From: "DOUBLE EDGE FORGE" Subject: MtMan-List: Site update Date: 01 Jul 2004 10:41:35 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C45F57.FB465320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all, I have a couple of new stickers on the site. Nothing fancy. More to = come soon=20 www.bright,net/~deforge1 Thanks D Double Edge Forge ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C45F57.FB465320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey all,
 
  I have a couple of new = stickers on=20 the site. Nothing fancy. More to come soon
 
www.bright,net/~deforge1=
 
Thanks
 
D
Double Edge = Forge
 
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C45F57.FB465320-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DOUBLE EDGE FORGE" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: Site update/ OOPS Date: 01 Jul 2004 10:43:53 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C45F58.4DC603C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can't type this morning. http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/ D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DOUBLE EDGE FORGE=20 To: ammlist@lists.xmission.com ; hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:41 AM Subject: AMM-List: Site update Hey all, I have a couple of new stickers on the site. Nothing fancy. More to = come soon=20 www.bright,net/~deforge1 Thanks D Double Edge Forge ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C45F58.4DC603C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can't type this=20 morning.
 
http://www.bright.net/~= deforge1/
 
D
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 DOUBLE EDGE=20 FORGE
To: ammlist@lists.xmission.com= ; hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 = 10:41=20 AM
Subject: AMM-List: Site = update

Hey = all,
 
  I have a couple of new = stickers on=20 the site. Nothing fancy. More to come soon
 
www.bright,net/~deforge1=
 
Thanks
 
D
Double Edge = Forge
 
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C45F58.4DC603C0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: blackhorse53@comcast.net Subject: MtMan-List: RMNR Date: 03 Jul 2004 19:50:37 +0000 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16003_1088884237_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone have any idea how the 2004 Delores/RMNR site is going to be like. Someone told me that there are no trees, just cactus and sagebrush. Is there a creek/river to water horses ??? I didn't give a thought to logistics due to the photos posted on the RMNR site. --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16003_1088884237_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Does anyone have any idea how the 2004 Delores/RMNR site is going to be like. Someone told me that there are no trees, just cactus and sagebrush. Is there a creek/river to water horses ??? I didn't give a thought to logistics due to the photos posted on the RMNR site.

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_16003_1088884237_0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RMNR Date: 03 Jul 2004 20:59:34 -0600 The site is treed with large Pine some scrub oak brush ( owner says we = may cut out of as much of that that we like) There are some open areas but = as much shade as you want. I was over there 2 days ago and temps. were = running 80's during the day and Don tells me he used 3 blankets that night.= There is no running water, only a small horse pond. Drinking water will = be available in large tanks at the gate. I won't say there is no cactus, = but we walked a good deal of the site and never saw any!! On Saturday, July 3, 2004 1:50 PM, blackhorse53@comcast.net wrote: >Does anyone have any idea how the 2004 Delores/RMNR site is >going to be like. Someone told me that there are=A0no trees, just >cactus and sagebrush. Is there a creek/river to water horses >??? I didn't give a thought to logistics due to the photos >posted on the RMNR site. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: blackhorse53@comcast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RMNR Date: 04 Jul 2004 13:24:56 +0000 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14757_1088947496_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the info, I was more concerned for my animal than anything else... -------------- Original message -------------- > The site is treed with large Pine some scrub oak brush ( owner says we may cut > out of as much of that that we like) There are some open areas but as much shade > as you want. I was over there 2 days ago and temps. were running 80's during the > day and Don tells me he used 3 blankets that night. There is no running water, > only a small horse pond. Drinking water will be available in large tanks at the > gate. I won't say there is no cactus, but we walked a good deal of the site and > never saw any!! > > On Saturday, July 3, 2004 1:50 PM, blackhorse53@comcast.net wrote: > >Does anyone have any idea how the 2004 Delores/RMNR site is > >going to be like. Someone told me that there are no trees, just > >cactus and sagebrush. Is there a creek/river to water horses > >??? I didn't give a thought to logistics due to the photos > >posted on the RMNR site. > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14757_1088947496_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the info, I was more concerned for my animal than anything else...
-------------- Original message --------------

> The site is treed with large Pine some scrub oak brush ( owner says we may cut
> out of as much of that that we like) There are some open areas but as much shade
> as you want. I was over there 2 days ago and temps. were running 80's during the
> day and Don tells me he used 3 blankets that night. There is no running water,
> only a small horse pond. Drinking water will be available in large tanks at the
> gate. I won't say there is no cactus, but we walked a good deal of the site and
> never saw any!!
>
> On Saturday, July 3, 2004 1:50 PM, blackhorse53@comcast.net wrote:
> >Does anyone have any idea how the 2004 Delores/RMNR site is
> >going to be like. Someone told me that there are no trees, just
> >cactus and sagebrush. Is there a creek/river to water horses
> >??? I didn't give a thought to logistics due to the photos
> >posted on the RMNR site.
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_14757_1088947496_0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Good Webpages Date: 05 Jul 2004 16:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Dear List, Do any of you know some good webpages for the beginner buckskinner or old salt. And also, does anyone have a webpage listing rendezvous dates and places? I need some good sources. What is Crazy's web page? I forgot and it and the Women of the fur trade are two good webpages. Does anyone know them? Any help on these webpages is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages Date: 05 Jul 2004 18:29:18 -0600 Crazy Coyote: http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm Poison River Party: http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/MainCamp.html Women of the Fur Trade: http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/index.htm Tetonia: http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html List of Pre-1840's Groups: http://www.living-history.net/CR1840GROUPS.HTM#Utah As Always, Your Obedient Servant, Gene Hickman ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 4:01 PM > Dear List, > Do any of you know some good webpages for the beginner buckskinner or > old salt. And also, does anyone have a webpage listing rendezvous dates > and places? I need some good sources. > What is Crazy's web page? I forgot and it and the Women of the fur > trade are two good webpages. Does anyone know them? > Any help on these webpages is greatly appreciated. > Thanks in advance. > bb > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: blackhorse53@comcast.net Subject: MtMan-List: RMNR Date: 07 Jul 2004 00:44:41 +0000 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1095_1089161081_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Who on this list is going to attend the RMNR in Colorado. I'd like to know who to look up. I had a few folks going but I need a memory refresh.. Thanks --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1095_1089161081_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Who on this list is going to attend the RMNR in Colorado. I'd like to know who to look up. I had a few folks going but I need a memory refresh.. Thanks --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1095_1089161081_0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerry Bell" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Date: 07 Jul 2004 08:08:26 -0600 I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be the last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The = chapter is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? Jerry PS. I live and work in Murray -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of = tetontodd@juno.com Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM Exhibition Jerry, YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will = copy and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and = live in Riverton.=20 Thanks! Todd ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages Date: 07 Jul 2004 22:08:20 -0600 Add a couple more I thought of SW Traders by the Jim Baker Party of the AMM. http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html As a matter of fact, it is my belief that fur trade history sets a pretty high standard as internet subjects go. A ton of free quality information. I have lost bookmarks not to long ago and don't have the one to Angela Gottfred's Northwest, Canadian voyager type site but it is another one that you really need to check out. Her husband does a remarkable job teaching skills via internet. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 6:29 PM > Crazy Coyote: > http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm > > Poison River Party: > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/MainCamp.html > > Women of the Fur Trade: > http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/index.htm > > Tetonia: > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > > List of Pre-1840's Groups: > http://www.living-history.net/CR1840GROUPS.HTM#Utah > > As Always, > Your Obedient Servant, > > Gene Hickman > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 4:01 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Good Webpages > > > > Dear List, > > Do any of you know some good webpages for the beginner buckskinner or > > old salt. And also, does anyone have a webpage listing rendezvous dates > > and places? I need some good sources. > > What is Crazy's web page? I forgot and it and the Women of the fur > > trade are two good webpages. Does anyone know them? > > Any help on these webpages is greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > bb > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages Date: 08 Jul 2004 17:20:23 +0000 You looking for this link??? http://www.northwestjournal.ca/ >From: "Wynn Ormond" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages >Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 22:08:20 -0600 > >Add a couple more I thought of > >SW Traders by the Jim Baker Party of the AMM. > >http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html > >As a matter of fact, it is my belief that fur trade history sets a pretty >high standard as internet subjects go. A ton of free quality information. >I have lost bookmarks not to long ago and don't have the one to Angela >Gottfred's Northwest, Canadian voyager type site but it is another one >that >you really need to check out. Her husband does a remarkable job teaching >skills via internet. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gene Hickman" >To: >Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 6:29 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages > > > > Crazy Coyote: > > http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm > > > > Poison River Party: > > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/MainCamp.html > > > > Women of the Fur Trade: > > http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/index.htm > > > > Tetonia: > > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > > > > List of Pre-1840's Groups: > > http://www.living-history.net/CR1840GROUPS.HTM#Utah > > > > As Always, > > Your Obedient Servant, > > > > Gene Hickman > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 4:01 PM > > Subject: MtMan-List: Good Webpages > > > > > > > Dear List, > > > Do any of you know some good webpages for the beginner buckskinner >or > > > old salt. And also, does anyone have a webpage listing rendezvous >dates > > > and places? I need some good sources. > > > What is Crazy's web page? I forgot and it and the Women of the fur > > > trade are two good webpages. Does anyone know them? > > > Any help on these webpages is greatly appreciated. > > > Thanks in advance. > > > bb > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages Date: 08 Jul 2004 22:02:04 -0500 http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm Greg Did anybody send you Crazy's web page? You can link to the Women of the Fur Trade from his page. Lanney ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 5:01 PM > Dear List, > Do any of you know some good webpages for the beginner buckskinner or > old salt. And also, does anyone have a webpage listing rendezvous dates > and places? I need some good sources. > What is Crazy's web page? I forgot and it and the Women of the fur > trade are two good webpages. Does anyone know them? > Any help on these webpages is greatly appreciated. > Thanks in advance. > bb > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: Wes Housler Date: 08 Jul 2004 21:25:36 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C46532.1C111BF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:45 AM I contacted Ken Stanley about his buffalo robe. He decided not to sell = it but keep it for his daughter. He suggested I contact Wes Housler. I = know Wes has a web site, but I lost the address. Do you know what it = is? Jerry ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C46532.1C111BF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jerry Bell=20
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:45 AM
Subject: Wes Housler

I contacted Ken Stanley = about his=20 buffalo robe.  He decided not to sell it but keep it for his=20 daughter.  He suggested I contact Wes Housler.  I know Wes has = a web=20 site, but I lost the address.  Do you know what it = is?

 

Jerry

------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C46532.1C111BF0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages Date: 08 Jul 2004 21:34:35 -0600 Thats the one. Wynn ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 11:20 AM > You looking for this link??? > > http://www.northwestjournal.ca/ > > > >From: "Wynn Ormond" > >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages > >Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 22:08:20 -0600 > > > >Add a couple more I thought of > > > >SW Traders by the Jim Baker Party of the AMM. > > > >http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html > > > >As a matter of fact, it is my belief that fur trade history sets a pretty > >high standard as internet subjects go. A ton of free quality information. > >I have lost bookmarks not to long ago and don't have the one to Angela > >Gottfred's Northwest, Canadian voyager type site but it is another one > >that > >you really need to check out. Her husband does a remarkable job teaching > >skills via internet. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Gene Hickman" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 6:29 PM > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages > > > > > > > Crazy Coyote: > > > http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm > > > > > > Poison River Party: > > > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/MainCamp.html > > > > > > Women of the Fur Trade: > > > http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/index.htm > > > > > > Tetonia: > > > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > > > > > > List of Pre-1840's Groups: > > > http://www.living-history.net/CR1840GROUPS.HTM#Utah > > > > > > As Always, > > > Your Obedient Servant, > > > > > > Gene Hickman > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 4:01 PM > > > Subject: MtMan-List: Good Webpages > > > > > > > > > > Dear List, > > > > Do any of you know some good webpages for the beginner buckskinner > >or > > > > old salt. And also, does anyone have a webpage listing rendezvous > >dates > > > > and places? I need some good sources. > > > > What is Crazy's web page? I forgot and it and the Women of the fur > > > > trade are two good webpages. Does anyone know them? > > > > Any help on these webpages is greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > bb > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > hist_text list info: > >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: Wes Housler Date: 08 Jul 2004 23:55:21 EDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here ya go.... _Braintanned Buffalo Robes, Tipis, Rawhide & Parfleche: by Wes Housler_ (http://www.braintan.com/bison/wes.html) Sleep warm, Barney Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
Here ya go....
 
 
Sleep warm, Barney
 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DOUBLE EDGE FORGE" Subject: MtMan-List: Site Update Date: 09 Jul 2004 11:07:22 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C465A4.E8BF2760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Excuse the interruption, but I have a few new knives on the site. = http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/ if you are inclined to look All trade knives and scalpers, due to your suggestions..=20 Thanks and keep 'em coming! D Double Edge Forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/ ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C465A4.E8BF2760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Excuse the interruption, but I = have a few=20 new knives on the site. http://www.bright.net/~= deforge1/   =20 if you are inclined to look
 
All trade knives and scalpers, = due to your=20 suggestions..
 
Thanks and keep 'em=20 coming!
 
D
Double Edge = Forge
http://www.bright.net/~= deforge1/
------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C465A4.E8BF2760-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mike hodges Date: 09 Jul 2004 12:58:53 -0700 (PDT) --0-490388495-1089403133=:47117 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, all. My name is Mike, and I'm new to the list. I would enjoy anyinfo on rendezvous in the Texas area. The only thing I've found so far is Ft. Parker. Looks good but I need more. I wish to learn all I can, as I never realized there was a site exclusively for amm. (I've only recently gotten a computer) Anyway thanx, and i like the feeling of friendship I've seen so far. M. Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. --0-490388495-1089403133=:47117 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hello, all. My name is Mike, and I'm new to the list.  I would enjoy anyinfo on rendezvous in the Texas area.  The only thing I've found so far is Ft. Parker.  Looks good but I need more.  I wish to learn all I can, as I never realized there was a site exclusively for amm. (I've only recently gotten a computer) Anyway thanx, and i like the feeling of friendship I've seen so far.  M.

Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. --0-490388495-1089403133=:47117-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John McKee" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Welcome Mike Date: 09 Jul 2004 15:12:23 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C465C7.2301BBF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Welcome aboard Mike......As far as Texas is concerned, there ain't no = one better informed on what that State is doing than Lanney Ratcliff in = my book. I don't think that he'll mind gettin' his brain picked. Just my two cents. John The Stitchin' Scotsman 100% Handsewn Elkhide garments and moccasins Manu Forti www.stitchinscotsman.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: mike hodges=20 To: hist_text@xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 2:58 PM Hello, all. My name is Mike, and I'm new to the list. I would enjoy = anyinfo on rendezvous in the Texas area. The only thing I've found so = far is Ft. Parker. Looks good but I need more. I wish to learn all I = can, as I never realized there was a site exclusively for amm. (I've = only recently gotten a computer) Anyway thanx, and i like the feeling of = friendship I've seen so far. M. ----- Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C465C7.2301BBF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Welcome aboard Mike......As = far as Texas=20 is concerned, there ain't no one better informed on what that State is = doing=20 than Lanney Ratcliff in my book. I don't think that he'll mind gettin' = his brain=20 picked.
Just my two = cents.    =20 John
 
 
 
 
 
The Stitchin' Scotsman
100% = Handsewn=20 Elkhide garments
and moccasins
Manu Forti
www.stitchinscotsman.com
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 mike=20 hodges
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 = 2:58 PM

Hello, all. My name is Mike, and I'm = new to the=20 list.  I would enjoy anyinfo on rendezvous in the Texas = area.  The=20 only thing I've found so far is Ft. Parker.  Looks good but I = need=20 more.  I wish to learn all I can, as I never realized there was a = site=20 exclusively for amm. (I've only recently gotten a computer) = Anyway thanx,=20 and i like the feeling of friendship I've seen so far.  = M.

Do you Yahoo!?
Take=20 Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile=20 phone. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C465C7.2301BBF0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Date: 09 Jul 2004 15:17:39 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C465C7.DF8AF660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike "The Texas area" takes in 275,416 square miles and there are lots of = rendezvous to find. Ft Parker is near the center of Texas between = Groesbeck and Mexia but there are rendezvous all over the state. Your = best bet is to contact Wooden Hawk Trading Co. = http://members.aol.com/WoodenHawk/tradingco.html and subscribe to the = Rendezvous Calendar. That is the best $9 you could possibly spend. = All the clubs in the Texas area along with contact names & phone numbers = are listed as well as dates (and often flyers) for rendezvous all over = Texas. Tell Jan that I told you to call. Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message -----=20 From: mike hodges=20 To: hist_text@xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 2:58 PM Hello, all. My name is Mike, and I'm new to the list. I would enjoy = anyinfo on rendezvous in the Texas area. The only thing I've found so = far is Ft. Parker. Looks good but I need more. I wish to learn all I = can, as I never realized there was a site exclusively for amm. (I've = only recently gotten a computer) Anyway thanx, and i like the feeling of = friendship I've seen so far. M. ----- Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C465C7.DF8AF660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mike
"The Texas area" takes in = 275,416=20 square miles and there are lots of rendezvous to find.  Ft Parker = is near=20 the center of Texas between Groesbeck and Mexia but there are rendezvous = all=20 over the state.   Your best bet is to contact Wooden Hawk = Trading Co.=20 http://members.= aol.com/WoodenHawk/tradingco.html and=20 subscribe to the Rendezvous Calendar.  That is the best $9 you = could=20 possibly spend.    All the clubs in the Texas = area along=20 with contact names & phone numbers are listed as well as dates = (and=20 often flyers) for rendezvous all over Texas.  Tell Jan that I told = you to=20 call.
Lanney = Ratcliff
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 mike=20 hodges
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 = 2:58 PM

Hello, all. My name is Mike, and I'm = new to the=20 list.  I would enjoy anyinfo on rendezvous in the Texas = area.  The=20 only thing I've found so far is Ft. Parker.  Looks good but I = need=20 more.  I wish to learn all I can, as I never realized there was a = site=20 exclusively for amm. (I've only recently gotten a computer) = Anyway thanx,=20 and i like the feeling of friendship I've seen so far.  = M.

Do you Yahoo!?
Take=20 Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile=20 phone. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C465C7.DF8AF660-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Content-Type: text/plain; Date: 09 Jul 2004 15:25:11 -0500 Mike Hodges wrote: Hello, all. My name is Mike, and I'm new to the list. I would enjoy anyinfo on rendezvous in the Texas area. The only thing I've found so far is Ft. Parker. Looks good but I need more. I wish to learn all I can, as I never realized there was a site exclusively for amm. (I've only recently gotten a computer) Anyway thanx, and i like the feeling of friendship I've seen so far. M. Mike Please contact me off list. Thanks Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVID HOFFMAN Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Date: 09 Jul 2004 14:09:06 -0700 (PDT) try these http://www.texasbuckskinner.bravepages.com/ http://www.living-history.net/CR1840GROUPS.HTM#Texas David __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cheyenne" Subject: MtMan-List: Welcome Mike Date: 09 Jul 2004 17:57:03 -0800 Welcome Mike


Even if you are a Texican.  a couple notes for you.  This site is not really just for AMM, anybody can join and a lot of the good posts you will read are from folks who are not involved with the AMM.  Secondly a lot of people are real shaky about opening email without a subject line that looks familair to them because of computer viruses and such so please put a subject line on your posts and try to avoid something to generic.

There is a wealth of knowledge here so do everyone a favor and start asking questions so we have something to argue about.

Wynn Ormond
Cache Valley

--------- Original Message --------
From: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
To: "hist_text@xmission.com" <hist_text@xmission.com>
Subject:
Date: 09/07/04 20:02

Hello, all. My name is Mike, and I'm new to the list.  I would enjoy anyinfo on rendezvous in the Texas area.  The only thing I've found so far is Ft. Parker.  Looks good but I need more.  I wish to learn all I can, as I never realized there was a site exclusively for amm. (I've only recently gotten a computer) Anyway thanx, and i like the feeling of friendship I've seen so far.  M.

Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.


________________________________________________
Message sent using pcu.net webmail 2.7.2
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "tetontodd@juno.com" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Date: 12 Jul 2004 21:41:54 GMT Jerry, Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If I could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it would be good to meet you. Thanks Todd Glover -- "Jerry Bell" wrote: I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be the last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The chapter is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? Jerry PS. I live and work in Murray -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of tetontodd@juno.com Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM Jerry, YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will copy and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and live in Riverton. Thanks! Todd ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Date: 12 Jul 2004 17:42:16 -0500 Todd, Is it appropriate to suggest the possible violation of copyright on this forum? The first question should have been: is the material copyrighted or public domain? SnakeOyl... At 04:41 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: >Jerry, > >Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If I >could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it would be >good to meet you. > >Thanks > >Todd Glover > >-- "Jerry Bell" wrote: >I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be the >last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The chapter >is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > >Jerry > >PS. I live and work in Murray > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of tetontodd@juno.com >Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > >Jerry, > >YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will copy >and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and live >in Riverton. >Thanks! > >Todd > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerry Bell" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Date: 12 Jul 2004 21:08:00 -0600 Your replay and question is well taken. The primary reason I suggested copying the document is that the University of Utah Museum of Natural History, where I got the copy, suggested I copy that chapter since it is = no longer in print. Let me know what you think. I do not want to = knowingly violate the law. Jerry -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Kramer Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:42 PM Exhibition Todd, Is it appropriate to suggest the possible violation of copyright on this = forum? The first question should have been: is the material copyrighted or = public=20 domain? SnakeOyl... At 04:41 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: >Jerry, > >Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If I = >could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it would = be=20 >good to meet you. > >Thanks > >Todd Glover > >-- "Jerry Bell" wrote: >I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be = the >last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The = chapter >is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > >Jerry > >PS. I live and work in Murray > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of = tetontodd@juno.com >Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick = Exhibition > > >Jerry, > >YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will copy >and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and live >in Riverton. >Thanks! > >Todd > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibitio Date: 12 Jul 2004 20:43:04 -0700 There is a general principle of "fair use" that permits limited copying for non-commercial purposes, with no intent of personal profit (particularly when out of print). I'm no lawyer though. Pat Quilter. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 8:08 PM Exhibition Your replay and question is well taken. The primary reason I suggested copying the document is that the University of Utah Museum of Natural History, where I got the copy, suggested I copy that chapter since it is no longer in print. Let me know what you think. I do not want to knowingly violate the law. Jerry -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Kramer Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:42 PM Todd, Is it appropriate to suggest the possible violation of copyright on this forum? The first question should have been: is the material copyrighted or public domain? SnakeOyl... At 04:41 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: >Jerry, > >Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If I >could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it would be >good to meet you. > >Thanks > >Todd Glover > >-- "Jerry Bell" wrote: >I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be the >last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The chapter >is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > >Jerry > >PS. I live and work in Murray > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of tetontodd@juno.com >Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > >Jerry, > >YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will copy >and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and live >in Riverton. >Thanks! > >Todd > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Date: 12 Jul 2004 23:03:57 -0500 Jerry, Todd, etal, I do not possess a copy of MMM, hence I do not know the date of copyright. I do know that copying out of print books is common. I also know that just because a book is out of print the copyright is not void or abandoned. Authors, heirs, publishers and/or other owners of copyrights do have legal enforceable rights that last for a great many years. Many will grant permission to copy on request, at least as many will not. There is a doctrine of fair use where short sections can be copied for reviews and quotations with attribution, to copy 50 pages goes way beyond any consideration envisioned by this doctrine. Some libraries and universities have treated copyright with a rather cavalier attitude, some to their everlasting regret. Just as some who copy music and movies have come to regret their actions. It is taking that which someone else owns without compensation or permission. I am aware of some libraries & museums that jealously guard single copy publications of great antiquity, though copyright may have expired or never been recorded, nonetheless they feel they have an exclusive and proprietary interest in the work and would be very disturbed to learn of photocopies existing outside of their care, custody and control. For many these are very touchy issues that keep lawyers living well. Primarily it is a moral question we must each answer for our self. Are we entitled to the information regardless? In any case it seems we should be especially mindful when discussing such actions in a public forum. SnakeOyl... At 10:08 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: >Your replay and question is well taken. The primary reason I suggested >copying the document is that the University of Utah Museum of Natural >History, where I got the copy, suggested I copy that chapter since it is no >longer in print. Let me know what you think. I do not want to knowingly >violate the law. > >Jerry > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Kramer >Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:42 PM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > >Todd, > >Is it appropriate to suggest the possible violation of copyright on this >forum? > >The first question should have been: is the material copyrighted or public >domain? > >SnakeOyl... > > > > >At 04:41 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: > > >Jerry, > > > >Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If I > >could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it would be > >good to meet you. > > > >Thanks > > > >Todd Glover > > > >-- "Jerry Bell" wrote: > >I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be the > >last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The chapter > >is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > > > >Jerry > > > >PS. I live and work in Murray > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of tetontodd@juno.com > >Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM > >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > > > > >Jerry, > > > >YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will >copy > >and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and >live > >in Riverton. > >Thanks! > > > >Todd > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "tom" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Date: 12 Jul 2004 22:46:25 -0600 Who cares John? It's just a little personal research for one's own info. Tom AMM#1834 > [Original Message] > From: John Kramer > To: > Date: 7/12/2004 10:03:55 PM > Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > Jerry, Todd, etal, > > I do not possess a copy of MMM, hence I do not know the date of copyright. > > I do know that copying out of print books is common. I also know that just > because a book is out of print the copyright is not void or > abandoned. Authors, heirs, publishers and/or other owners of copyrights do > have legal enforceable rights that last for a great many years. Many will > grant permission to copy on request, at least as many will not. > > There is a doctrine of fair use where short sections can be copied for > reviews and quotations with attribution, to copy 50 pages goes way beyond > any consideration envisioned by this doctrine. > > Some libraries and universities have treated copyright with a rather > cavalier attitude, some to their everlasting regret. Just as some who copy > music and movies have come to regret their actions. It is taking that > which someone else owns without compensation or permission. > > I am aware of some libraries & museums that jealously guard single copy > publications of great antiquity, though copyright may have expired or never > been recorded, nonetheless they feel they have an exclusive and proprietary > interest in the work and would be very disturbed to learn of photocopies > existing outside of their care, custody and control. For many these are > very touchy issues that keep lawyers living well. > > Primarily it is a moral question we must each answer for our self. Are we > entitled to the information regardless? > > In any case it seems we should be especially mindful when discussing such > actions in a public forum. > > SnakeOyl... > > > > > At 10:08 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: > >Your replay and question is well taken. The primary reason I suggested > >copying the document is that the University of Utah Museum of Natural > >History, where I got the copy, suggested I copy that chapter since it is no > >longer in print. Let me know what you think. I do not want to knowingly > >violate the law. > > > >Jerry > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of John Kramer > >Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:42 PM > >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > > >Todd, > > > >Is it appropriate to suggest the possible violation of copyright on this > >forum? > > > >The first question should have been: is the material copyrighted or public > >domain? > > > >SnakeOyl... > > > > > > > > > >At 04:41 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: > > > > >Jerry, > > > > > >Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If I > > >could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it would be > > >good to meet you. > > > > > >Thanks > > > > > >Todd Glover > > > > > >-- "Jerry Bell" wrote: > > >I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be the > > >last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The chapter > > >is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > > > > > >Jerry > > > > > >PS. I live and work in Murray > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of tetontodd@juno.com > > >Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM > > >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > > > > > > > >Jerry, > > > > > >YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will > >copy > > >and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and > >live > > >in Riverton. > > >Thanks! > > > > > >Todd > > > > > > > > >---------------------- > > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > >---------------------- > > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > >---------------------- > > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Date: 13 Jul 2004 00:50:22 EDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Th copyright for "Man Made Mobile" is 1980. The copyright lasts for the life of the author, plus 70 years. "Fair Use" is a privilege that allows people other than the owner of the copyright to use the copyrighted material in a reasonable manner without his consent. The reasonableness of a use is determined on a case-by-case basis applying an equitable rule of reason analysis. There are four factors in determining whether the use was a "fair use": 1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; 2) the nature of the copyrighted work; 3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and 4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. Since "Man Made Mobile" is a 147 page book, copying 50 pages, even for personal use might not meet the definintion above. Since this is a Smithsonian publication, why not write them and ask permission to use the chapter you want in the manner you describe? Jim Hardee, AMM#1676 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Th copyright for "Man Made Mobile" is 1980. The copyright lasts for the= life of the author, plus 70 years.
 
 "Fair Use" is a privilege that allows people other than the=20= owner of the copyright to use the copyrighted material in a reasonable manne= r without his consent. The reasonableness of a use is determined on a case-b= y-case basis applying an equitable rule of reason analysis. There are four f= actors in determining whether the use was a "fair use": 1) the purpose and c= haracter of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or= is for nonprofit educational purposes; 2) the nature of the copyrighted wor= k; 3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the c= opyrighted work as a whole; and 4) the effect of the use upon the potential=20= market for or value of the copyrighted work.
 
Since "Man Made Mobile" is a 147 page book, copying 50 pages, even= for personal use might not meet the definintion above. Since this is a= Smithsonian publication, why not write them and ask permission to use the c= hapter you want in the manner you describe?
 
Jim Hardee, AMM#1676
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Date: 13 Jul 2004 07:31:41 -0600 Todd, I have an original copy of MMM that the Author gave me. Ole On Monday, July 12, 2004, at 03:41 PM, tetontodd@juno.com wrote: > > Jerry, > > Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If > I could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it > would be good to meet you. > > Thanks > > Todd Glover > > -- "Jerry Bell" wrote: > I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be > the > last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The > chapter > is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > > Jerry > > PS. I live and work in Murray > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of > tetontodd@juno.com > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick > Exhibition > > > Jerry, > > YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I > will copy > and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper > and live > in Riverton. > Thanks! > > Todd > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "tetontodd@juno.com" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Date: 13 Jul 2004 13:37:13 GMT John, Point taken. I believe what Jerry has is a copy of a paper on the Renwick collection which he stated was "basically a chapter from the book. Since he obtained a copy from the museum, I see no reason to worry about copyrights. The author of the paper offered to send me a copy also. Good reminder on copyrights though... Teton -- John Kramer wrote: Todd, Is it appropriate to suggest the possible violation of copyright on this forum? The first question should have been: is the material copyrighted or public domain? SnakeOyl... At 04:41 PM 07/12/04, you wrote: >Jerry, > >Since I don't own a copy of MMM, I would like a copy of the pages. If I >could borrow yours, I could make a copy myself at work. Also, it would be >good to meet you. > >Thanks > >Todd Glover > >-- "Jerry Bell" wrote: >I finally got a coy of the Renwick Exhibition and it turns out to be the >last chapter in "Man Made Mobile". Do you have a copy of it? The chapter >is over 50 pages long. Do you still want or need a copy of it? > >Jerry > >PS. I live and work in Murray > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of tetontodd@juno.com >Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:32 AM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition > > >Jerry, > >YEs, I am an "associate" of yours. And I would like a copy. Then I will copy >and distribute to others in the area. By the way, I woork in Draper and live >in Riverton. >Thanks! > >Todd > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages Date: 15 Jul 2004 14:08:54 -0600 Hello the camp, Speaking about websites.... I need some help. In a novel I'm writing there is a scene at Fort Laramie. In trying to re-create the visual aspects of the fort I've done some searching on the internet. I've found conflicting descriptions. http://www.nps.gov/fola/laramie.htm describes it as never having a wall around it, as always being an open fort depending on its location and garrison of soldiers for protection. However another site http://www.historyglobe.com/ot/ftlaramie.htm shows a picture by Alfred J. Miller drawn in 1858 that shows a stockade around the fort ..... but the mountains in the background don't look like what I remember around Fort Laramie. In other sites I've found that it was first created in 1831 by William Sublette for trading with the Indians for buffalo robes and was made of wood poles (like the forts the movies show). Then it was sold the the American Fur Company and they rebuilt it using adobe for the walls. In 1849 the Army bought it and had planned a nine foot wall around it but apparently it never was built because of cost. I'd guess the Army tore down the walls that had been built and built what we see today..... but that picture by Miller drawn in 1858 has got me puzzled. Anyone out there that can shed a little light on this situation. Thanks in advance. Ben ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 10:08 PM > Add a couple more I thought of > > SW Traders by the Jim Baker Party of the AMM. > > http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html > > As a matter of fact, it is my belief that fur trade history sets a pretty > high standard as internet subjects go. A ton of free quality information. > I have lost bookmarks not to long ago and don't have the one to Angela > Gottfred's Northwest, Canadian voyager type site but it is another one that > you really need to check out. Her husband does a remarkable job teaching > skills via internet. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gene Hickman" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 6:29 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages > > > > Crazy Coyote: > > http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm > > > > Poison River Party: > > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/MainCamp.html > > > > Women of the Fur Trade: > > http://members.tripod.com/womenofthefurtrade/index.htm > > > > Tetonia: > > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > > > > List of Pre-1840's Groups: > > http://www.living-history.net/CR1840GROUPS.HTM#Utah > > > > As Always, > > Your Obedient Servant, > > > > Gene Hickman > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 4:01 PM > > Subject: MtMan-List: Good Webpages > > > > > > > Dear List, > > > Do any of you know some good webpages for the beginner buckskinner or > > > old salt. And also, does anyone have a webpage listing rendezvous dates > > > and places? I need some good sources. > > > What is Crazy's web page? I forgot and it and the Women of the fur > > > trade are two good webpages. Does anyone know them? > > > Any help on these webpages is greatly appreciated. > > > Thanks in advance. > > > bb > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Henry B. Crawford" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibitio Date: 15 Jul 2004 15:22:56 -0600 > > Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:43:04 -0700 > From: Pat Quilter > Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibitio n > > There is a general principle of "fair use" that permits limited copying for > non-commercial purposes, with no intent of personal profit (particularly > when out of print). I'm no lawyer though. > Pat Quilter. > Pat is right. The Fair Use doctrine is correct insofar as it applies to educational uses only. Individuals may copy *PORTIONS* of a publication or manuscript for their own personal educational non-commercial uses. In my profession we have to think about copyright all the time. Museums, universities, libraries, and researchers often copy under the Doctrine of Fair Use. If information is published from the copied document, the document is footnoted and cited as any other source would be. Having a copy of a chapter of MMM for your own personal use and enlightenment is A-OK. HBC (aka Double Mountains) *************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University Box 43191 4th and Indiana Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 henry.b.crawford@ttu.edu 806/742-2442 FAX 742-1136 Website: http://www.museum.ttu.edu *** Living History . . . Because It's There *** ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibition Date: 15 Jul 2004 22:43:06 -0500 Hi Henry, good to see you on the list for the first time in a while. Lanney ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 4:22 PM > > > > Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:43:04 -0700 > > From: Pat Quilter > > Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Description of Saddlery in the Renwick Exhibitio n > > > > There is a general principle of "fair use" that permits limited copying for > > non-commercial purposes, with no intent of personal profit (particularly > > when out of print). I'm no lawyer though. > > Pat Quilter. > > > > Pat is right. The Fair Use doctrine is correct insofar as it applies to > educational uses only. Individuals may copy *PORTIONS* of a publication or > manuscript for their own personal educational non-commercial uses. In my > profession we have to think about copyright all the time. Museums, > universities, libraries, and researchers often copy under the Doctrine of > Fair Use. If information is published from the copied document, the > document is footnoted and cited as any other source would be. > > Having a copy of a chapter of MMM for your own personal use and > enlightenment is A-OK. > > HBC (aka Double Mountains) > > *************************************** > Henry B. Crawford > Curator of History > Museum of Texas Tech University > Box 43191 > 4th and Indiana > Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 > henry.b.crawford@ttu.edu > 806/742-2442 FAX 742-1136 > Website: http://www.museum.ttu.edu > *** Living History . . . Because It's There *** > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: The Black Hills! Date: 17 Jul 2004 16:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Dear List, My son and I just got back from our 1472 mile round-trip Black Hills tour! The Black Hills are certainly wonderful and it's no wonder so many Mountain Men and travelers only got this far. They are big enough mountains for most any Mountain Man! I was pleasantly surprised to see oak trees growing among the pines in our camp! The first oaks I have seen in years. Saw no elk or wild turkeys but plenty of muley's. Found out Sturgis is named for a Captain who died with Custer at the Little Bighorn while in Sturgis and visiting Old Fort Meade. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=gcg8yy&Submit6=Find But one of the neatest things we saw was the Vore Bison Jump just west of Beulah, Wyoming! I've seen some of the greatest bison jumps in the west but this one has got to be one of the most unusual. It is a small sink hole not too big compared to the open prairie it sits on. It actually fits between the frontage road and Highway 90. I was very surprised how small it was. But it has the remains of 20,000 bison in it! Worth seeing if you happen to be in Beulah Wyoming (pop 33) http://www.sundancewyoming.com/vore.htm http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2003/06/11/news/wyoming/240dd7ac129a45ebfe206398d42db0fc.txt I lived in Wyoming for three years and it was great seeing it so green out and with the contrasting red dirt. By time we got to northern Wyoming just south of Billings Mt. it was the same old Wyoming I knew and loved, hot, dry, dusty and windy! Must have been just shy of a 100 degrees when we took a hike up a sage brush covered hillside searching for another geocache. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=gca708&Submit6=Find It was a fun trip and we finished off with a visit to the Custer Battlefield. It was near a hundred degrees there too if not hotter and it was easy to imagine those poor troopers sitting on top of those ridges about dieing of thirst. I’m most impressed by water carriers ravine where 16 men volunteered to go down to the Little Bighorn for water. I’m sure those men drank as much as they could too when they got there. With cover gunfire they retrieved water for the rest of the men. 24 congressional Medals of Honor were awarded for bravery at the Little Bighorn Battlefield. Those who fought there where in one heck of an ordeal. All on the list must see this incredible battlefield. It was my son’s first time there and my third time there but I never get tired of seeing it. We found a cache there as well. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=gc6f9e&Submit6=Find A nice painting inside the Battlefield museum is titled "After the Battle" by J R Ralston In it one Indian can be seen throwing his flintlock tradegun aside as he grabs a new trapdoor carbine! I got a chuckle out of that. Of course we viewed Mt. Rushmore too which my son really liked seeing. Now I have to rent North by Northwest for us to watch the famous "faces" scene. I hope the links work. Good to be home. bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: Deer Hunting Scent Date: 21 Jul 2004 17:29:33 -0400 Ok, here is a little tip for the deer hunters out there. Well... actually, it is sort of a crass commercial for something I learned tonite.... and my wife just happens to sell the stuff... It seems that Deer are attracted to the smell of Anise Essential Oil. Smells like licorice... Mix the oil with a bland carrier oil like jojoba, sweet almond or fractionated coconut oil (about 20 drops of Anise per ounce of carrier oil). Deer love it... it attracts them, and masks your scent. A customer of my wife's whose husband is a deer hunter had her buy some of the oil for him to use. Anyone wanting some of this, contact Vicki (Mouse) at customerservice@meadowsweet.com ... It is priced at $8.99, and comes in a 4 ounce plastic squeeze bottle. This includes shipping in the US of A. Anyone outside the USA will have to pay shipping for Air Mail Letter Post... Regards, Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Tannehil Subject: MtMan-List: Bob Tannehil/St Louis/IBM is out of the office. Date: 21 Jul 2004 16:23:31 -0600 --0__=08BBE44BDFE886418f9e8a93df938690918c08BBE44BDFE88641 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I will be out of the office starting 07/19/2004 and will not return until 07/23/2004. Will have linited access to email, if urgent please call (314) 378-9702 --0__=08BBE44BDFE886418f9e8a93df938690918c08BBE44BDFE88641 Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline

I will be out of the office starting 07/19/2004 and will not return until 07/23/2004.

Will have linited access to email, if urgent please call (314) 378-9702 --0__=08BBE44BDFE886418f9e8a93df938690918c08BBE44BDFE88641-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Deer Hunting Scent Date: 21 Jul 2004 18:41:37 -0600 (MDT) Ad, That Anise oil is also good as a beaver and rat lure or to add to homemade beaver lure. And it probably lures in other critters too. $8.99 for 4 oz postage paid is a good deal too. bb > Ok, here is a little tip for the deer hunters out there. Well... > actually, > it is sort of a crass commercial for something I learned tonite.... and my > wife just happens to sell the stuff... > > It seems that Deer are attracted to the smell of Anise Essential Oil. > Smells like licorice... Mix the oil with a bland carrier oil like jojoba, > sweet almond or fractionated coconut oil (about 20 drops of Anise per > ounce > of carrier oil). Deer love it... it attracts them, and masks your scent. > A > customer of my wife's whose husband is a deer hunter had her buy some of > the > oil for him to use. > > Anyone wanting some of this, contact Vicki (Mouse) at > customerservice@meadowsweet.com ... It is priced at $8.99, and comes in a > 4 > ounce plastic squeeze bottle. This includes shipping in the US of A. > Anyone > outside the USA will have to pay shipping for Air Mail Letter Post... > > Regards, > > Ad Miller > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "trampas4@juno.com" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Good Webpages,Fort Laramie Date: 22 Jul 2004 05:21:08 GMT Hello Ben, Alfred J Miller seen Fort Laramie in 1837, and he did a field sketch of it then. It is now in the Joslyn Art museum in Neb.His are the only known drawings of the original Fort. Millers 1858 painting is of the same original Fort he seen in 1837.Over the years he did many copies of his works in oil to sell. So he also added or changed some things, no copy machines to make prints. In the back ground of the 1858 painting are big clouds over the hills. The fort was built in 1834 by William Sublette as a fur trade post. It was first named fort William. It was built of wood. By 1837 the American Fur Company then owned it. By 1841 it was then replaced with the adobe walled post.1849 the Army then bought it. I am not sure as to when they built it as to the way it is today. The exact location of the original post has not been found. I hope this helps, can anyone add anything I may have missed. Bill G. Baker Party, AMM ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Cars, Trains and Grizzlies! Date: 24 Jul 2004 07:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Dear List, My weekly drive to Missoula went as usual yesterday. It can be a real bad drive in the winter but is a real pretty drive most of the time. I usually reach the top of Roger’s Pass around 5:45 AM and let my engine cool off while I take a quick snooze unless of course there is a blizzard on top but that’s only in the bad snow months (Oct-May). I did take 20 winks and headed down the other side. I was busy looking for a couple of moose that live just on the west side of Roger’s but didn’t see them. I did finally come across a scattered herd of elk. And since they where on both sides of the highway I was concerned about one crossing before me. None did however. A few miles further I saw what I knew in an instance to be a dead bear on the opposite shoulder of the road. I’ve seen a few bears dead off the road before so it did not surprise me. There was no mistaking the black shape and roundness, I knew it was a bear a 1/4 mile away. As I zipped by at a very respectable 64 mph I glanced over at it. It was a Griz!!! I stopped my 80,000 pounds of rolling rubber and steel and backed back up the 1/2 mile just across from the black carcass. Sure enough, as I approached the big dead heap I saw it was indeed a Grizzly bear! I immediately grabbed my cheap disposable camera out of my rig. I sometimes carry my 35 mm or digital camera but of course not today! I also called 911 to report the kill, there are only two small spots on that drive through the Rockies where I can get a cell and luckily I was in one of them . The Griz was dead from being hit sometime early in the dark no doubt as it was already stiff and it was only 6:35AM when I came by it. It was a young male I guessed to weigh 250-300 pounds. It was missing two claws, one (the ring finger) looked liked it was tore off in the wreck or recently as the bear went about doing his hardy bear work. The inside claw on the front right paw however was cleanly severed by what must have been a knife. Hopefully the motorist that hit it took it as a memento to his wrecked rig as there was some vehicle debris about. It’s still illegal but if anyone deserved it, it was he. I stayed by the carcass waiting for the sheriff to show up. Several people stopped to see what I was doing. I told them all “Check it out! That’s a Griz!” One traveler with Washington plates asked me if I minded if he cut off a claw?! I told go ahead if he wanted to get a big fine. He forgot about it being a protected species. Many people stopped to see the bear while I was there though never two vehicles at a time. The Brute was built pretty good! Nothing but muscle, bone, teeth, claws, fur and sinew! He stunk pretty good too! Not dead animal smell but wet dirty dog smell. Similar to a stinking coyote but much stronger. I’ve always heard about how Griz smell, especially their breath and I got to smell it. I thought to myself as I stood over it, ”I hope I never smell this smell again with the tables turned, me on the ground and a Griz on top!”. As I knelt there examining its teeth another motorist stopped and asked what it was. I told him it was a Griz and he asked, “Is it alive?”. I responded, ”Do you think I’d be this close to its head if it was?”. Standing there looking at this Brute and he was just a young Griz, I thought back about our recent talk on the list about Griz guns. I looked at the Griz and thought about taking such a beast with my trade gun..... I’ve now changed my mind on the subject. I now want a fully automatic .12 ga shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot! No more pump for me! bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ejsrb@att.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cars, Trains and Grizzlies! Date: 24 Jul 2004 14:40:51 +0000 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24314_1090680051_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just in case you missed it...here is the article that was in the Great Falls Tribune today. Hope you had fun. Ed "Brother Bear" Stuart Driver hits, kills young grizzly By MICHAEL BABCOCK A young male grizzly bear was hit and killed by a vehicle on Highway 200 near Monture Creek west of Ovando early Friday and one of its claws had been removed as a souvenir. Great Falls truck driver and Tribune outdoor columnist Greg Muich reported the bear carcass about 6:30 a.m. "I was rolling along about 60 mph and I saw the bear. 'Wow! A dead bear. You don't see that too often.' I stopped and backed up and realized it was a grizzly bear. Somebody already had cut one of the claws off -- the thumb on the right side had clearly been cut off. "People were pulling up and wanting to cut the other claws off," Muich said, but he prevented them from doing that. Grizzly bears are federally protected as a threatened species, a less severe status than endangered. Muich said he called 9-1-1 and the dispatcher notified Fish, Wildlife & Parks. Bill Thomas, an information officer with Fish, Wildlife & Parks said the bear was about 225 pounds and estimated to be 2 years old. "We hate to lose any grizzly bears but if you have to lose one, a young male is probably in the most expendable portion of the western Montana grizzly bear population." The scene of the accident was between Ovando and the Clearwater Junction. Highway 200 long has been considered the southern boundary of grizzly bear territory but that has changed. Several years ago grizzlies began showing up well south of the east-west highway. Thomas said FWP is saving the hide and skull for educational purposes. A DNA sample was taken to see if the bear shows up in any of the hair samples as part of a massive study of grizzlies in the Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem which north of Highway 200. "We hope that the driver and the vehicle are OK. We appreciate everybody's help. But whoever cut off the 'right hand thumb' is holding an illegal souvenir," he said. Thomas said one claw on the other front paw was badly damaged -- probably in the accident -- but does not have the appearance "of somebody grubbing with a knife to get it out." "These animals are the property of the state of Montana and cannot be given away or taken," he said. "There will be a story that goes out with this hide, minus one claw, that will help us relate the fact that you cannot stop and help yourself." Thomas said vehicles hit and kill a bear every couple of years. "It may occur a little more often than we are aware of because sometimes people abscond with these animals." According to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, in the Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem, one bear was killed by a car last year; five the year before; one in 2001, and two in 2000. Thomas said the bear was not collared and had no ear tags or lip or ear tattoos, so it was an unknown bear to FWP. Babcock can be reached by e-mail at triboutdoors@sofast.net or by phone at 791-1487 or (800) 438-6600. -------------- Original message from beaverboy@sofast.net: -------------- > Dear List, > > My weekly drive to Missoula went as usual yesterday. It can be > a real bad drive in the winter but is a real pretty drive most > of the time. I usually reach the top of Roger’s Pass around 5:45 AM > and let my engine cool off while I take a quick snooze unless > of course there is a blizzard on top but that’s only in the bad > snow months (Oct-May). I did take 20 winks and headed down the other > side. I was busy looking for a couple of moose that live just > on the west side of Roger’s but didn’t see them. I did > finally come across a scattered herd of elk. And since they > where on both sides of the highway I was concerned about > one crossing before me. None did however. > A few miles further I saw what I knew in an instance to be a dead > bear on the opposite shoulder of the road. I’ve seen a few bears > dead off the road before so it did not surprise me. There was no > mistaking the black shape and roundness, I knew it was a bear a > 1/4 mile away. As I zipped by at a very respectable 64 mph I > glanced over at it. It was a Griz!!! > I stopped my 80,000 pounds of rolling rubber and steel and backed > back up the 1/2 mile just across from the black carcass. Sure > enough, as I approached the big dead heap I saw it was indeed a > Grizzly bear! I immediately grabbed my cheap disposable camera > out of my rig. I sometimes carry my 35 mm or digital camera but > of course not today! > I also called 911 to report the kill, there are only two small > spots on that drive through the Rockies where I can get a cell and luckily > I was in one of them . The Griz was dead from being hit > sometime early in the dark no doubt as it was already stiff and it was > only 6:35AM when I came by it. > It was a young male I guessed to weigh 250-300 pounds. It was > missing two claws, one (the ring finger) looked liked it was tore > off in the wreck or recently as the bear went about doing his hardy bear > work. The inside claw on the front right paw however was > cleanly severed by what must have been a knife. Hopefully the > motorist that hit it took it as a memento to his wrecked rig as > there was some vehicle debris about. It’s still illegal but if > anyone deserved it, it was he. > I stayed by the carcass waiting for the sheriff to show up. > Several people stopped to see what I was doing. I told them all > “Check it out! That’s a Griz!” > One traveler with Washington plates asked me if I minded if he cut > off a claw?! I told go ahead if he wanted to get a big fine. He forgot > about it being a protected species. Many people stopped to > see the bear while I was there though never two vehicles at a time. > The Brute was built pretty good! Nothing but muscle, bone, teeth, > claws, fur and sinew! He stunk pretty good too! Not dead animal > smell but wet dirty dog smell. Similar to a stinking coyote but much > stronger. I’ve always heard about how Griz smell, especially their > breath and I got to smell it. I thought to myself as I stood over > it, ”I hope I never smell this smell again with the tables turned, me on > the ground and a Griz on top!”. > As I knelt there examining its teeth another motorist stopped and > asked what it was. I told him it was a Griz and he asked, “Is it > alive?”. I > responded, ”Do you think I’d be this close to its head if it was?”. > Standing there looking at this Brute and he was just a young Griz, > I thought back about our recent talk on the list about Griz guns. I looked > at the Griz and thought about taking such a beast with my trade gun..... > I’ve now changed my mind on the subject. > I now want a fully automatic .12 ga shotgun loaded with 00 > buckshot! No more pump for me! > bb > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24314_1090680051_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Just in case you missed it...here is the article that was in the Great Falls Tribune today.  Hope you had fun.

 

Ed "Brother Bear" Stuart

Driver hits, kills young grizzly

By MICHAEL BABCOCK
A young male grizzly bear was hit and killed by a vehicle on Highway 200 near Monture Creek west of Ovando early Friday and one of its claws had been removed as a souvenir. Great Falls truck driver and Tribune outdoor columnist Greg Muich reported the bear carcass about 6:30 a.m. "I was rolling along about 60 mph and I saw the bear. 'Wow! A dead bear. You don't see that too often.' I stopped and backed up and realized it was a grizzly bear. Somebody already had cut one of the claws off -- the thumb on the right side had clearly been cut off. "People were pulling up and wanting to cut the other claws off," Muich said, but he prevented them from doing that. Grizzly bears are federally protected as a threatened species, a less severe status than endangered. Muich said he called 9-1-1 and the dispatcher notified Fish, Wildlife & Parks. Bill Thomas, an information officer with Fish, Wildlife & Parks said the bear was about 225 pounds and estimated to be 2 years old. "We hate to lose any grizzly bears but if you have to lose one, a young male is probably in the most expendable portion of the western Montana grizzly bear population." The scene of the accident was between Ovando and the Clearwater Junction. Highway 200 long has been considered the southern boundary of grizzly bear territory but that has changed. Several years ago grizzlies began showing up well south of the east-west highway. Thomas said FWP is saving the hide and skull for educational purposes. A DNA sample was taken to see if the bear shows up in any of the hair samples as part of a massive study of grizzlies in the Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem which north of Highway 200. "We hope that the driver and the vehicle are OK. We appreciate everybody's help. But whoever cut off the 'right hand thumb' is holding an illegal souvenir," he said. Thomas said one claw on the other front paw was badly damaged -- probably in the accident -- but does not have the appearance "of somebody grubbing with a knife to get it out." "These animals are the property of the state of Montana and cannot be given away or taken," he said. "There will be a story that goes out with this hide, minus one claw, that will help us relate the fact that you cannot stop and help yourself." Thomas said vehicles hit and kill a bear every couple of years. "It may occur a little more often than we are aware of because sometimes people abscond with these animals." According to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, in the Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem, one bear was killed by a car last year; five the year before; one in 2001, and two in 2000. Thomas said the bear was not collared and had no ear tags or lip or ear tattoos, so it was an unknown bear to FWP. Babcock can be reached by e-mail at triboutdoors@sofast.net or by phone at 791-1487 or (800) 438-6600.

-------------- Original message from beaverboy@sofast.net: --------------
> Dear List,
>
> My weekly drive to Missoula went as usual yesterday. It can be
> a real bad drive in the winter but is a real pretty drive most
> of the time. I usually reach the top of Roger’s Pass around 5:45 AM
> and let my engine cool off while I take a quick snooze unless
> of course there is a blizzard on top but that’s only in the bad
> snow months (Oct-May). I did take 20 winks and headed down the other
> side. I was busy looking for a couple of moose that live just
> on the west side of Roger’s but didn’t see them. I did
> finally come across a scattered herd of elk. And since they
> where on both sides of the highway I was concerned about
> one crossing before me. None did however.
> A few miles further I saw what I knew in an instance to be a dead
> bear on the opposite shoulder of the road. I’ve seen a few bears
> dead off the road before so it did not surprise me. There was no
> mistaking the black shape and roundness, I knew it was a bear a
> 1/4 mile away. As I zipped by at a very respectable 64 mph I
> glanced over at it. It was a Griz!!!
> I stopped my 80,000 pounds of rolling rubber and steel and backed
> back up the 1/2 mile just across from the black carcass. Sure
> enough, as I approached the big dead heap I saw it was indeed a
> Grizzly bear! I immediately grabbed my cheap disposable camera
> out of my rig. I sometimes carry my 35 mm or digital camera but
> of course not today!
> I also called 911 to report the kill, there are only two small
> spots on that drive through the Rockies where I can get a cell and luckily
> I was in one of them . The Griz was dead from being hit
> sometime early in the dark no doubt as it was already stiff and it was
> only 6:35AM when I came by it.
> It was a young male I guessed to weigh 250-300 pounds. It was
> missing two claws, one (the ring finger) looked liked it was tore
> off in the wreck or recently as the bear went about doing his hardy bear
> work. The inside claw on the front right paw however was
> cleanly severed by what must have been a knife. Hopefully the
> motorist that hit it took it as a memento to his wrecked rig as
> there was some vehicle debris about. It’s still illegal but if
> anyone deserved it, it was he.
> I stayed by the carcass waiting for the sheriff to show up.
> Several people stopped to see what I was doing. I told them all
> “Check it out! That’s a Griz!”
> One traveler with Washington plates asked me if I minded if he cut
> off a claw?! I told go ahead if he wanted to get a big fine. He forgot
> about it being a protected species. Many people stopped to
> see the bear while I was there though never two vehicles at a time.
> The Brute was built pretty good! Nothing but muscle, bone, teeth,
> claws, fur and sinew! He stunk pretty good too! Not dead animal
> smell but wet dirty dog smell. Similar to a stinking coyote but much
> stronger. I’ve always heard about how Griz smell, especially their
> breath and I got to smell it. I thought to myself as I stood over
> it, ”I hope I never smell this smell again with the tables turned, me on
> the ground and a Griz on top!”.
> As I knelt there examining its teeth another motorist stopped and
> asked what it was. I told him it was a Griz and he asked, “Is it
> alive?”. I
> responded, ”Do you think I’d be this close to its head if it was?”.
> Standing there looking at this Brute and he was just a young Griz,
> I thought back about our recent talk on the list about Griz guns. I looked
> at the Griz and thought about taking such a beast with my trade gun.....
> I’ve now changed my mind on the subject.
> I now want a fully automatic .12 ga shotgun loaded with 00
> buckshot! No more pump for me!
> bb
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24314_1090680051_0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cars, Trains and Grizzlies! Date: 24 Jul 2004 21:47:15 -0600 beaverboy wrote: [The grizzly] stunk pretty good too! Not dead animal smell but wet dirty dog smell. Similar to a stinking coyote but much stronger. Crazy Cyot when have you camped with beaverboy? Wynn ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Armstrong Wins Again!!!!! Date: 25 Jul 2004 09:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Lance Armstrong has won his sixth Tour de France!!!! What a great American!!! Way to go Lance!!!!! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RP Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Armstrong Wins Again!!!!! Date: 25 Jul 2004 11:20:26 -0700 Great American indeed! But then he only thinks of women half the time. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "don secondine" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Deer Hunting Scent Date: 25 Jul 2004 22:35:45 +0000 Thanks for the tip Ad, I'll give this a try this fall. Don >From: "Addison Miller" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: "Hist_Text@Lists.Xmission.Com" >Subject: MtMan-List: Deer Hunting Scent >Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:29:33 -0400 > >Ok, here is a little tip for the deer hunters out there. Well... actually, >it is sort of a crass commercial for something I learned tonite.... and my >wife just happens to sell the stuff... > >It seems that Deer are attracted to the smell of Anise Essential Oil. >Smells like licorice... Mix the oil with a bland carrier oil like jojoba, >sweet almond or fractionated coconut oil (about 20 drops of Anise per ounce >of carrier oil). Deer love it... it attracts them, and masks your scent. A >customer of my wife's whose husband is a deer hunter had her buy some of >the >oil for him to use. > >Anyone wanting some of this, contact Vicki (Mouse) at >customerservice@meadowsweet.com ... It is priced at $8.99, and comes in a 4 >ounce plastic squeeze bottle. This includes shipping in the US of A. Anyone >outside the USA will have to pay shipping for Air Mail Letter Post... > >Regards, > >Ad Miller > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "don secondine" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Armstrong Wins Again!!!!! Date: 25 Jul 2004 16:27:31 +0000 Is he a mountain man or a riflesmith? Armstrong..... that sounds vaguely familiar. Don >From: beaverboy@sofast.net >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: Armstrong Wins Again!!!!! >Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 09:49:19 -0600 (MDT) > >Lance Armstrong has won his sixth Tour de France!!!! > What a great American!!! Way to go Lance!!!!! > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Armstrong Wins Again!!!!! Date: 26 Jul 2004 21:08:38 -0600 (MDT) He's a great American hero!!!! One of the greatest! As famous as Colter or Bridger. Check him out, he's in the history books. God Bless him! > Is he a mountain man or a riflesmith? Armstrong..... that sounds vaguely > familiar. > Don > > >>From: beaverboy@sofast.net >>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>To: hist_text@xmission.com >>Subject: MtMan-List: Armstrong Wins Again!!!!! >>Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 09:49:19 -0600 (MDT) >> >>Lance Armstrong has won his sixth Tour de France!!!! >> What a great American!!! Way to go Lance!!!!! >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE > download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cars, Trains and Grizzlies! Date: 26 Jul 2004 21:27:55 -0600 (MDT) List, A woman read the story and said it was her that hit the Griz. She was headed to Missoula Montana and hit it around 12:30AM. She was afraid to stop as she wasn't sure if it was dead! Good thinking, I don't blame her! It did $7000. damage to her Ford Explorer! She did not take the claw either. And get this-I was going to Lewistown this morning which is east of town and I was out on the open country and I saw a young black bear scootin' along! Nothing taller than a fence post for 50 miles in that country. Ain't never seen a bear on that drive, until today. This is the way it used to be, bears on the prairie! Yee ha! Got to have a rubber neck to spot game or them Zero's! Bears must be on a high cycle, I've seen about 10 this year. Bb > beaverboy wrote: > [The grizzly] stunk pretty good too! Not dead animal > smell but wet dirty dog smell. Similar to a stinking coyote but much > stronger. > > > Crazy Cyot when have you camped with beaverboy? > Wynn > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Wolf Pack Killed Date: 26 Jul 2004 21:33:17 -0600 (MDT) Thought this was interesting, most don't read about the wolf problems out west as the liberal papers don't print it or hide it on the back page. bb WOLF PACK KILLED Jul 23, 2004 The largest wolf pack in the state is dead after the U-S Fish and Wildlife officers were directed to kill them. The nine-wolf Cook pack near McCall was preying on domestic sheep grazing on state and federal land in the area. Authorities say the pack killed more than 100 sheep belonging to one rancher. Wildlife services agents shot and killed the wolves after attempts at hazing them away from the sheep failed. Sheep herders tried to prevent the attacks by camping with the sheep and using cracker shells, sirens, lights and other methods, but nothing worked. Two other packs in the area, the Partridge pack and the Hazard pack, are also believed to be killing sheep. Those packs may also be killed. In Idaho, there are an estimated 37 packs which number more than 350 wolves. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cars, Trains and Grizzlies! Date: 27 Jul 2004 00:22:09 EDT --part1_e6.54b24795.2e373271_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/26/04 8:28:38 PM, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: > [The grizzly] stunk pretty good too! Not dead animal > > smell but wet dirty dog smell. Similar to a stinking coyote but much > > stronge > Good story Beaver.... I've been around a few Grizzlies shot in Alaska (interior) and more than a few Brown bear. Don't remember any of them to stink, unless they were on a gut pile/kill. I have noticed that the insides of a fresh trapped fox stinks though... and I mean rank! Had the bright idea of collecting the urine for sets, but after gagging a bit, figured it was easier to buy the stuff. Magpie --part1_e6.54b24795.2e373271_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 7/26/04 8:28:38 PM, beaverboy@sofast.net writes:


[The grizzly] stunk p= retty good too! Not dead animal
> smell but wet dirty dog smell. Similar to a stinking coyote but much > stronge

Good story Beaver.... I've been around a few Grizzlies shot in Alaska (inter= ior) and more than a few Brown bear. Don't remember any of them to stink, un= less they were on a gut pile/kill. I have noticed that the insides of a fres= h trapped fox stinks though... and I mean rank! Had the bright idea of colle= cting the urine for sets, but after gagging a bit, figured it was easier to=20= buy the stuff.

Magpie  --part1_e6.54b24795.2e373271_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Deer Hunting Scent Date: 27 Jul 2004 05:07:23 +0000 Meadow sweet huh...We've probably talked before and never made a connection, I get my trappin oils from them. Yup deer like anise, lots of other critters too that I'm not going to mention so as to keep some sworn secrets to myself. They also like Cinnamon, peppermint, spearmint and nutmeg, we used to bait our motion cameras with anise when doing deer # surveys for FWP. In fact the biggest problem beaver I ever got was in a slick mound set baited only with cinnamon oil. Sometimes ya gotta give em somethin unusual. >From: "Addison Miller" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: "Hist_Text@Lists.Xmission.Com" >Subject: MtMan-List: Deer Hunting Scent >Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:29:33 -0400 > >Ok, here is a little tip for the deer hunters out there. Well... actually, >it is sort of a crass commercial for something I learned tonite.... and my >wife just happens to sell the stuff... > >It seems that Deer are attracted to the smell of Anise Essential Oil. >Smells like licorice... Mix the oil with a bland carrier oil like jojoba, >sweet almond or fractionated coconut oil (about 20 drops of Anise per ounce >of carrier oil). Deer love it... it attracts them, and masks your scent. A >customer of my wife's whose husband is a deer hunter had her buy some of >the >oil for him to use. > >Anyone wanting some of this, contact Vicki (Mouse) at >customerservice@meadowsweet.com ... It is priced at $8.99, and comes in a 4 >ounce plastic squeeze bottle. This includes shipping in the US of A. Anyone >outside the USA will have to pay shipping for Air Mail Letter Post... > >Regards, > >Ad Miller > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Deer Hunting Scent Date: 27 Jul 2004 01:17:10 -0400 Which oils do you use for trapping? If you got'em from MeadowSweet.com, then you got'em from my lil redheaded wife :) I intend to try it out this fall season. My Son is coming up from FL to hunt with me... Gonna be neat :) Regards, Ad ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 1:07 AM > Meadow sweet huh...We've probably talked before and never made a connection, > I get my trappin oils from them. > > Yup deer like anise, lots of other critters too that I'm not going to > mention so as to keep some sworn secrets to myself. > > They also like Cinnamon, peppermint, spearmint and nutmeg, we used to bait > our motion cameras with anise when doing deer # surveys for FWP. > > In fact the biggest problem beaver I ever got was in a slick mound set > baited only with cinnamon oil. Sometimes ya gotta give em somethin unusual. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mike hodges Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wolf Pack Killed Date: 27 Jul 2004 09:04:56 -0700 (PDT) --0-1883116141-1090944296=:58229 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just goes to show what happens when you mix the wild in with the domestic. I sure hate to here about whole packs being killed, but thats our world today. The bear tales are great. Beaver, you sound like a otr drivr. Been that myself, and have seen lots o' the same varmints runnin the roads.The first bunch of moose I saw was over by Jackson Hole a couple of winters back, and of course elk all over New Mexico and Arizona. I saw one black bear cub down by Palestine, Tx. about four years ago. The P&W says their migrating in from the ozarks. Keep the stories coming. beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:Thought this was interesting, most don't read about the wolf problems out west as the liberal papers don't print it or hide it on the back page. bb WOLF PACK KILLED Jul 23, 2004 The largest wolf pack in the state is dead after the U-S Fish and Wildlife officers were directed to kill them. The nine-wolf Cook pack near McCall was preying on domestic sheep grazing on state and federal land in the area. Authorities say the pack killed more than 100 sheep belonging to one rancher. Wildlife services agents shot and killed the wolves after attempts at hazing them away from the sheep failed. Sheep herders tried to prevent the attacks by camping with the sheep and using cracker shells, sirens, lights and other methods, but nothing worked. Two other packs in the area, the Partridge pack and the Hazard pack, are also believed to be killing sheep. Those packs may also be killed. In Idaho, there are an estimated 37 packs which number more than 350 wolves. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! --0-1883116141-1090944296=:58229 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Just goes to show what happens when you mix the wild in with the domestic.  I sure hate to here about whole packs being killed, but thats our world today.  The bear tales are great.  Beaver, you sound like a otr drivr.  Been that myself, and have seen lots o' the same varmints runnin the roads.The first bunch of moose I saw was over by Jackson Hole a couple of winters back, and of course elk all over New Mexico and Arizona.  I saw one black bear cub down by Palestine, Tx. about four years ago.  The P&W says their migrating in from the ozarks.  Keep the stories coming. 

beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:
Thought this was interesting, most don't read about the wolf problems out
west as the liberal papers don't print it or hide it on the back page.
bb


WOLF PACK KILLED

Jul 23, 2004



The largest wolf pack in the state
is dead after the U-S Fish and Wildlife officers were directed to
kill them. The nine-wolf Cook pack near McCall was preying on domestic
sheep grazing on state and federal land in the area.


Authorities say the pack killed more
than 100 sheep belonging to one rancher. Wildlife services agents
shot and killed the wolves after attempts at hazing them away from
the sheep failed.


Sheep herders tried to prevent the
attacks by camping with the sheep and using cracker shells, sirens,
lights and other methods, but nothing worked.


Two other packs in the area, the
Partridge pack and the Hazard pack, are also believed to be killing
sheep. Those packs may also be killed.


In Idaho, there are an estimated
37 packs which number more than 350 wolves.








----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! --0-1883116141-1090944296=:58229-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: MtMan-List: RE: Clerk's caps, Date: 27 Jul 2004 19:29:43 -0700 Hello Brothers, There was a discussion about a month, or so, ago about clerk's caps (known by other names that escape me at present). They are the short billed 'workers' caps. A fellow on this list had patterns. I had saved this info., but with my computer problems I lost the info.. I was interested in general, but now an opportunity has come up for me to portray a craftsmen at a local CA. Mission (ie, a Russian windmill builder). I figure a cap like this would make my outfit look all the better. If the gentleman who had the patterns would be willing to sell, lend, give me a copy of the pattern I would be most interested. I have a big fat head , so would be interested in the large pattern. If you see this, please respond. Many thanks. Yfab, Randy 'hardtack' Bublitz Life is short, paddle hard...... Randal Bublitz rjbublitz@earthlink.net ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: Clerk's caps, Date: 27 Jul 2004 21:32:36 -0600 (MDT) That would be Larry and I'm sure he will see your message shortly and respond. Those round top cloth worker hats are pretty good too. Our company just recently started selling forged ornamental steel components from a firm out of Italy. They sent a tape along too about using their product. The Italian blacksmith's in the tape (modern workers) were all wearing those same round top cloth hats. Some things never change. I thought that was pretty neat. bb > Hello Brothers, There was a discussion about a month, or so, ago about > clerk's caps (known by other names that escape me at present). They are > the short billed 'workers' caps. A fellow on this list had patterns. I > had saved this info., but with my computer problems I lost the info.. I > was interested in general, but now an opportunity has come up for me to > portray a craftsmen at a local CA. Mission (ie, a Russian windmill > builder). I figure a cap like this would make my outfit look all the > better. If the gentleman who had the patterns would be willing to sell, > lend, give me a copy of the pattern I would be most interested. I have a > big fat head , so would be interested in the large pattern. If you see > this, please respond. Many thanks. Yfab, Randy 'hardtack' Bublitz > > > Life is short, paddle hard...... > Randal Bublitz > rjbublitz@earthlink.net > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: Clerk's caps, Date: 27 Jul 2004 21:02:47 -0700 Thanks bb, By the way, I enjoy your posts . Yfab, Randy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry and sheri" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: RE: Clerk's caps, Date: 27 Jul 2004 22:21:58 -0600 okay, I misplaced, miss filed or just plain lost the addresses. If you want the patterns please send me your snail mail address again. I will make up copies of the patterns this time at work so they can be sent out in a week or so. All I ask is reimbursement for material and postage. larry ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JIM BRYAN" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: sardines Date: 27 Jul 2004 23:32:25 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C47431.F967DE90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you'll take a little beeswax........ Absalom ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John Bullock=20 To: yellowroseforge@vzinet.com ; = lanneyratcliff@charter.net ; = ammlist@xmission.com ; = hist_text@xmission.com=20 Cc: lcf143@ktc.com ; = wsendelback@earthlink.net ; = jerrymcmahon@webtv.net ; = maplessteve@hotmail.com ; = iijoe1762@aol.com ; = jbryan1939@msn.com ; = RNDVOO@aol.com ; = chick.fortenberry@sbcglobal.net = ; woodenhawk@aol.com ; = jamescraker@joimail.com ; = sunkasapa1@netzero.com ; = Markdews@aol.com ; = Ssturtle1199@aol.com ; = MarshnmizeC@aol.com ; = syork@csbtx.com ; = austint@sill.army.mil ; = tbishnow@msn.com ; = Charcloth@hotmail.com ; = sr681@msn.com ; = rodneystorie@hotmail.com ; = DKE1781@aol.com ; = vicvarn@hotmail.com ; = dale.camp@sbcglobal.net ; = BVanno1003@NetZero.Net=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 9:54 PM Subject: Re: sardines I tried smoking oysters once but could not keep them lit it was nasty! >From: "larry pendleton" = > >To: "Lanney Ratcliff" = ,"AMM,"AMM= >"=20 = >,"History,"History> = List" > >CC: "Larry Freeman" = ,"Bill,"Bill> Sendleback"=20 = >,"Jerry,"Je= rry> McMahon" = ,"Steve,"Steve>=20 >Maples" = ,"Joe,"Joe> = Cheatham" ,"Jim,"Jim>=20 >Bryan" ,"Bill,"Bill> = Rasco" ,"Chick,"Chick>=20 >Fortenbury" = ,"Don,"Don> Kitlinger"=20 >,"James,"James> = Craker" = ,"John,"John>=20 >Bullock" = ,"Kraig,"Kra= ig> Falwell"=20 >,"Mark,"Mark> = Dews" ,"Robbie,"Robbie> = Barkley"=20 >,"Sam,"Sam> Mize" = ,"Scotty,"Scotty> York" = >,"Tim,"Tim> Austin" = ,"Tracy,"Tracy> = Bishnow"=20 >,"Dave,"Dave> McGehee" = ,"Don,"Don> Riley"=20 >,"Rodney,"Rodney> Storie" = ,"Lanney,"Lann= ey>=20 >Ratcliff" = ,"Dick,"Di= ck> Erwin" ,"Vic,"Vic>=20 >Varnadoe" = ,"Dale,"Dale> Camp" = ,"Bill,"Bill>=20 >Vannoy" > >Subject: Re: sardines >Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:46:09 -0500 > >Lanney, > I can't quote the documentation ( old age ), but I believe milk,=20 >sardines, >and smoked oysters were some of the first foods to be preserved in = tin=20 >cans. >By the way, smoked oysters are some kind of nasty ! > >LP > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's = FREE!=20 = http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C47431.F967DE90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you'll take a little beeswax........
 
Absalom
----- Original Message -----
From: John Bullock
To: yellowroseforge@vzinet.com= ; lanneyratcliff@charter.net= ; ammlist@xmission.com ; hist_text@xmission.com =
Cc: lcf143@ktc.com ; wsendelback@earthlink.net = ; jerrymcmahon@webtv.net ; maplessteve@hotmail.com ; = iijoe1762@aol.com ; jbryan1939@msn.com ; RNDVOO@aol.com ;=20 chick.fortenberry@sbcglob= al.net=20 ; woodenhawk@aol.com ; jamescraker@joimail.com ; = sunkasapa1@netzero.com ; Markdews@aol.com ; Ssturtle1199@aol.com ; MarshnmizeC@aol.com ; syork@csbtx.com=20 ; austint@sill.army.mil ; tbishnow@msn.com ; Charcloth@hotmail.com ; sr681@msn.com ; rodneystorie@hotmail.com = ; DKE1781@aol.com=20 ; vicvarn@hotmail.com ; dale.camp@sbcglobal.net ; = BVanno1003@NetZero.Net =
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 = 9:54=20 PM
Subject: Re: sardines

I tried smoking oysters once but could not keep them = lit it was=20 nasty!


>From: "larry pendleton" <yellowroseforge@vzinet.com= >
>To:=20 "Lanney Ratcliff" <,"AMM'=20 = href=3D'mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net>,"AMM'>lanneyratcliff@charter.n= et>,"AMM"=20
><,"History'=20 = href=3D'mailto:ammlist@xmission.com>,"History'>ammlist@xmission.com>,"= History=20 List" <hist_text@xmission.com>
= >CC:=20 "Larry Freeman" <,"Bill'=20 href=3D'mailto:lcf143@ktc.com>,"Bill'>lcf143@ktc.com>,"Bill = Sendleback"=20
><,"Jerry'=20 = href=3D'mailto:wsendelback@earthlink.net>,"Jerry'>wsendelback@earthlink.n= et>,"Jerry=20 McMahon" <,"Steve'=20 = href=3D'mailto:jerrymcmahon@webtv.net>,"Steve'>jerrymcmahon@webtv.net>= ,"Steve=20
>Maples" <,"Joe'=20 = href=3D'mailto:maplessteve@hotmail.com>,"Joe'>maplessteve@hotmail.com>= ,"Joe=20 Cheatham" <,"Jim'=20 href=3D'mailto:iijoe1762@aol.com>,"Jim'>iijoe1762@aol.com>,"Jim =
>Bryan" <,"Bill'=20 = href=3D'mailto:jbryan1939@msn.com>,"Bill'>jbryan1939@msn.com>,"Bill=20 Rasco" <,"Chick'=20 href=3D'mailto:RNDVOO@aol.com>,"Chick'>RNDVOO@aol.com>,"Chick=20
>Fortenbury" <,"Don'=20 = href=3D'mailto:chick.fortenberry@sbcglobal.net>,"Don'>chick.fortenberry@s= bcglobal.net>,"Don=20 Kitlinger"
><,"James'=20 = href=3D'mailto:woodenhawk@aol.com>,"James'>woodenhawk@aol.com>,"James<= /A>=20 Craker" <,"John'=20 = href=3D'mailto:jamescraker@joimail.com>,"John'>jamescraker@joimail.com>= ;,"John=20
>Bullock" <,"Kraig'=20 = href=3D'mailto:brushfire1847@hotmail.com>,"Kraig'>brushfire1847@hotmail.c= om>,"Kraig=20 Falwell"
><,"Mark' = = href=3D'mailto:sunkasapa1@netzero.com>,"Mark'>sunkasapa1@netzero.com>,= "Mark=20 Dews" <,"Robbie'=20 = href=3D'mailto:Markdews@aol.com>,"Robbie'>Markdews@aol.com>,"Robbie=20 Barkley"
><,"Sam'=20 = href=3D'mailto:Ssturtle1199@aol.com>,"Sam'>Ssturtle1199@aol.com>,"Sam<= /A>=20 Mize" <,"Scotty'=20 = href=3D'mailto:MarshnmizeC@aol.com>,"Scotty'>MarshnmizeC@aol.com>,"Sco= tty=20 York"
><,"Tim'=20 href=3D'mailto:syork@csbtx.com>,"Tim'>syork@csbtx.com>,"Tim = Austin"=20 <,"Tracy'=20 = href=3D'mailto:austint@sill.army.mil>,"Tracy'>austint@sill.army.mil>,"= Tracy=20 Bishnow"
><,"Dave'=20 href=3D'mailto:tbishnow@msn.com>,"Dave'>tbishnow@msn.com>,"Dave = McGehee"=20 <,"Don'=20 = href=3D'mailto:Charcloth@hotmail.com>,"Don'>Charcloth@hotmail.com>,"Do= n=20 Riley"
><,"Rodney'=20 href=3D'mailto:sr681@msn.com>,"Rodney'>sr681@msn.com>,"Rodney = Storie"=20 <,"Lanney'=20 = href=3D'mailto:rodneystorie@hotmail.com>,"Lanney'>rodneystorie@hotmail.co= m>,"Lanney=20
>Ratcliff" <,"Dick'=20 = href=3D'mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net>,"Dick'>lanneyratcliff@charter.= net>,"Dick=20 Erwin" <,"Vic'=20 href=3D'mailto:DKE1781@aol.com>,"Vic'>DKE1781@aol.com>,"Vic=20
>Varnadoe" <,"Dale'=20 = href=3D'mailto:vicvarn@hotmail.com>,"Dale'>vicvarn@hotmail.com>,"Dale<= /A>=20 Camp" <,"Bill'=20 = href=3D'mailto:dale.camp@sbcglobal.net>,"Bill'>dale.camp@sbcglobal.net>= ;,"Bill=20
>Vannoy" <BVanno1003@NetZero.Net>
= >Subject:=20 Re: sardines
>Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:46:09=20 -0500
>
>Lanney,
>   I can't quote the=20 documentation ( old age ), but I believe milk, =
>sardines,
>and=20 smoked oysters were some of the first foods to be preserved in tin=20
>cans.
>By the way, smoked oysters are some kind of nasty = = !
>
>LP
>

______________________________________= ___________________________
Express=20 yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! =
= http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C47431.F967DE90-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: Clerk's caps, Date: 28 Jul 2004 09:10:11 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C47482.AF626C10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Randy, Larry Renney has a pattern that I also have and I think he responded to = you. In the interim there are instructions on Angela Gottfred's = Northwest Journal: http://www.northwestjournal.ca/XII3.htm Incidentally this is one of the best sites on Voyageur's and it has one = of the most active and period correct discussion groups going. You can = get info on the discussion group at the Northwest Journal homepage: = http://www.northwestjournal.ca/ It is also a yahoo group. As Always,=20 Your Obedient Servant,=20 =20 Gene "Bead Shooter" Hickman ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C47482.AF626C10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Randy,
 
Larry Renney has a pattern that I also = have and I=20 think he responded to you. In the interim there are instructions = on Angela=20 Gottfred's Northwest Journal: http://www.northwestjour= nal.ca/XII3.htm
 
Incidentally this is one of the best = sites on=20 Voyageur's and it has one of the most active and period correct = discussion=20 groups going. You can get info on the discussion group at the = Northwest=20 Journal homepage: http://www.northwestjournal.ca/<= /A> It is also a yahoo group.
 
As Always,
Your Obedient Servant,
 
Gene "Bead = Shooter"=20 Hickman
------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C47482.AF626C10-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: Clerk's caps, Date: 28 Jul 2004 18:40:00 EDT --part1_146.2f52b30a.2e398540_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here are some directions for a cap. If someone has already posted the directions, sorry for the repeat frank sablan midland,texas Making A Clerk's Cap --part1_146.2f52b30a.2e398540_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable here are some directions for a cap= .  If someone has already posted the directions, sorry for the repeat
frank sablan
midland,texas

Making A Clerk's Cap= --part1_146.2f52b30a.2e398540_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: Clerk's caps, Date: 28 Jul 2004 17:11:05 -0700
Hi Frank and Gene,   Thanks for the reply.   Larry responded to me.  Thanks to you two for your response.  If I can get the pattern ready to go, I'll go that route.  Otherwise I'll try to figure it out.  Larry says he'll send me a pattern though.  The local mission found out recently that the resident padre arranged for 3 russians to visit the Lompoc Mission from up North.  The reason was to try to learn from them the science of windmill building.  The Mission has a 'Candle Light ' tour every year.  Folks come and explore the mission at night, and all sorts of scenerios are played out for the tour.  George Thompson, Pat Quilter and I have been asked to portray the russian craftsmen.  I'm trying to put together a believable outfit for this event.  We'll have lots of fun, as we usually do when participating in Mission events.  Check out some of the fun at this website; look under 'activities'.  Thanks again, Randy
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 7/28/2004 2:40:09 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: RE: Clerk's caps,

here are some directions for a cap.  If someone has already posted the directions, sorry for the repeat

frank sablan
midland,texas

Making A Clerk's Cap
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: sardines Date: 28 Jul 2004 20:12:35 -0500 If you'll take a little beeswax........ Absalom >> Spoken like a true WAX TENDER. Is Wax Tender one word or two ? LP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Mitchell" Subject: MtMan-List: footwear Date: 30 Jul 2004 12:22:40 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C4762F.E886B7E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello to camp I'm new to this sport and new to this page my name is Keith Mitchell I = =3D =3D3D run my own tannery and do all types of skins even period correct stuff I = =3D =3D3D also am a butcher by trade I am working on my persona and after a few = =3D =3D3D treks I want to change my footwear the center and side seams just are to = =3D =3D3D soft and after hiking in the rocky mts of Utah my feet are a bit sore I = =3D =3D3D was reading mark bakers book and like the shoe pack idea but was =3D3D wondering if it was period for the rocky mtn fur trade my persona is = =3D3D that of a company trapper so after reading all I could from the 8 books = =3D =3D3D of buckskining and several other books I have yet to come up with what I = =3D =3D3D feel will be right so I am taking advice from mark bakers book and =3D3D asking the trial worn experts for help so my pilgrims journey will be a = =3D =3D3D bit faster=3D3D20 thank you=3D3D20 Keith=3D3D20 p.s. I also run traps all winter and if there is anything I can offer in = =3D =3D3D the way of help=3D3D20 I will do my best ------=3D3D_NextPart_000_0061_01C4748D.744E0F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [message truncated] ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C4762F.E886B7E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello to camp

I'm new to = this sport and=20 new to this page my name is Keith Mitchell I =3D
=3D3D
run my own = tannery and=20 do all types of skins even period correct stuff I =3D
=3D3D
also = am a butcher=20 by trade I am working on my persona and after a few = =3D
=3D3D
treks I want to=20 change my footwear the center and side seams just are to = =3D
=3D3D
soft and=20 after hiking in the rocky mts of Utah my feet are a bit sore I = =3D
=3D3D
was=20 reading mark bakers book and like the shoe pack idea but was = =3D3D
wondering if=20 it was period for the rocky mtn fur trade my persona is =3D3D
that of = a company=20 trapper so after reading all I could from the 8 books =3D
=3D3D
of = buckskining=20 and several other books I have yet to come up with what I = =3D
=3D3D
feel will=20 be right so I am taking advice from mark bakers book and =3D3D
asking = the trial=20 worn experts for help so my pilgrims journey will be a = =3D
=3D3D
bit=20 faster=3D3D20
thank you=3D3D20
Keith=3D3D20
p.s. I also run = traps all winter=20 and if there is anything I can offer in =3D
=3D3D
the way of = help=3D3D20
I=20 will do my=20 best

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charset=3D3D"iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20 quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C4762F.E886B7E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mike hodges Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear Date: 30 Jul 2004 13:31:06 -0700 (PDT) --0-843587676-1091219466=:86032 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey, Keith. Come in and welcome. If you've got a list of prices for elkskin, I'd be interested. Did you check out swrr list of rules for pilgrims. It's perty informative. I just started myself. Fun ain't it. Cannonball (Mike) Keith Mitchell wrote: Hello to camp I'm new to this sport and new to this page my name is Keith Mitchell I = =3D run my own tannery and do all types of skins even period correct stuff I = =3D also am a butcher by trade I am working on my persona and after a few = =3D treks I want to change my footwear the center and side seams just are to = =3D soft and after hiking in the rocky mts of Utah my feet are a bit sore I = =3D was reading mark bakers book and like the shoe pack idea but was =3D wondering if it was period for the rocky mtn fur trade my persona is =3D that of a company trapper so after reading all I could from the 8 books = =3D of buckskining and several other books I have yet to come up with what I = =3D feel will be right so I am taking advice from mark bakers book and =3D asking the trial worn experts for help so my pilgrims journey will be a = =3D bit faster=3D20 thank you=3D20 Keith=3D20 p.s. I also run traps all winter and if there is anything I can offer in = =3D the way of help=3D20 I will do my best ------=3D_NextPart_000_0061_01C4748D.744E0F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [message truncated] Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! --0-843587676-1091219466=:86032 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hey, Keith.  Come in and welcome.  If you've got a list of prices for elkskin, I'd be interested.  Did you check out swrr list of rules for pilgrims.  It's perty informative. I just started myself.  Fun ain't it.  Cannonball (Mike)

Keith Mitchell <mitchellsfurco@sisna.com> wrote:

Hello to camp

I'm new to this sport and new to this page my name is Keith Mitchell I =
=3D
run my own tannery and do all types of skins even period correct stuff I =
=3D
also am a butcher by trade I am working on my persona and after a few =
=3D
treks I want to change my footwear the center and side seams just are to =
=3D
soft and after hiking in the rocky mts of Utah my feet are a bit sore I =
=3D
was reading mark bakers book and like the shoe pack idea but was =3D
wondering if it was period for the rocky mtn fur trade my persona is =3D
that of a company trapper so after reading all I could from the 8 books =
=3D
of buckskining and several other books I have yet to come up with what I =
=3D
feel will be right so I am taking advice from mark bakers book and =3D
asking the trial worn experts for help so my pilgrims journey will be a =
=3D
bit faster=3D20
thank you=3D20
Keith=3D20
p.s. I also run traps all winter and if there is anything I can offer in =
=3D
the way of help=3D20
I will do my best

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charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">

[message truncated]

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! --0-843587676-1091219466=:86032-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RP Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear Date: 30 Jul 2004 14:47:12 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C47644.1922A0D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Keith, Welcome to the list. I'm sure others will have some good info/offerings = for you but I'd like to put my spin on this subject of proper moc's.=20 You ask about "shoe packs" and whether they are proper for the Rocky Mt. = Fur Trade era? The short answer is "probably not" since as I recall they = are patterned off one pair found back east in a dig site. But as you = have found, the other options aren't suitable for foot travel in the = "Rockies". Keeping in mind that virtually all original participants in = the RMFT era were mounted it's understandable how they got by so handily = in the various soft sole moccasin styles. And there were many. Eastern = Center Seam with and without a vamp. Side seam, tall and low cut. And = many others. There are rawhide soled moc patterns that might have seen = use in the American West but they are a desert moc where moisture isn't = much of a concern. The point is that I believe folks made what they were = familiar with. And that covers a lot of styles. Your not going to see many people in center seam shoe packs like Mark = favors but I personally do not see anything wrong with using them. That = is "how you were taught" to make them by those you grew up with from = wherever back east you came from and everyone except the native Indians = came from back east. It would be expected that in time you would likely = adopt the contemporary favorites or that might be the only style you = could get the local Indian ladies to turn out for you or............... = but at the moment your wearing what you know how to make and that is = shoe packs. Enough justification for ya? YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C47644.1922A0D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Keith,
 
Welcome to the list. = I'm sure=20 others will have some good info/offerings for you but I'd like to put my = spin on=20 this subject of proper moc's.
 
You ask about "shoe = packs" and=20 whether they are proper for the Rocky Mt. Fur Trade era? The short = answer is=20 "probably not" since as I recall they are patterned off one pair found = back east=20 in a dig site. But as you have found, the other options aren't suitable = for foot=20 travel in the "Rockies".  Keeping in mind that virtually all = original=20 participants in the RMFT era were mounted it's understandable how they = got by so=20 handily in the various soft sole moccasin styles. And there were many. = Eastern=20 Center Seam with and without a vamp. Side seam, tall and low cut. And = many=20 others. There are rawhide soled moc patterns that might have seen use in = the=20 American West but they are a desert moc where moisture isn't much of a = concern.=20 The point is that I believe folks made what they were familiar with. And = that=20 covers a lot of styles.
 
Your not going to see = many people=20 in center seam shoe packs like Mark favors but I personally do not see = anything=20 wrong with using them. That is "how you were taught" to make them by = those you=20 grew up with from wherever back east you came from and everyone except = the=20 native Indians came from back east. It would be expected that in time = you would=20 likely adopt the contemporary favorites or that might be the only style = you=20 could get the local Indian ladies to turn out for you or............... = but at=20 the moment your wearing what you know how to make and that is shoe=20 packs.
 
Enough justification = for ya?=20 <G>
 
YMOS
Capt. = Lahti'
 
------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C47644.1922A0D0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear Date: 30 Jul 2004 22:08:56 EDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith, Welcome to the fire. You might want to check the Arrow or Dyer websites for some styles as well. I've put the links down below. IMO, early Americans feet were a probably a lot tougher than most of us Reenactors of today. I've found that having double (or triple) soles and a style with more ankle support and protection is a big plus in rocky territory. Dyer makes what I'm talking about in their 'Lace Boot' and 'Rendezvous" styles. Arrow calls them their 'Trail Boot' or 'Lace Boot' or even "Lined Lace Boot' for Winter camp. These will give you some ideas. While some of them may not be documented PC styles, having sore or bruised feet or ankles in the mountains can take a lot of the fun out of it. Barney _ARROW MOCCASIN COMPANY_ (http://www.arrowmoc.com/mocasins.html) _Carl Dyer's Original Moccasins Home Page_ (http://www.carldyers.com/) Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Keith, Welcome to the fire. You might want to check the Ar= row=20 or Dyer websites for some styles as well.  I've put the links down=20 below.
 
IMO, early Americans feet were a probably a lot tougher th= an=20 most of us Reenactors of today. I've found that having double (or triple) so= les=20 and a style with more ankle support and protection is a big=20 plus in rocky territory.
 
Dyer makes what I'm talking about in their 'Lace Boot' and= =20 'Rendezvous" styles. Arrow calls them their 'Trail Boot' or 'Lace=20 Boot' or even "Lined Lace Boot' for Winter camp. These will= =20 give you some ideas.
 
While some of them may not be documented PC=20 styles, having sore or bruised feet or ankles in the=20 mountains can take a lot of the fun out of it.
 
Barney
 
 
 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear Date: 30 Jul 2004 20:41:52 -0600 (MDT) "Keeping in mind that virtually all original participants in the RMFT era > were mounted it's understandable how they got by so handily in the various soft sole moccasin styles". Are the hundreds if not thousands of men that came up the Missouri and it's tributaries on boats of several styles not a part of the RMFT? Am I missing something or did I misread that? Are the trappers of the Upper Missouri not considered a part of the RMFT? Does the RMFT stand for "Rocky Mountain Fur Trade" or am I mistaken or just ignorant? Are Upper Missouri and other river trappers considered a different era than the Rocky Mountain guys? What do you mean by the RMFT, please define. Were'nt most of the "original" men of the RMFT era almost exclusively boat men and later having to wander off of the main rivers on horseback in search of untrapped resourses. And aren't half of the rivers they trapped just as rocky as the Rockies? Capt. please set me straight. bb > Keith, > > Welcome to the list. I'm sure others will have some good info/offerings > for you but I'd like to put my spin on this subject of proper moc's. > > You ask about "shoe packs" and whether they are proper for the Rocky Mt. > Fur Trade era? The short answer is "probably not" since as I recall they > are patterned off one pair found back east in a dig site. But as you have > found, the other options aren't suitable for foot travel in the "Rockies". > Keeping in mind that virtually all original participants in the RMFT era > were mounted it's understandable how they got by so handily in the various > soft sole moccasin styles. And there were many. Eastern Center Seam with > and without a vamp. Side seam, tall and low cut. And many others. There > are rawhide soled moc patterns that might have seen use in the American > West but they are a desert moc where moisture isn't much of a concern. The > point is that I believe folks made what they were familiar with. And that > covers a lot of styles. > > Your not going to see many people in center seam shoe packs like Mark > favors but I personally do not see anything wrong with using them. That is > "how you were taught" to make them by those you grew up with from wherever > back east you came from and everyone except the native Indians came from > back east. It would be expected that in time you would likely adopt the > contemporary favorites or that might be the only style you could get the > local Indian ladies to turn out for you or............... but at the > moment your wearing what you know how to make and that is shoe packs. > > Enough justification for ya? > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "tom" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: footwear Date: 30 Jul 2004 20:43:19 -0600 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Back when I started playing mountain man. One of the most troubling things to me, was the thought of walking around the wild country in soft soled un supportive mocs. the sharp rocks, prickly pear and other instant reminders of one's mortality. Seemed insurmountable with such seemingly flimsy footwear. I quickly found out, wearing soft soled mocs aint that bad..................... Not that a sharp rock or a prickly pear spine doesn't find it's unwelcome way in to my city feet once in a while. my feet have toughened in the years since i started wearing them. you quickly learn where and what you do not put your feet in or on. so much so, that it is done instinctively and without thinking. as for winter time, i wear the same kind of mocs only they are lined with fur and wool both. as a side note, i think if you have health issues like diabetes. you should guard you feet with your life and authenticity certainly should take a back seat to your health. Tom, AMM#1834 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: 7/30/2004 12:47:21 PM Hello to camp I'm new to this sport and new to this page my name is Keith Mitchell I = =3D run my own tannery and do all types of skins even period correct stuff I = =3D also am a butcher by trade I am working on my persona and after a few = =3D treks I want to change my footwear the center and side seams just are to = =3D soft and after hiking in the rocky mts of Utah my feet are a bit sore I = =3D was reading mark bakers book and like the shoe pack idea but was =3D wondering if it was period for the rocky mtn fur trade my persona is =3D that of a company trapper so after reading all I could from the 8 books = =3D of buckskining and several other books I have yet to come up with what I = =3D feel will be right so I am taking advice from mark bakers book and =3D asking the trial worn experts for help so my pilgrims journey will be a = =3D bit faster=3D20 thank you=3D20 Keith=3D20 p.s. I also run traps all winter and if there is anything I can offer in = =3D the way of help=3D20 I will do my best ------=3D_NextPart_000_0061_01C4748D.744E0F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [message truncated] ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Back when I started playing mountain man.  One of the most troubling things to me,  was the thought of walking around the wild country in soft soled un supportive mocs.  the sharp rocks, prickly pear and other instant reminders of one's mortality.  Seemed insurmountable with such seemingly flimsy footwear.  I quickly found out, wearing soft soled mocs aint that bad.....................  Not that a sharp rock or a prickly pear spine doesn't find it's unwelcome way in to my city feet once in a while.   my feet have toughened in the years since i started wearing them.  you quickly learn where and what you do not put your feet in or on.  so much so, that it is done instinctively and  without thinking. 
as for winter time, i wear the same kind of mocs only they are lined with fur and wool both.
 
as a side note, i think if you have health issues like diabetes.   you should guard you feet with your life and authenticity certainly should take a back seat to your health.  
Tom, AMM#1834 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 7/30/2004 12:47:21 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: footwear


Hello to camp

I'm new to this sport and new to this page my name is Keith Mitchell I =
=3D
run my own tannery and do all types of skins even period correct stuff I =
=3D
also am a butcher by trade I am working on my persona and after a few =
=3D
treks I want to change my footwear the center and side seams just are to =
=3D
soft and after hiking in the rocky mts of Utah my feet are a bit sore I =
=3D
was reading mark bakers book and like the shoe pack idea but was =3D
wondering if it was period for the rocky mtn fur trade my persona is =3D
that of a company trapper so after reading all I could from the 8 books =
=3D
of buckskining and several other books I have yet to come up with what I =
=3D
feel will be right so I am taking advice from mark bakers book and =3D
asking the trial worn experts for help so my pilgrims journey will be a =
=3D
bit faster=3D20
thank you=3D20
Keith=3D20
p.s. I also run traps all winter and if there is anything I can offer in =
=3D
the way of help=3D20
I will do my best

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------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: footwear Date: 30 Jul 2004 20:25:14 -0700
Hi Keith,              I've always appreciated a good supportive, hard sole moccasin.  I broke my heel bone almost a year and a half ago, and I'm still gimpy from it.  Needless to say, I appreciate good footware even more now.  You might want to check out Fugawee boots and shoes.  They are periodic correct, and are shoes and boots.  The cost isn't much, if any , more than good mocs.  Stitchin' Scotsman makes some good hard sole side seam mocs, if you want to stick to mocs.   Just a suggestion.  Randy
 
 
 
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RP Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear Date: 30 Jul 2004 21:53:20 -0700 Geez Beaverboy calm down. Your gonna hyperventilate. I stand by the basic premise of my original statement. I certainly did not mean to imply that no one traveled by boat but it seems that with the Plains Indians being a horse culture and most if not all the brigades in the hey-day of the RMFT (Rocky Mt. Fur Trade) being at one time or the other mostly mounted, most folks of the times being much more inured to "having their feet broke in for walking besides, and all the info in the way of journals and drawings and sketches showing various types of soft sole moccasins that it seems most wore soft sole mocs of one design or the other. I thought I also provided rational enough for someone in our times who just could not get by with such foot wear to "adopt" at the least foot wear of a recent earlier time contemporary to the RMFT era that was less soft soled. If you want to carry it a bit further, there were more than a few boots and shoes sent west according to shipping ledgers. As Tom pointed out there are certainly medical reasons for wearing something more protective than soft soles but I have a pair of center seam/vamped high top mocs of brain tan that I made a number of years back. Along with the socks and blanket liners I've added, walking on rough ground isn't all that bad as infrequently as I do. Plain one layer brain tanned deer mocs of any style are gonna be hard to get used to if you don't go out almost weekly. I had a buddy many years ago that just could not deal with not having good foot support so he made a pair of side seams that his "Georgia Boots" would fit in. Didn't hurt my feelings a bit knowing it. At least he got out on the ground. And Randy has a good idea steering anyone with foot problems to outfits like Fugawee for period boots and shoes. I wear them when the going gets rough. (I don't have a horse, I'm looking for it ) YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear Date: 31 Jul 2004 05:41:28 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C476C1.065ADBC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can vouch for the Fugawee boots. I have a pair of the straight last = laceups and find that they are sturdy and comfortable. I treated them = to within an inch of their life with Montana Pitch Blend so they shed = water like the hood on my '57 Chevy. I am diabetic with some minor = numbness in both feet and I feel very confident wearing them around = rocks & Texas cactus (and the stray copperhead). The boots are all = leather and sewn with linen thread and come in large sizes. The company = is run directly from the owner's home and contacting them with questions = is no problem. I wish I had bought them years ago. It's very early on Saturday and I find myself writing in short, choppy = sentences that my old journalism teacher, Mrs. Betty Donovan Knox, would = thoroughly disapprove of so I'm going to have a cup of strong black = coffee and go to work. I have to inspect the installation of 550 tons = of asphalt paving for FedEx in the warm Texas muggy sunshine today. I'm = glad that I'm the inspector instead of somebody who actually has to = work. TTFN Lanney ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Randal Bublitz=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 10:25 PM Subject: RE: MtMan-List: footwear Hi Keith, I've always appreciated a good supportive, hard = sole moccasin. I broke my heel bone almost a year and a half ago, and = I'm still gimpy from it. Needless to say, I appreciate good footware = even more now. You might want to check out Fugawee boots and shoes. = They are periodic correct, and are shoes and boots. The cost isn't = much, if any , more than good mocs. Stitchin' Scotsman makes some good = hard sole side seam mocs, if you want to stick to mocs. Just a = suggestion. Randy http://www.fugawee.com/ http://www.stitchinscotsman.com/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C476C1.065ADBC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I can vouch for the Fugawee = boots.  I have a pair of the straight last laceups and find that = they are=20 sturdy and comfortable.  I treated them to within an inch of their = life=20 with Montana Pitch Blend so they shed water like the hood on my '57 = Chevy. =20 I am diabetic with some minor numbness in both feet and I feel very = confident=20 wearing them around rocks & Texas cactus (and the stray = copperhead). =20 The boots are all leather and sewn with linen thread and come in = large=20 sizes.  The company is run directly from the owner's home and = contacting=20 them with questions is no problem.  I wish I had bought them years=20 ago.
It's very early on Saturday = and I find=20 myself writing in short, choppy sentences that my old journalism = teacher, Mrs.=20 Betty Donovan Knox, would thoroughly disapprove of so I'm going to have = a cup of=20 strong black coffee and go to work.  I have to inspect the = installation of=20 550 tons of asphalt paving for FedEx in the warm Texas muggy = sunshine=20 today.  I'm glad that I'm the inspector instead of somebody = who=20 actually has to work.
TTFN
Lanney
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Randal=20 Bublitz
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 = 10:25=20 PM
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: = footwear

Hi=20 = Keith,           &= nbsp; =20 I've always appreciated a good supportive, hard sole moccasin.  I = broke=20 my heel bone almost a year and a half ago, and I'm still gimpy from = it. =20 Needless to say, I appreciate good footware even more now.  You = might=20 want to check out Fugawee boots and shoes.  They are periodic = correct,=20 and are shoes and boots.  The cost isn't much, if any , more than = good=20 mocs.  Stitchin' Scotsman makes some good hard sole side seam = mocs, if=20 you want to stick to mocs.   Just a suggestion.  = Randy
http://www.stitchinscotsman.com= /
 
 
 ----------------------=20 hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C476C1.065ADBC0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "trampas4@juno.com" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: footwear Date: 31 Jul 2004 11:01:39 GMT I agree with Tom. I too started out as a tender foot! I even had dyers. Over time I have become very comfortable with my soft sole mocs. In fact I enjoy them, they are like a pair of socks. I even bring them on modern camps and hunts. The more you wear them the more your feet toughen up. Its all about getting acclimated and just how far you want to go in being P.C.,as well as your health.Just remember we are doing this for fun and those men did this stuff for a living. I wear side seams and pucker-toes since I portray a trapper in the rocky mtn west during the 1830s.All of mine are double sole, this helps a lot. When things get rough I will cut out pads of hair on buffalo, deer or elk. Its like cheating, it feels so good. I have used elk, deer,buffalo and moose. In both commercial and braintan. I prefer braintan, but commercial works fine. The elk and moose seem to hold up much better in my experience. One thing to remember is that nothing waterproofs them! Alway carry two pairs. The fit is the most important thing of all, make sure the seams don't rub. Gee,I always thought the upper Missouri had something to do with the RMFT, didn't it? Bill G AMM# 1880 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear Date: 31 Jul 2004 06:52:47 -0600 (MDT) > Geez Beaverboy calm down. Your gonna hyperventilate. Don't worry Capt. I'm OK it's just that sometimes "broad sweeping statements" take my breath away. > > I stand by the basic premise of my original statement. I certainly did not > mean to imply that no one traveled by boat but... Lets see what you wrote "Keeping in mind that virtually all original participants in the RMFT era > were mounted it's understandable how they got by so handily in the various soft sole moccasin styles". Sounds pretty clear to me. "Virtually all original" is pretty clear and pretty sweeping. But now you write "being at ONE TIME OR the OTHER mostly mounted" which I do agree with. You should be a politician! As a mostly boat or on foot trapper portraying the earliest of Mountain Men-Colter, who some consider the "original" MM it is a fact that not many references to Colter being on horse back exist. He did his famous "walk" to Yellowstone not horse back ride. He was in a dugout when captured by the Blackfeet not on horseback. And he walked back to Fort Lisa he didn't go "mounted" and he was barefooted too, no mocs! This all this took place before 1810 which should go as one of the "original participants" doesn't it? Weren't all of Lisa's trips up the Missouri in boats? Didn't he organize the first private trapping adventure up the Missouri after Lewis & Clark returned? In 1807. Doesn't that qualify him as one of the "originals"? I always assumed he was a part of the RMFT. But like I said before, It doesn't matter if they were mounted anyway. They had to set traps on foot in rocky streams and spend the other half of their lives on the rocky ground like the rest of us. Their feet where just tougher than ours. Respectfully yours, bb > Indians being a horse culture and most if not all the brigades in the > hey-day of the RMFT (Rocky Mt. Fur Trade) being at one time or the other > mostly mounted, most folks of the times being much more inured to "having > their feet broke in for walking besides, and all the info in the way of > journals and drawings and sketches showing various types of soft sole > moccasins that it seems most wore soft sole mocs of one design or the > other. > > I thought I%2 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mike hodges Date: 31 Jul 2004 06:41:52 -0700 (PDT) --0-1636972343-1091281312=:58460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Keith, as you have probably already guessed, the AMM members are a pretty outspoken group, and are always willing to lend a bit of helpful advice. check out stitchinscotsman's page. lots of good stuff. Also look at woodenhawks post. Enjoy some fine camaraderie and keep yer powder dry. M Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! --0-1636972343-1091281312=:58460 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Keith, as you have probably already guessed, the AMM members are a pretty outspoken group, and are always willing to lend a bit of helpful advice.  check out stitchinscotsman's page.  lots of good stuff.  Also look at woodenhawks post.  Enjoy some fine camaraderie and keep yer powder dry. M

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New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! --0-1636972343-1091281312=:58460-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Mitchell" Subject: MtMan-List: mocs & amm Date: 31 Jul 2004 09:39:42 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C476E2.4E814E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello=20 thanks for all the info on the mocs seems like I now have a good reason = for trekking more so I can toughen up my feet but I think I will try the = double sole center seam and shoe packs for a bit I seem to have plenty = of skins around the throw tannery but I looks like I have to brain tan = up some moose skins any one that once some skins let me know you're = snail mail address and I will send you a price list I have heard some = great things about the amm but have been unable to see if I could join = them I have gotten a few of their publications up to fort Bridger form = bill Cunningham I thank you again for putting up with my greenhorn = questions and hope it is not much trouble this will be my first deer and = elk hunt with my smoke pole so I want to do it as period as possible but = like emmet heath says don't wait until you got it all or you will never = start your pilgrims journey emmet helps allot of greenhorns in are = blackpowder club he wont say but he had something to do with the start = of fort Bridger thanks again ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C476E2.4E814E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello
thanks for all the info on the mocs = seems like I=20 now have a good reason for trekking more so I can toughen up my feet but = I think=20 I will try the double sole center seam and shoe packs for a bit I seem = to have=20 plenty of skins around the throw tannery but I looks like I have to = brain tan up=20 some moose skins any one that once some skins let me know you're snail = mail=20 address and I will send you a price list I have heard some great things = about=20 the amm but have been unable to see if I could join them I have gotten a = few of=20 their publications up to fort Bridger form bill Cunningham I thank you = again for=20 putting up with my greenhorn questions and hope it is not much trouble = this will=20 be my first deer and elk hunt with my smoke pole so I want to do it as = period as=20 possible but like  emmet heath says don't wait until you got it all = or you=20 will never start your pilgrims journey emmet helps allot of greenhorns = in are=20 blackpowder club he wont say but he had something to do with the start = of fort=20 Bridger thanks again
------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C476E2.4E814E40-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RP Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear Date: 31 Jul 2004 12:04:41 -0700 BB, Not a thing you shared do I disagree with. You just went into a lot more detail than I did. Good on ya. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear Date: 31 Jul 2004 22:06:16 -0600 (MDT) Yeah, whatever. Don't hyperventilate yourself there Capt. Just admit that you were wrong. Good on ya, back at ya. BB > BB, > > Not a thing you shared do I disagree with. You just went into a lot more > detail than I did. Good on ya. > > Capt. Lahti' > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html