From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1294 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, January 9 2004 Volume 01 : Number 1294 In this issue: -       MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? -       Re: MtMan-List: Rocky Mountain College dates -       RE: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? -       MtMan-List: Swimming -       RE: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? -       Re: MtMan-List: Swimming -       Re: MtMan-List: Swimming -       Re: MtMan-List: Swimming -       Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? -       Fwd: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? -       Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? -       Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? -       Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:47:14 -0500 From: MunevarL@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? I am planning a 3-day jaunt 20 miles for the end of March and I would like advice on how to carry my gear utilizing mountain man era historically correct method. I have read a little about pack baskets, pack frames, knapsack/haversacks and blanket rolls from the Buckskinning 1 and 2. What do you all use to carry your gear? What works for you given the amount of food, water (2-3 gallons)and bedding required for a trip of this length (starts in the mountains and ends on the desert floor.) Pack baskets seem the easiest but I have read that they make your back and hips sore (is that true?), any success with pack frames, knapsacks/haversacks (are these actually used for jaunts requiring blankets, lean-to cloth, provisions, etc. they seem to small) I would appreciate any advice you would like to share. Thanks, Lou - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 04:27:59 +0000 From: amm1616@comcast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rocky Mountain College dates Frank, If you go to the Colorado State Muzzle Loading Association's webe site (csmla.org), it will give you the dates, and who to talk to there. It is usually the first full week in August, hope to see you there! mike. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:14:45 -0800 From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Good Sir The original journals are remarkably deficient in describing how the mountain men humped their stuff around when they lost their horses. I have seen reference to "heaving our bundles on our backs" without much detail, making me suspect improvised arrangements with tumpline and ropes. I use a primitive pack frame that I made from local materials, and usually carry my stuff in three bundles lashed to this frame - one leather portmanteau (cylindrical case) for my possibles and two rolls of canvas and bedding. I have also used a packbasket for the possibles with bedroll horse-shoed over top. Both seemed to ride OK. Neither is really that historically correct as the original guys always packed by horse or canoe except in emergencies. But I figure anything you can improvise or make in the field is at least "reasonable". I have never used a knapsack but I know some who do and they like theirs OK too. My impression however is that it flops around more and cuts off more air from your back (you will work up a sweat). You will naturally want to lighten your load as much as possible - your water ration is a significant weight burden but important of course. The original mountaineers rarely carried water but we can't depend on drinking out of any old hoofprint like those old boys did. However, if you think you can find any local source at all that you can boil, you could carry less. Your trip is a challenge due to the climate change from mountain to desert since you have to allow for a range of conditions. Hopefully you will be able to make fires which can spare you some degree of bedding. Best of luck Pat Quilter - -----Original Message----- From: MunevarL@aol.com [mailto:MunevarL@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 7:47 PM To: hist_text@xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? I am planning a 3-day jaunt 20 miles for the end of March and I would like advice on how to carry my gear utilizing mountain man era historically correct method. I have read a little about pack baskets, pack frames, knapsack/haversacks and blanket rolls from the Buckskinning 1 and 2. What do you all use to carry your gear? What works for you given the amount of food, water (2-3 gallons)and bedding required for a trip of this length (starts in the mountains and ends on the desert floor.) Pack baskets seem the easiest but I have read that they make your back and hips sore (is that true?), any success with pack frames, knapsacks/haversacks (are these actually used for jaunts requiring blankets, lean-to cloth, provisions, etc. they seem to small) I would appreciate any advice you would like to share. Thanks, Lou - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:07:50 -0700 From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Swimming This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01EE_01C3D63C.3D1E8CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was reading a book called Breakthrough Swimming in which the author = spent some time researching swimming in history. He claimed that = Europeans used a breast stroke and side stroke but no variation of the = crawl or freestyle. However, Native Americans, Australians, and = Pacific Islanders were proficeint swimmers using it. Does anyone else = know anything more about this subject? If nothing else that might well = explain why we read such glowing reports about the abilities of the = Indains in water. I know both Catlin and Miller talk about the womens = ability to swim. =20 Just a little tidbit for you to give you perspective anyway. Or maybe a = new requirement for the Women of the Fur Trade to add to the list. Wynn Ormond - ------=_NextPart_000_01EE_01C3D63C.3D1E8CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was reading a book called = Breakthrough Swimming=20 in which the author spent some time researching swimming in = history.  He=20 claimed that Europeans used a breast stroke and side stroke but no = variation of=20 the crawl or freestyle.  However, Native Americans, Australians, = and =20 Pacific Islanders were proficeint swimmers using it.  Does anyone = else know=20 anything more about this subject?  If nothing else that might well = explain=20 why we read such glowing reports about the abilities of the Indains in=20 water.  I know both Catlin and Miller talk about the womens ability = to=20 swim.  
 
Just a little tidbit for you = to give you=20 perspective anyway.  Or maybe a new requirement for the Women of = the Fur=20 Trade to add to the list.
Wynn Ormond
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_01EE_01C3D63C.3D1E8CE0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:18:43 -0800 From: "Kim-Ken Carpenter" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Lou, Sounds interesting. Are you in California. I have done some primitive treking in the Sierras. I roll everything up in my blanket roll and sling it across my back. Only carry jerky and/or dried meat, dried corn, dried fruits, salt pork or bacon, sheet iron skillet or a corn boiler and a cup, wooden spoon. But, there are a whole lot of other foods you can carry that will keep and are light, like cheese, even fresh meat for the first night. Start off with it frozen. Done it and had no problem. Had a gourd canteen that I made, but I broke it at Ham's Fork on a horseback trip on which we visited the four main camps of the '34 rendezvous. Have to make another. That's about it, except for my normal shooting bag and possibles. If you carry that much water you'll probably need three or four times that much. It's logarithmic. Water weighs about 8 pounds per gallon if I remember my hydraulics right. Carrying that much water has diminishing returns because you use up so much more water and energy, carrying water. It is kind of like you can't create or destroy energy, you can only change it's form. In the Sierras or the Rockies it is not hard to find water. I only carry a couple of quarts. Boiling water doesn't work for me unless you are sitting in camp for quite awhile. If you are in areas with questionable water, cheat and carry a filter :). If you are in the National Forest, sometimes the Forest Service can tell you if there are known water problems in a given area, like parasites, etc. That's been my experience anyway. There's water in the dez also. That's why I am wondering where you are treking. Good luck, Carp > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 1/8/2004 7:47:17 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? > > I am planning a 3-day jaunt 20 miles for the end of March and I would like advice on how to carry my gear utilizing mountain man era historically correct method. I have read a little about pack baskets, pack frames, knapsack/haversacks and blanket rolls from the Buckskinning 1 and 2. What do you all use to carry your gear? What works for you given the amount of food, water (2-3 gallons)and bedding required for a trip of this length (starts in the mountains and ends on the desert floor.) Pack baskets seem the easiest but I have read that they make your back and hips sore (is that true?), any success with pack frames, knapsacks/haversacks (are these actually used for jaunts requiring blankets, lean-to cloth, provisions, etc. they seem to small) I would appreciate any advice you would like to share. > > Thanks, Lou > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:23:57 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swimming - --part1_14b.28f93233.2d2fa2fd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wynn When it comes to Indian women swimmers I like to think of the breast stroke. Bad Cyot! Bad, bad Cyot! Sorry couldn't help it Crazy made me. (VBG) - --part1_14b.28f93233.2d2fa2fd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wynn
When it comes to Indian women swimmers I like to think of the breast str= oke.
Bad Cyot! Bad, bad Cyot!=20
Sorry couldn't help it Crazy made me. (VBG)
=20
=20
- --part1_14b.28f93233.2d2fa2fd_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 06:37:39 +0000 From: "Michael Powell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swimming

Wynn,

I'm pretty sure that Miller documented that occuring "topless" to to be sure!

I, for one, would sign on and volunteer my time to document the event, visually!

Mike




AMM #1769
POISON RIVER PARTY
"Ride, Ride, Ride"
"Aux Aliments du Pays"! >From: GazeingCyot@cs.com >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swimming >Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:23:57 EST > >Wynn >When it comes to Indian women swimmers I like to think of the breast stroke. >Bad Cyot! Bad, bad Cyot! >Sorry couldn't help it Crazy made me. (VBG) > > >

Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work — and yourself. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:29:34 EST From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swimming - --part1_169.287e8171.2d2fb25e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, uh, I hope this comment isn't too cleanor in good taste, but I found that info. on the different swimming strokes to be interesting. It WOULD be fascinating to know if the Native Amer. had different/better strokes than the Europeans and that accounts for the many glowing accounts of Indians as swimmers. I'm looking forward to more input on this. John Sweet Colo Spgs - --part1_169.287e8171.2d2fb25e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey, uh, I hope this comment isn= 't too cleanor in good taste, but I found that info. on the different swimmi= ng strokes to be interesting. 

It WOULD be fascinating to know if the Native Amer. had different/better str= okes than the Europeans and that accounts for the many glowing accounts of I= ndians as swimmers.

I'm looking forward to more input on this.

John Sweet
Colo Spgs - --part1_169.287e8171.2d2fb25e_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 03:46:27 EST From: MunevarL@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? - --part1_145.20295593.2d2fc463_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carp, I am in Southern California. Thanks for the insights. Excuse my ignorance of terminology and gear but when you say that you carried everything in a blanket roll. What was carried in the blanket roll (extra clothing, food, corn boiler, cup, spoon)? How is the blanket roll constructed? Is it like as follows: 1) lay out your ground cloth, 2) lay your blanket(s) on top, 3) fold blanket in half length wise 4) lay all of the items to be carried on the blanket evenly, 5) roll the blanket over the contents and 6) fold the rolled blanket in half so that the two ends meet and tie them together with some rope or straps. How is it carried then (over the head and one arm that that it is diagonal across your body? Sorry to be so anal retentive but I am really trying to understand what how to do this. Finally, you said that you also carry your "possibles". Is this just a separate bag worn over one shoulder or across your chest as with a shooting bag. What are "possibles"? Thanks again for your patience. - --part1_145.20295593.2d2fc463_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carp,

I am in Southern California.  Thanks for the insights.  Excuse my=20= ignorance of terminology and gear but when you say that you carried everythi= ng in a blanket roll.  What was carried in the blanket roll (extra clot= hing, food, corn boiler, cup, spoon)?  How is the blanket roll construc= ted?  Is it like as follows: 1) lay out your ground cloth, 2) lay your=20= blanket(s) on top, 3) fold blanket in half length wise 4) lay all of the ite= ms to be carried on the blanket evenly, 5) roll the blanket over the content= s and 6) fold the rolled blanket in half so that the two ends meet and tie t= hem together with some rope or straps.  How is it carried then (over th= e head and one arm that that it is diagonal across your body?  Sorry to= be so anal retentive but I am really trying to understand what how to do th= is.

Finally, you said that you also carry your "possibles".  Is this just a= separate bag worn over one shoulder or across your chest as with a shooting= bag.  What are "possibles"?

Thanks again for your patience. - --part1_145.20295593.2d2fc463_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:52:53 EST From: MunevarL@aol.com Subject: Fwd: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? - --part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_alt_boundary" - --part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat, Thanks for the information on methods of carrying your gear and insights as to how, in the absence of detailed historical references, to make choices that are reasonably plausible for the period. It sounds like the pack frame is your choice. Do you happen to have any instructions on how to make a pack frame and maybe a picture of the one you use (both loaded down with your gear and without gear)? Have you seen the description of the pack frame in Buckskinning 2? What do you think of it? Finally, you mentioned that you strap 3 bundles to your pack frame: a portmaneau for possibles and 2 canvas rolls and bedding. What do you carry in the portmaneau? What are possibles? (sorry for the elementary questions?) When you say to canvas rolls and bedding what exactly do you mean? Are you simply rolling up your remaing gear in your blanket(s), canvas ground cloth and canvas shelter cloth into two separate rolls and strapping them on? Look forward to your thoughts. Take care. Lou - --part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pat,

Thanks for the information on methods of carrying your gear and insights as=20= to how, in the absence of detailed historical references, to make choices th= at are reasonably plausible for the period. 

It sounds like the pack frame is your choice.  Do you happen to have an= y instructions on how to make a pack frame and maybe a picture of the one yo= u use (both loaded down with your gear and without gear)?  Have you see= n the description of the pack frame in Buckskinning 2?  What do you thi= nk of it?  Finally, you mentioned that you strap 3 bundles to your pack= frame: a portmaneau for possibles and 2 canvas rolls and bedding.  Wha= t do you carry in the portmaneau?  What are possibles? (sorry for the e= lementary questions?)  When you say to canvas rolls and bedding what ex= actly do you mean? Are you simply rolling up your remaing gear in your blank= et(s), canvas ground cloth and canvas shelter cloth into two separate rolls=20= and strapping them on?

Look forward to your thoughts.  Take care.

Lou

 - --part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_alt_boundary-- - --part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yh04.mx.aol.com (rly-yh04.mail.aol.com [172.18.180.68]) by air-yh02.mail.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINYH22-2bf3ffe38e323d; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:15:46 -0500 Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by rly-yh04.mx.aol.com (v97.10) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYH43-2bf3ffe38e323d; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:15:20 -0500 Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 1Aeoz6-0001kk-00 for hist_text-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:15:00 -0700 Received: from [207.168.191.2] (helo=mail.qsc.net) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 1Aeoz4-0001kU-00 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:14:58 -0700 Received: by EXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:14:55 -0800 Message-ID: <0DB0FC04E63C08499274CFD48DB6253A0417C586@EXCHANGE> From: Pat Quilter To: "'hist_text@lists.xmission.com'" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:14:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com X-AOL-IP: 198.60.22.7 Good Sir The original journals are remarkably deficient in describing how the mountain men humped their stuff around when they lost their horses. I have seen reference to "heaving our bundles on our backs" without much detail, making me suspect improvised arrangements with tumpline and ropes. I use a primitive pack frame that I made from local materials, and usually carry my stuff in three bundles lashed to this frame - one leather portmanteau (cylindrical case) for my possibles and two rolls of canvas and bedding. I have also used a packbasket for the possibles with bedroll horse-shoed over top. Both seemed to ride OK. Neither is really that historically correct as the original guys always packed by horse or canoe except in emergencies. But I figure anything you can improvise or make in the field is at least "reasonable". I have never used a knapsack but I know some who do and they like theirs OK too. My impression however is that it flops around more and cuts off more air from your back (you will work up a sweat). You will naturally want to lighten your load as much as possible - your water ration is a significant weight burden but important of course. The original mountaineers rarely carried water but we can't depend on drinking out of any old hoofprint like those old boys did. However, if you think you can find any local source at all that you can boil, you could carry less. Your trip is a challenge due to the climate change from mountain to desert since you have to allow for a range of conditions. Hopefully you will be able to make fires which can spare you some degree of bedding. Best of luck Pat Quilter - -----Original Message----- From: MunevarL@aol.com [mailto:MunevarL@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 7:47 PM To: hist_text@xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? I am planning a 3-day jaunt 20 miles for the end of March and I would like advice on how to carry my gear utilizing mountain man era historically correct method. I have read a little about pack baskets, pack frames, knapsack/haversacks and blanket rolls from the Buckskinning 1 and 2. What do you all use to carry your gear? What works for you given the amount of food, water (2-3 gallons)and bedding required for a trip of this length (starts in the mountains and ends on the desert floor.) Pack baskets seem the easiest but I have read that they make your back and hips sore (is that true?), any success with pack frames, knapsacks/haversacks (are these actually used for jaunts requiring blankets, lean-to cloth, provisions, etc. they seem to small) I would appreciate any advice you would like to share. Thanks, Lou - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - --part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:51:36 -0800 From: "Kim-Ken Carpenter" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? - ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Sent: 1/9/2004 12:46:27 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Carp, I am in Southern California. Thanks for the insights. Excuse my ignorance of terminology and gear but when you say that you carried everything in a blanket roll. What was carried in the blanket roll (extra clothing, food, corn boiler, cup, spoon)? How is the blanket roll constructed? Is it like as follows: 1) lay out your ground cloth, 2) lay your blanket(s) on top, 3) fold blanket in half length wise 4) lay all of the items to be carried on the blanket evenly, 5) roll the blanket over the contents and 6) fold the rolled blanket in half so that the two ends meet and tie them together with some rope or straps. How is it carried then (over the head and one arm that that it is diagonal across your body? Sorry to be so anal retentive but I am really trying to understand what how to do this. That's it. I put anything flat, dried meat and corn in cloth bags, long underwear, extra pair socks, whatever else, in the blanket roll and tie it with four straps either hemp or leather. Then I tie a shoulder strap and just as you said, sling it over my shoulder so it lay diagonally across my back. I tie bulky items to the outside. You don't want them to flop around cause this will bug the hell out of you while hiking and it may make noise. A great ground cloth can be found, if you are in So Cal, at a good gardeners shop where real Japanese gardeners buy their supplies. They use a cotton duck tarp to gather grass and leaves and it is the perfect size for a ground tarp. Serves the period too (some of the AMM guys can weigh in on that), no grommets just cotton duck with a hem on the perimeter. You can treat it with linseed oil, but be careful of that. Many natural oils will support/cause spontaneous combustion. After treatment you need to make sure it is completely dry. I believe this subject (oiled cloth) has been on the discussion list in the past. Finally, you said that you also carry your "possibles". Is this just a separate bag worn over one shoulder or across your chest as with a shooting bag. What are "possibles"? Yes, I carry minimal shooting accessories in a over the shoulder shooting bag, powder horn attached (riveted) to shooting bag strap. Possibles in a bag hanging on my belt along with a couple of knives, skinning and gutting, that also serve as knives for food preparation and eating. Possibles is a term that means, near as I can tell, and this is what I mean, anything you carry that makes it possible to survive, like flint and steel, tinder, bees wax candle, burning glass (magnifying glass). (This doesn't include motorhome, kitchen sink, microwave, dried beer, etc.:). You need to put your gear together and try it out. Put it all on at home and walk around with it. Your wife and other inhabitants of your abode will think you're nuts if they already don't, but that's OK. You'll know pretty quick what will not work on a long trek. If things are banging you in the knees or back or anywhere else, think about three miles down the trail when said banging has hit target a few hundred times. It will get sore real quick. Get everything snug. Thanks again for your patience. I have the patience, just not the ability to type fast. Again, everything I said works for me. It may take you years to get it completely right for you. I'm almost half a century old and still learning, thank God. I know the California mountains and desert pretty well. What is your intended route? E-mail me off list if you would like - carpentersa5k@earthlink.net BTW - Don't forget about portable soup and coffee for your trek. Good on cold mornings and evenings. Carp - ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 1/9/2004 12:46:27 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack??

Carp,

I am in Southern California.  Thanks for the insights.  Excuse my ignorance of terminology and gear but when you say that you carried everything in a blanket roll.  What was carried in the blanket roll (extra clothing, food, corn boiler, cup, spoon)?  How is the blanket roll constructed?  Is it like as follows: 1) lay out your ground cloth, 2) lay your blanket(s) on top, 3) fold blanket in half length wise 4) lay all of the items to be carried on the blanket evenly, 5) roll the blanket over the contents and 6) fold the rolled blanket in half so that the two ends meet and tie them together with some rope or straps.  How is it carried then (over the head and one arm that that it is diagonal across your body?  Sorry to be so anal retentive but I am really trying to understand what how to do this.
That's it.  I put anything flat, dried meat and corn in cloth bags, long underwear, extra pair socks,  whatever else, in the blanket roll and tie it with four straps either hemp or leather.  Then I tie a shoulder strap and just as you said, sling it over my shoulder so it lay diagonally across my back.   I tie bulky items to the outside.  You  don't want them to flop around cause this will bug the hell out of you while hiking and it may make noise.
 
A great ground cloth can be found, if you are in So Cal, at a good gardeners shop where real Japanese gardeners buy their supplies.  They use a cotton duck tarp to gather grass and leaves and it is the perfect size for a ground tarp.  Serves the period too (some of the AMM guys can weigh in on that), no grommets just cotton duck with a hem on the perimeter.  You can treat it with linseed oil, but be careful of that.  Many natural oils will support/cause spontaneous combustion. After treatment you need to make sure it is completely dry.  I believe this subject (oiled cloth) has been on the discussion list in the past.
 

Finally, you said that you also carry your "possibles".  Is this just a separate bag worn over one shoulder or across your chest as with a shooting bag.  What are "possibles"?
 
Yes, I carry minimal shooting accessories in a over the shoulder shooting bag, powder horn attached (riveted) to shooting bag strap.  Possibles in a bag hanging on my belt along with a couple of knives, skinning and gutting, that also serve as knives for food preparation and eating.  Possibles is a term that means, near as I can tell, and this is what I mean, anything you carry that makes it possible to survive, like flint and steel, tinder, bees wax candle, burning glass (magnifying glass).  (This doesn't include motorhome, kitchen sink, microwave, dried beer, etc.:).
You need to put your gear together and try it out.  Put it all on at home and walk around with it.  Your wife and other inhabitants of your abode will think you're nuts if they already don't, but that's OK.  You'll know pretty quick what will not work on a long trek.  If things are banging you in the knees or back or anywhere else, think about three miles down the trail when said banging has hit target a few hundred times.  It will get sore real quick.  Get everything snug.


Thanks again for your patience.
 
I have the patience, just not the ability to type fast.  Again, everything I said works for me.  It may take you years to get it completely right for you.  I'm almost half a century old and still learning, thank God.
 
I know the California mountains and desert pretty well. What is your intended route?  E-mail me off list if you would like - carpentersa5k@earthlink.net
 
BTW - Don't forget about portable soup and coffee for your trek.  Good on cold mornings and evenings.
 
Carp
- ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:37:09 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? - --part1_1a3.1f12f630.2d3040c5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/8/04 7:48:06 PM, MunevarL@aol.com writes: > I am planning a 3-day jaunt 20 miles for the end of March and I would like > advice on how to carry my gear utilizing mountain man era historically > correct method. > > Lou, If your like me, and don't have a horse, or dog, to carry your stuff, then a pack is the one way of getting your gear from here to there. Here's a jpg of a simple frame I made out of willow... pack.jpg (JG Image, 800x600 pixels) http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pack.jpg The cross pieces are inlet to the uprights, glued and lashed with rawhide... and strong enough the survive a couple of trips on the airlines. The shoulder straps (not shown) are attached to the top and bottom cross pieces. I also hand sewed a canvas bag with loops on the top, and ties on the bottom to drop over the fame... The frame is about 15" wide, and 32" long. Is it "period correct".... probably not, but it's not too much of a stretch either. Hope this helps, Magpie - --part1_1a3.1f12f630.2d3040c5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 1/8/04 7:48:06 PM, MunevarL@aol.com writes:


I am planning a 3-day= jaunt 20 miles for the end of March and I would like advice on how to carry= my gear utilizing mountain man era historically correct method.

Lou,

If your like me, and don't have a horse, or dog, to carry your stuff, then a= pack is the one way of getting your gear from here to there. Here's a jpg o= f a simple frame I made out of willow...
pack.jpg (JG Image,= 800x600 pixels)    http://members.aol.com/swcushi= ng/pack.jpg

The cross pieces are inlet to the uprights, glued and lashed with rawhide...= and strong enough the survive a couple of trips on the airlines. The should= er straps (not shown) are attached to the top and bottom cross pieces. I als= o hand sewed a canvas bag with loops on the top, and ties on the bottom to d= rop over the fame... The frame is about 15" wide, and 32" long.

Is it "period correct".... probably not, but it's not too much of a stretch=20= either.

Hope this helps,
Magpie
 - --part1_1a3.1f12f630.2d3040c5_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:09:18 -0800 From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Lou, Got a moment so thought I'd dive in here. You've already gotten some good ideas so there isn't much more I can add but I'll say this. If you have room for it, you'll take it. So the smallest way of carrying stuff the better. I can't say I travel as far on foot as many do but what distance I can make, has made me a believer in going very light and without a lot of junk. I really wonder if you need to carry 2 or 3 gallons of water which I think weighs around 8.1 lb per gallon so if that's correct your talking 16 to 24 lbs in water just to start. Most of the guys I've talked to who do a lot of traveling on foot going pc don't carry any water and they have a problem keeping their pack/gear down to 25 lbs. I know I do. Of course that depends on time of year and how much bed and clothing you need to keep warm. But you got to have some rations and at least something to cook in or heat up some water for tea. Your blankets will run about 4/5 lbs each I think. A small sack of dry food stuffs like corn meal, oats, dry fruit, jerky, etc. can run a couple pounds at the least and will only be the lightest if you measure out just exactly what you will consume and take not much more for backup. That's still going to go a few pounds. As to pc ways to pack it? The bed roll using a cross the chest tump line goes way back. it can be uncomfortable if carried too far and is too heavy but it goes on and comes off quick and is simple to use and make up. The cloth knapsack goes way back as does the side hung haversack. It can be more comfortable to wear but not if you make it big and load it down. I think you will find a pack basket to carry too much stuff and be a bit uncomfortable but that is my take. I think they were intended for short trips across a portage and an easy way to keep stuff organized but you don't need a lot of stuff. A pack frame of some sort can help if your carrying a heavy load, that's for sure. And they aren't difficult to make with rawhide and proper sized sticks. I presently use a knap sack that will hold a quart corn boiler, a very small skillet, a sack of dried food about the size of a foot ball, some odds and ends like twine and a candle or two, etc. I keep my dry cloths rolled up in my bed roll which in temperate weather is a couple Whitney blankets at the most, in summer it's a 4 point Whitney and a half blanket. And that roll will hold an extra pair of socks, mocs and a shirt. Maybe a small sack of dry tinder. I tie the bed roll under the knap sack and do not use a frame. It works fairly well. But don't worry about what we carry, think about what you can't live without. Make a list of stuff you just have to carry, figure out whether it will roll up in to a bed roll/tumpline rig or needs an extra knapsack/haversack, etc. Be ruthless on what you leave behind. You really only need one knife, you don't need a hatchet, you can drink out of your corn boiler and don't need that if you live on dry foods like jerky and parched corn, dried fruit. You don't need to carry water if you will be coming to water that just needs cleaning up. AquaPur makes a two tablet water purification system that will purify 50 quarts of water using the tablets in two small insulin sized bottles, about the size of your thumb. And the water tastes fine, no chlorine taste. You just have to have something to mix it in. If it's murky you can settle out the particulates if you have the container to do that in or strain out the big stuff through your silk scarf, etc. then throw in the water purification tables. Probably a good idea to settle out or prestrain water your going to run through a pump too. You don't need 20 rounds and bar lead and etc. for three days no more than you need food for a week. Hopefully this was of help in getting you to thinking about what you want to take and how. Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #1294 ******************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.