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To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #343
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hist_text-digest       Wednesday, August 4 1999       Volume 01 : Number 343



In this issue:

-       Re: MtMan-List: Bill of Lading
-       MtMan-List: shooting bag
-       Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-       Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-       Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-       MtMan-List: Re: Women in the West
-       Re: MtMan-List: SPICES available in North America.
-       MtMan-List: Shooting Bab
-       RE: MtMan-List: Re: Women in the West
-       RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-       Re: MtMan-List: Need Wood
-       MtMan-List: (no subject)
-       Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
-       Re: MtMan-List: (no subject)
-       Re: MtMan-List: Re: Women in the West
-       Re: MtMan-List: Shootin' Bags

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:55:35 -0600
From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bill of Lading

Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu> writes:
>the canoe lists a "macaron of High Wines"
>What, may I ask, is a macaron?

Here's the entry for maccaron from _A Dictionary of Canadianisms on 
Historical Principles_, by the Lexicographal Centre for Canadian English 
(Gage Educational Publishing, 1991):
"These provisions were put in two gallon kegs, four of which were laced 
together and called a maccaron." (citing The Beaver magazine, vol. 9, April  
1922, p. 1)

The word maccaron was used in the fur trade as early as 1797, and 
(apparently) as late as 1929. 
Thanks for the correction to the web address for the canoe site, Lee. 

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
agottfre@telusplanet.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:35:09 -0500
From: bvannoy <bvannoy@mciworld.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: shooting bag

Allen,

    I carry the usual stuff in a large oiltan double pouch with a few
additions.  A pair of handforged pliers ( good for pulling thorns to
holding balls to trim sprues), a handforged screwdriver, a horn funnel,
and a hide glue stick for repairs.  In my bad's divider I've sewn loops
for my tools and such.  Much easier to find in the dark and beats
digging at the bottom of my bag.  No telling what resides down
there!<bg>
 Bill "Chases Hawks" Vannoy

------------------------------

Date: 4 Aug 1999 12:15:02 -0700
From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag

On Wed, 04 August 1999, bvannoy wrote:

> 
> Allen,
> 
>     I carry the usual stuff in a large oiltan double pouch with a few
> additions.  A pair of handforged pliers ( good for pulling thorns to
> holding balls to trim sprues), a handforged screwdriver, a horn funnel,
> and a hide glue stick for repairs.  In my bad's divider I've sewn loops
> for my tools and such.  Much easier to find in the dark and beats
> digging at the bottom of my bag.  No telling what resides down
> there!<bg>
>  Bill "Chases Hawks" Vannoy
- ----------------------------------------
This is part of an article that will appear in T&LR in the near future.
- ----------------------------------------
I now have a small bag copied from one a hunter from Pottstown PA carried as part of his profession for a 28 years career from 1787 to 1815. 

For contents, I found his wares to be very interesting, knowing it belonged and was designed by one that worked with it every day as a tool of his trade.  

Lets start with the small tin containers; 1-3/4 X 4-1/2 X 1-1/4 inches, hinged on the end with a simple pressurer clip to keep the lid secured. 
                
Inside - container #1: brained deer hide liner used to keep other items 
from making noise, (1) combination screwdriver-knapper, (1) vent pick-handforged,  (1) iron ball jag, (1) tow worm, (1) handforged small nail used to insert in small hole in ramrod if rod became stuck, (1) small folding pocket knife, (2) flicker feathers used to plug vent hole in bad weather, (1) small brass bell with leather thong-apparently this hunter had a dog for his companion. Oh, almost forgot (1) small round tin container apprx. 7/8 dia. X 3/4 inches deep-used for patch lube and lip baum. 
                
Inside - container #2: brained deer hide liner used to keep other items  from making noise, (6) small handforged fishing hooks with tappered end, 
(4) small [.29 cal.] round balls-weights, (2) corncob floats, (2) 6 foot  pieces of linen thread, (4) horsehair leaders, (1) small round tin 3/4 X 3/4 inches-bees wax, (2) handmade sewing needles, (3) thin leather thongs, and (2) iron blanket pins 1-1/2 inches in dia. 
                
Contents in back pocket: roll of pillow ticking-.012 thickness, small  handmade bottle of cleaner, small short starter, flint wallet with small 
turn screw and vent pick, brained deer hide ball bag-20 /.435 round balls. 

On the back of the back pocket is a rawhide sheath with a 10 inch overall length butcher knife. 
                
Contents in front pocket: (1) 3 hole bullet board with thong attached to an adjustable powder measurer, (1) small oval tin 3 X 4 X 3/4 inches with 3-1/2 X 1 inch striker, (3) flint flakes, tow, tin of char, and (6) sulfer matches, container again lined with brained deer hide. (1) small  handforged single jaw trap [muskrat], wooden cased compass 2 X 2 X 7/8 
inches, (3) bees wax candles wrapped in linen cloth, 
(1) small wooden salt barrel 3/4 X 2 inches, and (1) 2 piece turkey wing bone call. 
                
This is very interesting that such a small pouch of the day - 1787 to 
1815 is so compact and only the needed items to perform his tasks are  used, every item was needed in his daily survival and gathering of game.  

Note things like bullet molds, ladels, lead bar, pipes-tobacco, etc. are items cached or left at his residents in the settlements. 
                
Something we found interesting in his journal was the mention of not using tobacco, feeling that the odor from such activity would hamper his ability to get close to game. 
- -----------------------------------

Later,
Buck Conner 
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade 
and early history of the times.	  AMM journal
 
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle  * 3483 Squires  * 
Conklin, MI  49403     
ATTN: Jon Link	       
		  
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.	   
_____________________________________
     
 

Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:24:06 -0700
From: "john c. funk,jr" <j2hearts@shasta.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag

Buck,

Fascinating !!!!  What were the dimensions of the bag?


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag


> On Wed, 04 August 1999, bvannoy wrote:
>
> >
> > Allen,
> >
> >     I carry the usual stuff in a large oiltan double pouch with a few
> > additions.  A pair of handforged pliers ( good for pulling thorns to
> > holding balls to trim sprues), a handforged screwdriver, a horn funnel,
> > and a hide glue stick for repairs.  In my bad's divider I've sewn loops
> > for my tools and such.  Much easier to find in the dark and beats
> > digging at the bottom of my bag.  No telling what resides down
> > there!<bg>
> >  Bill "Chases Hawks" Vannoy
> ----------------------------------------
> This is part of an article that will appear in T&LR in the near future.
> ----------------------------------------
> I now have a small bag copied from one a hunter from Pottstown PA carried
as part of his profession for a 28 years career from 1787 to 1815.
>
> For contents, I found his wares to be very interesting, knowing it
belonged and was designed by one that worked with it every day as a tool of
his trade.
>
> Lets start with the small tin containers; 1-3/4 X 4-1/2 X 1-1/4 inches,
hinged on the end with a simple pressurer clip to keep the lid secured.
>
> Inside - container #1: brained deer hide liner used to keep other items
> from making noise, (1) combination screwdriver-knapper, (1) vent
pick-handforged,  (1) iron ball jag, (1) tow worm, (1) handforged small nail
used to insert in small hole in ramrod if rod became stuck, (1) small
folding pocket knife, (2) flicker feathers used to plug vent hole in bad
weather, (1) small brass bell with leather thong-apparently this hunter had
a dog for his companion. Oh, almost forgot (1) small round tin container
apprx. 7/8 dia. X 3/4 inches deep-used for patch lube and lip baum.
>
> Inside - container #2: brained deer hide liner used to keep other items
from making noise, (6) small handforged fishing hooks with tappered end,
> (4) small [.29 cal.] round balls-weights, (2) corncob floats, (2) 6 foot
pieces of linen thread, (4) horsehair leaders, (1) small round tin 3/4 X 3/4
inches-bees wax, (2) handmade sewing needles, (3) thin leather thongs, and
(2) iron blanket pins 1-1/2 inches in dia.
>
> Contents in back pocket: roll of pillow ticking-.012 thickness, small
handmade bottle of cleaner, small short starter, flint wallet with small
> turn screw and vent pick, brained deer hide ball bag-20 /.435 round balls.
>
> On the back of the back pocket is a rawhide sheath with a 10 inch overall
length butcher knife.
>
> Contents in front pocket: (1) 3 hole bullet board with thong attached to
an adjustable powder measurer, (1) small oval tin 3 X 4 X 3/4 inches with
3-1/2 X 1 inch striker, (3) flint flakes, tow, tin of char, and (6) sulfer
matches, container again lined with brained deer hide. (1) small  handforged
single jaw trap [muskrat], wooden cased compass 2 X 2 X 7/8
> inches, (3) bees wax candles wrapped in linen cloth,
> (1) small wooden salt barrel 3/4 X 2 inches, and (1) 2 piece turkey wing
bone call.
>
> This is very interesting that such a small pouch of the day - 1787 to
> 1815 is so compact and only the needed items to perform his tasks are
used, every item was needed in his daily survival and gathering of game.
>
> Note things like bullet molds, ladels, lead bar, pipes-tobacco, etc. are
items cached or left at his residents in the settlements.
>
> Something we found interesting in his journal was the mention of not using
tobacco, feeling that the odor from such activity would hamper his ability
to get close to game.
> -----------------------------------
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
> dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
> http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
> _____________________________________
> NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
> and early history of the times.   AMM journal
>
> The Tomahawk & Long Rifle  * 3483 Squires  *
> Conklin, MI  49403
> ATTN: Jon Link
>
> The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
> quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
> _____________________________________
>
>
>
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
>
>

------------------------------

Date: 4 Aug 1999 12:36:39 -0700
From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag

On Wed, 04 August 1999, "john c. funk,jr" wrote:

> 
> Buck,
> 
> Fascinating !!!!  What were the dimensions of the bag?
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:15 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
> 
> 
> > On Wed, 04 August 1999, bvannoy wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Allen,
> > >
> > >     I carry the usual stuff in a large oiltan double pouch with a few
> > > additions.  A pair of handforged pliers ( good for pulling thorns to
> > > holding balls to trim sprues), a handforged screwdriver, a horn funnel,
> > > and a hide glue stick for repairs.  In my bad's divider I've sewn loops
> > > for my tools and such.  Much easier to find in the dark and beats
> > > digging at the bottom of my bag.  No telling what resides down
> > > there!<bg>
> > >  Bill "Chases Hawks" Vannoy
> > ----------------------------------------
> > This is part of an article that will appear in T&LR in the near future.
> > ----------------------------------------
> > I now have a small bag copied from one a hunter from Pottstown PA carried
> as part of his profession for a 28 years career from 1787 to 1815.
> >
> > For contents, I found his wares to be very interesting, knowing it
> belonged and was designed by one that worked with it every day as a tool of
> his trade.
> >
> > Lets start with the small tin containers; 1-3/4 X 4-1/2 X 1-1/4 inches,
> hinged on the end with a simple pressurer clip to keep the lid secured.
> >
> > Inside - container #1: brained deer hide liner used to keep other items
> > from making noise, (1) combination screwdriver-knapper, (1) vent
> pick-handforged,  (1) iron ball jag, (1) tow worm, (1) handforged small nail
> used to insert in small hole in ramrod if rod became stuck, (1) small
> folding pocket knife, (2) flicker feathers used to plug vent hole in bad
> weather, (1) small brass bell with leather thong-apparently this hunter had
> a dog for his companion. Oh, almost forgot (1) small round tin container
> apprx. 7/8 dia. X 3/4 inches deep-used for patch lube and lip baum.
> >
> > Inside - container #2: brained deer hide liner used to keep other items
> from making noise, (6) small handforged fishing hooks with tappered end,
> > (4) small [.29 cal.] round balls-weights, (2) corncob floats, (2) 6 foot
> pieces of linen thread, (4) horsehair leaders, (1) small round tin 3/4 X 3/4
> inches-bees wax, (2) handmade sewing needles, (3) thin leather thongs, and
> (2) iron blanket pins 1-1/2 inches in dia.
> >
> > Contents in back pocket: roll of pillow ticking-.012 thickness, small
> handmade bottle of cleaner, small short starter, flint wallet with small
> > turn screw and vent pick, brained deer hide ball bag-20 /.435 round balls.
> >
> > On the back of the back pocket is a rawhide sheath with a 10 inch overall
> length butcher knife.
> >
> > Contents in front pocket: (1) 3 hole bullet board with thong attached to
> an adjustable powder measurer, (1) small oval tin 3 X 4 X 3/4 inches with
> 3-1/2 X 1 inch striker, (3) flint flakes, tow, tin of char, and (6) sulfer
> matches, container again lined with brained deer hide. (1) small  handforged
> single jaw trap [muskrat], wooden cased compass 2 X 2 X 7/8
> > inches, (3) bees wax candles wrapped in linen cloth,
> > (1) small wooden salt barrel 3/4 X 2 inches, and (1) 2 piece turkey wing
> bone call.
> >
> > This is very interesting that such a small pouch of the day - 1787 to
> > 1815 is so compact and only the needed items to perform his tasks are
> used, every item was needed in his daily survival and gathering of game.
> >
> > Note things like bullet molds, ladels, lead bar, pipes-tobacco, etc. are
> items cached or left at his residents in the settlements.
> >
> > Something we found interesting in his journal was the mention of not using
> tobacco, feeling that the odor from such activity would hamper his ability
> to get close to game.
> > -----------------------------------
> >
> > Later,
> > Buck Conner
- -----------------------------------
John,
Your going to have me end up putting the whole article on here.

His bag small by some folks standards, 8-1/2 X 9 inches made of
commerical cow hide, dark brown in color with a wide strap of 1-1/2
inches with a handforged buckle for adjustment of the length and made of
tightely woven linen in forest colors, now dull from useage and age. The
bag has a 2" gusset with a divider making two compartments (lined with
linen material), there are to small leather pockets attached to the back
of the bag - used to hold to small tin containers.

All seams are welted, even the edge of the flap that is covered with
linen on the inside and having a narrow welted slit to make a storage
area for patching material. A clever idea that one should consider when
building his next pouch, making easy access to your shooting and
cleaning material, as well as adding weight to the flap to keep it in
place - flap has a tong used to sucure it to the pewter button attached
at the bottom of the bag. This will give you a pretty good idea of the
appearance and how this bag is set up.
- -----------------------------------


Later,
Buck Conner 
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade 
and early history of the times.	  AMM journal
 
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle  * 3483 Squires  * 
Conklin, MI  49403     
ATTN: Jon Link	       
		  
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.	   
_____________________________________
     
 

Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 14:47:58 -0500
From: "Henry B. Crawford" <mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Women in the West

Actually, Narcissa was not the first white Anerican woman to visit the
Rockies.  Mary Donoho came down the Santa Fe Trail in 1833, and is
considered the first Anglo American woman to do so.  Since Santa Fe is
technically in the Southern Rockies, she predates the Whitmans by three
years.  Narcissa may still be the first to attend a Rendezvous, but not the
first to visit the Rockies.

A recent biography called _Mary Donoho: First Lady of the Santa Fe Trail_
or something to that effect, sheds new light on Anglo women in the west.  I
wish I could remember the author.

Cheers,
HBC


>Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:17:11 -0700
>From: "Kurt Westenbarger" <kwesten@wyellowstone.com>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Women at Rendezvous
>
>Just to clear up the white women in the west story a little:  Narcissa
>Whitman and
>Eliza Spaulding traveled west together with their missionary husbands in 1836.
>The Spauldings established thier mission at Lapwai and the Whitmans at Walla
>Walla.  These are the earliest white women in the rocky mountain west that
>I've
>come upon.
>Kurt
>

****************************************
Henry B. Crawford	Box 43191
Curator of History	Museum of Texas Tech University
mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu	Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
806/742-2442 	FAX 742-1136
              Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because It's There  ******

------------------------------

Date: 4 Aug 1999 12:47:56 -0700
From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: SPICES available in North America.

> On Tue, 03 August 1999, concho@uswestmail.net wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 03 August 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
> 
> This sure gives us a good source, with foods, etc., plus articles, tapes and such from good documentation. We all need to thank these people for adding to our needs from time to time. Thanks Clark & Sons, Goose Bay,(suppliers) Mark Baker, John Curry, Bill Gorbey and Brook Elliott (articles and columns) for the support.
> > 
> > See you down the trail.
> > Turtle.
> ------------------------------------------
> Turtle are you getting a cut from C&S, only kidding. Mark told me a while back at one of the eastern events he was getting his supplies and field testing some stuff for C&S, so was John Curry. Mark also mentioned that the foods in the last video #4 Buck furnished, and in the credits of Wes and Jeff's second video it shows Clark & Sons Mercantile as their food source.
> 
> The old buck is getting around, bad back and all, folks that's really nice of these guys mentioned for the service they're providing to us the re-enacters, sure saves us time doing research, when all we have to do is pickup a magazine these guys write in.
> 
> Turtle like you said, "thanks a bunch for your efforts guys".
> ___________________________________

Hey guys thanks for all the kind remarks, sent a copy to Baker, Curry, Gorby, Elloitt and Gobel - know they will thank you also.  John Curry told me he wondered if anyone ever read or listen to what they write, or where they just another "middle of the road group" for writers.

"It's nice to know that one's efforts where not spent in vain." 
                                                             Thomas Jefferson 1811.


Later,
Buck Conner 
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade 
and early history of the times.	  AMM journal
 
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle  * 3483 Squires  * 
Conklin, MI  49403     
ATTN: Jon Link	       
		  
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.	   
_____________________________________
     
 

Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:50:13 -0700
From: "john c. funk,jr" <j2hearts@shasta.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Shooting Bab

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BEDE77.E4C765A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Buck,
Many thanks.  Very informative article.  Time to make some changes.
John Funk

- ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BEDE77.E4C765A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Buck,</DIV>
<DIV>Many thanks.&nbsp; Very&nbsp;informative article.&nbsp; Time to =
make some=20
changes.</DIV>
<DIV>John Funk</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BEDE77.E4C765A0--

------------------------------

Date: 04 Aug 99 16:18:14 -0600
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Women in the West

         Reply to:   RE: MtMan-List: Re: Women in the West
Mary Donoho - New First Lady of the Santa Fe Trail  written by Marian =
Meyer  with a forward by Marc Simmons.    Ancient City Press    Santa Fe, =
NM
One really good book,. especially for the women and tears up some of the =
widely held beliefs that have turned out to be erronious.

DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants

Henry B. Crawford wrote:
>
>
>Actually, Narcissa was not the first white Anerican woman to visit the
>Rockies.  Mary Donoho came down the Santa Fe Trail in 1833, and is
>considered the first Anglo American woman to do so.  Since Santa Fe is
>technically in the Southern Rockies, she predates the Whitmans by three
>years.  Narcissa may still be the first to attend a Rendezvous, but not =
the
>first to visit the Rockies.
>
>A recent biography called _Mary Donoho: First Lady of the Santa Fe Trail_
>or something to that effect, sheds new light on Anglo women in the west.  =
I
>wish I could remember the author.
>
>Cheers,
>HBC
>
>
>>Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:17:11 -0700
>>From: "Kurt Westenbarger" <kwesten@wyellowstone.com>
>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Women at Rendezvous
>>
>>Just to clear up the white women in the west story a little:  Narcissa
>>Whitman and
>>Eliza Spaulding traveled west together with their missionary husbands in =
1836.
>>The Spauldings established thier mission at Lapwai and the Whitmans at =
Walla
>>Walla.  These are the earliest white women in the rocky mountain west =
that
>>I've
>>come upon.
>>Kurt
>>
>
>****************************************
>Henry B. Crawford	Box 43191
>Curator of History	Museum of Texas Tech University
>mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu	Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
>806/742-2442 	FAX 742-1136
>              Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
>******  Living History . . . Because It's There  ******
>
>
>
>
>
>RFC822 header
>-----------------------------------
>
> Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with =
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> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 14:47:58 -0500
> From: "Henry B. Crawford" <mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Women in the West
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>

------------------------------

Date: 04 Aug 99 16:18:11 -0600
From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag

         Reply to:   RE: MtMan-List: shooting bag
Hide glue stick?  How did you make that and how do you use it?

DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants

bvannoy wrote:
>Allen,
>
>    I carry the usual stuff in a large oiltan double pouch with a few
>additions.  A pair of handforged pliers ( good for pulling thorns to
>holding balls to trim sprues), a handforged screwdriver, a horn funnel,
>and a hide glue stick for repairs.  In my bad's divider I've sewn loops
>for my tools and such.  Much easier to find in the dark and beats
>digging at the bottom of my bag.  No telling what resides down
>there!<bg>
> Bill "Chases Hawks" Vannoy
>
>
>
>RFC822 header
>-----------------------------------
>
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> Subject: MtMan-List: shooting bag
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 18:27:57 -0400
From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need Wood

I want to thank all the great responses I received on the board.
You guys are a wealth of knowledge and materials.
I will be contacting a few of you wonderful people to see about the wood.
What I am looking for is 4"X 1/2" X4 feet, split if possible.  I know Osage
Orange is VERY hard, but it is the correct wood for these Period Pieces I want to
do for myself.  Also need smaller pieces for smaller cradle boards.
So thanks again, You wonderful lovely, grizzly, faced nicked, contrary gentleman.

Linda Holley

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 20:28:32 -0500
From: Mike Rock <mikerock@mhtc.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: (no subject)

Larry Pendleton, film star!!
Larry, I just got the wonderful tape and don't know what else to say.
Clear, well done, and way too short.  Eating popcorn and talking sign
don't mix :).   Great job, and all you guys, he did it RIGHT.   When is
the Sequel, Sign II coming out??

Rock

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:14:17 -0700
From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag

Guys,
  This discussion on shooting bags is great !  My gear inside the bag hasn't
changed much in the last few years, but I seem to build a new bag every
years or so.  The bag I am currently using is made of braintan deeskin,
which was not broken quite as well as it should have been.  It is still
quite soft but has more body to it than braintan that is done really well.
The bag is a simple single pouch with no gusset, but it is sewn with a welt.
It measures 8 1/2 X 9 inches.  The flap is double thickness of the braintan
with a button to hold it closed.  It has a single small pocket which carries
a cleaning jag, an extra flint, a few patches, and a small oak twig that is
whittled to fit as a plug for the touch hole which is used when I wash the
bore of my rifle.   In the main part of the bag there is a small bag that
holds about ten round balls.  I carry a separate bullet pouch for the bulk
of my amunition.  It either hangs from a separate strap or from my belt.  I
find I can load faster with this arrangement.  The rest of the gear includes
: forged pliers, forged screwdriver-flint knapper, fire steel, flint, bag of
tow, bag of extra gun flints, deerskin wallet that holds extra jags a tow
worm and ball puller, folding knife, rolls of ticking strips used for
patching, a can of grease used for lubing patches and the bore of my rifle,
and a small brass tube that contains bear oil for oiling the lock.  My
powder measure hangs from the neck of my powder horn, and the vent pick is
carried in the patchbox.   My patch knife is attached to the back of the
bag.
  I carry the bullet mold, ladle, and lead in my haversack.  Where to carry
these items has always been somewhat of a dilema.  It seems the bullet mold
was most often carried in the shooting bag, but it is of no use without the
ladle and lead and that is more weight than I want to carry in the shooting
bag.  What to do ?
  This how I carry my stuff, and it works pretty well for me.   How one uses
a shooting bag  and other accoutrements is a very individual thing.  What
works for one person may or may not work for the next.
Pendleton
- -----Original Message-----
From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag


>On Wed, 04 August 1999, "john c. funk,jr" wrote:
>
>>
>> Buck,
>>
>> Fascinating !!!!  What were the dimensions of the bag?
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
>> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: shooting bag
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, 04 August 1999, bvannoy wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Allen,
>> > >
>> > >     I carry the usual stuff in a large oiltan double pouch with a few
>> > > additions.  A pair of handforged pliers ( good for pulling thorns to
>> > > holding balls to trim sprues), a handforged screwdriver, a horn
funnel,
>> > > and a hide glue stick for repairs.  In my bad's divider I've sewn
loops
>> > > for my tools and such.  Much easier to find in the dark and beats
>> > > digging at the bottom of my bag.  No telling what resides down
>> > > there!<bg>
>> > >  Bill "Chases Hawks" Vannoy
>> > ----------------------------------------
>> > This is part of an article that will appear in T&LR in the near future.
>> > ----------------------------------------
>> > I now have a small bag copied from one a hunter from Pottstown PA
carried
>> as part of his profession for a 28 years career from 1787 to 1815.
>> >
>> > For contents, I found his wares to be very interesting, knowing it
>> belonged and was designed by one that worked with it every day as a tool
of
>> his trade.
>> >
>> > Lets start with the small tin containers; 1-3/4 X 4-1/2 X 1-1/4 inches,
>> hinged on the end with a simple pressurer clip to keep the lid secured.
>> >
>> > Inside - container #1: brained deer hide liner used to keep other items
>> > from making noise, (1) combination screwdriver-knapper, (1) vent
>> pick-handforged,  (1) iron ball jag, (1) tow worm, (1) handforged small
nail
>> used to insert in small hole in ramrod if rod became stuck, (1) small
>> folding pocket knife, (2) flicker feathers used to plug vent hole in bad
>> weather, (1) small brass bell with leather thong-apparently this hunter
had
>> a dog for his companion. Oh, almost forgot (1) small round tin container
>> apprx. 7/8 dia. X 3/4 inches deep-used for patch lube and lip baum.
>> >
>> > Inside - container #2: brained deer hide liner used to keep other items
>> from making noise, (6) small handforged fishing hooks with tappered end,
>> > (4) small [.29 cal.] round balls-weights, (2) corncob floats, (2) 6
foot
>> pieces of linen thread, (4) horsehair leaders, (1) small round tin 3/4 X
3/4
>> inches-bees wax, (2) handmade sewing needles, (3) thin leather thongs,
and
>> (2) iron blanket pins 1-1/2 inches in dia.
>> >
>> > Contents in back pocket: roll of pillow ticking-.012 thickness, small
>> handmade bottle of cleaner, small short starter, flint wallet with small
>> > turn screw and vent pick, brained deer hide ball bag-20 /.435 round
balls.
>> >
>> > On the back of the back pocket is a rawhide sheath with a 10 inch
overall
>> length butcher knife.
>> >
>> > Contents in front pocket: (1) 3 hole bullet board with thong attached
to
>> an adjustable powder measurer, (1) small oval tin 3 X 4 X 3/4 inches with
>> 3-1/2 X 1 inch striker, (3) flint flakes, tow, tin of char, and (6)
sulfer
>> matches, container again lined with brained deer hide. (1) small
handforged
>> single jaw trap [muskrat], wooden cased compass 2 X 2 X 7/8
>> > inches, (3) bees wax candles wrapped in linen cloth,
>> > (1) small wooden salt barrel 3/4 X 2 inches, and (1) 2 piece turkey
wing
>> bone call.
>> >
>> > This is very interesting that such a small pouch of the day - 1787 to
>> > 1815 is so compact and only the needed items to perform his tasks are
>> used, every item was needed in his daily survival and gathering of game.
>> >
>> > Note things like bullet molds, ladels, lead bar, pipes-tobacco, etc.
are
>> items cached or left at his residents in the settlements.
>> >
>> > Something we found interesting in his journal was the mention of not
using
>> tobacco, feeling that the odor from such activity would hamper his
ability
>> to get close to game.
>> > -----------------------------------
>> >
>> > Later,
>> > Buck Conner
>-----------------------------------
>John,
>Your going to have me end up putting the whole article on here.
>
>His bag small by some folks standards, 8-1/2 X 9 inches made of
>commerical cow hide, dark brown in color with a wide strap of 1-1/2
>inches with a handforged buckle for adjustment of the length and made of
>tightely woven linen in forest colors, now dull from useage and age. The
>bag has a 2" gusset with a divider making two compartments (lined with
>linen material), there are to small leather pockets attached to the back
>of the bag - used to hold to small tin containers.
>
>All seams are welted, even the edge of the flap that is covered with
>linen on the inside and having a narrow welted slit to make a storage
>area for patching material. A clever idea that one should consider when
>building his next pouch, making easy access to your shooting and
>cleaning material, as well as adding weight to the flap to keep it in
>place - flap has a tong used to sucure it to the pewter button attached
>at the bottom of the bag. This will give you a pretty good idea of the
>appearance and how this bag is set up.
>-----------------------------------
>
>
>Later,
>Buck Conner
>dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
>http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
>_____________________________________
>NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
>and early history of the times.   AMM journal
>
>The Tomahawk & Long Rifle  * 3483 Squires  *
>Conklin, MI  49403
>ATTN: Jon Link
>
>The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
>quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
>_____________________________________
>
>
>
>Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:17:03 -0700
From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: (no subject)

Mike at this point I don't know.  Thanks for the kind words.
Pendleton
- -----Original Message-----
From: Mike Rock <mikerock@mhtc.net>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 6:22 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: (no subject)


>Larry Pendleton, film star!!
>Larry, I just got the wonderful tape and don't know what else to say.
>Clear, well done, and way too short.  Eating popcorn and talking sign
>don't mix :).   Great job, and all you guys, he did it RIGHT.   When is
>the Sequel, Sign II coming out??
>
>Rock
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:31:29 EDT
From: Mtnman1449@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Women in the West

Henry---  two things: 
1.  Great photo of you last weekiend on front page of Rocky Mtn News at 
Bent's. 

2.  Mary Donoho, New first Lady of the Santa Fe Treail, by Marian Meyer, 
Forward by Marc Simmons, Ancient city Press, Santa Fe, NM, 1991.

Regards,
Pat Surrena, #1449
Jim Baker Party, Colorado

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 20:25:09 -0700
From: randybublitz@juno.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shootin' Bags

Hi Allen,   I prefer a belt bag.  Mine is a Moose hide bag measuring
roughly 7" x 7".  There is a large silver concho on the flap, which a
thong from the base of the bag wraps around for secure closure.  I tend
to load it lightly, carrying the rest of my truck in my pack.  I carry a
flint wallet which contains spare flints, tow worm, ball screw, and a
multi functional tool made by Dave Conte of Ca..  This tool is made from
a file.  It has a hole in it for use as a rod puller.  It is a screw
driver, short starter, flint striker/knapper and makes a handy tack
hammer as well.  I carry a roll of greased ticking for patch material.  I
carry a small french folding knife, as seen in Russels book.  The knife
is attached via a thong.  My vent pick and pan brush is attached via a
small linked chain.  I carry a small quantity of balls in a small leather
pouch.  I also carry a 6 holed loading block made from a piece of oak,
just big enough for this.  I have a small metal tin for grease.  There is
also a brass adjustable powder measure attached by a thong.  depending
one wether I am carrying one of my 'smoothies' or my rifle, contents may
vary.  I have a small wad dispenser and small bag of swan shot, if
carrying a smooth bore.  I may also carry my fire tin, compass, spy
glass, etc.. depending on the activity.  On treks I found that too many
shoulder straps were a nuisance, hence my preference for a belt bag.  If
need be, I can run better with a belt bag, also.  As for my 'pack'... I
have recently been carrying a set of saddle bags with detachable pommel
bags.  I coppied a set of bags that 'Short Step' has.  I find that the 4
seperate bags, 2 big- 2 small, are good for keeping my gear organized.  I
carry them over my shoulder.  If any one should ask... those *%#@!~+!!!!
Crows stole my horse, and left me afoot.  My ladle, lead, spare stuff,
bullet mold, etc... are stashed in the saddle bags, depending on what is
expected.  I appreciate your question.  It has generated some good
responses, which I find educational.    YMHS,   Hardtack  
                                        
Your Second Amendment Rights protect ALL of your other Rights, Don't give
up your Rights

------------------------------

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