From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #431 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, December 22 1999 Volume 01 : Number 431 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: brain tan -       Re: MtMan-List: question -       Re: MtMan-List: Fw: A Simple But Touching Story -       Re: MtMan-List: brain tan -       Re: MtMan-List: question -       Re: MtMan-List: question -       MtMan-List: A Note of Thanks -       Re: MtMan-List: A Note of Thanks -       MtMan-List: A Simple but Touching Story -       Re: MtMan-List: Fw: A Simple But Touching Story -       Re: MtMan-List: A Simple but Touching Story -       MtMan-List: Happy Holidays -       MtMan-List: Another Note of Thanks -       Re: [Re: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements] -       Re: MtMan-List: Happy Holidays [OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: question -       RE: MtMan-List: Archives? -       Re: MtMan-List: Happy Holidays [OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: Happy Holidays -       MtMan-List: Very Well Spoken! -       MtMan-List: Lacing leather clothing -       Re: MtMan-List: question, thoughts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 22:51:13 -0600 From: Jim Colburn Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan Washtahay- At 07:03 PM 12/20/99 -0800, Capt. Lahti wrote: >snip< >Perhaps that is not the lesson you should learn. I submit, from what I >have seen you write, that what you need to learn is how to have >discussions on this topic. You might well be right. For instance, I hardly expected a coherent response after your earlier response to Ratcliff's deliberate misquote. Today is just full of surprises! >I read down through your resume and find no >mention of communication skills. Let me see if I have this straight. I answered a question regarded my qualifications, and now am being attacked based on my having qualifications? It is more than likely that I have a communication problem in the context of the modern world. I am inclined to accept that people will behave in line with their stated code, and yes-I do get perturbed when they don't. >I'm >wondering what is behind the contentional/confrontational tone of your >musings? >Another question comes to mind. Why haven't you joined the organization >and made good faith efforts to change what you see wrong from within? Capt., I have always had a fairly high opinion of your judgement, so I leave this up to you. Do you want the answer to these questions and the remainder of your letter answered on-list? LongWalker c. du B. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 01:16:05 EST From: DickSummers@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question I believe we have a certain "historical" perception regarding what a mountaineer would do -- reenact --- get on the Internet -- things you pose. I am not sure we can guess what the men we celebrate as heroes would do. It strikes me that what we might presuppose men that lived in the Shining Mountains during the fur trade would do thereafter is our folly. We might guess that men that lived by their wits, in solitary congregations might live solitary lives when they left the mountains. If you follow the footsteps of Meek, Ermatinger, Newell, and Rusell, you will find men that when they left the mountains they participated in organizations that formed the first provisional government west of the Rocky Mountains. Russell stood with his bretheren, and Joseph Gale -- a man that sent him to an uncertain future -- and formed an alliance that is a part of history. What experience of living in the mountains prepared these men for leaving the mountains and forming a cooperative alliance that carried American history to another level? Brotherhood? Perhaps. Dick Summers - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:35:29 -0500 From: ad.miller@mindspring.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: A Simple But Touching Story Thanks John, for that WONDERFUL story. 'Nuff said! Ad Miller >I think it's time to change the tone of this "thread" to something a little >more seasonal........what say ye all?? - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:57:22 -0800 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan Jim Colburn wrote: > Capt., I have always had a fairly high opinion of your judgement, so I > leave this up to you. Do you want the answer to these questions and the > remainder of your letter answered on-list? Mister Colburn, By all means, address your answers and opinion of me on list for the benefit of those who have not already the answers nor formed an opinion. You will excuse me of course. I have more pressing matters to attend to and I yield the field to you. You will have the last word between us. I remain...... Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:08:36 -0800 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question DickSummers@aol.com wrote: > What experience of living in the mountains prepared these men for leaving the > mountains and forming a cooperative alliance that carried American history to > another level? > > Brotherhood? Perhaps. Dick, I found your remarks illuminating and perceptive. It begs further investigation and discussion which I do not feel adequate to address. It does explain why societal gatherings and fraternal groupings of like minded men is so necessary, so common, quit natural and generally healthful for the human condition. Thank you for your insight. I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:11:54 -0800 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question Dick, I'd call it perhaps nothing more than surviving in numbers. Loners did not usually last long. I personally would not attribute "brotherhood" to any part of what held a fur company together....if that's your question. Friendships quite obviously developed but there was nothing fraternal in the trapping industry....as I see it. John Funk - ----- Original Message ----- From: R Lahti To: Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:08 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question > > > DickSummers@aol.com wrote: > > > What experience of living in the mountains prepared these men for leaving the > > mountains and forming a cooperative alliance that carried American history to > > another level? > > > > Brotherhood? Perhaps. > > Dick, > > I found your remarks illuminating and perceptive. It begs further > investigation and discussion which I do not feel adequate to address. It > does explain why societal gatherings and fraternal groupings of like > minded men is so necessary, so common, quit natural and generally > healthful for the human condition. Thank you for your insight. I > remain.... > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:25:10 -0800 From: Pat Quilter Subject: MtMan-List: A Note of Thanks I regret (especially at this time of year) that several good men have gotten into a flame war, especially as it involves the American Mountain Men of which I am proud to be a member. I would like to state for the record that I have participated in this list for some time, and always enjoy and appreciate the contributions of Mssr Longwalker Courier de Bois. I have not met the man personally, but judging by his writings he takes a deep interest in our time period, does his research well, and interprets the results intelligently. I believe it is to his credit that he also seeks as much field experience as possible. I cannot speak for the entire AMM, but personally I value good research, especially in an area (the Canadian fur trade) which is closely associated with the "golden age" of the American fur trappers. The AMM, like any largish group, has people at various skill levels, and it is fair to say that some go farther than others, indeed, as their "comfort levels" dictate. I am also sorry to say that some fall short in simple and unnecessary ways, although many would forgive them in the spirit of brotherhood. Some of us are more concerned with "getting out" and some are more fascinated by the details of gear and skills. I myself, being pretty much a "city boy" have enjoyed experiences and brotherhood which I never thought possible, but I am aware that my wilderness skills cannot be compared to one who grew up in, or spent years in, the great outdoors far from civilization. I believe all of us on this list are seeking to understand this experience, but of course, it is practically impossible today with boundaries, conservation laws, and mechanical intrusions from high and low. We can relive the glory for a few days or even weeks, and we can gain some degree of the self confidence and resiliance which comes from mastering simple equipment to do a complicated task (surviving in the wilderness). The founding member of the AMM, Walt Hayward, is still alive and active. He established the principles of survivalism, historical accuracy, and brotherhood as the basis of the AMM. These simple premises generate much discussion. Does "pure survivalism" contradict "perfect accuracy" when faced with the need to process water or seek modern medical assistance? The ultimate objective is self-reliance and independence of mind, in all areas of our life, modern as well as historical. I would not presume to put words in the mouth of other AMM members, but it should be understood that "getting out and doing it" is a core value, which sets the AMM apart from "Historical Re-enactors" such as the Mansker's Station group which seeks the best possible historical accuracy, supported by multiple references, with strict rules and a juried selection process. The AMM has a selection process as well, but it seeks to evaluate the spirit and interest of the prospect, and looks for growth in skills and accuracy rather than perfection. Does our process occasionally misfire -- do members sometimes slack off -- you bet. We're human like anyone else, but we are a brotherhood and defend our own. Many AMM members have found it difficult to get out as often as desired -- it's a common problem in this modern world, and some of us may even be sensitive about it. So my hat is off to anyone who wants to get out frequently, and I for one would like to thank LongWalker C d B for his frequent contributions to this list. I would also agree that we should all read the words posted here with some care, as it is a sorrowing thing to see proud men shouting past each other. This is a written forum, and the rules of engagement are different than a spirited discussion around a fire, where hasty words or misunderstandings can be corrected on the spot. My best wishes for a merry Christmas and a spectacular new year. It should be a clear night tomorrow, here in Southern California, and I plan to be out with friends singing Christmas Carols under the brightest full moon of the century. Respectfully Submitted Patrick Quilter AMM #1658. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:21:58 EST From: BarneyPFife@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A Note of Thanks Amen Pat. You too are to be commended for your contributions to the list, most especially this last one. Joy to all, and may each and every one of you and yours have a wonderful, healthy, properous holiday season. Barn - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:33:13 -0500 From: "John L. Allen" Subject: MtMan-List: A Simple but Touching Story Dear Mr. Funk, I like to think of myself as pretty hard-bitten and crusty. But by the time I'd finished your story I was close to bawling. May have been touching but it sure as hell wasn't simple. Many, many thanks for helping us remember what Christmas is all about--whatever one's religious persuasion or lack thereof. Blessing of the season to one and all. John Allen ******************************************************************* Dr. John L. Allen 21 Thomas Drive Storrs, CT 06268 860/487-1346 johnlallen@uconn.cted.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:12:10 EST From: RangerSF5@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: A Simple But Touching Story In a message dated 12/21/99 10:33:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, ad.miller@mindspring.com writes: << Thanks John, for that WONDERFUL story. 'Nuff said! >> Hi Everyone, Somewhere I missed that story.Can someone please forwarded it to me? Thank You Bob Bordentown,NJ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:32:12 -0800 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A Simple but Touching Story Dr. Allen, Tis my contribution to you all. May it put all out hearts in the right place. Thank you for your kind words. We all need that message from time to time. John Funk - ----- Original Message ----- From: John L. Allen To: Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 12:33 PM Subject: MtMan-List: A Simple but Touching Story > Dear Mr. Funk, > > I like to think of myself as pretty hard-bitten and crusty. But by the time > I'd finished your story I was close to bawling. May have been touching but > it sure as hell wasn't simple. Many, many thanks for helping us remember > what Christmas is all about--whatever one's religious persuasion or lack > thereof. > > Blessing of the season to one and all. > > John Allen > > ******************************************************************* > Dr. John L. Allen > 21 Thomas Drive > Storrs, CT 06268 > 860/487-1346 > johnlallen@uconn.cted.net > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:11:02 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: MtMan-List: Happy Holidays Monsieur Funk, A wonderful tale. Thank you. May all on this list have a most joyous holiday season, and their families, extended and otherwise do the same. Dog, Gabe's Hole Brig. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 21:20:51 -0500 From: tom roberts Subject: MtMan-List: Another Note of Thanks Pat, I commend you on your gracious words and thoughts. You have accomplished what several of us (I am certain) were contemplating, which is to provide a kind and thoughtful closure to this topic. There is no one on this (or the other) list who cannot contribute in some way for the betterment of all. Thank you for reminding all of us that who we are is so much more important than what skills or equipment we may or may not posess. The written word is powerful indeed and so easily misused. Thank you for using words wisely! Tom pilgrim - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:42:36 -0800 From: "DRB Hays" Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements] are there any AMM members in or around Chico, California ? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Concho Smith" To: Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements] > YEEEHA! Now that's what I call a spirited discussion! > > There are a lot of people that do a lot of research > about a lot of things. They become experts in the > field, and know so much more than the average guy, and > gain such high opinions of themselves that they just > bore the shit out of everyone else who is in the area > of expertise. They suck the joy out of the activity > like a cold breeze will take thge light from a candle! > I too have seen examples of the improper gear > referred to, usually on pilgrims who are still > learning. It is up to the experienced hands to point > things like this out, but I hated to see dog soldiers > inspecting everything brought into camp. The orange > buckskins, filter tip smokes, bic lighters and such > certainly should not be there, but it is up to those > members with experience to show the proper way. > That is how we ALL learned. Show me a man who > makes no mistakes, and I'll show you a man who is too > boring to be around. Dog, G.H.B., Wyoming > > __________________________________________________ Brother, Well put, we all have been there, but for some reason some seem to forget - everyone has to crawl before they walk and then run - remember this. Over the last forty years I have had some of the best garage sales, moving out items that I thought where really great and later found to be the wrong time period, or just wrong - period. I can take comfort in knowing that I told the buyer that was for such and such a period, or not correct if wanting to use it for such and such - be honest, just don't pass it on to a new person. When we stop learning or helping others in this sport, I'll move on. Later, Buck Conner _________________________________ Well it's about time Buck, where the heck you been, Dennis Miles and your truly thought you got lost. Agree with you a 100% , all the AMM members I've run across in the last 25 plus years do pretty much as you say, they teach and try and help where they can. Have a great Holiday folks. Concho. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 1999 18:46:21 -0800 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Happy Holidays [OFF TOPIC] On Tue, 21 December 1999, Ronald Schrotter wrote: > Monsieur Funk, > A wonderful tale. Thank you. May all on this list > have a most joyous holiday season, and their families, > extended and otherwise do the same. Dog, Gabe's Hole > Brig. > > __________________________________________________ > __________________________________________________ A little off topic but a great Christmas story for the boys, and one you'll enjoy. Here’s a true story that happen just yesterday in the Littleton, Colorado area, not the usual Columbine thing again. I was reading the local paper this morning and about 7-8 pages front the front was a small article about a Hair Saloon being robbed last night around 6:30 PM. I took a second look at the address, hell that’s the wife’s place she goes to, and we’re going there after work for her to get her hair trimmed. The article didn’t give much detail other than the bad guys where white in their late twenties. When she goes for her hair cuts, trims, etc., I usually sit in the truck and watch the young ladies go in and out of the shop, a pleasing past time and with the dark windows you don’t get the dirty looks. I know "dirty old man". Well tonight I had to go in to hear about what happened last night, the young lady at the counter was more than willing to tell her exciting tale. Here’s what happened: there where about a half dozen gals counting the ones that work there, busy with whatever they do in these places - when two white males wearing sunglasses come into the place. They sit down watch what's going on then pull guns (still sitting) and have everyone line up in front of them, they collect all the money and credit cards, then the good part. These young gentlemen are thinkers, they have the whole group disrobe, putting their clothes on a sheet. They have everyone stand in a group and bring out a digital camera and take a few pictures. They thanks all the ladies, gather up the money, credit cards and the clothes and walk out. The young lady said the first thing they did was lock the door, turn out the lights and hide behind the counter. Finally someone says “call the cops”, but decided to call their spouces first for clothes then call the police. She said after being clothed and the police came, they had decided the insurance would cover everyone’s losts and when questioned gave a very bland description of the holdup men. She said they where worried about the police getting hold of those pictures, more than those guys being caught. She figured they could have walked 10 miles before the cops got there. "Damn it, a day late and dollar short again". Later, Buck Conner _________________________________ Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html _________________________________ Aux Ailments de Pays! Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 20:54:09 -0600 From: "Texan" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question Mr. Summers, I agree with the Captain that your remarks are illuminating and perceptive. I refer to your question "what experience of living in the mountains prepared these men for leaving the mountains and forming a cooperative alliance that carried American history to another level?" Without a doubt, the attributes that MM develop while living in the mountains would be welcome in any organization. However, I respectfully submit that MM are INHERENTLY leaders whether in the mountains or in corporate America. I believe that all MM, from all walks of life and all levels of skills, AMM or no, represent the cream of the crop of the men in America and will be called to leadership positions to "carry American history to another level" in America's difficult years ahead. Mr. Quilter, I second Mr. Robert's thank you for your gracious words and sound perspective. Please bless us again with your thoughts. Texan - -----Original Message----- From: R Lahti To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 12:07 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question > > >DickSummers@aol.com wrote: > >> What experience of living in the mountains prepared these men for leaving the >> mountains and forming a cooperative alliance that carried American history to >> another level? >> >> Brotherhood? Perhaps. > >Dick, > >I found your remarks illuminating and perceptive. It begs further >investigation and discussion which I do not feel adequate to address. It >does explain why societal gatherings and fraternal groupings of like >minded men is so necessary, so common, quit natural and generally >healthful for the human condition. Thank you for your insight. I >remain.... > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 20:56:31 -0600 From: farseer Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Archives? Thanks much!!! I had saved a bunch of stuff on winter camping, and blankets, and hunting pouches etc, and losing them was the worst thing about losing that durn drive. Everything else I could replace. Thanks again. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Ron Chamberlain > Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 10:33 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Archives? > > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > cstmzd@ida.net > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: farseer > To: MtMan > Date: Monday, December 20, 1999 8:06 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Archives? > > > >AGGHHH!! My hard drive went under, and I lost a number of posts I'd been > >savin for future reference. Is there an archive someplace? I dimly > >recollect seeing mention of one. Any help would be appreciated. > > > > > >todd > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:13:57 -0800 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Happy Holidays [OFF TOPIC] Buck, Gotta to tell ya my friend..... I'm a retired "cop"...actually a Deputy Sheriff...Sergeant. Always told my guys....your damned if ya do and damned if ya don't!!! And...."if ya wanted 'love' ya should have been a fireman". Guess your story confirmed that!! Can't really say I enjoyed the "story". MANY times I've found myself tied up in 'other' situations that the caller felt was just as important and could not get to the things that "I" felt really required immediate attention. Call it budget, lack of personnel, call it to many people that had 'problems' that they seemed to require our "IMMEDIATE" attention, whatever!!! There is nothing more frustrating to a dedicated "peace officer" than being needed in another place than where he or she is. No disrespect intended. I feel your frustration....really I do, as I'm sure the local dedicated "cops" do. John Funk - ----- Original Message ----- From: Buck To: Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:46 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Happy Holidays [OFF TOPIC] > On Tue, 21 December 1999, Ronald Schrotter wrote: > > Monsieur Funk, > > A wonderful tale. Thank you. May all on this list > > have a most joyous holiday season, and their families, > > extended and otherwise do the same. Dog, Gabe's Hole > > Brig. > > > > __________________________________________________ > > __________________________________________________ > > > A little off topic but a great Christmas story for the boys, and one you'll enjoy. > > Here's a true story that happen just yesterday in the Littleton, Colorado area, not the usual Columbine > thing again. > > I was reading the local paper this morning and about 7-8 pages front the front was a small article about a Hair Saloon being robbed last night around 6:30 PM. > > I took a second look at the address, hell that's the wife's place she goes to, and we're going there after work for her to get her hair trimmed. The article didn't give much detail other than the bad guys where white in their late twenties. > > When she goes for her hair cuts, trims, etc., I usually sit in the truck and watch the young ladies go in and out of the shop, a pleasing past time and with the dark windows you don't get the dirty looks. I know "dirty old man". > > Well tonight I had to go in to hear about what happened last night, the young lady at the counter was more than willing to tell her exciting tale. > > Here's what happened: there where about a half dozen gals counting the ones that work there, busy with whatever they do in these places - when two white males wearing sunglasses come into the place. They sit down watch what's going on then pull guns (still sitting) and have everyone line up in front of them, they collect all the money and credit cards, then the good part. > > These young gentlemen are thinkers, they have the whole group disrobe, putting their clothes on a sheet. They have everyone stand in a group and bring out a digital camera and take a few pictures. They thanks all the ladies, gather up the money, credit cards and the clothes and walk out. > > The young lady said the first thing they did was lock the door, turn out the lights and hide behind the counter. Finally someone says "call the cops", but decided to call their spouces first for clothes then call the police. > > She said after being clothed and the police came, they had decided the insurance would cover everyone's losts and when questioned gave a very bland description of the holdup men. > > She said they where worried about the police getting hold of those pictures, more than those guys being caught. > > She figured they could have walked 10 miles before the cops got there. > > "Damn it, a day late and dollar short again". > > > > Later, > Buck Conner > _________________________________ > Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html > Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ > AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html > _________________________________ > Aux Ailments de Pays! > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:18:15 -0800 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Happy Holidays My thanks to you. It was for the benefit of all....this season. John Funk - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald Schrotter To: hist list Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:11 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Happy Holidays > Monsieur Funk, > A wonderful tale. Thank you. May all on this list > have a most joyous holiday season, and their families, > extended and otherwise do the same. Dog, Gabe's Hole > Brig. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. > Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 22:58:52 -0500 (EST) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: Very Well Spoken! Capt., Concho, Barn: have only been on the list since March 21 of this year, but can tell from the words that speak clearly like sharp iron from your soul that the brothers Concho mentioned (and others unnamed - pierce, kanger, bublitz, kramer, ...) have always been helpful in answering topic questions and just plain sharing-teaching their learnin. just my year end seasons thanks to all. Concho, Barn: do hope you get called into the AMM someday. am reminded of this saying in the Good Book [with an interpretation below it]: "No man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron." [Hebrews 5:4, KJV] No pilgrim JOINETH the AMM Brotherhood, only he that is CALLED of God the Great Spirit Father by an authorized AMM hiveranno? - ----------------------------------- from Michigan Territory - ----------------------------------- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:02:09 -0700 From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Lacing leather clothing This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF4B9A.72076FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ronald Schrotter wrote:=20 Finally, on the subject of thread, a lot of time can be saved by tying = sleeves and legs with the leather scraps left from trimming, spaced = several inches apart. Judging from what I have seen in museums it is = authentic and looks good too.=20 Without being confrontational I ask, does this refer to lacing? And is = lacing an acceptable way to assemble period leather clothing? I was of = the understanding that it was not. My last question about commercial = leather being acceptable kicked up a lot of heat and that was not my = intention. I admire the AMM and jus wanted to know.=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF4B9A.72076FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ronald Schrotter wrote:

Finally, on the subject of thread, a lot of time can be saved by = tying=20 sleeves and legs with the leather scraps left from trimming, spaced = several=20 inches apart. Judging from what I have seen in museums it is authentic = and looks=20 good too.

Without being confrontational I ask, does this refer to lacing? And = is lacing=20 an acceptable way to assemble period leather clothing? I was of the=20 understanding that it was not. My last question about commercial leather = being=20 acceptable kicked up a lot of heat and that was not my intention. I = admire the=20 AMM and jus wanted to know.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF4B9A.72076FC0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:18:51 -0600 From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question, thoughts - -----Original Message----- From: Bill Cunningham To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, December 20, 1999 10:51 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question >I think we're comparing apples and oranges here. Both round and edible, but >totally different. As well bring a prehistoric man here and try to make >comparisons with today's life styles. But your point is well taken. Since you bought it up, why don't we continue with that line of thinking for a moment. I believe it may strike to the heart of the matter I have raised by asking what I did. We aren't so much comparing apples to oranges as we are comparing apples from now to apples from back then. Many people agree that the first people to inhabit and live off the land that the mountain men subsequently explored and mapped lived approx. 13000 years ago and subsisted , as far as we know, primarily by hunting large paleo fauna like mammoths with spears. Some folks speculate, and there is circumstantial evidence, that they first traveled into north America via the Bering strait and Alaska through an ice free corridor that may have existed. Now what is interesting is that it has been accepted by many professionals that these first people traveled over, explored, most certainly mapped, and exploited the resources of,(some even think to the extinction of species), practically the entire continent in , what I consider, to be a very short time frame. Like 200 years. Two hundred years for small bands of individuals to travel over and explore most of the continental U.S. Can any similar comparisons be drawn to later time periods? Like the period from 1800-1850 for example? The scenario is interestingly similar. Small groups of men with vast amounts of unknown territory in front of them. New places to live with more game and possibly easier pickins.The pale hunters may not have been after beaver pelts but to say that they also had an economic incentives ,just as the fur trade provided later individuals, would be a fair statement. The influx of people from the eastern U.S. in the 19th century caused numbers of certain species to decline in exactly the same way many archeologists think the demise of certain paleo animals occurred. The early pioneers were effective hunters. My whole point is this. I can't help but to believe that the very first pioneers and trail breakers, who first explored the regions that the later fur trade encompassed were the same in many respects as the the folks that made the push to explore the same regions during the fur trade. Certain peculiar traits of human nature transcend race and time. The physical and moral qualities of the mountain men that I grew up reading about, and that made them my personal role models, were nothing new. These qualities were nesasary to them having been successful in there endeavors. Yes, I think the "spirit of the mountain man" has been around for a long, long time. Just as it is carried on by certain individuals today. Thankfully. The positive values that these mountain men, pioneers, explorers ,or whatever name you give them, these qualities that were "the most" important factor in the success or the failure of the tasks they chose to undertake, are what needs to be carried on. I believe that some of the present day folks who are carrying on the traditions I have been speaking about come from a wide range of social and economic conditions. I also believe that they don't all participate in living history or that the epitome of carrying on these traditions lie in that act. Maybe I am just trying to reconcile the fact that I don't, or can't, participate in an organization like the AMM, for example. However I don't feel like less of a man for it. It seems to me that a lot of folks kind of compete with each other to see who can dress in the most period correct fashion. Or have the most period correct outfit. Or be the most knowledgeable on period topics from first hand accounts. These are all admirable goals and an interesting way to pass the time. But those three things combined do not a mountain man make. Its more than that. I sincerely hope everyone the best of holidays, northwoods - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #431 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.