20:53:28 -0800 Beaverboy, check out.... http://www.clarkandsons.com/ Paul Jones has fishing stuff.... hardtack Randal Bublitz rjbublitz@earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 11/1/02 8:31:46 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Primitive Fishing Gear > > Dear List, > I need to contact Braddock's Trace Mercantile about buying some > primitve fishing gear does anyone have his number or anyone else's number > who sells horse hair lines and period correct fishing gear? > Thank you very much, > Beaverboy > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Primitive Fishing Gear Date: 01 Nov 2002 21:51:28 -0700 (MST) Thank you sir, that's just what I needed. Sincerely, BB > Beaverboy, check out.... http://www.clarkandsons.com/ Paul Jones > has fishing stuff.... hardtack > > Randal Bublitz > rjbublitz@earthlink.net > Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > > >> [Original Message] >> From: >> To: >> Date: 11/1/02 8:31:46 PM >> Subject: MtMan-List: Primitive Fishing Gear >> >> Dear List, >> I need to contact Braddock's Trace Mercantile about buying some >> primitve fishing gear does anyone have his number or anyone else's >> number who sells horse hair lines and period correct fishing gear? >> Thank you very much, >> Beaverboy >> >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Primitive Fishing Gear Date: 01 Nov 2002 22:51:21 -0600 I think you will find that Braddock Trace went under and Clark & Sons Mercantile is now the purveyor of the top quality primitive fishing gear you want. The store keeper is the same. Contact them here: http://www.clarkandsons.com/ Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 10:31 PM > Dear List, > I need to contact Braddock's Trace Mercantile about buying some > primitve fishing gear does anyone have his number or anyone else's number > who sells horse hair lines and period correct fishing gear? > Thank you very much, > Beaverboy > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Angela Gottfred" Subject: MtMan-List: Dating HBC point blankets Date: 02 Nov 2002 09:44:10 -0700 It can really pay to listen to CBC Radio sometimes. This morning, I caught an interview with Harold Tichenor, author of a new book, _ The blanket : an illustrated history of the Hudson's Bay blanket_. Thichenor says this book discusses the history of the HBC point blanket, all the way from the origin of the woven "points" in the 1500's, to how to date an antique blanket. (He said it is easiest to date blankets produced since 1890, because of the labels, but he also provides some rough ideas on how to date pre-1890 blankets.) Tichenor's research was spurred by the surprisingly high price of second-hand blankets, which he found was fuelled by reeanactors and collectors. When the HBC found out about his research at the HBC Archives (http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/hbca/about/blankets.html), they commissioned the book, since they often get questions about dating blankets. (I've gotten my share of these questions too.) It sounds like this book is the authoritative guide many folks have been looking for. The book is supposed to be on sale at most Bay stores, but you can also order it over the phone or online. Go to www.hbc.com, and then paste the product number 25624669 into the search box on the top left side of the webpage. (Searching on Tichenor will also work, but don't bother trying to search on "blanket" or "book".) At present, this book is *not* available online from Chapters, Indigo, Amazon.ca, or Amazon.com. I haven't seen the book yet myself, but I'll try to get a copy in the next week or so. Your very humble & most obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Zeigler" Subject: MtMan-List: Rex Allen Norman Date: 02 Nov 2002 15:37:15 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01C28285.B882DB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello List: Could someone please send me Rex Allen=20 Norman's email address, I have accidently deleted the one I had. Please send off list.....Thank you in advance...Jim kodiak@ptd.net ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01C28285.B882DB40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello List: Could someone please send = me Rex=20 Allen

Norman's email address, I have = accidently deleted=20 the one

I had. Please send off = list.....Thank you=20 in advance...Jim

kodiak@ptd.net
------=_NextPart_000_007B_01C28285.B882DB40-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Klesinger" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Rex Allen Norman Date: 02 Nov 2002 15:36:05 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C28285.8E955DD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TRY Rex Norman [rjnorman@prairieweb.com] -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Jim Zeigler Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 1:37 PM Hello List: Could someone please send me Rex Allen Norman's email address, I have accidently deleted the one I had. Please send off list.....Thank you in advance...Jim kodiak@ptd.net ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C28285.8E955DD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

TR= Y

Re= x Norman [rjnorman@prairieweb.com]

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com = [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Jim Zeigler
Sent: Saturday, November = 02, 2002 1:37 PM
To: = hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Rex = Allen Norman

Hello List: Could someone please send me Rex Allen
Norman's email address, I have accidently deleted the one
I had. Please send off list.....Thank you in = advance...Jim

kodiak@ptd.net

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C28285.8E955DD0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dating HBC point blankets Date: 02 Nov 2002 18:09:58 -0700 Angela I am not sure who "HBC point blankets" is but I'll date her if she aint to big or mean. ;) Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: bows Date: 02 Nov 2002 18:16:25 -0700 Does anyone know a source to buy primitive bows for kids? Price is always a concideration. Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bows Date: 02 Nov 2002 18:54:36 -0700 Wynn, Watch Ebay. Search on "Wood Bows" or "Wooden Bows" etc. Course you'll have to out bid me! Todd On Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:16:25 -0700 "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" writes: > Does anyone know a source to buy primitive bows for kids? Price is > always a > concideration. > > Wynn Ormond > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Ice and the ancient art of rat spearing Date: 02 Nov 2002 21:52:38 -0700 (MST) Dear List, So much for fall in the Rockies! We had a beautiful fall with some wonderful valleys full of yellows and reds but the leaves are all gone now and there is snow on the ground. It even got down to -15 below at my house Wednesday night breaking a record low. The rivers are all iced over though not thick ice. Its very aggravating when the rivers ice over the day before trapping season opens! The Missouri River is open as usual but lots of shelf ice and slush flowing down it. Its suppose to warm up by mid week so maybe we can get a little open water to catch some beaver and otter in. When Mother Nature gives you lemons, we make lemonade! My friend Vince and I decided to make use of the bitter cold to trap some rats under the ice. We got a late start today but were able to get about 20 traps set. I�ll have to say I was not too thrilled with the sets however. None seem to be real hot locations. The dens were either frozen in or we couldn�t locate the runs. Vince never trapped rats under the ice so it was fun for him. He did break through the ice, twice! The first time he went in up just past his hip boots but he shot out of there like a ballistic missile. His wool britches saved the day and we continued trapping. The second time he went in up to his waist and this time he was soaked. He was scrambling around like a cat getting a bath. I just yelled at him to grab the ax before it went under. So much for having fun. Vince mentioned that he wished he had chest high waders. I told him, �Then you go in up to your neck the way your luck is running!� Vince said it was his fault for not being more watchful of the ice conditions. The smelly marsh water was ICE COLD. The ice was up two 3� inches in spots but thinner in other spots as Vince can tell you. Perfect ice almost, thick enough to hold you yet not so thick as to make chopping through it any work at all. We watched the sun set over the front range of the Rockies while chopping holes for traps. We spied a big fat rat sitting on the edge of the ice by an open lead. Two flocks of Swans flew over making their quiet calls. They were low enough to hear the swish of their wings. The ice began to talk as the sun set and the temperature started dropping. The ice is like a huge living thing that moves and groans and talks. I have a lot of respect for it, especially when I'm on it. I�ll really be surprised if we have more than a few rats as I just was not thrilled with many of our sets. Whenever I trap rats under the ice I think about the ancient art of rat spearing. This was a very popular way of getting rats in the early days of the fur trade on up into the 1930�s. Rat spears were a popular trade item. The hunt took place as thus. The hunter walked or skated on the ice and approached the rat dens or pushups from the southern side as this was the least frozen side. He must approach the last ten or fifteen feet fairly quietly and softly as to not alarm the rats within by sounds or heavy vibrations on the ice. When in range, the long steel rat spear was thrust into the side of the den about where the hunter assumed the animals would be huddled. After the thrust he would feel the shaft for movement which would indicate an impaled rat or two. If he thought he speared one (or several) he would tear out a hole in the den to remove his catch and kill it. The hunter would also keep an eye on the ice for any rats that happen to swim underfoot. A quick swing of the ax and hard thump on the ice above the rat would sometimes temporarily stun the rodent long enough for the hunter to chop him free of the ice and dispatch it by swinging it by the tail and hitting it on the ice. Great care must be taken when messing around with wounded muskrats. I knew a kid who shot one once and picked the still live animal up by its tail. The rat gave the boy a arm full of bites before he could let it go. We may have some pelts for the stretchers tomorrow. I never count my rats before I catch them though. -15 below in October! I�m not liking the looks of this winter so far! BB ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Les Chaffin Subject: MtMan-List: Socks Date: 02 Nov 2002 23:25:58 -0700 I am making a pair of new mocs and was wondering if the trappers wore sock? I have not read anything that has said. What do you think? Les Chaffin Green River, Wy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks Date: 03 Nov 2002 07:22:27 -0600 Les The short answer to your question is Yes. Click here for documentation of the sale of at least one pair of socks to Samuel Nott at Ft Hall http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/RuslPaper.html I have seen other references to socks in first person accounts (journals and trade goods inventories) but they don't seem to have been sold in quantities large enough to suggest their universal use. References to "drawers" abound but socks are mentioned only sporadically which leads me to conclude that while some mountaineers bought socks many others either used nothing on their mocassined feet or they made use of other materials. Perhaps scraps of fabric or pelts were more often used for socks....especially during the coldest months. I am sure there are some socks experts who might give you better information. I can only point you to the occasional mention of socks and let education guessing take over from there. Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 12:25 AM > I am making a pair of new mocs and was wondering if the trappers wore > sock? I have not read anything that has said. What do you think? > > Les Chaffin > Green River, Wy > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks Date: 03 Nov 2002 07:38:39 -0600 Whoops!!! Of course in the last line "and let education guessing take over from there." I meant to say :"...educated guessing....." LR > Les > The short answer to your question is Yes. Click here for documentation of > the sale of at least one pair of socks to Samuel Nott at Ft Hall > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/RuslPaper.html I have seen other > references to socks in first person accounts (journals and trade goods > inventories) but they don't seem to have been sold in quantities large > enough to suggest their universal use. References to "drawers" abound but > socks are mentioned only sporadically which leads me to conclude that while > some mountaineers bought socks many others either used nothing on their > mocassined feet or they made use of other materials. Perhaps scraps of > fabric or pelts were more often used for socks....especially during the > coldest months. I am sure there are some socks experts who might give you > better information. I can only point you to the occasional mention of socks > and let education guessing take over from there. > > Lanney Ratcliff > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Les Chaffin" > To: "Mountain Man List" > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 12:25 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: Socks > > > > I am making a pair of new mocs and was wondering if the trappers wore > > sock? I have not read anything that has said. What do you think? > > > > Les Chaffin > > Green River, Wy > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ikon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks Date: 03 Nov 2002 08:56:42 -0800 I found myself standing knee deep in a cold North Ga. stream yesterday deer hunting and fishing for trout. After the first half hour I relized why wool wrappings / socks were used by trappers under mocs. Luckily, I had on a pair of mucks with a wool insert and a pair of wool socks. My feet were toasty warm, wet, but warm. Even though I was wet to my knees I was very comfortable. Keep the feet warm and you'll be warm. Could not get the trout to bite, and I had earlier missed a fat doe. I was shooting a 308, kicking myself in the butt as I know the GPR and would not have missed with it. The 308 is deep in the closet now. After the cold water experiance, I will be making a pair of mocs with wool inserts. Frank ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 10:25 PM > I am making a pair of new mocs and was wondering if the trappers wore > sock? I have not read anything that has said. What do you think? > > Les Chaffin > Green River, Wy > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee Newbill" Subject: MtMan-List: Winter and the End of Fall Date: 03 Nov 2002 06:32:20 -0800 Can't say I've been out bothering the furbearers, but it's been bitter cold her in North Idaho with temps down in the single digits. We butchered the hogs on Friday... while my friend Matt and I were busy with the pigs, I watched my big saddle horse skate down a frozen hillside to land in a heap on the bottom. Naturally, it twernt his fault, so he got up and bit one of the pigs to make up for it. Y'all have a great week Regards Lee Newbill of North Idaho AMM# 1821 http://www.hogheavenmuzzleloaders.com http://users.potlatch.com/bluethistle http://www.mountaintoptradingco.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter and the End of Fall Date: 03 Nov 2002 09:33:07 -0600 Lee Newbill wrote: Naturally, it twernt his fault, so he got up and bit one of the pigs to make up for it. Just was NOT a good day to be a pig in northern Idaho. Too bad you don't have that on video. Folks talk about how smart hogs are....smarter than horses or dogs some say...but I have my doubts. Next time you bite into a piece of bacon remember that the hog was sure he had a future. Now how smart was that? It has cooled off a little in north central Texas but not like your single digits. We only got down to about 45 last night but we have had nearly a month of constant rain/drizzle/mist. The mildew is starting to get moldy. Lanney Ratcliff ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hikingonthru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Moccasin with wool insert source. Date: 03 Nov 2002 10:56:25 -0500 Frank and others I am the sort of fellow who like to make his own mocs and such...just feels more PC that way. But I recently had need of a new pair and needed them quick. Someone told me about 2bears (they have a website..think it is twobears.com) as a source of mocs. I was able to get Ernie to send me a pair of moccasins made of moose (dark) that had a double sole and a wool coating liner and for about $42 shipped. All I had to do was resew the heal seam to fit my foot specifically and trim the pucker seam a tad more. These have held up REALLY well, look really good (esp after I greased them with my bear grease-ochre mix) and you cannot buy the leather and wool for that price hardly!!! I highly reccomend this as a source of wool-lined mocs. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Moccasin with wool insert source. Date: 03 Nov 2002 08:37:18 -0800 I can second that, I bought a pair of mocs from this fellow. Same thing-moose with double layer on bottom and wool blanket lining sewn up all together. $40 & shipping. Very fast and friendly service to boot. hardtack Randal Bublitz rjbublitz@earthlink.net Freedom is Not Free > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 11/3/02 7:56:25 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: Moccasin with wool insert source. > > Frank and others > > I am the sort of fellow who like to make his own mocs and such...just feels more PC that way. But I recently had need of a new pair and needed them quick. > > Someone told me about 2bears (they have a website..think it is twobears.com) as a source of mocs. I was able to get Ernie to send me a pair of moccasins made of moose (dark) that had a double sole and a wool coating liner and for about $42 shipped. All I had to do was resew the heal seam to fit my foot specifically and trim the pucker seam a tad more. These have held up REALLY well, look really good (esp after I greased them with my bear grease-ochre mix) and you cannot buy the leather and wool for that price hardly!!! > > I highly reccomend this as a source of wool-lined mocs. > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks Date: 03 Nov 2002 12:38:17 EST --part1_198.10029e31.2af6b909_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I cant remember what the source was but I too have read accounts of socks, and I beleive they also referred them as stockings (again going from my memory). Now the next is a shameless plug. I will have available hand knitted socks, a English lady is teaching my mother how to make them. I currently have two pair,(unfortunately they are made from wool from a craft store part acrylic and part wool) if these sell I have will have a source of 100% wool in the near future. Also available handknitted touque's, liberty, voyager caps (whatever you prefer to call them) I should have jpegs available soon to anyone interested. Frank Sablan Midland,Texas --part1_198.10029e31.2af6b909_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I cant remember what the source was but I too have read accounts of socks, and I beleive they also referred them as stockings (again going from my memory). Now the next is a shameless plug. I will have available hand knitted socks, a English lady is teaching my mother how to make them. I currently have two pair,(unfortunately they are made from wool from a craft store part acrylic and part wool) if these sell I have will have a source of 100% wool in the near future. Also available handknitted touque's, liberty, voyager caps (whatever you prefer to call them) I should have jpegs available soon to anyone interested.

Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas --part1_198.10029e31.2af6b909_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ice and the ancient art of rat spearing Date: 03 Nov 2002 14:01:16 -0700 > It even got down to -15 below at my > house Wednesday night breaking a record low. The rivers are all iced over > though not thick ice. Its very aggravating when the rivers ice over the > day before trapping season opens! The Missouri River is open as usual but > lots of shelf ice and slush flowing down it. Its suppose to warm up by mid > week so maybe we can get a little open water to catch some beaver and > otter in. We are not the first to complain about the weather or the poor boots on our feet. PS Ogden wrote: Thursday, (Feb) 16th. Cold last night; very severe; rain froze; Our prospects gloomy; we must continue to starve; now all are reduced to skin and bones; more beggarly looking beings I defy the world to produce. Still I have no cause to complain of the men; day after day they labor in quest of food and beaver without a shoe to their feet; the frozen ground is hardly comfortable; but it is an evil without remedy. The Snake Indians paid us a visit empty handed; they, too, complain of starvation. Were our horses in good condition, in 10 days we could make the buffalo ground. In their present weak state we cannot go in less than 25; 1 small deer and not one beaver. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Powell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks Date: 03 Nov 2002 15:28:28 -0700 ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2834D.A86C8580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello the list, There are those of you that might recall that Lewis gave Clark a pair of = socks for Christmas while they were at Fort Clatsop. (see L&C journals) Later, Mike Powell Henry's Fork on the Snake =20 Upper Snake River Plains Country =20 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:40 AM I cant remember what the source was but I too have read accounts of socks= , and I beleive they also referred them as stockings (again going from my= memory). Now the next is a shameless plug. I will have available hand = knitted socks, a English lady is teaching my mother how to make them. I = currently have two pair,(unfortunately they are made from wool from a cra= ft store part acrylic and part wool) if these sell I have will have a sou= rce of 100% wool in the near future. Also available handknitted touque's= , liberty, voyager caps (whatever you prefer to call them) I should have= jpegs available soon to anyone interested. Frank Sablan Midland,Texas Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http:/= /explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2834D.A86C8580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello the list= ,

There are those of you that might recall that Lewis gave Cla= rk a pair of socks for Christmas while they were at Fort Clatsop.
<= DIV>(see L&C journals)
Later,

Mike Powell
=
Henry's Fork on the Snake

Upper Snake River P= lains Country

-= ---- Original Message -----

From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:40 AM
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.= com

Subject: Re: MtMan-List:= Socks

I cant remember what the sour= ce was but I too have read accounts of socks, and I beleive they also ref= erred them as stockings (again going from my memory). Now the next = is a shameless plug. I will have available hand knitted socks, a En= glish lady is teaching my mother how to make them. I currently have= two pair,(unfortunately they are made from wool from a craft store part = acrylic and part wool) if these sell I have will have a source of 100% wo= ol in the near future. Also available handknitted touque's, liberty= , voyager caps (whatever you prefer to call them) I should have jpe= gs available soon to anyone interested.

Frank Sablan
Midland,Te= xas

Get more= from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2834D.A86C8580-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks Date: 03 Nov 2002 17:59:51 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C28362.CE600C70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I bet those socks weren't purple! Lanney ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Michael Powell=20 To: History List=20 Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:28 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks Hello the list, There are those of you that might recall that Lewis gave Clark a pair = of socks for Christmas while they were at Fort Clatsop. (see L&C journals) Later, Mike Powell Henry's Fork on the Snake=20 Upper Snake River Plains Country ----- Original Message ----- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:40 AM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks I cant remember what the source was but I too have read accounts of = socks, and I beleive they also referred them as stockings (again going = from my memory). Now the next is a shameless plug. I will have = available hand knitted socks, a English lady is teaching my mother how = to make them. I currently have two pair,(unfortunately they are made = from wool from a craft store part acrylic and part wool) if these sell I = have will have a source of 100% wool in the near future. Also available = handknitted touque's, liberty, voyager caps (whatever you prefer to call = them) I should have jpegs available soon to anyone interested. Frank Sablan Midland,Texas=20 ----- Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : = http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C28362.CE600C70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I bet those socks weren't=20 purple!

Lanney

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Michael=20 Powell
To: History List

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 = 4:28=20 PM

Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Socks

Hello the list,

There are those of you that might recall that Lewis gave Clark a = pair of=20 socks for Christmas while they were at Fort Clatsop.

(see L&C journals)

Later,

Mike Powell

Henry's Fork on the Snake

Upper Snake River Plains Country

----- Original Message -----
From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 03, = 2002 10:40=20 AM

To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=

Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Socks

I cant remember what the source was but I too = have read=20 accounts of socks, and I beleive they also referred them as = stockings (again=20 going from my memory). Now the next is a shameless plug. = I will=20 have available hand knitted socks, a English lady is teaching my = mother how=20 to make them. I currently have two pair,(unfortunately they = are made=20 from wool from a craft store part acrylic and part wool) if these = sell I=20 have will have a source of 100% wool in the near future. Also=20 available handknitted touque's, liberty, voyager caps (whatever you = prefer=20 to call them) I should have jpegs available soon to anyone=20 interested.

Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas=20

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C28362.CE600C70-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter and the End of Fall Date: 03 Nov 2002 19:01:36 -0700 At 06:32 AM 11/3/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Naturally, it twernt his fault, so he got up and bit one of the pigs to make >up for it. >Regards > >Lee Newbill of North Idaho >AMM# 1821 Les, Does that make your pony a pork eater? Couldn't resist. Allen in cold Fort Hall country ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks Date: 03 Nov 2002 22:43:27 EST In a message dated 11/2/02 11:28:27 PM, chaflesl@onewest.net writes: << wondering if the trappers wore sock? I have not read anything that has said. What do you think? >> Stockings - Hosiery - was a part of wearing apparel from the earliest times of the colonies. For someone to spend much time in the mountains, I am sure, would delete his supply of socks. Still - they were correct to the period. Remember, breeches as well as trousers were worn during the fur trade period and breeches - "back east" - were accompanied by stockings. As for suitable moccasin design, I just posted an exhaustive description to the : h-voyageur@yahoogroups.com board. If you do not subscribe to that one - you should. Most sincerely Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Powell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks Date: 04 Nov 2002 02:20:51 -0700 ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C283A8.CC04B480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Lanney, If you're interested, I try and find you a pair to match that lovely shir= t! YMHOS Mike Love Ya Brother ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 5:04 PM I bet those socks weren't purple! Lanney ----- Original Message ----- =20 Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:28 PM Hello the list, There are those of you that might recall that Lewis gave Clark a pair of = socks for Christmas while they were at Fort Clatsop. (see L&C journals) Later, Mike Powell Henry's Fork on the Snake =20 Upper Snake River Plains Country ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:40 AM I cant remember what the source was but I too have read accounts of socks= , and I beleive they also referred them as stockings (again going from my= memory). Now the next is a shameless plug. I will have available hand = knitted socks, a English lady is teaching my mother how to make them. I = currently have two pair,(unfortunately they are made from wool from a cra= ft store part acrylic and part wool) if these sell I have will have a sou= rce of 100% wool in the near future. Also available handknitted touque's= , liberty, voyager caps (whatever you prefer to call them) I should have= jpegs available soon to anyone interested. Frank Sablan Midland,Texas =20 Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.c= omGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.ms= n.com ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C283A8.CC04B480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey Lanney,

If you're interest= ed, I try and find you a pair to match that lovely shirt!

YMHO= S

Mike

Love Ya Brother

----- Original Message -----
From: L= anney Ratcliff

Sent: Sunday,= November 03, 2002 5:04 PM

To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com

= "MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
I bet those socks weren't purple!
Lanney

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael = Powell

To: = History List

Sent: Sund= ay, November 03, 2002 4:28 PM

Su= bject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks

Hello the lis= t,

There are those of you that might recall that Lewis gave Cl= ark a pair of socks for Christmas while they were at Fort Clatsop.
=
(see L&C journals)

Later,

Mike Powell
Henry's Fork on the Snake

Upper Snake River = Plains Country

= ----- Original Message -----

From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com

Sent= : Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:40 AM

To: hist_tex= t@lists.xmission.com

Subject= : Re: MtMan-List: Socks

I cant r= emember what the source was but I too have read accounts of socks, and I = beleive they also referred them as stockings (again going from my memory)= . Now the next is a shameless plug. I will have available han= d knitted socks, a English lady is teaching my mother how to make them.&n= bsp; I currently have two pair,(unfortunately they are made from wool fro= m a craft store part acrylic and part wool) if these sell I have will hav= e a source of 100% wool in the near future. Also available handknit= ted touque's, liberty, voyager caps (whatever you prefer to call them)&nb= sp; I should have jpegs available soon to anyone interested.

Frank= Sablan
Midland,Texas

= Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Get more from the Web. FREE M= SN Explorer download : http://explore= r.msn.com
------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C283A8.CC04B480-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Angela Gottfred" Subject: MtMan-List: David Tippets Date: 04 Nov 2002 07:12:56 -0700 David Tippets, are you still lurking out there? Your very humble & most obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: MtMan-List: Colt Buckle Date: 04 Nov 2002 10:34:33 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E1_01C283ED.C40EFE80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Are there any collectors of Colt collectables out there? If so, can anyone shed light on this piece? Value? A Colt manufactured belt buckle dated 1919 commemorating the end of WWI. The buckle has a legend across the bottom stating that it is made from = WWI cartridge cases picked up on the battlefields of France. It is in unused condition Thanks D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ------=_NextPart_000_00E1_01C283ED.C40EFE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Are there any = collectors of=20 Colt collectables out there?

If so, can anyone = shed light on=20 this piece? Value?

A Colt manufactured belt buckle = dated 1919=20 commemorating the end of WWI.

The buckle has a legend across the bottom stating that = it is made=20 from WWI cartridge cases picked up on the battlefields of=20 France.

It=20 is in unused condition

Thanks

D

   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math=20 e"
            = DOUBLE=20 EDGE FORGE
       Knives and Iron=20 Accouterments
      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1

   "Knowing how is just the=20 beginning."
= ------=_NextPart_000_00E1_01C283ED.C40EFE80-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Calbe Sweet pioneer project Date: 04 Nov 2002 20:23:42 EST --part1_115.1a17d0c6.2af8779e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear gentlemen, Thank you for all the help on my project. Mr. Moore I would like your article from On the Trail magazine. Our address is 7645 Thunderbird lane Colorado Springs, CO 80919. Barney or hardtack I don't have a time period. We would like some of those recipes. We think we are going to make buffalo or deer stew and soutdough biscuits. sincerely, Caleb Sweet --part1_115.1a17d0c6.2af8779e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear gentlemen,

Thank you for all the help on my project. Mr. Moore I would like your article from On the Trail magazine. Our address is 7645 Thunderbird lane Colorado Springs, CO 80919.
Barney or hardtack I don't have a time period. We would like some of those recipes. We think we are going to make buffalo or deer stew and soutdough biscuits.

sincerely,

Caleb Sweet

--part1_115.1a17d0c6.2af8779e_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks Date: 04 Nov 2002 23:33:03 EST --part1_109.1b4c1ef1.2af8a3ff_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lanney and Mike I came across some Barney purple wool blend yarn. And I just happen to know a very fine knitter to knitt a pair of matching socks. Frank Sablan Midland,Texas ps. Mike I just might have a hard time locating pink to match your shirt. --part1_109.1b4c1ef1.2af8a3ff_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lanney and Mike

I came across some Barney purple wool blend yarn. And I just happen to know a very fine knitter to knitt a pair of matching socks.

Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas

ps. Mike I just might have a hard time locating pink to match your shirt. --part1_109.1b4c1ef1.2af8a3ff_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Rats Report Date: 04 Nov 2002 22:32:44 -0700 (MST) Dear List, The big rat trapping adventure is going well. We caught 17 the first night which is better than I thought we�d do. The second check (this morning) produced 12 more rats. I had to work so Vince went up on his own to check them and moved some of the traps. I told him to be careful on that rotten ice alone and stick close to shore. We saw tracks in the snow the first morning where a duck hunter walked out 20 feet past where Vince broke through to his waist. That was either one lucky duck hunter or a real skinny one. Vince took along his dog and said he really had a good time. Vince is a fast learner when it comes to this blood & guts game. You only have to show him once how to spot a good location and how to make the set. I�ve never seen anyone take to skinning critters and putting them up faster than him, he�s a natural at it. It sure helps to have someone to show you how. A guy can really spend a lot of time trying to figure all this out on his own. I hope we get 11 tomorrow to make it an even 40 rats. The ice is starting to thaw with the latest warm spell so tomorrow will be it. Vince is going to get a trooper style hat made out of the best pelts. Oh, and now Vince said he�s always wanted a skunk hat! I guess I�ll start looking for a skunk den. BB ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Petersen" Subject: MtMan-List: Bows Date: 05 Nov 2002 07:59:17 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01C284A1.3D79AAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just an idea, although not quit as �pure� as finding a true primitive bow, there are a couple of manufacturers which make long bows that are not finished. Out of the box they could be used, but they are sold with the idea that you need to prep, sand, customize, paint, decorate and create your own model of long bow. The nice thing is that you can also get it with a draw weight as small as 20 and as big as 65 pounds. I bought one last year with a 30 pound draw just to use around the field teaching kids archery. I had fun taking cedar shafts and making my own arrows. The bow itself then was oiled and hand wrapped. It can continually be modified. Over all it was fun, but I am not an overly patient person, so making a bow from scratch was out of the question, but this way I could play a little and then do some more work on it. Play and work. Skol! Thomas R Petersen Bill Hart District Chair and WLACC High Adventure Team Chair Phone: (661) 255-2864 * Fax (661) 254-0604 * E-Mail: BSAHighAdventure@yahoo.com or Thomas@piu.org Bill Hart District Website: http://billhart.bsa-la.org/ High Adventure Team Website: http://hat.bsa-la.org/ ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01C284A1.3D79AAA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Just an idea, although not quit as “pure” as finding = a true primitive bow, there are a couple of manufacturers which make long bows that are = not finished. Out of the box they could be used, but they are sold with the = idea that you need to prep, sand, customize, paint, decorate and create your = own model of long bow. The nice thing is that you can also get it with a = draw weight as small as 20 and as big as 65 pounds. =

I bought one last year with a 30 pound draw just to use around = the field teaching kids archery. I had fun taking cedar shafts and making my own = arrows. The bow itself then was oiled and hand wrapped. It can continually be = modified. Over all it was fun, but I am not an overly patient person, so making a = bow from scratch was out of the question, but this way I could play a little = and then do some more work on it. Play and work. =

Skol!

Thomas R Petersen

Bill = Hart District Chair and WLACC High Adventure Team Chair

Phone: (661) 255-2864 * Fax (661) = 254-0604 * E-Mail: BSAHighAdventure@yahoo.com or Thomas@piu.org

Bill Hart District Website:           &n= bsp; http://billhart.bsa-la.org/

High Adventure Team Website:      http://hat.bsa-la.org/

------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01C284A1.3D79AAA0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bows Date: 05 Nov 2002 11:06:42 -0500 (EST) You have peaked my interest,who are these bow maker's? Y.M.O.S, M.A.Smith P.S, Greeting'a to all! As I have not been on list for some time! M. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Caleb Sweet pioneer project Date: 05 Nov 2002 11:31:45 EST --part1_90.2e82eec5.2af94c71_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Caleb, From the Buffalo Cookbook, Published by the National Buffalo Association, POB 580, Ft. Pierre, SD, 57532, (605) 223-2829, Printed by State Publishing, Pierre, SD 57501, Copyright 1989 Here's a couple of recipes I've tried myself, and I had to use a large stick to keep interlopers away from the Dutch...... PLAIN BUFFALO STEW 2 Lb. Cubed Buffalo Meat 1 Onion, finely chopped (1 cup) 3 Medium Potatoes, peeled and sliced (2-3 cups) 2 Tablespoon Cooking Oil 6 Carrots, peeled and sliced 2 Cups Mixed Vegetables (Celery, Squash, Zuccini, etc) 2 Cans Tomato Sauce (6 oz) 2 Teaspoon Salt 1/2 Teaspoon Pepper Brown meat in small amount of oil in a large Dutch oven, then add Onion and cook until golden brown. Add tomato sauce, carrots and seasonings, cover, COOK 1 HOUR. Add potatoes and 1 cup water, if needed. Cover and cook 1/2 hour. Add mixed vegetables and cook another 1/2 hour. Keep heat very low, so stew is just simmering, at all times. From the Original Cowboy Cookbook, by 'Wild Wes' Medley, Published by Original Western Publications, Cairo, NE 68824, Copyright 1989 RANCHLAND DEER POT ROAST 1/2 Cup Flour 1 Venison Roast - 2 inchest thick 2 Tablespoons Vegetable Oil 1/4 Cup chopped Celery 1 Carrot, chopped 2 Tablespoons chopped Onion 1/2 Teaspoon Salt 1/4 Teaspoon Pepper 1 Cup boiling Water 1 Cup Red Wine (it cooks off, so not to worry) Pound flour into meat. In a large skillet, brown meat in oil. Add vegetables, salt, pepper and 1/2 cup each of wine and water. Simmer COVERED for 1 hour. Add remaining liquids and simmer until tender. SOURDOUGH BREAD To be done properly, you have to make a 'starter', then when that is ready, use it to bake your bread or biscuits with..... SOURDOUGH STARTER 1 quart lukewarm Water 1 pkg. dry Yeast 2 Teaspoon Sugar 4 cup All-Pupose Flour Put water in crock; add yeast and sugar to soften. Stir in flour. Cover with a clean cloth. Let rise until mixture is light and slightly aged, about 2 days. Mixture will thin as it stands; add flour as needed. As you use the sourdough from the crock, replace it with equal amounts of flour and water to keep a full batch of 'starter' going. BLUE RIBBON SOURDOUGH BREAD (Makes 2 large loaves) 2 cups Sourdough Starter 2 cups lukewarm Water (potato, rice or macoroni water if possible) 1/3 to 1/2 cup Sugar 1 tablespoon Salt 3 tablespoons Salad Oil or Butter (Butter is best) 1 Pkg Yeast 7 to 9 cups Flour Begin the night before by mixing the 'starter' with 2 cups each of flour and water. Mix well, cover and let sit in a warm place overnight. This is the new 'starter' you use for the recipe. In the morning take 2 cups from the mixture and pour the remaining sourdough into your 'starter' crock and refrigerate. Mix the starter with the water, sugar, salt and oil. Add yeast. Add flour to make a medium soft but not sticky dough. Knead well, until smooth and elastic (6-8 minutes). Place in a lightly greased bowl, turning once to grease surface of dough. Cover, let double in size (about 1 hour) in a warm place. Punch down and let rise again (this 2nd rise can be skipped to save time). Punch down, knead it lightly and cut into 2 equal pieces. To bake in a 12 inch Dutch, form each piece into a round loaf, place in a lightly greased oven, slice the top several times and allow to raise again. Pre-heat the lid and bake with heat from top and bottom for 15-20 minutes, remove half of bottom heat and continue baking 20-30 minutes or until browned and done. Cool on wire rack. ENJOY. Good luck with your project, and let us know how it comes out. Barney --part1_90.2e82eec5.2af94c71_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Caleb, From the Buffalo Cookbook, Published by the National Buffalo Association, POB 580, Ft. Pierre, SD, 57532, (605) 223-2829, Printed by State Publishing, Pierre, SD 57501, Copyright 1989

Here's a couple of recipes I've tried myself, and I had to use a large stick to keep interlopers away from the Dutch......

PLAIN BUFFALO STEW
2 Lb. Cubed Buffalo Meat
1 Onion, finely chopped (1 cup)
3 Medium Potatoes, peeled and sliced (2-3 cups)
2 Tablespoon Cooking Oil
6 Carrots, peeled and sliced
2 Cups Mixed Vegetables (Celery, Squash, Zuccini, etc)
2 Cans Tomato Sauce (6 oz)
2 Teaspoon Salt
1/2 Teaspoon Pepper

Brown meat in small amount of oil in a large Dutch oven, then add Onion and cook until golden brown. Add tomato sauce, carrots and seasonings, cover, COOK 1 HOUR. Add potatoes and 1 cup water, if needed. Cover and cook 1/2 hour. Add mixed vegetables and cook another 1/2 hour. Keep heat very low, so stew is just simmering, at all times.

From the Original Cowboy Cookbook, by 'Wild Wes' Medley, Published by Original Western Publications, Cairo, NE 68824, Copyright 1989

RANCHLAND DEER POT ROAST
1/2 Cup Flour
1 Venison Roast - 2 inchest thick
2 Tablespoons Vegetable Oil
1/4 Cup chopped Celery
1 Carrot, chopped
2 Tablespoons chopped Onion
1/2 Teaspoon Salt
1/4 Teaspoon Pepper
1 Cup boiling Water
1 Cup Red Wine (it cooks off, so not to worry) <GGG>

Pound flour into meat. In a large skillet, brown meat in oil. Add vegetables, salt, pepper and 1/2 cup each of wine and water. Simmer COVERED for 1 hour. Add remaining liquids and simmer until tender.

SOURDOUGH BREAD

To be done properly, you have to make a 'starter', then when that is ready, use it to bake your bread or biscuits with.....

SOURDOUGH STARTER
1 quart lukewarm Water
1 pkg. dry Yeast
2 Teaspoon Sugar
4 cup All-Pupose Flour

Put water in crock; add yeast and sugar to soften. Stir in flour. Cover with a clean cloth. Let rise until mixture is light and slightly aged, about 2 days. Mixture will thin as it stands; add flour as needed. As you use the sourdough from the crock, replace it with equal amounts of flour and water to keep a full batch of 'starter' going.

BLUE RIBBON SOURDOUGH BREAD
(Makes 2 large loaves)
2 cups Sourdough Starter
2 cups lukewarm Water (potato, rice or macoroni water if possible)
1/3 to 1/2 cup Sugar
1 tablespoon Salt
3 tablespoons Salad Oil or Butter (Butter is best)
1 Pkg Yeast
7 to 9 cups Flour

Begin the night before by mixing the 'starter' with 2 cups each of flour and water. Mix well, cover and let sit in a warm place overnight. This is the new 'starter' you use for the recipe.

In the morning take 2 cups from the mixture and pour the remaining sourdough into your 'starter' crock and refrigerate.

Mix the starter with the water, sugar, salt and oil. Add yeast. Add flour to make a medium soft but not sticky dough. Knead well, until smooth and elastic (6-8 minutes).

Place in a lightly greased bowl, turning once to grease surface of dough. Cover, let double in size (about 1 hour) in a warm place.

Punch down and let rise again (this 2nd rise can be skipped to save time). Punch down, knead it lightly and cut into 2 equal pieces.

To bake in a 12 inch Dutch, form each piece into a round loaf, place in a lightly greased oven, slice the top several times and allow to raise again.

Pre-heat the lid and bake with heat from top and bottom for 15-20 minutes, remove half of bottom heat and continue baking 20-30 minutes or until browned and done. Cool on wire rack. ENJOY.

Good luck with your project, and let us know how it comes out.      Barney

--part1_90.2e82eec5.2af94c71_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Dendy" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Caywood Fusil For Sale Date: 05 Nov 2002 10:45:06 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C284B8.6829BD50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit French Type "D" for sale. $1,100.00 plus shipping. It comes with a 24 ga. smooth bore barrel and a .58 cal. rifled barrel. That's right, two barrels. The gun has never been fired with either barrel. I bought the gun in 1997 but have used my double barrel flintlock for hunting and never got around to developing a load or sighting it in. The stock is factory finished and sealed and the barrels were blued from Caywood's kit. The gun also includes Caywood's optional sling set-up. You may contact me off-list at bill@southcrest.com for photos and to answer any questions. YMOS Bill Dendy ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C284B8.6829BD50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
French=20 Type "D" for sale. $1,100.00 plus shipping. It comes with a = 24 ga.=20 smooth bore barrel and a .58 cal. rifled barrel. That's right, two = barrels.   The gun has never been fired with either = barrel. =20

I=20 bought the gun in 1997 but have used my double barrel flintlock for = hunting and=20 never got around to developing a load or sighting it = in.

The=20 stock is factory finished and sealed and the barrels were blued from = Caywood's=20 kit. The gun also includes Caywood's optional sling=20 set-up.

You=20 may contact me off-list at bill@southcrest.com for photos = and to=20 answer any questions.

YMOS

Bill=20 Dendy
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C284B8.6829BD50-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: MtMan-List: Crass Commercial Announcement Date: 05 Nov 2002 11:50:42 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C284C1.915F6D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just put up 14 new stickers on the site. A couple-three are 18thC, but = most are 19thC trade Scalpers, Butchers &ct.... Look at 'em here... http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/Knives.html Thanks D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C284C1.915F6D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just put up 14 = new=20 stickers on the site. A couple-three are 18thC, but most are 19thC trade = Scalpers, Butchers &ct....

Look at 'em here...=20 http://www.bright.ne= t/~deforge1/Knives.html

Thanks

D

   = "Abair ach=20 beagan is abair gu math=20 e"
            = DOUBLE=20 EDGE FORGE
       Knives and Iron=20 Accouterments
      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1

   "Knowing = how is just=20 the beginning."
------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C284C1.915F6D60-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bows Date: 05 Nov 2002 11:38:02 -0700 Skol do you have a contact for this company? Wynn ----- Original Message ----- > Just an idea, although not quit as "pure" as finding a true primitive bow, > there are a couple of manufacturers which make long bows that are not > finished. Out of the box they could be used, but they are sold with the idea > that you need to prep, sand, customize, paint, decorate and create your own > model of long bow. The nice thing is that you can also get it with a draw > weight as small as 20 and as big as 65 pounds. > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rats Report Date: 05 Nov 2002 16:05:37 -0500 I have been looking for Mice hides for a Looooong time. Do you ever get any white rats? Linda Holley beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: >Dear List, > The big rat trapping adventure is going well. We caught 17 the >first night which is better than I thought we�d do. The second check >(this morning) produced 12 more rats. I had to work so Vince went up on >his own to check them and moved some of the traps. I told him to be >careful on that rotten ice alone and stick close to shore. We saw tracks >in the snow the first morning where a duck hunter walked out 20 feet past >where Vince broke through to his waist. That was either one lucky duck >hunter or a real skinny one. Vince took along his dog and said he really >had a good time. Vince is a fast learner when it comes to this blood & >guts game. You only have to show him once how to spot a good location and >how to make the set. I�ve never seen anyone take to skinning critters and >putting them up faster than him, he�s a natural at it. It sure helps to >have someone to show you how. A guy can really spend a lot of time trying >to figure all this out on his own. I hope we get 11 tomorrow to make it an >even 40 rats. The ice is starting to thaw with the latest warm spell so >tomorrow will be it. Vince is going to get a trooper style hat made out of >the best pelts. > Oh, and now Vince said he�s always wanted a skunk hat! I guess >I�ll start looking for a skunk den. > > BB > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 05 Nov 2002 18:52:49 -0500 (EST) Has anyone seen or handled Pedersoli's Indian Trade Musket? If so,any opinion's or comment's on it? I have a Pedersoli Long Rifle which I am very happy with and at $450 I felt was a good deal. The trade musket is $700 which is a bit higher, my point being would It be better to just go with a custom piece or is the Pedersoli a good repo. for the price! Your Servant, M.A.Smith ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 05 Nov 2002 16:10:49 -0800 Mr. Smith, You can get a North Star west English Trade gun for $850, or $750 in the white.(do a search, they have a web site) I understand that some semi custom builders have them for less. I'd check around before I spent $700 on a pedersoli. Granted, they are decent mass produced guns, but $700 might buy you a pretty darn good semi custom. Just my thoughts. Hardtack Randal Bublitz rjbublitz@earthlink.net Freedom is Not Free > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 11/5/02 3:52:49 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket > > Has anyone seen or handled Pedersoli's Indian Trade Musket? If so,any > opinion's or comment's on it? I have a Pedersoli Long Rifle which I am > very happy with and at $450 I felt was a good deal. The trade musket is > $700 which is a bit higher, my point being would It be better to just > go with a custom piece or is the Pedersoli a good repo. for the price! > Your Servant, > > M.A.Smith > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 05 Nov 2002 19:36:39 EST --part1_1a1.b3beed0.2af9be17_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit North Star West Home Page --part1_1a1.b3beed0.2af9be17_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit North Star West Home Page --part1_1a1.b3beed0.2af9be17_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 05 Nov 2002 20:10:33 -0500 (EST) Went to North Star Wests Home page and liked what I saw! M. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Mooney Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bows Date: 05 Nov 2002 20:24:10 -0500 Yes please share the name of the maker, I am very interested as well. Tnx, Jim At 11:38 AM 11/5/02 -0700, you wrote: >Skol do you have a contact for this company? >Wynn > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > Just an idea, although not quit as "pure" as finding a true primitive bow, > > there are a couple of manufacturers which make long bows that are not > > finished. Out of the box they could be used, but they are sold with the >idea > > that you need to prep, sand, customize, paint, decorate and create your >own > > model of long bow. The nice thing is that you can also get it with a draw > > weight as small as 20 and as big as 65 pounds. > > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Butch" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #1104 Date: 05 Nov 2002 20:17:41 -0600 You have peaked my interest,who are these bow maker's? Y.M.O.S, M.A.Smith You might try this http://www.primitivearcher.com/pages/ads/ads-list.html If you can find a Primitve Archer magazine, there will be a few more adds in the back. Just a word of caution. I make Osage self bows and know quite a few people who make them. If you find a cheap bow, that's probably what your buying. The people who advertise in PA are good folks to do business with and, sell a decent product. Hope this helps. Roundbelly --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/02 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rats Report Date: 05 Nov 2002 20:12:39 -0700 (MST) Linda, Though I did skin a mouse once when I was a lad I can't bring myself to do it again. When I first read the Journal of Fort Clark I jumped right in the middle like I do on a lot of books I read. I got to the part where he recorded the rats killed for that particular month. I thought to myself, "Man! They really have a lot of muskrats in that country!" Well, he did mean rats! Norway Rats! City Rats! They arrived with the steamboats that supplied the fort. So I should clearify myself. We were trapping muskrats. But either way, No I don't ever get white rats, musky or otherwise. Sincerely, Beaverboy > I have been looking for Mice hides for a Looooong time. Do you ever get > any white rats? > > Linda Holley > > beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > >>Dear List, >> The big rat trapping adventure is going well. We caught 17 the >>first night which is better than I thought we�d do. The second check >>(this morning) produced 12 more rats. I had to work so Vince went up on >>his own to check them and moved some of the traps. I told him to be >>careful on that rotten ice alone and stick close to shore. We saw >>tracks in the snow the first morning where a duck hunter walked out 20 >>feet past where Vince broke through to his waist. That was either one >>lucky duck hunter or a real skinny one. Vince took along his dog and >>said he really had a good time. Vince is a fast learner when it comes >>to this blood & guts game. You only have to show him once how to spot a >>good location and how to make the set. I�ve never seen anyone take to >>skinning critters and putting them up faster than him, he�s a natural >>at it. It sure helps to have someone to show you how. A guy can really >>spend a lot of time trying to figure all this out on his own. I hope we >>get 11 tomorrow to make it an even 40 rats. The ice is starting to >>thaw with the latest warm spell so tomorrow will be it. Vince is going >>to get a trooper style hat made out of the best pelts. >> Oh, and now Vince said he�s always wanted a skunk hat! I guess >>I�ll start looking for a skunk den. >> >> BB >> >> >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> >> > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: North Star West Trade Gun Date: 05 Nov 2002 20:32:13 -0700 (MST) Dear List, I've had a North Star West .20 ga trade gun for five years now and love it. I've never had a problem with it and it sparks just as good now as when it was new. I would recommend getting a kit or in-the-white trade gun so you can make it or finish it uniquely yours. The kits are not that hard to complete if your fairly competent with hand tools. A mass produced gun is just that, mass produced and will be exactly like the other 15,000 they produced. I met Charles Caywood and after talking to him for ten minutes I wished I had bought a Caywood. His gun kits are suppose to be very closely fitted making it much easier to complete. Still I�m very happy with my North Star West. One last point. If you build the gun yourself you can drill the flash hole. Vent liners are not historical and in my opinion stick out like a sore thumb. Some say they are historical yet I have never seen a flintlock in a museum that had one. I�ve seen a lot of old flintlocks too but never with a liner in one. BB ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rats Report Date: 06 Nov 2002 00:59:32 -0500 --------------090504000703010104040307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh rats! I still need mice hides. Now a muskrat coat would be nice....and looking at the "rat" that just chewed a hole in my screen on my screen poarch......I am getting ideas of going on a "rat" hunt. These guys are little brown/grey things, but they are the only things I am permitted to "trap" around here. Guess I better go out and lay or lie my trap line down in the morning to catch these little monsters. Wonder what it is going to cost me to replace a huge screen on the porch? Anyway......does anyone sell little "rat" traps ?????? ;o) And skinning those little things will be much easier when I think of the damage to my screen. Linda Holley beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: --------------090504000703010104040307 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh rats! I still need mice hides. Now a muskrat coat would be nice....and looking at the "rat" that just chewed a hole in my screen on my screen poarch......I am getting ideas of going on a "rat" hunt. These guys are little brown/grey things, but they are the only things I am permitted to "trap" around here. Guess I better go out and lay or lie my trap line down in the morning to catch these little monsters. Wonder what it is going to cost me to replace a huge screen on the porch? Anyway......does anyone sell little "rat" traps ?????? ;o) And skinning those little things will be much easier when I think of the damage to my screen.

Linda Holley

beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:
--------------090504000703010104040307-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rats Report Date: 05 Nov 2002 22:21:51 -0800
Linda, I have a .62 caliber 'rat trap' for sale..... It's not real quiet though....neighbors may get nervous when it goes off. Will take care of rats, large or small though...<g>     hardtack

Randal Bublitz

rjbublitz@earthlink.net

Freedom is Not Free

----- Original Message -----

From: Linda Holley

To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com

Sent: 11/5/02 9:59:32 PM

Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rats Report

Oh rats! I still need mice hides. Now a muskrat coat would be nice....and looking at the "rat" that just chewed a hole in my screen on my screen poarch......I am getting ideas of going on a "rat" hunt. These guys are little brown/grey things, but they are the only things I am permitted to "trap" around here. Guess I better go out and lay or lie my trap line down in the morning to catch these little monsters. Wonder what it is going to cost me to replace a huge screen on the porch? Anyway......does anyone sell little "rat" traps ?????? ;o) And skinning those little things will be much easier when I think of the damage to my screen.

Linda Holley

beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rats Report Date: 06 Nov 2002 00:57:10 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2852F.700CF650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Linda Holley wrote: Wonder what it is going to cost me to replace a huge screen on the = porch? Virtually nothing at all if (1) the hole isn't too big and (2) a neat = (cheap) repair will serve your purpose as well as a more expensive and = involved screen replacement. Buy a scrap of screen material a little = larger than the hole, trim both the patch and the rat hole neatly and, = using a big needle and heavy thread simply sew the patch over the hole, = going through as many holes in the screen as seem necessary. A helper = might be needed at this stage. Unless the hole is big enough for = possums, the patch will be surprisingly un-noticeable...which if done = right will look a lot like a industrial strength spider web. This is a = prime example of poor folks having poor ways. I always figured that a = screen with a patch has character. Spend the money that a new screen = would have cost to buy a nice bottle of Hornito's Tequila. cheers Lanney ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2852F.700CF650 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Linda Holley = wrote:

   Wonder what it is going to cost me to replace a huge = screen on=20 the porch?

Virtually nothing at all = if (1) the=20 hole isn't too big and (2) a neat (cheap)  repair will serve = your=20 purpose as well as a more expensive and involved screen = replacement. Buy=20 a scrap of screen material a little larger than the hole, trim both = the patch=20 and the rat hole neatly and, using a big needle and heavy thread = simply sew=20 the patch over the hole, going through as many holes in the screen as = seem=20 necessary. A helper might be needed at this stage. Unless = the hole=20 is big enough for possums, the patch will be surprisingly=20 un-noticeable...which if done right will look a = lot like a=20 industrial strength spider web. This is a prime example of = poor=20 folks having poor ways. I always figured that a screen with a = patch has=20 character. Spend the money that a new screen would have cost to = buy a=20 nice bottle of Hornito's Tequila.

cheers

Lanney
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2852F.700CF650-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rats Report Date: 06 Nov 2002 02:32:36 -0500 --------------050404030201040001080003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not a bad idea.....but the holes we are talking about are in the area of 12x12 inches. Thouht it was the darn squirrels at first because the holes (6 of them) were so big and so fast, done in the last two days. But when I am standing face to face with the little hairy varmint and I am saying "what's' up doc?" Where is my 36 caliber original Leman when I need it.....on the wall where it stays. This is what my 9 mm small Belgium Browning was made for.......death to all "rats". And if any of you take this personal.......Holloween is over. Oh! gee, it is 2:30 AM and I should be in bed and not facing my students or the large hairy rodent on my porch. Good night and I will buy extra pieces of screen tomorrow and fix the darn holes. I am the only one who has to look at it and that is why they made curtains....to hide holes. Linda Holley Lanney Ratcliff wrote: > Linda Holley wrote: > Wonder what it is going to cost me to replace a huge screen on the > porch? > > Virtually nothing at all if (1) the hole isn't too big and (2) a > neat (cheap) repair will serve your purpose as well as a more > expensive and involved screen replacement. Buy a scrap of screen > material a little larger than the hole, trim both the patch and > the rat hole neatly and, using a big needle and heavy thread > simply sew the patch over the hole, going through as many holes in > the screen as seem necessary. A helper might be needed at this > stage. Unless the hole is big enough for possums, the patch will > be surprisingly un-noticeable...which if done right will look a > lot like a industrial strength spider web. This is a prime > example of poor folks having poor ways. I always figured that a > screen with a patch has character. Spend the money that a new > screen would have cost to buy a nice bottle of Hornito's Tequila. > cheers > Lanney > --------------050404030201040001080003 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not a bad idea.....but the holes we are talking about are in the area of 12x12 inches. Thouht it was the darn squirrels at first because the holes (6 of them) were so big and so fast, done in the last two days. But when I am standing face to face with the little hairy varmint and I am saying "what's' up doc?" Where is my 36 caliber original Leman when I need it.....on the wall where it stays. This is what my 9 mm small Belgium Browning was made for.......death to all "rats". And if any of you take this personal.......Holloween is over. Oh! gee, it is 2:30 AM and I should be in bed and not facing my students or the large hairy rodent on my porch.

Good night and I will buy extra pieces of screen tomorrow and fix the darn holes. I am the only one who has to look at it and that is why they made curtains....to hide holes.

Linda Holley

Lanney Ratcliff wrote:

Linda Holley wrote:

   Wonder what it is going to cost me to replace a huge screen on the porch?

Virtually nothing at all if (1) the hole isn't too big and (2) a neat (cheap)  repair will serve your purpose as well as a more expensive and involved screen replacement. Buy a scrap of screen material a little larger than the hole, trim both the patch and the rat hole neatly and, using a big needle and heavy thread simply sew the patch over the hole, going through as many holes in the screen as seem necessary. A helper might be needed at this stage. Unless the hole is big enough for possums, the patch will be surprisingly un-noticeable...which if done right will look a lot like a industrial strength spider web. This is a prime example of poor folks having poor ways. I always figured that a screen with a patch has character. Spend the money that a new screen would have cost to buy a nice bottle of Hornito's Tequila.

cheers

Lanney

--------------050404030201040001080003-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rats Report Date: 06 Nov 2002 05:48:31 -0700 (MST) Linda, Yes, they still sell big rat traps. You just have to locate them. Call a ranch supply store or hardware store. Then leave one or two of them holes open and place your trap or traps just below them. This will help make sure you catch them stinking rats when they try sneaking in. I had a small hole in the wall of the skinning room that the mice where crawling in. I placed a mouse trap right below the opening and caught three within an hour as I was skinning. Now that was a good set location! This is what you call a "Blind set" as it's just set in a natural travel way. I'd still bait it though with good ol peanut butter. Good luck, BB > Not a bad idea.....but the holes we are talking about are in the area > of 12x12 inches. Thouht it was the darn squirrels at first because > the holes (6 of them) were so big and so fast, done in the last two > days. > But when I am standing face to face with the little hairy varmint and I > > am saying "what's' up doc?" Where is my 36 caliber original Leman > when I need it.....on the wall where it stays. This is what my 9 mm > small Belgium Browning was made for.......death to all "rats". And > if any of you take this personal.......Holloween is over. Oh! gee, > it is 2:30 AM and I should be in bed and not facing my students or the > large hairy rodent on my porch. > > Good night and I will buy extra pieces of screen tomorrow and fix the > darn holes. I am the only one who has to look at it and that is why > they made curtains....to hide holes. > > Linda Holley > > Lanney Ratcliff wrote: > >> Linda Holley wrote: >> Wonder what it is going to cost me to replace a huge screen on the >> porch? >> >> Virtually nothing at all if (1) the hole isn't too big and (2) a >> neat (cheap) repair will serve your purpose as well as a more >> expensive and involved screen replacement. Buy a scrap of screen >> material a little larger than the hole, trim both the patch and >> the rat hole neatly and, using a big needle and heavy thread >> simply sew the patch over the hole, going through as many holes in >> the screen as seem necessary. A helper might be needed at this >> stage. Unless the hole is big enough for possums, the patch will >> be surprisingly un-noticeable...which if done right will look a >> lot like a industrial strength spider web. This is a prime >> example of poor folks having poor ways. I always figured that a >> screen with a patch has character. Spend the money that a new >> screen would have cost to buy a nice bottle of Hornito's Tequila. >> cheers >> Lanney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Chronister Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 06 Nov 2002 08:40:35 -0700 You might be better off going with a North Star West gun. You can get one fully assembled in the white for about the same price as the Italian gun and make it look the way you want. I have done a couple of North Star guns that way and was very pleased with the results, including a pistol and a trade gun. I can't recall if Caywood has a trade gun, but if so they also sell assembled guns in the white. Allen Chronister The Grey Wolfe wrote: > Has anyone seen or handled Pedersoli's Indian Trade Musket? If so,any > opinion's or comment's on it? I have a Pedersoli Long Rifle which I am > very happy with and at $450 I felt was a good deal. The trade musket is > $700 which is a bit higher, my point being would It be better to just > go with a custom piece or is the Pedersoli a good repo. for the price! > Your Servant, > > M.A.Smith > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wahkahchim@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Canoe Gun Date: 06 Nov 2002 12:23:54 -0500 Has anyone had any experience with the North Star West Canoe Gun and did they use them back in the real days of the fur trade? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Chronister Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canoe Gun Date: 06 Nov 2002 10:29:49 -0700 During much of the 19th century the American Fur Company ordered trade guns in three usual barrel lengths: 30", 36" and 42". Occasionally they ordered some in 33". Any modification to the stock or barrel after that was almost certainly an aftermarket deal. Allen Chronister Wahkahchim@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone had any experience with the North Star West Canoe Gun and did they use them back in the real days of the fur trade? > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rats Report Date: 06 Nov 2002 00:57:10 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2852F.700CF650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Linda Holley wrote: Wonder what it is going to cost me to replace a huge screen on the = porch? Virtually nothing at all if (1) the hole isn't too big and (2) a neat = (cheap) repair will serve your purpose as well as a more expensive and = involved screen replacement. Buy a scrap of screen material a little = larger than the hole, trim both the patch and the rat hole neatly and, = using a big needle and heavy thread simply sew the patch over the hole, = going through as many holes in the screen as seem necessary. A helper = might be needed at this stage. Unless the hole is big enough for = possums, the patch will be surprisingly un-noticeable...which if done = right will look a lot like a industrial strength spider web. This is a = prime example of poor folks having poor ways. I always figured that a = screen with a patch has character. Spend the money that a new screen = would have cost to buy a nice bottle of Hornito's Tequila. cheers Lanney ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2852F.700CF650 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Linda Holley = wrote:

   Wonder what it is going to cost me to replace a huge = screen on=20 the porch?

Virtually nothing at all = if (1) the=20 hole isn't too big and (2) a neat (cheap)  repair will serve = your=20 purpose as well as a more expensive and involved screen = replacement. Buy=20 a scrap of screen material a little larger than the hole, trim both = the patch=20 and the rat hole neatly and, using a big needle and heavy thread = simply sew=20 the patch over the hole, going through as many holes in the screen as = seem=20 necessary. A helper might be needed at this stage. Unless = the hole=20 is big enough for possums, the patch will be surprisingly=20 un-noticeable...which if done right will look a = lot like a=20 industrial strength spider web. This is a prime example of = poor=20 folks having poor ways. I always figured that a screen with a = patch has=20 character. Spend the money that a new screen would have cost to = buy a=20 nice bottle of Hornito's Tequila.

cheers

Lanney
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2852F.700CF650-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canoe Gun Date: 06 Nov 2002 12:35:24 -0700 (MST) My North Star West trade gun has been good to me. Never had a problem ever with it. Still sparks like when new. I would agree with Allen Chronister in that they came standard lengths and then were cut (or filed off) to shorter length. A friend of mine recently found a length of trade gun barrel along the banks of the Teton River here in Montana. I did not measure it but it was only about 14"-16" long(maybe a little longer). No doubt filed off in the field by its owner. It was too rusty to get a good look at the makers mark but I could clearly see the wedding bands, proof mark, chiseled in rear site and flash hole. No, there was not a vent liner. It was a wonderful find! He said I was the most excited of all the people who have seen it. I guess I appreciated the find more than others. I tried to convince him to lend it the Museum of the Upper Missouri in Fort Benton so all could see it. I don't know what he decided to do with it. It was really neat holding it and imagining all the game it killed! Perhaps it was even responsible for a few violent human deaths. A true relic of the fur trade! Beaverboy Allen, Caywood does make a Trade Gun they have a nice webpage. > Has anyone had any experience with the North Star West Canoe Gun and > did they use them back in the real days of the fur trade? > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: MtMan-List: Trade Spurs Date: 06 Nov 2002 19:59:34 +0000 Recently someone was looking for a pair of trade spurs typical of what was sent to the mountains. There is a pair on ebay right now under the listing AMERICAN SPURS #732628718. They appear to be tin dipped and look nice... I already have a pair of early spurs and don't need another pair right now or I'd be getting them. Just thought I'd alert you if you're interested- good luck! Dios, Libertad y Tejas Scott McMahon S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." General Ethan Allen Hitchcock _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trade Spurs Date: 06 Nov 2002 15:28:34 -0500 Scott, Thanks Scott, it was I who inquired about them, I could not get ahold of Roman Gilltzer(sp) Frank Sablan Midland,Texas In a message dated Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:59:34 +0000, "scott mcmahon" writes: >Recently someone was looking for a pair of trade spurs typical of what was >sent to the mountains. There is a pair on ebay right now under the listing >AMERICAN SPURS #732628718. They appear to be tin dipped and look nice... I >already have a pair of early spurs and don't need another pair right now or >I'd be getting them. Just thought I'd alert you if you're interested- good >luck! > > � �Dios, Libertad y Tejas > � �Scott McMahon > � �S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. > > � �"Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any >sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one >or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a >rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." > � �General Ethan Allen Hitchcock > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 06 Nov 2002 17:02:36 -0600 I can't recall if Caywood has a trade gun, but if so they also sell assembled guns in the white. Allen Chronister >> I have a Caywood N.W.Gun and I really like it. It has a 42" barrel, which according to the documentation I have, was the most common length. Caywood also makes them in 36" and in 30", I think. I highly reccomend their work. First rate ! Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Don & Janice Shero" Subject: MtMan-List: trade gun Date: 06 Nov 2002 18:37:29 -0600 Mr. Grey Wolfe, Have you checked out Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading. $800...$700 in the white. ..fusil , fowler or trade gun. All reports good on TVM stuff. Don ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Banks" Subject: MtMan-List: forest fires Date: 06 Nov 2002 17:53:23 -0700 Hello List, An interesting article by Ned Eddins about this year's forest fires is presented on the following web site: www.mountainsofstone.com He is soliciting comments and support for proper care and feeding of same. This is not a "tree hugger" article. Steve ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 06 Nov 2002 20:20:25 EST Were I going to pay 700 for a pedersoli repro, I'd ante up the extra hundred for a semi-custom from TVM or similar gunmaker. Just my preference, though. -c.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 06 Nov 2002 21:22:46 -0500 (EST) Looked over Tennessee Valley's site in there Tulle section they mention two types of Tulle's type C(1680 to 1730) and type D(1730 to 1765) of which theres is a type D are there any makers who do the earlier type C ? There Trade gun was the 19th Cen. North West style which is a bit late for me as I'm more interested in the early 17th cen. but i did like there Tulle! Your Servant, M.A.Smith ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 06 Nov 2002 19:44:41 -0700 (MST) TVM told me there was a 12 month wait on their rifles right now, I don't know about their trade guns. TVM will not sell an in-the-white gun without a vent liner. Thats were my talk with them ended. I thought a guy could get a custom gun the way he wanted. I know these gun guys are busy but 12 month's is a long time to wait. They're building a gun not a pyramid! Maybe they're taking on too many customers or too many 4 day weekends. Danny Caywood was much nicer to talk to and said he could have it done in a much more reasonable 6-8 weeks. Beaverboy > Looked over Tennessee Valley's site in there Tulle section they mention > two types of Tulle's > type C(1680 to 1730) and type D(1730 to 1765) of which theres is a type > D are there any makers who do the earlier type C ? There Trade gun was > the 19th Cen. North West > style which is a bit late for me as I'm more interested in the early > 17th cen. but i did like there Tulle! > > Your Servant, > M.A.Smith > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 06 Nov 2002 21:15:15 -0600 My trade gun was made by Taylor Anderson of Granbury, Texas fortcomanche@yahoo.com and I couldn't be more pleased. His work is exceptional and he will make you a gun just about any way you want it. The .62 he made for me is of outstanding quality and was delivered in a timely manner for a reasonable price. What else do you want? Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:44 PM > TVM told me there was a 12 month wait on their rifles right now, I don't > know about their trade guns. TVM will not sell an in-the-white gun without > a vent liner. Thats were my talk with them ended. I thought a guy could > get a custom gun the way he wanted. > I know these gun guys are busy but 12 month's is a long time to > wait. They're building a gun not a pyramid! Maybe they're taking on too > many customers or too many 4 day weekends. > Danny Caywood was much nicer to talk to and said he could have it > done in a much more reasonable 6-8 weeks. > Beaverboy > > Looked over Tennessee Valley's site in there Tulle section they mention > > two types of Tulle's > > type C(1680 to 1730) and type D(1730 to 1765) of which theres is a type > > D are there any makers who do the earlier type C ? There Trade gun was > > the 19th Cen. North West > > style which is a bit late for me as I'm more interested in the early > > 17th cen. but i did like there Tulle! > > > > Your Servant, > > M.A.Smith > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 07 Nov 2002 14:03:58 +0000 I've dealt with and owned guns from TVM and they do great work! I never had a 12 month wait but they may be pretty busy nowadays. 12 months is pretty close give or take a few months, to what most custom builders I talked with quoted- hey, I ordered a GOOD oak canteen in September and won't get it until June! and regarding Taylor Anderson's guns- excellent craftsmanship- never had one of his but I saw a 1817 common rifle he did and it looked like a WELL kept original, beautiful! I have to agree with an earlier posting, why pay $700 for a mass produced gun when you can get a custom for just alittle more? Touch hole liners- can't comment on that BUT are you complaining that your barrel isn't hand forged? What about the stock- was it cut down, cut out and finished COMPLETELY by hand? Are ALL of your clothes made from handwoven fabric or hand tanned leather using hand spun thread, hand stitched buttonholes, hand dyed to whatever color it is now? I can understand the interest in being totally authentic but there are some things I think we can deal with... maybe I'm wrong. Good luck with the hunt for that perfect trade gun! Dios, Libertad y Tejas Scott McMahon S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." General Ethan Allen Hitchcock n.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "PoorBoy" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 07 Nov 2002 07:00:47 -0800 > I've dealt with and owned guns from TVM and they do great work! I never had a 12 month wait but they may be pretty busy nowadays. < Klahowya Friends; I agree with the consensus that for a few dollars more get the semi-custom gun. I would however offer a caution here. I have a very limited exposure to TVM products, having held and shot one that was purchased as a completed rifle and Loved it. On the other hand a very close friend of mine recently received his TVM after a 12 month wait "in the white". Now, since I was not a part of the ordering process, I can not vouch for what exactly he ordered. That being said I know he paid close to $800, and when the weapon came the but plate and trigger guard were still in the rough, and the stock did require sanding and finishing. When I say in the rough I mean they still had casting lugs. Again, this may have been explained to him in the ordering process, but I know it is not what he expected. For that kind of money, he expected and I know I would too, a completed rifle that simply needed to be stained and browned. If I wanted to do the metal finishing and wood shaping myself I would purchase a kit, pay the money to have the inletting done that I might feel was too challenging, and do the rest myself. It would probably cost less and I could claim to have completed the kit myself. Please don't get me wrong, The limited work that TVM has done and I have handled is good quality, I would just caution be sure you know what you are getting when you buy in the white, and weigh out the extra cost of the finished gun verses the amount of work left to be done. I am now expert, and no klutz either, but I do know if I paid $800 for a rifle and then klutz it up in the home finishing I would be VERY disappointed. Know what your are getting for your money. PoorBoy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "PoorBoy" Subject: MtMan-List: Wood Canteens Date: 07 Nov 2002 07:11:05 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C2862C.D6AE10D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Klahowya Friends, I am curious about the applicable time periods for the flat sided, stave = sided wooded canteens, often seen as an accoutrement for the War Between = the States. I currently utilize a leather/pitched canteen and a copper = kidney style canteen. I portray a trapper of the pre-1840 vintage. My = wife however, would like something a little less rustic. She has = located a wooden canteen on a CW sutlers site that claims a plastic = bladder and a metal mouth piece. The site does not have a photo and I = have requested their catalog for a small remittance. I am just not sure = of the appropriateness of this style of canteen for such an early = portrayal. Any advice always welcome. PoorBoy ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C2862C.D6AE10D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Klahowya Friends,

I am curious about the applicable time = periods for=20 the flat sided, stave sided wooded canteens, often seen as an = accoutrement for=20 the War Between the States. I currently utilize a leather/pitched = canteen=20 and a copper kidney style canteen. I portray a trapper of the = pre-1840=20 vintage. My wife however, would like something a little less = rustic. =20 She has located a wooden canteen on a CW sutlers site that claims a = plastic=20 bladder and a metal mouth piece. The site does not have a photo = and I have=20 requested their catalog for a small remittance. I am just not sure = of the=20 appropriateness of this style of canteen for such an early = portrayal. Any=20 advice always welcome.

PoorBoy

------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C2862C.D6AE10D0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 07 Nov 2002 08:12:48 -0700 (MST) Scott, They're building a simple trade gun not painting the Sistine Chapel Ceiling. 12 month's is too long to wait for anything, in my humble opinion. If my company made people wait 12 months for a project we'd be out of business. Perhaps they've been putting us off for so long that we are getting used to such long waits. If someone tells you 12 months in the gun business better figure on 16 months. I cannot believe there is that big of a demand for custom made muzzleloaders nowadays. I tell you they just need to work 40 hours a week like the rest of us. Vent liners just stick out and are not needed, in my opinion. You would think in those 12 months they make a guy wait they'd be able to cone the inside of the vent hole like they did in the old days with out power tools. We can justify modern stuff all we want, I was just stating my humble opinion on unneeded and unhistorical vent liners. You can spot the silver rings a mile away. I would never have one, ever. Fur companys of old would order hundreds of guns at a time. I know they didn't have to wait nearly as long. And those gunsmith's had it a lot tougher. If I could afford a hand forged barrel and gun, I'd have one. When I win the lottery! Sincerely, Beaverboy > I've dealt with and owned guns from TVM and they do great work! I never > had a 12 month wait but they may be pretty busy nowadays. 12 months is > pretty close give or take a few months, to what most custom builders I > talked with quoted- hey, I ordered a GOOD oak canteen in September and > won't get it until June! and regarding Taylor Anderson's guns- > excellent craftsmanship- never had one of his but I saw a 1817 common > rifle he did and it looked like a WELL kept original, beautiful! I > have to agree with an earlier posting, why pay $700 for a mass > produced gun when you can get a custom for just alittle more? Touch > hole liners- can't comment on that BUT are you complaining that your > barrel isn't hand forged? What about the stock- was it cut down, cut > out and finished COMPLETELY by hand? Are ALL of your clothes made from > handwoven fabric or hand tanned leather using hand spun thread, hand > stitched buttonholes, hand dyed to whatever color it is now? I can > understand the interest in being totally authentic but there are some > things I think we can deal with... maybe I'm wrong. Good luck with the > hunt for that perfect trade gun! > > Dios, Libertad y Tejas > Scott McMahon > S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. > > "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not > any > sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has > one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and > every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." > General Ethan Allen Hitchcock > n.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "PoorBoy" Subject: MtMan-List: Wood Canteens Date: 07 Nov 2002 07:41:32 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C28631.177F8DB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, that should have read flat sided round canteens with a = circumference of staves. PoorBoy ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C28631.177F8DB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry, that should have read flat sided = round=20 canteens with a circumference of staves.

PoorBoy

------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C28631.177F8DB0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wood Canteens Date: 07 Nov 2002 11:41:38 -0500 PoorBoy, Wooden canteens were used during the Rev. War, being issued to the regulars. In last Book of Buckskinning Rex Allen Norman mentions the use of wood canteens, he also has great information in his "1837 Sketch Book of the Western Fur Trade", in a few trade list a few inventories include a canteen, few but they are listed. I would me more than happy to try and help out, just email me off-list, Frank Sablan Midland, Texas ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee Newbill" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wood Canteens Date: 07 Nov 2002 08:49:50 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_013A_01C2863A.A23A2560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yo Poorboy You need to come out and play in the woods!! On canteens, I am digging deep into my references at the moment, and = can't find the one I'm after, but.... Wooden canteens as you describe (minus bladder and metal spout) were = issued to soldiers at the time of Lewis and Clark.... I'm thinking the = 1st US Infantry Regiment carried them (1802) and was described as = "Canteen, wood painted red, with white letters "U.S." I haven't seen references to exact size. Regards Lee Newbill of North Idaho AMM# 1821 www.hogheavenmuzzleloaders.com users.potlatch.com/bluethistle www.mountaintoptradingco.com/ =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: PoorBoy=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 7:41 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Wood Canteens Sorry, that should have read flat sided round canteens with a = circumference of staves. PoorBoy ------=_NextPart_000_013A_01C2863A.A23A2560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yo Poorboy

You need to come out and play in the=20 woods!!

On canteens, I am digging deep into my = references=20 at the moment, and can't find the one I'm after, but....

Wooden canteens as you describe (minus = bladder and=20 metal spout) were issued to soldiers at the time of Lewis and = Clark.... I'm=20 thinking the 1st US Infantry Regiment carried them (1802) and was = described as=20 "Canteen, wood=20 painted red, with white letters =93U.S.=94

I = haven't seen=20 references to exact size.

Regards

Lee Newbill of North Idaho
AMM#=20 1821

www.hogheavenmuzzleloaders= .com
users.potlatch.com/bluethi= stle
www.mountaintoptradingco.co= m/

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 PoorBoy

To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20

Sent: Thursday, November 07, = 2002 7:41=20 AM

Subject: MtMan-List: Wood = Canteens

Sorry, that should have read flat = sided round=20 canteens with a circumference of staves.

PoorBoy

------=_NextPart_000_013A_01C2863A.A23A2560-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Branson Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 07 Nov 2002 12:32:17 -0800 (PST) --0-1705792878-1036701137=:63373 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Normally I don't reply to the various articles I read in this web site as I usually don't have time. this particular letter caused me to want to respond to "Beaver Boy". Sir, I have been building custom rifles since 1972, I have been wearing buckskins since 1973. I'm just retiring from a lifetime of teaching high school history. I currently have 5 rifle orders on the bench waiting to be completed. The oldest is 1.5 years old. I have already built and delivered 7 rifles and 4 pistols all flintlock some with carving all with engraving Since last spring. My prices are higher than ever. Yet I have more orders than ever before. I used to build a rifle a month in the 1970s. Now it takes 5 weeks of working 8-10 hours per day to build a rifle. I use only a hand held electric drill. All other tools are hand tools. I build them The old fashioned way. I have always felt that if you want a rifle that looks like a gun from the 18-19 century then build it with 18th century tools and techniques. It takes a long time to build guns in such a manner. Especially if I want to charge even close to what it costs in labor and materials for such a gun. I figure with a skill like mine I'm worth at least $50-75 per hour. My plumber and car mechanic make more and have less skill with tools. I can hand file a hinge with no gaps. My plumber can't do that. At a cost of 50-75 per hour I end up usually charging between 3-5 thousand dollars per rifle. Yes that sounds like a lot but it is not. Not when people make 35-75 thousand per year and up. I know a factory worker in Ohio who works with his wife and the two of them together make 140,000. per year. Houses in Colorado sell on the average for 150-200 thousand dollars. New trucks cost 30+ per vehicle. I hate to be critical but a 4500 dollar rifle at modern wages is a lot less than a 20 dollar rifle was to a farmer in 1810 who only made 80 dollars per year. Everyone is free to shoot what ever they want but if you want a fine rifle that shoots plumb center, and you want it to look exactly like the ones actually carried by the trappers and you want it to be ast dependable as thy're guns were then you should order a fine hand made rifle and expect to wait anywhere from 12 -24 months for it. I have been waiting on a custom barrel from a famous maker for 14 months now and I know he like me, works every day all day clear up into the evening. One should walk a mile in my moccasins before one throws stones. This most recent rifle I'm finishing this week I worked on for the last 2 evenings clear until 9:30pm on + all day. have a good day. beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:Scott, They're building a simple trade gun not painting the Sistine Chapel Ceiling. 12 month's is too long to wait for anything, in my humble opinion. If my company made people wait 12 months for a project we'd be out of business. Perhaps they've been putting us off for so long that we are getting used to such long waits. If someone tells you 12 months in the gun business better figure on 16 months. I cannot believe there is that big of a demand for custom made muzzleloaders nowadays. I tell you they just need to work 40 hours a week like the rest of us. Vent liners just stick out and are not needed, in my opinion. You would think in those 12 months they make a guy wait they'd be able to cone the inside of the vent hole like they did in the old days with out power tools. We can justify modern stuff all we want, I was just stating my humble opinion on unneeded and unhistorical vent liners. You can spot the silver rings a mile away. I would never have one, ever. Fur companys of old would order hundreds of guns at a time. I know they didn't have to wait nearly as long. And those gunsmith's had it a lot tougher. If I could afford a hand forged barrel and gun, I'd have one. When I win the lottery! Sincerely, Beaverboy > I've dealt with and owned guns from TVM and they do great work! I never > had a 12 month wait but they may be pretty busy nowadays. 12 months is > pretty close give or take a few months, to what most custom builders I > talked with quoted- hey, I ordered a GOOD oak canteen in September and > won't get it until June! and regarding Taylor Anderson's guns- > excellent craftsmanship- never had one of his but I saw a 1817 common > rifle he did and it looked like a WELL kept original, beautiful! I > have to agree with an earlier posting, why pay $700 for a mass > produced gun when you can get a custom for just alittle more? Touch > hole liners- can't comment on that BUT are you complaining that your > barrel isn't hand forged? What about the stock- was it cut down, cut > out and finished COMPLETELY by hand? Are ALL of your clothes made from > handwoven fabric or hand tanned leather using hand spun thread, hand > stitched buttonholes, hand dyed to whatever color it is now? I can > understand the interest in being totally authentic but there are some > things I think we can deal with... maybe I'm wrong. Good luck with the > hunt for that perfect trade gun! > > Dios, Libertad y Tejas > Scott McMahon > S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. > > "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not > any > sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has > one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and > every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." > General Ethan Allen Hitchcock > n.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD --0-1705792878-1036701137=:63373 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Normally I don't reply to the various articles I read in this web site as I usually don't have time. this particular letter caused me to want to respond to "Beaver Boy". Sir, I have been building custom rifles since 1972, I have been wearing buckskins since 1973. I'm just retiring from a lifetime of teaching high school history. I currently have 5 rifle orders on the bench waiting to be completed. The oldest is 1.5 years old. I have already built and delivered 7 rifles and 4 pistols all flintlock some with carving all with engraving Since last spring. My prices are higher than ever. Yet I have more orders than ever before. I used to build a rifle a month in the 1970s. Now it takes 5 weeks of working 8-10 hours per day to build a rifle. I use only a hand held electric drill. All other tools are hand tools. I build them The old fashioned way. I have always felt that if you want a rifle that looks like a gun from the 18-19 century then build it with 18th century tools and techniques. It takes a long time to build guns in such a manner. Especially if I want to charge even close to what it costs in labor and materials for such a gun. I figure with a skill like mine I'm worth at least $50-75 per hour. My plumber and car mechanic make more and have less skill with tools. I can hand file a hinge with no gaps. My plumber can't do that. At a cost of 50-75 per hour I end up usually charging between 3-5 thousand dollars per rifle. Yes that sounds like a lot but it is not. Not when people make 35-75 thousand per year and up. I know a factory worker in Ohio who works with his wife and the two of them together make 140,000. per year. Houses in Colorado sell on the average for 150-200 thousand dollars. New trucks cost 30+ per vehicle. I hate to be critical but a 4500 dollar rifle at modern wages is a lot less than a 20 dollar rifle was to a farmer in 1810 who only made 80 dollars per year. Everyone is free to shoot what ever they want but if you want a fine rifle that shoots plumb center, and you want it to look exactly like the ones actually carried by the trappers and you want it to be ast dependable as thy're guns were then you should order a fine hand made rifle and expect to wait anywhere from 12 -24 months for it. I have been waiting on a custom barrel from a famous maker for 14 months now and I know he like me, works every day all day clear up into the evening. One should walk a mile in my moccasins before one throws stones. This most recent rifle I'm finishing this week I worked on for the last 2 evenings clear until 9:30pm on + all day. have a good day.
beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:
Scott,
They're building a simple trade gun not painting the Sistine Chapel
Ceiling. 12 month's is too long to wait for anything, in my humble
opinion. If my company made people wait 12 months for a project we'd be
out of business. Perhaps they've been putting us off for so long that we
are getting used to such long waits. If someone tells you 12 months in the
gun business better figure on 16 months. I cannot believe there is that
big of a demand for custom made muzzleloaders nowadays. I tell you they
just need to work 40 hours a week like the rest of us.
Vent liners just stick out and are not needed, in my opinion. You
would think in those 12 months they make a guy wait they'd be able to cone
the inside of the vent hole like they did in the old days with out power
tools. We can justify modern stuff all we want, I was just stating my
humble opinion on unneeded and unhistorical vent liners. You can spot the
silver rings a mile away. I would never have one, ever.
Fur companys of old would order hundreds of guns at a time. I know
they didn't have to wait nearly as long. And those gunsmith's had it a lot
tougher.
If I could afford a hand forged barrel and gun, I'd have one. When I
win the lottery!
Sincerely,
Beaverboy

> I've dealt with and owned guns from TVM and they do great work! I never
> had a 12 month wait but they may be pretty busy nowadays. 12 months is
> pretty close give or take a few months, to what most custom builders I
> talked with quoted- hey, I ordered a GOOD oak canteen in September and
> won't get it until June! and regarding Taylor Anderson's guns-
> excellent craftsmanship- never had one of his but I saw a 1817 common
> rifle he did and it looked like a WELL kept original, beautiful! I
> have to agree with an earlier posting, why pay $700 for a mass
> produced gun when you can get a custom for just alittle more? Touch
> hole liners- can't comment on that BUT are you complaining that your
> barrel isn't hand forged? What about the stock- was it cut down, cut
> out and finished COMPLETELY by hand? Are ALL of your clothes made from
> handwoven fabric or hand tanned leather using hand spun thread, hand
> stitched buttonholes, hand dyed to whatever color it is now? I can
> understand the interest in being totally authentic but there are some
> things I think we can deal with... maybe I'm wrong. Good luck with the
> hunt for that perfect trade gun!
>
> Dios, Libertad y Tejas
> Scott McMahon
> S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co.
>
> "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten.
Not
> any
> sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has
> one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and
> every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them."
> General Ethan Allen Hitchcock
> n.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
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>
> ----------------------
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Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD --0-1705792878-1036701137=:63373-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Brown" Subject: MtMan-List: Beaverboy and the long wait Date: 07 Nov 2002 16:23:15 -0500 I have to agree with Mr. Branson. You think it's easy Beaverboy, try building one. Even in "kit" form there's a hell of a lot of work left to be done. Ever mortise a lock? Ever try to get a rear ramrod thimble just right? Ever inlet a fancy butt plate? I'm just beginning to build and sell a few guns, and I can see Branson is right. If you want to make even a modest salary at it, you're going to have to charge a few thou per gun. The good semi custom makers have whittled the process down to where they have to survive on volume, and still the guns are pushing $1,000 or better in finished form. Now you want to complain about having to wait? Well, start looking for a small volume, self-employed builder and see what he says about price. Ya can't have it both ways. Sincerely, Two Crows P.S. I'd like to hear an explanation of how to cone a touch hole from inside the barrel. Mike Branson wrote: Normally I don't reply to the various articles I read in this web site as I usually don't have time. this particular letter caused me to want to respond to "Beaver Boy". Sir, I have been building custom rifles since 1972, I have been wearing buckskins since 1973. I'm just retiring from a lifetime of teaching high school history. I currently have 5 rifle orders on the bench waiting to be completed. The oldest is 1.5 years old. I have already built and delivered 7 rifles and 4 pistols all flintlock some with carving all with engraving Since last spring. My prices are higher than ever. Yet I have more orders than ever before. I used to build a rifle a month in the 1970s. Now it takes 5 weeks of working 8-10 hours per day to build a rifle. I use only a hand held electric drill. All other tools are hand tools. I build them The old fashioned way. I have always felt that if you want a rifle that looks like a gun from the 18-19 century then build it with 18th century tools and techniques. It takes a long time to build guns in such a manner. Especially if I want to charge even close to what it costs in labor and materials for such a gun. I figure with a skill like mine I'm worth at least $50-75 per hour. My plumber and car mechanic make more and have less skill with tools. I can hand file a hinge with no gaps. My plumber can't do that. At a cost of 50-75 per hour I end up usually charging between 3-5 thousand dollars per rifle. Yes that sounds like a lot but it is not. Not when people make 35-75 thousand per year and up. I know a factory worker in Ohio who works with his wife and the two of them together make 140,000. per year. Houses in Colorado sell on the average for 150-200 thousand dollars. New trucks cost 30+ per vehicle. I hate to be critical but a 4500 dollar rifle at modern wages is a lot less than a 20 dollar rifle was to a farmer in 1810 who only made 80 dollars per year. Everyone is free to shoot what ever they want but if you want a fine rifle that shoots plumb center, and you want it to look exactly like the ones actually carried by the trappers and you want it to be ast dependable as thy're guns were then you should order a fine hand made rifle and expect to wait anywhere from 12 -24 months for it. I have been waiting on a custom barrel from a famous maker for 14 months now and I know he like me, works every day all day clear up into the evening. One should walk a mile in my moccasins before one throws stones. This most recent rifle I'm finishing this week I worked on for the last 2 evenings clear until 9:30pm on + all day. have a good day. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: WAS: Trade Musket NOW Tulle style guns Date: 07 Nov 2002 16:26:10 EST The English Trade guns you refer to will look like a tulle. That was done on purpose b/c the natives trusted that style of gun. Hey, when in business, go with what works! -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 07 Nov 2002 16:28:54 EST --part1_103.1ecbe1ed.2afc3516_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Normally I don't reply to the various articles I read in this web site as I usually don't have time. this particular >letter caused me to want to respond to "Beaver Boy". >Now it takes 5 weeks of working 8-10 hours per day to build a rifle. I use only a hand held electric drill. All >other tools are hand tools. I build them The old fashioned way. >One should walk a mile in my moccasins before one throws stones. Mike, I'm glad you responded. Some folks are bigger in the opinion area than education area. Everyone thinks that these gunmakers have big factories with lots of employees and they make gross overgeneralizations. You have well stated what it takes to make a scratch gun. Matt and Toni from TVM are good friends of mine. They work out of a 2 car garage, the front half being the store and the back half being the shop. They have 2 builders, a filer, and a finisher. Every one of their guns starts with a chunk of wood. Matt makes all the stocks....they don't use precarved ones. They chisel away at wood like everyone else. Each gun is made to the customers specs. You can choose the LOP and drop, what components you want on the gun, type of finish, etc. They work 12 hours days, and make over 600 guns a year, that's about 3 guns per day for a 5 day work week. When you consider the time required to build a gun and raw parts running from $500-$700 per gun, their guns, beginning priced at $800, are one of the best bargains out there............and by folks who are working their butts off to make a living. Dave Kanger --part1_103.1ecbe1ed.2afc3516_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Normally I don't reply to the various articles I read in this web site as I usually don't have time. this particular >letter caused me to want to respond to "Beaver Boy".
>Now it takes 5 weeks of working 8-10 hours per day to build a rifle. I use only a hand held electric drill. All >other tools are hand tools. I build them The old fashioned way.
>One should walk a mile in my moccasins before one throws stones.

Mike,
I'm glad you responded. Some folks are bigger in the opinion area than education area.
Everyone thinks that these gunmakers have big factories with lots of employees and they make gross overgeneralizations. You have well stated what it takes to make a scratch gun.

Matt and Toni from TVM are good friends of mine. They work out of a 2 car garage, the front half being the store and the back half being the shop. They have 2 builders, a filer, and a finisher. Every one of their guns starts with a chunk of wood. Matt makes all the stocks....they don't use precarved ones. They chisel away at wood like everyone else. Each gun is made to the customers specs. You can choose the LOP and drop, what components you want on the gun, type of finish, etc. They work 12 hours days, and make over 600 guns a year, that's about 3 guns per day for a 5 day work week. When you consider the time required to build a gun and raw parts running from $500-$700 per gun, their guns, beginning priced at $800, are one of the best bargains out there............and by folks who are working their butts off to make a living.

Dave Kanger --part1_103.1ecbe1ed.2afc3516_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 07 Nov 2002 16:32:10 EST A comment was made from someone about TVM and touchhole liners vs. no liner.. This was a reply. << Touch hole liners- can't comment on that BUT are you complaining that your barrel isn't hand forged? >> TVM will use whatever barrel you are dying to have on your gun, but their barrels are handforged - at least that is what Toni says to me. Guns are made on first-come first-serve basis. I paid mine off early...didn't matter. Offered to pay extra - didn't matter. Toni says she and Matt just will not let a gun go that they are not satisfied with. Guess that makes sense if you stand by your product like they do - have it right going out and that makes for little in the returns dept. I am getting a Tulle from them. Cost with shipping and extra 2" barrel length...$830. Wait. 11 months and change. Worth it? From what I have seen of every other TVM gun, I am betting on it. -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: gun waiting Date: 07 Nov 2002 15:37:11 -0600 Beaverboy said, <12 month's is too long to wait for anything> Not from a good custom gun builder who is not in the business full-time. Some guys build only a couple a year and spend the rest of their time enjoying life. But from a factory like TVM, that definately is excessive by about eleven months. Its your right to not like vent liners but as to their being "unhistorical" there were a lot of guns from Europe and built here by immigrants that utilized liners, often of platinum or gold to prevent burn-out. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, AR http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: custom rifles Date: 07 Nov 2002 15:45:37 -0600 Beaverboy also said, That sure is an interesting conversation opener. I would love to know the answer. As a percentage of the U.S. population, us traditionalists are a teensy-weeny tiny number. But that total number might be impressive. I dunno. Mebbe the whole country has not been overrun by those who buy their 'muzzle loaders' in bubble wrap packages off the shelf at Discount World. The membership of NMLRA has been static for quite a few years but other smaller reenactment type organizations seem to be thriving, if not growing. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, AR http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 07 Nov 2002 17:11:15 EST > A comment was made from someone about TVM and touchhole liners vs. no liner.. > This was a reply. > << Touch hole liners- can't comment on that BUT are you > complaining that your barrel isn't hand forged? >> J. Manton is credited as being the first to use a "platinum" touch hole liner in 1805. There are numerous historical references in the account books of gunsmiths to touch holes being rebushed. To see a period tool and explanation of how barrels were internally coned go to: http://members.aol.com/illinewek/faqs/conedhole.htm > TVM will use whatever barrel you are dying to have on your gun, but their > barrels are handforged - at least that is what Toni says to me. I think you misunderstood her. They ain't and I don't think she told you that. To my knowledge Eric Kettenburg, the Houses and the gunsmiths at Colonial Williamsburg are the only ones who offer hand forged barrels today. And you will pay dearly for them. > Guns are made on first-come first-serve basis. I paid mine off > early...didn't matter. Offered to pay extra - didn't matter. Guns are done on a first come, first served basis. They travel to the indoor trade shows in the spring and go to Friendship and Ft. Bridger, among others. They may take 50-100 orders for guns at each show. To think they can complete them in a month, as stated by someone else, is ludicrous. It don't take them that long to build a gun, it just takes time until your turn comes up in the queue. Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 07 Nov 2002 22:23:10 +0000 J. Manton is credited as being the first to use a "platinum" touch hole liner in 1805.� There are numerous historical references in the account books of gunsmiths to touch holes being rebushed. Sure glad to hear that... I've got a dbl brl flinter in the Manton style(least that's what I thought it was) that has "platinum" liners in it. Hate to trash it just because the touch holes were wrong... you saved it from the garbage heap with that comment! Dios, Libertad y Tejas Scott McMahon S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." General Ethan Allen Hitchcock _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: windwalker Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaverboy and the long wait Date: 07 Nov 2002 13:54:28 -0600 On Thursday 07 November 2002 03:23 pm, David Brown wrote: > I have to agree with Mr. Branson. You think it's easy Beaverboy, try > building one. Even in "kit" form there's a hell of a lot of work left t= o be > done. Ever mortise a lock? Ever try to get a rear ramrod thimble just > right? Ever inlet a fancy butt plate? I'm just beginning to build and s= ell > a few guns, and I can see Branson is right. If you want to make even a > modest salary at it, you're going to have to charge a few thou per gun. > > The good semi custom makers have whittled the process down to where the= y > have to survive on volume, and still the guns are pushing $1,000 or bet= ter > in finished form. Now you want to complain about having to wait? Well, > start looking for a small volume, self-employed builder and see what he > says about price. > > Ya can't have it both ways. > > In the eary days of ML 50,s 60,s.. A One year wait was nothing.. Cost of $2000 from Premium makers was the norm. Even getting a Bill Large Barrel could have a wait of 6-8 months And Bills prices were based on his whim for the day.. {I know I worked for him} With the advent of popularity of Turner Kirklands "kit" guns prices star= ted=20 to drop. Is a Premier Makes gun Worth say $2800 and 12 month wait?? Hell Yes! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wahkahchim@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 07 Nov 2002 21:06:32 EST
What's the TVM website? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Les Chaffin Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 07 Nov 2002 19:11:58 -0700 the site is http://www.avsia.com/tvm/garner.htm Wahkahchim@aol.com wrote: >
What's the TVM website? > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canoe Gun Date: 07 Nov 2002 21:23:11 EST In a message dated 11/6/02 11:36:51 AM, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: << A friend of mine recently found a length of trade gun barrel along the banks of the Teton River here in Montana >> Beaverboy..... that sounds like the one Walt Foster showed me a while back in Billings... was that the one you saw??? I thought it was pretty darn neat too! Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clay J. Landry" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks Date: 07 Nov 2002 21:17:38 -0700 In the achieves of this list should be several posts that list quite a bit of documentation of trappers using socks-If I remember correctly the posts are under the title "socks and Mocs" Clay Landry Moorhead MT ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 11:25 PM > I am making a pair of new mocs and was wondering if the trappers wore > sock? I have not read anything that has said. What do you think? > > Les Chaffin > Green River, Wy > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Branson Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Socks Date: 07 Nov 2002 21:33:59 -0800 (PST) --0-1797134111-1036733639=:4441 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Concerning the comments about shooters and custom gun orders. Yes, the NMLRA membership is staying static which is good it means the organization is growing. Several years ago the NMLRA determined that the average length of time to stay a member was about 5-7 years. Which means every year some folks get bored and change hobbies. Which also means that every year new folks start joining and want to own a rifle. If the membership is static then we are gaining as many as we are losing. A lot of my customers are not members of any black powder organization. They are just gun collectors who collect antique guns, or they are folks who decided they wanted to own a flintlock long rifle. As far as the comments about how long it takes to build a fine hand made rifle. I can't speak for others. I work at it pretty hard and I don't have any employees. Just me, I do all the lock filing, polishing, inletting shaping and finish work. I personally feel that 11-12 months to wait on a rifle from a single maker like myself or from TVM is a good deal. If I attended all the shows TVM goes to and took orders I would be overwhelmed with work. I 'm very happy to keep the small number of orders I now have. I know another builder in Ohio who would prefer to go un-named who builds one rifle per month. I can build one about every 4-5 weeks. I think that is about the norm. I'm sure if I had a set up like some of the spanish shotgun makers like A&A then I could turn out guns faster. But I like things the way they are. I don't advertize but you might take a look at the CLA (Contemporary Long Rifle Association) Website. There are some mighty fine guns for sale there from some very good builders. Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD --0-1797134111-1036733639=:4441 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Concerning the comments about shooters and custom gun orders. Yes, the NMLRA membership is staying static which is good it means the organization is growing. Several years ago the NMLRA determined that the average length of time to stay a member was about 5-7 years. Which means every year some folks get bored and change hobbies. Which also means that every year new folks start joining and want to own a rifle. If the membership is static then we are gaining as many as we are losing. A lot of my customers are not members of any black powder organization. They are just gun collectors who collect antique guns, or they are folks who decided they wanted to own a flintlock long rifle. As far as the comments about how long it takes to build a fine hand made rifle. I can't speak for others. I work at it pretty hard and I don't have any employees. Just me, I do all the lock filing, polishing, inletting shaping and finish work. I personally feel that 11-12 months to wait on a rifle from a single maker like myself or from TVM is a good deal. If I attended all the shows TVM goes to and took orders I would be overwhelmed with work. I 'm very happy to keep the small number of orders I now have. I know another builder in Ohio who would prefer to go un-named who builds one rifle per month. I can build one about every 4-5 weeks. I think that is about the norm. I'm sure if I had a set up like some of the spanish shotgun makers like A&A then I could turn out guns faster. But I like things the way they are. I don't advertize but you might take a look at the CLA (Contemporary Long Rifle Association) Website. There are some mighty fine guns for sale there from some very good builders.

Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD --0-1797134111-1036733639=:4441-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: MtMan-List: Tip's for Priming the Pan Date: 08 Nov 2002 08:32:57 -0500 (EST) I don't shoot my flintlock very often (not in over a year to my shame!!) as all my friend`s shoot capper's ! There was some good advice a year or so back in regards to priming I tried to find in Archive but can not access after Mar 2000! (Darn Webtv!) The jist of the tip was to prim the pan fuller on one side but I can't now remember was it fuller toward the touch hole or away? Can any one help ? Your Most Humble Servant, M.A.Smith Esq. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tip's for Priming the Pan Date: 08 Nov 2002 09:18:49 EST --part1_27.30dd27aa.2afd21c9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 8:34:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net writes: > fuller toward the > Keep the prime away from the touch hole so you do not fill the touch hole and then have it burn like a wick (which causes delays in ignition). You want the primer to ignite and flash a ball of fire threw the touch hole to ignite the main charge. And shame on you for bowing to peer pressure and shooting only your cap gun. Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes --part1_27.30dd27aa.2afd21c9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 8:34:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net writes:

fuller toward the
touch hole or away?

Keep the prime away from the touch hole so you do not fill the touch hole and then have it burn like a wick (which causes delays in ignition). You want the primer to ignite and flash a ball of fire threw the touch hole to ignite the main charge.

And shame on you for bowing to peer pressure and shooting only your cap gun.

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes --part1_27.30dd27aa.2afd21c9_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tip's for Priming the Pan Date: 08 Nov 2002 10:19:49 -0500 (EST) That was It !!! And yes Shame on Me! I'm going to shoot with the guy's this weekend and I wanted to make sure the old flinter go's boom!!!! Thank's ! Your Servant, M. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Brandl Subject: MtMan-List: buffalo hunt/shoot Date: 08 Nov 2002 09:18:34 -0700 just spoke with a client of ours, she is selling off her herd. These are really nice bulls and cow buffalo with darker black robes. For only $600 per cow, bulls are more, you can shoot the buffalo, no archery, blk powder OK, keep the meat, head and hide. She wants to have the herd gone before march. Best times for hair is Dec 1st to jan 15 maybe to the 31st. Call her if interested, if a group wants to come out, she will buy the drinks. Buffalo are in grass pasture not feedlot! Hilda Thomas - Bar X Ranch Near Powell Wyoming 307-645-3231 I am going up end of Nov or middle of Dec joe -- Please visit our web site @ New supply of full and half buffalo hides Lifetime cleaning and reconditioning Elk, deer, cow, buffalo rawhide available ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wood Canteens Date: 08 Nov 2002 11:09:35 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C28717.52569A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Poorboy=20 My take on canteens is this. When Jed crossed the desert to get back = from Cali and he had to take water back to one of his men who had laid = down to die, he carried the water in a kettle. In the notes AJ Miller = wrote that canteens were concidered feminate by the trappers. There are = mentions of canteens in lists but not in great number and the journals = which talk a lot about dry crossing do not mention canteens that I am = aware of. So here is my interpretion. If you want to be authentic don't care one. = However, I figure if you are going to be picky enough to not carry one = for authenticity sake you should not drink from someone elses either. = That means you will need to filter water on an as needed basis into your = cook gear. Being lazy and enjoying being hydrated, I personally am not willing to = do that. Having drank from plenty of enamal, copper, and tin canteens, = I don't believe they would be any less pleasing to your wife than = something that tastes like plastic and is simply covered by a = questionable verneer. Wynn Ormond =20 I am curious about the applicable time periods for the flat sided, = stave sided wooded canteens, often seen as an accoutrement for the War = Between the States. I currently utilize a leather/pitched canteen and a = copper kidney style canteen. I portray a trapper of the pre-1840 = vintage PoorBoy ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C28717.52569A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Poorboy

My take on canteens is this. When = Jed crossed=20 the desert to get back from Cali and he had to take water back to one of = his men=20 who had laid down to die, he carried the water in a kettle. In the = notes=20 AJ Miller wrote that canteens were concidered feminate by the=20 trappers.  There are mentions of canteens in lists but not in = great=20 number and the journals which talk a lot about dry crossing do = not mention=20 canteens that I am aware of.

So here is my interpretion. = If you want=20 to be authentic don't care one.  However, I figure if you are = going to=20 be picky enough to not carry one for authenticity sake you should not = drink from=20 someone elses either. That means you will need to filter water on = an as=20 needed basis into your cook gear.

Being lazy and enjoying being hydrated, = I=20 personally am not willing to do that.  Having drank from = plenty of=20 enamal, copper, and tin canteens, I don't believe they would be any = less=20 pleasing to your wife than something that tastes like plastic and is = simply=20 covered by a questionable verneer.

Wynn Ormond



I am curious about the applicable = time periods=20 for the flat sided, stave sided wooded canteens, often seen as an = accoutrement=20 for the War Between the States. I currently utilize a = leather/pitched=20 canteen and a copper kidney style canteen. I portray a trapper = of the=20 pre-1840 vintage

PoorBoy

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C28717.52569A00-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pedersoli Trade Musket Date: 08 Nov 2002 11:24:31 -0700 > > J. Manton is credited as being the first to use a "platinum" touch hole > liner > in 1805. There are numerous historical references in the account books of > gunsmiths to touch holes being rebushed. > > Sure glad to hear that... I've got a dbl brl flinter in the Manton > style(least that's what I thought it was) that has "platinum" liners in it. > Hate to trash it just because the touch holes were wrong... you saved it > from the garbage heap with that comment! > > Scott McMahon Scott I believe he is totally wrong about the touch hole thing. They are completely wrong on dbl brl flinters. I will send you the address for my garbage bump as soon as you like. Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wood Canteens Date: 08 Nov 2002 18:57:24 +0000 I am curious about the applicable time periods for the flat sided, stave sided wooded canteens, often seen as an accoutrement for the War Between the States. I currently utilize a leather/pitched canteen and a copper kidney style canteen. I portray a trapper of the pre-1840 vintage PoorBoy PoorBoy, if you want a GOOD wooden canteen then spend the extra money and get one from a competent cooper. Try 5 Rivers Chapmanry... they do good work but there's a long wait. there are a few other guys out there selling good canteens, Dixie used to cary a nice wooden one but don't know if they still have it or not. Stay away from the Townsend canteens... I have one and know a few other who have them and they've never held water worth a flip! Good luck with your canteen hunt. Dios, Libertad y Tejas Scott McMahon S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." General Ethan Allen Hitchcock _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Branson Subject: MtMan-List: touch hole liners Date: 08 Nov 2002 11:21:31 -0800 (PST) --0-360610173-1036783291=:96680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Touch hole liners are very old. Platinum and gold were the material of choice for english gunmakers. The following gun makers were using them in both dbl flint shot guns and dueling pistols: John Manton, Joe Manton, Henry Nock. Several others also. Touch hole liners were being used before General Ashley ever took a keel boat up the Missouri. Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD --0-360610173-1036783291=:96680 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Touch hole liners are very old. Platinum and gold were the material of choice for english gunmakers. The following gun makers were using them in both dbl flint shot guns and dueling pistols: John Manton, Joe Manton, Henry Nock. Several others also. Touch hole liners were being used before General Ashley ever took a keel boat up the Missouri.

Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD --0-360610173-1036783291=:96680-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wood Canteens Date: 08 Nov 2002 14:21:27 -0500 the following comes from a website of the 1812 marines, now it is not intended that this is the final say-so in the canteen subject, but it is intended to help date thier use, I am still searching my archives for further information to support thier existance and use. Frank Sablan Midland,Texas CANTEENS: There is only one documentation for canteens for Marine use. This is listed in an order filled for Lt. McKnight for use of Marines on board the ship of war " Delaware: 363, wooden canteens with linen straps, 363 painted knapsacks with straps". This order also indicates Marines were supplied with blankets out of their uniform allowance and that hammocks come from the Navy as issued to the whole ship's company. Marines' hammock numbers as well as mess numbers were the highest in the ship's company as they were issued hammock and assigned to mess last. The above order was filled at Philadelphia, PA on 7 December 1797. This order and this alone is the only indication of canteens for Marines is the documentation based on for the use of our canteens. They are painted red with Roman white letters USM. The straps are natural linen or cotton and not leather. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Chronister Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canoe Gun Date: 08 Nov 2002 15:12:25 -0700 I've tried to post a photo to the discussion site all day but it never comes through. Anybody know why? Can photos be posted to this site? Allen Chronister SWcushing@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/6/02 11:36:51 AM, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: > > << A friend of mine recently found a length of trade gun barrel along > > the banks of the Teton River here in Montana >> > > Beaverboy..... that sounds like the one Walt Foster showed me a while back in > Billings... was that the one you saw??? I thought it was pretty darn neat too! > > Magpie > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canoe Gun Date: 08 Nov 2002 17:29:16 EST In a message dated 11/8/02 2:15:01 PM, almont@mt.net writes: << I've tried to post a photo to the discussion site all day but it never comes through. >> Hi Allen, Noy sure why....but don't think you can post a picture on Dean's site. .....might have something to do with viruses. What I try to do is included an address that anyone can cut and paste to or in "hypertext" ...just double click, and it takes you there. I guess ya gotta have an isp that will let you do it though.... You have a jpg of the barrels??? Magpie db.jpg http://members.aol.com/swcushing/db.jpg ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Montana... Date: 08 Nov 2002 17:40:48 EST Hmmmm....seems to me that on this date in 1889, the Great State of Montana joined the Union. Happy Birthday Boys! Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: gun waiting Date: 08 Nov 2002 17:08:11 -0700 (MST) Frank, I've seen a lot of original flintlocks in museums and I mean a lot of them, and I have still not seen one with a vent liner. Coincedence? I don't think so. BB > Beaverboy said, > <12 month's is too long to wait for anything> > Not from a good custom gun builder who is not in the business > full-time. > Some guys build only a couple a year and spend the rest of their time > enjoying life. > But from a factory like TVM, that definately is excessive by about > eleven months. > Its your right to not like vent liners but as to their being > "unhistorical" there were a lot of guns from Europe and built here by > immigrants that utilized liners, often of platinum or gold to prevent > burn-out. > Frank G. Fusco > Mountain Home, AR > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canoe Gun Date: 08 Nov 2002 17:14:31 -0700 (MST) Magpie, It was actually my friends cousin who found the barrel. I don't know his cousins name however. I think the guy was from Great Falls though. I'm sure there's a lot of them out there though. Beaverboy > In a message dated 11/6/02 11:36:51 AM, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: > > << A friend of mine recently found a length of trade gun barrel along > > the banks of the Teton River here in Montana >> > > Beaverboy..... that sounds like the one Walt Foster showed me a while > back in Billings... was that the one you saw??? I thought it was > pretty darn neat too! > > Magpie > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Angela Gottfred" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canoe Gun Date: 08 Nov 2002 19:57:33 -0700 Allen Chronister almont@mt.net wrote: <> Most e-mail lists only allow text to be posted, because it keeps the bandwidth low and makes it impossible for viruses to be passed on wholesale, to all list members. You could post a picture to the Yahoo list I created to make a readily-searchable archive of this list; go to www.groups.yahoo.com/group/MtMan/join to join the group and then you can post pictures to the group's picture area. Anyone can join the MtMan list at Yahoo, and then use the Yahoo tools for interactive group bookmarks, files, pictures, and a calendar. And, of course, you can search all the archived digests from MtMan for things like socks. Your very humble & most obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: gun waiting Date: 08 Nov 2002 21:21:36 -0600 Frank, I've seen a lot of original flintlocks in museums and I mean a lot of them, and I have still not seen one with a vent liner. Coincedence? I don't think so. BB >> There were very few originals made with vent liners. Vent liners were only used on the very finest quality guns, Mantons, Nocks, Becks, and so forth. But most of the touch holes in guns without vent liners were huge by todays standards. Our guns usually have touch holes that measure roughly 1/16" to 5/64" where most of theirs were 3/32" to nearly 1/8". It takes a hole that big to get consistent ignition with only a hole drilled in the side of the barrel. Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: MtMan-List: The Jesuit Relations: Index Date: 09 Nov 2002 10:08:52 -0500 (EST) --WebTV-Mail-32121-164 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit This is very interesting with lots of ref. to clothing and equipage for you early fur trade folks!!! Y.M.O.S. M.A.Smith Click Below: --WebTV-Mail-32121-164 X-URL-Title: The Jesuit Relations: Index Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit http://puffin.creighton.edu/jesuit/relations/ --WebTV-Mail-32121-164-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: MtMan-List: Trade Gun Opinions Date: 09 Nov 2002 08:08:12 -0800 (PST) I have been reading the trade gun letters with some interest, and have a few opinions of my own to throw out there. I agree that $700 for a factory made trade gun seems high, though Pedersoli does make a good quality product, but as for it being like 15,000 others being a depriment weren't the originals all made as close to each other as possible? They were individualized by the owners after purchase. Of course if you can get a custom or semi custom gun for about the same money from a known maker it might shoot a bit better, and the pride that goes with owning such a gun has got to be worth something. Regarding touch hole liners, what would you do with a touch hole that was burned out-throw the gun away? It seems like a natural thing to repair it, and a liner is the quickest way to do that. Don't forget, these guns were used a lot more than most of us will ever use ours, and were of a much softer metal than the barrels used today. Just a couple of thoughts, take 'em or leave 'em. DOG __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "PoorBoy" Subject: MtMan-List: wood canteens Date: 09 Nov 2002 14:14:39 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C287FA.576B51A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Klahowya Friends; First, thank you to Frank, Lee, Wynn, and Scott for the responses. It = would appear that this wooden drum canteen, as well as the leather and = gourd styles did exist and would in fact be period correct. Since there = are also a few listed as getting to the mountains I would think them = appropriate. I agree that there are more references to using kettles = and stomachs as water containers than canteens for the early Rocky = Mountain Fur Trade. Therefore my conclusion is thus: I will continue = to use my leather canteen, I am going to make as similar one for my = wife and attempt to line it with a modern food safe resin instead of a = pitch lining, and see if this will work for my wife. If it does not = then the wooden drum canteen with plastic liner will be my next try. = There may not have been a lot of canteens in the Rockies 1790-1840, but = I know they are more correct than water filters, which we all should be = using. I have posted a photo of the wooden canteen with plastic liner = on Angela's yahoo board, for those of you who are interested. It is = available from Dennis Boettcher of Fair Oaks Sutler (540)972-7744 for = $44.95 plus shipping. PoorBoy ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C287FA.576B51A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Klahowya Friends;

First, thank you to Frank, Lee, Wynn, = and Scott for=20 the responses. It would appear that this wooden drum canteen, as = well as=20 the leather and gourd styles did exist and would in fact be period=20 correct. Since there are also a few listed as getting to the = mountains I=20 would think them appropriate. I agree that there are more = references to=20 using kettles and stomachs as water containers than canteens for the = early Rocky=20 Mountain Fur Trade. Therefore my conclusion is thus: I will = continue=20 to use my leather canteen, I am going to make as similar one for = my wife=20 and attempt to line it with a modern food safe resin instead of a pitch = lining,=20 and see if this will work for my wife. If it does not then the = wooden drum=20 canteen with plastic liner will be my next try. There may not have = been a=20 lot of canteens in the Rockies 1790-1840, but I know they are more = correct than=20 water filters, which we all should be using. I have posted a photo = of the=20 wooden canteen with plastic liner on Angela's yahoo board, for those of = you who=20 are interested. It is available from Dennis Boettcher of Fair Oaks = Sutler=20 (540)972-7744 for $44.95 plus shipping.

PoorBoy

------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C287FA.576B51A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "PoorBoy" Subject: MtMan-List: Fair Oaks Sutler Date: 09 Nov 2002 14:18:11 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C287FA.D5B26FD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Web page for Fair Oaks Sutler is: www.fairoakssutler.com PoorBoy ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C287FA.D5B26FD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Web page for Fair Oaks Sutler = is:

www.fairoakssutler.com<= /DIV>

PoorBoy

------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C287FA.D5B26FD0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Traphand@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trade Gun Opinions Date: 09 Nov 2002 19:03:37 EST --part1_11d.1a0e82f5.2afefc59_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could anyone on the list let me know if they've heard from Mike Pierce "Hawk" recently? Needed to get in touch with him by E-Mail, but things are bouncing back saying his mailbox is full. Anyone??????? Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com --part1_11d.1a0e82f5.2afefc59_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could anyone on the list let me know if they've heard from Mike Pierce
"Hawk" recently?     Needed to get in touch with him by E-Mail, but
things are bouncing back saying his mailbox is full.    Anyone???????

Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
Traphand@aol.com
--part1_11d.1a0e82f5.2afefc59_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trade Gun Opinions Date: 09 Nov 2002 20:40:39 -0500 I got an email from him abot 10 days ago... hopefully he is coming to W Va deer hunting in a couple of weeks or so. Haven't heard from him since then.. Regards, Ad Miller ----- Original Message ----- > Could anyone on the list let me know if they've heard from Mike Pierce > "Hawk" recently? Needed to get in touch with him by E-Mail, but > things are bouncing back saying his mailbox is full. Anyone??????? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trade Gun Opinions Date: 09 Nov 2002 22:41:16 -0600 I spoke with him on the phone a week or so ago, he was real busy getting ready for - tada -HUNTING SEASON. Bout now I reckon he's off dispatching various fauna. It is critically important product research he's doing. John... At 06:03 PM 11/9/02, you wrote: >Could anyone on the list let me know if they've heard from Mike Pierce >"Hawk" recently? Needed to get in touch with him by E-Mail, but >things are bouncing back saying his mailbox is full. Anyone??????? > >Traphand >Rick Petzoldt >Traphand@aol.com ========================================== John Adams, Second President of the United States: "You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe." These rights are enshrined in our precious Bill of Rights. Without them we are essentially slaves - powerless property of the state. ============================================= ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Chronister Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canoe Gun Date: 09 Nov 2002 17:55:05 -0700 Apparently this list does not allow posting of pictures, which is to bad. If anyone wants a photo of a Pawnee man carrying a cut down trade gun contact me and I'll forward it to you. Allen Chronister beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > Magpie, > It was actually my friends cousin who found the barrel. I don't know > his cousins name however. I think the guy was from Great Falls though. I'm > sure there's a lot of them out there though. > Beaverboy > > In a message dated 11/6/02 11:36:51 AM, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: > > > > << A friend of mine recently found a length of trade gun barrel along > > > > the banks of the Teton River here in Montana >> > > > > Beaverboy..... that sounds like the one Walt Foster showed me a while > > back in Billings... was that the one you saw??? I thought it was > > pretty darn neat too! > > > > Magpie > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Nov.11 Date: 11 Nov 2002 06:57:56 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0190_01C2894F.A9D38AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As we go through the day today, going where we wish, doing what we wish, = in total freedom, seek out a veteran and offer your thanks for that = person's service to our country. A peacetime vet who worked in a base = laundry in Kansas is as important to our freedom as are the Audie = Murphy's from the headlines. Freedom is not free, it is continuously = being bought for all of us by the efforts of thousands of soldiers, = sailors, marines and coast guard at their posts all around the world, = both now and in the past. Thanks gents and ladies. Thanks from the bottom of my heart. I'll = visit the cemetery today and thank my father personally. Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_0190_01C2894F.A9D38AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As we go through the day = today, going=20 where we wish, doing what we wish, in total freedom, seek out a veteran = and=20 offer your thanks for that person's service to our country. A = peacetime=20 vet who worked in a base laundry in Kansas is as important to our = freedom=20 as are the Audie Murphy's from the headlines. Freedom is not = free, it=20 is continuously being bought for all of us by the efforts of thousands = of=20 soldiers, sailors, marines and coast guard at their posts all around the = world,=20 both now and in the past.

Thanks gents and = ladies. Thanks=20 from the bottom of my heart. I'll visit the cemetery today and = thank my=20 father personally.

Lanney Ratcliff
lanneyratcliff@charter.net=
______________________________________________________________
Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays
------=_NextPart_000_0190_01C2894F.A9D38AB0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Petersen" Subject: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas Date: 11 Nov 2002 11:44:04 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C28977.A2A9DD70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am having a new horse Saddle made. For practical purposes, it will be a cutting saddle style. I would like to give it a �signature� which would be unique to either Indian or mountain man period look. Obviously I am mixing old with new, but I want something that works well, but has a specialness to it. Thanks. Thomas R Petersen ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C28977.A2A9DD70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am having a new horse Saddle made. For practical purposes, it = will be a cutting saddle style. I would like to give it a = “signature” which would be unique to either Indian or mountain man period look. Obviously I am = mixing old with new, but I want something that works well, but has a specialness to = it.

Thanks.

Thomas R Petersen

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C28977.A2A9DD70-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: windwalker Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas Date: 11 Nov 2002 09:56:18 -0600 On Monday 11 November 2002 01:44 pm, Thomas Petersen wrote: > I am having a new horse Saddle made. For practical purposes, it will be= a > cutting saddle style. I would like to give it a =93signature=94 which w= ould be > unique to either Indian or mountain man period look. Obviously I am mix= ing > old with new, but I want something that works well, but has a specialne= ss > to it. > > Thanks. > > Thomas R Petersen If your going to use it much think Mclellan ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas Date: 11 Nov 2002 16:24:58 -0600 Thomas R. Petersen Unless it has slick forks, a high cantle, and NO padding it will never look much of anything like a period saddle. Of course if you get all this it won't look much like a cutting saddle. It would be best to buy the saddle you need and if you need both get two. John... At 01:44 PM 11/11/02, you wrote: >I am having a new horse Saddle made. For practical purposes, it will be a >cutting saddle style. I would like to give it a signature which would be >unique to either Indian or mountain man period look. Obviously I am mixing >old with new, but I want something that works well, but has a specialness >to it. > >Thanks. > >Thomas R Petersen If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. john AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle": http://conner110.tripod.com/AMM-hunt.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas Date: 11 Nov 2002 16:15:24 -0700 Thomas Petersen wrote: > I am having a new horse Saddle made. For practical purposes, it will be a > cutting saddle style. I would like to give it a "signature" which would be > unique to either Indian or mountain man period look. Obviously I am mixing > old with new, but I want something that works well, but has a specialness > to it. Windwalker wrote: If your going to use it much think Mclellan I rode a Mclellan for about six months they are serviceable but man did I miss the horn. I personally believe that the RMFT did not put that buff robe or blanket on there for fun, I believe that without it they would be sitting on rawhide bars. If you want to put a mountaineer signiture on it leave of the seat. You can look at the saddles in Kurtz drawings on Deans site for some ideas of your own. They are just late from period but they show details that Miller did not. Also a crupper is very authentic and a breast coller not near so common. Indians saddles were not extremely close to a cutting saddle in any way I now of. Maybe you could take someones scalp and hang it off the horn, that would be authentic and a good conversation piece. :) Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: gun waiting Date: 11 Nov 2002 16:26:13 -0700 > >> There were very few originals made with vent > liners. Vent liners were only used on the very finest quality guns, > Mantons, Nocks, Becks, and so forth. But most of the touch holes in guns > without vent liners were huge by > todays standards. Our guns usually have touch holes that measure roughly > 1/16" > to 5/64" where most of theirs were 3/32" to nearly 1/8". It takes a hole > that big to get consistent ignition with only a hole drilled in the side of > the > barrel. > > Pendleton Is there a reason why we do not want a hole that big? Wynn Ormnond > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: gun waiting Date: 11 Nov 2002 18:12:00 -0600 Is there a reason why we do not want a hole that big? Wynn Ormnond >> Wynn, Most folks today expect match quality accuracy from their guns. The bigger touch hole tends to decrease breech pressures thus decreasing velocity which can hinder accuracy especially in guns with slow twist barrels. ( one in 56" to one in 66" or 72" ) Another bucket of worms is just how many of the originals had slow twist barrels ? A couple of Oldtimers who began playing with muzzleloaders in the post WWII days said that nearly all of the originals they had seen had barrels with a one in 48" twist. Given that these two guys worked for a leading antique gun dealer restoring guns, and handled virtually every type of gun you could name, it makes one wonder. Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nov.11 Date: 11 Nov 2002 19:15:19 EST --part1_83.236ebbc0.2b01a217_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all vets for the freedom we now enjoy. My father was from the small island of Guam. He lived there during the Japanese occupation. Soon after the liberation from Japanese control one way his family said thanks was for all the sons to join the U.S. military. Unfortunately he had to return to the island only to escort all of his brothers bodies back home. He instilled in my brother and I the love he had for the great country of ours and what they have fought for. I will soon go back home and visit his grave and say thanks again. Frank Sablan Midland,Texas --part1_83.236ebbc0.2b01a217_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all vets for the freedom we now enjoy. My father was from the small island of Guam. He lived there during the Japanese occupation. Soon after the liberation from Japanese control one way his family said thanks was for all the sons to join the U.S. military. Unfortunately he had to return to the island only to escort all of his brothers bodies back home. He instilled in my brother and I the love he had for the great country of ours and what they have fought for. I will soon go back home and visit his grave and say thanks again.

Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas --part1_83.236ebbc0.2b01a217_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "kc16" Subject: MtMan-List: Saddles for sale Date: 11 Nov 2002 18:11:23 -0800 Klohowya to the list, I haven't been on this list for a couple years now. This is not an advertisement for me...but another brother up in Idaho who has a couple Sante Fe saddles that he wants to sell. Here are the particulars and how to get ahold of him if you want. 2 New Sante Fe (Mexican) parade type saddles. Full rigged with spur straps, chest collar, bingle car bridal strap, thick pad, belly strap. $500 + shipping Contact: Tom Cornwall PO Box 851 Mogie Srpings, ID 83845 (208) 267-9418 Give him a call if any of you are interested. Curtis "Blood" Krouse #1651 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tip's for Priming the Pan Date: 11 Nov 2002 21:32:26 EST --part1_a7.29d9f10c.2b01c23a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 5:34:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net writes: > The jist of the tip was to prim the > pan fuller on one side but I can't now remember was it fuller toward the > touch hole or away? Away. If you get prime banked against the vent, it acts like a fuse & slows things down. Priming the outer end of the pan heavier seems to throw the flame into the vent -- goes "bang!" quicker. Nauga Mok --part1_a7.29d9f10c.2b01c23a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/8/02 5:34:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net writes:

The jist of the tip was to prim the
pan fuller on one side but I can't now remember was it fuller toward the
touch hole or away?

Away. If you get prime banked against the vent, it acts like a fuse & slows things down. Priming the outer end of the pan heavier seems to throw the flame into the vent -- goes "bang!" quicker.

Nauga Mok --part1_a7.29d9f10c.2b01c23a_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: manbear Subject: MtMan-List: Fort Bridger Print on Ebay Date: 12 Nov 2002 11:27:52 -0500 --------------9754D503A951FF172ADFE26A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I just came across this auction on Ebay for an old newspaper with a great print of Fort Bridger and thought someone here might be interested. Manbear http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=732446496 --------------9754D503A951FF172ADFE26A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All,
I just came across this auction on Ebay for an old newspaper with a great print of Fort Bridger and thought someone here might be interested.
Manbear
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=732446496 --------------9754D503A951FF172ADFE26A-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: MtMan-List: Re: vent liners Date: 12 Nov 2002 15:37:08 -0500 (EST) Was reading the "Complete Book of Firearms"by Sergio Masini and Rodolfo Rotasso ,they have a picture of an 18th cen. Italian hunting rifle on page 39 with the caption "Hunting rifle with Roman-style lock..Walnut stock,engraved silver furniture...Lock with gold touch hole..." Clearly a high end weapon and not the kind of thing generally carried by your average Frontier type still theres a vent liner dating back to the 18th cen. if anyones interested! Your servant as ever, M.A.Smith Esq. http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: vent liners Date: 12 Nov 2002 19:32:53 -0700 (MST) Dear List Dueling pistols, dbl flintlock shotguns, now fancy Italian rifles. This is what I said all along. The king and queen might have had one but Joe Schmoe didn't. I imagine Richard Harris (God rest his soul) had one in his rifle in "A Man Called Horse", he played a rich guy. If anyone has seen a regular gun in a museum with a vent liner I'd like to know. I might go and see it. I'm also beginning to doubt this "burned out flash hole" theory. I've had my fusee for 5 years now and shoot it a lot and the flash hole is as big and ugly as it's always been. I guess I'll find out in another 10 years if it burns out. I think the film "Gunsmiths of Willamsburg" has Wallace coning out the inside of the flash hole, doesn't it? I also think the film says it took him two months to make that rifle from scratch (hand forged barrel, hand rifled, hand forged lock etc..). Two months without power tools. He even makes his own drill bits! I suppose they got their guns back then in less than 12 months because they only lived to 35 years. If they made the customer wait too long he'd die of old age! They also didn't have ESPN to distract them! ha This is a must see film for ALL gun buffs modern or old. Oh, and I did put my fusee together as I'm too cheap to pay someone else to do it. BB > Was reading the "Complete Book of Firearms"by Sergio Masini and Rodolfo > Rotasso ,they have a picture of an 18th cen. Italian hunting rifle on > page 39 with the caption "Hunting rifle with Roman-style lock..Walnut > stock,engraved silver furniture...Lock with gold touch hole..." Clearly > a high end weapon and not the kind of thing generally carried by your > average Frontier type still theres a vent liner dating back to the 18th > cen. if anyones interested! > Your servant as ever, > M.A.Smith Esq. > > http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Flash hole coning web page? Date: 12 Nov 2002 20:36:52 -0700 (MST) I was wrong about Wallace Gusler coning his flash hole. I must have saw it somewhere else. It also took him 300 hours to handmake that flintlock and it was a REAL fancy one. I'm not sure if those hours included his helpers hours too. Someone posted a web page showing how they coned flash holes. I deleted it by mistake. Could you please re-post it. BB ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Ideas Date: 13 Nov 2002 14:05:49 +0000 Mr. Peterson, I guess the real question is, are you planning to use your saddle for period scouts and such? If so why bother with a modern style... use a period style and you don't have anything to worry about! All of my saddles are built on traditional "Spanish" and St. Louis type trees and while I don't do any roping I don't see any problems with them holding up to the task. Once you start riding period tack you won't want to go back to the modern stuff, just isn't the same! Dios, Libertad y Tejas Scott McMahon S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co. "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten. Not any sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them." General Ethan Allen Hitchcock _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: MtMan-List: fireproofing Date: 13 Nov 2002 16:18:25 -0500 As Webmistress for the Florida Frontiersmen I have just posted this notice on the Florida Frontiersmen's web site: "As of 11-12-02 the Polk County Fire Inspector has exempted the rquirement of prove of fire retardant on personal/private tents. This applies to ALL non-comercial tents. TRADERS may still be required to show prove that their tents are treated with a fire retardant. If you have any questions you can contact Roger & Katy Arrowood (727)391-1274" For more info about the Alafia River Rendezvous or the Florida Frontiersmen you can visit their web site at www.floridafrontiersmen.org My apologies to the group since this is off the topic of Southeastern Cultures, but I had to correct some misinformation posted here. More Majorum, after the manner of our ancestors, Teena Manyscalps Thomas ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Angela Gottfred" Subject: MtMan-List: BOOK: The Blanket Date: 13 Nov 2002 16:23:34 -0700 Do you remember the tag that came with your HBC point blanket? It was a little folding booklet that told you how great Bay blankets are, and gave a little bit of the history of the HBC and point blankets with lots of corporate rah-rah and somewhat dubious reliability. Harold Tichenor's book _ The Blanket: An Illustrated History of the Hudson's Bay Point Blanket _ seems to be the direct descendant of that little tag. The main virtue of this small hardcover book is that it clarifies two of the prevalent myths about point blankets: the "price point" myth, which states that one point equals one "made beaver"; and the incorrect terms "chief's blanket" and "Hudson's Bay blanket". Tichenor also has a long and detailed description of how Bay point blankets were, and are, made; it seems quite comprehensive, but since I'm not a textile person, I don't know how accurate it is. This book can drive the historically-oriented reader nuts. Although Tichenor is sometimes very forthcoming with dates, often his statements are so general that it is hard to be sure which century they apply to, or which geographical area. When writing generally about the HBC's activities, he sometimes gives the impression that the HBC operated solely in "Canada's North" or "the Arctic". There are many historical illustrations, but those unfamiliar with the artists will find it difficult to sort out the HBC calendar art from paintings made by artists of the period. A brief section on capotes focuses solely in the Blackfoot c. 1870 and later, which can give the impression that they were not a part of the fur trade before then. The information on dating blankets is limited to about roughly four pages of text (two on weaving and two on labels) and colour photos of four labels of different dates (c. 1890-1900; c. 1930; 1940's to 1960's; 2002)--not nearly enough info to satisfy the antique collector. The final section of the book gives some tips on blanket care and repair. If you're giving a HBC point blanket for a gift, this book could be a good accompaniment to it. But if you're looking for solid, reliable information, save your money. Harold Tichenor's _The Blanket: An Illustrated History of the Hudson's Bay Point Blanket_ (Quantum Book, Toronto: 2002. ISBN 1-895892-20-1) sells for $19.99 Cdn at Bay stores and is available online at www.hbc.com (search on Tichenor). --Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: MtMan-List: Sharpening Straight Razor Date: 17 Nov 2002 15:14:12 -0500 (EST) Hello the List, I've never had trouble putting a good working edge on any knife I've owned but to day i tried to sharpen a straight razor and it seems to be getting duller as opposed to sharper! Don't know what I'm doing wrong! any help would be greatly appreciated! Your Servant, M.A.Smith http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: Colt Revolvers Date: 17 Nov 2002 14:23:15 -0700 Can anyone tell me the approximate year(s) the Colt revolver came into common use, i.e., sold to the average joe? Geri D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sharpening Straight Razor Date: 17 Nov 2002 16:31:51 -0600 Sharpening a straight razor is not difficult but it must be done correctly...period. Click here: http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/sharpen/instrazor.html for a wealth of information and advice. Follow their instructions and you should do fine. Once you have sharpened and stropped the blade you should seek additional advice on shaving with a straight razor. You would be surprised at the number of ways you can cut yourself with one of the things. However, done properly there is no better way to shave...bar none, in my opinion. Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 2:14 PM > Hello the List, I've never had trouble putting a good working edge on > any knife I've owned but to day i tried to sharpen a straight razor and > it seems to be getting duller as opposed to sharper! Don't know what I'm > doing wrong! > any help would be greatly appreciated! > > Your Servant, > M.A.Smith > > http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Colt Revolvers Date: 17 Nov 2002 17:35:36 -0500 (EST) Early to Mid 1850's Y.M.O.S M.A. Smith http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Colt Revolvers Date: 17 Nov 2002 17:51:33 EST --part1_24.2f8b9ea2.2b097775_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geri, From Colt: An American Legend by R. L. Wilson, published by Artabras Division of Abbeville Press, N.Y., N.Y., 1985 Colt Paterson rifles and revolvers were being prototyped by a number of Colts' 'mechanics' from 1832-36, and were first patented in England in 1835. In 1836, Colt obtained a U.S. Patent and founded The Patent Arms Manufacturing Company in Paterson, N.J. that same year. "No.1 Baby Paterson, initial production model of the Colt revolver, beginning 1837" (pg 9) "Until late in 1836, Colt was equipped on his demonstrations and sales trips with only the prototypes made by Pearson, et al. But by the end of the year the first production pieces had been completed; first the No.1 Ring Lever Rifle, and second the No.1 Pocket or 'Baby Paterson' pistol." Ironically, considering today's universal identification of the Colt name with handguns, his initial revolvers were the longarms." (pg 16) It's probably necessary to keep in mind that even though these 'production' guns were available to civilians, individual officers and soldiers, Colt didn't make a lot of guns from 1837-42 (a total of 1,912 longarms and 2,850 Handguns) and most were snapped up by the Republic Of Texas. Barney --part1_24.2f8b9ea2.2b097775_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geri, From Colt: An American Legend by R. L. Wilson, published by Artabras Division of Abbeville Press, N.Y., N.Y., 1985

Colt Paterson rifles and revolvers were being prototyped by a number of Colts' 'mechanics' from 1832-36, and were first patented in England in 1835. In 1836, Colt obtained a U.S. Patent and founded The Patent Arms Manufacturing Company in Paterson, N.J. that same year.

"No.1 Baby Paterson, initial production model of the Colt revolver, beginning 1837" (pg 9)

"Until late in 1836, Colt was equipped on his demonstrations and sales trips with only the prototypes made by Pearson, et al. But by the end of the year the first production pieces had been completed; first the No.1 Ring Lever Rifle, and second the No.1 Pocket or 'Baby Paterson' pistol."

Ironically, considering today's universal identification of the Colt name with handguns, his initial revolvers were the longarms."
(pg 16)

It's probably necessary to keep in mind that even though these 'production' guns were available to civilians, individual officers and soldiers, Colt didn't make a lot of guns from 1837-42 (a total of 1,912 longarms and 2,850 Handguns) and most were snapped up by the Republic Of Texas.

Barney

--part1_24.2f8b9ea2.2b097775_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Don & Janice Shero" Subject: MtMan-List: trade guns Date: 17 Nov 2002 17:25:59 -0600 Just browsing in the Woodworking and Stockmaking booklet by Kit Ravenshere. He notes that during the French and Indian War, British gunmakers were stocking military muskets and trade guns at the rate of one gun per 8 hrs. He reminds us scraper marks were evident on the wood, the stock not finished any further than scraping, except some oil. Considering the nw trade gun was built for 200 yrs. plus, and mil. musket stocks didn't change that much, I suppose there were men who spent their whole working career ( 40 yrs. ? ) every day, making only one style gun. If so, a man should slap a trade gun together in his sleep. In Colonial Frontier Guns , by Hamilton , many guns had sheet iron buttplates and triggerguards, simpler to make and install than the fancy cast stuff. Of course, all not all had serpent sideplates, some were plain flat military style. I must remind myself there was obviously a big difference in the quality of a fine English gun and a trade gun, and time spent building each. I was wondering if anyone had read anything on how long it took the old time Pennsylvania gun makers to build a longrifle? Don, who hasn't shot a pheasant with my fusil this season, yet. however, found in the road ditch today, in a plastic bag, carcasses of a wild turkey, and three rooster pheasants. some sportsman. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sharpening Straight Razor Date: 17 Nov 2002 18:42:17 -0500 (EST) Thanks for the info guys! M. http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JIM BRYAN" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sharpening Straight Razor Date: 17 Nov 2002 17:53:04 -0600 ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C28E62.2E058C90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lanney, FYI, at the request of Tim Austin, I am going to give a demonstration of = sharpening and shaving with a straight razor next October at the AMM doin= 's in Lawton, Oklahoma at the Museum of the Plains. You will be my best c= ritic because of the experience with these things that you have. =20 Now, if I may take up a little space for those Brothers who may be intere= sted....... =20 I think the important thing to remember when sharpening a razor is to use= only enough pressure on the hone to keep it flat...DO NOT BEAR DOWN....m= ove the blade at a slight angle across the hone (edge first)as if cutting= a slice from it and do not lift the blade from the hone; roll it to the = other side over its spine. Keep the blade absolutely flat...the hollow gr= ind will take care of the angle of the edge. Also, no knife hone is fine = enough for the final edge on a razor. Even the black hard Arkansas is que= stionable. I use a Norton 4000-8000 combination grit water stone. I use i= t exclusively for my razors. 55 bucks or so on the net, but well worth it= . I hone on the 4000 grit side until it will easily shave the hair on my = arm, then I turn it over to the 8000 side. A properly finish-sharpened ra= zor will shave the hair on your arm when held slightly above the skin, bu= t the real test is on the beard. I don't use the thumbnail test except wh= en an old razor needs an extensive sharpening, and then only before the f= inal honing on the 8000 grit side to make sure there are no spots I have = missed that are still very dull. I am afraid of screwing up the edge I ha= ve sweated over. =20 A properly honed razor should not need re-honing for some months dependin= g on the toughness of your beard. The hone is for establishing the edge; = the strop is for maintaining it as it will become misaligned with use. I = put absolutely no polishing agent on my strop. The edge is perfectly fine= after using the 8000 grit side of the hone. Most polishes are not that f= ine and you will just be undoing what you have worked hard to achieve. I = only use a little olive oil or yellow strop paste every few months to dre= ss the leather. Use it only on the leather side. To properly strop with a strap-type strop, stretch it horizontally as tig= ht as you can and first use the canvas side to warm the blade(this time, = unlike on the hone, move the blade of the razor across the strop back-fir= st or you will wind up with a good pile of leather shavings to make hide = glue with!) . Again, DO NOT BEAR DOWN!! Just the weight of the razor is p= lenty or you will bow the strop and roll off that delicate edge you built= . The tiny micro-teeth on the razor's edge don't take much to align them.= Just light pressure and keep the blade flat...absolutely flat. 10-15 str= okes turning the razor over its spine on the canvas and about the same on= the leather side should do the trick. Again, don't lift the razor off th= e strop, just as with the hone. This is to avoid damaging the edge by rol= ling it over..it is real delicate. During the shave, if the razor should = start to pull, dry it with a towel and re-stop a few strokes on the leath= er side only . I usually have to do this right before tackling my chin. I= always strop before I shave, usually once-more during, and finally, afte= r shaving before putting the razor away. When your razor reaches the poin= t that stropping won't stop it from pulling, it is then time to re-hone. = A very few strokes on the finest hone you have should be sufficient. Any = more is just grinding away your razor's blade needlessly. =20 Finally, I use no oil on my razor's. I just dry them well with a towel an= d let them air dry before putting them away. They are high-carbon steel a= nd don't rust as easily as you might think. But, be very careful with tha= t edge.....it is so hard that it is easily chipped, and that is a disaste= r. Only the smallest chip can be easily honed out (did I say easily? Well= , it ain't easily done!!). Sorry for the wordiness, but I enjoy shaving this way and like to share w= hat little knowledge I have gained. If anyone wishes, email me off the li= st and I will try to help anyway I can. Shaving techniques are a whole 'n= other chapter! God Bless.. Your Brother, Jim "Absalom" Bryan =20 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 4:34 PM Sharpening a straight razor is not difficult but it must be done correctly...period. Click here: http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/sharpen/instrazor.html for a wealt= h of information and advice. Follow their instructions and you should do fine. Once you have sharpened and stropped the blade you should seek additional advice on shaving with a straight razor. You would be surpris= ed at the number of ways you can cut yourself with one of the things. Howev= er, done properly there is no better way to shave...bar none, in my opinion. Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 2:14 PM > Hello the List, I've never had trouble putting a good working edge on > any knife I've owned but to day i tried to sharpen a straight razor and > it seems to be getting duller as opposed to sharper! Don't know what I'= m > doing wrong! > any help would be greatly appreciated! > > Your Servant, > M.A.Smith > > http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C28E62.2E058C90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lanney,
=

FYI, at the request of Tim Austin, I am going to g= ive a demonstration of sharpening and shaving with a straight razor next = October at the AMM doin's in Lawton, Oklahoma at the Museum of the Plains= . You will be my best critic because of the experience with these things = that you have.

Now, if I may take up a litt= le space for those Brothers who may be interested.......

<= /U>

I think the important thing to remember when sharpen= ing a razor is to use only enough pressure on the hone to keep it fl= at...DO NOT BEAR DOWN....move the blade at a slight angle across t= he hone (edge first)as if cutting a slice from it and do not li= ft the blade from the hone; roll it to the other side over its spine.= Keep the blade absolutely flat...the hollow grind will take care = of the angle of the edge. Also, no knife hone is fine enough for the fina= l edge on a razor. Even the black hard Arkansas is questionable. I use a = Norton 4000-8000 combination grit water stone. I use it exclusively for m= y razors. 55 bucks or so on the net, but well worth it. I hone on the 400= 0 grit side until it will easily shave the hair on my arm, then I turn it= over to the 8000 side. A properly finish-sharpened razor will shave the = hair on your arm when held slightly above the skin, but the real test is = on the beard. I don't use the thumbnail test except when an old razor nee= ds an extensive sharpening, and then only before the final honing on the = 8000 grit side to make sure there are no spots I have missed that are sti= ll very dull. I am afraid of screwing up the edge I have sweated over.&nb= sp;

A properly honed razor should not need r= e-honing for some months depending on the toughness of your beard. The ho= ne is for establishing the edge; the strop is for maintaining it as it wi= ll become misaligned with use. I put absolutely no polishing agent= on my strop. The edge is perfectly fine after using the 8000 grit side o= f the hone. Most polishes are not that fine and you will just be undoing = what you have worked hard to achieve. I only use a little olive oil or ye= llow strop paste every few months to dress the leather. Use it only on th= e leather side.

To properly strop wit= h a strap-type strop, stretch it horizontally as tight as you can and fir= st use the canvas side to warm the blade(this time, unlike on the hone, m= ove the blade of the razor across the strop back-first or you will w= ind up with a good pile of leather shavings to make hide glue with!) . Ag= ain, DO NOT BEAR DOWN!! Just the weight of the razor is plenty or = you will bow the strop and roll off that delicate edge you built. The tin= y micro-teeth on the razor's edge don't take much to align them. Just lig= ht pressure and keep the blade flat...absolutely flat. 10-15 strokes = ;turning the razor over its spine on the canvas and about the same on the= leather side should do the trick. Again, don't lift the razor of= f the strop, just as with the hone. This is to avoid damaging the edg= e by rolling it over..it is real delicate. During the shave, if the = razor should start to pull, dry it with a towel and re-stop a few strokes= on the leather side only . I usually have to do this right before tackli= ng my chin. I always strop before I shave, usually once-more during, and = finally, after shaving before putting the razor away. When your razo= r reaches the point that stropping won't stop it from pulling, it is then= time to re-hone. A very few strokes on the finest hone you have should b= e sufficient. Any more is just grinding away your razor's blade needlessl= y.

Finally, I use no oil on my razor's. I j= ust dry them well with a towel and let them air dry before putting them a= way. They are high-carbon steel and don't rust as easily as you might thi= nk. But, be very careful with that edge.....it is so hard that it is easi= ly chipped, and that is a disaster. Only the smallest chip can be easily = honed out (did I say easily? Well, it ain't easily done!!).

&n= bsp;

Sorry for the wordiness, but I enjoy shaving this way and= like to share what little knowledge I have gained. If anyone wishes, ema= il me off the list and I will try to help anyway I can. Shaving technique= s are a whole 'nother chapter!

God Bless..

Your Brother,

Ji= m "Absalom" Bryan
<= DIV>

=
----- Original Message -----

From: Lanney Ratcliff

Sent: Sund= ay, November 17, 2002 4:34 PM

To= : hist_text@lists.xmission.com

= Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sharpening Straight Razor

&nbs= p;
Sharpening a straight razor is not difficult but it must be done<= BR>correctly...period. Click here:
http://www.knifecenter.com/kn= ifecenter/sharpen/instrazor.html for a wealth
of information and advic= e. Follow their instructions and you should do
fine. Once = you have sharpened and stropped the blade you should seek
additional a= dvice on shaving with a straight razor. You would be surprised
a= t the number of ways you can cut yourself with one of the things. H= owever,
done properly there is no better way to shave...bar none, in m= y opinion.
Lanney Ratcliff

----- Original Message -----
= t@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 2:14 PM
Su= bject: MtMan-List: Sharpening Straight Razor

> Hello the Li= st, I've never had trouble putting a good working edge on
> any kni= fe I've owned but to day i tried to sharpen a straight razor and
> = it seems to be getting duller as opposed to sharper! Don't know what I'm<= BR>> doing wrong!
> any help would be greatly appreciated!
&g= t;
>          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ; Your Servant,
>        &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;       M.A.Smith
>
> http://c= ommunity.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP
>
>
>= ; ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission= .com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

------------------= ----
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillis= t.html
------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C28E62.2E058C90-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: MtMan-List: Shaving Date: 17 Nov 2002 19:22:31 -0500 (EST) With all this talk of shaving technique and ultra fine hones,perfect edges and fancy stropes,did your frontier type be he Mountain Man or Longhunter have this type of equipment ( as it seems to be the general consensus that beards were not commonly worn) or did he just butcher that Ol ' beard off with a good SHARP knife when necessary ? Just wondering as I try to put a perfect edge on my fancy strait razor with my ultra fine hone! Your Servant As Ever, M.A.Smith Esq. http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JIM BRYAN" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sharpening Straight Razor Date: 17 Nov 2002 18:46:17 -0600 ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C28E69.9CFECDD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom, I hadn't thought of that, but your kind words might inspire me!! If there= is anything I can do to help you along, let me know. It is a kind of los= t art, but it sure as the Devil isn't rocket science. It just takes a lit= tle knowledge and a whole lot of patience... Your Brother, Jim ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 6:34 PM Jim, Thanks for a really informative message! I'm on the verge of trying one = of these things and appreciate the advice. I was thinking that perhaps there are other b= rothers, not on line, who might also enjoy and benefit from your experience. Might yo= u consider writing a piece on this topic for the T&LR? I'm sure Bill C. would be gl= ad to have it. Thanks! Tom =20 ----- Original Message ----- =20 Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 6:53 PM Lanney, FYI, at the request of Tim Austin, I am going to give a demonstration of = sharpening and shaving with a straight razor next October at the AMM doin= 's in Lawton, Oklahoma at the Museum of the Plains. You will be my best c= ritic because of the experience with these things that you have. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C28E69.9CFECDD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tom,

I hadn'= t thought of that, but your kind words might inspire me!! If there is any= thing I can do to help you along, let me know. It is a kind of lost art, = but it sure as the Devil isn't rocket science. It just takes a little kno= wledge and a whole lot of patience...

Your B= rother,

Jim

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Roberts

Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 6:34 PM=

To: Jim Bryan

Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sharpening Strai= ght Razor

Jim,

= Thanks for a really informative message! I'm on the verge of trying= one of these things

and appreciate = the advice. I was thinking that perhaps there are other brothers, n= ot

on line, who might also enjoy and= benefit from your experience. Might you consider
writing a piece on this topic for the T&LR? = I'm sure Bill C. would be glad to have it.

Thanks!

Tom&nbs= p;

----- Original Message -----

From: JIM BRYAN
To: hist_text@lis= ts.xmission.com

Sent: S= unday, November 17, 2002 6:53 PM

Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sharpening Straight Razor

Lanney,

FYI, at the request of Tim Austin, I am going t= o give a demonstration of sharpening and shaving with a straight razor ne= xt October at the AMM doin's in Lawton, Oklahoma at the Museum of the Pla= ins. You will be my best critic because of the experience with these thin= gs that you have.

------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C28E69.9CFECDD0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaving Date: 17 Nov 2002 22:18:29 -0500 ",did your frontier type be he Mountain Man or Longhunter have this type of equipment ( as it seems to be the general consensus that beards were not commonly worn) " >>One word.. Yes. or did he just butcher that Ol ' beard off with a good SHARP knife when necessary >>Ever try that??? A "shaving" edge on a knife will render it absolutely useless for any other chore, as it will roll. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaving Date: 18 Nov 2002 08:00:56 -0500 (EST) Mr Miles wrote" Ever try that??? A "shaving" edge on a knife will render it absolutely useless for any other chore, as it will roll.D." That was my point will a very sharp reg. angle edge shave? So in th name of knowledge I took my inexpensive 18th cen. Penny Knife repo. put the very best edge on it I could. then I shaved the the hair on my hand...no problem! Then the real test shaved one side of my face.. was it a comfortable shave? NO!! Did it get the job done?Yes! then proceeded to cut some rope,whittle a point on a stick and open a few cardboard boxes. I guess my point being is that comfort and necessity don't always go hand and hand! The Indians plucked their facial,body and head hair out with clam shells that can't have felt very good ! And no thank you I'll skip that one if you don't mind! Most Humbly, M.Smth P.S Any one got a Band Aid ? M . http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaving Date: 18 Nov 2002 08:59:05 -0500 If you would have had re cut the edge on your penny knife to that of an effective razor, you wouldn't have been able to do such things. Also, there would be no reason to as quality razors were common. \\\ As were hones, strops & ect. The main difference of a antique 18thC-19thC razors and modern is the grind. The old ones were flat ground the newer ones 1850- were hollow ground.. So I guess if you want to shave yourself with a knife, have at it.. But if I were you, invest in an original flat ground razor, have one made or get a modern reproduction. D BTW, the hone I use was made around 1800, the wood backed strop is a repro of an 18thC example and when I take my razor to an event, I have a copy of a setup I use that came from the Museum of the Mountain Man. And I don't look like I shaved with a pissed off weasel.... ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaving Date: 18 Nov 2002 09:39:00 -0500 (EST) Thanks for the info Dennis,how long is your strope,what type of leather was used and how fine is your hone? Also Did you make your razor and if so how much would you charge for something similar? My favorite knife is a little utility knife I bought from you about three years ago! Your Servant As Ever, M. http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaving Date: 18 Nov 2002 09:44:28 -0500 (EST) Question: How does one shave with a pissed off weasel? Answer: Very carefully! Ba Dum Bump... M. http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaving Date: 18 Nov 2002 10:14:19 -0500 Thanks for the info Dennis,how long is your strop,what type of leather was used and how fine is your hone? >>The strop I use here is a standard Horsehide/Canvas strop made in Brooklyn NY around the turn of the Century. It is 2' long My wood backed paddle strop is about 9" and was made by Hart Haynes of Colonial Reproductions. The original hone I use has no grit markings, but it is glass smooth and is comparable to my Japanese Waterstone which is around 8000 grit. Also Did you make your razor >>Noo, My main shaving razor is a G Johnson, C1810. Got it on Ebay for $35. They are common, and reasonable. Even got a great fur trade era W&B I use that I paid the princely sum of $12. for, on ebay.... and if so how much would you charge for something similar? >>I went down that path about a year ago, turned out one and it was so labor intensive with polishing and all that it makes them cost restrictive. You can near buy an original 7 day set for what I charge.. My favorite knife is a little utility knife I bought from you about three years ago! >>Thankee, glad you like it D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: MtMan-List: shaving Date: 18 Nov 2002 07:25:21 -0800 (PST) I am not quite sure how or when it was that the "popular" opinion that most mountain men were clean shaven started, but I do know that most of the men up here in the high country that spend any time at all in the outdoors during winter months grows a beard for warmth. I have heard convincing arguments from both sides, usually to defend ones own facial hair or lack there of. Any comments? Dog __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shaving Date: 18 Nov 2002 10:41:29 -0500 There are SEVERAL good straight razors and strops on eBay right now if anyone is interested.... Regards, Ad www.ebay.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaving Date: 18 Nov 2002 08:35:29 -0800 "...And I don't look like I shaved with a pissed off weasel..." Maybe more like a pissed off weasel that just shaved??? Black Knife (Sorry Dennis, just couldn't resist!) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaving Date: 18 Nov 2002 12:21:24 -0500 > Maybe more like a pissed off weasel that just shaved??? > >>Alan Speaking of which... Where is my Rhum??!?? D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: A Buck, beaver and an Otter too!! Date: 18 Nov 2002 12:09:29 -0700 (MST) Yee Ha! Beaverboy has been a Busy Boy! 20 beaver, 2 coon, 35 rats (all the fur skinned,fleshed and stretched, too) and my buck with the trade gun! That on top of a 57 hour work week of driving 2043 miles! Guess what I didn't do much of in the last two weeks? That's right, sleep. Averaged about 5 hours a night. I don't need to drink or do drugs, I get high naturally on lack of sleep! I tell you, I don't know how Lindbergh flew the Atlantic without falling asleep. I get pretty loopy after 19 hours up! Coffee stock should have skyrocketted last week. Oh, and to finish the week I caught an otter on my son's b-day before we went out celebrate his 13th birthday! I offered him the key to my old 4x4 trapping rig and he declined it! I guess it is pretty beat up. A big storm or bitter cold snap will end my open water fun soon enough so we have to make hay while the sunshines. It's funny how I always worry about filling tags and catching fur and I always just plug at it by putting in a few good sets and doing my time in the treestand and before I know it everything starts to fall into place. I was blessed the last two weeks and also very tired. I'm thinking maybe I can catch or hunt enough fur to get me a flintlock rifle.(I'm going to move up in the world from a smoothbore to a rifle!) Paid for my trade gun with beaver hides 6 years ago but beaver prices are down since then so I guess twice as many beaver will have to pay the ultimate price. Problem beaver are pretty thick though so I shouldn't have too much trouble finding them. It will be the ice, when its comes again, that will slow me down. Couple of the other L&C Honor Guard boys up here also got deer with their flinters, Mike's doe was his first with a flintlock! Good luck to everyone out there and hit them trails and lay some steel. Got to go skin a beaver, Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaving Date: 18 Nov 2002 12:31:04 -0800 "...Speaking of which... Where is my Rhum??!??..." Good things comes to them as waits.... BK ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: MtMan-List: Buffalo Hunt Raffle Date: 18 Nov 2002 16:44:56 -0800

HUNTERS-   The time is nigh....   There are only 12 more days to get your tickets for the Great Buffalo Hunt Raffle in. For details see:

http://amm_raffle.tripod.com/amm.html

   Tickets are $10 each, or 6 for $50. Proceeds go to the A.M.M. Land Fund. As of today's mail there are 291 tickets in the drawing box. Your odds are good.   If you don't have a ticket blank, just send checks to me:

Randal Bublitz-Land Fund Clerk

5447 Princeton Dr.

Santa Maria CA 93455

The drawing will be early the first week of December (depending on when I can get to my bank, as my Banker will draw the tickets and Notorize the result).   Get your tickets in before then, and you have a good chance of winning. The odds as of today are 1:291    alot better than lottery odds...!!! Good Luck to those who participate.   YFAB, Randy

Randal Bublitz

rjbublitz@earthlink.net

Freedom is Not Free

---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Brown" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Don Shero's post Date: 18 Nov 2002 19:57:33 -0500 Don, I know what you mean. I once found several quail and woodcock scattered in a pile around a dumpster near here. The person who would treat their quarry in such a manner doesn't deserve to breathe God's good air, much less hunt his precious babies. > Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:25:59 -0600 > From: "Don & Janice Shero" > Subject: MtMan-List: trade guns > > Don, > who hasn't shot a pheasant with my fusil this season, yet. > however, found in the road ditch today, in a plastic bag, carcasses of a > wild turkey, and three rooster pheasants. some sportsman. > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Buffalo Date: 19 Nov 2002 21:35:42 EST --part1_149.2f7f1ba.2b0c4efe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I met a man today who has two bulls. He wants to sell them. If anyone is interested. Contact me off list. Ridge Pole --part1_149.2f7f1ba.2b0c4efe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I met a man today who has two bulls. He wants to sell them. If anyone is interested. Contact me off list.

                                  Ridge Pole --part1_149.2f7f1ba.2b0c4efe_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: MtMan-List: Site Update Date: 20 Nov 2002 11:08:44 -0500 Pardon the crass commercial announcement... I put 3 versions of the same knife C.1793 on the site http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 , if anyone is interested.. Thanks D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: MtMan-List: Scissors? Date: 23 Nov 2002 12:34:04 -0500 (EST) Were scissors used and traded in the RMFT era? As Ever, M. http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scissors? Date: 23 Nov 2002 11:26:14 -0700 (MST) Yes, L&C even had scissors with them on their expedition. Scissors along with the better knives came from Sheffield, England. These were scissors almost identical to modern ones only they were polished steel not chromed or whatever they use nowadays. I was given a gift of a pair of handmade scissors "Shedfield Made" with the files marks visible and they are very sharp. "Sheffield made" scissors can be purchased from the Fort Union National Historical Site trade room. You can find them on the internet under Fort Union, North Dakota. Sincerely, BB > Were scissors used and traded in the RMFT > era? > As Ever, > M. > > http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scissors? Date: 23 Nov 2002 11:36:02 -0700 Scissors were a big trade item. There were generally two types. The English or Sheffield type which were the most common. They look like modern scissors accept the finger holes are round and of equal size. These were polished steel. Then there were the Chinese scissors that are so popular at rendezvous today. They are the black ones with the big finger loops that look like gardening scissors. The Chinese had been around a long time, but were not as common as they are today. There were also shears available, which came in a variety of sizes and look like sheep shears. The extant examples of scissors are predominantly the English scissors with very few of the Chinese style. YMOS Bead Shooter ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:34 AM > Were scissors used and traded in the RMFT > era? > As Ever, > M. > > http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scissors? Date: 23 Nov 2002 21:15:53 -0700 (MST) Gene, Do those Chinese scissors come from Wal-Mart? L&C show 15 dozen scissors on their list of indian presents. BB > Scissors were a big trade item. There were generally two types. The > English or Sheffield type which were the most common. They look like > modern scissors accept the finger holes are round and of equal size. > These were polished steel. Then there were the Chinese scissors that > are so popular at rendezvous today. They are the black ones with the > big finger loops that look like gardening scissors. The Chinese had > been around a long time, but were not as common as they are today. > There were also shears available, which came in a variety of sizes and > look like sheep shears. The extant examples of scissors are > predominantly the English scissors with very few of the Chinese style. > > YMOS > Bead Shooter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "The Grey Wolfe" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:34 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: Scissors? > > >> Were scissors used and traded in the RMFT >> era? >> As Ever, >> M. >> >> http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scissors? Date: 23 Nov 2002 21:23:54 -0700 They bought the scissors from the same source as the Sheffield knives. That and the fact that there are so few extant Chinese scissors compared to the many many English scissors we conclude that they very likely had English scissors. Bead ----- Original Message ----- Do those Chinese scissors come from Wal-Mart? L&C show 15 dozen scissors on their list of indian presents. > BB ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scissors? Date: 24 Nov 2002 00:26:21 -0600 Beadshooter, You just can't make broad sweeping statements -- nearly always they're wrong. You're close, there were a lot of imported plain & fine scissors with round loops. Not all. A wide variety of large scissors and shears were made as well as many with elongated loops far earlier than any period relevant to this list. The China trade was well established by the early 19th Century, tea and porcelain were widely disbursed I've no doubt a few pair of scissors and a lot more went along for the ride. Naturally English products dominate as they were the dominate trade partner and population centers were on the East coast. I have on exhibit in the AMM collection at The Museum of The Mountainman in Pinedale, WY a fine pair of blacksmith made period scissors. About 5-6" blades, a nice general sewing size with loops. They are beautifully done, Rick Guthrie made a set a bunch of years ago and I think Fiddlin' Red made a pair or two as well. Not all shears looked like sheep shears. I have a period bench shear with no rings or loops of any kind, one handle is straight the other has a bend pounded to a spike to drive into a bench to aid mounting. I also have smaller shears that look more like modern scissors only really big. Candle snifters were also made with both ring and loop styles. Most of the useful all-metal scissors and shears made today have earlier style counterparts. The round nose scissors we used in grade school in 1950 were identical to a standard pattern Sheffield style I can solidly place in the very early 1800's. Scissors required a much higher level of skill than necessary to make knives, swords, axes, and such. A manufactory making scissors in the early 19th century was cutting edge technology that helped lead us into the industrial revolution. Needle makers were very influential as well. Not only can most people not sharpen scissors properly; far fewer yet can make good ones. Only the most talented smiths ever even try to make scissors. A few of those succeed. John... At 12:36 PM 11/23/02, you wrote: >Scissors were a big trade item. There were generally two types. The English >or Sheffield type which were the most common. They look like modern scissors >accept the finger holes are round and of equal size. These were polished >steel. Then there were the Chinese scissors that are so popular at >rendezvous today. They are the black ones with the big finger loops that >look like gardening scissors. The Chinese had been around a long time, but >were not as common as they are today. There were also shears available, >which came in a variety of sizes and look like sheep shears. The extant >examples of scissors are predominantly the English scissors with very few of >the Chinese style. > >YMOS >Bead Shooter > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "The Grey Wolfe" >To: >Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:34 AM >Subject: MtMan-List: Scissors? > > > > Were scissors used and traded in the RMFT > > era? > > As Ever, > > M. > > > > http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin 1759 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: goods for sale Date: 24 Nov 2002 22:58:40 EST --part1_178.124153e8.2b12f9f0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have available for shipment: *hand woven Hemp garters dyed in pecan hulls with braintan tabs and ties. $28.00 *Hand sewn 3-4 ounce veg. tanned leather shot containers small(holds about 12 shots of 70 grains of 7.5 shot) $12.00 each. *Hand sewn leather wallets, wallet is made of 7-8 oz. veg. tan leather with 2 pockets made of 3-4 oz. leather. (one left in natural leather color, another in dark brown) $28.00 each *Hand sewn 7-8 ounce veg. tanned leather shot containers medium (holds about 17 shots of 70 grains of 7.5 shot)$19.00 each *leather canteens two round shaped, one heart shaped, hand sewn with linen thread, lined with a mixture of beeswax/pitch,leather carrying strap, holds about 6-8 cups. $70 each. each items price includes shipping and handling. no pictures available just yet....please email off-list for inquiries Frank Sablan Midland,Texas coming soon hand knitted socks mid-calf length and wool caps ..pics available soon on the knitted items --part1_178.124153e8.2b12f9f0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have available for shipment:
*hand woven Hemp garters dyed in pecan hulls with braintan tabs and ties. $28.00
*Hand sewn 3-4 ounce veg. tanned leather shot containers small(holds about 12 shots of 70 grains of 7.5 shot) $12.00 each.
*Hand sewn leather wallets, wallet is made of 7-8 oz. veg. tan leather with 2 pockets made of 3-4 oz. leather. (one left in natural leather color, another in dark brown) $28.00 each
*Hand sewn 7-8 ounce veg. tanned leather shot containers medium (holds about 17 shots of 70 grains of 7.5 shot)$19.00 each
*leather canteens two round shaped, one heart shaped, hand sewn with linen thread, lined with a mixture of beeswax/pitch,leather carrying strap, holds about 6-8 cups. $70 each.

each items price includes shipping and handling.

no pictures available just yet....please email off-list for inquiries

Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas

coming soon hand knitted socks mid-calf length and wool caps ..pics available soon on the knitted items
--part1_178.124153e8.2b12f9f0_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: manbear Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scissors? Date: 25 Nov 2002 10:34:26 -0500 --------------B8738BFE3BCD83114C0ACE43 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just came across these on Ebay and thought someone here might be interested. Manbear http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=737773971 beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > Yes, L&C even had scissors with them on their expedition. Scissors > along with the better knives came from Sheffield, England. These were > scissors almost identical to modern ones only they were polished steel not > chromed or whatever they use nowadays. I was given a gift of a pair of > handmade scissors "Shedfield Made" with the files marks visible and they > are very sharp. "Sheffield made" scissors can be purchased from the Fort > Union National Historical Site trade room. You can find them on the > internet under Fort Union, North Dakota. > Sincerely, > BB > > > Were scissors used and traded in the RMFT > > era? > > As Ever, > > M. > > > > http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --------------B8738BFE3BCD83114C0ACE43 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just came across these on Ebay and thought someone here might be interested.
Manbear
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=737773971
beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:
   Yes, L&C even had scissors with them on their expedition. Scissors
along with the better knives came from Sheffield, England. These were
scissors almost identical to modern ones only they were polished steel not
chromed or whatever they use nowadays. I was given a gift of a pair of
handmade scissors "Shedfield Made" with the files marks visible and they
are very sharp. "Sheffield made" scissors can be purchased from the Fort
Union National Historical Site trade room. You can find them on the
internet under Fort Union, North Dakota.
         Sincerely,
                 BB
> Were scissors used and traded in the RMFT
> era?
>                As Ever,
>                           M.
>
> http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
--------------B8738BFE3BCD83114C0ACE43-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Chronister Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scissors? Date: 25 Nov 2002 09:25:44 -0700 Yes. Allen Chronister The Grey Wolfe wrote: > Were scissors used and traded in the RMFT > era? > As Ever, > M. > > http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Prince, John" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scissors? Date: 25 Nov 2002 09:08:45 -0800 Date sent: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:25:44 -0700 Send reply to: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Yes. > Allen Chronister > > The Grey Wolfe wrote: > > > Were scissors used and traded in the RMFT > > era? > > As Ever, > I reckon that this was "cutting edge" technoology amongst the trappers :) Two Feathers ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: MtMan-List: Site Update Date: 25 Nov 2002 15:09:05 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C29494.98832F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A couple of new butchers on the site along with a couple other knives. http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/ Thanks D ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C29494.98832F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A couple of new butchers on the site = along with a=20 couple other knives.

http://www.bright.net/~deforge1= /

Thanks

D

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C29494.98832F40-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scissors? Date: 25 Nov 2002 18:13:26 -0700 (MST) Those are nice scissors! And from the UK though rather large. BB > I just came across these on Ebay and thought someone here might be > interested. Manbear > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=737773971 > > beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > >> Yes, L&C even had scissors with them on their expedition. Scissors >> along with the better knives came from Sheffield, England. These were >> scissors almost identical to modern ones only they were polished steel >> not chromed or whatever they use nowadays. I was given a gift of a >> pair of handmade scissors "Shedfield Made" with the files marks >> visible and they are very sharp. "Sheffield made" scissors can be >> purchased from the Fort Union National Historical Site trade room. You >> can find them on the internet under Fort Union, North Dakota. >> Sincerely, >> BB >> >> > Were scissors used and traded in the RMFT >> > era? >> > As Ever, >> > M. >> > >> > http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP >> > >> > >> > ---------------------- >> > hist_text list info: >> > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Pie Date: 28 Nov 2002 12:12:36 EST --part1_d.328de2f.2b17a884_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am trying to compile a list of PIE recipes: I know this has been on before but I am very poor at finding anything in the archives. Will you please post how you make pie? Thank you. Your Humble Servant Ridge Pole --part1_d.328de2f.2b17a884_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am trying to compile a list of PIE recipes: I know this has been on before but I am very poor at finding anything in the archives. Will you please post how you make pie?
Thank you.
                    Your Humble Servant

                    Ridge Pole --part1_d.328de2f.2b17a884_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pie Date: 28 Nov 2002 12:44:21 -0500 Umm... what kind of PIE? Got several great receipes... best one is for Jus' Pie.... Regards, Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pie Date: 28 Nov 2002 13:36:53 EST --part1_27.325cbd1a.2b17bc45_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The kind where you could have trouble walking after drinking to much of it. --part1_27.325cbd1a.2b17bc45_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The kind where you could have trouble walking after drinking to much of it. --part1_27.325cbd1a.2b17bc45_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pie Date: 28 Nov 2002 13:55:03 EST --part1_18f.11f2519a.2b17c087_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ridge Pole, Here is a recipe that I got of the list a while back, and it was just delicious: 1 Gallon Apple Cider 1 Cup Brown Sugar 1 Cup Honey 5 Cinnamon Sticks 7 Whole Cloves Juice of 1/2 Lemon 1 Fifth Everclear (or Cap't Morgans if not avail, but will change the taste) Simmer all except the Everclear or Rum for 45 minutes; will reduce slightly. Strain out spices; let cool to room temperature. Add the Fifth of Alcohol. The longer it sets, the smoother it gets. Barney --part1_18f.11f2519a.2b17c087_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ridge Pole, Here is a recipe that I got of the list a while back, and it was just delicious:

1 Gallon Apple Cider
1 Cup Brown Sugar
1 Cup Honey
5 Cinnamon Sticks
7 Whole Cloves
Juice of 1/2 Lemon

1 Fifth Everclear (or Cap't Morgans if not avail, but will change the taste)

Simmer all except the Everclear or Rum for 45 minutes; will reduce slightly. Strain out spices; let cool to room temperature.

Add the Fifth of Alcohol.

The longer it sets, the smoother it gets.

Barney --part1_18f.11f2519a.2b17c087_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee Newbill" Subject: MtMan-List: (Idaho/Washington) Hell's Canyon Turkey Shoot, Jan 19 Date: 30 Nov 2002 08:23:55 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C29849.D2A098D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Upcoming event in the Lewiston/Clarkston area ------- Hells Canyon Muzzleloaders Annual Turkey Shoot When: Sunday January 19th, 2003 At 1O AM Where: The Down River Road shooting site, 6 miles from Red Wolf Bridge = in Clarkston towards Boyer Park. Watch for sign at shoot site. Between = mile marker 6-7. New Members Welcomed.=20 Cost: $7 entry fee per shooter. Misc: 1st place Medals for Men and Women. Turkey Raffle also. Come shoot = with us and "Get the Bird". For more information: Contact Larry Presnell - Club President At = 746-3109=20 ------- ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C29849.D2A098D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Upcoming event in the = Lewiston/Clarkston=20 area

Hells Canyon Muzzleloaders = Annual Turkey=20 Shoot

When: Sunday January 19th, 2003 At 1O AM

Where: The Down River Road shooting site, 6 miles from = Red Wolf=20 Bridge in Clarkston towards Boyer Park. Watch for sign at shoot site. = Between=20 mile marker 6-7. New Members Welcomed.

Cost: $7 entry fee per shooter.

Misc: 1st place Medals for Men and Women. Turkey Raffle = also.=20 Come shoot with us and "Get the Bird".

For more information: Contact Larry Presnell - Club = President=20 At 746-3109

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C29849.D2A098D0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee Newbill" Subject: MtMan-List: Event in Hillsboro Oregon Date: 30 Nov 2002 09:00:27 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2984E.ED215190 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dec. 7-8=20 Mountain Man Trade Show Washington County Fairgrounds, Hillsboro OR Kent Gore (503) 848-7653 or Gary Miller (503) 286-3270 ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2984E.ED215190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dec. 7-8
Mountain Man Trade Show
Washington = County=20 Fairgrounds, Hillsboro OR
Kent Gore (503) 848-7653 or Gary Miller = (503)=20 286-3270
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2984E.ED215190-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html