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Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #594
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hist_text-digest        Thursday, July 20 2000        Volume 01 : Number 594



In this issue:

-       MtMan-List: moulds
-       Re: MtMan-List: moulds
-       Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such
-       Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such
-       MtMan-List: Horses and such
-       Re: MtMan-List: moulds
-       Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such
-       Re: MtMan-List: Horses and such
-       MtMan-List: The Patriot
-       Re: MtMan-List: moulds
-       RE: MtMan-List: moulds
-       Re: MtMan-List: moulds
-       Re: MtMan-List: moulds
-       Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such
-       Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such
-       Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such
-       MtMan-List: Chris Gardner

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:22:40 -0500
From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: moulds

I'd like to pick up a bag-style mould in .490 calibre for my =
Pennsylvania. Which was more prevalent, brass or steel, and from a =
purely pragmatic stance, which one holds up better under use?    I've =
got Rapine's catlog, and I've also heard tell that Dixie makes a good =
kentucky-style brass mould.    Does anyone have any experiences or =
preferences either way?

YMOS: Todd


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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:34:56 -0400
From: tom roberts <troberts@gdi.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: moulds

Not sure about prevalent, but seeing as steel is harder than
brass, that would be my first choice.  I'm using a steel .535
mold which works just fine but mine doesn't have a lot of
miles on it yet.   One could argue that any metal who's melting
temperature is higher than lead would suffice but I'd
still go for the stronger one as it will tolerate more abuse.

Just a 2 cent opinion,

Tom


Todd wrote:

> I'd like to pick up a bag-style mould in .490 calibre for my Pennsylvania. Which was more prevalent, brass or steel, and from a purely pragmatic stance, which one holds up better under use?    I've got Rapine's catlog, and I've also heard tell that Dixie makes a good kentucky-style brass mould.    Does anyone have any experiences or preferences either way?
>
> YMOS: Todd
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:37:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, John C. Funk, Jr. wrote:
> Whitney's or a Hudson Bay is a good choice for a saddle blanket.  The pure
> wool aspect serves as great protection and comfort for the critter. That's
> assuming you don't mind sleeping with a little horse sweat at night.

John

After a lifetime in the saddle, the smell of horse sweat is more like a
relaxing incense than a disagreeble oder<G>  Not sure what the wife will
say though, but she has put up with far worse having been married to this
kid for 19 years... and she hasn't shown any signs of bailing.

Your Most Obedient Servant...
 
Lee Newbill of North Idaho
Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
www.geocities.com/northscribe




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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:41:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <zaz@pop.pacificnet.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

Lee,

I ride a Spanish Gourdhorn Saddle that was built on the description of a
saddle that Jed Smith acquired while in California in 1826 or 27.  This is
the only saddle I use.  It has no padding or sheepskin on the undersurfaces
and as such, this is how I've set it up to keep it from slipping.  I use a
Belgian Army blanket directly on my horse's back that is thick, like a
Whitney, but much less expensive.  Then on top of that I put a small modern
round pad (about the size of the saddle) and then on top of that goes a
course Mexican blanket to cover the pad.  In addition I use an old style
breast collar to keep the saddle from slipping back when going up hills.
Except for my modern saddle pad, everything else (saddle and tack) is period
correct.

I've had the saddle about 4 years now and use it every weekend (both
Saturdays and Sundays) on trail rides that usually last between 2 to 5 hours
through moderate to difficult terrain.  After much experimentation I've
found this setup to work the best for me and my horse.  Even though it's not
100% correct (because of the pad), the pad is completely covered and it
really keeps my horse's back from getting sore (which is my main concern);
he has never had a back problem or saddle sores in the 5 years I've been
riding him.  I think whatever works to keep the horse healthy and
comfortable is more important than being 100% correct.

That's how I do it and had much success.  Just my opinion.

Best Regards,

Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
________________________________________________________________________________

At 11:35 PM 07/17/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>On Sun, 16 Jul 2000, John C. Funk, Jr. wrote:
>>    "Many of the Spanish saddles that the American Fur Company  obtained in
>> St. Louis in the 1830s seem to have had padding on the undersurfaces of the
>> saddleboards, at least at the time of purchase".
>
>Hallo John
>
>Reading the notes of a professional saddlemaker (contemporary), he states
>that his first Hope saddles didn't have any thing between them and the
>pad, but he changed over and started putting fleece on the underside.  The
>reason he did this was because without the fleece, the saddles had a
>tendacy to "wander" on the horse's back.  The fleece apparently
>"locks" the saddle to the pad/blanket
>
>Having been the recipiant of at least one "wandering" saddle on a round
>backed horse, I can understand why it's there<G>
>
>Which brings me to a second question that I hadn't even thought
>of... saddle blankets.  How many of y'all throw a Hudson's or a Witney
>under the saddle?  What are you using?
>
>For what it's worth....
>
>Your Most Obedient Servant...
> 
>Lee Newbill of North Idaho
>Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
>www.geocities.com/northscribe
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:59:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Darrel William Grubbs <grubbsd@rocketmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Horses and such

I have no problem putting a good blanket on or under a saddle... I use
some cheaper wool pblankets and then sleep on top of them if i have the
luxury of carrying a personal blamket just for me.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:10:18 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: moulds

Todd,

I have an original mold that looks much like what Rapine sells. I don't
recall seeing any originals in brass, thought there could be examples
around. I suspect that most were made of iron in the same way that they are
still made today in Colonial Williamsburg. For accuracy, authenticity and
longevity go with iron. I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'



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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:29:26 -0700
From: "Larry Huber" <shootsprairie@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

Jerry,
    Have you tried any other "period" methods on your horse for replacing
the pad?  In five years of use, the pad obviously works but does anything
else?  Or is the only thing you've tried?  Just curious.

Larry

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <zaz@pop.pacificnet.net>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such


> Lee,
>
> I ride a Spanish Gourdhorn Saddle that was built on the description of a
> saddle that Jed Smith acquired while in California in 1826 or 27.  This is
> the only saddle I use.  It has no padding or sheepskin on the
undersurfaces
> and as such, this is how I've set it up to keep it from slipping.  I use a
> Belgian Army blanket directly on my horse's back that is thick, like a
> Whitney, but much less expensive.  Then on top of that I put a small
modern
> round pad (about the size of the saddle) and then on top of that goes a
> course Mexican blanket to cover the pad.  In addition I use an old style
> breast collar to keep the saddle from slipping back when going up hills.
> Except for my modern saddle pad, everything else (saddle and tack) is
period
> correct.
>
> I've had the saddle about 4 years now and use it every weekend (both
> Saturdays and Sundays) on trail rides that usually last between 2 to 5
hours
> through moderate to difficult terrain.  After much experimentation I've
> found this setup to work the best for me and my horse.  Even though it's
not
> 100% correct (because of the pad), the pad is completely covered and it
> really keeps my horse's back from getting sore (which is my main concern);
> he has never had a back problem or saddle sores in the 5 years I've been
> riding him.  I think whatever works to keep the horse healthy and
> comfortable is more important than being 100% correct.
>
> That's how I do it and had much success.  Just my opinion.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488
>
____________________________________________________________________________
____
>
> At 11:35 PM 07/17/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> >On Sun, 16 Jul 2000, John C. Funk, Jr. wrote:
> >>    "Many of the Spanish saddles that the American Fur Company  obtained
in
> >> St. Louis in the 1830s seem to have had padding on the undersurfaces of
the
> >> saddleboards, at least at the time of purchase".
> >
> >Hallo John
> >
> >Reading the notes of a professional saddlemaker (contemporary), he states
> >that his first Hope saddles didn't have any thing between them and the
> >pad, but he changed over and started putting fleece on the underside.
The
> >reason he did this was because without the fleece, the saddles had a
> >tendacy to "wander" on the horse's back.  The fleece apparently
> >"locks" the saddle to the pad/blanket
> >
> >Having been the recipiant of at least one "wandering" saddle on a round
> >backed horse, I can understand why it's there<G>
> >
> >Which brings me to a second question that I hadn't even thought
> >of... saddle blankets.  How many of y'all throw a Hudson's or a Witney
> >under the saddle?  What are you using?
> >
> >For what it's worth....
> >
> >Your Most Obedient Servant...
> >
> >Lee Newbill of North Idaho
> >Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
> >www.geocities.com/northscribe
> >
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:35:37 -0600
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horses and such

It is good to see a discussion of horses and their equipment. They were
very important in the west through all time peroids.
                                            mike.

Darrel William Grubbs wrote:

> I have no problem putting a good blanket on or under a saddle... I use
> some cheaper wool pblankets and then sleep on top of them if i have the
> luxury of carrying a personal blamket just for me.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get Yahoo! Mail =96 Free email you can access from anywhere!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:31:59 -0400
From: "Frank V. Rago" <ikon@mindspring.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: The Patriot

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BFF18E.190E97A0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This is a movie that is on my must see list but while at the theatre =
this afternoon I stopped and was looking at a poster of Mel charging =
forward with the flag.  Now I am one of those guys that enjoys picking =
things apart ie. equipment, clothing and such.  Well something did not =
look right with his feet.  I know this sounds weird but upon closer =
inspection Mel is wearing black soled sneakers with what looks like a =
leather covering over them.  Like the old pair of galoshis we use to =
wear in the rain.  His left foot looks as though it broke through the =
bottom of the fake leather boot, also look at his other boot, you can =
tell that it is not a real boot.

Right next to this poster was another pic of Mel standing there with the =
same style boots one, you can obviously tell they are not the same pair =
but with leather soles.  Just wondering if Mel can't run to well in =
boots.



- ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BFF18E.190E97A0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is a movie that is on my must see =
list but=20
while at the theatre this afternoon I stopped and was looking at a =
poster of Mel=20
charging forward with the flag.&nbsp; Now I am one of those guys that =
enjoys=20
picking things apart ie. equipment, clothing and such.&nbsp; Well =
something did=20
not look right with his feet.&nbsp; I know this sounds weird but upon =
closer=20
inspection Mel is wearing black soled sneakers with what looks like a =
leather=20
covering over them.&nbsp; Like the old pair of galoshis we use to wear =
in the=20
rain.&nbsp; His left foot looks as though it broke through the bottom of =
the=20
fake leather boot, also look at his other boot, you can tell that it is =
not a=20
real boot.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Right next to this poster was another =
pic of Mel=20
standing there with the same style boots one, you can obviously tell =
they are=20
not the same pair but with leather soles.&nbsp; Just wondering if Mel =
can't run=20
to well in boots.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BFF18E.190E97A0--


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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:03:36 EDT
From: NaugaMok@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: moulds

In a message dated 7/18/00 7:23:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
farseer@swbell.net writes:

<<  I've got Rapine's catlog, and I've also heard tell that Dixie makes a 
good kentucky-style brass mould. >>

Have tried both.  Go with Rapine.  Dixie's quality control on size sucks!  
The .440 I got from them throws .430 ball & has a dimple in the bottom.  The 
.490 from Dixie runs pretty close to proper size, but still has that dimple.  
The .600 Rapine throws proper size & it's round like it's supposed to be.  
Others I know who have Rapines & check their ball for proper size are happy 
with Rapine's work.

NM

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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:42:56 -0500
From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: moulds

'Nuff said, Rapine it is.   As always, I greatly appreciate the wisdom =
and advice.

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of =
NaugaMok@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 4:04 PM
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: moulds
>=20
>=20
> In a message dated 7/18/00 7:23:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,=20
> farseer@swbell.net writes:
>=20
> <<  I've got Rapine's catlog, and I've also heard tell that Dixie =
makes a=20
> good kentucky-style brass mould. >>
>=20
> Have tried both.  Go with Rapine.  Dixie's quality control on=20
> size sucks! =20
> The .440 I got from them throws .430 ball & has a dimple in the=20
> bottom.  The=20
> .490 from Dixie runs pretty close to proper size, but still has=20
> that dimple. =20
> The .600 Rapine throws proper size & it's round like it's=20
> supposed to be. =20
> Others I know who have Rapines & check their ball for proper size=20
> are happy=20
> with Rapine's work.
>=20
> NM
>=20
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>=20


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:27:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: moulds

> In a message dated 7/18/00 7:23:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
> farseer@swbell.net writes:
> <<  I've got Rapine's catlog, and I've also heard tell that Dixie makes a 
> good kentucky-style brass mould. >>

I own a Dixie mold... and the only thing I use if for is
demonstrations.  It casts a pre-wrinkled ball and the two sides are
ill-fitting.  My .02 worth.

Your Most Obedient Servant...
 
Lee Newbill of North Idaho
Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
www.geocities.com/northscribe


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:01:31 EDT
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: moulds

Ditto what NM says... brass Dixie mould i HAD in .530 left rings in two 
places from some piss-poor machining.  When I asked them about it they told 
me that all their molds have some irregularities, so I returned it and got a 
Rapine, which casts virtually perfect balls. Obviously much better quality 
control.  As far as brass vs. steel, don't see a distinct advantage other 
than the brass is lighter.  Either one will outlast any of us.   Barney

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:09:23 -0600
From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

Howdy Folks,

I use a army surplus blanket folded in half.  Inside that I have a 3 1/2
point Whitney. I'm careful to make sure that there are no wrinkles or folds.
The Bob Schmitt Ashley contract saddle goes on that.  There's no fleece or
anything else on the saddle. This set up has worked good on multiple day
rides, carrying all gear over Rocky Mountain terrain.  Others in my party
use the same basic setup.

Advantages are; it's period, it works, my horse had never sored up with it,
your bedroll behind the saddle is reduced in size, and you sleep in horse
sweaty blankets which is generally better than I smell after 5 days in the
saddle!

We're going out on another 5 day ride here in a couple of weeks and I'll
report back if anyone uses anything dramatically different or better on the
ride (or worse for that matter).

From Fort Hall country,

Allen


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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:45:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

Jerry, and others....

On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Jerry & Barbara Zaslow wrote:
> I ride a Spanish Gourdhorn Saddle that was built on the description of a
> saddle that Jed Smith acquired while in California in 1826 or 27.

If you have a picture you can scan and send it to me, I would like to see
some of the historical and reproduction saddles in use by the folks on
this list.  I would post these on my website to share if anyone else is
interested....

Your Most Obedient Servant...
 
Lee Newbill of North Idaho
Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
www.geocities.com/northscribe


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:11:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lee Newbill <lnewbill@uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saddles and Such

On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, Mike Moore wrote:
> How do you like to rig your
> horse?

Hallo again Mike

That's what I'm in the process of working out.  I spend a lot of time in
the mountains either going straight up or down.  I am currently using
either a Stueben english saddle with thick wool felt pad (not period), or
a western saddle with swelled fork and a modern wool pad.  I am going to
have to put breast collars on everything to keep the saddle from slipping
back on the upward lunges, but don't think a crupper is neccesary at this
time as I've never had a saddle slip forward.... yet.  

I am looking at replacing the felt pad with a folded blanket in the 3.5
point size, and getting a piece of buff hide to sit on.  I want the blanke
to go back far enough, and hang down low enough to keep bedrolls and
saddlebags from chaffing the hores's side.

Three pack rigs, two deckers, one sawbuck.  Am trying to trade the
older decker off for a reasonably good sawbuck so I will have two pack
rigs that will fit into the period of 1800.

One of the things I'm working on right now, is the saddle bags.
I've seen some pictures of english style saddles from the early
1800's, and the pictures show that portion of the leather
connecting the saddlebags with a horizontal split, so that the bags will
be held in place by the rise of the cantle, and the wieght of the
rider.  With an english rigging, I'm a little stumped as where to put the
bedroll since I wanted it behind me in it's traditional place,
but don't want the whole kit-and-caboodle coming apart in a
blow-up... nothing like a set of saddlebags and bedroll wrapped
around a freaked out horse's neck to really get things going.... more
research I reckon.

I have four horses, ages 25, 15(?), 5 and 6 monthes, all appaloosas, with
the 25 year old gelding and the 5 year old mare being designated the main
pack animals.  The stud colt just kinda wanders around in the back getting
into trouble at the moment.  Absolutely agree that the health of the horse
come before being absolutely period correct.  As the cost of a good horse
is running about the cost of two decent rifles, I can't afford to be
soring them up or eating them for dinner <G>

Yesterday, while on a training ride on the mare (just broke to saddle this
week), we dang near wound up at the bottom of cliff when she decided that
straight was no longer where she wanted to go... so maybe I'll add an
ejection seat to the line up <BG>

Your Most Obedient Servant...
 
Lee Newbill of North Idaho
Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders
www.geocities.com/northscribe


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 22:37:23 -0400
From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@brier.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Chris Gardner

Not sure how many of you knew Chris Gardner from the 'Vous and reenactments,
but it is my sad duty to tell you that he crossed the river Tuesday night.
He had been fighting leoukemia for quiite awhile and finally it won.  Keep
his wife Carol in your prayers, and speak a few words for Chris.

*raises his galss*  Chris, my friend, this one is for you... Keep the fire
going and the coffee hot for us when we get there...

Ad Miller
Alderson, WV


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