From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #417 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, December 1 1999 Volume 01 : Number 417 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Trees -       Re: MtMan-List: Shoes -       Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Trees -       Re: MtMan-List:PILLOW TICKING -       Re: MtMan-List: Shoes -       MtMan-List:"Across the Seasons" -       Re: MtMan-List:"Across the Seasons" -       Re: MtMan-List: Shoes -       MtMan-List: moccs -       Re: MtMan-List: Trap Discussion -       Re: MtMan-List: Shoes -       Re: MtMan-List: Shoes -       MtMan-List: a week in the wilds of Idaho ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:55:25 -0500 From: "John L. Allen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Trees None of the trees inscribed by members of the Corps of Discovery are still standing, having gone the way of big timber throughout much of the West. The only remnant that marks the passage of the Corps of Discovery is William Clark's characteristic and readily identifiable scratched signature on Pompey's Pillar (Tower) just east of Billings, Montana. John Dr. John L. Allen 21 Thomas Drive Storrs, CT 06268 860/487-1346 johnlallen@uconn.cted.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: JON MARINETTI To: Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 11:50 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Trees > Any half-brothers in the camp know if those trees enscribed by the Corps > of Discovery are still there? Would be a mighty powerful period rush to > be there on Nov.24, 2005. Maybe the spirits of Clark and others could > get permission from God The Great Spirit Father to briefly visit from > the Eternal Blue Sky Land. Maybe 24-48 hours without food and water by > all 3-4 weeks before would cause this to happen? (at same time asking > Great Spirit Father in the name of His Only Son to hear our loud heart > cries to Him). Big Medicine? > > ----------------------------------- > from Michigan Territory > ----------------------------------- > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 19:55:43 -0500 From: tom roberts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shoes Todd, Check Ebay. I've been watching one source who has offered parts of hair-on buffalo hide. Catch is, it's green and you'll have to tan it yourself. Tom Farseer wrote: > Okay, I've read and seen a lot of references to moccasins for fur trade > recreation. Which type? I've made some puckered vamp mocs, like Miller > describes, but I've also seen folks wearing eastern center seams, and also > hard soled (rawhide it looked like) mocs. Assuming it's about 1820, and > I'm in St Joseph, or Robidaux if you prefer, What are the correct type of > mocs? References would be great, as well as advice. At this point, I'm > working on a second pair of pucker vamps out of buffalo for summer, and a > pair out of sheepskin with the wool on for winter wear. I'd love to find > a couple of square feet of hair on buffalo for the winter pair, but no luck > so far. > > Todd > (who freely admits to being a greenhorn and still don't have a spiffy name) > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 1 Dec 1999 17:31:41 -0800 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Trees On Wed, 01 December 1999, "John L. Allen" wrote: > > None of the trees inscribed by members of the Corps of Discovery are still > standing, having gone the way of big timber throughout much of the West. > > The only remnant that marks the passage of the Corps of Discovery is William > Clark's characteristic and readily identifiable scratched signature on > Pompey's Pillar (Tower) just east of Billings, Montana. > > John > > Dr. John L. Allen > 21 Thomas Drive > Storrs, CT 06268 > 860/487-1346 > johnlallen@uconn.cted.net > Doc, If you ever get a chance to go to Washington MO, check with me and I'll get you a name or two that can show you "Tavern Cave", the one Lewis & Clark stayed in for a period of time. Has ORDWAY's name and several others scribed into the walls, only thing that has saved them (their names) is it's location and over the years water has deepened the cave making the name about 10 foot off the muddy floor now. Later, Buck Conner _________________________________ Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html _________________________________ Aux Ailments de Pays! Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:25:29 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:PILLOW TICKING hello the camp: better half just came home and said you know that striped cotton cloth that you are always looking for that is 100% cotton and is white with blue black stripes on it-that you call pillow ticking--I was at the fabric store today and they are closing and I bought you a whole bolt of it many yards---at $4.00 a yard---does that make you happy---my response was yes dear---but now i have almost 50 yds of .015-.017 pillow ticking on a big role---never washed still has the sizeing in it---any of you guys out there need some of it for what she payed for it plus shipping are welcome to it---give me some eletronic smoke offline and i will ship it to you and a yard makes a lot of patches---I usually go thru about 4 to 6 yds a year when i am going to matches during the summer---so I have several years of supply and am willing to share if any of you need some--- let me know your needs---and the price is right--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 Phone: 1-727-771-1815 e-mail: hawknest4@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:19:23 -0800 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shoes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BF3C39.5B5D3220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Capt., Appears to me you're on the right track. Like you I don't claim to be = a moccasin scholar, but I also figure they wore the type of footwear = that was readily available or the type they knew how to make. Given = that those fellers were from the East it makes sense that there were = some centerseams worn. I have also experimented with sewing a thick = sole on the bottom of some centersems. Looks pretty bad but they wear = good on hard ground and on rocks. A feller once told me, after one day = at Rendezvous everyone's mocs look pretty much the same. Lewis wrote = about their men sewing soles on the bottom of their mocs when they were = in cactus country. =20 Pendleton =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: R Lahti To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 4:09 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shoes =20 =20 Farseer wrote: >=20 > Okay, I've read and seen a lot of references to moccasins for fur = trade > recreation. Which type? =20 =20 Farseer, =20 In the absence of noted scholars learned in this particular subject, = I feel a degree of bravery and shall sally forth. I think you're on = the right track with the puckered vamp moc's. =20 I've made some puckered vamp mocs, like Miller > describes, but I've also seen folks wearing eastern center seams, = and also > hard soled (rawhide it looked like) mocs.=20 =20 What you see pictured in Miller's paintings is probably more = correctly what was being worn. Conversely, the styles commonly seen at = rendezvous may or may not be historically correct.=20 =20 Assuming it's about 1820, and > I'm in St Joseph, or Robidaux if you prefer, What are the correct = type of > mocs? References would be great, as well as advice.=20 =20 I can't give references but my opinion is that the Rocky Mt. = Personage of the time wore the type of moc he either knew how to make or the = type that he could get made for him by local manufacture. Considering = that many of the practitioners in the mountains were French or = French/Indian or even throw in a considerable number of eastern tribal members = gone west there is no doubt on my part that most any eastern/Great Lakes/Canadian Shield style of moc was represented.=20 =20 I think most mocs were probably of the style you have made. That = seems to be what is pictured by contemporary artists the most. It isn't = any harder to draw or paint any other type of moc but that is what they = drew and painted. That is why you see them. Simple center seams may have = been made because they are easy to make but they have inherent design = limits and the pucker toe/vamped moc lends it self to summer and winter = designs much more readily.=20 =20 The side seam styles of the Columbia plateau indians were used too, = but I think probably by the whites most in contact with themand then = only if they were made by the local indian population. The hard sole plains indian moc may have been made tand used but I suspect it was not as commonly worn by whites as the pucker toe/vamp moc. Any of these = styles are appropriate in any case and one should not feel limited to one style. =20 At this point, I'm > working on a second pair of pucker vamps out of buffalo for = summer, and a > pair out of sheepskin with the wool on for winter wear. I'd = love to find > a couple of square feet of hair on buffalo for the winter pair, = but no luck > so far. =20 I have a pair of brain tanned winter mocs (pucker toe/vamps) that = are lined with blanket socks and wool socks as the mountaineer was = recorded as doing. They work fine on snowshoes and in cold weather. I too = have thought to make a pair of some sheep pelts I have but have never = gotten around to doing it. I'm not sure it is necessary and I do camp in = very cold weather. Anyway I hope this has been reassuring if not = completely helpful. These are my opinions and are worth what it cost you. = Winter well. I remain.... =20 YMOS Capt. Lahti' =20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BF3C39.5B5D3220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Capt.,
  Appears = to me you're=20 on the right track.  Like you I don't claim to be a moccasin = scholar, but I=20 also figure they wore the type of footwear that was readily available or = the=20 type they knew how to make.  Given that those fellers were from the = East it=20 makes sense that there were some centerseams worn.  I have also=20 experimented with sewing a thick sole on the bottom of some = centersems. =20 Looks pretty bad but they wear good on hard ground and on rocks.  A = feller=20 once told me, after one day at Rendezvous everyone's mocs look pretty = much the=20 same.  Lewis wrote about their men sewing soles on the bottom of = their mocs=20 when they were in cactus country.  
Pendleton 
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 R Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
To: = hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20 <hist_text@lists.xmission.com= >
Date:=20 Wednesday, December 01, 1999 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: = MtMan-List:=20 Shoes

Farseer wrote:
>
> Okay, I've = read=20 and seen a lot of references to moccasins for fur trade
>=20 recreation.  Which type? 

Farseer,

In the = absence=20 of noted scholars learned in this particular subject, I
feel a = degree of=20 bravery and shall sally forth. I think you're on the
right track = with the=20 puckered vamp moc's.

I've made some puckered vamp mocs, like=20 Miller
> describes, but I've also seen folks wearing eastern = center=20 seams, and also
> hard soled (rawhide it looked like) mocs.=20

What you see pictured in Miller's paintings is probably more = correctly
what was being worn. Conversely, the styles commonly = seen at=20 rendezvous
may or may not be historically correct.

  = Assuming it's about 1820, and
> I'm in St Joseph, or Robidaux = if you=20 prefer,  What are the correct type of
> = mocs?   =20 References would be great, as well as advice.

I can't give=20 references but my opinion is that the Rocky Mt. Personage
of the = time=20 wore the type of moc he either knew how to make or the type
that = he could=20 get made for him by local manufacture. Considering that
many of = the=20 practitioners in the mountains were French or French/Indian
or = even throw=20 in a considerable number of eastern tribal members gone
west = there is no=20 doubt on my part that most any eastern/Great
Lakes/Canadian = Shield style=20 of moc was represented.

I think most mocs were probably of = the style=20 you have made. That seems
to be what is pictured by contemporary = artists=20 the most. It isn't any
harder to draw or paint any other type of = moc but=20 that is what they drew
and painted. That is why you see them. = Simple=20 center seams may have been
made because they are easy to make but = they=20 have inherent design limits
and the pucker toe/vamped moc lends = it self=20 to summer and winter designs
much more readily.

The side = seam=20 styles of the Columbia plateau indians were used too, but
I think = probably by the whites most in contact with themand then only = if
they=20 were made by the local indian population. The hard sole = plains
indian moc=20 may have been made tand used but I suspect it was not as
commonly = worn by=20 whites as the pucker toe/vamp moc. Any of these styles
are = appropriate in=20 any case and one should not feel limited to one
style.

At = this=20 point, I'm
> working on a second pair of pucker vamps out of = buffalo=20 for summer, and a
> pair out of sheepskin with the wool on for = winter=20 wear.    I'd love to find
> a couple of square = feet of=20 hair on buffalo for the winter pair, but no luck
> so = far.

I=20 have a pair of brain tanned winter mocs (pucker toe/vamps) that = are
lined=20 with blanket socks and wool socks as the mountaineer was = recorded
as=20 doing. They work fine on snowshoes and in cold weather. I too=20 have
thought to make a pair of some sheep pelts I have but have = never=20 gotten
around to doing it. I'm not sure it is necessary and I do = camp in=20 very
cold weather. Anyway I hope this has been reassuring if not=20 completely
helpful. These are my opinions and are worth what it = cost you.=20 Winter
well. I remain....

YMOS
Capt.=20 Lahti'

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xm= ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
- ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BF3C39.5B5D3220-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:44:28 -0800 From: Julia Sirovetz Subject: MtMan-List:"Across the Seasons" - --============_-1268019814==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Greetings to the List, I have been given the delightful experience of being allowed to read'Across the Seasons' by Laura Rugel Glise. This book is a love story as wild and as free as the Rocky Mountains must have been in the year of 1838. Sarah Hanley, art history professor at Emory University in Atlanta, has one regret, she was cheated out of a trek into the Wind River area in Wyoming. Now, nearly 20 years and one mystical experience later, she is about to have her dream come true. Miss Glise paints a vivid and very vital portrayal of the characters in her story. Osborne Russell was outstanding in his capacity for interpreting in detail the newness of the world around him. He portrays the Shining Mountains as if they were a character in themselves, his journal attests to that. As Russell comes to life on the pages of this book, I found him to have an innocent charm and raw appeal that deems him to be irresistible. Miss Glise shows an overwhelming respect for Mr. Russell and his comrades. I believe that for Historical Re-enactors, it is not a hard task to allow one'smind to be sent back in time, is that not the fruit we find in our labor? In reading'Across the Seasons' I was immediately transfixed and swept away on a wild ride into the heart of the 1838 Rendezvous. I do not claim to know my history, however I do know a good historical fantasy when I read one. This book is a damn good read, with descriptions as articulate and smooth as butter off a warm knife. I can guarantee that it will spark lively conversation with those lucky enough to read it, also, that a wee bit of controversy will arise from it's pages. Respectfully, Julie - --============_-1268019814==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" CourierGreetings to the List, I have been given the delightful experience of being allowed to read'Across the Seasons' by Laura Rugel Glise. This book is a love story as wild and as free as the Rocky Mountains must have been in the year of 1838. Sarah Hanley, art history professor at Emory University in Atlanta, has one regret, she was cheated out of a trek into the Wind River area in Wyoming. Now, nearly 20 years and one mystical experience later, she is about to have her dream come true. Miss Glise paints a vivid and very vital portrayal of the characters in her story. Osborne Russell was outstanding in his capacity for interpreting in detail the newness of the world around him. He portrays the Shining Mountains as if they were a character in themselves, his journal attests to that. As Russell comes to life on the pages of this book, I found him to have an innocent charm and raw appeal that deems him to be irresistible. Miss Glise shows an overwhelming respect for Mr. Russell and his comrades. I believe that for Historical Re-enactors, it is not a hard task to allow one'smind to be sent back in time, is that not the fruit we find in our labor? In reading'Across the Seasons' I was immediately transfixed and swept away on a wild ride into the heart of the 1838 Rendezvous. I do not claim to know my history, however I do know a good historical fantasy when I read one. This book is a damn good read, with descriptions as articulate and smooth as butter off a warm knife. I can guarantee that it will spark lively conversation with those lucky enough to read it, also, that a wee bit of controversy will arise from it's pages. Respectfully, Julie - --============_-1268019814==_ma============-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 21:16:42 -0600 From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:"Across the Seasons" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BF3C41.5D3BBC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, If you check over on the Auction Site, = www.wesnet.com/deforge1/Auction.htm, you will find that the manuscript = to Across the Seasons is still unsold. There is a healthy bid on it, = but Laura has promised to send a copy of the book (when it is published) = to who ever buys the manuscript....as a bonus. This is a generous = donation to AMM, as are all the other items offered on the auction. = Check it out. Now. YMOS Lanney Ratcliff ps: Particularly check out John Kramer's great offer for his excellent = wood treatment. I bought a bottle at full price,and would do it again = (and will when I use up this bottle) and have found it to be amazing = stuff. Hell, it's probably good on biscuits!! This is the last week to = contribute to AMM and to pick up some good plunder, so click over there = and shoot a bid. =20 pps: Hats off to Dennis Miles for messing with the Auction. Call him = up and buy a knife or a striker or something. From: Julia Sirovetz=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 8:44 PM Subject: MtMan-List:"Across the Seasons" Greetings to the List, I have been given the delightful experience of being allowed to = read=11'Across the Seasons'=12 by Laura Rugel Glise.=20 This book is a love story as wild and as free as the Rocky Mountains = must have been in the year of 1838. Sarah Hanley, art history professor at Emory University in Atlanta, = has one regret, she was cheated out of a trek into the Wind River area = in Wyoming. Now, nearly 20 years and one mystical experience later, she = is about to have her dream come true. Miss Glise paints a vivid and very vital portrayal of the characters = in her story. Osborne Russell was outstanding in his capacity for = interpreting in detail the newness of the world around him. He portrays = the Shining Mountains as if they were a character in themselves, his = journal attests to that.=20 As Russell comes to life on the pages of this book, I found him to = have an innocent charm and raw appeal that deems him to be irresistible. = Miss Glise shows an overwhelming respect for Mr. Russell and his = comrades. I believe that for Historical Re-enactors, it is not a hard task to = allow one's=12mind to be sent back in time, is that not the fruit we = find in our labor?=20 In reading=11'Across the Seasons'=12 I was immediately transfixed and = swept away on a wild ride into the heart of the 1838 Rendezvous. I do = not claim to know my history, however I do know a good historical = fantasy when I read one.=20 This book is a damn good read, with descriptions as articulate and = smooth as butter off a warm knife. I can guarantee that it will spark lively conversation with those = lucky enough to read it, also, that a wee bit of controversy will arise = from it's pages. Respectfully, Julie - ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BF3C41.5D3BBC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Folks,
If you check over on the Auction Site, www.wesnet.com/deforg= e1/Auction.htm,=20 you will find that the manuscript to Across the Seasons is still = unsold. =20 There is a healthy bid on it, but Laura has promised to send a copy of = the book=20 (when it is published) to who ever buys the manuscript....as a=20 bonus.   This is a generous donation to AMM, as are all the = other=20 items offered on the auction.  Check it out.  Now.
YMOS
Lanney Ratcliff
ps:  Particularly check out John Kramer's  great offer = for his=20 excellent wood treatment.  I bought a bottle at full price,and = would do it=20 again (and will when I use up this bottle) and have found it to be = amazing=20 stuff.  Hell, it's probably good on biscuits!!  This is the = last week=20 to contribute to AMM and to pick up some good plunder, so click over = there and=20 shoot a bid. 
pps:  Hats off to Dennis Miles for messing with the = Auction. =20 Call him up and buy a knife or a striker or something.
From:=20 Julia=20 Sirovetz
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, = 1999 8:44=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List:"Across the = Seasons"

Greetings to the List,

I have been given the = delightful=20 experience of being allowed to read=11'Across the Seasons'=12 by Laura = Rugel=20 Glise.

This book is a love story as wild and as free as the = Rocky=20 Mountains must have been
in the year of 1838.

Sarah Hanley, = art=20 history professor at Emory University in Atlanta, has one regret, she = was=20 cheated out of a trek into the Wind River area in Wyoming. Now, nearly = 20=20 years and one mystical experience later, she is about to have her = dream come=20 true.

Miss Glise paints a vivid and very vital portrayal of the = characters in her story. Osborne Russell was outstanding in his = capacity for=20 interpreting in detail the newness of the world around him. He = portrays the=20 Shining Mountains as if they were a character in themselves, his = journal=20 attests to that.

As Russell comes to life on the pages of this = book, I=20 found him to have an innocent charm and raw appeal that deems him to = be=20 irresistible. Miss Glise shows an overwhelming respect for Mr. Russell = and his=20 comrades.

I believe that for Historical Re-enactors, it is not = a hard=20 task to allow one's=12mind to be sent back in time, is that not the = fruit we=20 find in our labor?

In reading=11'Across the Seasons'=12 I was = immediately=20 transfixed and swept away on a wild ride into the heart of the 1838=20 Rendezvous. I do not claim to know my history, however I do know a = good=20 historical fantasy when I read one.

This book is a damn good = read,=20 with descriptions as articulate and smooth as butter off a warm=20 knife.

I can guarantee that it will spark lively conversation = with=20 those lucky enough to read it, also, that a wee bit of controversy = will arise=20 from it's = pages.

Respectfully,
Julie
- ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BF3C41.5D3BBC80-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:20:44 -0700 From: Joe Brandl Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shoes Todd, I usually have buffalo scraps. Like right now I just finished 5 pair of buffalo mocs. I cut up the back halves after tanning them. Enough buffalo for a pair of ankle moccs size 10 - 11 would run $25. Let me know. I add a 2 inch cuff around most of mine, unless the customer wants a higher one. Joe Check out our web site at: www.wy-biz.com/absarokawesterndesigns/index.html Try our great Home Tanning Kit for $39.95, based on 20 years of tanning Rawhide lampshades, buffalo hides, lodgepole furniture, furs & leather Give us a call? - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:26:34 -0700 From: Joe Brandl Subject: MtMan-List: moccs Few if any rawhide soled moccs were ever worn at a rendezvous before 1850. A piece of leather would of been sewn to the bottom of side seam, center seam, pucker toe, etc. Joe Check out our web site at: www.wy-biz.com/absarokawesterndesigns/index.html Try our great Home Tanning Kit for $39.95, based on 20 years of tanning Rawhide lampshades, buffalo hides, lodgepole furniture, furs & leather Give us a call? - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 21:43:02 -0600 From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trap Discussion I have two of the Arrow Head Forge five pound traps. They are very good = copies of the trap shown on page 102 of Firearms, Traps & Tools of the = Mountain Men. The have forged chains and cost less than $100. They use = commercial springs, but I can live with them. Rod Douglas's traps are = works of art and cost MORE that $100, but are superior in every way. = You pays your money and takes your choice. Lanney Ratcliff - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Buck To: Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 1:29 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trap Discussion >=20 > > >Let's talk traps. I note in Carl Russell's book that Victor traps = dated > > >back only to around 1886 but they are still (I think) making traps = today. >=20 > > >My questions: >=20 > > >2) Alternately, are there any current trap builders who supply a = historically correct trap in the 3-4 lb range? >=20 >=20 > "Arrow Head Forge" has a good looking period trap available. >=20 >=20 > Later, > Buck Conner > _________________________________ > Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html > Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ > AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html > _________________________________ > Aux Ailments de Pays! >=20 > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account = http://www.uswestmail.net >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:29:00 -0700 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shoes Todd, My vote for the most common coverings for the average western adventurers- side seams. Why? Most (what few there are) explainations of foot wear tell of them being made of one piece of leather. This with examples of Indian made foot wear of the time show a large number of side seams in the Rocky Mountians. I will do some checking and see if I can come up with a reference or two for you. Well, this turned out easiler than I thought in "Rocky Mountain Life" Rufus Sage, pages 154 and 155. "During the succeeding internal we were variously occupied in hunting, root digging and moccasin making. The latter is a business in which every mountaineer is necessarilly a proficient, and rarely will he venture upon a long journey without the appurtenances of his profession. The process of shoe making with him is reduced to its most simple form. He merely takes two pieces (one for each foot- my comment) of buffalo (or any other suitible) skin, each being a little longer and wider than his foot, particularly towards the heel; these he folds separately, and lays then together parrallel with the turned edges; then rounding and trimming the sides, to render them foot shaped, with an awl and the sinew of buffalo or other animal, or small strips of thin deer skin ("whang") he sews the vamps from end to end- then after cutting a tongue like appendage in the upper side, midway from heel to toe and stiching together the posterior parts, his task is done." A fine rare example of a mountaineer's moc! Farseer wrote: > Okay, I've read and seen a lot of references to moccasins for fur trade > recreation. Which type? I've made some puckered vamp mocs, like Miller > describes, but I've also seen folks wearing eastern center seams, and also > hard soled (rawhide it looked like) mocs. Assuming it's about 1820, and > I'm in St Joseph, or Robidaux if you prefer, What are the correct type of > mocs? References would be great, as well as advice. At this point, I'm > working on a second pair of pucker vamps out of buffalo for summer, and a > pair out of sheepskin with the wool on for winter wear. I'd love to find > a couple of square feet of hair on buffalo for the winter pair, but no luck > so far. > > Todd > (who freely admits to being a greenhorn and still don't have a spiffy name) > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:33:58 -0700 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shoes Joe, Is the offer you made to Todd open for all? I take it this leather is hair off? Is it shaved? What color can we expect it be look like? Sorry, I ask alot of questions. I might be interested if you are offering this to the members of the list. Contact me. mike. Joe Brandl wrote: > Todd, > I usually have buffalo scraps. Like right now I just finished 5 pair > of buffalo mocs. I cut up the back halves after tanning them. Enough > buffalo for a pair of ankle moccs size 10 - 11 would run $25. Let me > know. I add a 2 inch cuff around most of mine, unless the customer > wants a higher one. > Joe > Check out our web site at: www.wy-biz.com/absarokawesterndesigns/index.html > Try our great Home Tanning Kit for $39.95, based on 20 years of tanning > Rawhide lampshades, buffalo hides, lodgepole furniture, furs & leather > Give us a call? > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:49:49 -0500 (EST) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: a week in the wilds of Idaho Capt., Thanks again for sharing. you sure have a talent for capturing fine details and translating them to words, as some others in the camp no doubt have also. [btw: is your rifle an antique or was your rifle custom built?, i.e., first time heard of that name and being .62]. - ----------------------------------- from Michigan Territory - ----------------------------------- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #417 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.