From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1118 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, December 6 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1118 In this issue: -       Re: Re: MtMan-List: Apostle belts/pouch horns -       Re: Re: MtMan-List: Apostle belts/pouch horns -       MtMan-List: In Search Of . . . . -       Re: MtMan-List: In Search Of . . . . -       Re: MtMan-List: In Search Of . . . . -       Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes -       Re: MtMan-List: Re-smoking hides -       Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes -       Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes -       Re: MtMan-List: Re-smoking hides -       Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes -       Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes -       Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes -       Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes -       Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes -       Re: MtMan-List: In Search Of . . . . -       MtMan-List: 2nd amendment? -       Re: MtMan-List: Apostle belts/pouch horns -       Re: MtMan-List: Apostle belts/pouch horns -       MtMan-List: have you seen this site?? -       Re: MtMan-List: Apostle belts/pouch horns -       Re: Re: MtMan-List: Apostle belts/pouch horns ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:39:54 -0700 From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Apostle belts/pouch horns > Thanks for your answer! I suspected as much even though having no > set charges readly available seems counter intuitive given that they > seem to have had loading blocks. BTW, an pouch horn is just similar > to a powder horn but is flat and placed inside the huniting bag > instead worn outside. > > Two Feathers I will stand by my answer then that most of the art work shows a trapper with a horn on the outside of the pouch. I would like to see evidence of loading blocks. Other than carrying a few rounds in their mouth I have not seen anything of that like either. Wynn Ormond - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:07:13 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Branson Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Apostle belts/pouch horns - --0-363821221-1039122433=:10246 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii concerning this issue of whether loading blocks were used in the fur trade days. I refer you to the Oct issue of American Hunter Magazine, 1975. Article entitled: "A Real Hunters Rifle." This particular rifle with hunting pouch and powder horn and all accoutrements is owned by a collector in Virginia. Attached to the strap of the bag in the accompanying photo is an original loading block that is obviously very old. It is a single piece of hardwood with 4 bullet sized holes bored into it in a single line. In the holes are patched round balls. Old patches and old oxidized lead balls. The pouch and horn, rifle and accoutrements all date from before 1842. The hunter died of old age in 1842. Excellent article with nice color photos of the powder horn with a repair on it, and all of the contents of the hunting pouch along with the rifle. The family kept the gun until the 1970s when it was sold to the collector who allowed it to be photographed for the magazine. There is no reason to doubt the authenticity of the articles because the whole article was put together before people sat around and nit picked such subjects. At least after close axamination of the photos I find them to be genuine in my humble opinion. Mike B Wynn Ormond wrote: > Thanks for your answer! I suspected as much even though having no > set charges readly available seems counter intuitive given that they > seem to have had loading blocks. BTW, an pouch horn is just similar > to a powder horn but is flat and placed inside the huniting bag > instead worn outside. > > Two Feathers I will stand by my answer then that most of the art work shows a trapper with a horn on the outside of the pouch. I would like to see evidence of loading blocks. Other than carrying a few rounds in their mouth I have not seen anything of that like either. Wynn Ormond - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now - --0-363821221-1039122433=:10246 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

concerning this issue of whether loading blocks were used in the fur trade days. I refer you to the Oct issue of American Hunter Magazine, 1975. Article entitled: "A Real Hunters Rifle." This particular rifle with hunting pouch and powder horn and all accoutrements is owned by a collector in Virginia. Attached to the strap of the bag in the accompanying photo is an original loading block that is obviously very old. It is a single piece of hardwood with 4 bullet sized holes bored into it in a single line. In the holes are patched round balls. Old patches and old oxidized lead balls. The pouch and horn, rifle and accoutrements all date from before 1842. The hunter died of old age in 1842. Excellent article with nice color photos of the powder horn with a repair on it,  and all of the contents of the hunting pouch along with the rifle. The family kept the gun until the 1970s when it was sold to the collector who allowed it to be photographed for the magazine. There is no reason to doubt the authenticity of the articles because the whole article was put together before people sat around and nit picked such subjects. At least after close axamination of the photos I find them to be genuine in my humble opinion. Mike B  

 Wynn Ormond <oci@pcu.net> wrote:


> Thanks for your answer! I suspected as much even though having no
> set charges readly available seems counter intuitive given that they
> seem to have had loading blocks. BTW, an pouch horn is just similar
> to a powder horn but is flat and placed inside the huniting bag
> instead worn outside.
>
> Two Feathers

I will stand by my answer then that most of the art work shows a trapper
with a horn on the outside of the pouch.

I would like to see evidence of loading blocks. Other than carrying a few
rounds in their mouth I have not seen anything of that like either.

Wynn Ormond



----------------------
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now - --0-363821221-1039122433=:10246-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:39:38 -0700 From: "sunmac" Subject: MtMan-List: In Search Of . . . . My wife has a question for the group: Where can she find a source of period beading patterns? Info on books, web-sites or anything would help a lot. Oh, yeah, she says she prefers the loom, but can free-hand stitch if necessary. Any help would really be appreciated. This is the first I've been able to get her in to any mountain man activity. Thanks a lot. Mac ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vegetarian - ancient word meaning lousy hunter - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:05:40 -0700 From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: In Search Of . . . . What period and in what location? You know that loom beading and the large solid types of beadwork, that you may be thinking of, don't really appear until the reservation period and later. There is some beautiful beadwork around for various tribes, and in most time periods and places, but again probably not what you may be thinking and not what is normally seen at rendezvous. When I did beadwork. I liked to look at museum or extant pieces for the time and place I was interested in. Then I'd duplicate that pattern or item. YMOS Bead Shooter From: "sunmac" Subject: MtMan-List: In Search Of . . . . > My wife has a question for the group: > > Where can she find a source of period beading patterns? > > Info on books, web-sites or anything would help a lot. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:44:39 -0700 From: Allen Chronister Subject: Re: MtMan-List: In Search Of . . . . Gene is right. And thanks to today's technology there is an amazing amount of information on historical materials that is available on line. One of the most significant in this context is the on line collection resource of the American Museum of Natural History. They have over 50,000 North American Indian objects pictured and briefly described on line. You can search by tribe or by object type. Like all museums, there are numerous tribal mis-attributions, but unlike many other museums, the AMNH is very receptive to input from users, and they have amended a number of their initial designations. And, like most museums, the vast najority of the collection is material that was made after 1870. Even still, the AMNH has a significant number of pre-1850 pieces if you can recognize them. Do this: go to www.amnh.org - --click on "research" at the top of the first page - --click on "anthropology" at the right side of the next page - --under "Research online" on the right side of the next page, click on "collections database" - --click on "North American Eithographic Collection" on the next page (the beaded doll thumbnail, can't miss it) Have fun. Allen Chronister Gene Hickman wrote: > What period and in what location? You know that loom beading and the large > solid types of beadwork, that you may be thinking of, don't really appear > until the reservation period and later. There is some beautiful beadwork > around for various tribes, and in most time periods and places, but again > probably not what you may be thinking and not what is normally seen at > rendezvous. > > When I did beadwork. I liked to look at museum or extant pieces for the time > and place I was interested in. Then I'd duplicate that pattern or item. > > YMOS > Bead Shooter > > From: "sunmac" > Subject: MtMan-List: In Search Of . . . . > > > My wife has a question for the group: > > > > Where can she find a source of period beading patterns? > > > > Info on books, web-sites or anything would help a lot. > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:09:01 -0700 (MST) From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes Richard, You really can't compare phrases like, "they were here first?" to patriotic or religious phrases like "In God we trust". "They were here first" is only one of many catch phrases used by environmentalist. Don't get me wrong, I'm not inferring that you are a environmentalist. I love environmentalist anyway, they're entertainig. I've had lots of talks with Mr. Coyote and he usually gets the point. And should you really compare coyote control to illegal immigrants? How very PI. BB > In a message dated 12/4/02 9:36:45 PM, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: > > << That old worn out phrase, “they were here before us†is just > that, worn out. > I guess I like old worn out phrases like "in God we trust". I'm not so > sure they are worn out. > > We’re here now and Mr. Coyote had better behave himself and keep a > low profile or hunters and trappers will make him behave. >> > Explain that to the coyotes and then remember the explanation when you > visit cities that are over-run with illegal immigrants. > > Most sincerely > Richard James > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:36:07 -0600 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re-smoking hides Any you folks had any luck re-smoking brain tan once it's made into clothing? >> Yep ! The leggins I had on at The National are over 10 yrs. old and have been washed so many times that I felt I had washed too much of smoke out of them. So I resmoked them. I just turned them wrong side out and pinned an old blue jean leg to each of them. Then I hung the leggin from a tree limb and placed the blue jean leg over the end of a stove pipe that had a small wood stove on the other end with a very low burning smoky fire going in it. I kept adding punky wood to it till I got the smoke put back in them that I wanted. Pendleton - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:25:05 -0600 From: Windwalker Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes On Thursday 05 December 2002 19:09, beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > Richard, > You really can't compare phrases like, "they were here first?" to > patriotic or religious phrases like "In God we trust". "They were here > first" is only one of many catch phrases used by environmentalist. Don'= t > get me wrong, I'm not inferring that you are a environmentalist. I love > environmentalist anyway, they're entertainig. > I've had lots of talks with Mr. Coyote and he usually gets the point= =2E > And should you really compare coyote control to illegal immigrants? How > very PI. > BB > > > In a message dated 12/4/02 9:36:45 PM, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: > > > > << That old worn out phrase, =E2=80=9Cthey were here before us=E2=80=9D= is just > > that, worn out. > > I guess I like old worn out phrases like "in God we trust". I'm not = so > > sure they are worn out. > > > > We=E2=80=99re here now and Mr. Coyote had better behave himself and k= eep a > > low profile or hunters and trappers will make him behave. >> > > Explain that to the coyotes and then remember the explanation when yo= u > > visit cities that are over-run with illegal immigrants. > > > > Most sincerely > > Richard James First how about using American fonts in your emails.. In God We trust might be worn out for some.... not all.... And as for illegal,s in U.S.... run em all out... and close the borders.. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:06:43 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes In a message dated 12/5/02 6:12:09 PM, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: << You really can't compare phrases like, "they were here first?" to patriotic or religious phrases like "In God we trust". "They were here first" is only one of many catch phrases >> Now then - who is the one qualified to make these definitions? RJames - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:13:09 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re-smoking hides In a message dated 12/5/02 6:49:46 PM, yrrw@airmail.net writes: << Any you folks had any luck re-smoking brain tan once it's made into clothing? >> Yep ! The leggins I had on at The National are over 10 yrs. old and have been washed so many times that I felt I had washed too much of smoke out of them. So I resmoked them. >> A little different slant on this but substantiating . . . . An old Shoshone lady once told me of how amazed she was to visit some friends. During the visit she went into the kitchen - which had all the doors closed up tight. The reason: members of the family had just finished a big batch of buckskin gloves, THEN decided to smoke them. The smoke was generated in the family cook stove and the gloves were hung above it in appropriate fashion to catch the smoke on and after-the-fact basis. Until they were done, the family just visited in the living room. I have smoked meat in the top of my tipi before and from my recollections of "after", I bet that kitchen smelled great for years after. Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:15:00 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes - --part1_146.450fa3b.2b219a64_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beaverboy I agree with some of what you said Coyotes are one of the most challenging to trap. As a rule is the one set that one is most likely to catch one of the neighbors dogs in too. The Native Americans held them in high regard that is why they had so many legends about Coyote. The Shoshonis claim they are the one animal that reflects man. - --part1_146.450fa3b.2b219a64_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beaverboy
I agree with some of what you said Coyotes are one of the most challenging to trap. As a rule is the one set that one is most likely to catch one of the neighbors dogs in too. The Native Americans held them in high regard that is why they had so many legends about Coyote. The Shoshonis claim they are the one animal that reflects man.

- --part1_146.450fa3b.2b219a64_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:18:55 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes In a message dated 12/5/02 7:18:21 PM, windwalker@fastmail.fm writes: << First how about using American fonts in your emails.. In God We trust might be worn out for some.... not all.... And as for illegal,s in U.S.... run em all out... and close the borders.. >> Fonts?? What's wrong with Times? What is American? - petroglyphs? Followed by your statements that I completely endorse. As far as recent criticisms I have received about being other than politically correct - I lived the far greater part of my life before that trite phrase was coined and I have not intentions to try and subscribe to it. I gather from your statement that neither have you. Correct?? Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:35:21 -0600 From: Windwalker Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes On Friday 06 December 2002 00:18, SWzypher@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/5/02 7:18:21 PM, windwalker@fastmail.fm writes: > > << First how about using American fonts in your emails.. > > > In God We trust might be worn out for some.... not all.... > > And as for illegal,s in U.S.... run em all out... and close the borders= =2E. > > > > > Fonts?? What's wrong with Times? What is American? - petroglyphs? > > Followed by your statements that I completely endorse. As far as recen= t > criticisms I have received about being other than politically correct = - - I > lived the far greater part of my life before that trite phrase was coin= ed > and I have not intentions to try and subscribe to it. I gather from yo= ur > statement that neither have you. Correct?? > > Richard James > As a full blood Native American all I will say is remember custer... and As for American....imports dont count - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 02:23:42 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes - --part1_a.29740247.2b21aa7e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry about this, that last post got away from me before I was done with it. Beaverboy I agree with some of what you said Coyotes are one of the most challenging to trap. And as a rule is the one set that one is most likely to catch one of the neighbors dogs in too. The Native Americans held them in high regard that is why they had so many legends about Coyote. The Shoshonis claim they are the one animal that most reflects man. you said: The coyote can be solitary but prefers to hunt in groups as he can take much larger game this way. They are a very sociable animal and have a language in howls and barks they hunt in groups mostly at night under the cover of darkness (like most sinister characters) (like most sinister characters) They hunt the young of many animals, how noble! < DA! what's the best eaten and easy to catch and is the game of choice of all predators> They will kill for the fun of it and I don't mean just sheep either. The one place I do differ from you is I do have sympathy for them and think they get blamed for more then they actually do. From what I know of them the young are still with their mother at this time of year learning to hunt and as a rule don't get run off until about the end of this month That's what I've seen around here any way. The coyote pays it's part in the food change and helps to keep mother nature in balance. So long as there number stay in balance with there food source. Here in Idaho back in 1970 some of you my remember hearing of the game of bunny base ball being played in the Arco Desert and Mud Lakes area. A big part of the reason for the framers being over run by rabbits was the fact the most of all the coyotes that kept them in check had been killed off, by Sheep men and hunters and trappers. So without them we can have troubles too. I respect them and as rule will not hunt them until they become a problem by being to plentiful. I have had them as pets and found that coyote will always be coyote and are a hard animal to tame and keep for long. See ya down the trail Crazy Cyot - --part1_a.29740247.2b21aa7e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry about this, that last post got away from me before I was done with it.
Beaverboy
I agree with some of what you said Coyotes are one of the most challenging to trap. And as a rule is the one set that one is most likely to catch one of the neighbors dogs in too. The Native Americans held them in high regard that is why they had so many legends about Coyote. The Shoshonis claim they are the one animal that most reflects man.
you said:
The coyote can be solitary but prefers to hunt in groups as he can
take much larger game this way. They are a very sociable animal and have a
language in howls and barks <I say it seem man likes to hunt that way too>
they hunt in groups mostly at night under the cover of darkness (like most sinister characters) <When I call them in it is at night and as a rule always with one other person setting back to back so they can not come in from behind.> (like most sinister characters)
They hunt the young of many animals, how noble! < DA! what's the best eaten and  easy to catch and is the game of choice of all predators>
They will kill for the fun of it and I don't mean just sheep either.  <What do you hunt and trap for? I do it mostly for the fun of it>

The one place I do differ from you is I do have sympathy for them and think they get blamed for more then they actually do. From what I know of them the young are still with their mother at this time of year learning to hunt and as a rule don't get run off until about the end of this month That's what I've seen around here any way.

The coyote pays it's part in the food change and helps to keep mother nature in balance. So long as there number stay in balance with there food source. Here in Idaho back in 1970 some of you my remember hearing of the game of bunny base ball being played in the Arco Desert and Mud Lakes area. A big part of the reason for the framers being over run by rabbits was the fact the most of all the coyotes that kept them in check had been killed off, by Sheep men and hunters and trappers.
So without them we can have troubles too. I respect them and as rule will not hunt them until they become a problem by being to plentiful.
I have had them as pets and found that coyote will always be coyote and are a hard animal to tame and keep for long.
See ya down the trail
Crazy Cyot
- --part1_a.29740247.2b21aa7e_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:32:31 -0500 (EST) From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Coyotes Hello to all ,I don't often post (mostly lurk) here but I should like to throw in my two cents worth on this one! First I don't see any conflict with being a Hunter,Trapper and Environmentalist I am all three,(yes I even once hugged a tree!) if we don't protect Mother Earth and her children there'll be no place to hunt and nothing to trap! I enjoy the Hunt the Kill and finally the good eating that is the reward! The Food Chain is a obvious concept and we are clearly on top (well mostly anyway,maybe with the exception of a Grizzly or two...) To abuse that natural cycle is to court trouble. And as for illegal immigration,while it's obviously a problem that needs be dealt with you can hardly blame people for wanting to come to the best dang country in the the world!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nuff said!!! Thank you for your indulgence, Happy Holidays, M.A.Smith Esq. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:22:43 -0800 From: "Prince, John" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: In Search Of . . . . Try: http://www.nativetech.org/ This site has some good general information on beadwork though it is primarily focused on Eastern woodland tribes. However, it does have an area that lists various books on Indian beadwork that are available on-line and elsewhere. Two Feathers > My wife has a question for the group: > > Where can she find a source of period beading patterns? > > Info on books, web-sites or anything would help a lot. > > Oh, yeah, she says she prefers the loom, but can free-hand stitch if > necessary. > > Any help would really be appreciated. This is the first I've been able to > get her in to any mountain man activity. > > Thanks a lot. > > Mac > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Vegetarian - ancient word meaning lousy hunter > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:06:01 -0800 From: "De Santis, Nick" Subject: MtMan-List: 2nd amendment? To the list and anyone who will read this: Not often do I really give a damn about politics and the general nuisance of the process. However, this is really wrong. Please read the link below. If, deep down, you care about your rights as a free man or women, this should scare you at the least. For me, it is one step to far. I am just angry that folks who cannot be content to just mind there own space are backing me into a corner. I am no revolutionary, but that does not mean we cannot push back. I intend to start shoving. Yours, Nick De Santis ( Travler) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,72371,00.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:36:10 -0700 From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Apostle belts/pouch horns > > Two Feathers > > > [1] Did trappers ever carry anything resembling an "Apostle belt" that > > contained set charges and > > > > [2] To what extent, if any, were pounch horns used. I meantioned a discription by Miller of the typical equipment of a trapper: On starting for a hunt the trapper fits himself out with full equipment. In additions to his animals he procures 5 or 6 traps ( ussually carried in a trap sack), ammunition, a few pounds of tabacco, a supply of mocasins, a wallet called a "possibles sack", gun, bowie knife, and sometimes a tomahawk. Over his left shoulder and under his right arm hang his buffalo powder horn, a bullet pouch in which he carries balls, flint, and steel, with other knickknacks. He continues to discribe a belt to carry his sheath for the knife and a pipe holder, a gage d'amour. The meantion of knicknacks leaves open the possiblity of loading blocks and precharges but I think that is a pretty big assumption. I really believe the trapper concerned himself with sagacity and the ability to avoid trouble more than he did with intense quick personal firepower. Wynn Ormond - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 14:21:10 -0700 From: Allen Chronister Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Apostle belts/pouch horns I've gotten this same message bout 5 times now and its somehow clogging up my email reception. What's up? Allen chronister Wynn & Gretchen Ormond wrote: > > > Two Feathers > > > > > [1] Did trappers ever carry anything resembling an "Apostle belt" that > > > contained set charges and > > > > > > [2] To what extent, if any, were pounch horns used. > > I meantioned a discription by Miller of the typical equipment of a trapper: > > On starting for a hunt the trapper fits himself out with full > equipment. In additions to his animals he procures 5 or 6 traps ( ussually > carried in a trap sack), ammunition, a few pounds of tabacco, a supply of > mocasins, a wallet called a "possibles sack", gun, bowie knife, and > sometimes a tomahawk. Over his left shoulder and under his right arm hang > his buffalo powder horn, a bullet pouch in which he carries balls, flint, > and steel, with other knickknacks. > > He continues to discribe a belt to carry his sheath for the knife and a pipe > holder, a gage d'amour. > > The meantion of knicknacks leaves open the possiblity of loading blocks and > precharges but I think that is a pretty big assumption. I really believe > the trapper concerned himself with sagacity and the ability to avoid trouble > more than he did with intense quick personal firepower. > > Wynn Ormond > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 16:39:00 -0500 From: Linda Holley Subject: MtMan-List: have you seen this site?? http://www.cottoneauctions.com/TomWnuck/wnuck-accoutrements&accessories.htm Some of you might like to see this auction. Linda Holley - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 16:45:14 -0500 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Apostle belts/pouch horns - --------------050501000402020602070506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know, but it has happened to me too. Linda Holley Allen Chronister wrote: >I've gotten this same message bout 5 times now and its somehow clogging up my >email reception. What's up? >Allen chronister > >Wynn & Gretchen Ormond wrote: > > > >>>>Two Feathers >>>> >>>> >>>>[1] Did trappers ever carry anything resembling an "Apostle belt" that >>>>contained set charges and >>>> >>>>[2] To what extent, if any, were pounch horns used. >>>> >>>> >>I meantioned a discription by Miller of the typical equipment of a trapper: >> >> On starting for a hunt the trapper fits himself out with full >>equipment. In additions to his animals he procures 5 or 6 traps ( ussually >>carried in a trap sack), ammunition, a few pounds of tabacco, a supply of >>mocasins, a wallet called a "possibles sack", gun, bowie knife, and >>sometimes a tomahawk. Over his left shoulder and under his right arm hang >>his buffalo powder horn, a bullet pouch in which he carries balls, flint, >>and steel, with other knickknacks. >> >>He continues to discribe a belt to carry his sheath for the knife and a pipe >>holder, a gage d'amour. >> >>The meantion of knicknacks leaves open the possiblity of loading blocks and >>precharges but I think that is a pretty big assumption. I really believe >>the trapper concerned himself with sagacity and the ability to avoid trouble >>more than he did with intense quick personal firepower. >> >>Wynn Ormond >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > - --------------050501000402020602070506 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know, but it has happened to me too.

Linda Holley

Allen Chronister wrote:
I've gotten this same message bout 5 times now and its somehow clogging up my
email reception.  What's up?
Allen chronister

Wynn & Gretchen Ormond wrote:

  
Two Feathers
        
[1] Did trappers ever carry anything resembling an "Apostle belt" that
contained set charges and

[2] To what extent, if any, were pounch horns used.
        
I meantioned a discription by Miller of the typical equipment of a trapper:

        On starting for a hunt the trapper fits himself out with full
equipment.  In additions to his animals he procures 5 or 6 traps ( ussually
carried in a trap sack), ammunition, a few pounds of tabacco, a supply of
mocasins, a wallet called a "possibles sack", gun, bowie knife, and
sometimes a tomahawk.   Over his left shoulder and under his right arm hang
his buffalo powder horn, a bullet pouch in which he carries balls, flint,
and steel, with other knickknacks.

He continues to discribe a belt to carry his sheath for the knife and a pipe
holder, a gage d'amour.

The meantion of knicknacks leaves open the possiblity of loading blocks and
precharges but I think that is a pretty big assumption.  I really believe
the trapper concerned himself with sagacity and the ability to avoid trouble
more than he did with intense quick personal firepower.

Wynn Ormond

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- --------------050501000402020602070506-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:47:17 -0700 (MST) From: Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Apostle belts/pouch horns > Hey Mike, What kind of rifle was it? A flinter or what? Real curious about it. Beaverboy > concerning this issue of whether loading blocks were used in the fur > trade days. I refer you to the Oct issue of American Hunter Magazine, > 1975. Article entitled: "A Real Hunters Rifle." This particular rifle > with hunting pouch and powder horn and all accoutrements is owned by a > collector in Virginia. Attached to the strap of the bag in the > accompanying photo is an original loading block that is obviously very > old. It is a single piece of hardwood with 4 bullet sized holes bored > into it in a single line. In the holes are patched round balls. Old > patches and old oxidized lead balls. The pouch and horn, rifle and > accoutrements all date from before 1842. The hunter died of old age in > 1842. Excellent article with nice color photos of the powder horn with > a repair on it, and all of the contents of the hunting pouch along > with the rifle. The family kept the gun until the 1970s when it was > sold to the collector who allowed it to be photographed for the > magazine. There is no reason to doubt the authenticity of the articles > because the whole article was put together before people sat around and > nit picked such subjects. At least after close axamination of the > photos I find them to be genuine in my humble opinion. Mike B > Wynn Ormond wrote: >> Thanks for your answer! I suspected as much even though having no set >> charges readly available seems counter intuitive given that they seem >> to have had loading blocks. BTW, an pouch horn is just similar to a >> powder horn but is flat and placed inside the huniting bag >> instead worn outside. >> >> Two Feathers > > I will stand by my answer then that most of the art work shows a > trapper with a horn on the outside of the pouch. > > I would like to see evidence of loading blocks. Other than carrying a > few rounds in their mouth I have not seen anything of that like either. > > Wynn Ormond > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #1118 ******************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.