From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1284 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, December 17 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1284 In this issue: -       MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake -       Re: MtMan-List: canvas -       MtMan-List: Shotgun for sale -       Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake -       Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake -       Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake -       MtMan-List: Hawken Inquiry -       Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake -       Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake -       Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:58:31 -0800 From: "Ron & Mary Blanchard" Subject: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3C3BB.29715620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm new to the list. My great, great grandfather, Scott Fisher was a = French-Canadian fur trader and explorer that discovered the Great Salt = Lake with the Jim Bridger expedition according to my family history. I'm = in need of assistance in finding out more about him and anything in = writing that can document this for a book I'm writing. Anyone have info? Mary McCaslin-Blanchard mccaslin77@dslextreme.com - ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3C3BB.29715620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm new to the list. My great, great = grandfather,=20 Scott Fisher was a French-Canadian fur trader and explorer that = discovered the=20 Great Salt Lake with the Jim Bridger expedition according to my family = history.=20 I'm in need of assistance in finding out more about him and anything in = writing=20 that can document this for a book I'm writing. Anyone have = info?
 
Mary McCaslin-Blanchard
mccaslin77@dslextreme.com
- ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C3C3BB.29715620-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 20:40:33 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: canvas This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C3C414.DA5D3F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dr Moyer I have always heard that after the elimination of the buffalo herds in = the 1870's that canvas was made available to Indians (particularly = "tame" Indians) from trading posts and reservation suttlers. I have = also heard that canvas first began to be available to Indians as wagon = born pioneers began making their way west in the 1840's. I have no idea = if this is truth or another example of made up "knowledge". Raiding = wagon trains seems like a sparse source of building material if you ask = me, but there might be some truth to it. Click the address below for an = interesting, if short, article on the subject. I expect that contacting = the author, Mr Crieghton, might lead you to the information you want. cordially Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays http://hometown.aol.com/eaglepipe1945/myhomepage/writing.html ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John.Moyer@UCHSC.edu=20 To: hist_text@xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 11:38 AM Subject: MtMan-List: canvas Wonder if anybody reading this can help me find an answer to the = question.when did canvas first become available to the Native Americans, = particularly the Southern Cheyenne. When did the Plains Indians first = build lodges out of canvas? Thanks. JPM =20 John P. Moyer MD FAAP Clinical Professor of Pediatrics Associate Director Foundations of Doctoring Curriculum CU School of Medicine 4200 East 9th Avenue Denver 80262 CO 303-315-1546 FAX 303-315-1778 John.Moyer @uchsc.edu =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C3C414.DA5D3F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dr Moyer
I have always heard that = after the=20 elimination of the buffalo herds in the 1870's that canvas was made = available to=20 Indians (particularly "tame" Indians) from trading posts and reservation = suttlers.  I have also heard that canvas first began = to be=20 available to Indians as wagon born pioneers began making their way west = in the=20 1840's.  I have no idea if this is truth or another example of made = up=20 "knowledge".  Raiding wagon trains seems like a sparse = source of=20 building material if you ask me, but there might be some truth = to=20 it.  Click the address below for an interesting, if short, article = on the=20 subject.  I expect that contacting the author, Mr Crieghton, might = lead you=20 to the information you want.
cordially
Lanney Ratcliff
lanneyratcliff@charter.net=
______________________________________________________________
Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays
 
ht= tp://hometown.aol.com/eaglepipe1945/myhomepage/writing.html
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 John.Moyer@UCHSC.edu
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, = 2003 11:38=20 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: = canvas

Wonder if anybody = reading this can=20 help me find an answer to the question=85when did = canvas first=20 become available to the Native Americans, particularly the=20 Southern=20 Cheyenne. When did the Plains = Indians=20 first build lodges out of canvas?

Thanks.

JPM

 

John P. Moyer MD=20 FAAP

Clinical Professor of=20 Pediatrics

Associate Director = Foundations of=20 Doctoring Curriculum

CU=20 School of Medicine

4200 East = 9th=20 Avenue

Denver 80262 CO

303-315-1546

FAX 303-315-1778

John.Moyer=20 @uchsc.edu

 

- ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C3C414.DA5D3F40-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:25:33 -0700 (MST) From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Shotgun for sale My friend, Big Dawg has a gun for sale. It's a CVA double barrel per. .12 ga shotgun. 28" barrels with no choke. He's asking $250. for it. Anyone interested write him, not me, at: bigdawg_52@msn.com Thank you and Merry Christmas, bb - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:59:59 -0700 From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_010D_01C3C41F.F2C605C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mary Welcome to the list. Since you have made it here I assume you know how = to find Dean Rudy's web page. I wont take away all the fun of = researching this from you but if you use his search engine you may find = some stuff. Also there is an excellant list of names and where they get = meantioned available on his website as well. Both may help you. The Frenchies are sometimes harder to track since they didn't write to = much. Try to put together a rough bio of where and when he was involved = and then look for details from the journalists etc in that time and = place. Be aware that claiming that Bridger was the first to find the Great Salt = Lake is pretty contraversial. There were others in the area first and = his story is a little grand to swallow. Personally I have never = understood why this is such a big deal. It a big sinking lake! Why not = argue about who first "discovered" some of the falls on the snake that = are so beautiful or Bear Lake or some other place that is worth = discovering. I hope you find the information that you are looking for and I hope you = stay in touch with this list because it is a great resource for = historical writers, but beware we are hard on authors. I think the = last one nearly cried when we told them that if they wanted it to be at = all believable they were going to have to get dirty and cold and do some = work. One of our members drug on author half way across the country and = made her camp on the ground and walk a lot and meet some of the wildest = men in the country. We still toast her memory sometimes aint that right = Lanney? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ron & Mary Blanchard=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:58 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake I'm new to the list. My great, great grandfather, Scott Fisher was a = French-Canadian fur trader and explorer that discovered the Great Salt = Lake with the Jim Bridger expedition according to my family history. I'm = in need of assistance in finding out more about him and anything in = writing that can document this for a book I'm writing. Anyone have info? Mary McCaslin-Blanchard mccaslin77@dslextreme.com - ------=_NextPart_000_010D_01C3C41F.F2C605C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mary
 
Welcome to the list.  Since you = have made it=20 here I assume you know how to find Dean Rudy's web page.  I wont = take away=20 all the fun of researching this from you but if you use his search=20 engine you may find some stuff.  Also there is an excellant = list of=20 names and where they get meantioned available on his website as = well.  Both=20 may help you.
 
The Frenchies are sometimes harder to = track since=20 they didn't write to much.  Try to put together a rough bio of = where and=20 when he was involved and then look for details from the journalists etc = in that=20 time and place.
 
Be aware that claiming that Bridger was = the first=20 to find the Great Salt Lake is pretty contraversial.  There were = others in=20 the area first and his story is a little grand to swallow.  = Personally I=20 have never understood why this is such a big deal.  It a big = sinking=20 lake!  Why not argue about who first "discovered" some of the = falls on=20 the snake that are so beautiful or Bear Lake or some other place that is = worth=20 discovering.
 
I hope you find the information that = you are=20 looking for and I hope you stay in touch with this list because it = is a=20 great resource for historical writers, but beware we are hard  on=20 authors.  I think the last one nearly cried when we told them = that if=20 they wanted it to be at all believable they were going to have to get = dirty and=20 cold and do some work.  One of our members drug on author half = way=20 across the country and made her camp on the ground and walk a lot = and meet=20 some of the wildest men in the country.  We still = toast her=20 memory sometimes aint that right Lanney?
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ron=20 & Mary Blanchard
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, = 2003 10:58=20 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: Discovery = of Great=20 Salt Lake

I'm new to the list. My great, great = grandfather,=20 Scott Fisher was a French-Canadian fur trader and explorer that = discovered the=20 Great Salt Lake with the Jim Bridger expedition according to my family = history. I'm in need of assistance in finding out more about him and = anything=20 in writing that can document this for a book I'm writing. Anyone have=20 info?
 
Mary McCaslin-Blanchard
mccaslin77@dslextreme.com
- ------=_NextPart_000_010D_01C3C41F.F2C605C0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 05:28:01 -0800 From: "Ron & Mary Blanchard" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3C45E.89D3B9B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wynn, Thanks so much for the sage advice. My book is primarily a = genealogical study. Actually I do have handwritten records on this = branch of my family that are written in French. My grandfather, Bert = Fisher, when he was alive spoke to my family about his explorer = grandfather. Years ago there was a question on the t.v. program, = "Jeopardy", which specifically acknowledged Scott Fisher as a sidekick, = so to speak of Jim Bridger, when they discovered the Great Salt Lake. My = grandfather was born in MT. in an area that Bridger traveled through, so = I'm really sure the family history is correct. I'm not prepared and = won't debate about the claim of being the first discoverers though. Like = yourself, I don't understand the big to do. I'm not familiar with Dean = Rudy's web page, but will try and find it. Thanks again.- Mary - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3C45E.89D3B9B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wynn, Thanks so much for the sage = advice. My book=20 is primarily a genealogical study. Actually I do have handwritten = records on=20 this branch of my family that are written in French. My grandfather, = Bert=20 Fisher, when he was alive spoke to my family about his explorer = grandfather.=20 Years ago there was a question on the t.v. program, "Jeopardy", which=20 specifically acknowledged Scott Fisher as a sidekick, so to speak of Jim = Bridger, when they discovered the Great Salt Lake. My grandfather was = born in=20 MT. in an area that Bridger traveled through, so I'm really sure the = family=20 history is correct. I'm not prepared and won't debate about the claim of = being=20 the first discoverers though. Like yourself, I don't understand the big = to do.=20 I'm not familiar with Dean Rudy's web page, but will try and find it. = Thanks=20 again.- Mary
- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3C45E.89D3B9B0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 18:37:47 -0600 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake Ron, I just took a quick glance through Leroy Hafen's "The Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the Far West" in Volume IV, p.97 he offers a biographical sketch of a Robert Fisher who was more a contemporary of Kit Carson. He was involved in the SW Taos and Santa Fe trade. Hiram Scott Volume I, p.355 was one of General Ashley's one hundred "enterprising young men," he is a mysterious character of which little is truly known and much is speculated; he was certainly a comrade of Bridger's at one time or another. These are the only names Hafen has associated with Scott or Fisher. SnakeOyl... At 07:28 AM 12/17/03, you wrote: >Wynn, Thanks so much for the sage advice. My book is primarily a >genealogical study. Actually I do have handwritten records on this branch >of my family that are written in French. My grandfather, Bert Fisher, when >he was alive spoke to my family about his explorer grandfather. Years ago >there was a question on the t.v. program, "Jeopardy", which specifically >acknowledged Scott Fisher as a sidekick, so to speak of Jim Bridger, when >they discovered the Great Salt Lake. My grandfather was born in MT. in an >area that Bridger traveled through, so I'm really sure the family history >is correct. I'm not prepared and won't debate about the claim of being the >first discoverers though. Like yourself, I don't understand the big to do. >I'm not familiar with Dean Rudy's web page, but will try and find it. >Thanks again.- Mary - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 19:43:59 -0500 From: "Jim Zeigler" Subject: MtMan-List: Hawken Inquiry Hello List: Does anyone have any information on the large caliber, Hawken rifle that Ashley had made for his journey west?....thanks.....jim - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:40:12 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C3C4DD.F7D90F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mary Click here for Dean Rudy's web page: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm.html Lanney Ratcliff ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ron & Mary Blanchard=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 7:28 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake Wynn, Thanks so much for the sage advice. My book is primarily a = genealogical study. Actually I do have handwritten records on this = branch of my family that are written in French. My grandfather, Bert = Fisher, when he was alive spoke to my family about his explorer = grandfather. Years ago there was a question on the t.v. program, = "Jeopardy", which specifically acknowledged Scott Fisher as a sidekick, = so to speak of Jim Bridger, when they discovered the Great Salt Lake. My = grandfather was born in MT. in an area that Bridger traveled through, so = I'm really sure the family history is correct. I'm not prepared and = won't debate about the claim of being the first discoverers though. Like = yourself, I don't understand the big to do. I'm not familiar with Dean = Rudy's web page, but will try and find it. Thanks again.- Mary - ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C3C4DD.F7D90F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mary
Click here for Dean Rudy's = web page: http://www.xmission.com/= ~drudy/amm.html
Lanney = Ratcliff
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ron=20 & Mary Blanchard
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, = 2003 7:28=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Discovery of=20 Great Salt Lake

Wynn, Thanks so much for the sage = advice. My book=20 is primarily a genealogical study. Actually I do have handwritten = records on=20 this branch of my family that are written in French. My grandfather, = Bert=20 Fisher, when he was alive spoke to my family about his explorer = grandfather.=20 Years ago there was a question on the t.v. program, "Jeopardy", which=20 specifically acknowledged Scott Fisher as a sidekick, so to speak of = Jim=20 Bridger, when they discovered the Great Salt Lake. My grandfather was = born in=20 MT. in an area that Bridger traveled through, so I'm really sure the = family=20 history is correct. I'm not prepared and won't debate about the claim = of being=20 the first discoverers though. Like yourself, I don't understand the = big to do.=20 I'm not familiar with Dean Rudy's web page, but will try and find it. = Thanks=20 again.- Mary
- ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C3C4DD.F7D90F80-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:12:45 -0700 From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C3C4E2.8406D880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mary At this sight is a list of names of men involved in the fur trade by = Mike Moore who has been on this list and maybe still is so we better not = say bad things about him. ;-) http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/names/names.html Look up the Fisher name. There are several listed with sources listed = in abbreviated form. Some of those sources are available other places = on the web. Some you may have to go to a library to find. It will give = you a good start. Remember that sometimes men were known by different = first names. Scott does not have a paticularly French sound to it, so = it could be an Americanized name which would make it even easier for him = to have another one. You know that even a geneolical book needs to be well researched. Maybe = you ought to go out and wade into the cold water and catch a beaver. It = would give you a better appreciation for the life Grandpa Scott lived. Wynn ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ron & Mary Blanchard=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 6:28 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake Wynn, Thanks so much for the sage advice. My book is primarily a = genealogical study. Actually I do have handwritten records on this = branch of my family that are written in French. My grandfather, Bert = Fisher, when he was alive spoke to my family about his explorer = grandfather. Years ago there was a question on the t.v. program, = "Jeopardy", which specifically acknowledged Scott Fisher as a sidekick, = so to speak of Jim Bridger, when they discovered the Great Salt Lake. My = grandfather was born in MT. in an area that Bridger traveled through, so = I'm really sure the family history is correct. I'm not prepared and = won't debate about the claim of being the first discoverers though. Like = yourself, I don't understand the big to do. I'm not familiar with Dean = Rudy's web page, but will try and find it. Thanks again.- Mary - ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C3C4E2.8406D880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mary
 
At this sight is a list of names of men = involved in=20 the fur trade by Mike Moore who has been on this list and maybe still is = so we=20 better not say bad things about him.  ;-)
 
http:= //www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/names/names.html
 
Look up the Fisher name.  There = are several=20 listed with sources listed in abbreviated form.  Some of those = sources are=20 available other places on the web.  Some you may have to go to a = library to=20 find.  It will give you a good start.  Remember that sometimes = men=20 were known by different first names.  Scott does not have a = paticularly=20 French sound to it, so it could be an Americanized name which would make = it even=20 easier for him to have another one.
 
You know that even a geneolical book = needs to be=20 well researched.  Maybe you ought to go out and wade into the cold = water=20 and catch a beaver.  It would give you a better appreciation for = the life=20 Grandpa Scott lived.
 
Wynn
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ron=20 & Mary Blanchard
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, = 2003 6:28=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Discovery of=20 Great Salt Lake

Wynn, Thanks so much for the sage = advice. My book=20 is primarily a genealogical study. Actually I do have handwritten = records on=20 this branch of my family that are written in French. My grandfather, = Bert=20 Fisher, when he was alive spoke to my family about his explorer = grandfather.=20 Years ago there was a question on the t.v. program, "Jeopardy", which=20 specifically acknowledged Scott Fisher as a sidekick, so to speak of = Jim=20 Bridger, when they discovered the Great Salt Lake. My grandfather was = born in=20 MT. in an area that Bridger traveled through, so I'm really sure the = family=20 history is correct. I'm not prepared and won't debate about the claim = of being=20 the first discoverers though. Like yourself, I don't understand the = big to do.=20 I'm not familiar with Dean Rudy's web page, but will try and find it. = Thanks=20 again.- Mary
- ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C3C4E2.8406D880-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 04:26:48 +0000 From: amm1616@comcast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Discovery of Great Salt Lake Yes, you never know who may be lurking!;) Mary, I haven't found the relative of yours, but never fear. I will be updating the 1700+ names I have on the list this winter. I know I can add maybe 200 more and you never know where he may turn up at. You might even do a web search if you haven't already, he may turn up on some of the Mormon rolls which are quite good. mike. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #1284 ******************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.