From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #633 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, September 26 2000 Volume 01 : Number 633 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Sashes (short) -       MtMan-List: hugh glass -       Re: MtMan-List: hugh glass -       RE: MtMan-List: hugh glass -       MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm -       Re: MtMan-List: Sashes (long) -       RE: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm -       Re: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm -       Re: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm -       Re: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm -       Re: MtMan-List: ibid? References -       Fw: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm -       Re: MtMan-List: Sashes -       Re: MtMan-List: Sashes -       Re: MtMan-List: Sashes -       MtMan-List: GUN REFRESHER COURSE -       Re: MtMan-List: Sashes -       Re: MtMan-List: rifle made of money -       RE: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 08:12:56 -0700 (PDT) From: S Jones Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes (short) Hate to bring the industrial revolution into this thread but a lot of factories needed conveyor belts and the cattle and buffalo herds filled the demand and more. The late mountain man era could see a supply of bark-tanned and oil-tanned leather for belts and such, no? Just curious. The eastern buffalo herds of the colonies/states were wiped out for many reasons, this be just one. - --- "Ole B. Jensen" wrote: > Gentelmen and Ladies, > Belt's,/Harness leather? they are the same, belts > were probably made from > harness leather and the buckels could have been > harness buckles!. Sashes can > be made from other things wrather than wool, such as > Hemp. What about rifle > slings? there are rifles shown hanging over the > shoulder, what are they made > from, could be leather, brain tan, sashe type > material, hemp or cotton > weebing. > What about silk scarves, made from? Silk worms in > the rockies? NO, trade > goods. The amount of trade goods and the locality of > trading > posts/forts/stockades made the avalibility of such > items much more avalible > then we think. One thing I keep thinking is that we > only see the tip of the > ice berg! when we look at trade lists and drawings, > there was much more than > that. there were also many players in this period of > time. > YMOS > Ole # 718 > ---------- > >From: "Larry Huber" > >To: > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes (long) > >Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000, 1:00 AM > > > > >Interesting topic! Did American Trappers of white > English/Celtic stock use > >sashes and garters? Probably not as a rule. If > we accept that woven > >cloth sashes/garters were used in the East in place > of tanned belt leather > >because they were cheaper and more easily attained, > this does not mean that > >this practice carried over into the Rocky > Mountains. First of all, sashes > >were made from readily attainable wool fiber in the > East, but this material > >would be non-existent in the mountains. Second, if > the rendezvous lists do > >not mention belt leather, where does it mention > woven sashes or wool thread > >to make same? I submit that brain tanned leather > was the most easily > >attainable "fabric" in the Rockies. It replaced > the cloth garments that > >rotted in the elements. I think it's safe to > assume this practice extended > >to the replacement of cloth sashes. The rendezvous > lists support this. > >Manufactured leather products like shoes and horse > tack made it to the > >Rockies because these items were somewhat difficult > to make. A leather belt > >is the simplest thing to make. All you need is a > sharp knife, awl, needle > >and thread...and, of course, a buckle. And buckles > were available from the > >traders that came to rendezvous. They didn't pack > in what didn't sell. > >Aside from horse tack, I'll bet those buckles went > on leather belts. > >Miller's paintings show "belts" with knives tucked > inside them. And the > >famous sketch of Stuart's French hunter, Antoine > Clement, clearly shows he > >preferred a leather belt with buckle over a woven > sash to hold his > >percussion pistol. > > > >Larry Huber ===== defstones "Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past, Wisdom is of the future." - -Native American Proverb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:22:21 MDT From: "Terrance Luff" Subject: MtMan-List: hugh glass ho mountian camp! i think i have some storys mixup. was it hugh glass than was caught by some hostals crossing the yellowsone on the ice. by ft. remon at the age of 65 years. later some of his goods turned up,in what camp? Thanks for your input hiverant metis bilgs,mt. ponyrider _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:59:29 -0700 From: Randal J Bublitz Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hugh glass Maximilian " Old Glass, with two companions, had gone from Ft. Cass to hunt beavers on the Yellowstone, and as they were crossing the river on the ice further down, they were all three shot, scalped and plundered by a war party of 30 Arikaras, who were concealed on the opposite bank" from The Saga of Hugh Glass by John MyersMyers , hardtack - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:24:01 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: hugh glass What happened to the part about blowing up a black powder keg and taking some of them with him? Walt ORMC 1836-1837 Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana - -----Original Message----- From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Randal J Bublitz Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 3:59 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hugh glass Maximilian " Old Glass, with two companions, had gone from Ft. Cass to hunt beavers on the Yellowstone, and as they were crossing the river on the ice further down, they were all three shot, scalped and plundered by a war party of 30 Arikaras, who were concealed on the opposite bank" from The Saga of Hugh Glass by John MyersMyers , hardtack - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:37:31 EDT From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm Ho' Mtn.Camp, Since I am new to the hills and am just gettin' the green wored off I got a few questions to be askin'. Fust, any one of you coons got any know how 'bout puttin' together yer own authentic powder and primin' horns or any readin' on how to do such? Second, anybody got any good advice on cleanin' a mtn. rifle real good...or better'n that...just what not to do when cleanin' it? 'Preciate all you fellers helpin' this greenhorn out! - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:32:58 -0700 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes (long) Dear "California Larry", We agree on everything except the access to the forts. There are numerous documented situations where both individual trappers and entire brigades went to forts to resupply between rendezvous, because for one reason or another they had become separated from their plunder. Pendleton - -----Original Message----- From: Larry Huber To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Sunday, September 24, 2000 6:07 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes (long) Dear "Texas Larry", As has been mentioned in other posts, the finger woven sash was a product of Metis and Indian women. The various colors and patterns were regional or family in design but became a "standard" look by the time Ashley headed West. At forts and posts, particularly the Hudson Bay variety, no doubt sheep and wool was available. And probably Indian and Metis women who would undertake the making of a sash. But the Free Trapper or "classic" Mountain Man was not a post-sitter. His supplies regularly came from the rendezvous arrangement...or did I miss the difference between the Western Americans and the Long Hunters of old? The point I was making was that if the rendezvous lists omit leather specifically cut for belt blanks but do include various buckles of different sizes, there is a readily available source (in the Mountains)of leather to attach that buckle to. And if Miller sketched even French hunters using belts with buckles but did not sketch the more picturesque voyager sash, it seems the leather belt NOT the woven sash was the preferred method of attaching stuff to your body. As far as the usability of the sash versus the belt, what Western Mountain Man out there uses the sash over the belt? Let's have a show of hands. I wear a sash...BUT I wear a tool belt with my knife, document pouch and strike a light bag attached to it over the sash. The sash is "yust for pretty". And sashes made out of fiber other than the traditional wool? What the hell for? I have a problem picturing a period Mountain Man sitting around the old camp fire during the winter months (when he had time) finger weaving out of hemp or yucca fiber a belt to replace the sturdy leather one he already had. The Mountain Man had availability to many goods at posts and forts but when he was on his own, when he had to survive, the practical took precedence over the pretty. What I find most interesting about the Miller documentation is the lack of ornamentation on their dress. This was Rendezvous, for Pete's sake!, and where is all the dress-up? Where are all the Rendezvous Bulls and Peacocks that are so readily seen at today's re-enactments? Where are the fancy "Wild West Show" performers that even Remington drew? They are strangely absent in the Miller paintings. When Bodmer or Catlin chose a subject, they chose an Indian for detail and fancy dress. The American trapper was just a working stiff and his gear reflected it, even at Rendezvous. I find beauty in the practical "sameness" of dress that is the unifying feature of Millers white trappers. Those are my thoughts, The California Larry - ----- Original Message ----- From: larry pendleton To: Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 9:16 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes (long) > Excellent points Brother Huber, but would spun wool not have been available > at the various forts ? They raised a variety livestock, but I can't > remember if they raised sheep. Would the trappers who ventured over into > your part of the world have had access to spun wool products ? I don't mean > to be going to extremes just to justify something, but it doesn't seem to be > much of a stretch. What are your thoughts ? > Pendleton > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Huber > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Date: Saturday, September 23, 2000 11:53 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes (long) > > > Interesting topic! Did American Trappers of white English/Celtic stock use > sashes and garters? Probably not as a rule. If we accept that woven > cloth sashes/garters were used in the East in place of tanned belt leather > because they were cheaper and more easily attained, this does not mean that > this practice carried over into the Rocky Mountains. First of all, sashes > were made from readily attainable wool fiber in the East, but this material > would be non-existent in the mountains. Second, if the rendezvous lists do > not mention belt leather, where does it mention woven sashes or wool thread > to make same? I submit that brain tanned leather was the most easily > attainable "fabric" in the Rockies. It replaced the cloth garments that > rotted in the elements. I think it's safe to assume this practice extended > to the replacement of cloth sashes. The rendezvous lists support this. > Manufactured leather products like shoes and horse tack made it to the > Rockies because these items were somewhat difficult to make. A leather belt > is the simplest thing to make. All you need is a sharp knife, awl, needle > and thread...and, of course, a buckle. And buckles were available from the > traders that came to rendezvous. They didn't pack in what didn't sell. > Aside from horse tack, I'll bet those buckles went on leather belts. > Miller's paintings show "belts" with knives tucked inside them. And the > famous sketch of Stuart's French hunter, Antoine Clement, clearly shows he > preferred a leather belt with buckle over a woven sash to hold his > percussion pistol. > > Larry Huber > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Poorboy > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 10:35 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes (long) > > > > Klahowya My Friends, > > > > Having read the recent posts concerning sashes and garters, I will cast my > > two cents before the swine. > > During both the Eastern Longhunter/ F&I war periods and the Rocky Mountain > > Rendezvous period, finished strap/belt/shoe leather was a highly valued > not > > easily obtained commodity. I believe research shows that woven straps and > > belts were more often used and documented during the EL/F&I periods. This > I > > believe was due to the availability of raw materials to be woven, and that > > good leather would not have been used when an equally viable substitute > was > > available. Woven straps were the most common amongst the early American > > frontier settlers, the French, the Spanish, and the Indian. > > In reviewing trade lists of the Rocky Mountain Rendezvous period ( On line > > here) I find no listings for belts or belt leather. I did find notations > > for shoes, boots, various horse tack, knee straps (does not indicate > leather > > or other), and some entries for assorted buckles. > > It is often argued on this list that these first hand journals, trade > lists, > > and accounts are gospel, and that the art of the period is good general > > reference, but subject to artistic license. Considering the known > > information prior to the RMR period, (the prominence of woven straps over > > leather during the EL/F&I period). Adding in the known prominence of > woven > > straps among the French, Spanish, and Indian. The general lack of > > documented belts and belt leather during the rendezvous period. The > studies > > that have argued that a very large percentage of the people involved in > the > > RMR period were of mixed blood. And my opinion that shoes, horse tack, > and > > harness were far more important uses for finished belt weight leather, > > especially when a viable woven alternative was available. I therefore > > assert that woven belts were the more common for the fur trapper of the > > American RMR period. Sashes were probably less common, but still present. > > One could further look at the fact that most knife sheaths were rawhide, > not > > finished leather, and designed to be thrust into the belt, not hung from > it. > > And the list of arguments could go on.... > > > > I leave this as fodder before the storm..... > sayings anyway...VBG> Again this is only my humble opinion, and I am > always > > open to being proven wrong.....OK so I don't always take it so well, but > you > > can still lead this old hoss to water and teach him a new trick or two. > > Have at it boys...YMOS > > PoorBoy > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:56:54 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm Hey, Hiking on Through: You might want to try the MLML list. It deals in those subjects with a lot of activity. This list sometimes plumb goes flat line. Like now. The forte of this list is the American Mountain Man. Particularly the mounted bunch that Rendezvous from 1825-1840 or there about. Big doings at Fort Union Trading Post seem to have drawn active members away from the list. Try to get on both lists for more information assists on your basic questions. Walt Orginal Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana - -----Original Message----- From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of HikingOnThru@cs.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 7:38 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm Ho' Mtn.Camp, Since I am new to the hills and am just gettin' the green wored off I got a few questions to be askin'. Fust, any one of you coons got any know how 'bout puttin' together yer own authentic powder and primin' horns or any readin' on how to do such? Second, anybody got any good advice on cleanin' a mtn. rifle real good...or better'n that...just what not to do when cleanin' it? 'Preciate all you fellers helpin' this greenhorn out! - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:20:44 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm > Fust, any one of you coons got any know how 'bout puttin' together yer own > authentic powder and primin' horns or any readin' on how to do such? Got some good reading for you. Book of Buckskinning has a nice article or two on building authenticly constructed horns of all styles. Not sure which volume 1 through 8 but a green horn needs all 8 anyway. > > Second, anybody got any good advice on cleanin' a mtn. rifle real good...or > better'n that...just what not to do when cleanin' it? Cold or hot water pumped out the touch hole with the gun leaning against something so it is upside down, butt down on the ground, trigger up. Frizzen closed. Use tow (flax fiber) or cotton patch on a jag. Pour water into bore adn push down with patch or tow on jag or worm. Pump water out the touch hole until the wiper isn't getting lots of black on it any more and then dry the bore and lightly oil or grease with whatever natural lube you like. I kinda favor sweet oil (olive oil) and bear grease but any natural oil or grease will work fine just not too heavy. Take the lock off and make sure the area around the touch hole is clean, dry and lightly oiled with the rest of the barrel. Same for the lock and etc. Replace, check flint and put her in your bed roll for the morning. Don't like to use artificial lubes and soaps because I believe they foul the bore and the powder and remove the "seasoning" that may build up in a gun that uses naturally greased/oiled patches. Good shooting pilgrim, I remain....l.. YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:24:09 -0700 From: Randal J Bublitz Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm Greenhorn, Hi, I'd suggest checking out the set of books put out by Muzzle Blast magazine.... Book of Buckskinning I - IX, or so now. I believe there is an article , or two, in there on making your own horns. As to care for your smokepole; I believe that if you stick to animal/vegetable greases for patching, etc... you will have good luck. Stay away from petroleum products. I use vegetable fat for lubing, etc... and clean with hot water-with maybe a hint - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:41:43 -0700 From: Randal J Bublitz Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm my program took off with an incoming message---cut me off short on last message...---just a hint of soap for stubborn , dirty guns. Looks like Roger agrees with me...keep it natural, and you'll cure your barrel like a skillet. hardtack - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:52:42 -0600 From: Joe Brandl Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ibid? References - --============_-1242178531==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" It means I bid $170......................what else! joe Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-455-2440 New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!! - --============_-1242178531==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" ArialIt means I bid $170......................what else! joe Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-455-2440 New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!! - --============_-1242178531==_ma============-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:04:26 -0500 From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm The series of Books of Buckskinning is indeed a good place to begin. = However, they are produced by the publisher of Muzzleloader Magazine, = not Muzzle Blasts Magazine. Lanney Ratcliff - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Randal J Bublitz" To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:24 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the = longarm > Greenhorn, Hi, I'd suggest checking out the set of books put out = by > Muzzle Blast magazine.... Book of Buckskinning I - IX, or so now. I > believe there is an article , or two, in there on making your own = horns.=20 > As to care for your smokepole; I believe that if you stick to > animal/vegetable greases for patching, etc... you will have good luck. = > Stay away from petroleum products. I use vegetable fat for lubing, > etc... and clean with hot water-with maybe a hint=20 >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:14:28 -0600 From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes Hi again, folks! I should warn you guys that my old computer died, so I'm not always going to be able to respond as promptly as I'd like. This discussion about sashes is interesting. First, I've got an article about sashes on my web site; it has some historical information, but is mostly a "how-to" on fingerweaving. It's at www.telusplanet.net/public/gottfred/sash.html. Sashes show up regularly on lists of trade goods from my period (Canada, 1774-1821). They are usually described as "worsted belts"--has anyone seen that on a list of trade goods from the Mountain Man era? They can also be described as "worsted sashes" or "wool ceintures"--ceinture is French for belt. I haven't found any references to Native or Metis women making them out here in the Northwest *in my period*, but that might have happened later on, I don't know. The name "Assumption/Assomption sash" comes from the Assomption area, near Montreal, where most of the sashes were made at first (c. 1799, when they begin showing up in my trade good lists). They were sometimes called "Achigan sashes" because they were also made in Achigan, near Montreal. As for garters, I'm sure their main use was to hold up leggins; there are yards and yards of "gartering" and "ferreting" (a kind of gartering) on trade goods lists. I haven't, however, yet found a reference to anyone actually wearing garters. I'm sure it's just a matter of time, though. Somebody said that they felt sashes were "just for show". Try this: fold your sash in half lengthwise, then wrap it around you with the folded part on the bottom. You now have a shallow pocket that runs all around your waist, perfect for holding your tinder box, car keys, etc. BTW, I've never found documentation for voyageurs wearing loom-woven sashes; they seem to have been introduced from England c. 1890, in a much different form than the inkle loom sashes some folks sell. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:24:34 -0700 From: "Larry Huber" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes Angela, When I toured Fort William a few years back, the docents said that most of the "Indians" that occupied the area around the fort were Metis by 1820. I have also heard that the voyagers that plied the waters and made the Assumption sashes were by in large Metis as well. I was under the impression that the finger weaving of sashes was mostly a female occupation. Any insight into this? I don't think there is any argument about the use of sashes among the Canadian trade. I think the discussion is the use of them south of the border. I'd like to see trade lists for them in the kinds of numbers you've suggested before feeling comfortable about their common usage by the common American trapper. Is there any record of them at all? What about the stock of supplies at forts or posts? Do they show up there as has been suggested? Larry Huber - ----- Original Message ----- From: Angela Gottfred To: Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 6:14 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes > Hi again, folks! I should warn you guys that my old computer died, so I'm > not always going to be able to respond as promptly as I'd like. > > This discussion about sashes is interesting. First, I've got an article > about sashes on my web site; it has some historical information, but is > mostly a "how-to" on fingerweaving. It's at > www.telusplanet.net/public/gottfred/sash.html. > > Sashes show up regularly on lists of trade goods from my period (Canada, > 1774-1821). They are usually described as "worsted belts"--has anyone seen > that on a list of trade goods from the Mountain Man era? They can also be > described as "worsted sashes" or "wool ceintures"--ceinture is French for > belt. I haven't found any references to Native or Metis women making them > out here in the Northwest *in my period*, but that might have happened > later on, I don't know. The name "Assumption/Assomption sash" comes from > the Assomption area, near Montreal, where most of the sashes were made at > first (c. 1799, when they begin showing up in my trade good lists). They > were sometimes called "Achigan sashes" because they were also made in > Achigan, near Montreal. > As for garters, I'm sure their main use was to hold up leggins; there are > yards and yards of "gartering" and "ferreting" (a kind of gartering) on > trade goods lists. I haven't, however, yet found a reference to anyone > actually wearing garters. I'm sure it's just a matter of time, though. > > Somebody said that they felt sashes were "just for show". Try this: fold > your sash in half lengthwise, then wrap it around you with the folded part > on the bottom. You now have a shallow pocket that runs all around your > waist, perfect for holding your tinder box, car keys, etc. > > BTW, I've never found documentation for voyageurs wearing loom-woven > sashes; they seem to have been introduced from England c. 1890, in a much > different form than the inkle loom sashes some folks sell. > > Your humble & obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:17:10 -0500 From: Jim Lindberg Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes It's my view the the sashes were worn by the voyageurs, the waist sash worn much like a weight lifting belt to help prevent hernias, the legging sashes were to keep the knees from buckling under 2 or 3 90 pound packs carried on portages. I always heard the three top killers of voyageurs was drowning, hernias and emphasema (sp). Jim - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:19:54 -0500 From: Jim Lindberg Subject: MtMan-List: GUN REFRESHER COURSE I figured some out there would appreciate these. a.. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject. b.. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone. c.. Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface. d.. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control. e.. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords? f.. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words. g.. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms. h.. If you don't know your rights you don't have any. i.. Those who trade liberty for security have neither. j.. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights Reserved. k.. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand? l.. The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others. m.. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday. n.. Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians. o.. Know guns, know peace and safety. No guns, no peace nor safety. p.. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive. q.. 911 - government sponsored Dial a Prayer. r.. Assault is a behavior, not a device. s.. Criminals love gun control - it makes their jobs safer. t.. If Guns cause Crime, then Matches cause Arson. u.. Only a government that is afraid of it's citizens try to control them. v.. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for. w.. Enforce the "gun control laws" in place, don't make more. x.. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves. y.. The American Revolution would never have happened with Gun Control. z. "...a government by the people, for the people..." - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:25:57 -0700 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes Thanks Angela ! Great info 1 Pendleton - -----Original Message----- From: Angela Gottfred To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 6:18 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes Hi again, folks! I should warn you guys that my old computer died, so I'm not always going to be able to respond as promptly as I'd like. This discussion about sashes is interesting. First, I've got an article about sashes on my web site; it has some historical information, but is mostly a "how-to" on fingerweaving. It's at www.telusplanet.net/public/gottfred/sash.html. Sashes show up regularly on lists of trade goods from my period (Canada, 1774-1821). They are usually described as "worsted belts"--has anyone seen that on a list of trade goods from the Mountain Man era? They can also be described as "worsted sashes" or "wool ceintures"--ceinture is French for belt. I haven't found any references to Native or Metis women making them out here in the Northwest *in my period*, but that might have happened later on, I don't know. The name "Assumption/Assomption sash" comes from the Assomption area, near Montreal, where most of the sashes were made at first (c. 1799, when they begin showing up in my trade good lists). They were sometimes called "Achigan sashes" because they were also made in Achigan, near Montreal. As for garters, I'm sure their main use was to hold up leggins; there are yards and yards of "gartering" and "ferreting" (a kind of gartering) on trade goods lists. I haven't, however, yet found a reference to anyone actually wearing garters. I'm sure it's just a matter of time, though. Somebody said that they felt sashes were "just for show". Try this: fold your sash in half lengthwise, then wrap it around you with the folded part on the bottom. You now have a shallow pocket that runs all around your waist, perfect for holding your tinder box, car keys, etc. BTW, I've never found documentation for voyageurs wearing loom-woven sashes; they seem to have been introduced from England c. 1890, in a much different form than the inkle loom sashes some folks sell. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:39:21 -0500 From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rifle made of money A model 92 made in 1884 would be very rare. Mostly because model 92s came out in 1892.... northwoods - ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry sherman" To: Sent: September 24, 2000 1:35 AM Subject: MtMan-List: rifle made of money > I know this is a black powder only page, but I have to write this anyway. I > recieved an e-mail from a guy who wanted to know how much his winchester > model 92, that was made in 1884 was worth. I did the research and replied > with the answear $600-$7000. These are the prices I found, I bet that fellow > is very happy to own that gun. The moral of the story, if you don't know > something about the gun you own ask somebody who does, you might end up > being a happy fellow yourself. > > Larry J Sherman > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:55:11 -0500 From: Todd Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the longarm Book 2 has a length article on making horns, and is worth a read. The = whole series is worth looking into. You can get the whole series from = Scurlock publishing, I believe their website is www.muzzmag.com. Todd > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Ratcliff > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 8:04 AM > To: History List > Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning the > longarm >=20 >=20 > The series of Books of Buckskinning is indeed a good place to=20 > begin. However, they are produced by the publisher of=20 > Muzzleloader Magazine, not Muzzle Blasts Magazine. > Lanney Ratcliff >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Randal J Bublitz" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:24 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder horns, priming horns & cleaning=20 > the longarm >=20 >=20 > > Greenhorn, Hi, I'd suggest checking out the set of books put out = by > > Muzzle Blast magazine.... Book of Buckskinning I - IX, or so now. = I > > believe there is an article , or two, in there on making your=20 > own horns.=20 > > As to care for your smokepole; I believe that if you stick to > > animal/vegetable greases for patching, etc... you will have good = luck.=20 > > Stay away from petroleum products. I use vegetable fat for lubing, > > etc... and clean with hot water-with maybe a hint=20 > >=20 > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #633 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.