From: "Sean Boushie" Subject: MtMan-List: DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man 1820-1840 Date: 01 Apr 2004 15:23:33 +0000 Hello the list, Does anyone know where I could get a copy of Jeff Hengesbaugh and Wess Housler's book DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man 1820-1840? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Thanks in advance. SMB _________________________________________________________________ All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Brandl Subject: MtMan-List: FW: French television Date: 31 Mar 2004 21:09:22 -0700 If anyone is interested, please let him know joe To Jo Brandl: I'm a french journalist working for the french national television network France 3. I'm preparing a TV magazin about Wyoming. I would like to know if it would be possible to make some filming and interview with you to show your work. I would like to show the cowboy univers and the mountain men univers. Do you know when and where is the grand national rendez-vous. Do you think it would be possible for me to go there? What is your planning for the next 3 months and will you be interested by m= y venue? I hope to read you soon. best regards Fred email : if1723@tele2.fr Fr=E9d=E9ric Andr=E9i 00 33 1 39 75 44 24 00 33 1 39 75 23 44 ------ End of Forwarded Message ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man 1820-1840 Date: 01 Apr 2004 08:34:11 -0800 This is Wes's on-line catalog for hides, etc... it has his e-mail address. I'd e-mail him and ask, I bet he'd know where to get one. Randy http://www.braintan.com/bison/wes.html > [Original Message] > From: Sean Boushie > > > Hello the list, > > Does anyone know where I could get a copy of Jeff Hengesbaugh and Wess > Housler's book DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man 1820-1840? > > I can't seem to find it anywhere. > > Thanks in advance. > > SMB > > _________________________________________________________________ > All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by > ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John McKee" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man 1820-1840 Date: 01 Apr 2004 11:28:46 -0600 Check out www.crazycrow.com and look in their book section. It's there. The Stitchin' Scotsman 100% Handsewn Elkhide garments and moccasins Manu Forti www.stitchinscotsman.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 9:23 AM > > > Hello the list, > > Does anyone know where I could get a copy of Jeff Hengesbaugh and Wess > Housler's book DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man 1820-1840? > > I can't seem to find it anywhere. > > Thanks in advance. > > SMB ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man 1820-1840 Date: 01 Apr 2004 17:43:47 +0000 The video is there, and still readily avaliable many places, but no book. >From: "John McKee" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man 1820-1840 >Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:28:46 -0600 > >Check out www.crazycrow.com and look in their book section. It's there. > > >The Stitchin' Scotsman >100% Handsewn Elkhide garments >and moccasins >Manu Forti >www.stitchinscotsman.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sean Boushie" >To: >Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 9:23 AM >Subject: MtMan-List: DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man 1820-1840 > > > > > > > > Hello the list, > > > > Does anyone know where I could get a copy of Jeff Hengesbaugh and Wess > > Housler's book DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man 1820-1840? > > > > I can't seem to find it anywhere. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > SMB > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Powell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man 1820-1840 Date: 01 Apr 2004 23:49:37 +0000

Try contacting Wes directly.  On the back of the video cover is Wes's number.  He may have books or can give you the publishers name.  505-687-3267

Later,

Mike

AMM #1769
POISON RIVER PARTY
"Ride, Ride, Ride"
"Aux Aliments du Pays"! >From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man 1820-1840 >Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:43:47 +0000 > >The video is there, and still readily avaliable many places, but no >book. > > >>From: "John McKee" <stitchin@sirisonline.com> >>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man >>1820-1840 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:28:46 -0600 >> >>Check out www.crazycrow.com and look in their book section. It's >>there. >> >> >>The Stitchin' Scotsman >>100% Handsewn Elkhide garments >>and moccasins >>Manu Forti >>www.stitchinscotsman.com >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> >>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >>Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 9:23 AM >>Subject: MtMan-List: DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man >>1820-1840 >> >> >> > >> > >> > Hello the list, >> > >> > Does anyone know where I could get a copy of Jeff Hengesbaugh >>and Wess >> > Housler's book DRESS AND EQUIPAGE of the Mountain Man >>1820-1840? >> > >> > I can't seem to find it anywhere. >> > >> > Thanks in advance. >> > >> > SMB >> >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: >>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – >FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nathan Offutt Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tom Brown Jr. Date: 02 Apr 2004 10:31:33 -0800 (PST) --0-1894018608-1080930693=:35161 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have taken the standard, advanced standard, and advanced tracking. The more advanced the class, the less content could be found in books. The standard curriculum could be learned from books and a fair amount of dirt time figuring things out. The advanced standard is much more hands on, but a lot of the fundamentals could be gotten from books. There is a good amount of helpful hints that save a lot of time figuring out the details. The movement and camo portion is not in any book, nor are a number of the traps covered, and there are a lot. Also, some shelter info not in a book, which you get to test out firsthand while you are there. The advanced tracking class goes way beyond anything in print in just the first day. Tom experimented with teaching us a little about micro and macro pressure releases, and it really speeded up the classes progress in seeing tracks on difficult soil. Also more info on camo and movement not found in any book and the fundamentals of reading concentric rings are covered. The concentric ring stuff can be found in John Youngs tapes on bird language. Talk to you later. Nathan MarkLoader@aol.com wrote: Thanks Nathan Your comments are about I would expect the standard class would be. Cover the basics in many areas so that all the students have a good foundation to go on to more advances in other areas. Tom has 27 other courses to choose from some have prerequisites besides the standard course. I like you have many (more than most) survival skills. I was once complement and asked for impute on friction fire building by John McPherson. What courses did you take? Thanks again I hope I get more feed back. Mark Loader #1849 Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today --0-1894018608-1080930693=:35161 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I have taken the standard, advanced standard, and advanced tracking. The more advanced the class, the less content could be found in books. The standard curriculum could be learned from books and a fair amount of dirt time figuring things out. The advanced standard is much more hands on, but a lot of the fundamentals could be gotten from books. There is a good amount of helpful hints that save a lot of time figuring out the details. The movement and camo portion is not in any book, nor are a number of the traps covered, and there are a lot. Also, some shelter info not in a book, which you get to test out firsthand while you are there. The advanced tracking class goes way beyond anything in print in just the first day. Tom experimented with teaching us a little about micro and macro pressure releases, and it really speeded up the classes progress in seeing tracks on difficult soil. Also more info on camo and movement not found in any book and the fundamentals of reading concentric rings are covered. The concentric ring stuff can be found in John Youngs tapes on bird language. Talk to you later.
Nathan

MarkLoader@aol.com wrote:
Thanks Nathan
Your comments are about I would expect the standard class would be. Cover the basics in many areas so that all the students have a good foundation to go on to more advances in other areas. Tom has 27 other courses to choose from some have prerequisites besides the standard course. I like you have many (more than most) survival skills. I was once complement and asked for impute on friction fire building by John McPherson. What courses did you take?
Thanks again I hope I get more feed back.
Mark Loader #1849

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today --0-1894018608-1080930693=:35161-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: joesph nguyen Subject: To whom it may concern Date: 08 Apr 2004 04:36:52 +0300 (EEST) Attn: The President/CEO. Dear Friend, It is with mixed feelings that I write this letter to you, though we have n= ot met each other before now, but it is my hope and belief that at the end = of this transaction that I want to introduce to you and seek your help/assi= stance for, we will definitely get to know each other better and appreciate= one another. My name is Col. Joseph Nguyen of the Liberian Army. I am one of the close c= onfidants of our erstwhile President, Gen. Charles Taylor who is now under = political asylum in Nigeria after a bitter 12years civil war in my country = Liberia. Of which Charles Taylor voluntarily relinquished power to an inter= im government put in place in Liberia by (ECOWAS & AU) for peace to reign i= n that country before accepting an offer to take up asylum in Nigeria. Right now, we are about 100 close associate and confidants in asylum with h= im in the city of Calabar in Nigeria and I Col. Joseph Nguyen is specifical= ly in charge of president Charles Taylor s finances which we brought into N= igeria totaling about US$20million (Twenty Million United Stated Dollars). = But due to the US$2million ransom placed on the head of President Charles T= aylor by the US government on any information that will lead to the capture= /abduction of President Charles Taylor from Nigeria to face the UN tribunal= in Sierra Leone/Liberia because of the war for crimes they claimed he has = committed while in office as President. There is now a general atmosphere of fears and uncertainty that one day the= American soldiers will invade Nigeria to abduct him to face the UN tribuna= l, which will then mean forfeiting all his wealth including the above menti= oned US$20million. Charles Taylor has therefore charged me specifically to = find a way of moving this fund away from Nigeria to a secret place abroad t= hrough an agent or individual for safe keeps, after which the agent/individ= ual will be compensated with 20% of the total sum while the balance 80% bel= onging to Charles Taylor can then be invested to any lucrative profit gener= ating business pending when Charles Taylor will be needing the funds. Meanwhile, because of the confidentiality this transaction requires, we hav= e decided not to use the means of a wire transfer to move these funds abroa= d so as not to allow the outside world get wind of it and possibly block/se= ize the funds. As such I have device a means to secretly move this funds to= you abroad by packaging/stocking the funds into boxes in form of consignme= nts and depositing them (boxes) with a security company as Gold Bars for on= ward/immediate airlifting/shipment to you as goods & services, this way it = is only you and myself that will then know the actual content of the consig= nments. Therefore, all we require you to do now is to assist in receiving the packa= ges (consignments) from the security/courier company as the beneficiary and= once this is done successfully, I will send you the keys to open the consi= gnments to gain access to the funds for your 20% share for assisting us, wh= ile also counting on your further assistance to help us invest the balance = 80% into business with the names and information we will furnish you with l= ater for the investments. To enable you received these consignments from the security/courier company= as the rightful beneficiary, I will need you to send me your full name and= contact address information where the security company will deliver the co= nsignments to you, for your pick ups and then your telephone/fax numbers fo= r easy communications, these will then be submitted to the Security Company= as the contact information of the receiver/recipient of the consignments, = so as to enable them deliver the Consignments to you. Please be informed th= at if the security company finds it difficult to deliver the consignments t= o your contact address due to any reason, then you might be required to per= sonally travel to any of their branch office in Europe to take possession o= f the consignments into your custody. Finally, let me quickly remind you that this transaction is 100% risk free = as we have done our home work for the successful delivery of the consignmen= t before contacting you. Thanks in advance for your urgent reply with the above requested informatio= n s and full co-operation. Yours faithfully Col. Joseph Nguyen N:B. Please kindly send your reply to any of my private email addresses jon= guyeh@sify.com=20 .............................................................. MTV3 Laajakaista - Hauskemman el=E4m=E4n puolesta. http://www.mtv3.fi/liittyma/hankinta/laajakaista/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sjsdm" Subject: MtMan-List: Test Date: 11 Apr 2004 13:49:12 -0500 Been quiet for a while: have I been booted off, or is everyone out and about? Happy Easter, Scott C sjsdm@conpoint.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kim-Ken Carpenter" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Test Date: 11 Apr 2004 12:02:02 -0700 test received. have a nice day > [Original Message] > From: sjsdm > To: AMM List > Date: 4/11/2004 11:53:05 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: Test > > Been quiet for a while: have I been booted off, or is everyone out and > about? > > Happy Easter, > Scott C > sjsdm@conpoint.com > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Date: 11 Apr 2004 16:12:12 EDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/11/2004 11:51:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sjsdm@conpoint.com writes: is everyone out and about? Maybe shootin' bunnies to give to the little ones' for Easter! LOL Hope everyone is having a GREAT holiday weekend. Barney Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 4/11/2004 11:51:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sjsdm@c= onpoint.com writes:
is everyone out and about?
=
Maybe shootin' bun= nies to give to the little ones' for Easter!  LOL   = ; Hope everyone is having a GREAT holiday weekend.    Barney&= nbsp; 
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jason Chasse" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Date: 11 Apr 2004 17:36:57 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C41FEB.96280FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Im here too Just got in from the shop been making throwing knives Jason ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kim-Ken Carpenter=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 3:02 PM Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Test test received. have a nice day > [Original Message] > From: sjsdm > To: AMM List > Date: 4/11/2004 11:53:05 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: Test > > Been quiet for a while: have I been booted off, or is everyone out = and > about? > > Happy Easter, > Scott C > sjsdm@conpoint.com > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C41FEB.96280FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Im here too
Just got in from the shop been making throwing knives
Jason
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kim-Ken Carpenter =
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 = 3:02=20 PM
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: = Test

test received.  have a nice day


> = [Original=20 Message]
> From: sjsdm <sjsdm@conpoint.com>
> = List <hist_text@xmission.com>
= >=20 Date: 4/11/2004 11:53:05 AM
> Subject: MtMan-List: = Test
>
>=20 Been quiet for a while: have I been booted off, or is everyone out = and
>=20 about?
>
> Happy Easter,
> Scott C
> sjsdm@conpoint.com
>
>=
>
>=20 ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xm= ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html



----------------= ------
hist_text=20 list info: http://www.xm= ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C41FEB.96280FC0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Date: 11 Apr 2004 17:09:25 -0500 Scott I noticed that the address line in your post indicated that the email was intended for the "AMM List" but, in fact, went to the mountain man list (or history list as it is called by some). Did a glitch occur in the system or do you have the mountain man list labeled in your address book as "AMM List"? There is a separate AMM discussion list for AMM members only and the dual address threw me off the track a little. Happy Easter right back at you. I have been babysitting my 27 month old grandson all day and I feel pretty good. Changed two wet diapers and fed him twice. It's a good job that I'm glad to do. Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 1:49 PM > Been quiet for a while: have I been booted off, or is everyone out and > about? > > Happy Easter, > Scott C > sjsdm@conpoint.com > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: MtMan-List: address Date: 12 Apr 2004 11:31:25 -0700 I need Gene Hickman's mailing address.... can anyone help me out? Randy Randal Bublitz rjbublitz@earthlink.net "Life is short, paddle hard..." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Spring cleanup sale Date: 16 Apr 2004 18:39:26 EDT Some of you guys might be interested. Got all sorts of stuff laying around the shop and decided to have a Scratch N' Sniff Sale. The lists I'm on will get first crack before I publish the info to my website. http://oldfoxtraders.com/saleguns/tc_sale.htm Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Gobble Gobble! Date: 18 Apr 2004 13:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Dear List, Just got done watching Night & Hale on the Outdoor Channel. They were turkey hunting. It got me to thinking about how all these guys on the Outdoor Channel are packing AND selling all the latest gizmo to get that bird or buck with. It’s amazing the guns and other gear they use now compared to when I was a kid hunting turkeys in the Missouri woods. They didn’t have hot turkey shells back then or even decoys. We shot all our turkeys back then with 2 3/4” high brass regular 4 or 6 shot shells. And killed just as many turkeys. We had only about eight calls to chose from too. Most of my buddies and me packed break open single shot .12 ga back then. 2 3/4" chambers. I got my Gobbler last Monday morning. A year and a day to last years bird. Last year I got mine on Easter Morning, this year I had Monday off so decided to go Monday instead of Easter. Hiked halfway up the mountain through and around snowdrifts up to my knees. Finally found a flock of ten birds or so but they would not respond much to my calls. Such a pretty sight, turkeys walking the snow crust. I knew the area well so figured out where they were going and ran ahead of them to ambush them. Ended up getting a 20 lb Tom with 3/4”spurs and an 8” beard. 1 ounce of #5 with 85 grains of ff. Used my old Roger Latham slate call to get them right to me. A 20 yard shot with the old fusee. Had an instant ignition and just loved the way that .20ga cracked on that cold Ponderosa covered mountainside. Don’t you just love it when a plan comes together?! Just goes to show you we don't need all that high tech crap to fill tags, just a simple weapon, experience, persistence and a little luck. I hope you guys are getting your birds too. Good luck, bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Gobble Gobble! Date: 19 Apr 2004 00:10:58 +0000 Got mine!! They sound like twin birds almost. Its been a good year around here for the turkeys, mild winter, dry spring, summer full of hoppers (in my garden anyway). Even used one of those new fangled unreliable per-suction guns. It was a bit bigger load than your fusee. probably double in gauge, double in barrel too. Nice goin bb! >From: beaverboy@sofast.net >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: Gobble Gobble! >Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:09:22 -0600 (MDT) > >Dear List, > Just got done watching Night & Hale on the Outdoor Channel. They >were turkey hunting. It got me to thinking about how all these guys >on the Outdoor Channel are packing AND selling all the latest gizmo >to get that bird or buck with. It’s amazing the guns and other gear >they use now compared to when I was a kid hunting turkeys in the >Missouri woods. They didn’t have hot turkey shells back then or >even decoys. We shot all our turkeys back then with 2 3/4” high >brass regular 4 or 6 shot shells. And killed just as many turkeys. >We had only about eight calls to chose from too. Most of my buddies >and me packed break open single shot .12 ga back then. 2 3/4" >chambers. > I got my Gobbler last Monday morning. A year and a day to last >years bird. Last year I got mine on Easter Morning, this year I had >Monday off so decided to go Monday instead of Easter. > Hiked halfway up the mountain through and around snowdrifts up to >my knees. Finally found a flock of ten birds or so but they would >not respond much to my calls. Such a pretty sight, turkeys walking >the snow crust. I knew the area well so figured out where they were >going and ran ahead of them to ambush them. > Ended up getting a 20 lb Tom with 3/4”spurs and an 8” beard. 1 >ounce of #5 with 85 grains of ff. Used my old Roger Latham slate >call to get them right to me. A 20 yard shot with the old fusee. >Had an instant ignition and just loved the way that .20ga cracked >on that cold Ponderosa covered mountainside. > Don’t you just love it when a plan comes together?! > Just goes to show you we don't need all that high tech crap to fill >tags, just a simple weapon, experience, persistence and a little >luck. > I hope you guys are getting your birds too. > Good luck, > bb > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ From must-see cities to the best beaches, plan a getaway with the Spring Travel Guide! http://special.msn.com/local/springtravel.armx ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Monte Holder" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gobble Gobble! Date: 19 Apr 2004 10:43:44 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 2:09 PM > Dear List, > Just got done watching Night & Hale on the Outdoor Channel. They > were turkey hunting. It got me to thinking about how all these guys > on the Outdoor Channel are packing AND selling all the latest gizmo > to get that bird or buck with. It's amazing the guns and other gear > they use now compared to when I was a kid hunting turkeys in the > Missouri woods. They didn't have hot turkey shells back then or > even decoys. We shot all our turkeys back then with 2 3/4" high > brass regular 4 or 6 shot shells. And killed just as many turkeys. > We had only about eight calls to chose from too. Most of my buddies > and me packed break open single shot .12 ga back then. 2 3/4" > chambers. > I got my Gobbler last Monday morning. A year and a day to last > years bird. Last year I got mine on Easter Morning, this year I had > Monday off so decided to go Monday instead of Easter. > Hiked halfway up the mountain through and around snowdrifts up to > my knees. Finally found a flock of ten birds or so but they would > not respond much to my calls. Such a pretty sight, turkeys walking > the snow crust. I knew the area well so figured out where they were > going and ran ahead of them to ambush them. > Ended up getting a 20 lb Tom with 3/4"spurs and an 8" beard. 1 > ounce of #5 with 85 grains of ff. Used my old Roger Latham slate > call to get them right to me. A 20 yard shot with the old fusee. > Had an instant ignition and just loved the way that .20ga cracked > on that cold Ponderosa covered mountainside. > Don't you just love it when a plan comes together?! > Just goes to show you we don't need all that high tech crap to fill > tags, just a simple weapon, experience, persistence and a little > luck. > I hope you guys are getting your birds too. > Good luck, > bb > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Monte Holder" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gobble Gobble! Date: 19 Apr 2004 11:08:15 -0500 Sorry, I don't know what happened on that previous post other than me being stupid. I do agree with Mr. beaverboy though, these guys put a show on TV and so everybody has to have one. How in the world could those dumb suckers ever made a living with single shot rifles and smoothbores? Good luck to all you going out to get turkeys with your smoothbores, I don't have mine together yet. When you get one, be sure to rub somebody with the autoloader 3 1/2 in mag with pistol grip synthetic etc...etc. stuff nose in it. I would take my 45 flinter but that appears to be against the law here in Missouri, so I wouldn't be able to tell anybody about it anyway. Monte Holder Saline COunty MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 2:09 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Gobble Gobble! > > > > Dear List, > > Just got done watching Night & Hale on the Outdoor Channel. They > > were turkey hunting. It got me to thinking about how all these guys > > on the Outdoor Channel are packing AND selling all the latest gizmo > > to get that bird or buck with. It's amazing the guns and other gear > > they use now compared to when I was a kid hunting turkeys in the > > Missouri woods. They didn't have hot turkey shells back then or > > even decoys. We shot all our turkeys back then with 2 3/4" high > > brass regular 4 or 6 shot shells. And killed just as many turkeys. > > We had only about eight calls to chose from too. Most of my buddies > > and me packed break open single shot .12 ga back then. 2 3/4" > > chambers. > > Don't you just love it when a plan comes together?! > > Just goes to show you we don't need all that high tech crap to fill > > tags, just a simple weapon, experience, persistence and a little > > luck. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart Family" Subject: MtMan-List: Shooting Contests Date: 20 Apr 2004 21:58:40 -0600 Folks, another question: What do you have as history on different types of shooting games/challenges that would be accomplished at rendezvous? I am interested in how they showed their marksmanship skills while hanging out together. Ed "Brother Bear" Stuart ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Darilek" Subject: MtMan-List: Shooting Contests Date: 21 Apr 2004 07:37:39 -0500 Good question about mountaineers shooting contests. The only thing I remember was "shooting at marks." I thought I had seen those words somewhere else, but when I searched Dean Rudy's web site I found from Ruxton: "Scattered about were tents and shanties of logs and branches of every conceivable form, round which lounged wild-looking Missourians, some cooking at the camp-fires, some cleaning their rifles or firing at targets-blazes cut in the trees, with a bull's-eye made with wet powder on the white bark. From morning till night the camp resounded with the popping of rifles, firing at marks for prizes of tobacco, or at any living creature which presented itself." This was in 1846 and while at a rendezvous of sorts, was not at one of the northern rendezvous we think of as the fur trade rendezvous. Glenn Darilek Iron Burner >Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:58:40 -0600 >From: "Stuart Family" >Subject: MtMan-List: Shooting Contests >Folks, another question: What do you have as history on different types of >shooting games/challenges that would be accomplished at rendezvous? I am >interested in how they showed their marksmanship skills while hanging out >together. >Ed "Brother Bear" Stuart ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kim-Ken Carpenter" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Shooting Contests Date: 21 Apr 2004 06:16:45 -0700 There was a pretty good "shooting contest" at the end of the '32 rendezvous in Pierre's Hole (now Teton Basin). > [Original Message] > From: Stuart Family > To: > Date: 4/20/2004 9:01:06 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Shooting Contests > > Folks, another question: What do you have as history on different types of > shooting games/challenges that would be accomplished at rendezvous? I am > interested in how they showed their marksmanship skills while hanging out > together. > > Ed "Brother Bear" Stuart > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: shooting contests Date: 21 Apr 2004 08:38:04 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C4277B.F66855B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brother Bear asked, I believe the most popular contest, from what I have read, was = shooting a single shot at an 'X' scratched onto a fire blackened board. = The one closest to the center won. Personally, I believe that we shoot many-many more rounds in a year = than a Mountain Man or Frontiersman would have 'back then'. We shoot = for recreation, they shot mostly only from necessity. And both powder = and lead were scarce and expensive commodities. Frank ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C4277B.F66855B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Brother Bear asked, <What do you have as history on different = types=20 of
shooting games/challenges that would be accomplished at = rendezvous? =20 I am
interested in how they showed their marksmanship skills while = hanging=20 out
together.>
    I believe the most popular contest, from what I = have=20 read, was shooting a single shot at an 'X' scratched onto a fire = blackened=20 board. The one closest to the center won.
    Personally, I believe that we shoot many-many = more=20 rounds in a year than a Mountain Man or Frontiersman would have 'back=20 then'.  We shoot for recreation, they shot mostly only from = necessity. And=20 both powder and lead were scarce and expensive commodities.
Frank
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C4277B.F66855B0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting contests Date: 21 Apr 2004 11:28:50 EDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/21/2004 6:38:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com writes: And both powder and lead were scarce and expensive commodities. Exactly! From what I remember, most of the 'contests' involved physical strength, speed, horsemanship, gambling, etc. Granted there must have been challenges (probably alcohol induced) ;) that involved shooting, but common sense (which isn't so common) tells us that men in the mountains didn't 'waste' bullets and powder on target-shooting as we do today. Barney Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 4/21/2004 6:38:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Rifleman= 1776@cox-internet.com writes:
And both powder and lead were scarce and expen= sive commodities.
Exactly! From what= I remember, most of the 'contests' involved physical strengt= h, speed, horsemanship, gambling, etc.
&n= bsp;
Granted there must= have been challenges (probably alcohol induced) ;) that involved shoot= ing, but common sense (which isn't so common) tells us that men in the mount= ains didn't 'waste' bullets and powder on target-shooting as we do today.
&n= bsp;
Barney
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting contests Date: 21 Apr 2004 20:01:18 -0600 (MDT) Dear List, It's interesting that you mention the "waste bullets and powder". As I read the "Rendezvous Reader" it amazed me how many times the trappers shot off their guns as they charged on their horses in excitement at seeing someone, a landmark or a waterhole. I love shooting my gun too but I wouldn't want to clean it that much. Also, if you read "Captured by the Indians" you might notice a few too many misfires that cost people their freedom (or death) at the hands of the savages. bb > In a message dated 4/21/2004 6:38:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com writes: > And both powder and lead were scarce and expensive commodities. > Exactly! From what I remember, most of the 'contests' involved physical > strength, speed, horsemanship, gambling, etc. > > Granted there must have been challenges (probably alcohol induced) ;) that > involved shooting, but common sense (which isn't so common) tells us that > men in > the mountains didn't 'waste' bullets and powder on target-shooting as we > do > today. > > Barney > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Drunken Grizzlies Date: 21 Apr 2004 21:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Dear List, Drove over Marias Pass today and went by the big 29 train car derailment down the side of the mountain. 29 cars loaded with corn from Iowa! What a mess that was! They clean it up as much as they can but they can't get it all. The Grizzlies will eat the fermented corn in a month or so and get drunk!! Think your brother-in-law is a bear when he gets drunk!!! Drunk Grizzlies! You got to love that! bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Gobble Gobble! Date: 21 Apr 2004 21:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Nice Goin to you Sean! I'm glad you got your bird too! Doesn't sound like too many others have gotten their birds yet. Missouri's season just opened last Monday though. I think Montana might be a week or two earlier than others states. Looking forward to shooting at Wild Horse. We can tell each other fish tales when there. bb > Got mine!! They sound like twin birds almost. Its been a good year around > here for the turkeys, mild winter, dry spring, summer full of hoppers (in > my garden anyway). Even used one of those new fangled unreliable > per-suction > guns. It was a bit bigger load than your fusee. probably double in gauge, > double in barrel too. Nice goin bb! > > >>From: beaverboy@sofast.net >>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>To: hist_text@xmission.com >>Subject: MtMan-List: Gobble Gobble! >>Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:09:22 -0600 (MDT) >> >>Dear List, >> Just got done watching Night & Hale on the Outdoor Channel. They >>were turkey hunting. It got me to thinking about how all these guys >>on the Outdoor Channel are packing AND selling all the latest gizmo >>to get that bird or buck with. It’s amazing the guns and other gear >>they use now compared to when I was a kid hunting turkeys in the >>Missouri woods. They didn’t have hot turkey shells back then or >>even decoys. We shot all our turkeys back then with 2 3/4” high >>brass regular 4 or 6 shot shells. And killed just as many turkeys. >>We had only about eight calls to chose from too. Most of my buddies >>and me packed break open single shot .12 ga back then. 2 3/4" >>chambers. >> I got my Gobbler last Monday morning. A year and a day to last >>years bird. Last year I got mine on Easter Morning, this year I had >>Monday off so decided to go Monday instead of Easter. >> Hiked halfway up the mountain through and around snowdrifts up to >>my knees. Finally found a flock of ten birds or so but they would >>not respond much to my calls. Such a pretty sight, turkeys walking >>the snow crust. I knew the area well so figured out where they were >>going and ran ahead of them to ambush them. >> Ended up getting a 20 lb Tom with 3/4”spurs and an 8” beard. 1 >>ounce of #5 with 85 grain ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amm1616@comcast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shooting Contests Date: 22 Apr 2004 03:55:00 +0000 Ed, Here are a few entries that I pulled up on shooting at marks and why the mountaineers shoot off their guns. These mostly came from the manuscript of my second book, which should be out shortly. I hope they help. mike. ...in the mean time all fire arms are being examined, shot off and reloaded to be all in readiness for an attack. And we are well prepared for it; all the wagoners are well armed, William and the Dctr’s company, and within our little tent we have twelve sure rounds, a double-barreled shot gun, a pair of holster and one pair of belt pistols, Susan Magoffin, p. 193, 1847 On the 8th [10th] of March 1824 [1823] all things ready we shoved off from the shore fired a swivel which was answered by a Shout from the shore which we returned with a will and porceed up stream under sail James Clyman, p. 9, 1823 [at the rendezvous]Here we found the hunting Parties all assembled waiting for the arrival of Supplies from the States. Here presented what might be termed a mixed multitude The whites were chiefly Americans and Canadian French with some Dutch, Scotch, Irish, English, halfbreed, and full blood Indians, of nearly every tribe in the Rocky Mountains. Some were gambling at Cards some playing the Indian game of hand and others horse racing while here and there could be seen small groups collected under shady trees relating the events of the past year all in good Spirits and health for Sickness is a Stranger seldom met with in these regions. Sheep Elk Deer Buffaloe and Bear Skins mostly supply the Mountaineers with clothing bedding and lodges while the meat of the same animals supplies them with food. They have not the misfortune to get any of the luxuries from the civilized world but once a year and then in such small quantities that they last but a few days. Osborne Russell, pp. 58-59, 1837 We were upon the water this morning at half past three, were more than two hours ashore for breakfast, reached the mouth of the Cowlitz River at noon and encamped for the night at 5 o’clock when we all turned out to a target and were at complete counters. It was rifles against guns and guns against rifles… If we continued on at this rate, thought I, we may like the Bow Bell Train bands, so far improve as to be enabled to discharge our pieces without blinking. Francis Ermatinger, p. 99, 1828 A small Cannon brought up from St Louis was loaded and fired for a salute. Jedediah Smith, p. 197, 1827 July 4th We travelled a short distance to-day when on arriving at a large spring of most delicious water situated in a beautiful grove, where we concluded to spend the National Anniversary of American Independence; and accordingly our hunters went out in the afternoon and killed several very fat buffalo, which were dressed and the choice parts prepared for a grand feast on the morrow. When the morn of the glorious fourth first dawned we gave three salutes, spent the morning in various kinds of amusement, and at noon partook of our national dinner, which was relished the better as we had a small portion of good old brandy, which we drank in a few minutes, deeply regretting that we had not a small portion of what was that day destroyed by the millions of freemen in the States.— The remainder of the day was celebrated by drinking toasts, singing songs, shooting at mark, running, jumping and practising on our horses—having the two Spaniards still with us, who learned us many singular pranks, and were a valuable addition to our company, as they created a great deal of fun, and were always in a good humor. Zenas Leonard, pp. 216-17, 1834 July 28th Before he went off, however, Mr. M’Lellan, to show him [an Indian who was captured] the effects of fire-arms in the hands of the whites, set up a piece of board, with a white spot on it, only two inches in diameter, and in three successive shots, at a hundred yards distance, with his rifle he pierced the bull’s eye; then stopping up the holes of two of the shots, put a hazel-nut in the third, and broke it with two successive shots at the same distance. Alexander Ross, p. 198, 1812 After the pipes were extinguished, all agreed to have a frolic shooting at a mark which occupied the remainder of the day… Osborne Russell, pp. 114-6 > Folks, another question: What do you have as history on different types of > shooting games/challenges that would be accomplished at rendezvous? I am > interested in how they showed their marksmanship skills while hanging out > together. > > Ed "Brother Bear" Stuart > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John McKee" Subject: MtMan-List: Re Drunken Grizzlies & a question Date: 22 Apr 2004 08:18:45 -0500 BB, It's good to see that our Iowa corn is getting a different use than it was intended for! It also looks like it will make for a good turkey harvest in the years to come too. By the way BB, what is a good set for the two muskrats that have just invaded my pond? I understand from the locals that muskrats are hell on the pond damns and I want to send them to their great reward ASAP. Thanks for any info. John The Stitchin' Scotsman 100% Handsewn Elkhide garments and moccasins Manu Forti www.stitchinscotsman.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:09 PM Dear List, Drove over Marias Pass today and went by the big 29 train car derailment down the side of the mountain. 29 cars loaded with corn from Iowa! What a mess that was! They clean it up as much as they can but they can't get it all. The Grizzlies will eat the fermented corn in a month or so and get drunk!! Think your brother-in-law is a bear when he gets drunk!!! Drunk Grizzlies! You got to love that! bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re muskrat sets Date: 22 Apr 2004 03:10:35 -0500 I personally like a drownding set---and i like to use fresh apple for a bait on a stick over the trap---tye the chain to a rock with wire and keep a leg of wire off it about 10 ft long ty this to the bank muskrat gets in the trap and goes for deep water and the rock will drownd it to retreve just grab the wire and pull him in and reset---can catch several off the same set without tearing up the souroundings--- hawk ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re muskrat sets Date: 23 Apr 2004 22:17:12 -0600 (MDT) That's as good a rat set as any. I personally prefer float sets and colony traps for rats but Hawk's set will catch your rats as well as any set. A good trap to use is a #1 or #1 1/2 single longspring Stoploss trap. It is made just for rats caught on shore. (thats if you have to buy one) Remember, live rats in traps are mean little critters, shoot first, interrogate him afterwards. The spilled corn that might ferment is up in the big mountains, no turkeys up there that I know of. I read in the paper too that they really clean up the corn good to keep the bears from eating it. The drunk Grizzlies get hit by trains and that's not good. No more turkey hunting stories out there? Season is pretty new yet I suppose. bb > I personally like a drownding set---and i like to use fresh apple for a > bait on a stick over the trap---tye the chain to a rock with wire and > keep a leg of wire off it about 10 ft long ty this to the bank muskrat > gets in the trap and goes for deep water and the rock will drownd it to > retreve just grab the wire and pull him in and reset---can catch several > off the same set without tearing up the souroundings--- > > hawk > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Angela Gottfred" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Drunken Grizzlies Date: 23 Apr 2004 22:57:08 -0600 << Drove over Marias Pass today and went by the big 29 train car = derailment down the side of the mountain. 29 cars loaded with corn from Iowa! What a = mess that was! They clean it up as much as they can but they can't get it all.=20 The Grizzlies will eat the fermented corn in a month or so and get = drunk!! Think your brother-in-law is a bear when he gets drunk!!! Drunk Grizzlies! You got to love that!>> I thought there weren't enough grizz in the U.S. to spare to train = collisions? Cause that's what's bound to happen when they get drunk by the railroad = tracks.=20 Parks Canada got so upset with the death rate of wildlife--especially bears--along the train tracks through Banff National Park (lured there = by spilled grain) that they made CPRail, who owns that rail line, construct = a special rail-mounted vacuum cleaner to hoover it all up. Your very humble & most obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Drunken Grizzlies Date: 23 Apr 2004 23:50:03 -0600 (MDT) Angela, You are correct. We have told the Grizzlies down here in the States not to get drunk but you know how males are! BNSF did mention in the article that they clean up the area as "pristine" as before the derailment. This is a big change from a few years ago when the bears got hit by trains. I think the Grizzlies are putting rocks on the tracks to derail the the trains. My son and I had a great time visiting Canada (Alberta) last summer. We wanted to hike to the top of the mountain in Banff that has the gondola ride up it but a Griz was on the trail and a Park Ranger would not allow anyone up it. My son was happy to not have to hike up the mountain.(secretly, so was I!) We took the gondola up instead. By the way, in case you haven't heard it lately, we love our neighbors to the North! God Bless Canada and our allies Great Britain too. We couldn't have better friends and neighbors! Sincerely, bb > << Drove over Marias Pass today and went by the big 29 train car > derailment down > the side of the mountain. 29 cars loaded with corn from Iowa! What a mess > that > was! They clean it up as much as they can but they can't get it all. > The Grizzlies will eat the fermented corn in a month or so and get > drunk!! > Think your brother-in-law is a bear when he gets drunk!!! > Drunk Grizzlies! You got to love that!>> > > I thought there weren't enough grizz in the U.S. to spare to train > collisions? > Cause that's what's bound to happen when they get drunk by the railroad > tracks. > > Parks Canada got so upset with the death rate of wildlife--especially > bears--along the train tracks through Banff National Park (lured there by > spilled grain) that they made CPRail, who owns that rail line, construct a > special rail-mounted vacuum cleaner to hoover it all up. > > Your very humble & most obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need Help Date: 25 Apr 2004 11:58:35 EDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I bought an old musket. it's a 69 cal., three band. All the people have been able to tell me is it is pre 1816. The only markings on it are a P M on top of the barrel and under that is B C 1817. it has a bannet stud and no rear site. I can provide photos if needed. Thanks for the help Ridge pole aka Joe Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I bought an old musket. it's a 69 cal., three band.  All the peopl= e have been able to tell me is it is pre 1816.  The only markings on it= are a P M  on top of the barrel and under that is B C 1817. it has a b= annet stud and no rear site.  I can provide photos if needed.
 
              &n= bsp;               &n= bsp;     Thanks for the help
 
              &n= bsp;               &n= bsp;         Ridge pole aka Joe
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need Help Date: 25 Apr 2004 16:54:22 EDT --part1_d7.8d81a10.2dbd7f7e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/25/04 8:59:24 AM, TrapRJoe@aol.com writes: > > I can provide photos if needed. > > > Joe.... send me a couple jpg's. I've got a couple good books on early muskets (US Martial Flintlocks for one) so mebbe I can find it. Magpie > --part1_d7.8d81a10.2dbd7f7e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 4/25/04 8:59:24 AM, TrapRJoe@aol.com writes:



I can provide photos if needed.


Joe.... send me a couple jpg's. I've got a couple good books= on early muskets (US Martial Flintlocks for one) so mebbe I can find it.
Magpie
--part1_d7.8d81a10.2dbd7f7e_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Source of Braintan Date: 28 Apr 2004 00:08:39 EDT --part1_da.9096a91.2dc08847_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello list, Looking for a good reliabe source of braintan hides. Wes Housler is busy with buff. robes . Also looking to see if anyone has made any shirts , breeches, leggins or pants out of antelope brain tan. From what I have read it is a durable lightweight hide to use.....your thoughts....I have read accounts where antelope was used. Frank Sablan Midland,Texas --part1_da.9096a91.2dc08847_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello list,
Looking for a good reliabe source of braintan hides.  Wes Housler is bu= sy with buff. robes .  Also looking to see if anyone has made any shirt= s , breeches, leggins or pants out of antelope brain tan.  From what I=20= have read it is a durable lightweight hide to use.....your thoughts....I hav= e read accounts where antelope was used.

Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas --part1_da.9096a91.2dc08847_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Source of Braintan Date: 27 Apr 2004 21:58:32 -0700 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Frank, check out the liner classifieds in Muzzle Loader magazine...... Oliver McCloskey out of Cedar City Utah. I've bought his hides, they are about as cheap as you can find. They aren't as fine as you might find, but for the price they are a bargain. Yfab, Randy ----- Original Message ----- Sent: 4/27/04 9:08:39 PM Hello list, Looking for a good reliabe source of braintan hides. Wes Housler is busy with buff. robes . Also looking to see if anyone has made any shirts , breeches, leggins or pants out of antelope brain tan. From what I have read it is a durable lightweight hide to use.....your thoughts....I have read accounts where antelope was used. Frank Sablan Midland,Texas ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Frank, check out the liner classifieds in Muzzle Loader magazine...... Oliver McCloskey out of Cedar City Utah.  I've bought his hides, they are about as cheap as you can find.  They aren't as fine as you might find, but for the price they are a bargain.  Yfab, Randy
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 4/27/04 9:08:39 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Source of Braintan

Hello list,
Looking for a good reliabe source of braintan hides.  Wes Housler is busy with buff. robes .  Also looking to see if anyone has made any shirts , breeches, leggins or pants out of antelope brain tan.  From what I have read it is a durable lightweight hide to use.....your thoughts....I have read accounts where antelope was used.

Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Source of Braintan Date: 28 Apr 2004 02:58:04 EDT --part1_6b.281257aa.2dc0affc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank As for antelope they are offal thin and smaller to work with. I think they would be good to use for an under shirt or something like that. I've tanned a few but have only used them for bags and small projects. I always thought of them as being to thin for cloths. They might be cooler to ware in real hot weather but again I do not think they would hold up to much hard use. For hides Like Randy said Oliver McCloskey is a good one to get a hold of and it is hard to bet his prices. If ya don't mind paying a little more and getting some finer hides get a hold of Jean Heinbuch at box 444 Clark Fork, Id 83811. Jean and Ron put out some fine hides they may cost a little more then Oliver's but their hides are worth it. Ether way you won't go wrong for Brain Tan is the only way to go in my book. See ya down the trail Crazy Cyot --part1_6b.281257aa.2dc0affc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Frank
As for antelope they are offal thin and smaller to work with. I think th= ey would be good to use for an under shirt or something like that.  I'v= e tanned a few but have only used them for bags and small projects. I always= thought of them as being to thin for cloths.
They might be cooler to ware in real hot weather but again I do not thin= k they would hold up to much hard use.
For hides Like Randy said Oliver McCloskey is a good one to get a hold o= f and it is hard to bet his prices.
If ya don't mind paying a little more and getting some finer hides get a= hold of Jean Heinbuch at box 444 Clark Fork, Id 83811. Jean and Ron put out= some fine hides they may cost a little more then Oliver's but their hides a= re worth it.
Ether way you won't go wrong for Brain Tan is the only way to go in my b= ook.
See ya down the trail
Crazy Cyot
--part1_6b.281257aa.2dc0affc_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Source of Braintan Date: 28 Apr 2004 03:01:54 EDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/27/2004 9:13:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, JOAQUINQS@aol.com writes: Looking for a good reliabe source of braintan hides Frank, Have you tried braintan.com? It's Matt & Michelle Richards (From Deerskins To Buckskins IIRC) company and they sell some purty hides. Deer, Elk, Moose, Buffler, etc... Barney Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 4/27/2004 9:13:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, JOAQUINQ= S@aol.com writes:
Looking for a good reliabe source of=20= braintan hides
Frank, Have you tr= ied braintan.com? It's Matt & Michelle Richards (From Deerskins To Bucks= kins IIRC) company and they sell some purty hides. Deer, Elk, Moos= e, Buffler, etc...    Barney
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Source of Braintan Date: 28 Apr 2004 09:20:58 EDT --part1_1d1.1f75c764.2dc109ba_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 04/28/2004 12:58:43 AM Mountain Daylight Time, GazeingCyot@cs.com writes: > As for antelope they are offal thin and smaller to work with. I think they > would be good to use for an under shirt or something like that. Well "offal" means guts and that thin would be awful thin. Read again the writings of Osbourn Russell where he tells that it is far more comfortable to be wet in a cloth shirt than one of leather. He goes on to say that if the shirt must be of leather, antelope is the prefered material. Osbourn was not ALL mountain men, but he WAS there. One nice thing about Jean's hides is that she smokes them on both sides - not just one like most Indians today. Dick James --part1_1d1.1f75c764.2dc109ba_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 04/28/2= 004 12:58:43 AM Mountain Daylight Time, GazeingCyot@cs.com writes:


As for antelope they are offal=20= thin and smaller to work with. I think they would be good to use for an unde= r shirt or something like that. 


Well "offal" means guts and that thin would be awful thin.  Read again=20= the writings of Osbourn Russell where he tells that it is far more comfortab= le to be wet in a cloth shirt than one of leather.  He goes on to say t= hat if the shirt must be of leather, antelope is the prefered material. = ; Osbourn was not ALL mountain men, but he WAS there. 

One nice thing about Jean's hides is that she smokes them on both sides - no= t just one like most Indians today.

Dick James --part1_1d1.1f75c764.2dc109ba_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Source of Braintan Date: 28 Apr 2004 10:33:48 EDT --part1_aa.2b460dcd.2dc11acc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brother James I think you will find that I said an under shirt that would mean shirt not frock coat. That would be the only garment that I would think antelope would work for. It is far too thin to use as breeches, leggins or pants. Osbourn Also says that some men were dressed in nothing but leather and had no garments of cloth. If I was going to ware two layers of leather then I would try making the shirt out of antelope as Osbourn mentions. This is not something I have done for the same reasons you and Osbourn have mentioned when wet a cloth shirt are more comfortable to ware. As for the smoking of only one side of the hide. I do not know if this is done by most Indians today or not. I do know that it is what is done by the Sho-Bans here at Fort Hall nowadays. From who I learn to tan hides the reason I was given for doing this by one of elderly ladies I learned to tan from. Was that it was to show respect to the Animal they only smoke the hair side. For that is the side that had color on it in life and they should never use an animals skin inside out. That is why they make there out fits with the hair side or smoked side out. I do not know if this is something that is just being done by them nowadays or not. I have found that if the hides are smoked long enough that the color starts to show through the hide then it is well smoked and the smoking does it job. This is why all the hides I have tanned over the years have only been smoked on one side out of respect of the tribe I learned to tan from and for the reason I was given for doing this. Dose smoking both sides make a difference? I would not know for I have never done this to know if there is a difference. I do know that I have got a lot of miles out of my hides that have been smoked on only one side. I thought I would share the reason I was given for doing it that way. Crazy Cyot --part1_aa.2b460dcd.2dc11acc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brother James
I think you will find that I said an under shirt that would mean shirt n= ot frock coat.
That would be the only garment that I would think antelope would work fo= r. It is far too thin to use as breeches, leggins or pants. Osbourn Also say= s that some men were dressed in nothing but leather and had no garments of c= loth. If I was going to ware two layers of leather then I would try making t= he shirt out of antelope as Osbourn mentions. This is not something I have d= one for the same reasons you and Osbourn have mentioned when wet a cloth shi= rt are more comfortable to ware.

As for the smoking of only one side of the hide. I do not know if this i= s done by most Indians today or not. I do know that it is what is done by th= e Sho-Bans here at Fort Hall nowadays. From who I learn to tan hides the rea= son I was given for doing this by one of elderly ladies I learned to tan fro= m. Was that it was to show respect to the Animal they only smoke the hair si= de. For that is the side that had color on it in life and they should never=20= use an animals skin inside out. That is why they make there out fits with th= e hair side or smoked side out.
I do not know if this is something that is just being done by them nowad= ays or not.
I have found that if the hides are smoked long enough that the color sta= rts to show through the hide then it is well smoked and the smoking does it=20= job.
This is why all the hides I have tanned over the years have only been sm= oked on one side out of respect of the tribe I learned to tan from and for t= he reason I was given for doing this.
Dose smoking both sides make a difference? I would not know for I have n= ever done this to know if there is a difference. I do know that I have got a= lot of miles out of my hides that have been smoked on only one side.=20
I thought I would share the reason I was given for doing it that way.
Crazy Cyot
=20
--part1_aa.2b460dcd.2dc11acc_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Source of Braintan Date: 28 Apr 2004 08:45:36 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C42CFD.2D2230E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have used Oliver's hides and they are great, most are a nice grayish = to light brown color. I think that he uses mountain juniper to smoke. I = also have two other sources I like: 1.. Here are two more sources: Mike "Dirty Shirt" Rider has some of = the finest hides around, a nice golden brown color: 2263 Gold Creek = Ridge Road, Sandpoint, ID 83864. 2.. I've also gotten some really nice hides from Patrick Newton. His = hides are lighter in color to an almost white: pnewton2@yaho.com. As Always,=20 Your Obedient Servant,=20 =20 Gene "Bead Shooter" Hickman ----- Original Message -----=20 From: LivingInThePast@aol.com=20 In a message dated 4/27/2004 9:13:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, = JOAQUINQS@aol.com writes: Looking for a good reliabe source of braintan hides ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C42CFD.2D2230E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have used Oliver's hides and they are great, most are a nice = grayish=20 to light brown color. I think that he uses mountain juniper to = smoke. I=20 also have two other sources I like:
  1.  Here are two more sources: Mike "Dirty Shirt" Rider has some = of the=20 finest hides around, a nice golden brown color: 2263 Gold Creek Ridge = Road,=20 Sandpoint, ID 83864.
  2. I've also gotten some really nice hides from Patrick Newton. His = hides are=20 lighter in color to an almost white: pnewton2@yaho.com.
As Always,
Your Obedient Servant,
 
Gene "Bead = Shooter"=20 Hickman
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 LivingInThePast@aol.com =
 
In a message dated 4/27/2004 9:13:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, JOAQUINQS@aol.com writes:
Looking for a good reliabe source of braintan=20 hides
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C42CFD.2D2230E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Angela Gottfred" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Source of Braintan Date: 28 Apr 2004 10:29:12 -0600 > Looking for a good reliabe source of braintan hides. Wes Housler is busy > with buff. robes . He's based here in Canada, but Billy Metcalf sold me a beautiful braintan deer hide about 18 months ago. Now he has a website: www.buckskins.ca I was very pleased with his service. Your very humble & most obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: source of braintan response Date: 28 Apr 2004 21:22:54 EDT --part1_c8.46affd92.2dc1b2ee_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks everyone for your input, I can always count on the list for providing much needed information. BTW..I have searched braintan.com, they have recently updated thier site and I couldnt find thier list of tanners. Frank Sablan Midland,Texas --part1_c8.46affd92.2dc1b2ee_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks everyone for your input, I c= an always count on the list for providing much needed information.

BTW..I have searched braintan.com, they have recently updated thier site and= I couldnt find thier list of tanners.

Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas --part1_c8.46affd92.2dc1b2ee_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: source of braintan response Date: 28 Apr 2004 21:30:09 EDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/28/2004 6:23:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, JOAQUINQS@aol.com writes: I have searched braintan.com, they have recently updated thier site and I couldnt find thier list of tanners Frank, They brain their hides themselves and sell them direct. Barn Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 4/28/2004 6:23:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, JOAQUINQ= S@aol.com writes:
I have searched braintan.com, they ha= ve recently updated thier site and I couldnt find thier list of tanners
Frank, They brain&= nbsp;their hides themselves and sell them direct. Barn<= /DIV> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: Colonial Market Fair in WV Date: 30 Apr 2004 22:22:59 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C42F01.B1DF7120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for the "cross-posting", but it is easier this way. :) Vicki and I just got back from the Colonial Market Fair at Jacksons Mill = in Weston, WV and did GREAT!! The event was sponsored by Rick and Linda = Blizard. Last we heard when they were not going to have a Fort Fred any = more, so Rick and Linda set this one up. IT WAS GREAT!!! :) Not many vendors ( 8 I think) and about 100 campers, = but the public was out in force. We did better with the store in 4 days = than we did at all of SouthEastern in 10 days!! The Mill treats us = great too. Nice flat areas, hooters, water, wood, ice... everything you = could want. The area is lighted and for the "early set up" nights, the = lights were on until 11 PM on the first night, and 9 PM on the secone = night for those late arrivals.=20 Due to houses near by, there was no shooting, but there was Knife and = Hawk and Archery, and we even managed to have the Clann of the Wolf = Highland Games. Not too bad... 7 participants too :) Ahem... this old = phart judged and kept score.... I remember why I quit "playing" when I = hefted the caber... Missed seeing Fred Cox and the rest of the = MLMLers... Guess I can't have everything though.=20 Regards, Ad and Vicki Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C42F01.B1DF7120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry for the "cross-posting", but it is easier = this way.=20 :)
 
Vicki and I just got back from the Colonial = Market Fair at=20 Jacksons Mill in Weston, WV and did GREAT!! The event was sponsored by = Rick and=20 Linda Blizard. Last we heard when they were not going to have a Fort = Fred any=20 more, so Rick and Linda set this one up.
 
IT WAS GREAT!!! :)  Not many vendors ( 8 I = think) and=20 about 100 campers, but the public was out in force. We did better with = the store=20 in 4 days than we did at all of SouthEastern in 10 days!!  The Mill = treats=20 us great too. Nice flat areas, hooters, water, wood, ice... everything = you could=20 want. The area is lighted and for the "early set up" nights, the lights = were on=20 until 11 PM on the first night, and 9 PM on the secone night for those = late=20 arrivals.
 
Due to houses near by, there was no shooting, = but there=20 was Knife and Hawk and Archery, and we even managed to have the Clann of = the=20 Wolf Highland Games. Not too bad... 7 participants too :)  Ahem... = this old=20 phart judged and kept score.... I remember why I quit "playing" when I = hefted=20 the caber... <grins>  Missed seeing Fred Cox and the rest of = the=20 MLMLers... Guess I can't have everything though.
 
Regards,
 
Ad and Vicki Miller
 
------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C42F01.B1DF7120-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: North Star West Guns Date: 30 Apr 2004 23:00:56 -0600 (MDT) Dear List, Went to the Great Falls Montana Gun Show today. Walked up and down row after row of mostly modern crapola when almost to the end I came to a table loaded with five or six very fine smoothbores! Turned out to be North Star West's table! Matt Denison was there with some fine examples of his guns and two pistols. I have to say that North Star guns have improved even more since I bought mine 7 years or so ago. The Officer's Model Musket is a dandy of a musket. Will make a fine turkey killer. The Trade Gun is as good as ever too. If any of you were wondering about North Star West guns, I know I bragged mine up and now they're even better! You can't beat them. bb http://www.northstarwest.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html