From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1232 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Saturday, September 6 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1232 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags -       Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags -       Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags -       Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags -       MtMan-List: Chiggers! -       Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags -       RE: MtMan-List: Chiggers! -       Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! -       Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags -       Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags -       Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! -       Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! -       Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! -       Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags -       Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! -       Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags -       Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags -       Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags -       Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! -       Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! -       MtMan-List: was Saddle Bags now Tapaderos ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:04:19 -0600 From: Todd Glover Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags Crazy, You pose a good question. Again, this is one of those items which doesn't seem to garner much mention. My thinking on this and similar items which lack specific documentation is to look at the time period immediately preceeding the period you are researching. Would saddle bags have changed much from the late 1700's? Perhaps. Maybe not much. What did Lewis and Clark use? Revolutionary War era sallebags may be a mite early, how about War of 1812 style bags? I'll bet these wouldn't be far off from ones a trapper leaving ole St Lou mighta bought. Todd - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 23:49:03 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags - --part1_ea.3db2672c.2c8ab32f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Todd Ya brought up some good Ideas can you or any one else point me to some where I could get some info Military saddle bags? I have a catalog from the American Military Saddle Company out of California. The earliest they offer saddle bags for is 1858 before that date they only offer pommel Holsters and shoe pouch and Valises. This makes me wonder if they used saddle bags before this. Granted a catalog ain't much of a resource to document anything. So if someone could point me in the right direction I'd much appreciate it. Crazy Cyot - --part1_ea.3db2672c.2c8ab32f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Todd
Ya brought up some good Ideas can you or any one else point me to some w= here I could get some info Military saddle bags? I have a catalog from the A= merican Military Saddle Company out of California. The earliest they offer s= addle bags for is 1858 before that date they only offer pommel Holsters and=20= shoe pouch and Valises. This makes me wonder if they used saddle bags before= this. Granted a catalog ain't much of a resource to document anything. So i= f someone could point me in the right direction I'd much appreciate it.
Crazy Cyot - --part1_ea.3db2672c.2c8ab32f_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:11:49 -0700 From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags - ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Crazy, There is some saddle bags in Nuemans Encyclopedia of the Rev War. Proly not much different through the ages. Randy - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Sent: 9/5/03 8:49:03 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags Todd Ya brought up some good Ideas can you or any one else point me to some where I could get some info Military saddle bags? I have a catalog from the American Military Saddle Company out of California. The earliest they offer saddle bags for is 1858 before that date they only offer pommel Holsters and shoe pouch and Valises. This makes me wonder if they used saddle bags before this. Granted a catalog ain't much of a resource to document anything. So if someone could point me in the right direction I'd much appreciate it. Crazy Cyot - ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Crazy,  There is some saddle bags in Nuemans Encyclopedia of the Rev War.   Proly not much different through the ages.   Randy
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Sent: 9/5/03 8:49:03 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags

Todd
Ya brought up some good Ideas can you or any one else point me to some where I could get some info Military saddle bags? I have a catalog from the American Military Saddle Company out of California. The earliest they offer saddle bags for is 1858 before that date they only offer pommel Holsters and shoe pouch and Valises. This makes me wonder if they used saddle bags before this. Granted a catalog ain't much of a resource to document anything. So if someone could point me in the right direction I'd much appreciate it.
Crazy Cyot
- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 09:33:02 EDT From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags - --part1_46.3d94186f.2c8b3c0e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you might want to try the book by Randy Steffen titled "United States MIlitary Saddles,1812-1943" Frank - --part1_46.3d94186f.2c8b3c0e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable you might want to try the book by Randy Steffen titled= "United States MIlitary Saddles,1812-1943"

Frank - --part1_46.3d94186f.2c8b3c0e_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 10:42:24 -0600 From: Allen Hall Subject: MtMan-List: Chiggers! Hello the Camp, I'm interested in hearing how you that live in chigger country deal with the bites of them nasty little critters. Thanks, Allen, in Fort Hall country - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:11:47 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags - --part1_6f.3c4c5778.2c8b6f53_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Randy and Frank I'll keep my eye open for these books. What has got me going on the Saddle Bags they are like shovels they do not show up in the innovatory list very often and when they do there is only one or two listed. I have not been able to find any shown in any of Millers pictures. They do show up from time to time in Journals of the time period so they were used but how often and what type were they. Were they made in the field or something that was a personal item that was brought out with them that was not replaced very often? I'm trying to see if we can get some talk going on the subject cause saddle bags seem to be one of the Items that is used widely today but that is not clear on what type and how often they were used by the Mountaineers of old or where they got them from. I'm just trying to get the list going on something that has got me wondering. Crazy Cyot - --part1_6f.3c4c5778.2c8b6f53_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Randy and Frank
I'll keep my eye open for these books.
What has got me going on the Saddle Bags they are like shovels they do n= ot show up in the innovatory list very often and when they do there is only=20= one or two listed. I have not been able to find any shown in any of Millers=20= pictures. They do show up from time to time in Journals of the time period s= o they were used but how often and what type were they. Were they made in th= e field or something that was a personal item that was brought out with them= that was not replaced very often?
I'm trying to see if we can get some talk going on the subject cause sad= dle bags seem to be one of the Items that is used widely today but that is n= ot clear on what type and how often they were used by the Mountaineers of ol= d or where they got them from.
I'm just trying to get the list going on something that has got me wonde= ring.
Crazy Cyot - --part1_6f.3c4c5778.2c8b6f53_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:22:16 -0700 From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Chiggers! Hi Allen, If you are suffering from chigger bites, I can relate. I got a good dose of them at the Missouri Eastern ('98). I figured they'd just go away after awhile.... well, that was my mistake. I ended up with an infection that affected my entire skin (which is considered an organ). This infection led to dermatitis, and then exyma (sp?)(which still affects me). I can't tell you what to do, but I can recommend that you don't let it go too far if it's still bothering you. See a dermatologist, if neccessary. I think that those who grow up with them gain some tolerance for those nasty critters, those who don't - react seriously. I heard all kinds of wive's tales, home cures, etc... I wish I'd have gone to a Dr. sooner than I did. Don't let it go too long, if the bites aren't improving. My humble opinion based on miserable experience. Yfab, Randy > [Original Message] > From: Allen Hall > Hello the Camp, > > I'm interested in hearing how you that live in chigger country deal with the > bites of them nasty little critters. > > Thanks, > > Allen, in Fort Hall country > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 12:30:59 -0500 From: "GOOD OLD JOE" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! Powdered sulphur sprinkled on sox and pants legs and blankets works pretty good. Joe Brott (Old Joe), Plattsmouth, Nebraska - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:34:23 EDT From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags - --part1_7b.1884c479.2c8b749f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Continental Light Dragoon (late 1770s - early 1780s) used a "cowboy" type saddle bag. It is pictured in "The Horse Soldier - 1776-1943" Vol. I, pages 10 & 14. (Randy Steffen, University of Oklahoma Press, Norman. 1977.) The bag has two straps that connect the two pouches. One picture shows the pouch with three straps with buckles. The other shows only two straps with buckles. The pouches look to be rather small in comparison to what you might typically think of as "Cowboy" saddle bags. Jim Hardee P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 - --part1_7b.1884c479.2c8b749f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Continental Light Dragoon (late 1770s - early 1780= s) used a "cowboy" type saddle bag. It is pictured in "The Horse Soldier - 1= 776-1943" Vol. I, pages 10 & 14. (Randy Steffen, University of Oklahoma=20= Press, Norman. 1977.)  The bag has two straps that connect the two pouc= hes. One picture shows the pouch with three straps with buckles. The other s= hows only two straps with buckles. The pouches look to be rather small in co= mparison to what you might typically think of as "Cowboy" saddle bags.

Jim Hardee
P.O. Box 1228
Quincy, CA  95971 - --part1_7b.1884c479.2c8b749f_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 12:23:52 -0600 From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags - --------------030003000907090807070807 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cyot An example that is similar only in that they went across the saddle like saddlebage, is horse pistols. They were arranged so one was on each side of the horse. There are even accounts of people hunting buffalo with these arrangements...only some of them shot their horse out from under themselves. Sparks GazeingCyot@cs.com wrote: > Thanks Randy and Frank > I'll keep my eye open for these books. > What has got me going on the Saddle Bags they are like shovels they do > not show up in the innovatory list very often and when they do there > is only one or two listed. I have not been able to find any shown in > any of Millers pictures. They do show up from time to time in Journals > of the time period so they were used but how often and what type were > they. Were they made in the field or something that was a personal > item that was brought out with them that was not replaced very often? > I'm trying to see if we can get some talk going on the subject cause > saddle bags seem to be one of the Items that is used widely today but > that is not clear on what type and how often they were used by the > Mountaineers of old or where they got them from. > I'm just trying to get the list going on something that has got me > wondering. > Crazy Cyot - --------------030003000907090807070807 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cyot
An example that is similar only in that they went across the saddle like saddlebage, is horse pistols.  
They were arranged so one was on each side of the horse.  There are even accounts of people hunting buffalo with these arrangements...only some of them shot their horse out from under themselves.
Sparks

GazeingCyot@cs.com wrote:
Thanks Randy and Frank
I'll keep my eye open for these books.
What has got me going on the Saddle Bags they are like shovels they do not show up in the innovatory list very often and when they do there is only one or two listed. I have not been able to find any shown in any of Millers pictures. They do show up from time to time in Journals of the time period so they were used but how often and what type were they. Were they made in the field or something that was a personal item that was brought out with them that was not replaced very often?
I'm trying to see if we can get some talk going on the subject cause saddle bags seem to be one of the Items that is used widely today but that is not clear on what type and how often they were used by the Mountaineers of old or where they got them from.
I'm just trying to get the list going on something that has got me wondering.
Crazy Cyot

- --------------030003000907090807070807-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:27:58 -0400 From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! Alan. Clear fingernail polish on the bite will take care of it, as will a good , heavy coat of calamine, or benadril. Dermarest foam is real good.... The wee bastards leave a tube in your skin and a protien that makes it itch, and it will itch until you absorb it. In some cases like Randy's, you could get an infection or allergic reaction.. Go to the Doc if they don't go away, usually a week 10 days after exposure.. I am ate up, but they are going away. The poison Oak was more bothersome./ Also, your clothes you wore should be washed HOT and the leather & wool blankets put in the freezer for a few days, as they and the larvae can't survive temps below 40 or so... D - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Hall" To: Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 12:42 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Chiggers! > Hello the Camp, > > I'm interested in hearing how you that live in chigger country deal with the > bites of them nasty little critters. > > Thanks, > > Allen, in Fort Hall country > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:37:16 -0400 From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! Hardtack.... That happpened to you cause you are just soooo delicate... YF&B D - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randal Bublitz" To: Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 1:22 PM Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Chiggers! > Hi Allen, If you are suffering from chigger bites, I can relate. I got > a good dose of them at the Missouri Eastern ('98). I figured they'd just > go away after awhile.... well, that was my mistake. I ended up with an > infection that affected my entire skin (which is considered an organ). > This infection led to dermatitis, and then exyma (sp?)(which still affects > me). I can't tell you what to do, but I can recommend that you don't let > it go too far if it's still bothering you. See a dermatologist, if > neccessary. I think that those who grow up with them gain some tolerance > for those nasty critters, those who don't - react seriously. I heard all > kinds of wive's tales, home cures, etc... I wish I'd have gone to a Dr. > sooner than I did. Don't let it go too long, if the bites aren't > improving. My humble opinion based on miserable experience. Yfab, Randy > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Allen Hall > > Hello the Camp, > > > > I'm interested in hearing how you that live in chigger country deal with > the > > bites of them nasty little critters. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Allen, in Fort Hall country > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:21:00 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! put penniroyal on your pants legs and you wont get them or take a bit of flowers of sulfer ie a sulfer pill--- hawk On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 10:42:24 -0600 Allen Hall writes: > Hello the Camp, > > I'm interested in hearing how you that live in chigger country deal > with the > bites of them nasty little critters. > > Thanks, > > Allen, in Fort Hall country > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > "Hawk" Michael Pierce Home of ""OLD GRIZZ" (c) Products & #4 mill Hollow Rd. " The Arkansas Underhammer Rifles" Eureka Springs Ark 72632 phone: 1-479-363-9495 e-mail: hawknest4@juno.com web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 12:16:47 -0700 From: dnelson Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags What you guys are calling "cowboy" saddle bags I don't think exist. Check out Russel paintings, you see no saddle bags, but you do see slickers tied on behind the cantle. If you are carrying a slicker or coat, then what might be carried in the saddle bag was rolled in it and tied on. Cowboys also kept personal stuff in their bed roll, carried on pack animals or in the wagon. Military were different, they had pommel and cantle bags for ever it seems like, and there were Dragoons in the far west early on, so I suppose it's possible a military saddle bag could have been picked up and used if a person figures he has to use one like that. But I expect that the mountain men were probably much the same as cowboys. Items were rolled in a capote or blanket, or carried on the pack animal. I don't even see pictures done by Catlin, Miller, or Bodmer showing bags of traps hanging on saddle horses, but they had to be carried somewhere - ie: pack animals. Looking through "They Saddled the West" by Rice and Vernam ISBN O-87033-199-X is the closest thing I found to a regular saddle bag. It's on page 10 and is on a Mexico-Texas Charro saddle circa 1840-1850. These authors maintain that the original American saddles were European design, flat seated, hornless, light weight. That style saddle ended at the Mississippi River, and the saddle makers of St. Louis starting in 1812 with the first shop, with competition arriving in 1816 and 1820 designed the saddles they made on the Spanish/Mexican style. The next book is "Man Made Mobile - Early Saddles of Western North America" from Smithsonian Studies in History and Technology number 39, Richard Ahlborn Editor. In the examples they show, there are some bags that resemble the pony express type, but anything with a saddle bag is after 1850 up to 1900. But the indian section on the book shows one set of saddle bags, from a painting by Miller titled "Indian Warrior and His Squaw" from his field observations in the Wyoming country in 1837. The bags are behind her legs, but in front of the high horn looking cantle. The next book shows those type bags even better. "The Horse in Blackfoot Indian Culture" by John C. Ewers, Smithsonian Institution Press shows this same type bag on page 118. It's a double saddlebag thrown over a woman's saddle for transportation. So she is sitting on the saddlebags to hold them on the horse. Charles Russel lived with the Blackfeet during the early reservation period, and one of his paintings shows a woman riding a horse that's pulling a travois, and she is using those type saddle bags in that painting. On page 117 Ewers also shows a plain open topped whipped stitched double bag tied to the pommel of an Indian pack saddle. This bag is large enough for a buffalo calf skin bag made by casing the skin of the entire calf to be carried in it. These would actually be beyond saddle bags and would be more like panniers or leather pack bags. He also shows two pommel bags, one a fringed cylinder hung with a strap, and the other a rectangular case with a rawhide strap hanger. Ewers shows no saddlebags for Indian guys. The only other book I have that shows saddle bags is "The Mystic Warriors of the Plains" by Mails. Reading his book I caught him in at least one mistake which causes me to mistrust everything unless I can satisfy myself from other sources. In this case on page 238 he shows a pair of the same style double bags as shown in both the Smithsonian books. These bags are beaded and fringed, and he says that unfolded they are 10 feet long. If you don't have access to these books, I can scan the photos and send them to you. But I guess they don't work if you try and send them to the list. Just off the top of my head, it looks like saddlebags are for the most part girl stuff. Hopes this helps. Dale Nelson P.O. Box 251 Roseburg, OR 97470 Casapy123@aol.com wrote: > The Continental Light Dragoon (late 1770s - early 1780s) used a > "cowboy" type saddle bag. It is pictured in "The Horse Soldier - > 1776-1943" Vol. I, pages 10 & 14. (Randy Steffen, University of > Oklahoma Press, Norman. 1977.) The bag has two straps that connect > the two pouches. One picture shows the pouch with three straps with > buckles. The other shows only two straps with buckles. The pouches > look to be rather small in comparison to what you might typically > think of as "Cowboy" saddle bags. > > Jim Hardee > P.O. Box 1228 > Quincy, CA 95971 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:40:05 -0700 From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! Hi D, Yeah.... relatively delicate.... chiggers got the best of me, only cause they are too small to wrestle.... ... I left the midwest at age 10, and left my natural defenses against tiny skin infesters, it seems. Actually I was too far north, even then, for chiggers (Minn., Ohio and Ill.). My Misery (Missouri) trip was my first aquaintence with those little buggers. The Missouri boys gave me sulphur powder, but that didn't keep 'em away for long. It's been 5 years, and my system is finally settling down. It was a good time though in Misery. I met some good folks, and you . I got in some canoeing on the black river, which was delightful. Some of us are getting ready for a 5 day canoe trip on the Willamette, in Oregon. (no chiggers there). I hope your knee is well healed. My heel is tolerable. Yfab, Randy > [Original Message] > From: Double Edge Forge > To: > Date: 9/6/03 11:37:18 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! > > Hardtack.... > That happpened to you cause you are just soooo delicate... > YF&B > D > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Randal Bublitz" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 1:22 PM > Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Chiggers! > > > > Hi Allen, If you are suffering from chigger bites, I can relate. I got > > a good dose of them at the Missouri Eastern ('98). I figured they'd just > > go away after awhile.... well, that was my mistake. I ended up with an > > infection that affected my entire skin (which is considered an organ). > > This infection led to dermatitis, and then exyma (sp?)(which still affects > > me). I can't tell you what to do, but I can recommend that you don't let > > it go too far if it's still bothering you. See a dermatologist, if > > neccessary. I think that those who grow up with them gain some tolerance > > for those nasty critters, those who don't - react seriously. I heard all > > kinds of wive's tales, home cures, etc... I wish I'd have gone to a Dr. > > sooner than I did. Don't let it go too long, if the bites aren't > > improving. My humble opinion based on miserable experience. Yfab, Randy > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > From: Allen Hall > > > Hello the Camp, > > > > > > I'm interested in hearing how you that live in chigger country deal with > > the > > > bites of them nasty little critters. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Allen, in Fort Hall country > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:49:58 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags - --part1_76.31b0f125.2c8bb086_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dale You have made some very good points, I only called them cow boy saddle bags so everyone would know the type that I was referring to. Out of the all the books you have mentioned the only one I have not seen and want to add to my collection is They Saddled the West by Rice and Vernam. Which is a very good book from what I've heard. I also agree with you about "The Mystic Warriors of the Plains" by Mails, Ten foot long Saddle Bags! this makes me wonder also. The only thing I would like to comment on is the Idea of rolling things up in a rain slicker, capote or blanket or bed roll. When it rains or gets cold then you will want to use these items then what would you do with your stuff? A pack horse would be the most likely. As for a bed roll all my bedding goes under my saddle that is another thing that does not show up in any of the early painting and sketches of mountain men is a bed rolls behind the saddle. While Miller was one of the only artists to do pictures in the field of Mountaineers, he was with Stewart and a supply caravan headed to Rendezvous and not with a Trapping Brigade in the field trapping. So what he does show us my be lacking in some details. Saddle bags do show up from time to time in some Journals so they were used by some men. But maybe not all and they may have been an item used by only the green hands to the mountains. This I'm not sure of. But when they were used I would think they were for the most part made in the field and were of the type that were used by the Indian Women and was the type described as being used by Larpenteur. I do think that saddle bags as we know them would have been something rare to the mountains. These are my thoughts. Crazy Cyot - --part1_76.31b0f125.2c8bb086_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dale

You have made some very good points= , I only called them cow boy saddle bags so everyone would know the type tha= t I was referring to.
Out of the all the books you have mentioned the only one I have not seen= and want to add to my collection is They Saddled the West by Rice and Verna= m. Which is a very good book from what I've heard.
I also agree with you about "The Mystic Warriors of the Plains" by Mails= , Ten foot long Saddle Bags! this makes me wonder also.=20
The only thing I would like to comment on is the Idea of rolling things=20= up in a rain slicker, capote or blanket or bed roll.=20
When it rains or gets cold then you will want to use these items then wh= at would you do with your stuff?
A pack horse would be the most likely. As for a bed roll all my bedding=20= goes under my saddle that is another thing that does not show up in any of t= he early painting and sketches of mountain men is a bed rolls behind the sad= dle.
While Miller was one of the only artists to do pictures in the field of=20= Mountaineers, he was with Stewart and a supply caravan headed to Rendezvous=20= and not with a Trapping Brigade in the field trapping. So what he does show=20= us my be lacking in some details.=20
Saddle bags do show up from time to time in some Journals so they were u= sed by some men. But maybe not all and they may have been an item used by on= ly the green hands to the mountains. This I'm not sure of.  But when th= ey were used I would think they were for the most part made in the field and= were of the type that were used by the Indian Women and was the type descri= bed as being used by Larpenteur.
I do think that saddle bags as we know them would have been something ra= re to the mountains.
These are my thoughts.
Crazy Cyot

- --part1_76.31b0f125.2c8bb086_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 16:13:02 -0700 From: dnelson Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags GazeingCyot@cs.com wrote: I also agree with you about "The Mystic Warriors of the Plains" by Mails, Ten foot long Saddle Bags! this makes me wonder also. I think that's 10 feet counting the fringe, there is real long fringe on them. What I didn't like was the section on shooting the bow. For a supposed expert he comes of a bit weak on that one. As for what's rolled up in the slicker, I used to get left over hitchhikes and bacon and make bacon sandwiches out of them, then roll them in the slicker. Around lunch time or when I got hungry I'd eat, and if I got cold or wet before I got hungry I just ate them anyhow and wore the slicker. It's kind of hard to carry along anything much more serious than a lunch rolled up in anything but a bed roll on the pack mule. Dale Nelson - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 16:15:15 -0700 From: dnelson Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddle Bags I'm thinking my spell checker just changed hotcakes to hitchhikes. Hot cakes and bacon is the word. Dale Nelson - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 19:54:19 -0400 From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! Hey Randy We have chiggers here in Ohio, but I think that are more domesticated than the ones in Ky or Mo. I think them are a different breed. I think EVERYTHING in MO in Aug bites, stings or chews,, Pure mean, no wonder the James boys were cantanquorous.. I will let the "And You" crack pass, for now... Would love to be on that trip with y'all.... In a stock building mode now for shows, doins and such for the Fall season... Knee is healing, sorta overdid it at the Eastern, but I ain't lettin it get in my way too much if I can help it. Glad yer heel is doin better.... D - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randal Bublitz" To: Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 5:40 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! > Hi D, Yeah.... relatively delicate.... chiggers got the best of me, > only cause they are too small to wrestle.... ... I left the midwest > at age 10, and left my natural defenses against tiny skin infesters, it > seems. Actually I was too far north, even then, for chiggers (Minn., Ohio > and Ill.). My Misery (Missouri) trip was my first aquaintence with those > little buggers. The Missouri boys gave me sulphur powder, but that didn't > keep 'em away for long. It's been 5 years, and my system is finally > settling down. It was a good time though in Misery. I met some good > folks, and you . I got in some canoeing on the black river, which was > delightful. Some of us are getting ready for a 5 day canoe trip on the > Willamette, in Oregon. (no chiggers there). I hope your knee is well > healed. My heel is tolerable. Yfab, Randy - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 20:27:50 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Chiggers! - --part1_14.1878de27.2c8bd586_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis I think that is another reason all them men from down south and back east headed out west for the Shining Mountains and didn't look back was to get shed of all them bitin, stingin and chewin no seeums. At least with Grizz and Blackfeet ya can see what ya got to contend with. (G) Crazy - --part1_14.1878de27.2c8bd586_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dennis
I think that is another reason all them men from down south and back eas= t headed out west for the Shining Mountains and didn't look back was to get=20= shed of all them bitin, stingin and chewin no seeums. At least with Grizz an= d Blackfeet ya can see what ya got to contend with. (G)
Crazy - --part1_14.1878de27.2c8bd586_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:36:37 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: was Saddle Bags now Tapaderos - --part1_22.3d6ea3a0.2c8be5a5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got this from Louis Lasater one of the members of our party that is not on this list but he brings up another good question on Tapaderos can any one give us some help there. Crazy It also occurred to me that Mr. Ashworth's story would be a "point in case" for the National Rifle Association. More guns, less crime. As with all of our research, we should put what our research reveals to practical use today. One question I have for one & all, which came up again during one of my presentations at the Fort. Tapaderos: Monkey Face and Bat Wing. Can anybody tell me which one is, and which one is not ... period (pre 1840)?. Hooah Louis - --part1_22.3d6ea3a0.2c8be5a5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I got this from Louis Las= ater one of the members of our party that is not on this list but he bring= s up another good question on Tapaderos can any one give us some help there.
Crazy



It also occurred to me that Mr. Ashworth's story would be a "point in ca= se" for the National Rifle Association.  More guns, less crime.  A= s with all of our research, we should put what our research reveals to pract= ical use today.

One question I have for one & all, which came up again during one of= my presentations at the Fort.  Tapaderos:  Monkey Face and Bat Wi= ng.  Can anybody tell me which one is, and which one is not ... period=20= (pre 1840)?.

Hooah
Louis
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