From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #164 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, November 1 1998 Volume 01 : Number 164 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:28:47 -0800 From: "Munroe Crutchley" Subject: MtMan-List: New member I am a new subscriber to the list and am also very interested in the fur trade era. I haven't gotten into buckskinning yet, but I can feel the bug starting to bite. I work as an inspector for Public Works in the county where I live, and I work part time as a math tutor at the local community college. I was a muzzleloader over 20 years ago back east, I live in Oregon now and am getting back into the sport. I spent the past year building a rifle (Hawken replica) from scratch. I was surprised by how much I remembered from my youth about building rifles! I learned it all from Ron Griffie in Maryland; some of you may have heard of him. Anyway, the Hawken turned out just the way I had hoped and shoots fine (now, if I can meet up with an elk...). I'd like to toss out a question: When I think about those boys whose life depended on their rifle going off whenever they pulled the trigger, I wonder how long they would carry a load in the barrel. It seems like with dampness and all they would want to empty her out every now and then just so they could put in a fresh load. I reckon we could all speculate about this (please do), but does anyone know of any old writings that discussed such things? Munroe Crutchley Grants Pass, OR rocrutch@cdsnet.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:41:06 -0800 From: Corey Tretteen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendevous Schedule I kinda would like to know the same thing. In the washington, oregon, idaho area. >>> "Ron" 10/28 9:41 PM >>> Let us know what state you are in and someone will post a website or suggestions for that states info. YMOS Lonewolf - ---------- > From: Ladygirl98@aol.com > To: hist_text@xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: Rendevous Schedule > Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 11:48 PM > > It has been a few years since my husband and myself have been to a Rendevous. > We would like to know if you still keep a schedule of them. If so please e- > mail at your convinence. > Thanking you in advance. > Ladygirl98 > ! ! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:40:32 -0500 From: David Card Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tinning/"Oakum" Question for John or anyone else... I read somewhere that oakum is a lef= tover = from making hemp fabric - like tow is to linen. Is this the same stuff? > The old recipes and instructions I've seen call for using wads & swabs = made of > "oakum" -- it should still be available from a plumbing supply house --= if not > try marine suppliers to wooden boat builders. > > John... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:53:10 -0500 From: David Card Subject: re: MtMan-List: Bees wax For future reference, I've gotten beeswax from James Townsend, one of my = favorite sources of "stuff". It's $7 a pound - I don't know if that's = good or bad. If I was to get some cheap or free from a bee keeper, I'd go for it. I'd melt it, and strain it through cheese cloth to get out = the bee parts &c. - -David- p.s. oh yeah... jastown@halcyon.com 1-800-338-1665 www.jastown.com (cool site - I think their whole catalog is here plus stuff that's not in the catalog) = > I about to get some bees wax from a bee keeper. I've looked everywhere = and this is all I could find. = > He says its in a bucket. How do I clean this? > I'm going to use it on some restoration and to make patch lube. Thanks = for all suggestions. > BrokenJaw = ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:50:15 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rubber ponchos Allen, Is it kosher to use my Civil War period rubber poncho with its grommets for 1830s-40s fur trade era, or do grommets come in a bit later? Is there any good information on how rubber ponchos were made during the rendezvous period, specifically, how the headhole was cut and configured? HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:02:40 -0800 From: Chris Sega Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old CVA Pistols Just got old foxes second message and in reply, Althought the value of learning to debreach etc. is valuable, I am more interested in the basics of gunsmithing. I thought going the do it yourself route on making the smoothbore might be fun but, I think that another better route would be to finish a kit, using quality parts and working up from a blank stock, lock and barrel to a finished gun. I ain't duckin out on the learnin, but using books and, My present custom gun as an example, and the help of friends who know more, I believe I'll have a better experience . A kit, I think, is a good learnin tool. Any thoughts? Your most disobediant and onry' hivernant. Sega ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:17:10 -0600 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tinning/"Oakum" Traditionally oakum was made by picking the fibers apart in old ropes. When it wasn't much good as a rope any more it was made into oakum. So it was hemp.= =20 What you get at a plumbing or marine supplier today may be entirely= different. John... At 08:40 AM 10/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >Question for John or anyone else...=A0 I read somewhere that oakum is a leftover >from making hemp fabric - like tow is to linen.=A0 Is this the same stuff? > > > >> The old recipes and instructions I've seen call for using wads & swabs= made of >> "oakum" -- it should still be available from a plumbing supply house --= if not >> try marine suppliers to wooden boat builders. >> >> John... >=20 John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< mail to: =20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:19:11 +0100 From: Allen Chronister Subject: MtMan-List: Henry Crawford: Ponchos Henry: Like I said in the other message, I do not have any information on whether rubber ponchos existed much before the Civil War, or if they did, how they were configured. Don't recall info on when the Army started using them. I do know, like I said before, that rubberized fabric was being produced at least in England in the early 1820s and was being manufactured into garments--ie rain coats--by Mr. MacIntosh, which is why the Brits still call raincoats "Macs." So, a rubberized fabric poncho for a pre-1840 setting is something that was possible, but I can't prove or disprove it, much less tell you what it would look like. Sorry. For what its worth, which may not be much, I don't use one. Allen Chronister ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:06:49 -0800 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tinning/"Oakum" David, Interesting question. It is my 'belief' that whatever oakum is made of, it is the original product versus a by-product. It may very well be the same material as tow,( i.e. hemp), only treated with extra materials to make it suitable for another purpose, whether that be to dam the flow of plumbers lead or caulk the seams between ship planking. I mean to try it when tinning a copper pot but have not had time to find a suitable quantity. The steel wool that I have used in the past works but it picks up quit a bit of the tinning agent which is thus lost or hard to recover. I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' David Card wrote: > Question for John or anyone else... I read somewhere that oakum is a leftover > from making hemp fabric - like tow is to linen. Is this the same stuff? > > > The old recipes and instructions I've seen call for using wads & swabs made of > > "oakum" -- it should still be available from a plumbing supply house -- if not > > try marine suppliers to wooden boat builders. > > > > John... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:27:24 EST From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tinning/"Oakum" from the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary oa*kum (noun) [Middle English okum, from Old English acumba tow, from a- (separative & perfective prefix) + -cumba (akin to Old English camb comb) -- more at ABIDE] First appeared 15th Century : loosely twisted hemp or jute fiber impregnated with tar or a tar derivative and used in caulking seams and packing joints ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:44:15 -0600 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rubber manga's Henry, I have no information about the appropriateness of a poncho, I do have some= on grommets. Plain rubberized tarps may have been available. =20 If I remember right Jeff Hengesbaugh was the first to bring mangas up from Mexico for the buckskin trade back in the seventies. They didn't have ties= or grommets. To cut a T shape head hole in the middle of a small tarp seems= like something someone would have done. Ties could be easily added to the= corners and edges. The two piece stamped grommets we are familiar with today are not= appropriate. Grommets were not unknown during the period but would be a simple wood, bone or metal ring tightly whip-stitched onto the canvas (lashed like a buttonhole stitch around the entire ring). I don't research later period but would be very suspicious of modern= grommets being correct for Civil War. John... At 09:00 AM 10/27/98 -0600, you wrote: >What's a rubber manga? > >HBC > >>I have two rubber manga's. What is the history of these, when were they >>available? Were they at any rendevous? My is starting to dry out, can any >>type of repair work for this. I am considering using rubber latex to paint >>over the cracks. >>Thanks in advance >>Joe >> >>Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery >>Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440 >>Write for custom tanning prices >>We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and >>hair on robes >>Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings,= baskets >>check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka > >***************************************** >Henry B. Crawford=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Curator of History >mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu=A0=A0=A0=A0 Museum of Texas Tech University >806/742-2442=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Box 43191 >FAX 742-1136=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Lubbock, TX=A0 79409-3191 >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum >******=A0 Living History . . . Because it's there!=A0 ******* >=20 John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< mail to: =20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:02:24 -0600 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tinning/"Oakum" At 08:06 AM 10/30/98 -0800, you wrote: >David, ... The steel wool that I have used in the past works >but it picks up quit a bit of the tinning agent which is thus lost or hard= to >recover. I remain.... > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > If Oakum is used as the wiper it should be fairly easy to recover any excess tin held in the fibers by burning off the hemp under high heat. Separating iron from tin when used with steel wool would be much more difficult. John... John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< mail to: =20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:52:18 -0600 From: hawknest4@juno.com (michael pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old CVA Pistols danny caywood just came out with a beautiful cannon barrel flint pistol give him a call he can furnish it in kit form---beautiful example of the time period and very good lock--- =+= HAWK Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 e-mail: hawknest4@juno.com On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:02:40 -0800 Chris Sega writes: >Just got old foxes second message and in reply, Althought the value of >learning >to debreach etc. is valuable, I am more interested in the basics of >gunsmithing. >I thought going the do it yourself route on making the smoothbore >might be fun >but, I think that another better route would be to finish a kit, using >quality >parts and working up from a blank stock, lock and barrel to a finished >gun. I >ain't duckin out on the learnin, but using books and, My present >custom gun as an >example, and the help of friends who know more, I believe I'll have a >better >experience . A kit, I think, is a good learnin tool. Any thoughts? > >Your most disobediant and onry' hivernant. >Sega > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:45:40 -0600 From: hawknest4@juno.com (michael pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old CVA Pistols you made some darn good points---concure with the learning curves but i guess i try to always look at the quality and end product that i build and if you start with poor quality you will normally end with poor quality---a person will take more pains with something that he has spent hard earned bucks on---and he knows it is of good quality---- =+= HAWK Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 e-mail: hawknest4@juno.com On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:32:43 EST ThisOldFox@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 98-10-29 10:41:15 EST, you write: > >> you gave him a lot of good info--and concure it can be done---think >you >> should sit back and look----try the common sense approach--- at >just >> getting a new barrel made by a barrel make > >Hawk, >I agree that buying a new barrel might be cheaper, but how's a young >man going >to acquire any skills of the trade by taking the easy way out. > >Look at all the things involved in making that little 5" barrel from a >disposable part that is no loss if he screws up. He has only hand >tools to >work with and the experience in tool control in invaluable. He'll >learn: >1. How to debreach an old barrel. >2. How to drill a straight hole in a tube. >3. How to polish the inside of a bore. >4. How to make his own touch-hole liner. >5. Some hand filing techniques >6. Probably other stuff too. > >Even if he screws it up, the experience is probably worth more than >the $40 he >might pay for a new barrel. > >OldFox > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:56:57 -0600 From: hawknest4@juno.com (michael pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old CVA Pistols rifle or pistol quality is 85% and the shooters ability is the other 15% if the gun cant shoot as well as the holder it dont make a bit of difference---IF A GUN BARREL WILL ONLY HOLD 6 INCHES THEN THE SHOOTER CANT MAKE IT SHOOT ANY TIGHTER-----you are going to mis your mark---ENOUGH SAID----QUALITY IS QUALITY AND JUNK IS JUNK---- =+= HAWK Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 e-mail: hawknest4@juno.com On Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:00:59 -0800 (PST) Sam Keller writes: > >I totally agree with you, we own 2 CVA rifles and 1 pistol. I can >shoot as well with these as I can with the Custom Built Rifle I owned >years ago, which had a Douglas Barrel. It ain't how much you can pour >into yore gun (money wise), but how well you can shoot that makes the >difference. > > > >---"Henry B. Crawford" wrote: >> >> Since I started this discussion, I'd better jump in here. I must >have been >> darn lucky. I've been shooting my CVA mountain rifle for 11 years >with no >> problems. Even took a deer with it. >> >> I must beg to differ with my colleagues on CVA quality. The two CVA >guns I >> have are not junk. I am sorry to offend, but both turned out to be >good >> shooters. Maybe my standards are not as high, or I just have a way >with >> "inferior" guns. It's like taking a stray dog and turning him into >a >> champion. All it takes is work. >> >> As for the pistol, I took it apart, cleaned and oiled everything, >check all >> parts for signs of fatigue (always do that when you buy a used >firearm) and >> took it out for a trial shoot over the weekend. I used a low charge >of 15 >> grains of 2F without a bullet to test ignition a couple of times, >then the >> same thing with 25 grains. Next I cleaned it out and used 25 grains >with a >> patched ball, and again it worked fine. I fired two more times with >> patched balls and no problems. Then I took it completely apart and >checked >> all parts again. >> >> I wasn't target shooting, per se. I was firing at a small >prickly-pear >> cactus and hit it twice. It performed ok. Just think what I can do >after >> I set the sights and practice. We all know that pistols don't >generally >> hit much beyond 30-40 feet, so I wasn't looking for this one to >perform >> great first time out. >> >> The moral is treat your guns right and they'll treat you right. >Anyone can >> shoot well with a superior rifle, but the person that can take a >mediocre >> firearm and work with it to make it perform well, is no slouch >either. If >> it works for you, that's all that matters. And CVA guns (so far) >work for >> me. >> >> BTW, among my fur trade era guns I have a Navy Arms flinter, which >also >> shoots well. >> >> Cheers, >> HBC >> >> ***************************************** >> Henry B. Crawford Curator of History >> mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University >> 806/742-2442 Box 43191 >> FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 >> WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum >> ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* >> >> > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 20:00:32 -0800 From: j2hearts@juno.com (John C Funk) Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Mt man-List: rubber ponchos Alan, As usual, your information is invaluable and knowledge abounds. However, I fear that certain generalizations may prove misleading to the novice amongst us. The fact that "vulcanized'" cloth/rubber garments existed within the fur trade period doesn't mean that yellow crossing guard rain coats and goulashes are acceptable at various events replicating fur trade activity. My point is that a more definitive response on that subject matter is earnestly needed, ie. what sort of fabric was rubberized? What kind of "rubber" was used? Where did it come from? What colour was the eventual product? Was it sold as premade garments and/or sold as bulk sheeting?..........and so on. What was "India rubber"? I've seen what is sold by Panther and seriously wonder if this is a true replication of a period product. I tend to think that vulcanization in its infancy probable consisted of a gum type rubber, ill refined and a bit bulky. Could be totally wrong. Any further incites on the particulars of this subject? John Funk ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 20:14:01 -0700 From: "Ron" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendevous Schedule Hello Corey, Look at Lee Newbill's page Buckskins and Blackpowder http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186 YMOS, Lonewolf - ---------- > From: Corey Tretteen > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendevous Schedule > Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 12:41 AM > > I kinda would like to know the same thing. In the washington, oregon, idaho area. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:00:31 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mt man-List: rubber ponchos John, Sam at Panther is a salesman, like many of us in the trade, he provides a good product for the money, but on many of his items he tries to produce = an item as close as possible - at a fair price. The problem is to make that item exactly like an original sometimes drive= s the cost up so high that only a few will spend the money for it. So is th= e case with many of the items available today to the various time frames, n= ot everyone can afford a real birch bark canoe but can make over a modern on= e to look close. Many of the suppliers are using the Eastern manufacturers from India and East Asia to produce tin, copper, iron, etc. items in an attempt to keep costs down and retail sales up. Look at the wide spread on knives, from a few dollars for one of an eastern country to many many dollars for a cust= om knife made in the USA. For correct period items we have to pay more and you may want to check wi= th some of the high dollar dealers that deal in correctness like: C & D Jarnagin, Co. P.O. Box 1860 Corinth, MS 38834 < http://www.jamagininco.com > G. Gedney Godwin, Inc. PO Box 100 Valley Forge, PA 19481 Ph (610) 783-0670 < http://gggodwin.com/ > Have done business with these gentlemen for years and if they don't have = a correct rubber poncho for your time frame, they'll know who does. Good Luck, Buck Conner dba/ Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. < http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ > "Uno qui=E9n negocia" Spanish =93Unqui commerce=94 French "One who t= rades" English _______________________________________ - -----Original Message----- From: John C Funk To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 10:07 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Mt man-List: rubber ponchos >Alan, > >As usual, your information is invaluable and knowledge abounds. >However, I fear that certain generalizations may prove misleading to the >novice amongst us. The fact that "vulcanized'" cloth/rubber garments >existed within the fur trade period doesn't mean that yellow crossing >guard rain coats and goulashes are acceptable at various events >replicating fur trade activity. My point is that a more definitive >response on that subject matter is earnestly needed, ie. what sort of >fabric was rubberized? What kind of "rubber" was used? Where did it >come from? What colour was the eventual product? >Was it sold as premade garments and/or sold as bulk >sheeting?..........and so on. What was "India rubber"? > >I've seen what is sold by Panther and seriously wonder if this is a true >replication of a period product. I tend to think that vulcanization in >its infancy probable consisted of a gum type rubber, ill refined and a >bit bulky. Could be totally wrong. > >Any further incites on the particulars of this subject? > >John Funk > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:52:46 -0800 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tinning/"Oakum" John, My point exactly. I have burned off the steel wool and knocked out most of the tinning agent but the oakum may work much better. When I can get some I will try it. BTW, Tom and I were trying to tin a copper pot he had made of .011 thick copper. I had trouble getting the tin to 'take' on the initial try so Tom cleaned the pot out a bit and re fluxed. I put the thing back on my propane stove and proceeded to burn a big hole in the bottom. The other pots I've made were of .022 thickness and did not give that problem. Consider this a warning to those playing around with this craft. Do not use really thin copper or brass lest you loose the vessel to the goddess Pele! John Kramer wrote: ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:03:16 -0800 From: Dale Nelson Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mt man-List: rubber ponchos John C Funk wrote: > > What was "India rubber"? Narcissa says, "Our table is the ground, our tablecloth is an Indian rubber cloth used when it rains as a cloak." This is in a letter written June 4th, 1836 on the Platte and which I got from "Rocky Mountain Rendezous" by Fred Gowans. Some place she also mentions gutta-percha cloth. My 1911 Websters Dictionary says gutta-percha is "a reddish-brown horn-like substance; the inspissated juice of the gutta-percha tree (Isonandra gutta) of the Malay Archipelago." I looked up inspissated, which is, "To thicken by boiling or evaporation." Is this what we would call a rubber tree? Is gutta-percha cloth and Indian rubber cloth the same thing? or is it two different types of water proof cloth? They also had oil cloth which is canvass treated with linseed oil? except when I was a kid -- born 100 years after 1836, at least my family called oil cloth a rubber coated cloth that was spread on the ground when we went on a picnic? John Kramer was did a post on grommets. Canvass was used for the engines of ships before Christ was born. Sail makers whip stiched grommets in sails for centuries, and I'd bet that when metal grommets were first used some sailor was trying to figure a way to make a sail last longer. I'd also bet that the first use of India rubber cloth was at sea, and perhaps a good place to start research on this type of thing would be the Mystic Seaport museum in New England. Sorry, I don't remember the state or town where it's located, but someone out there should know. One last thing on grommets. I met a guy that located a site of a ferry and store that was pre civil war/gold rush era. This doesn't prove a thing, but it's something to think about. I amongst the artifacts that he found using his metal detector was a pattern of brass grommets that suggested that a canvass tarp had laid on the ground and rotted away. Somebody could have camped there years later, and left the tarp, but it's something to think about. DN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:33:17 -0800 From: Matt and Sarah Mitchell Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendevous Schedule >> From: Corey Tretteen >> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendevous Schedule >> Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 12:41 AM >> >> I kinda would like to know the same thing. In the washington, oregon, >idaho area. > > Corey, Here is another source. http://eddie.grrtech.com/rendezvous/calendar/ "Pockets" A.K.A. Matt Mitchell Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders Moscow, Idaho travel@turbonet.com "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist---" General John B. Sedgwick's last words, 1864 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:22:58 EST From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rubber ponchos Joe, If you have access to back issues of "Overland Journal," the magazine of the Oregon-California Trail Association, Vol. 14, Num. 1, Spring 1996, has an article titlted "India Rubber Kept Them Dry," by Jacqueline Williams. While its focus is primarily the Oregon Trail, it provides good info on pre-Civil War uses of India rubber. Its bibliography includes a book by Ralph F. Wolf, "India Rubber Man; The Story of Charles Goodyear," published by Caxton Printers in Caldwell, ID, in 1939. That may be another source for you. The article states there was a "veritable rubber boom" in the US during the 1830s. Of course it was only the beginnings of real research and experimentatin to make rubber useable. Vulcanization wasn't discovered unitil 1839 so it was after that when most uses were developed. Articles such as coats, ponchos, capes, leggins, water pails, mittens, maps, balls, Haversacks, pants, caps, syringes, suspenders, water tanks, saddle bags, blankets, shoes, horse covers, mattress covers, teething rings, and elastics are all mentioned. There is a good photo of an India rubber rain coat recovered in 1968 from the cargo of the steamboat "Bertrand," which sank April 1, 1865, on its way to Fort Benton in Montana territory. Jim Hardee, AMM#1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com If you can't find the article, let me know, I'd be happy to mail you a photo copy. Back issues are available from OCTA at P.O. Box 1019, Independence, MO 64051-0519. (816)252-2276. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:21:57 -0500 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: Cap to Flint conversion As y'all may remember, I was tryin to convert a Traditions Hawken to a flinter.... Traditions said it couldn't be done, but I done did it... heh!! Shoots great and sparks nice too... Hey.. Traditions... ppppppffffffffttttttttt...... :)) NEVER tell me something can't be done... cause this ol' Navy Chief will prove you wrong... Thanks List Members for all the help and advise y'all sent me... really came in handy, and thanks THUNDER RIDGE MUZZLE LOADING for the parts... SeanBear aka Addison Miller http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Geyser/3216 (Ronnyvous) Addison Miller ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #164 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. 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