From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #211 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, January 5 1999 Volume 01 : Number 211 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:04:51 -0800 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question Phyllis and Don, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > We have been off the list for a few days, so hope I don't sound like an > idiot, but what is the description of a guernsey frock. Not familiar with > the name. We are still trying to answer that one too. In a general way it seems to be a knitted sweater like pullover garment with long sleeves and buttons a few inches down the front to facilitate the putting on and the taking off. There is at least one of what I think we are talking about pictured in a contemporary painting of a mountain man do by (I think) Miller. Other than that I am as much in the dark as you. They did exist though, and were probably not uncommon. > > > Water - It would be the height of stupidity to try to drink outdoors > water, especially here in Colorado. Either take it with you or filter it. > Anybody that wants to argue that one can pay the emergency room bill I generally take enough water to drink if I can carry it in a boat or in a truck or on a horse. When I go otherwise (which is most of the time) I do spend a good portion of camp time managing my water supply. Before bed, I boil enough water to refill my canteen so I have clean water in the morning. Any drinking in the morning is from water boiled on the morning fire for coffee or tea (usually tea). I try to drink as much of the previous nights canteen in the morning as possible to hydrate the body. I then will boil up enough water to refill the canteen for the day. If there is a fire at noon, I boil water for tea. That general regimen is practiced round the clock. You need all the fluids you can get and it does need to be relatively safe. Depending on the source, I have been known to drink untreated water but with care. > .Food - We can't go camping five or six times a year and live off the > land. We have too many laws and anybody that waznts to argue this one can pay > the fine. There are several good articles in BOB series on period trail foods. You can haul a lot of jerked meat, rice, corn meal, etc. with a very few spices to get you by for quit a long time. there are wild edibles that can be learned to give a bit of variety. Generally your diet is gona be monotonous for a while and we usually hit the first greasy spoon we come to on the way home. Many of us try to trek where and when we can hunt or fish. But it surely isn't necessary to kill a cow every day to do quit well. (I 'm sure that is not what you meant). > Medicines - I really can't see someone leaving his insulin at home for a > week just to be more authentic. My good friend "Digger" John has carried his insulin in a cute little leather box for years so he can "shoot up" each morning. I have a small tin of pills that keep me eating salty bacon. Haven't buried anyone yet. > The one for me that is questionable is winter sleeping. I know that the > original mountain men chopped off branches to put under their beds to > insulate them from the ground. I would certainly not recommend doing that > these days. So what would be a reasonable alternative? The first thing is to get past the idea you have to have down bags and a foam pad to camp in the winter. Friends in Northern Idaho and NW Montana do their "snow shoe" in January in 20 below temps. They camp in sage brush flats so there are no fir bows to cut or hardwood leaves to rake into a bed. The lucky ones usually have a brain tanned buffalo rob to wrap up in. All will have at least one good wool blanket. The ones that sleep warm will put a couple blankets or a rob on the ground and two blankets or a rob over the top and sleep two to four bodies to the pile. They share body warmth! If you are alone, you are not making that big an impact on the forest to find a cozy little cove under a fir and relieve the limb bound trees of a few bows to get you off the ground. Then sleep in everything you wore during the evening around the fire that it took to keep you warm just away from the fire. If you are dressed properly and have a warm head covering with dry warm feet and your bed roll wrapped up in an oil cloth, you should be fine. If not, you will wake up and rekindle the fire for a while. So you don't do this all winter, just for a few days and nights. But you can do it. > So for me, yes we do have to make compromises. No mor that we have to, > keep them under wraps as much as possible and only when we aabsolutely have > to. > Don Keas There may be fellows out there that don't have to make any compromises. You and I surely aren't one of them. But the fun of this is in pushing the edge of the envelope. Leave the parts of the 20th Century at home that you don't really need. I remain....... YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 17:29:48 +0100 From: Allen Chronister Subject: MtMan-List: winter sleeping Capt Lahti is right about us tough guys up here in Montana sleeping out in the snow with only period gear when its well below zero. Can't say that its always warm and cozy, but you can certainly get by, especially if you are as tough as we. Anyhow, it is important (I have leared from experience) to get something between your sleeping envelope and the snow/ground. A thick layer of boughs is great, but if you cannot do that, dry grass/weeds, sage, and small willows work too. One of our favorite cold fighters up here are hot rocks. We always try to gather extra rocks and heat them by the fire. Then just before bed put them into your bedroll. Usually a rock about the size of a loaf of bread is best. The smaller the rock the quicker it looses heat. If it is REALLY cold I have a rock or rocks at my feed, at my gut and up by my head. Maybe that is overkill but it sure feels good. I usually pack along several cloth (like ticking) bags of a haversack size to put the rocks in. This is especially helpful if you can only find smaller rocks, and it keeps your bedding somewhat cleaner. Wool or leather bags are not recommended because the rocks will burn through them too easily (or permanently fry them in the case of leather). Sometimes you have to let a rock cool down some before it is safe to handle (leather gloves are very helpful) and once in a long while you get an exploder just like in any fire ring. We gauge the length and coldness of the night by how many times you have to "re-rock"--ie, roll out the cold rocks and rumage around the fire for more hot ones. A three-rock night is a long, cold one. If you anticipate such a thing, then stockpile your additional rocks by the fire where they will stay warm and you can reach them without having to get up. Hope this helps. Allen Chronister ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:22:31 -0600 From: "yellow rose/pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: drinking the wild water Matt, I was a dairy farmer for twenty years. I can tell you with certainty that there are water born diseases which can very easily be transimitted from cattle to humans through the water. The one that comes to mind first [which I can't spell completely] is LEPTO. There are many different strains of this disease. I am not qualified to tell you all there is about these diseases, but rest assured they are nasty. Also if you are in a area where there is runoff from other ag operations, be aware that there could be chemicals in the water that could have an accumulative effect. I am not in any way slamming the Farmers of this country, but 30 or 40 years ago there were chemicals being sold and used that were supposed to be perfectly safe. Most of what was being used back then has since been found to be unsafe and banned from sale. Some of these chemicals are still in the ground and can leach out from time to time . I guess what I'm trying to say is, BE CAREFUL. You only have one body so take care of it. F.W.I.W. Pendleton - ---------- > From: Matt Richards > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: drinking the wild water > Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 12:29 PM > > I just wanted to share a few thoughts on drinking wild water without > purifiers, boiling or the like, but straight from the stream...... > > I've been drinking creek water almost exclusively for the past 11 years, > whether at home or traveling in the woods. I'm definitely concious of what > and where I'm drinking but if it seems like a reasonably clean mtn stream, I > drink up.....and I've never had any problems except an occasional runny > crap. My understanding is that some people are far more or less susceptible > to giardia and such...and I think I'm on the less side. > > I know a lot of folks like me who continue to drink wild water despite all > the warnings...and don't have any problems. Most of us seem to agree that > being careful not to drink chlorinated water is crucial. Chlorinated water > kills your beneficial bacteria that help you defend against giardia and > other contaminants. > > I always try to drink upstream from beaver (though am sometimes surprised to > find them above), and don't worry much about free range cattle (even though > they do spread giardia), though given the choice I choose a spring if I'm in > cattle country. Always go for the smallest creek or spring around, and don't > drink from rivers. > > If you are worried about it, I'd encourage you to continue using filters or > hauling in water, giardia really sucks as far as I can tell. If you do go > for it, ease your way in. Drink creek water from a known to be good creek > for a while to help build up your beneficial bacteria.....and work your way > in from there. > > There ain't too much more satisfying then stickin your face in a creek and > taking a long draught..... > > Matt Richards > www.braintan.com > > > ------------------------------ Date: 04 Jan 99 20:23:29 -0700 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question Roger - Thanks for the info on the frock. As for the water, I carry as much as I can also. I have had the bugs to get rid of and it wasn't fun. As for foods, I too carry the ones you mention and more. What I wqas getting at is you can't have fresh meat all the time, even tho we usually take some smoked or salted meats(pork) when on our week long canoe trips. As for cold weather, the Brothers here in Colorado always camp on President's Day weekend, in the mountains at 9 or 10,000 feet and it is cold. We don';t drink a toast ;to slick willie either. Anyway, we usually get by ok because we do this type of camping quite a bit. But, others may not get the chance to do it like we do. What I was trying to say is this: I and my Brothers try to do it as correct as we can. We don't use down bags or take other short cuts if we can help it. For water and medicines I AM saying compromise is OK. As screwed up as this planet's condition is, there simply is no other way. Anyway, maybe this will give some food for thought and start some pretty good discussions. Roger Lahti wrote: >Phyllis and Don, > >Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > >> We have been off the list for a few days, so hope I don't sound like an >> idiot, but what is the description of a guernsey frock. Not familiar with >> the name. > >We are still trying to answer that one too. In a general way it seems to be a >knitted sweater like pullover garment with long sleeves and buttons a few inches >down the front to facilitate the putting on and the taking off. There is at >least >one of what I think we are talking about pictured in a contemporary >painting of a >mountain man do by (I think) Miller. Other than that I am as much in the dark as >you. They did exist though, and were probably not uncommon. > >> >> >> Water - It would be the height of stupidity to try to drink outdoors >> water, especially here in Colorado. Either take it with you or filter it. >> Anybody that wants to argue that one can pay the emergency room bill > >I generally take enough water to drink if I can carry it in a boat or in a truck >or on a horse. When I go otherwise (which is most of the time) I do spend a good >portion of camp time managing my water supply. Before bed, I boil enough >water to >refill my canteen so I have clean water in the morning. Any drinking in the >morning is from water boiled on the morning fire for coffee or tea (usually >tea). >I try to drink as much of the previous nights canteen in the morning as possible >to hydrate the body. I then will boil up enough water to refill the canteen for >the day. If there is a fire at noon, I boil water for tea. That general regimen >is practiced round the clock. You need all the fluids you can get and it >does need >to be relatively safe. Depending on the source, I have been known to drink >untreated water but with care. > >> .Food - We can't go camping five or six times a year and live off the >> land. We have too many laws and anybody that waznts to argue this one can pay >> the fine. > >There are several good articles in BOB series on period trail foods. You >can haul >a lot of jerked meat, rice, corn meal, etc. with a very few spices to get you by >for quit a long time. there are wild edibles that can be learned to give a >bit of >variety. Generally your diet is gona be monotonous for a while and we >usually hit >the first greasy spoon we come to on the way home. Many of us try to trek where >and when we can hunt or fish. But it surely isn't necessary to kill a cow every >day to do quit well. (I 'm sure that is not what you meant). > >> Medicines - I really can't see someone leaving his insulin at home for a >> week just to be more authentic. > >My good friend "Digger" John has carried his insulin in a cute little >leather box >for years so he can "shoot up" each morning. I have a small tin of pills >that keep >me eating salty bacon. Haven't buried anyone yet. > >> The one for me that is questionable is winter sleeping. I know that the >> original mountain men chopped off branches to put under their beds to >> insulate them from the ground. I would certainly not recommend doing that >> these days. So what would be a reasonable alternative? > >The first thing is to get past the idea you have to have down bags and a >foam pad >to camp in the winter. Friends in Northern Idaho and NW Montana do their "snow >shoe" in January in 20 below temps. They camp in sage brush flats so there >are no >fir bows to cut or hardwood leaves to rake into a bed. The lucky ones >usually have >a brain tanned buffalo rob to wrap up in. All will have at least one good wool >blanket. The ones that sleep warm will put a couple blankets or a rob on the >ground and two blankets or a rob over the top and sleep two to four bodies >to the >pile. They share body warmth! If you are alone, you are not making that big an >impact on the forest to find a cozy little cove under a fir and relieve the limb >bound trees of a few bows to get you off the ground. Then sleep in >everything you >wore during the evening around the fire that it took to keep you warm just away >from the fire. If you are dressed properly and have a warm head covering >with dry >warm feet and your bed roll wrapped up in an oil cloth, you should be fine. If >not, you will wake up and rekindle the fire for a while. So you don't do >this all >winter, just for a few days and nights. But you can do it. > >> So for me, yes we do have to make compromises. No mor that we have to, >> keep them under wraps as much as possible and only when we aabsolutely have >> to. >> Don Keas > >There may be fellows out there that don't have to make any compromises. You >and I >surely aren't one of them. But the fun of this is in pushing the edge of the >envelope. Leave the parts of the 20th Century at home that you don't really >need. >I remain....... > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > > > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > >Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with ESMTP > (SMTPD32-4.03) id A7E1CBC00A4; Mon, 04 Jan 1999 17:08:01 MDT >Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 0zxK0r-0006xD-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:06:21 -0700 >Received: from [207.115.153.32] (helo=mail1.mailsrvcs.net) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 0zxK0o-0006ws-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:06:18 -0700 >Received: from gte.net (1Cust126.tnt2.kennewick.wa.da.uu.net [208.252.45.126]) > by mail1.mailsrvcs.net with ESMTP id SAA11963 > for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:05:26 -0600 (CST) >Message-ID: <36915723.17D71DE7@gte.net> >Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:04:51 -0800 >From: Roger Lahti >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question >References: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >X-UIDL: 909625456 >Status: U > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 20:55:34 -0800 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question Guys, Sorry if I sounded like I thought you were new at this. I took your questions and statements in the vein of you not knowing how to do it and you obviously do. I don't think we disagree on any thing and I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 02:36:29 EST From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping In a message dated 99-01-04 19:28:23 EST, you write: << Wool or leather bags are not recommended because the rocks will burn through them too easily (or permanently fry them in the case of leather). Sometimes you have to let a rock cool down some before it is safe to handle (leather gloves are very helpful) and once in a long while you get an exploder just like in any fire ring. >> The hot rock trick definitely works! I used it a lot before I got into using primative gear. I used to wrap the rocks up in my jeans. I figured if you inlulated the rock a bit, it'd stay hot longer. The above advisory about hot rocks damaging some materials should be heeded. One realy cold night, I heated the rocks a bit hotter than normal & used more than normal so had a couple unwrapped. Next morning, my jeans were scorched & my nylon tent had 2 rock size holes in the floor. We slept warm though! I'm surprised no one's mentioned using hay or straw under the bed roll inplace of the pine boughs. Works good if available & the local rules & regulations don't object. Just plain tree leaves work well too if you have enough of 'em. When using these materials & spending more than one night, "fluff up" your "mattress" of straw, hay, or leaves each night because they'll pack down & loose both their cushioning & insulating abilities. I like to roll up my blanket(s) / bed roll about mid day, "fluff" the "mattress", & let it dry out a bit because it will definitely draw moisture which also reduces it's insulating ability. In cold weather, I add side curtins to my fly -- I can't document them , but they sure cut down on the drafts & hold in the heat from the rocks that I carefuly place so they don't touch anything. They also afford some privacy when on family type group events. I've quit wrapping the rocks since that cold night long ago in the non-period tent that wound up with ventilation in it's floor! Ok -- someone's going to say I'm defeating the purpose of the "reflector design" of the fly by closing it up & not just using a fire in front of it. True that works well -- to a point. I've already had one tent burn down around me at night, & I don't care to do that again. Because of that, I've developed kind of a fobia about going to sleep with open flames close to my canvas, so now, it's hot rocks that aren't too close to anything burnable. Another cold weather trick is to dig a trench where you're going to put your bed, put in a layer of good hot coals from the fire, cover it with about 6" of dirt. Wait about 30 min, make up your bed on top of the burried coal bed. Usualy keeps ya warm about 6 hrs if you've used enough coals. Don't skimp on the layer of dirt on top of the coals, or you'll have some uncomfortably hot spots. I've also built the fire in the trench & just scatered it out after it burned down then burried it -- works too but it's advisable to take out the big pieces of unburned wood & just use the coals. NM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 03:45:08 -0600 From: Jeff Powers Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping >Another cold weather trick is to dig a trench where you're going to >put your bed, put in a layer of good hot coals from the fire, cover >it with about 6" of dirt. Wait about 30 min, make up your bed on >top of the burried coal bed. Usualy keeps ya warm about 6 hrs if >you've used enough coals. Don't skimp on the layer of dirt on top >of the coals, or you'll have some uncomfortably hot spots. I've >also built the fire in the trench & just scatered it out after it >burned down then burried it -- works too but it's advisable to take >out the big pieces of unburned wood & just use the coals. >NM Sounds like a good idea,but it would take me 3-4 days to get a trench dug using period tools! The damn frost is now 5 feet deep 200 feet from any traffic. just think its -15 and I'm going to dig in a new manhole and associated pipe today ;-) Sure do love winter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jeff Powers,Rogue & Ne'er do Well Why do we sterilize needles for lethal injections? Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 08:35:55 -0700 From: Vic Barkin Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping Ho Boys! In addition to Boughs or leaves under my bedroll, I lay a horse blanket over them as well. In snow deep enough to trench, If you dig a two foot or more deep depression, and lay more boughs or other debris over it, you keep yourself out of the wind. Snow caves and igloos (I've built one out of snow, not ice) are good for extended camps, but take care not to work up a sweat in building them, condensation on the skin is one sure way to freeze yer ass off. On a similar note, don't kneel in the snow if you can help it. Cold lower extemities, because of not taking simple precautions are the most miserable I've dealt with. Cold feet and heads come next. The three rock nights can also be eased by digging a couple of long fire pits on each side of you. Careful that you dont roll too far one way or the other. Don't overlook snow as an effective insulator. I've had six inches of snow fall on me during the night and found I was warmer for it. I've tried all these in the field and can attest to each ones merits. different levels of effort yield different levels of comfort. Barkin Dawg Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin AMM #1534 Three Rivers Party "Aux aliments du pays!" Booshway of the Powderhorn Clan of Arizona Celebrating our 50th anniversary 1948-1998 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 02:49:26 -0500 From: gbosen@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question On Mon, 04 Jan 1999 20:55:34 -0800 Roger Lahti writes: >Guys, > >Sorry if I sounded like I thought you were new at this. I took your >questions and >statements in the vein of you not knowing how to do it and you >obviously do. I don't >think we disagree on any thing and I remain..... > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > Capt. Lahti, i wanted to mention that i appreciate all of you taking the liberty of assuming that the other doesn't exactly know "how to do it". I myself am a good listener to the goings on around the list. sometimes i feel as if the prominent voices are the only audience taken in consideration. i speak for a percentage of the list that enjoy thorough explanations to the "how to do it's ". i just want you to remember that there are people here that may need good explanations and not assum that the subject is fully understood. Greg Bosen PS this is not intended to be a flame! ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 03:02:40 -0500 From: gbosen@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping >One of our favorite cold fighters up here are hot >rocks. We always try to gather extra rocks and >heat them by the fire. Then just before bed put >them into your bedroll. Usually a rock about the >size of a loaf of bread is best. >Hope this helps. Allen Chronister > I remember at a 'vou someone had a metal box that he carried a heated stone. it was more of a item for a cabin. he used it like a portable heater. he hung it on a latern pole. my question is the stone. my memory tells me it was soap stone. i'm not sure this memory is truthful. is soap stone a good rock to seek out to use as a heater rock or is there any other rocks that you would determine as sutable to use. you mentioned exploding rocks. the wives tale i've heard is to mever use river rock around the fire. the long period of being under water make it basically soaked through and when you heat it the water boils and expands thus the explosion. Greg Bosen This is my searching for gold and leaving two bits. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:42:39 -0700 From: jbrandl@wyoming.com (Joe Brandl) Subject: MtMan-List: staying warm On really cold nights, I plug into my wife, she's 240 volt forget the rocks Joe Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery Call us about our professional home tanning kit-307-455-2440 Write for custom tanning prices We produce rawhide lampshades and carry a large selection of leather and hair on robes Fine lodgepole furniture, pillows, Indian reproductions, paintings, baskets check out our new web site: http://www.onpages.com/absaroka ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:48:03 -0800 From: "JON P TOWNS" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Going Public This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BE371F.AF61F920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hardtack I have used the tree fungus for lighting my mortar what I use came from UP Michigan you get it started you have to put it in water to put it out. Dennis if you have some you can spare I would be willing to trade for it. Later Jon Towns - ---------- : From: Dennis Miles : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Going Public : Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 1:24 PM : : Hardtack, : I have been sealing my tin with pine pitch w/ a touch of wax (more : pliable) around the inside rim. Quit usin Charcloth years ago, love punk : wood and tree fungus..More handy.. : Yr Brother : Dennis : Ohio : : "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" : DOUBLE EDGE FORGE : Period Knives & Iron Accouterments : http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 : -----Original Message----- : From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ : To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com : Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 4:37 PM : Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Going Public : : : >Gail, Most of our activities are out in the woods, etc.... Some of us : >feel it is important to do a public event every once in awhile. We share : >our skills and talents, in the hopes of keeping these skills alive. I : >keep my tinder in a two piece, press together , tin can. At the point : >where the cans overlap I rub beeswax around the edges, and the seam. : >Some- times, this makes it hard to get the can open, but it keeps things : >dry. Hardtack : > : >___________________________________________________________________ : >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. : >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html : >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] : > : > : : - ------=_NextPart_000_01BE371F.AF61F920 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hardtack I have used the tree fungus = for lighting my mortar what I use came from UP Michigan you get it = started you have to put it in water to put it out.  Dennis if you = have some you can spare I would be willing to trade for it.  Later = Jon Towns

----------
: From: Dennis Miles <deforge1@wesnet.com>
: To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Going Public
: Date: = Sunday, January 03, 1999 1:24 PM
:
: Hardtack,
:  I have = been sealing my tin with pine pitch  w/ a touch of wax (more
: = pliable) around the inside rim. Quit usin Charcloth years ago, love = punk
: wood and tree fungus..More handy..
: Yr Brother
: = Dennis
: Ohio
:
:    "Abair ach beagan is = abair gu math e"
: =           DOUBLE EDGE = FORGE
:   Period Knives & Iron Accouterments
: =     http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
: -----Original Message-----
: From: RANDAL J = BUBLITZ <randybublitz@juno.com>
: To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
: Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 4:37 PM
: = Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Going Public
:
:
: >Gail, =  Most of our activities are out in the woods, etc....  Some of = us
: >feel it is important to do a public event every once in = awhile.  We share
: >our skills and talents, in the hopes of = keeping these skills alive.  I
: >keep my tinder in a two = piece, press together , tin can.  At the point
: >where the = cans overlap I rub beeswax around the edges, and the seam.
: = >Some- times, this makes it hard to get the can open, but it keeps = things
: >dry.    Hardtack
: >
: = >___________________________________________________________________: >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet = e-mail.
: >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
: >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO = [654-5866]
: >
: >
:
:

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE371F.AF61F920-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 16:51:52 -0500 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping It is no wives tale that river rock can explode. Be in a sweat lodge when one goes off. Lots of luck getting out without a scratch or two. Linda Holley gbosen@juno.com wrote: > is soap stone a good rock to seek out to use as a heater rock or is > there any other rocks that you would determine as sutable to use. you > mentioned exploding rocks. the wives tale i've heard is to mever use > river rock around the fire. the long period of being under water make it > basically soaked through and when you heat it the water boils and expands > thus the explosion. > > Greg Bosen > > This is my searching for gold and leaving two bits. > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:13:52 -0600 From: Jeff Powers Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping >memory is truthful. is soap stone a good rock to seek out to use as >a heater rock or is there any other rocks that you would determine >as sutable to use. you mentioned exploding rocks. the wives tale >i've heard is to mever use river rock around the fire. the long >period of being under water make it basically soaked through and >when you heat it the water boils and expands thus the explosion. Soapstone is used by Vermont Stove Co. to line their wood stoves with,once heated it holds the heat for a long time! I've never trusted river rocks of any kind,but BASALT,usually a black colored rock found nearly everywhere is one of the best to use. In its previous life it was lava that has become a metamorphic rock over the millenia.It's miserably heavy,but to quote Whitebird,"It is one of the best Grandfathers to use in the Inipi because it remembers how to get hot and stay hot." Most limestones and sandstones "spall" when heated(explode) so avoid them. As a general rule choose smooth rounded rocks found as far from water as practical for the location and you will usually be safe,but if a rock starts to pop or crackle,pull it out and let it cool and forget that one. for a "flat rock" that is cheaper than soapstone and weighs about the same just buy hard fire brick from the brickdealer,not mountain correct that I know of,but its as old as the kilns of biblical times. Jeff Powers,Rogue & Ne'er do Well Is Disney World a people trap operated by a mouse? Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 15:57:42 -0800 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: winter sleeping Linda Holley wrote: > It is no wives tale that river rock can explode. Be in a sweat lodge when > one goes off. Lots of luck getting out without a scratch or two. Greg, Been waiting for some one to suggest you look for a chuck of basalt or solidified lava. It is a very close grained rock not too distant from glass and is used around sauna stoves since it doesn't absorb moisture and has little tendency to explode when heated. There are other other rocks that can be used that may be easier to find than soap stone. A friend carried a piece of soap stone into a canoe camp we do and slept in a boulder field of basalt! Kinda like "carrying coal to Newcastle". Just be careful to select dense rock and dry rock. Then be careful some more, like Linda said! I remain.... YMOS CApt. Lahti' > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:32:42 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question Brothers, Just a note to add to what my camp friend and brother Don has said. A very old method of keeping meat that I have found in many reference books, as well as told by some old rancher's here in Colorado is; (before electric power was available in the rural areas as recent as 1955, in several places and one that I had lived in, only 13 miles from Loveland CO), So much for that. Take your fresh meat and fry it well done, then you can use glass cake pans (even tin one's), 1) cover the bottom of the container with warmed lard (available at the store in one pound blocks). 2) put a layer of the cooked meat in with a small space between each piece. 3) pour your warm lard over the meat, making sure that the meat does not touch the sides or each other, 3/8 inch to 1/2 inch layer of lard. 4) repeat numbers #2 and #3 as many times as possible, leaving room on last layer to be covered with lard. Cover with a clean cloth or plastic/waxed wrap. What you have done is sealed each piece of cooked meat from bacteria, now when you want meat, just remove what is needed scrape off the extra lard, leaving it in the container to seal remaining meat. The meat you are using is warmed in the frying pan and the lard acts as a grease to keep it from sticking. We have used this old method for years and have gone from 20 degree weather to 85 degrees in 30 days, and the meat was still in excellent condition. Get this is was stored in the large tin saltine cans all this time. By the way these can's with the paint removed make great food container for other items, like flour, grains, etc. Buck Baker Party/ Colorado _______________ - -----Original Message----- From: Phyllis and Don Keas To: hist_text Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 8:24 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Documentation Question >Roger - Thanks for the info on the frock. >As for the water, I carry as much as I can also. I have had the bugs to >get rid of and it wasn't fun. >As for foods, I too carry the ones you mention and more. What I wqas >getting at is you can't have fresh meat all the time, even tho we usually >take some smoked or salted meats(pork) ............................ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 19:55:24 -0800 From: Marlis Simms Subject: MtMan-List: Re: India Rubber Canteens This came from Swanney to me and I am sending it out to any of you who can give him some info. I will forward it to him in Alaska. Thanks. I know this is from a later time period than many of you emulate, but I'm hoping someone can help me find some information. The "Invoice of Sundry Merchandise from the Rocky Mountain Outfit 1836 under charge of Fontenelle, Fitzpatrick, & Co." includes a listing of 9 India Rubber Canteens. Do you know what they may have looked like, how they were constructed, or any other details about this item? Take good care, Marlis & Joe ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #211 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.