From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1065 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Saturday, July 27 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1065 In this issue: -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Ft. Bridger -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: fleas & lice -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: fleas & lice -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: fleas & lice -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Re Fleas and Lice -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Fleas, lice, crabs and Indians bath's -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Was Fleas, lice, crabs and Indians bath's - now Winter Quarters -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: capote pattern -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:58:09 EDT From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ft. Bridger - --part1_113.14ead30b.2a70df61_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/24/2002 3:59:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sbanks@wyoming.com writes: > I'm looking for info on the Ft. Bridger Rendezvous this Labor Day: > Steve, It's scheduled for Labor Day weekend, August 31 - September 2, 2002. Contact info is The Fort Bridger Rendezvous Association @ (307) 782-3842. Barney - --part1_113.14ead30b.2a70df61_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/24/2002 3:59:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sbanks@wyoming.com writes:

I'm looking for info on the Ft. Bridger Rendezvous this Labor Day:

Steve, It's scheduled for Labor Day weekend, August 31 - September 2, 2002. Contact info is The Fort Bridger Rendezvous Association @ (307) 782-3842.

Barney - --part1_113.14ead30b.2a70df61_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:53:24 -0500 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: fleas & lice I have read some of the accounts of trappers putting their clothes over ant hills in the spring to rid them of lice. But I have always doubted the necessity of waiting until spring to get rid of the critters. An acquaintance that lives in an 8000ft. elevation community in Colorado has told me that fleas and lice cannot survive the altitude and dry air there and especially not the cold in winter. Admittedly, that is second hand info but, if true, trappers in the Rockies would not have been bothered by the critters. And fleas have a very limited temperature range in which they can survive. Cold will kill them and their eggs. At one time our home got an infestation of fleas from a pet. We tried everything to get rid of them with no success. Until one day in the winter I simply turned off the furnace and opened the windows. We left the house for about twelve hours. In that time everything, furniture, carpets, etc. got down to about 30 degrees. From then on no more fleas. I can see where old Titus Bass might have got his nickname Scratch in the warmer, wetter region of St. Louis and the river country but in the mountains all one would have to do is take off their clothes for a couple hours and no more fleas or lice. Right? Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:55:58 EDT From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fleas & lice Against a living body the temperature would not fall to below a livable range. In fact when we catch beaver under ice, and the do come out from under the ice, they are almost always have a health population of fleas. TrapRJoe - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:21:55 -0600 From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fleas & lice I don't think that very many trapper's wintered at or above 8,000 feet. Many of the original winter camp locations I am familiar with are much lower than that. Gene "Bead Shooter" Hickman >...An acquaintance that lives in an 8000ft. elevation> >community in Colorado has told me that fleas and lice> >cannot survive the altitude and dry air there and especially> >not the cold in winter. Admittedly, that is second hand info> >but, if true, trappers in the Rockies would not have been> >bothered by the critters....> > Frank G. Fusco > Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:14:52 -0700 From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers Thanks to everyone who contributed info on bathing,. Most enlightening and informative. The notion of not smoking is a revelation, and something to take into account in my novel, since hero smokes a clay pipe. Maybe he'll have to go cold turket during the trapping season, eh? Geri D - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:34:51 -0700 From: Pat Quilter Subject: MtMan-List: Re Fleas and Lice Considering that this was a somewhat delicate subject, the limited number of references to fleas and lice take on added significance. All of us have seen complaints in pioneer and other frontier journals. Lewis and Clark noted flea attacks while camping at certain dismantled Indian villages in the Columbia river basin. They remarked that the plank dwellings had been dismantled and pinned under water in an apparent attempt to kill off "the sagacious critters". That this situation was worthy of note indicates they were not ALWAYS infested (and also supports the notion that fleas survive in lower elevations). Lewis Garrard remarks humorously at a newbie's complaints about being bitten, and also noted elsewhere that he had become "not at all fastidious" which I take to indicate resignation to vermin. Various remedies such as putting clothes on anthills or even boiling shirts etc indicate that fleas were a known problem, otherwise, why make note of what to do about it? Modern people who live on the ground for prolonged periods get lice unless they maintain modern hygienic habits such as daily bathing and frequent laundering. These were not the conditions on the frontier. Sailors battled vermin. The British navy of the period were fairly vermin-free due to regular shipboard scrubbing, but prisoners or local traders were often lousy. At the risk of engaging in informed supposition (which is not quite the same as fantasy) I would feel safe in assuming that trappers (and Indians) were frequently if not typically infested with fleas and lice. Like many other chronic annoyances, one probably tolerated it to a point and then did something about it. I also have a strong suspicion that smoked buckskin clothing is somewhat less vermin-friendly than cloth, and the Indian style of dress probably provided somewhat fewer places for bugs to hide. Pat Quilter - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:22:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Subject: MtMan-List: Fleas, lice, crabs and Indians bath's Charles Larpentaur in his wonderful book "Forty Years a Fur Trader on the Upper Missouri" gives a reference to being invited to sleep with some indians in their lodge and regretting it almost instantly after stretching out in their bed as he became infested with lice. He became infested which means he must not have had them before. Lice is much worse than fleas as fleas are easily picked off. I've worked in a skinning room were fleas were jumping off of dead critters like a ship going down! They never seemed to be a problem.(for me anyway) I have had lots of fleas on me but never lice. I've seen lice on kids heads before and they are much worse to get rid of. I'm willing to bet that most of the problems were lice or crabs? Not so much fleas. A mean trick to do was collect a dozen or more fleas and put them in a small vile. Then when you run into a guy you don't like at the bar that night you would empty the vile on his back discreetly as you walked by. Then sit back at your table and watch the show! I never did that but know a guy who did. As soon as a trapper killed another flea laden animal such as a wolf, coyote and especially a fox he would get more fleas. Usually these fleas look for another host, like your dog. Just carrying a freshly dead coyote or especially a red fox a short distance and you have to wipe the fleas off of the arm you were using to carry it. This is done every minute until you get to your destination or the animal runs out of fleas. Beaver can indeed have fleas but they are water fleas, altogether another type of flea. I don't think they survive on land. I only find them on a small portion of our beaver here in Montana, say perhaps 10% at most. I've never seen one go to a human or any other land animal for that matter. Gene is correct. Not many Mountain Men would ever winter at 8000' feet! That altitude is only free of snow a short time each year. From what I've read they usually found a nice protected river valley with lots of grass or cottonwoods to feed their horses, and made "winter quarters". Or they wintered at a fort.(or right outside the fort anyway) I read a journal account on Indians bathing were the trapper said that indians were in the water daily in warm months and never went near it when the water got icy. I'm sure they were as grubby as white guys and I'm sure some people stayed cleaner than others just like today. Excuse me I have to go take a shower now. Beaverboy - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:27:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Subject: MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers Geri, What did you hear about smoking? Osborn Russell gives several accounts of smoking his pipe in his journal (1834-43) 2/3 of Lewis & Clark's men used tobaccy either smoking or chewing it. The Mandans also grew smoking tobacco (indian tobacco not white man) What did you hear about smoking? Beaverboy - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:08:25 EDT From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Was Fleas, lice, crabs and Indians bath's - now Winter Quarters For a terriffic article on winter camps, you all should check out the Spring 2002 edition of Montana Magazine. It's Vol 52, No. 1, if that helps. Kerry Oman, a PhD candidate who got his master degree under Fred Gowans and is now studying under David Weber at SMU did a terriffic job on this paper. He presented it at the Fur Trade Symposium at Pinedale several years back and now it is finally in print. The article received the Merrill G. Burlingame-K. Ross Toole Award for best student manuscript in 2001. If you can't find a copy, The Museum of the Mountain Man in Pinedale, WY sells it and they can be reached at 307-367-4101. Jim Hardee, AMM#1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 00:52:14 -0600 From: "Michael Powell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: capote pattern - ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C2343E.AF0BD480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Frank, Having made close to 600 capotes in my years and a capote maker by Rendez= vous trade, I can tell you that all patterns are basically the same. Wha= t makes each one unique is the amount of tailoring and customizing a pers= on does to it. Any pattern can be modified to what you are talking about= . However, folks get a little shy about cutting into a $140 blanket if t= hey don't have a lot of experience. Make a paper pattern first and the o= l' "measure twice, cut once" helps to watch for mistakes. The biggest th= ing about a capote pattern is that as long as you don't make a serious bl= under, the pattern is fairly forgiving. Let me know, off list, if I can be of further assistance. By the way, Ci= ndy is still looking for a good material for the vest you wanted. Later, Mike =20 - ----- Original Message ----- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:52 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: capote pattern Hello list, I have spoken to wes housler a few months ago, and we discussed capote pa= tterns, in our discussion he was researching a more correct pattern of ca= pote very similar to the great lakes capot, with the arms being slightly = curved and the length being mid-thigh and having more of a cuff , and the= waist being abit more flared rather than the straight cut of the typical= patterns of today. I have made several capotes from paul muellers patte= rn , but if anyone has a pattern of my description or a place for me to o= btain one I would appreciate any info and input. thanks frank sablan Odessa, texas Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http:/= /explorer.msn.com - ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C2343E.AF0BD480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Frank,

<= DIV>Having made close to 600 capotes in my years and a capote maker by Re= ndezvous trade, I can tell you that all patterns are basically the same.&= nbsp; What makes each one unique is the amount of tailoring and customizi= ng a person does to it. Any pattern can be modified to what you are= talking about. However, folks get a little shy about cutting into = a $140 blanket if they don't have a lot of experience. Make a paper= pattern first and the ol' "measure twice, cut once" helps to watch = for mistakes. The biggest thing about a capote pattern is that as l= ong as you don't make a serious blunder, the pattern is fairly forgiving.=

Let me know, off list, if I can be of further assistance= . By the way, Cindy is still looking for a good material for t= he vest you wanted.

Later,

Mike

<= DIV>

=
----- Original Message -----

From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com

Sent: Mo= nday, July 22, 2002 1:52 PM

To:<= /B> hist_text@lists.xmission.com

Subject: MtMan-List: capote pattern

Hello list,
I have spoken to wes housler a few months ago, and we= discussed capote patterns, in our discussion he was researching a more c= orrect pattern of capote very similar to the great lakes capot, with the = arms being slightly curved and the length being mid-thigh and having more= of a cuff , and the waist being abit more flared rather than the straigh= t cut of the typical patterns of today. I have made several capotes= from paul muellers pattern , but if anyone has a pattern of my descripti= on or a place for me to obtain one I would appreciate any info and input.=

thanks
frank sablan
Odessa, texas

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Expl= orer download : http://explorer.msn.c= om
- ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C2343E.AF0BD480-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:43:38 EDT From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers Most animals are courious. Not associating the sent of smoke with people, it might have helped. You might be surprised at just how many animals are caught using ladies perfume. TrapRJoe - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:53:02 +1200 From: Duncan Macready Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers TrapRJoe wrote: You might be surprised at just how many animals are caught using ladies perfume. Fair enough , a lot of ladies have been caught using animal furs. Cheers Dunc - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #1065 ******************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.