From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #78 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, June 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 078 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:18:05 -0700 From: "Gail Carbiener" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tobacco... Louis: Do you crush the mixture to a fine small parts.. You probably dry the berries in the sun. Sounds like the mixture might smoke pretty hot. Can you describe the taste. I will need to look up the other two items, angelica root and mullein. Thanks for the info. Gail Living History MtMan ================= >I smoke kinnikinnick somewhat regularly and really enjoy it. But I do not >mix it with tobacco, which is one substance my body has never learned to >tolerate. I like to gather my own here in the Shining Mtns in the spring >when they start to come out of plant hibernation. I use the dried, crumbled >leaves in a somewhat sparse proportion with other herbs. The red berries are >nice also. I dry them and remove the seeds, as they are large compared to >the berry part and can be a bit harsh. One of my favorite mixtures is with >red willow bark, angelica root and mullein leaves in about equal proprotions >with a smaller amount of kinnikinnick. > > >Red Coyote > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:07:45 -0700 From: "Gail Carbiener" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Plant Lore Class in N. Idaho Lee: This sounds great, do you suppose they might touch on the manazinta tobacco plant? Although I am not a smoker, it is peaked my curiosity on what it would taste like. (I used to be a smoker, didn't everyone) I will be walking the Oregon Trail on the Boardman Bombing Range outside of Hermiston. Also will be walking out of the Blue Mountains down the way Marcus Whitman traveled. A group of us are preparing for the Oregon/California Trails Association convention to be held in Pendleton, OR the second week of August. Appreciate the information, and hope if other classes such as this come to your attention you will post. Gail Living History MtMan - -----Original Message----- From: Lee Newbill To: Muzzleloading Mailing List ; American Mountain Man List Date: Monday, June 01, 1998 9:12 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Plant Lore Class in N. Idaho >The Univ. of Idaho presents a field course in ethnobotany, the study of >plant lore, on June 7 at the Clark Fork Field Campus. > >The course offers a hands-on exploration of the folklore of native plants >and their traditional uses as medicine, food and fiber. The course will >be taught by Steve Brunsfeld, associate professor in the Dept of Forest >Resources, and by independent consultant Richard Old. > >Check in is from 8:30 to 9 a.m., followed immediately by an hour-long >introduction. The field excursion by car caravan begins at 10 a.m. and >includes identification of plants in a variety of habitats and discussion >of their uses. > >Registration is $19. Overnight lodgin at the field campus is $10.70 per >night, per person (there is also a very nice Natl Forest campground just >down the road, at the site of the Northwest Company's Kullyspell House for >about $5 a campsite/night). Participants are asked to bring sturdy >walking shoes, a sack lunch, beverages and a hand lens. No Pets. > >For Registration and reservations, write to Edie Kinucan, Clark Fork Field >Campus, Box 87, Clark Fork, Idaho, 83811, or call 'em at 208-266-1452. > >Newbill's note... these are super classes for the serious buckskinner if >you're in the area. I'll be missing this one cause I'm working on a >Rendezvous preparation. > >Regards > >Lee Newbill >Viola, Idaho >email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu >Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage >http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:19:05 -0400 From: "Mill, Kirk" Subject: MtMan-List: alum Okay, here's another question. Does anybody know a good source for = Alum? I used to be able to get it in 1 pound containers at the drug store, = but now they only sell it in 4 ounce size ( at 2.00 per 4 oz.). For the batch of hides that I've got going now, I've had to go to 4 different stores just to buy 1 =BD pounds. Any ideas?=20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:32:45 -0500 From: "Ken " Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Men of the Cloth I found this rather interesting, as the tradition of ignorance continues today. The state and the church still do not recognize traditional Indian marriage. At least this has been my wife's and my experience. My Pam and I were married by a Cherokee medicine woman in 1972 if my memory is correct. No license, no nothing except for a mutual love and attraction. The ceremony was quite beautiful and we both remember it in detail all these years since. Had I the misfortune to meet Rev. Herbert Beaver and he were to call my Pam a concubine, I would in all probability have shot him between the lights! We had a church ceremony 10 years later so that "uncle" would have his piece of paper and the US Army would "accept" our marriage. Now, 26 years later, I understand even more how the fur traders and mountain men must have felt. Any society that has to depend on paper instead of a mans word is worth getting away from! YMOS, Ken YellowFeather and his devoted wife Pamela "Calamity" Jane Wheeler - ---------- > From: Angela Gottfred > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Men of the Cloth > Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 1:40 PM > > I mentioned that Protestant and Catholic missionaries were strikingly > different in their attitudes. Here is what Sylvia Van Kirk has to say about > another man of the cloth, whom I missed in my original message: > > "[Fort Vancouver's] first clergyman, the Reverend Herbert Beaver, was > totally unsympathetic to the fur-trade custom [of marriage according to > Native tradition], in spite of his appropriate name. Arriving in the fall of > 1836 with his English wife, Jane, he denounced Fort Vancouver as a > 'deplorable scene of vice and ignorance'. He refused to give any credence to > 'the custom of the country', styling the traders' wives as concubines and > chastising the men for indulging in fornication. This...understandably > outraged fiery tempered Chief Factor John McLoughlin... To Beaver, good Mrs. > McLoughlin was only a 'kept Mistress' who could not be allowed to associate > with properly married females such as his own wife." (p154-155) > > In 1838, after Beaver left Ft. Vancouver, two Catholic priests, Francois N. > Banchet and Modeste Demers arrived, via Fort Edmonton. Their attitude toward > 'country marriages' was markedly different; their marriage ceremonies were > intended to 'renew & ratify' these existing marriages, and for the couple to > formally recognize the legitimacy of their children. > > For more information on the early Canadian men of the cloth, and the fur > trade, I strongly recommend : > Van Kirk, Sylvia. _Many Tender Ties : Women in Fur-Trade Society, > 1670-1870_. Watson & Dwyer : Winnipeg, 1980. ISBN 0-920486-06-1 > > Your humble & obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred > agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:39:59 -0500 From: "Ken " Subject: Re: MtMan-List: alum Ask the pharmacist to order you a larger quantity or you might check in t= he canning section of your local grocery store. You might also check with yo= ur local farm store. ( Southern States Co-op ) Check to see if you have an American Scientific store nearby or a similar store, as they sell chemica= ls in bulk. Hope this helps. YellowFeather - ---------- From: Mill, Kirk To: ML MAILING LIST Cc: history mailing list Subject: MtMan-List: alum Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 3:19 PM Okay, here's another question. Does anybody know a good source for Alum? I used to be able to get it in 1 pound containers at the drug store, but now they only sell it in 4 ounce size ( at 2.00 per 4 oz.). For the batch of hides that I've got going now, I've had to go to 4 different stores just to buy 1 =BD pounds. Any ideas?=20 - ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:03:45 -0500 From: "Ken " Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tobacco... Mullen leaves are fantastic! Not only do they make great toilet paper substitute but when properly dried they smoke as smooth as silk. At one time they were used for people with TB to smoke. The smoke coats the bronchial passages and deaden the sensitivity of the lungs. It helped to reduce the coughing spasms. I have added it to my pipe tobacco for years. YMOS, YellowFeather - ---------- > From: Gail Carbiener > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tobacco... > Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 3:18 PM > > Louis: > Do you crush the mixture to a fine small parts.. You probably dry the > berries in the sun. Sounds like the mixture might smoke pretty hot. Can you > describe the taste. I will need to look up the other two items, angelica > root and mullein. Thanks for the info. > Gail > Living History MtMan > ================= > > >I smoke kinnikinnick somewhat regularly and really enjoy it. But I do not > >mix it with tobacco, which is one substance my body has never learned to > >tolerate. I like to gather my own here in the Shining Mtns in the spring > >when they start to come out of plant hibernation. I use the dried, crumbled > >leaves in a somewhat sparse proportion with other herbs. The red berries > are > >nice also. I dry them and remove the seeds, as they are large compared to > >the berry part and can be a bit harsh. One of my favorite mixtures is with > >red willow bark, angelica root and mullein leaves in about equal > proprotions > >with a smaller amount of kinnikinnick. > > > > > >Red Coyote > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:32:19 EDT From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: alum Kirk Mill asked: "Okay, here's another question. Does anybody know a good source for Alum?...." I have bought it at Tandy. They sell it for tanning. I've also seen it in taxidermy supply catalogs. Ghosting Wolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:34:11 -0600 From: "Ron" Subject: MtMan-List: Tanning In Laubins Tipi book, they state that a modern substitute for brains, used in tanning hides, is Lard mixed with flour, the flour is used to float the lard. Has anyone tried this? Does the finished hide resemble brain tanned hides? While I know it wouldn't be authentic, I was wondering if it was a good enough substitute, without the mess. Thanks in advance! Ron Ron's Idaho Pages Email \|/ / \ / \ / 0 \ Lonewolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:59:38 GMT From: bamafan@Traveller.COM (PHIL PETERSEN) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: alum You may be sorry. That alum tan is prett rough. Contact Longtrail for the "easy" way to do your tanning. Phil>Okay, here's another question. Does anybody know a good source for= Alum? >I used to be able to get it in 1 pound containers at the drug store, but >now they only sell it in 4 ounce size ( at 2.00 per 4 oz.). For the >batch of hides that I've got going now, I've had to go to 4 different >stores just to buy 1 =BD pounds. Any ideas?=20 > > ------------------------------ Date: 02 Jun 98 15:11:10 +0000 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: RE: Fwd: MtMan-List: lodges.. I agree about going and see one first, but don't worry too much about partying drunks. There are always some there and I have been one once in a while. Usually they don't bother anyone and, there aren't as many as there used to be and they don't last as long. Old age? Look at all kinds of setups, trader's wares and go ahead and ask questions. 99.9% of the people there are friendly and love to answer questions. Do some checking and questions first and you will save a lot of money and frustrations. Get Muzzloader Magazine and maybe some books like the Bokks of Buxkskinning 1 thru 7 for lots of ideas. Probably a good guess you will make some friends the first do you go to, so you can get some help from them. Go look but be forewarned: you will probably get hooked. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS Traphand wrote: >canvas that is white would fit the era better. i do not think a green one >would go over to good . a small wedge tent would be better. > traphand > >Return-Path: >Received: from relay25.mx.aol.com (relay25.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.25]) by > air09.mail.aol.com (v43.20) with SMTP; Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:25:25 > -0400 >Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) > by relay25.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) > with SMTP id PAA27961; > Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:25:00 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0ygaAU-0003Hn-00; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:22:50 -0600 >Received: from (xmission.xmission.com) [198.60.22.2] (drudy) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0ygaAO-0003HY-00; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:22:48 -0600 >Received: (from drudy@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.7.5) id > NAA23518 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:22:43 > -0600 (MDT) >Received: from (mail.xmission.com) [198.60.22.22] > by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0ygZLi-00071b-00; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:30:22 -0600 >Received: from (aydin.com) [12.3.210.10] > by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #2) > id 0ygZLf-0001kK-00; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:30:19 -0600 >Received: from acush02.aydin.com ([10.50.10.12]) by gateway.aydin.com with > ESMTP id <26888>; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:35:01 -0400 >Received: by exchange.aydin.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) > id ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:25:03 -0400 >Message-ID: >From: "Mill, Kirk" >To: ML MAILING LIST >Cc: history mailing list >Subject: MtMan-List: lodges >Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:30:55 -0400 >X-Priority: 3 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > >I have a question for you folks. I am trying to get started in >buckskinning and am assembling my outfit. My question is in regard to >appropriate lodges. I have an old canvas wall tent that I believe would >be period correct except that it is green. Every rendezvous picture that >I have seen shows white lodges only. What do you think? > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > >Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com > (SMTPD32-4.03) id AD6E46C0140; Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:19:58 MDT >Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0ygiQp-00061L-00; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:12:15 -0600 >Received: from (xmission.xmission.com) [198.60.22.2] (drudy) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0ygiQm-00060i-00; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:12:12 -0600 >Received: (from drudy@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.7.5) id >WAA03063 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:12:11 - -0600 (MDT) >Received: from (imo12.mx.aol.com) [198.81.17.34] > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0ygg1y-0006AZ-00; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:38:26 -0600 >Received: from Traphand@aol.com > by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id OCKQa08707 > for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:37:03 +2000 (EDT) >From: >Message-ID: <447b4770.35735741@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:37:03 EDT >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Fwd: MtMan-List: lodges >Content-type: multipart/mixed; > boundary="part0_896751424_boundary" >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >X-UIDL: 891663648 >Status: U > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:20:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill Subject: MtMan-List: Wild Medicinal Plants Class (N. Idaho) On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Gail Carbiener wrote: > This sounds great, do you suppose they might touch on the manazinta > tobacco plant? Although I am not a smoker, it is peaked my curiosity on what > it would taste like. (I used to be a smoker, didn't everyone) Wow, what a great lead in for the second class in June. I don't know precisely if the instructors will cover manazinta, but you can bet they will if it's brought up by interested students :) Anyway, on June 27-28, a class on the "Wild Medicinal Plants of North Idaho" will be hosted by the Univ of Idaho's Clark Fork Field Campus. The class is a one day affair, with a class on Sat, and one on Sun. Class will Instruct participants on identification and use of medicinal plants in the region. The workshop will be presented by Barbara St. Dennis, a practicing medicanl herbalist who emphasizes safe herbalism. Registration is $19. Overnight lodging at the field campus is $10.70 per night, per person (nearby Natl Forest campground costs just $5.00/night). Participants are asked to bring sturdy walking shoes, a sack lunch, beverages and a hand lens. No Pets. For Registration and reservations, write to Edie Kinucan, Clark Fork Field Campus, Box 87, Clark Fork, Idaho, 83811, or call 'em at 208-266-1452. Again, these are super classes for the serious skinner, and agian, I'll miss it cause I'll be gone ta Rendezvous. Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:04:30 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Canoes? Hello the Camp, While perusing my latest =93Maine Antique Digest=94 I came across the fol= lowing request for help. I thought it might make an interesting topic for the list, and we might be able to help. Begin article transcription:_________________ =93LEWIS & CLARK CANOES In the journals of September 27 to October 7, 1805, five canoes were hewn from pine trees. Do any drawings or other details exist for these crafts= ? The Gorge Discovery Center & Wasco County Historical Museum is looking fo= r details in the hopes that we might replicate one or more of the vessels. Any help would be appreciated. Also anyone wishing knowledge of the trai= l in this area (The Dalles, Oregon), especially Rock Fort, please ask. .=94 End article transcription:_______________________ I don=92t have any direct information; but, I=92m betting if anyone does someone on this list can probably help them out. Or perhaps know of another list that can. Best I can figure it would be pretty much a standard dugout canoe like ma= ny existing examples in museums. Off hand I remember one good old one in Indianapolis at the State Museum downtown, at least it was there in=9279. I am Cc:ing them a copy of this posting and would suggest those with inp= ut do the same so they can follow the discussion. (Just hit the =93Reply to All=94 button on this original message when you reply, and it should happ= en automatically). So who knows? John =20 Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.=20 john kramer@kramerize.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:28:47 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: alum At 04:19 PM 6/2/98 -0400, you wrote: >Okay, here's another question. Does anybody know a good source for Alum? >I used to be able to get it in 1 pound containers at the drug store, but >now they only sell it in 4 ounce size ( at 2.00 per 4 oz.). For the >batch of hides that I've got going now, I've had to go to 4 different >stores just to buy 1 =BD pounds. Any ideas?=20 >=20 Try calling the commercial chemical and industrial supply houses in any= major city yellow pages. Most will have a minimum purchase requirement. Many= will be as low as 5lbs cash & carry. John... John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<<=A0 -=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< http://www.kramerize.com/ mail to: john=20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:33:52 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: lodges At 08:31 AM 6/2/98 -0700, Capt. Lahti wrote: >Kirk; > >I went to Eagle Hardware and bought one of their 9' by 12' painters drop >cloths for $20 and ran it through the wash to shrink and tighten it up. I >then water proofed it with a comercial waterproofing agent and installed >gromets in the corners and along the edge. I would suggest just tying small marble size stones in the corners where you need ties. Metal grommets are a little late for the period. Unless brass or iron rings are sewn in with a button hole stitch. Sewing on lengths of cotton webbing is another good alternative. I've found the stones work well, are cheap, fast and easy to re-rig. See the list archive for extensive discussions on waterproofing cloth. John... Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer kramer@kramerize.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:37:43 EDT From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: lodges In a message dated 98-06-03 00:10:33 EDT, you write: << I would suggest just tying small marble size stones in the corners where you need ties. Metal grommets are a little late for the period. Unless brass or iron rings are sewn in with a button hole stitch. Sewing on lengths of cotton webbing is another good alternative. I've found the stones work well, are cheap, fast and easy to re-rig. See the list archive for extensive discussions on waterproofing cloth. John... >> .62 or better round balls worked fine for me....also picked up some large glass marbles. Longshot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:22:31 -0500 From: "Scott Allen" Subject: MtMan-List: Tornados and other bad weather Hello the list, Just putting out a note to make sure that everyone on the list from western Maryland and northeast, West Virginia and Pennsylvania made it thru the tornados and bad storms of the past couple of days. Speak up so we know you are still out there. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:34:41 -0700 From: "JON P TOWNS" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tanning This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD8E4C.B9296B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron: I have used a method called soap tan use Phelps papha soap Spelling is wrong. It is easy to do and you are not rushed to finish the deer hide. The process calls for rubbing in lard it never said anything about flour but it smoked up good and came out real soft and white. I done this on a mountain with out any electric or anything. Later Jon T - ---------- : From: Ron : To: hist_text@xmission.com : Subject: MtMan-List: Tanning : Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 3:34 PM : : In Laubins Tipi book, they state that a modern substitute for brains, used : in tanning hides, is Lard mixed with flour, the flour is used to float the : lard. : : Has anyone tried this? : Does the finished hide resemble brain tanned hides? : While I know it wouldn't be authentic, I was wondering if it was a good : enough substitute, without the mess. : : Thanks in advance! : Ron : : : Ron's Idaho Pages : : Email : : \|/ : / \ : / \ : / 0 \ Lonewolf - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD8E4C.B9296B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ron:  I have used a method called = soap tan use Phelps papha soap Spelling is wrong.  It is easy to do = and you are not rushed to finish the deer hide.  The process calls = for rubbing in lard it never said anything about flour but it smoked up = good and came out real soft and white.  I done this on a mountain = with out any electric or anything.  Later Jon T =

----------
: From: Ron <cstmzd@ida.net>
: = To: hist_text@xmission.com
: Subject: MtMan-List: Tanning
: Date: Tuesday, = June 02, 1998 3:34 PM
:
: In Laubins Tipi book, they state that a = modern substitute for brains, used
: in tanning hides, is Lard mixed = with flour, the flour is used to float the
: lard.
:
: Has = anyone tried this?  
: Does the finished hide resemble brain = tanned hides?
: While I know it wouldn't be authentic, I was = wondering if it was a good
: enough substitute, without the = mess.
:
: Thanks in advance!
: Ron
:
:
: Ron's = Idaho Pages
: <http://www.ida.net/users/cstmzd/>
: Email <cstmzd@ida.net>
: =
:      \|/
: =      / \
:    / =     \
:  /    0   \ = Lonewolf

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD8E4C.B9296B40-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:25:00 EDT From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: alum For anyone interested in Alum Tanning, I would suggest contacting Kent Klein who wrote a booklet entitled "Tan Your Hide the Alum Way." I have seen many of Kents hides and they are superb and almost indistigushable from brain tanned. My friend purchsed a 50 lb bag of alum at a chemical supply store. Kent can be contacted at KleinKC@juno.com Todd Glover ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 07:30:01 -0600 From: "Sickler, Louis L" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: tobacco... Gail, Here in Denver, CO we have a store called Alfalfa's that carries a LOT of natural herbs. Most of what I use comes from there and is already fairly finely ground/crushed. This especially applies to the angelica, mullein and sumac berries (which I didn't mention before, sorry). I couldn't tell angelica in the forest from hemlock - a real BAD thing (not that they are similar, but you get my drift). It is just SAFER that way. I do gather my own red willow bark from my favorite elk hunting beaver pond area and kinnickinnick from anywhere west of here that I happen to be hiking. These are EASY to identify and I feel OK using them. But, yes, all the ingredients are fine, small parts. The kinnickinnick berries are already pretty dry naturally, they're not like cherries or anything. I usually just hang a whole bunch of leaves and berries as they were gathered in my basement room for a while until all are dry. Then break up the leaves with my fingers while separating the berries. Like I said before, I try to remove the seeds from the berries as much as possible, they are large compared with the berry material and don't taste especially good. I guess you could say it smokes rather hot, but in a clay pipe tobacco gets pretty warm too. I use a clay pipe that was excavated from a pipe manufacturing business in central Ohio. The pipe was from a trash area that was dated to be in use before 1840, how lucky! I do not recall any references to mountain men rolling their own cigarettes out of kinnickinnick, etc. , but the references to clay pipes (and even white men owning and using pipestone pipes) are numerous. As for the taste, it's hard to describe, but is very nice. Once you smell the odor of red willow bark wafting through the camp, you'll never forget it. It's sort of like the stuff left over from the manufacture of ropes, that we're not supposed to smoke - very distinctive. It is not harsh at all and can be inhaled without irritation. I do not consider myself a smoker & do not smoke this stuff a lot, but when I want the taste & odor of my last camp out, I break out the old pipe. Hope this helps some. YMHOS, Red Coyote > ---------- > From: Gail Carbiener > Reply To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 1998 14:18 > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tobacco... > > Louis: > Do you crush the mixture to a fine small parts.. You probably dry the > berries in the sun. Sounds like the mixture might smoke pretty hot. Can > you > describe the taste. I will need to look up the other two items, angelica > root and mullein. Thanks for the info. > Gail > Living History MtMan > ================= > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:19:29 -0500 From: Monte Holder Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tobacco... Sickler, Louis L wrote: > I do gather my own red willow bark from > my favorite elk hunting beaver pond area and kinnickinnick from anywhere > west of here that I happen to be hiking. These are EASY to identify and I > feel OK using them. > Is there another name for kinnickinnick that I missed somewhere along the way? And what is its growing range? I would assume if there are berries, there would be seeds. Wonder if a guy could grow some here in Missouri? Monte Holder Saline CO MO BTW, I grow some tobacco here in central Missouri from time to time and smoke it occasionally in a pipe, but it really works great for keeping hornworms off my tomatos and they are easier to see on those great big leaves. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:10:59 -0700 From: j2hearts@juno.com (john c funk,jr) Subject: MtMan-List: Re: tobacco... Ken, You mentioned in your "tobacco" note that "when dried properly".......mullen smokes "smooth as silk". What constitutes "dried properly"? I have tried dried mullen and found it quite harsh!!!!! John Funk _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 08:16:18 -0700 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Canoes? John; I passed this on to a friend of mine in Western Idaho, Vern Illi. He and = his group made several dug-out canoes from yellow pine last summer to float d= own the Clearwater R. on the first few water miles of the L and C trip to the Pacific. They stopped at Lewiston ID. Vern may be able to give you some i= nfo on design and material. Vern is at ' vern_illi@wsu.edu'. Your comments on tarps and grommets is well taken. I was in a bigger hurr= y than good sense should allow. Alas, it's like so many things we see on this li= st that are expedients verses doing it right. We cut corners all too often. YMOS Capt. Lahti John Kramer wrote: > Hello the Camp, > > While perusing my latest =93Maine Antique Digest=94 I came across the f= ollowing > request for help. I thought it might make an interesting topic for the > list, and we might be able to help. > > Begin article transcription:_________________ > > =93LEWIS & CLARK CANOES > In the journals of September 27 to October 7, 1805, five canoes were he= wn > from pine trees. Do any drawings or other details exist for these craf= ts? > The Gorge Discovery Center & Wasco County Historical Museum is looking = for > details in the hopes that we might replicate one or more of the vessels. > Any help would be appreciated. Also anyone wishing knowledge of the tr= ail > in this area (The Dalles, Oregon), especially Rock Fort, please ask. > .=94 > > End article transcription:_______________________ > > I don=92t have any direct information; but, I=92m betting if anyone doe= s > someone on this list can probably help them out. Or perhaps know of > another list that can. > > Best I can figure it would be pretty much a standard dugout canoe like = many > existing examples in museums. Off hand I remember one good old one in > Indianapolis at the State Museum downtown, at least it was there in=927= 9. > > I am Cc:ing them a copy of this posting and would suggest those with i= nput > do the same so they can follow the discussion. (Just hit the =93Reply = to > All=94 button on this original message when you reply, and it should ha= ppen > automatically). > > So who knows? > > John > > > Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. > john kramer@kramerize.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 08:58:20 -0700 From: Kevin Kierst Subject: MtMan-List: Help! My kid wants to be a buckskinner! Anybody, My almost 12-yr old has been bitten bad: reads nothing but fur trade books, built himself a MM rig, plans to move to canada in a few yrs and live the life. He's getting a .40 caliber muzzleloader for his birhtday, but neither of us know anything about shooting. I'm looking for books/videos that could help a couple of novices. Thanks. K.Kierst ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #78 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.