From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1172 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, March 25 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1172 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: char cloth -       MtMan-List: target loads -       MtMan-List: char cloth? -       MtMan-List: char cloth? -       Re: MtMan-List: char cloth -       MtMan-List: char cloth? -       Re: MtMan-List: char cloth? -       Re: MtMan-List: char cloth? -       Re: MtMan-List: char cloth -       Re: MtMan-List: char cloth -       MtMan-List: off topic for Larry Pendleton -       Re: MtMan-List: char cloth -       Re: MtMan-List: off topic for Larry Pendleton -       Re: MtMan-List: char cloth -       MtMan-List: Upcoming show and tell in NYC, Queens County area -       Re: MtMan-List: loads ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 12:01:55 -0600 From: "James MacKannai" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth >From: "roger lahti" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth >Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 09:18:34 -0800 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James MacKannai" >To: >Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 7:13 AM >Subject: MtMan-List: char cloth > > > > Dear List > > > > Why are some of you so sure the mountain men did not use char cloth. > >Jim, > >Why are you so sure they did? > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > >---------------------- You must have missed my last post. I'm not sure. Never said I was. Jim end >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 12:21:00 -0600 From: "John McKee" Subject: MtMan-List: target loads This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C2F1FF.D4C2B5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Magpie, I have a Corrain [s] .54 swamped barrel, 66 twist in a Lancaster gun = made by Brother RoadKill many moons ago. 70 grains of 2f = (elephant....which I'm told is a finer grained powder } and the gun = shoots a hell of a lot better than do!! John =20 =20 =20 The Stitchin' Scotsman 100% Handsewn Elkhide garments and moccasins Manu Forti www.stitchinscotsman.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: SWcushing@aol.com=20 To: ammlist@lists.xmission.com=20 Cc: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 1:02 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: Tough crowd/target loads... In a message dated 3/23/2003 9:38:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, = waltharper@starband.net writes: Magpie,=20 for target I shoot 60 fff, for hunting I go all the way to 70 fff in = my 54 with a good tight patch Thanks Walt, and all, for the imput. I can shoot a 2-3" group with 120gr 3F (I lied about the 140grs), at = 100 yards off the bench, but not nearly as tight with 80grs 3F. I was = trying to save a bit of powder with the question, but think I'll back = the load to 60gr 3f and work up from there for a "target" load at the = shoots. The barrel is a 42", swamped Getz, with a 1 in 66" twist, and has less = than 50 balls run down it, so still spankin new. I've got a chronograph, = so will see just how fast they go downrange with the light loads.... Magpie=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C2F1FF.D4C2B5C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
  Magpie,
    I have a Corrain [s] .54 swamped = barrel,=20 66 twist in a Lancaster gun made by Brother RoadKill many moons = ago. 70=20 grains of 2f (elephant....which I'm told is a finer grained powder = } and=20 the gun shoots a hell of a lot better than do!! John
   
   
   
The Stitchin' Scotsman
100% Handsewn Elkhide garments
and=20 moccasins
Manu Forti
www.stitchinscotsman.com
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 SWcushing@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 = 1:02=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: = AMM-List: Tough=20 crowd/target loads...

In a message dated 3/23/2003 9:38:08 AM Pacific = Standard=20 Time, waltharper@starband.net=20 writes:

Magpie,
for target I shoot 60 fff, for hunting I go = all the=20 way to 70 fff in my 54 with a good tight = patch


Thanks=20 Walt, and all, for the imput.

I can shoot a 2-3" group with = 120gr 3F (I=20 lied about the 140grs), at 100 yards off the bench, but not nearly as = tight=20 with 80grs 3F. I was trying to save a bit of powder with the question, = but=20 think I'll back the load to 60gr 3f and work up from there for a = "target" load=20 at the shoots.

The barrel is a 42", swamped Getz, with a 1 in = 66"=20 twist, and has less than 50 balls run down it, so still spankin new. = I've got=20 a chronograph, so will see just how fast they go downrange with the = light=20 loads....

Magpie =

- ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C2F1FF.D4C2B5C0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 14:07:19 -0600 From: "James MacKannai" Subject: MtMan-List: char cloth? O.K. Here are a few notes I made years ago. Firearms, Traps, & Tools of the Mountain Men, p. 353 "a tinderbox with flint and LINEN TOW..." Chamberlain Memorial Museum in Michigan "...an all steel tinderbox with tinder and flint.... Green Bay Wis. "Fibers of UNSPUN FLAX and SCRAPINGS from LINEN CLOTH..." (Nothing so far about woven fabric. Perhaps the tow used to clean rifles served a double purpose. I'll be charring wads of scraped fabric and tow to see how it works. I bet it works very well.) RUXTON wrote "..pouches always contain flint and steel, and sundry pieces of punk..." [This was years after fabric availability was no longer a problem] OSBORNE RUSSELL. "...built a large fire with fragments of sugar maple which I found scattered..."p118 Journal Of A Trapper [note: Firearms, Traps, & Tools etc. mentions punk made of maple, I can't find his source] LEWIS GARRARD WAH TO YAH, pub 1850 p. 17 "bois de vache....It burns well and freely, catching the steel sparks like tinder; but, being light is soon fanned into a hot coal." [Anyone try this yet?] So,I did make notes and then forgot all about them. Still, no mention of fabric and the tow was in collections from the settlements. Punk is ,so far, the only documentable char in the Rocky Mountains during the fur trade. I tend to believe that tow was used in the mountains if it was used in the settlements but so far I can't pull up notes saying so. Absolutely no evidence that woven fabric was EVER used; yet. Question. Has anyone recorded the use of tow for cleaning rifles in the Rocky Mountains; any references? How about tow in trade lists. It seems linen fabric was "unwoven" or scraped when used. I will retire my char CLOTH till I see more evidence to support fabric. Thanks for the discussion. If you find anything more let me know. Say, this would make a good article for Muzzleloader mag wouldn't it? "I told my mam and Pap I was goin' to the Rocky Mountains to TRAP, an be a Mountain Man. They acted like they was gut shot. . ." Regards Jim _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 14:34:25 -0600 From: "James MacKannai" Subject: MtMan-List: char cloth? It seems linen fabric was "unwoven" or scraped when used. I will retire my char CLOTH till I see more evidence to support fabric. _______________________ I wonder now if scraped linen needs to be charred to work. Buffalo crap apparently didn't according to Garrard. Thanks for the inspiration Capt. and Beaverboy. Jim _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 12:52:52 -0800 From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth Jim, Yes, I sent that off before reading down. I see we've got you thinking twice about your arguments for char cloth. Good enough. YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ----- Original Message ----- From: "James MacKannai" To: Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 10:01 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth > > > > > > > > >From: "roger lahti" > >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth > >Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 09:18:34 -0800 > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "James MacKannai" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 7:13 AM > >Subject: MtMan-List: char cloth > > > > > > > Dear List > > > > > > Why are some of you so sure the mountain men did not use char cloth. > > > >Jim, > > > >Why are you so sure they did? > > > >YMOS > >Capt. Lahti' > > > >---------------------- > > You must have missed my last post. I'm not sure. Never said I was. > > Jim > end > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:19:38 -0600 From: "James MacKannai" Subject: MtMan-List: char cloth? One more note on firemaking. I found an old article by Mike Van Deventer that lists ". . . Three brass oval shaped tinder boxes, their lids engraved with the figure of a sword swinging Russian Cossack on horseback. The tinder boxes contained a flint, a PIECE OF LINEN and the original fire steel." apparently linen was being traded to Indians with their strikers (by Russians) but , like you've noted, it wouldn't last long. These were supposed to be Russian fur trade items found cached in a sealed kettle in northwest California late in the last century. It would be nice to know if the linen was woven but doesn't matter that much because I ain't wearin no Russian trade goods around. At least linen seems to be a consistant material in firemaking by the non-Rocky Mountain world. By the way, Osborne Russell wrote of Indians still making fires with sticks rubbed together but it seems to have been "notable". Anyway, there it is till I dig deeper. I won't bother anyone with more unless they ask to be updated. Regards, Jim _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 14:45:19 -0700 (MST) From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth? >We messed around with starting fires with hand drills last summer. Just the one long drill and the open palm method. We were using Yucca stems for both the drill and the fireboard. It works great but you can work up a sweat doing it. We put our pile of glowing ash into a nest of finely shreaded cottonwood. One time I had a fire going in less than five minutes, another time it took me and another friend almost an hour. But whats time to a pig? bb > > > > > > > One more note on firemaking. I found an old article by Mike Van Deventer > that lists ". . . Three brass oval shaped tinder boxes, their lids > engraved with the figure of a sword swinging Russian Cossack on > horseback. The tinder boxes contained a flint, a PIECE OF LINEN and the > original fire steel." apparently linen was being traded to Indians with > their strikers (by Russians) but , like you've noted, it wouldn't last > long. > > These were supposed to be Russian fur trade items found cached in a > sealed kettle in northwest California late in the last century. It > would be nice to know if the linen was woven but doesn't matter that > much because I ain't wearin no Russian trade goods around. At least > linen seems to be a consistant material in firemaking by the non-Rocky > Mountain world. By the way, Osborne Russell wrote of Indians still > making fires with sticks rubbed together but it seems to have been > "notable". > > Anyway, there it is till I dig deeper. I won't bother anyone with more > unless they ask to be updated. > > Regards, > > Jim > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:35:06 -0800 From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth? Your welcome Jim. Capt. L - ----- Original Message ----- From: "James MacKannai" To: Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 12:34 PM Subject: MtMan-List: char cloth? > > It seems linen fabric was "unwoven" or scraped when used. I will retire my > char CLOTH till I see more evidence to support fabric. > > _______________________ > > I wonder now if scraped linen needs to be charred to work. Buffalo crap > apparently didn't according to Garrard. > > Thanks for the inspiration Capt. and Beaverboy. > > Jim > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 19:53:40 -0600 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth Jim, Someone else said you're trying to prove a negative, and that is exactly right. Building a fire was as natural and common place for them as going to the fridge and getting a glass of ice tea is for us. Char cloth was probably used when it was prudent to do so, but since that was the final use of a scrap of cloth, I don't think it was used that much. Here are a couple of things to throw into the pot. 1. Cloth was very expensive back then. Per yard cost was comparable to what it costs today. Keep in mind what else could be bought with that same amount of funds back then. Also, as today, cloth was apparently sold by the running yard and all the records I have seen show that cloth was typically woven in 3 foot widths which actually makes it more expensive than today. My point is, that cloth would be used for every thing possible before it was used for Char. And, why would you buy cloth for making Char when you could pick stuff up off the ground to char ? 2. There just wasn't much cloth taken to the mountains for trade until the late 1820's and1830's. Matter of fact none at all was taken to the first Rendezvous in 1825. Now back to proving a negative. Try documenting, positively how often and what method they used to clean their guns. It's almost impossible ! You can pick up bits and peices, but not all in one place. We know that corkscrew tow worms were a common trade item, but we also know that 'washeyes' were also used. Documenting the common things in history is a real challenge. Happy Hunting ! Pendleton - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:49:59 -0600 From: "James MacKannai" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth >From: "larry pendleton" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth >Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 19:53:40 -0600 > We know that >corkscrew tow worms were a common trade item, but we also know that >'washeyes' were also used. Documenting the common things in history is a >real challenge. Happy Hunting ! > >Pendleton > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Pendleton, Can you tell me more about "washeyes"? Where, when, used by whom? Jim _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:07:25 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: off topic for Larry Pendleton Ho the list:......if you ain't Larry Pendleton ignore this post. Better yet, can anybody translate the cyperspeak message below? Larry I am still having trouble getting posts to be accepted by your email address. See below for what I get back. Please send me a post at your convenience. Lanney Failed to deliver to 'yrrw@airmail.net' SMTP module(domain airmail.net) reports: host mx5.airmail.net says: 550 Blocked - see http://www.airscreen.net/rbl?209.225.8.14 > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 24 Mar 2003 19:58:08 -0800 From: "Curtis Krouse" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth bb, I can understand that it might be hard to believe, but you are most likely thinking of the later "golden" days of the fur trade. When the fur trade first started out, there were very few white people in the west. Some of the tribes they encountered were friendly, most of them weren't. Most of the tribes that were friendly, would turn around and rob them a day after they went their way. There are many instances of the first few trade expeditions ending in a few traders making it out of the mountains alive with nothing more than the clothes they had on. The reason AMERICAN fur companies were subsidized is because the US had a serious ownership interest in the Columbia country. They knew that if they didn't equip the American fur companies with goods and cover their losses they might not want to pursue profit in beaver anymore. The MAIN fur trade shift into the rocky mountains didn't occur until into the mid to late 1820's. This shift afforded the traders with more security. Before that the main thrust of the fur trade was in the upper Missouri. It's obvious that Astor made a lot of money...millions....and he made that from 1821 to 1834 when he sold the American Fur Company. However, there were plenty of instances where the traders came out in the negative. But, in a time when a vast majority of the traders were robbed and/or killed. Here is an example of the efforts of trappers within the agency of L. Taliaferro at St. Peters. The capital expense to send out the 8 that returned was $30,862.33. That's right only 8 returned with: Buffalo robes, bear skins, muskrats skins, deer skins, beaver skins, marten skins, mink skins, fisher skins, racoon skins, otter skins, lynx skins, fox skins, swan skins. The return on the 30 grand for those 8 was $38,794.00. It would appear that they made money. But, if you estimate the 7 who didn't return, their expenses had to put that figure into a negative. Unfortunately, my research only includes references to partial reports that lead one to have to speculate. In the year '31, the same agency's capital expense was $42,659.34 and the return was $38,794.00. Another agency, Rock Island's expenses were $40,500 in '31 and their return was $27,000. I suppose they had a tougher time saving their necks. There are numerous entries of agencies who invested between 15 and 30 grand and had no return reported. Again in 1831, Henry Schoolcraft reported to the gov't. $33,675 in capital expenses, and $33,675 in returns....he broke even. Which is a loss as far as I'm concerned. I am finding reference after reference of losses...and some gains. But, the underlying reason for the US government to subsidize and encourage fur trading was to maintain a presence in the northwest as they wanted to secure that territory for the United States and not let Britain have it. With respect to the danger of collecting char wood. I'm finding that in the early days of the fur trade, it was much more dangerous to wander from camp then the later years. Underestimating that danger could lead to trouble. I'm not saying that the average trader was afraid of his shadow. Quite the opposite. In a country where they were outnumbered in the thousands, these brave souls fought and died for the opportunity. But, don't play down the danger. It was very dangerous. Regards, Blood On Mon, 2003-03-24 at 09:36, beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > During the early years of trade with the native indians, there were > actually no profits > > made because after trade was performed, most often the traders were > > raided by the same or different tribes and robbed of most of their > > goods. > > I find it hard to believe this comment.I don't think you can get trade > ships to travel to Europe and the far east on subsidies. John Jacob > Astor did not become America's first millionare by getting government > subsidies. Manuel Lisa didn't get rich to retire in St. Louis by > checking his mail box to get a check. He was as far north and west as > Montana trapping AND trading for beaver hides and they took several > thousands pelts from the Three Forks area alone in one season. > It has always been much more lucrative to purchase pelts than it is to > trap them, but not always. Which is why a lot of men chose to trade not > trap. Illegal? It was illegal to trade whiskey to the indians. Did it > happen? Yes. > As for the danger of collecting punky wood. I don't think you have to > wander far from camp to collect all you need for many fires. If a man > is so afraid of his shadow as to not go a hundred yards out of camp he > certainly would not have left Missouri to come deep into indian > territory. > bb > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 24 Mar 2003 20:09:48 -0800 From: "Curtis Krouse" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic for Larry Pendleton Lanney, Yep...that message is from Larry's server. He has you on a blocked list so his server is not accepting email from your address. The 550 Blocked error is just that...the server has blocked your email message to Larry's address. Larry might not even know about it. But, he will have to be the one to correct it. Regards, Blood On Mon, 2003-03-24 at 19:07, Lanney Ratcliff wrote: > Ho the list:......if you ain't Larry Pendleton ignore this post. Better > yet, can anybody translate the cyperspeak message below? > > > Larry > I am still having trouble getting posts to be accepted by your email > address. See below for what I get back. Please send me a post at your > convenience. > Lanney > > > Failed to deliver to 'yrrw@airmail.net' > SMTP module(domain airmail.net) reports: > host mx5.airmail.net says: > 550 Blocked - see http://www.airscreen.net/rbl?209.225.8.14 > > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:45:43 -0800 From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: char cloth Blood, I found plenty of punky birch wood less than 25' from my camp at Brigade up on that island behind Boundary Dam. Gary Lentz finds all he needs to start a fire with nothing but his knife within 200 yards of his residence at L/C St. Park near Waitsburg (on the L/C trail). Respectfully I submit that you are placing too much emphases on the danger of wandering around looking for ingredients when wandering around is how you get to your next camp! Capt. Lahti - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 01:04:03 EST From: JSeminerio@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Upcoming show and tell in NYC, Queens County area - --part1_187.174c8f79.2bb14b53_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hail the list Please excuse the cross posting Here is an announcement from a local group here in Queens County, NYC doing=20= a=20 show and tell. =A0There is a stipend involved for giving your services. =A0P= lease=20 contact Pete Lecese at peter_leccese@nyforestpark.org. =A0see the web site a= t=20 nyforestpark.org. Hope to see you there. Feel free to pass this along. A Passage Through Time - Colonial Day Presentation Peter Leccese On Saturday, June 28, 2003, the Forest Park Rangers Inc. in cooperation with= =20 the Forest Park Administrator and the City of NY Parks &Recreation will be=20 hosting a history and craft day at the Seuffert Bandshell. The event will=20 begin at 10:30 am and run until 5:00 pm. There will be numerous craft=20 demonstrations with hands on participation, as well as historic re-enactors=20 representing Native American and Colonial impressions. There will also be on= =20 display Native American Artifacts and Colonial and Native American early=20 weapons. There will be performances throughout the event including Native=20 American and Colonial singers and dancers. We have signed the musical group No Matter What to perform at the event. Thi= s=20 group has voluntarily performed at many past park events. They give us their= =20 time and talent to help the children of our communities. As of this posting we currently have five Native American Craftsmen, and the= =20 Forest Park Historical Chorus under the direction of Mary McCabe Wagner, as=20 well as the Nimham Mountain Singers. We are still looking for colonial craft= =20 and first person interpreters. Any applicants please contact Peter Leccese a= t=20 718-296-2142 or email at peter_leccese@nyforestpark.org. The program is funded by the Department of Youth and Community Development=20 City of NY, and the Forest Park Rangers, Inc. - --part1_187.174c8f79.2bb14b53_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hail the list
Please excuse the cross posting
Here is an announcement from a local group here in Queens County, NYC do= ing a show and tell. =A0There is a stipend involved for giving your services= . =A0Please contact Pete Lecese at peter_leccese@nyforestpark.org. =A0see th= e web site at nyforestpark.org. Hope to see you there.  Feel free to pa= ss this along.


A Passage Through Time - Colonial Day Presentation


Peter Leccese

On Saturday, June 28, 2003, the Forest Park Rangers Inc.= in cooperation with the Forest Park Administrator and the City of NY Parks=20= &Recreation will be hosting a history and craft day at the Seuffert Band= shell. The event will begin at 10:30 am and run until 5:00 pm. There will be= numerous craft demonstrations with hands on participation, as well as histo= ric re-enactors representing Native American and Colonial impressions. There= will also be on display Native American Artifacts and Colonial and Native A= merican early weapons. There will be performances throughout the event inclu= ding Native American and Colonial singers and dancers.
We have signed the musical group No Matter What to perform at the= event. This group has voluntarily performed at many past park events. They=20= give us their time and talent to help the children of our communities.
As of this posting we currently have five Native American Craftsmen, and= the Forest Park Historical Chorus under the direction of Mary McCabe Wagner= , as well as the Nimham Mountain Singers. We are still looking for co= lonial craft and first person interpreters. Any applicants please contact Pe= ter Leccese at 718-296-2142 or email at peter_leccese@nyforestpark.org.
The program is funded by the Department of Youth and Community Developme= nt City of NY, and the Forest Park Rangers, Inc.



- --part1_187.174c8f79.2bb14b53_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 07:04:28 EST From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: loads - --part1_1ee.515b37f.2bb19fcc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/24/2003 6:38:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, Rifleman1776@centurytel.net writes: > Please explain, what kind of "places"? Who is setting what kind of > limits for other people? Strange Several of the local clubs in SW Utah, S. Nevada, NW Arizona. Maybe it's just a local thing, but it's where I play. Even ran into it at one or two Pacific Nationals when NMLRA was still sponsoring western events. Not so strange when you're dealing with a lot of people who you're not familiar with. There's usually a lot of complaining & fudging on the charges. Have even ran into being given 120 gr of powder to shoot 3 targets of various ranges with no measure -- gotta "guestimate" 1/3 of that 120 gr for each of the 3 shots -- well it was recommended 1/3 for the first shot then 1/2 of what's left for the second shot then what's left for the last shot. Makes ya think a bit. First target was about 25 yds, second was about 50, & third target was 100+. NM - --part1_1ee.515b37f.2bb19fcc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/24/2003 6:38:43 AM Pacific Standa= rd Time, Rifleman1776@centurytel.net writes:


Please explain, what kind of "= places"?  Who is setting what kind of
limits for other people? Strange


Several of the local clubs in SW Utah, S. Nevada, NW Arizona.  Maybe it= 's just a local thing, but it's where I play.  Even ran into it at one=20= or two Pacific Nationals when NMLRA was still sponsoring western events.&nbs= p; Not so strange when you're dealing with a lot of people who you're not fa= miliar with.  There's usually a lot of complaining & fudging on the= charges.  Have even ran into being given 120 gr of powder to shoot 3 t= argets of various ranges with no measure -- gotta "guestimate" 1/3 of that 1= 20 gr for each of the 3 shots -- well it was recommended 1/3 for the first s= hot then 1/2 of what's left for the second shot then what's left for the las= t shot.  Makes ya think a bit.  First target was about 25 yds, sec= ond was about 50, & third target was 100+.

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